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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:23 pm
by Chemaki
There are a lot of places in the Middle East and Central-ish Asia you can be slotted in, and I'd love a neighbour, but if you want a British claim, that's up to you. c:

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:43 pm
by Nova Gaul
To go along with Chemaki Kyr I love love love the claim...

...but there are those of us who exist outside of Europe in AMW.

Be nice to have some company :?:

But it's a great claim, and I'd support it anywhere you choose to plonk it down!

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:26 pm
by Amerique
Reading the application, it almost seems like Kyr could work in Egypt or India best. If you wanted to get really far-flung, the southern tip of India would also give you Hindustan Aeronautics and some nearby Celtic population. Kyr in Britain is also interesting and there is the story of Pytheas of Massalia to diverge from so as to explain why Greeks under Alexander got there.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:34 pm
by Chrinthania
You know, Chemaki, something has been playing on my mind. The way you have it all set up, you'd be sitting completely on both sides of the Strait of Hormuz. Not sure if that sits to well with me.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:13 pm
by Kyr Shorn
After a lot of careful thinking and chat with other players, I'd like to switch my claim from Great Britain, to the available space in Egypt.

I think the Greco-Buddhist state would work better in the land of the Phararohs.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:58 pm
by Nova Gaul
I must say Kyr I like the new location much better. Personally I’d love to see something to do with Pharaohs and the like—I originally wrote in for my earlier model of Emesan a sizable segment of Egyptian polytheism.

At any rate I very much like the idea, and it will place you nation at the crossroads of the world—and next door to Bantu (excuse me, Garricone) to boot!

Good to see our little RP-family, dysfunctional as it may be, is all getting back together again!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 pm
by Kyr Shorn
Thanks for the support NG!

Now for everyones viewing pleasure here's a new rough draft history!


Here's a new sort of outline for my Buddhist Greco-Egyptian Kingdom, the name to be determined though I'm leaning towards the Roman name for Egypt (I'll explain it during the rough history).

The history of Aegyptus goes back countless thousands of years, but the current Greco-Egyptian culture finds root in the conquest of Egypt by Alexander the Great in 332 BC. Among his many deeds on the shores of the Nile river was the establishment of the city of Alexandria, the future capital of the future governments.

After Alexander's death, one of his officers, Ptolemy was granted ruleship of the Kingdom and was proclaimed Pharaoh (or 'King').

In the reign of Ptolemy II Philadelphus, missionaries from the eastern most reaches of the Hellenistic world arrived in saffron robes, speaking of the Middle Path to Enlightenment. They were newly converted Greek Buddhist Monks, and with Ptolemy II Philadelphus's blessing, they established the first Sangha in Alexandria.

In less than a hundred years, Buddhism had taken firm root in Egypt, and the conversion of Ptolemy III was seen as the faith's greatest triumph.

Images of the Buddha were made for the first time, blending with depictions of the gods Ra and Apollo respectively.

A unique form of Buddhism emerged in Ptolemaic Egypt, seeped in rituals, philosophical debates, and the powers of various Gods to be used to help one who walked the path of Enlightenment, Greco-Buddhism.

However the rise of Rome and a line of weak rulers saw Ptolemaic Egypt fall and be relegated to an Imperial Province, named in Latin as 'Aegyptus'.

Rome would rule over Egypt for three hundred years, largely leaving the Greco-Egyptian culture and faiths alone in favor of using the nation as a breadbasket.

Until the splitting of the Roman Empire into Western and Eastern halfs, Aegyptus then fell under the authority of Constantinople in the east.

However the chaos in the West distracted the Eastern Roman Empire enough that an upstart general seized control of Aegyptus and proclamed himself 'Ceasarion II'.

Seeing a rising rival to the Imperial Throne, both Roman empires launched a punitive mission and in a short campaign retook Alexandria and publicly executed 'Ceasarion II', however seeing that they would be unable to hold Aegyptus for very long, the Eastern Emperor selected an ally named Menander as a Client-King and granted the region nominal independence.

In less than fifty years, Aegyptus was able to sever all ties with the Roman empires and emerged as a completely independent state, defeating an Eastern invasion force in a naval battle off the coast of Crete.

<insert more history here: Including possible invasions of Celts, Areopagiticans, Jews, or whatever, a Celtic dynasty rules, a would-be Christian King gets deposed, another dynasty goes Jewish (sort of), a period of puppet rule at the hand of the Supreme Patriarch of the Buddhist Sanghas>

<In more modern History, Napoleon can invade if needed, I throw in some local stuff and the rise of the current dynasty, not sure how the Great War affects Aegyptus, but in recent history the last King Ramesses XXIX recently died and the new King Darius X now reigns>

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:56 pm
by The Amyclae
Kyr Shorn wrote:After a lot of careful thinking and chat with other players, I'd like to switch my claim from Great Britain, to the available space in Egypt.

I think the Greco-Buddhist state would work better in the land of the Phararohs.

You have a great neighbor. ;)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:47 am
by Chrinthania
So, I decided that I needed a change. This nation just wasn't working for me and I think I can make it work by changing the location and the government and society. So, I wish to drop my claim on French Polynesia (known as the Paradise Islands) and submit a claim for Bali.

People's Republic of Bali

Population: 4,220,000 (2012 Estimate)
Capital: Despasar
Area: 5,780.06 km2
Government: Single-party state
Head of State/Government: The Great Leader Yandi Hadiman
Official Language: Balinese
Time Zone: UTC +8

Bali, officially the People's Republic of Bali, is an island nation in Southeast Asia located a few degrees south of the Equator in the Southern Hemisphere. It is comprised of the large island, from which the national name is derived, and a few smaller, nearby islands.

A Brief History Snip-it

The first traces of human civilization arise in Bali around 2000 BCE when Austronesian Peoples arrived from other portions of Southeast Asia. In ancient Bali, several Hindu sects existed and the local culture was highly influence by the Hindu religion along with other cultural exchanges from Southeast Asia Contact between the Empire of Emesa and the Kingdom of Bali began early in the 13th Century CE, lending some European influence to the nation. The first European contact with Bali is believed to have occurred in the late 16th Century when a Roman ship crash landed on the Bukit Peninsula. While the crew were left in the service of the native Bali kingdom which existed at the time, the Romans themselves never knew the fate of their ship and assumed it had gone down in the Indian Ocean.

In the late 19th century, the political situation in Bali destabilized after a large and power cyclone ravaged the island, leaving the Royal Government in a state of utter disorder. Several factions vied for power, with the Royal Family of Bali regaining control by the early 20th Century. However, that control would finally break in 1954 when Ade Agusalim overthrew the monarchy in the Glorious April Revolution (April 7, 1954-April 13, 1954). The Glorious April Revolution fell short of its goal of economic stability and, in 1955, the economy faltered, causing widespread inflation and massive devaluation of the local currency.

With unemployment rampant, the utter uselessness of the currency, and the complete lack of basic services, a young, charismatic leader named Ridwan Hadiman and his National Worker's Party came to power through a series of party-organized efforts to help reduce the crime rate threw their own private police force, an economic model blending environmentalism and national pride and semi-privatization of business, and sheer propaganda enforcing the ideal “Balinese” citizen. Ridwan, who became the self-proclaimed Great Leader of Bali, officially was elected Chairman of the National Worker's Party in 1958, and became the nation's de-facto leader.

In 1959, the Great Leader and the Party officially outlawed all other political parties, consolidated control over the limited national resources, and instituted a series of economic reforms in his Five-Year Plan entitled, “The Glorious Balinese People's Path to Prosperity.” In his plan, Hadiman explained that the Balinese people were a proud people who were, “The chosen of the Almighty, bestowed with the great honor of living in eternal paradise,” and were, “duty-bound to support those who the Almighty placed as their leader.” Regardless of his propaganda, he produced real results which stabilized the Balinese economy, rebuilt the roadways, preserved the natural environment, established the Balinese Youth Services (a mandatory national service for all citizens 15-21), increased educational standards, and created the idealized Balinese stereotype. He focused particular attention on health, nutrition, and physical fitness, and competitiveness in the younger populations.

Hadiman would remain in power until his death in 1999, when his fourth-oldest son, Yandi Hadiman, was elected Chairman of the National Worker's Party and became the de-facto Great Leader at the age of 18. The younger Hadiman continued his father's work and, in 2004, expanded the party platform to include racial purity, something which he felt became detrimental to his father's vision of the idealized Balinese citizen. In a speech in 2006, the Great Leader unveiled his classless society in which all men and women would become equal socially and economically.


The Balinese Government is controlled by the National Worker's Party's Central Planning Committee. The head of the Central Planning Committee is the Chairman of the National Worker's Party, Yandi Hadiman. Unlike many other single-party states, the different departments within the Balinese government do not function as a cohesive unit, but operate with a degree of autonomy. Each department attempts to gain more power for itself and more favor with the Great Leader. The government uses a mixed economy of free-market capitalism combined with central planning practices. The Great Leader's word is law above all other laws.

State Ideology & Society

Balinese Socialism borrows elements of Fascism in its beliefs and procedures. However, the National Worker's Party does not ever state that it is Fascist. It's central tenants are militarism, nationalism, anti-communism, paramilitary forces, and the focus on a healthy and educated youth. The State advocated a middle-ground approach between Communism and Capitalism which could be considered corporatism.

State ideals on race do not lend themselves to the belief that one race is superior to another, but that mixing the races together is against the natural order. The State can only survive if all citizens are of pure blood The belief is that in mixing the races together, all the weaknesses inherent in each are brought to the forefront while what makes each race strong is suppressed. In order for society to function properly, each race within the State must play to its own strengths and work with the other races for the common good of the State.

Homosexuality is not considered detrimental to the state. It is considered a natural population control and, as such, homosexuality is not illegal.

Loyalty to the Party is paramount. All citizens are party members and voting in party elections is compulsory. Failure to vote in party elections can result in a 2-year hard-labor prison sentence. Opposition to the party is considered treason and is punishable by death.

Isolationism is detrimental to the economic stability of the State and as such, the People's Republic of Bali freely opens its doors to tourists from around the world. Foreign investment in Balinese corporations is highly regulated. No foreign investor is allowed more than 12.5% of control in any Balinese private corporation. Corporations held in trust by the State are forbidden to entertain offers or otherwise allow investment from foreigners.

Universalism is promoted by the State. It believes there is no one way to eternal paradise and allows all religions to operate within its borders. However, in order to be allowed to operate within the State, all religious institutions are required to pay tax on all real property owned and all income (donations/tithes). Failure to so do can result in the State confiscating all real property and investments of the offending church.

Physical fitness is essential to the well-being of the State. As such, tobacco products, and illicit drugs are illegal. Smuggling such paraphernalia is a High Crime against the State and is subject to corporal punishment followed by incarceration. In 2009, a Hibernordian national was convicted of smuggling 30 pounds of cocaine into Bali and was sentenced to 25 years hard labor in a State Prison. On the day of his conviction, he was also beaten with a wooden stick of 3-inches in thickness 500 times. Food stuffs imported into the People's Republic are subject to intensive inspection. All foodstuffs must not contain preservatives or additives of any kind. Fresh fruit and vegetables are considered central to the diet of the citizen. Each citizen is required to participate in at least 60 minutes of exercise per day through the use of publicly-owned fitness centers. Exercise can range anywhere from simple walking or jogging to swimming and body-building activities.

Sexual intercourse is paramount to the continuation of the State. Citizens have a duty to the State to produce children. Those incapable of doing so, however, are not considered second-class citizens but are offered the ability to assist in child rearing through the National Health Service's Child Welfare Services.


The People's Military is made up of the National Army, National Navy, and National Police Force. The current active forces total around 100,000, but all citizens between the ages of 17 and 49 are considered to be reservists and are given basic military training during their years in the Balinese Youth Program.


The main driving force in the Balinese economy is tourism. The location of Bali around 8 degrees South of the Equator gives the island nation a humid tropical climate the year round with little variation in temperature. As such, the Balinese Ministry of Tourism and Commerce continually offers advertisements the world round showing happy families and person enjoying the local beaches and sampling the local culture. Known as the “Come for the Sun, stay for the Fun” campaign, it has become the most successful advertising campaign in national history. However, while tourism is the largest economic sector as a percentage of GDP, it is one of the smallest in terms of work force.

The largest sector of the economy in terms of work force participation is agriculture and farming. Most notably, rice cultivation is the largest agricultural crop in the nation. Crops grown in smaller amounts include fruits, vegetables, coffee, and other cash and subsistence crops. Fishing also provides a large amount of employment for the citizen.

Bali is world-famous for its artisans who sell handcrafts throughout the island at small stands and shops. Notably, single villages will produce a single item, such as wind chimes or wooden furniture.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:50 pm
by Nova Gaul
Excellent Chrin, very much like your new nation, and it will be great to have another neighbor in the area. And it certainly is a unique spin on Bali.

And to the community - unless there are any objections to my adding Andaman & Nicobar + Hainan to my Emesa claim, I am going to 'factbook' them in this week, as the Zephyrs and Colchis respectively. Which will round ou my claim nicely I think.

Interesting to know Chrin what sort of interactions Emesa and Bali had in the past. I am sure the Emesans would have eagerly hired some as mercenaries for their ancient wars against the Drapoel.

I'm Baaaaaack!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:19 pm
by Quinntonia
I'm not terribly concerned about size and placement thus far, but just wanted to get some feedback on the idea of re-imagining/re-booting my Lutheran Christian Theocracy turned Libertarian Utopia.

Basically, I want to RP a nation going through a part of a transition from a fairly democratic Lutheran theocracy to a more libertarian leaning Constitutional Democracy. I am not sure as of yet at what point this transition has begun (5-10-20 years?) but libertarianism as a political force has really come into its own. That is, there are old guard neo-cons and liberals as well as those conservative religious factions that want to stop this kind of peaceful revolution, but that the reforms are clearly gaining juice.
I like the idea that my nation would have had some kind of Imperialist holdings and have a populous that is struggling with some Imperial guilt, though if those holdings still exist at all, they would be much reduced and place a moral problem squarely on the minds and consciences of the people.

I would want a very prosperous, first world type economy, but one that grapples with holdover debt from statist overspending and Imperialist excursions of yore and wants to shed itself of same but isn’t sure how to do that immediately.

The military would be nominally powerful, but have seen a decline in spending, attention, and numbers as the libertarian reforms have both turned attention to domestic matters and placed a cooling effect on interventionism.

I would like the population to be large, but I don’t have to be crazy big, and I would very much like to be bordering some fairly active neighbours with whom to interact.

So, is there any space in this family for this particular Prodigal Son?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:37 pm
by Nova Gaul
Happy to chime in. I think that’s a good start/premise Quinn. I think that also, in many respects, your nation is somewhat similar to Amerique—both being Protestant democracies that is. Probably less in common with Walmington, which although nominally Protestant (more secular and a monarchy to boot). Therefore I’d suggest you think settling your nation in a part of ‘open’ North America, perhaps the Deep South sans Florida?

I don’t know where/how imperial guilt might fit into the scheme, I guess you could always have the default as Africa, and perhaps the United Kongo might be kind enough to lend a bit of shared history.

But for my part I would openeth my arms wide to the return of a not quite prodigal son (how much fun have you been having while away? I wonder). But I think that if you can find a place to put down a claim, at least for my part, and expound on your claim, I’d be delighted to see an awesome RPer return.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:42 pm
by Chrinthania
Amen? A great way to end a prayer, which is what I think this application amounts to (no offense).

HI, Quinntonia, I only know of you, primarily, through discussions about the progress of AMW since I arrived in 2009. So, as far as to everything that transpired before my arrival, I can't really speak to that. What I can say is that the application is more ambiguous than anything else I've ever seen, and that includes my own initial application for AMW. I'd rather see something more specific and organized than just a hey-I-want-a-big-rich-nation-with-good-neighbors-and-an-old-empire-to-boot kind of claim. It's difficult to lend approval or lend disapproval in this particular case. But, if my gist of your application is correct, then, I'm rather reserved in lending my own approval. I'd think that it could be interesting to have you back in AMW, but, not if we're going to bend the rules that we're holding all other applicants to. In a general sense, AMW is give and take. Take something really nice, give up something else. So, if you went for big and rich, I'd like to see something not so powerful.

And that's about all I can say with the application standing as it is. Without specifics, I cannot lend my own personally approval to the idea.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:12 am
by Quinntonia
That is no problem; I purposely made my beginning of this application quite vague just to get the ball rolling and gain some feedback as to what/where some of these things might fit into the overall story. I am not expecting approval based on this, just wanted to have a conversation about how best I can fit something like this into the overall structure of the community.

And frankly, I am open to suggestions and debate as to how or where this could fit.

Once all of that is worked out, I figure I will put in a more formal claim including all the details listed in the above description on this thread.

NG, why would you think that the Florida region would be a good fit?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:32 pm
by Amerique
I, of course, always welcome a new neighbor in North America. I imagine any combined history between us will be particularly amusing. While it is true that we are Protestant, we are Calvinist in particular, so our 19th century history would certainly be interesting. The nation primarily from the branch of Protestantism regarded as more "conservative" being a liberal democracy (we even let Catholics live here! *le shock*), bordering a nation primarily of the more "liberal" branch of Protestantism but functions as a theocracy.

Oh, since I've noticed your flag, there's also the possibility of making a dominion of the Walmingtonian Empire on the West Coast or elsewhere, but I don't know if the Godfreyite (Anglican) Church would have taken kindly to a Lutheran theocracy developing as the local representatives of His Majesty's government. :P

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:44 pm
by Chemaki
Quinntonia wrote:So, is there any space in this family for this particular Prodigal Son?


Iran may be a good idea for such a nation, if you're interested in a progressive, but decidedly Christian state. With the Federated Islamic States in Balochistan and the new Arab Christian Republic, the Middle East is a crossroads of traditional theocracies and very (relative to most states here) progressive secular republics. As far as I am aware, a claim in Iran and Kuwait would have around 60 million people and more than enough oil and gas to fuel a big economy. As for your Imperial history, it's perfectly possible that Balochistan and Western Afghanistan were once invaded by an Christian power from the West, and you could talk to Depkazia about having historical control over Azerbaijan. Unfortunately, I don't really know how a Lutherian state could survive, let alone prosper for so long in such a predominantly Catholic/Orthodox region, but I tried my best selling the claim to you.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:53 pm
by Cassanos
Quinn, I would definitely like to see you return to AMW. Our little group has changed quite a bit over the years, not only as far as the application process is concernec (as Chrin noted), but also with regards to its general makeup. Jean doesn't even play a Catholic nation anymore!
Unlike earlier iterations of AMW, we have no large powers with the calibre of the USQ, Tsarist Russia or (Indian?) Beddgelert anymore. Nations such as my own Nibelunc, West Rome or Byzantium are as big and rich as it gets today, which - in my eyes - makes for a more varied world. We also don't have clear-cut camps or power blocs like we used to. And, sadly, fewer big wars ;).
Anyway, like I said, I think there is always room in AMW for an old hand, and I would be happy to have you back. It would be interesting to see how a smaller version of the nation which started AMW and fought the original Hotan would work in the weird Modern World we have :).

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:13 pm
by Nova Gaul
As Amerique points out Quinn, I just felt a Protestant nation you’d like—and I suspect a variety of Caucasoid Protestants based on (roughly of course) a previous incarnation—would fit in very well with the deep south with Amerique and Walmington as neighbors. And when you put forward your prospective claim the Deep South sans Florida, that is…Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, and the Carolinas…just popped into my mind. It is a medium sized claim which would fit the parameters you seem to desire. Medium sized population with some resources, kind of the middle porridge. I guess that, with a desire for imperialistic history (meaning race-slavery in my mind) just sort of made the connection.

Cass admirably summarizes our current AMW. That said, I think there is always the possibility of conflict, as AMW seems to be stirring from a period of somnolence…all the birds are coming home to roost! I’ve been trying to prod Dra-pol into some sort of action, and I think there is the chance for great RP ahead. As always.

Chemaki puts forward a solid idea too, and of course your claim in your own to propose. It just seemed from what you’d written the South would fit.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:29 am
by Quinntonia
Hmm, stinking Calvinists and Walmingtonians? Oh my!

I also am intrigued by the Middle Eastern idea; could you give me some concept as to what my nieghbours are like? I remember a certain hippo-riding dictator when I left, but not sure if anyone else that exists there would have been here at that time.

I’m, of course, uninterested in re-playing an exact version of the old USQ, and when in my head I was thinking of a relatively large population, I just meant relative to other nations. Not terribly interested in dealing with the whole post-slavery nation thing, I was more inclined to some overseas holdings that I may or may not have any longer.

Who controls Britain?

PS-I often think fondly on Dra-pol and the USQ and the founding of AMW....then I remember we had a nation of Mormons fighting Vampires at one stage very early on. Indeed.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:51 pm
by Iansisle
Welcome back, Quinn!

Britain is, to the best of my knowledge, currently unclaimed. Your basic outline intrigues me and I think is workable within an AMW context. That having been said, I will warn you that a rich nation with >80m people makes me very nervous in general. That's not to say that I would NEVER consider such a claim as valid, just that I'd take some convincing. ;)

Anyway, sorry for the brief post, I'm at work.

Getting Close

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:50 pm
by Quinntonia
Hmmm, maybe Britain would be a decent place to start to flesh out my claim then. It does have a kind of built in Imperialist past, which I can tinker with to make things work. I wonder if taking a strip of continental possession to make up for the apparent loss of N. Ireland would be too much though? It would be nice to place myself on the border of two large continental powers for the foreign relations RP, and perhaps it could be the last holdover of the old Imperialist days (an AMW version of Calais?) but I am wary of pushing my population of too high with that addition.

The more I think about it, the more I want a smaller than usual AMW military. From glancing through the factbooks, it does seem that AMW continues to be highly militarized relative to RL, but perhaps my claim could have once been that militarized and has slowly been restricting spending as the libertarian reforms have gone through, leaving recruitment down, equipment starting to become out of date and seeing some level of disrepair, and general downsizing? It helps add the look and feel of a fading Imperialist power that way and also allows for an expression of some of libertarian thinking that is beginning to take hold.

Would there be logical nations who would have a history with mine that my official claim should take into account? Walmington for example? Any takers on being an ex-overseas holding? Perhaps Africans or Asians that might have some resentment, and maybe some Americans that were long ago colonies? Or vice-versa?



PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:42 pm
by The Amyclae
Hey Quinn, I don't know if you remember me but I remember you. In a good way, of course. I used to be named Moorington, played a bit as Austria while you were USQ. I don't know how active you were then, but in any case welcome to the community again.

Lost amongst the Puritan jeremiahs of the last 16th and early 17th centuries is the suspicion that the New World was not only an effort by God to reveal himself through history to God fearing Christians. We remember that obvious point. The New World, especially America, was to be "God's New Israel" and through the 'example' set by the new pioneers the world would be made whole. The Second Coming would occur and the "Whore of Babylon," which we sometimes call the Catholic Church, would be thrown into the pit of Hell. If Calvin was physiologically capable of smiling, he would at that sentence. What we do not remember, or never learned, was a suspicion in some Jewish circles (and quite a few more Puritan ones) that the Jewish people would be reconsecrated. The New World was not only a rejuvination of the terribly wayward Christian church but also the Jewish people.

The conversion, or renewal depending on whom you asked, of the ancient Abrahamic covenant would be renewed in much the same way as a new covenant was being forged with America. Peter Bulkely, in the Gospel-Covenant, "As their captivities in Babel resembled their captive condition now, so their deliverance out of Babel then, typed out their deliverance by the bloud of the Covenant." The Jews are lost, in the Babylon of Continental Europe, and they would be found again. As despicable as those wily, Savior-killing Jews are they too would benefit from the construction of the New Jerusalem. Eventually, it was thought, God would restore Israel because his anger towards them would abate, and he would reclaim them, in toto, as His people again. A sort of "unhappy horological interlude between two divine acts." There's a surprisingly prolific amount of information in Akiba, Rashi, Menasseh ben Israel and so on that echoes this Puritan train of thought. Some Jews, seizing upon the calculation of the Zohar, think Jewish 'Revelation,' decided that 1648 would be the date where the misery would be ameliorated.

As we're well aware, no 'rejuvenation' occurred (though, perhaps, in a limited sense the gradual acceptance of Jewish cultural into mainstream American culture on a level theretofore unprecedented constitutes something significant?). God never showed and the Puritans gradually dissolved to the Halfway Covenant and to, eventual, marginalization by an early republic much more focused on trade than their eternal souls. My claim, then, is this: what if the rejuvenation occurred? After talking it over with Amerique, we imagined a predominately Jewish nation with roots in the hardy French pioneers that eventually left the bounds of the east coast to settle somewhere deeper. A nation in the wilderness on an errand from the Unnamable. Messianic in disposition, millennial in deed. A nation that is like our Israel, but potentially more akin to the hopes of the more Orthodox members than reality. It would view itself as an important halfway house, if not ‘thee’ house, for the Jewish people and—in many ways—it is. Perhaps by seizing on some recent work on the Jewish diaspora by left-wing Jews and their skeptical view of a Jewish homeland this nation could appropriately fragment the calling power of each family’s Seder proclamation ‘Next year, Jerusalem!’ Jerusalem is in your heart, don’t you know, and your heart must reach the halfway house to the renewal of the covenant. In short, it must come to the New World!

This nation, I’m hoping, will be on the smaller scale though it will—like my other country—be exceptionally religious and not particularly homogenous in any other way. It is a true ‘international’ nation, like our RL Israel, but instead of focusing on a sort of cultural Jewishness it will have a degree of true religiosity. With so many quasi- to outright atheistic nations out there, the world’s faithful needs more than one place to congregate. If Hegel is right, and religion is merely an expression of man, then this expression will have a certain eccentricity to keep the world’s sane players hoping. Not, perhaps, as much as Areopagitican. For instance, this nation recognizes “the other nations,” the “gentiles,” the “uncircumcised” at international meet ups without too much burning. All joking aside, this nation would be indebted to the world status quo. Its national purity, as it were, owes itself to colonial expansion (even if it occurred several centuries ago).

Economically I imagined that the nation would be appropriately advanced, if a tad argumentative (too much Torah reading, too much chutzpah). I’m not sure if we’re all that concerned with the structure and intent of the world economy, yet assuming this nation does find a foothold somewhere in the New World (I’m rather fine with wherever, assuming it’s reasonably close to the religiously inclined Amerique or Walmy-topia) I was hoping that the focus would be on a service economy—with an eye towards financial services.

Everything else I have not really thought over too much. I’m just flying this up the flagpole just to see what you kind gentlemen (I think we’re fairly unisex in that regard? If not, gentleladies as well) think of it.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:28 pm
by Nova Gaul
I think you're going in a good direction Quinn. But why is everyone so obsessed with being in Europe *grumble* but I digress.

Such wit, Max, especially about that Calvin line. I make it a point never to argue with Calvinists, of course, as Wilde said arguments are to be avoided: they are always vulgar and often convincing! Anyway, well said.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:51 am
by Walmington on Sea
Hm, well, that certainly seems interesting, Aeromoormaxclae. Are you still thinking of making it a solid and specific claim?

Meanwhile, AMW, what does the community make of this?

I'm going to go ahead with an expansion of the Walmingtonian Empire.

I've settled on expanding the poorer, white-minority colonial holdings rather than the richer English territories. I'm also going to cut down the economy of Tobago ((Puerto Rico)) slightly, to be more in line with the likes of Jamaica IRL.

There'll still be fewer than fifty million English, vastly outnumbered by Americans, Romans, Valendians, Nibelung, Gandvians, and so on and so forth, but they'll command a vast pool of cheap labour, expendable ground-pounders, and natural resources, Godfrey ruling a population comprising a non-white majority whose constituents range from those engaged in pitifully slavish self deprecation, through those who aspire to nothing more than to Anglicise themselves, to those simmering with ever increasing resentment.

What I'm certain of is expanding Ceyloba to cover all of Sri Lanka, as it did pre-AMW. Frankly, I've been wondering where all the tea's been coming from ((the tea growing regions aren't really covered by the lesser territory)). Unlike pre-AMW Ceyloba, the Celts will remain. Ceyloban simple majority, substantial Eelam Gaul and Tamil minorities, small Arab and English minorities, various other tiny minorities. Probably the Viceroyalty, as it'll be again, is awkwardly bound to the Empire in part by the economic relationship. While the Walmingtonians pursue an Empire First policy, Ceyloban tea and rubber command artificially high prices on that partially closed market, and little other development is evident. If the island were to break away, it'd suddenly be like a Soviet satellite in the early '90s, geared to service a vanishing market and ill prepared to compete globally.

I think, based on a very rough working that may not be quite accurate, that would put the entire imperial population at about 107.3 million ((okay, a little over 108 million once the Bootnecks liberate the Spice Islands, of course! ;) )), over 60 million being in low or middle income territories and well under 50 million high income. Back to my original and vague, 'what do you make of this?' question... I feel like one more colonial possession is required to round things off, but haven't settled on what it should be.

I did mention the two southernmost states of India, but I think that represents more than is necessary, and I'm happy with Ceyloba/Sri Lanka as the Walmingtonian Raj equivalent. Isolated Kuwait? Not much population, but bountiful RP opportunities in the ME and the petrochemicals cover any remaining gap I may perceive in imperial power. The remainder of Sudan? Khartoum's in there, which is imperial fun on a bun for Defence Minister Jones, and maybe 14 million people, but I'd worry it'd make the remaining parts of Ethiopia and Eritrea less appealing to future claimants ((though in fact they still contain a hefty population)). Madagascar? Seems about the right size at some 22 million people, and it was also part of the old pre-AMW Walmingtonian Empire, as Vazimbaland, home of the Antananarivo Project conducted with Iansisle and Calarca. Or the somewhat similarly populated remainder of Borneo, neighbouring the Valendian possession that so far seems to have been a weirdly quiet and isolated spot, and just across from Emesa.

I think Madagascar and Borneo look like the most likely choices, though Kuwait has a lot of potential. The first two would land the imperial population up around 129 or 127 million, very roughly, with not far from two non-white subjects to every English person. The last, more like 110 million, but with Canadian plus Kuwaiti oil, leaving relatively few locations remaining for future petro-economies.

Does anyone have any thoughts either from the perspective of the community and future claims, or regarding potential interaction with/impact on their own nations?

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:04 am
by Chrinthania

Well, while your English may be lacking in population, your empire is quite large already. Certainly I don't see a problem with you expanding into the remainder of Sri Lanka. In fact, it makes more sense than most expansions I have ever seen. I'm just starting to get worried that, if the square area becomes too large, it may scare off other applicants. It's quite hard to say that I disagree with an expansion while I sit on a 104.5 million population. Of course, that population sits on just over 800,000 square kilometers of land. While I understand the break down of statistical information on the races within the Walmingtonian Empire, I'm just not convinced that an expansion gives you any more power.

That being said, I really don't want to lend an objection to you, of all people. It's just a feeling that it's already hard to get new members as it is and when current members expand, it closes off further open areas that new members might be willing to take in the future. Of course, if your expansion increases the output of AMW, it may actually lend itself to increasing membership, which is the main reason I don't want to say that I disagree. If it brings in more people because we become more active, then it is an attractive thing and one I don't want to be the old stick-in-the-mud member complaining about the size of your square area.

So, considering my feelings both ways on the subject, I suppose I'm a reluctant yes because the potential to drive up the output of AMW and potentially increase membership over all is a bigger plus than all the "imperial pink" that may be splattered across the globe. All I need to know is, beyond Ceyloba, what else are you bringing into the empire?

VERY LATE EDIT: Perhaps, I should admit that, of your proposed locations, I kind of like the idea of, should you expand, actually taking Madagascar and Borneo. Just my 2 cents.