Terra Firma, Planning and discussion

[Spreewerke]

You're perfectly fine.

Also, TF's first RP now has a wiki article

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Operation_Mountain_Harvest

Wait, Juan Died?

Looks like several died.

[Transnapastain]

You're perfectly fine.

Also, TF's first RP now has a wiki article

http://iiwiki.com/wiki/Operation_Mountain_Harvest

Wait, Juan Died?

No. I re-read the RP and I can't remember Juan's surname but I know I didn't include him among the dead.

Amazingly, there's more than one dude named Juan in a Latin nation.

[Sevvania]

Amazingly, there's more than one dude named Juan in a Latin nation.

So what you're saying....

...is that there's more than juan.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Amazingly, there's more than one dude named Juan in a Latin nation.

So what you're saying....

...is that there's more than juan.

YEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHH!

[San-Silvacian]

Trans, remember that discussion we had on the JAS 39?

Whatever third-party idea front I come up with would purchase 2 or 3 JAS 39s, then they'd come to the Philippines and be reverse-engineered into something Filipino.

[Transnapastain]

Trans, remember that discussion we had on the JAS 39?

Whatever third-party idea front I come up with would purchase 2 or 3 JAS 39s, then they'd come to the Philippines and be reverse-engineered into something Filipino.

Gives me something to bitch about. Do it!

[Puzikas]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

[Glaswegistan]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

Emmerians, obviously.

[Kalumba II]

Preliminary new Kalumban history; I'm going to do the Tanganyika/Zanzibar doo-hickey and be two colonial states come together after 'independence'. Current plan is to have the port of Monomotapa colonised by Portugeezers in the 16th/17th century and the only expand a little inland due to the hostile environment.

The surrounding area is then colonised by French Huguenots from the late 18th century and post independence we join together for cultural reasons and shit. Any problems?

[San-Silvacian]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

I'm planning to take over some disputed islands in the near future, so I will be watching this.

[Puzikas]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

I'm planning to take over some disputed islands in the near future, so I will be watching this.

Its basically RL Chinas military with some twists.


They have some srs business Artillery though.

[San-Silvacian]

I'm planning to take over some disputed islands in the near future, so I will be watching this.

Its basically RL Chinas military with some twists.


They have some srs business Artillery though.

Atlay islands or smth like that is far enough away from artillery thou

[Kastingrad]

Hey, I am not sure who this would be up to, but what would be an acceptable amount of land for me to take from Lolzieristan?

[Kalumba II]

Right I have come up with the best solution I can to the problem with sanctions and Africa. As I have repeatedly said it makes no sense for the Vrijstaat to be sanction free, or have nations ignoring sanctions blatantly. Thus this is what I have come up with.

Sanctions go in place in the 1950s, and intensify in the 60s and 70s. However at this time the SOUP states veer left politically and thus the UR creates something like this, and anyone else who for some reason likes the Vrijstaat joins, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Club and thus smuggles some arms and money into the Vrijstaat, just enough to keep them going. This and the extra oil reserves allow the Vrijstaat to survive to the present day. This and some occassional sanctions busting to keep crucial systems running.

Does this suit everyone?

[Alimantuan]

I feel that would make the region more unstable. Either way, I don't see anything wrong with that, so long as we can get a census as to who is involved in this, what it's called, etc.

[The Kievan People]

Emmeria wasn't even desegregated in the 1950's. Sanctions in this era would make no sense, IRL they didn't get off the ground until the mid-1980's. And western government's were far from united on the issue. Note that Reagan tried to veto the sanctions passed by Congress and the Thatcher government refused to participate in them. Other important economic partners like Japan only passed sanctions following the American lead.

Western government's response to apartheid was very belated (the divestment movement had been going strong for over a decade by the time most governments moved on the issue) and there many important western leaders who opposed sanctions right up until the end of Apartheid. There is nothing unrealistic about a western country refusing to participate in them (ref: The United Kingdom).

[Kalumba II]

I don't know how an organisation like that could make the region any more unstable than your very existance is doing.

As for sanctions, they started in the 50's and 60's and only began to bite in the mid 70s. The west was far from united, but sanctions always remained. No nation traded weapons with South Africa to any major extent, thus the South African arms industry. If Alimantuan is going to be using RL SA kit then snactions have to have happened surely. This and the fact a large number of consumers and retailers refused to buy South African, and the only reason SA ever got any respite was when they sold out Rhodesia. Britain only refused to partake in mandatory sanctions due to the need for naval bases on the African coast during the Cold War, when this end that reason goes, as it does as well when they have bases available in SOUP states. And while Britain always avoided voting for sanctions, most British companies ceased purchasing anything from South Africa, thus the growth of the Spainish orange trade and other changes.

If we are remaining a hard realism region then we can't have nations walking round going apartheid and racism is fine and we are going to trade with this government. Unless the Nazis won the war or slavery never happened or somehow people never developed a social conscience. I'm fine with some ignorance of sanctions, especially in the 1980s and other points when anti-communism is high, but since the disolution of the Soviet Union and the general liberalisation of society attitudes have to have hardened against an unrepentant racist state.

[Austrasien]

Now we are getting somewhere. I could see Austrasia's position against OV hardening post-Cold War... but not for free.

What has SOUP done for us lately? Basically.

What would an acceptable post-Apartheid OV look like to Austraisa? Well...
1. No armed intervention. Especially by SOUP.
2. No changes to the borders.
4. No reprisals against the Boers or their leaders. This is a red-line condition that would trigger Austrasien military intervention.
5. No KC involvement in the new state.
6. No arbitrary redistribution of property or assets.

Let's call them the six no's. If you feel SOUP can accept these no's, then we can talk about taking steps to encourage regime change (read: comprehensive sanctions).

[Transnapastain]

I smell a pretty important news post coming on from the three of you!

[Fortunagen]

I smell a pretty important news post coming on from the three of you!

*sniff-sniff*

Nothing like the smell of region-building in the morning!

[Kastingrad]

Hey, is anyone interested in playing Lolzieristan in an RP about the war between me and him? The RP would be mostly from my point of view, but it would be interesting to get some posts from the other side.

[Puzikas]

5. No KC involvement in the new state.

Dp you mean no military involvment? Or no involvment at all?

Because it would be unwise for OV is aleinate over 1/5th of the worlds population...

Hey, is anyone interested in playing Lolzieristan in an RP about the war between me and him? The RP would be mostly from my point of view, but it would be interesting to get some posts from the other side.

Basically its going to have to be Me and Vir as well due to our status as the premeir of the KC/ANTO respectivly.

I suppose other nations could get worried about the instability of the region as well.

It would be nice to have us all change more through IC changes.




Other news: Out IIWiki page is now up to 73 subarticles

40 of them are weapons and at least 8 others are military related.

Id like to see more...non military information. I get it, were mostly military buffs (freaks) here, but we have to have more..interests? It doesnt matter what on, but I invite you to write on the history of that or whatever in your nation. Do you like flowers? Write about flowers in your nation. Do you like trains? Talk about the rail system. Do you like the history of non-mononer construction of polymers?...I guess yoi can write about that?

Dont forget to add [[Category: Terra Firma]] at the bottom!

[Tuzbekistan]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

OH GOD I'M GONNA BE MASSACRED.

RUN FOR THE HILLS.

[Puzikas]

Working on notChinas armed Forces tonight.


I might be done even, so then you'll all know what your facing.

OH GOD I'M GONNA BE MASSACRED.

RUN FOR THE HILLS.

And now I feel like a hypocrite because I have to finish this still.

[Tuzbekistan]

OH GOD I'M GONNA BE MASSACRED.

RUN FOR THE HILLS.

And now I feel like a hypocrite because I have to finish this still.

I still have to do much of mine. I'll probably take up the call to do non-military stuff when I figure out what do write about.