A Modern World (AMW) Applications Center

[Beddgelert]

See, damn it, now I'm wondering (and I'm going to blame Mod for this one, putting stupid ideas in my head) whether I should go for a somewhat greater expansion and go back to having the Geletians as genuine great power (all be it not quite the superpower we were in AMW V1.0) by restoring Galatia.

If I claimed a chunk of Turkey from Thrace to historic Galatia (as far east as Yozgat in the extreme), attempting to do it in such a way as to claim more or less all of the ancient state and connect it to Geletia but without grabbing all of the western half of Turkey or looking completely ridiculous on the map I think I could do so with the addition of about 31.5 million people, for a total (with the proposed Greek expansion) of probably just under 130 million.

At first I dismissed the idea as being too much and as taking away a little romance in respect of Geletians' revanchist desire for a 'return to Galatia', but having slept on it I'm not too sure.

I'd probably have most of the Turkish portion as ethnically Gaulish- Cornitouti and other Geletians from the Nine Tribes in Turkish Thrace and Galatians of the Three Tribes (Trocmii, Tectosages, Tolistobogii) in Anatolia, but areas of the Anatolian coast (confusingly, 'Ionia', probably using the province of Izmir) would be Greek majority and formerly part of the independent Greek state. Meanwhile, the Three Tribes would be regarded as more Hellenised than their European cousins.

I think it leaves about 35 million people in the rest of Turkey (less any in the north-east that may be part of Gallaga... I'm not sure what's happening there).

I think either way, so far as history goes, the Saimonan War would end with Tsalland over-run and Greece being driven out of East Thrace except for Constantinople whose walls hold. Then the Great War would see Geletia over-running the rest of mainland European Greece, and in Option 2 Galatia over-running (Anatolian) Ionia and the two seizing the various Greek islands, and would end with Tsalland and Greece free but the latter only returning to its post Saimonan-War state (not regaining East Thrace, except for Constantinople).


Option 1: areas in bright red added to CSR (some islands in dark grey I was thinking of excluding, but TBH I'd probably take them too because it feels weird cutting them out of Greece and makes little difference to the population); pop. ca. 98 million


Option 2: Greek (and 'other') Republics in darkest hue; pop. ca. 129 million

Really not sure what to do. Halp!

[The Crooked Beat]

Given the present uncertainty over the Byzantium situation, I think either proposed expansion could be justified easily, and while it would be terrible to deter Byz from returning to AMW if he felt so inclined by dividing-up his former territories in such a fashion, it seems to me that he could be compensated from unoccupied portions of the wider Middle East, maybe including Egypt, which, if I am not mistaken, would more than make up for any population lost to a Celtic super-state. It seems probable that the loss of Constantinople to vile heathenism would make necessary a number of alterations to settled Church history, but any resulting awkwardness in that line does not strike me as a reason for dismissing the idea.

For obvious selfish strategic reasons, to start with, and also a desire to see the European balance of power evened-out somewhat, I'm definitely in favor of a larger and more powerful Geletia, and would have no problem with the Anatolia option if that proved most attractive. Clearly, with no Byzantium to push against, Celtic chauvinism is going to be robbed of its principal expression, but I'm sure we will be able to find workarounds that don't burden Ian with too many more large and warlike neighbors harboring designs on Shieldian territory!

And the problem of there being no Anatolian neighbor remains in either option, of course. Suppose the more extensive expansion would at least make the task of absorbing a Celtic march, either earlier or later, against whoever happened to be living deeper in Anatolia easier in historical terms.

[Chrinthanium]

As someone who often times holds back, then decides later to expand, I think you should go with the bigger option. Not just because AMW is averaging a bigger population per nation, but it seems to work your history out a bit better from what I read.

Regarding Constantinople and all that 'Christian' history, there's no reason that someone in future couldn't have a Constantinople-like city somewhere else. Certainly Constantinople's prosperity comes from its centering on major trade routes, but the 'Christian' history can be transferred to another city somewhere else if need be. No reason to cling so closely to real life. Seems that Kyle keeps the Italian Confederation very Catholic in nature (if not practice) and Rome could simply be the only Christian capital in AMW for now.

I would be remiss to say that the idea for having an NPC Ionia seems to be a moot point any more. Unless there are objections, maybe that should be folded into the CSR as well?

There is, at least for me, no Byzantine question. We have to assume that Byz is so busy IRL that he cannot keep up his claim. If he returns, he could very well shift farther into the Middle East if he so desired or try something new. I get that our history is important, but we have to remember that we can't hold spaces on the map indefinitely no matter how important people are to collective history. Even as our map is rather empty in large chunks, we have to adhere to some minimal requirement to maintain a claim. Thus far that requirement has been to keep your NS nation, if not your RPing, alive.

[Chemaki]

At the moment I'm going to throw up a claim for a Socialist Orthodox nation in the Holy Land and the Levant; less keen on taking swathes of Anatolia and standing in for a Byzantine state during the Great War, though however Byzantium is split I think it will cause a lot of rewriting (on the Byzantine decline, how it got absorbed into the CSR, what the religion is). My best idea so far was to have a Soviet-style revolution around the time of the Great War which carved up the Catholic, Aventine Byzantine Empire, replacing it with an Orthodox socialist state which split what remained of the Byzantines down the Bosphorous, with European Constantinople and Greece coming under Geletian protection, and Anatolia coming under control of this Orthodox successor state.

I have absolutely no concern if you wanted to claim Western Anatolia and style it as a modern Celtic Galatia, or even if you were to downgrade the Byzantine Empire to Greece and Constantinople (though it would be useful to flesh out history exactly as to when this happened). I'm looking for a more culturally and religiously homogenous state anyways, seperate from Byzantine history, and the need to write history for a sprawling Catholic Byzantine Empire alongside my own would just overcomplicate things.

Come onto the IRC sometime today, Beeg; I've almost finished writing my application but it has been leaning at the moment towards "fill-in for Byzantium", at least as far as Great War history is concerned (a position I'm happier not being in!). It would be nice to chit chat about the history of Anatolia and what exactly happened to the Byzantines, as well as what would happen during the Great War in the Middle East.

[Beddgelert]

Long rambling I'll-probably-go-with-Option-2 post...

Yes, at the moment, Chemaki, I'm thinking that Greece's early ancient history would run similar to reality, up until the Gaulish descent into the Balkans/Saimonas, at which point things begin to change as the Celts do somewhat better than IRL. As IRL three tribes cross into Anatolia and found Galatia, but those who remain in Europe become firmly established as nine tribes form an alliance under three great kings -The Geletian Triarchy, at one point spanning probably from Switzerland to the western Shield, and Cassanos to Greece... briefly one of history's greatest empires, needing to be mentioned along side the likes of Rome, the HRE, the Shield, the Depkazi hordes, and Britain etc, especially after we invade Italy and sack Rome (standing in their for the Goths).

However, with Greece split between Gaulish and Hellenic portions (the latter pretty much always remaining safe in the islands), Rome eventually conquers it and periodically drives the Celts back on the Danu(be). The Geletians always at least hold out in parts of the north and periodically counter-attack, while the Galatians also hold out in their mountainous heartland though they often lose control of direct Mediterranean coastal access, usually to the Romans. Geletia and Galatia operate as distinct nations, all be it periodically as allies.

In one of their up-swings, the Geletians over-run Italy, and look poised to secure lasting dominance in half of Europe only for the Slavic migrations to hit them by surprise. Tsalland is established on territory Geletia had recently recaptured from Rome, and the Triarchy stops supporting its forces occupying Italy. Geletian influence in wider Celtic lands in what's now Nibelunc evaporates, Germanic types even drive them out of their cradle in Switzerland, and I'm thinking that partially Romanised Greeks revolt and restore their independence first in the Saimonas against the Geletians and then in parts of Anatolia against the Galatians.

So we then have a Greater Greece in early modern history, not exactly a Byzantine Empire but maybe a Greek Empire never the less? (In the present, the territory it covered at its greatest extent would have given Greece a population more than double its IRL one.)

Wars go back and forth between the two great Celtic states and the Greeks (and Tsag), and the Greeks end up in control of most of Thrace, home to the Geletian Cornitouti tribe. This provokes the Saimonan War of 1915/16, when Geletia liberates the Cornitouti and over-runs Tsalland. In the Great War, the Geletians conquer the rest of mainland Greece, the Galatians annex Ionia (Izmir), and both capture various Greek islands. Geletia also over-runs Italy, though the Oakists fail to defeat them in North Africa, fail to carry the war to the Americas, fail to knock-out Britain, and fail to defeat Gandvik.

Post-war Tsalland, Italy, and Greece are liberated and the Geletian Principality is established. I'm less clear on what happens to Galatia, but depending where your nation goes you might be involved in setting terms for a separate Galatian armistice that probably restricts its military capabilities to some extent, assuming you'd be on the Aventine side as, on first impression, I imagine to be best.

The Principality falls to the May Revolution of 1982 and the new Federal Democratic Republic of Beddgelert supports rebels in Greece, which has become essentially Fascist as it battles Cornitouti insurgents lead by the Clan Igo. The junta fails to fully appreciate that the revolt is not just an ethnic or cultural nationalist thing, but Communist internationalist in character and the Galatians in particular are perfectly happy to arm Hellenic rebels as well as Celtic.

Seeing the resurgence of their Geletian cousins and the left-wing revolt of their Greek half-cousins, the Galatians swing to the left and start flouting treaty restrictions, re-arming, and belatedly industrialising their previously agrarian society.

Tsalland in particular is alarmed by the Celtic revival and tries to support the failing remains of the Greek junta, and becomes entangled in a string of deadly border 'incidents' with Beddgelert. The Short War sees to the fall of Tsalland, where Greeks and Slavs were already at one another's throats. Galatia and Y Berfeddwlad sign up to the proposed Commonwealth of Socialist Republics, and here we are.

Greece still has a low-key nationalist movement with the ultimate aim of Greek independence, but its right-wing policies discredit it in the eyes of those who lived through the unstable late years of the junta, and in Tsalland initial resistance to the Geletian invasion and the establishment of the new government was somewhat derailed by in-fighting between Greeks and Slavs, and now exists at a level about comparable with The Troubles in Northern Ireland rather than a full blown armies-in-the-field civil war.

Economic development is still be far strongest in the north of Geletia, especially in Durcodia (Austria & Hungary), but there's a trend for moderate net migration from the Saimonas to Galatia, which is a fair way behind Durcodia but experiencing more rapid development and growth.

As to the Tsalland-based Ionia, I'm not sure. Granted we aren't doing much with it, but it seems like there's still potential there for RP in the future.

On the other hand, the reason for its creation was to prevent all out war between the Geletians and Byzantines. I wonder if the Italians could stand in, there? If Italy was about to declare war on Beddgelert, the two state solution would still likely be pounced upon by Nibelunc and others.

If not, then I suppose I probably should just annex it. Stop the confusion over the two Ionias (plus Ionian Islands!).

[Great Italy]

I would be remiss to say that the idea for having an NPC Ionia seems to be a moot point any more. Unless there are objections, maybe that should be folded into the CSR as well?

As to the Tsalland-based Ionia, I'm not sure. Granted we aren't doing much with it, but it seems like there's still potential there for RP in the future.

On the other hand, the reason for its creation was to prevent all out war between the Geletians and Byzantines. I wonder if the Italians could stand in, there? If Italy was about to declare war on Beddgelert, the two state solution would still likely be pounced upon by Nibelunc and others.

If not, then I suppose I probably should just annex it. Stop the confusion over the two Ionias (plus Ionian Islands!).

To be quite frank, I do (OOCly, that is) fancy Ionia, it would make a good province called Dalmatia. (And traditional Venetian ports too.) However, the postwar Confederation is not that bellicose; even Pope-led Latium keeps being reined in by its civilian government. The Confederation will not attack unless it is attacked first. However, the Confederate (faux-Celt*) state of Venice will not be averse to dividing Tsalland with Geletia (something like IRL Maria Theresa's Austria semi-reluctantly partaking in the partitions of Poland), but with less Slav-persecution.

(AMW Venetia probably takes its name from the tribe of the Veneti, who used to occupy the eastern end of the Padanian plain. It is also a rival of Tsalland in the Adriatic. Of all the states of the Confederation, Venetia is the one that is most keen on accommodation with its eastern neighbour.)

[Beddgelert]

To be quite frank, I do (OOCly, that is) fancy Ionia, it would make a good province called Dalmatia. (And traditional Venetian ports too.) However, the postwar Confederation is not that bellicose; even Pope-led Latium keeps being reined in by its civilian government. The Confederation will not attack unless it is attacked first. However, the Confederate (faux-Celt*) state of Venice will not be averse to dividing Tsalland with Geletia (something like IRL Maria Theresa's Austria semi-reluctantly partaking in the partitions of Poland), but with less Slav-persecution.

(AMW Venetia probably takes its name from the tribe of the Veneti, who used to occupy the eastern end of the Padanian plain. It is also a rival of Tsalland in the Adriatic. Of all the states of the Confederation, Venetia is the one that is most keen on accommodation with its eastern neighbour.)

I have deliberately dropped the Venetii as one of my original Nine Tribes and replaced them with the Serdi in hopes this may happen

So, put your Italy just a few years back... reports are that Tsag border guards have killed several Geletians -civilians and opposing border guards- and though this is not entirely true* the Tsag Patriarch revels in it and mocks the Geletians who take this as governmental support for the murder of several citizens and launch a night-time invasion in response. Tsalland does an absolutely awful job of defending itself and within 24 hours the Celts are half way to the Adriatic coast, the Tsag army has lost most of its manoeuvre capability, and in Tsalland the long marginalised Greek minority is in open revolt against the Slavic establishment it sees as responsible for the whole débâcle. The Geletians (then in the form of the Federal Democratic Republic of Beddgelert, not yet the current Communist super-state) are about to over-run the remains of Tsalland (what we now know as Ionia) and they and the Greek rebels are killing Slavs left and right, though the Celts and Greeks are not exactly co-ordinating their actions as allies of any sort.

What does Italy do, if anything?



*Actually the Geletians set-up several of the border incidents (even sending special-forces across the frontier via tunnels to retrieve the bodies of infiltrators shot on the other side so as to make it look like they died on our side) but at the time they were all reported -not just in Beddgelert but by global media- as Tsag actions and to this day I'm not sure that the international community has proven Geletian conspiracy so the de jure line is essentially that Tsalland started it. Unless I missed something, anyone?

[Great Italy]

I have deliberately dropped the Venetii as one of my original Nine Tribes and replaced them with the Serdi in hopes this may happen

And it happened without us colluding!

So, put your Italy just a few years back... reports are that Tsag border guards have killed several Geletians -civilians and opposing border guards- and though this is not entirely true* the Tsag Patriarch revels in it and mocks the Geletians who take this as governmental support for the murder of several citizens and launch a night-time invasion in response. Tsalland does an absolutely awful job of defending itself and within 24 hours the Celts are half way to the Adriatic coast, the Tsag army has lost most of its manoeuvre capability, and in Tsalland the long marginalised Greek minority is in open revolt against the Slavic establishment it sees as responsible for the whole débâcle. The Geletians (then in the form of the Federal Democratic Republic of Beddgelert, not yet the current Communist super-state) are about to over-run the remains of Tsalland (what we now know as Ionia) and they and the Greek rebels are killing Slavs left and right, though the Celts and Greeks are not exactly co-ordinating their actions as allies of any sort.

What does Italy do, if anything?

Venice (not the entire Confederation) will do a Putin and "invite itself" to Dalmatia upon to "protect" the Venetians in there and "restore peace", probably with support of the Greeks (who might desire to be under a friendlier Christian power) and possible tacit agreement with Geletia (giving possible concessions in the process, such as investments, trade links, guarantee of border security against excursions by the soon-to-be-divided Tsag nation (no bibles thrown across the border), and the like - which can be negotiated). Venice will not "invite itself" without Geletia's tacit agreement; and then this "peacekeeping" operation will turn into an annexation operation legitimized by a plebiscite.

If this happened pre-Great War, there would be little issue within the Confederation, as the states have wider leeway in conducting foreign affairs - hence the Pope's (Latium's) wide latitude in forming the Aventine alliance. Post-Great War, individual states' conduct of foreign affairs had been curtailed. Latium and Abruzzo (home to a Tsag minority) will probably protest, but the Confederation will probably not dare do anything against its largest and most important member. It will probably accept Venice's fait accompli and move on to further prevent more events/adventures like this from happening.

[Beddgelert]

The Short War only happened... well, about 5-6 years ago real time and I've tended to assume about the same in game time to be honest. Could push it back a bit but to the 1990s at the earliest.

Tsalland was annexed in 1916, liberated in 1945 and then largely over-run and partitioned in recent years.

[Great Italy]

Venice would probably be participating in the definitive partition of Tsalland; I can easily fit it into my still semi-formed history. It might not have participated in the 1916 annexation, but attitudes on Tsalland in Venetia shifted post-Great War (blaming it for things such as Italian involvement in the war (even though the Pope is also very much responsible) and other historical grievances) enough for it to intervene. This is despite the rest of the Confederation disagreeing with the Venetian stance. The question is, would Geletia consent to and sanction Venetian "intervention"/"assistance"?

[Beddgelert]

I've shifted my response over to the Big Discussion Thread

[The United Gulf States]

As I've said to several of you already I don't think continuing with TUGS is going to work for me. Still an interesting concept to me, but I just can't seem to come up with any characters I'm actually happy with over there.

I'm going to have to try reviving Lusaka, as it's the only thing that's ever worked for more than a few months. Lusaka or nothing, I'm afraid!

WoS is apparently 'open to' the idea of me taking over the Tribal States to restore Lusaka, and after briefly speaking with Pemba I think we may be on to something.

I was thinking of taking the unclaimed bits of northern Tanzania too, along with Rwanda and Burundi. WoS would retain the Spice Islands, and we'd keep and adapt some of the established history.

The region would be colonised -probably by Britain, since Byzantium is gone-, then gain independence under a respected tribal leader named Lusaka. Popular with his own tribe and several minor ones and even grudgingly respected by the British, Lusaka never the less falls foul of a plot lead by a member of the armed forces hailing from one of the other larger tribes. Robert Bantu does away with the fledgling parliament, purges the military's senior ranks of people from tribes other than his own, and launches a surprise invasion of the British Spice Islands, over-running the woefully inadequate garrison and quickly digging in.

Bantu's brutality at home fuels a rebel movement, lead by Derek Igomo -probably from the same tribe as Lusaka-, which is supported by leftists in Geletia etc.

Britain regroups and returns, recapturing the Spice Islands and smashing many of Bantu's best units in the process. This, of course, leads to a hastening of the rebel advance and an increase of support from the communists. Alarmed by the prospect of a militant socialist power looming over the now extremely sensitive Spice Islands the British back remaining members of the old white elite -which Bantu had been at once using and abusing as a national bogeyman and as a corrupt source of much-needed 'connections' to funding and technology- in the race to fill the power vacuum as Bantu flees to the Silver Coast.

Today the situation is in the balance, with a minority government propped up by the cash of rich white businessmen and landowners and a considerable portion of the British foreign aid budget, with just a few small tribes supporting the status quo either because they think it's the only possible source of stability or simply because 'better the devil you know'/'anyone-but-Bantu'/'ohno! Communists!', most supporting Igomo's 'Lusakans', and Bantu's tribe still supporting him in his exile. There's massive internal displacement of people, particularly in Bantu's tribe moving wholesale across the border to the Silver Coast.

The Lusakans are in de facto control of large swathes of countryside, though the government periodically sends 'patrols' into these regions in an attempt to flush-out guerrillas. Hopefully the likes of the CSR are now flooding the country with military liaisons and maybe volunteer fighters, and demobilised British soldiers who can't quite hack civvie street working as military contractors and security for the government and its supporters.

The country would have reasonably well developed infrastructure in just a couple of cities in the interior and on the coast, though the latter in particular was damaged by British bombardment and the former is ever at risk in the on-going rebellion/civil-war. A large portion of the population would exist at or barely above subsistence levels. I think there'd be about 67 million people all told. GDP per capita will be certainly below £5k and maybe below 2k.

Finally, apologies to my North American friends. I hope my giving up on TUGS doesn't ruin too much, and you're welcome to come and play in East Africa if the change is approved.

[Chrinthanium]

Seems everything is in order here. The fact that WoS and Pemba are for it, then I cannot be against it. You have my best wishes that it brings you the happiness you desire in AMW!

[Sabara]

Apologies for my absence on IRC, been a bit busy with family and travel.

[The Crooked Beat]

While I'm definitely disappointed that the Gulf States didn't end up working out, certainly a return to what could probably be described as Lusaka's natural environment can't be an unfavorable development, and I think we can fully expect new-old Lusaka to generate some extremely interesting RP. So I'm absolutely in favor, for what it's worth.

If an alternative colonial power is called-for I would not be averse to having Gandvik play that role, though finding Finnish place-names for East African localities would be a nightmare that I wouldn't wish on anyone. In more recent times, the place is probably distant enough from Gandvik itself for Riga not to really feel any particular sense of loyalty to either side, so Gandvian arms could potentially find their way to both government and rebels, the Gandvian secret services more or less switching their support to whichever group seems most likely to gain power at a particular moment, or whenever a profit stands to be made.

There may be a fair amount of Gandvians out there ready to take up arms for hire as well, especially since fighting with the Shield has died down, if that strikes anyone as a point worthy of further examination. Anahuac too may be a productive source of mercenaries, though I will really have to do a lot more thinking about what's going on there.

[Lusaka]

Perhaps both, TCB? An early madcap Gandvian colonial scheme that lacks the funds, experience, and political support to fully exploit its potential or to deflect later British interest? I want to get some of the obviously British-influenced proper nouns in there. Unless Godfreyite missionaries descend upon the Gandvian colony like a plague of dour, judgemental locusts at some point.

Actually, that's giving me ideas!

What if Lusaka was the local leader the departing colonial power chose/was-forced to negotiate with, and was of one religion (Anglican or RC), while Bantu was of the other faith and perhaps found favour with the other European power?

Many permeations present themselves.

1) Lusaka is Anglican, the British are the colonial power, the British are happy to negotiate with him so as to do-down the Catholic Bantu who is supported by former-power Gandvik. Bantu then over-throws Lusaka with Gandvian support.

2) Lusaka is Anglican, the Gandvians are the colonial power, the Gandvians are forced to negotiate with him as he is on the verge of a military victory against them perhaps owing in part to British support. Bantu then over-throws Lusaka with Gandvian support.

3) Lusaka is Catholic, the British are the colonial power, the British are forced to negotiate...

Well I'm sure you see where I'm going with all of that.

As this is the applications thread I should also work out what the state will be called to start with. Of course we all know that Igomo's rebels will call it the United African Republic of Lusaka, and the presumption is that they will eventually win, but I've no idea how long it'll take in game or in reality. It'd gain independence under one name, maybe adopt another under Bantu, and definitely adopt another after the minority government retakes power.

[The Crooked Beat]

Hmm, there certainly are a lot of possibilities, and after a few days now thinking about it, here and there, I'm not quite sure which course we should take!

Obviously first priority is to get Lusaka up and running, so to speak, so history can for sure take a back seat to that, and while it's very easy for me to get drawn into well-nigh endless conversations on the imaginary past, I don't want to hang up progress on that account. Basically whatever happens to be easiest and most convenient to reconcile where Lusaka as a place is concerned works perfectly for me.

I'd imagine that Gandvik must have had its place-in-the-sun moment towards the end of the 19th century, as a consequence of which an East African protectorate may have been attractive. This might have also coincided with the beginning of an Anglo-Gandvian naval rivalry, no doubt less intense than the Anglo-German rivalry in RL owing to Gandvik's less-impressive manufacturing capacities if nonetheless a prominent factor in strategic calculations, though that's probably best left to a separate discussion.

Anyhow, Gandvian colonialists would definitely have to contend with some very daunting obstacles, including limited funding and political apathy at home, and colonial administration in East Africa would most likely, I think, have been marked by efforts to co-opt preexisting structures for the purposes of government and taxation, and generally to extract wealth from the East African colony as cheaply as possible. Since I can't imagine European settlement would have been very significant, and colonial authorities probably happy enough to let just about any Europeans in who promised to exert a 'civilizing influence,' there may have been a lot of scope for missionary activity of all stripes. Gandvik, I've been thinking, is probably Lutheran, but maybe Bantu and his constituency could be followers of an even weirder Protestantism?

Perhaps a Gandvian colonial power convincingly established in its coastal trading posts and ports never succeeded in extending its reach far inland, or maybe never tried very seriously to govern the interior, resulting in a situation where Walmingtonian or at least Anglican cultural influences were able to achieve dominance even inside what was, on paper, Gandvian territory? Or maybe it would make more sense to have a Gandvian East Africa Company or something show up some time during the 1880s, fail to accomplish much beyond the establishment of a coastal trading post and some bloody, none-too-successful expeditions inland, and give Riga an unwanted, unsought colony that it happily negotiates away to Walmington at its first opportunity?

After that, Gandvian support for Bantu may have been opportunistic in part, and in part driven by still-extant commercial or familial links with local settlers, or perhaps it could have been more a case of Bantu looking for external aid after making himself an enemy of Walmington.

For the sake of simplicity at least, I think we should probably shelve the idea of Gandvik acting as the area's chief colonial power, since it seems likely to invite an insurmountable degree of linguistic and religious awkwardness. Walmington does strike me as the most sensible colonizer, or at least the longest-established colonizer, for East Africa.

That could possibly still leave enough time for a small, though doubtless religiously fervent, community of Gandvian colonists to establish themselves, possibly a lot of them Catholics or some other form of dissenters from Gandvik's majority Lutheranism, who succeed in spreading their faith relatively widely and exert enough influence over the area's confessional situation to convert a significant portion of local society. Maybe there could also be a small core of hard-boiled Gandvian-origin planters hanging around, like Jean Schramme in the DRC, maintaining private armies and such, offering military support on and off to one side or the other, probably Bantu.

Well, I've managed to thoroughly confuse myself! I hope there's something of value in that jumble of thoughts and ideas. I suppose we ought to continue this in the discussion thread.

[Lusaka]

I did not realise that Gandvik is mostly Protestant! I'll work with the fringe groups, then...

Finalised(ish) application

I'd like to keep some religious divide between groups converted by British and Gandvian missionaries. The Lusakans will be predominantly Methodist, but I had a hard time thinking of anyone who actually has that big a problem with Methodists! So I propose to have two extremes, of a particularly liberal Methodism with or Amberlandic roots, widespread and increasingly tied to the Socialist-leaning United Lusakan People's Organisation, and a less popular but more privileged reactionary Fundamentalism from some radical Gandvian colonists.

There'll have been several kingdoms in what is now one nation when the first Gandvian colonists arrived in the late 1800s and muscled their way into influence in one of the coastal states, probably through coercion and bribery. Then they'll have used that state itself to conquer the next and spread further by supporting rival claimants and inciting revolts in other states rather than by marching an army of Gandvians through the region. Religious minorities struggling against prejudicial treatment back in Gandvik will then have made up a disproportionately high portion of the (modest) incoming settler population.

If it's possible for Ambeland -which I note seems to be a player in The Silver Coast's history- to have conducted independent imperial projects perhaps the small size of that state keeps it from dominating like Britain would have -both in terms of the contest with Gandvik and the control over East Africa- then when Gandvik briefly gets serious about mobilising against Amberlandic interference London finally hauls itself from the armchair and threatens to start caring if Amberland comes under attack.

Feeling hamstrung, Riga gives up on the project though a hardcore of established Gandvian plantation owners and businessmen remain and Britain now feels responsible for a territory that Amberland couldn't protect when it only ran part of it, never mind the whole thing, so fearing that another European power or even The Silver Coast may seek to increase its influence in the region the Crown Colony of British East Africa is created probably some time before the Great War.

During the war some resistance coalesces around a man named Lusaka, who is descended from one of the royal lines deposed by Gandvian interference in local politics some years earlier, and a small quantity of arms and perhaps expertise is smuggled by the Oakists through Valendian-controlled islands (who has Comoros now that Byz is gone? Well, there's always Mauritius) in hopes of destabilising the Colony and either drawing off British forces in Europe or forcing the Empire to concede a morale-denting defeat. It doesn't quite come off but post-war East Africa is deeply restless and on the brink of a full scale civil war for which weary Britain has little appetite. With the Oakists defeated Lusaka is more minded to negotiate than fight and the British are less hostile towards him with those dangerous backers out of the picture.

Fairly severe terms are never the less demanded by the far more powerful British. The white minority's rights must be protected in various ways -such as compensation, arbitrated by the British, for any confiscated property- and they must have a minimum level of representation in parliament. Lusaka even agrees to continue the region's recognition of the British Crown, and the Spice Islands will not be ceded by the Empire. To Lusaka this is an incomplete victory but preferable to civil war against a ruthless and formidable enemy likely to have substantial British support.

Unfortunately for Lusaka many ordinary people quickly forget how bad it might have been and men like Robert Bantu exploit the continued privilege of white landowners, British control of the islands, and the inter-communal rivalries both religious and ethnic in nature unnaturally intensified by prior Gandvian and British meddling.

An officer in the newly forming National Defence Force mutinies, recruiting many troops from his large tribe along with a few from others, particularly Evangelicals, and arrests Lusaka. Bantu dismisses Parliament and tears down the Commonwealth of East Africa, declaring himself Life President of the new Great Lakes Republic*. There is a brief power-struggle as those loyal to Lusaka try to affect a counter-coup and free the imprisoned Prime Minister, and Bantu begins a brutal purge of the armed forces and courts, strongly favouring members of his fellow Bantu tribes over the Nilotic tribes. Some whites flee, hastening the trend for net emigration begun in the lead-up to independence, but others arm themselves as chaos spreads and some appeal to various foreign powers for help.

While some in Britain and fewer in Gandvik argue for intervention there is little popular appetite in either nation, though Britain does begin to compile a list of sanctions to be used against Bantu should he emerge victorious. Despite being often accused of madness or brutal stupidity, Robert Bantu at this moment reaches out to Riga through well-connected ethnic Gandvians remaining in East Africa offering compromise. If Riga will assist Bantu in his consolidation of power Gandvian colonists with friends in high places -and their estates- will be protected by forces loyal to the self-proclaimed President and efforts will be made to focus any anti-colonial sentiment on the British.

A mix of financial and military aid and several substantial loans reinforce Bantu (along with a few Gandivan mercenaries and/or special ops?) and Lusaka dies in disputed circumstances, initial reports claiming he'd committed suicide when under house-arrest while later narratives -from the state- suggest he was killed by friendly-fire or died in a blaze resulting from a botched rescue/escape attempt or -from the Lusakans- that he was executed to prevent his escape.

Global news floods with images of miserable white faces as once wealthy Brits flee or are later driven off their farms and out of their mansions, largely over-looking the greater plight of the unfavoured tribes and the on-going luxury and influence enjoyed by those relatively few whites with ties to Riga.

Though firmly entrenched in power and now re-armed by Gandvik, Bantu's new Republic has suffered a significant 'brain drain', development in the highly-populated north-west has ground to a halt in the face of communal violence, the influential Imperial Federation has imposed sanctions and strong-armed weaker nations into swerving trade with the East African state, and debt-to-GDP ratios have sky-rocketed thanks to increased borrowing and weakened export numbers. It appears to the British only a matter of time before Bantu is smoked-out.

But, backed into a corner, he lashes out one last time with a surprise invasion of the British Spice Islands. With imperial prestige unable to bear such a humiliation the British launch cruise missile strikes against the Republic's modest naval and air forces and the Royal Marines storm the Spice Islands. Bantu's best units are broken and Col. Olongwe's Lusakan Revolutionary Alliance Corps -having received arms and training from the then Federal Democratic Republic of Beddgelert- is advancing out of the north-west against failing resistance.


*Couldn't bring myself to stick with Nilosahara as a name given how far we are from the Sahara, even if the source of the Nile isn't a million miles away, and though there will be a large Nilotic population I'm not sure why a man with a name like Bantu would name the country for one ethno-linguistic group then favour another to a genocidal degree.

From the Spice Islands the British support a move by remaining whites -Britons and Gandvians on the ground grudgingly united in fear of the Socialists even as London and Riga endure a period of frosty relations- and some few small clans considered friendly to fill a power vacuum created by Bantu's flight (or initially-supposed death). Dozens of mercenaries from Waynesia arrive along with funding from the infamous Sir Henry, and continued British missile and air-strikes hold-up the LARC's advance until key crossroads and cities can be captured by fighters loyal to a man named John Scott Foster, a mining magnate who had served as a junior officer under the Commonwealth.

Ethnic Bantus from tribes loyal to the man of the same name either flee with him to the Silver Coast, continue trying to fight both LRAC and white insurrectionists, or pick one of those sides. Those siding with Foster tend to do so out of pragmatism, and may have previously revelled in farm invasions against relatives of those who're now their officers... hardly a desirable state of affairs for any party, but not one either can reject with any expectation of survival in the country. Those siding with the LRAC fare a little better in terms of relations with their new comrades and leader (with plenty of exceptions, given differing experiences in prior inter-communal clashes) but have British bombs and white mercenaries and assassins to suffer instead. Both sides fear Fifth Columnists.

Today a minority government holds power, leaving Britain in an awkward situation. It does not wish to support such a state, but the alternative is a Communist take-over and -in any case- if it takes too hard a line questions will be raised over its own position in the Spice Islands, Ceyloba, and Waynesia etc.

The Federation of North Waynesia -named for the most important sponsor it had during its difficult birth- endures constant low-level warfare and a mixed economic outlook. It's under minority rule, with stop-start efforts to give native peoples more representation without the white minority surrendering 'the final say'. Its geo-political situation is tenuous, with a very grudging British supporter and uncertainty over Riga's current regard of the region, if indeed it maintains any interest at all.

An imperfect calculation arrived at by adding the CIA Factbook figures for Rwanda, Burundi, and Tanzania together then subtracting the latest figures I could find for the various islands under British control and the three regions of Tanzania controlled by The Silver Coast gives me a population of 68,916,547. Only a few percent will be white, and I'll break down Bantu, Nilotic, and other groups later.

[Chrinthanium]

Lusaka, I am for this.

[Pemba]

All in support for this - I'll adjust make a couple of minor adjustments to some of my characters / history as well.

The Sael are completely retconned and replaced by the Silver Coast People's Liberation Army (descended from and heavily influenced by the LRAC) and be in active conflict against the Silver Coast monarchy.

Nicholas Garricone, the smarmy and corrupt Vice President at Bantu's side would now be of British origin but spent his years collaborating with Gandvikans and Bantu against his own people. After his greed got the better of him he began accepting bribes from the British to help topple Bantu and clumsily attempts to install himself as the new head of state without a support base, but this failed and after a few revenge attacks from all three sides for his past crimes, he flees to the Silver Coast with a large fortune stashed away in Pemba.

Lusaka - would the Great Lakes Republic still have invaded the Silver Coast after overrunning the Spice Islands?

[Lusaka]

Thanks, Chrin!

Pemba, I'll try to work something in. Could you give me a refresher on where it all fits in, what motivates it, and how its course runs, roughly?

I'm thinking that East Africa's independence comes anywhere between 1946 and 1960 (probably towards the later end of that scale, following a few years sort of gradual decolonisation) and Lusaka rules through the '60s and into the '70s. Bantu's coup is launched either in the late '70s or early '80s and the attack on the Spice Islands comes in 1987 if memory serves. Then there's some civil conflict from the late '80s to early '90s which Bantu survives in power, followed by relative stability for a few years but towards the millennium the economy's decline becomes entrenched and begins to accelerate. In the beginning of 2012 the rebels lead by Igomo and Olongwe re-intensify their campaign against Bantu having received arms and training from Beddgelert, and in 2013 the British reconquer the Spice Islands and Bantu is toppled, being replaced by the new British-backed apartheid state.

Where about do you want to put the Bantu-Silver Coast conflict in all that?

[Pemba]

In my initial timeline, Bantu invades immediately after capturing the Spice Islands in 1987 - the Silver Coast was on very good terms with Britain and agreed to a mutual defence alliance, relying on British 'fleet-in-being' instead of modernising their own armed forces. The Silver Coast armed forces are massively outnumbered and crushed (and with Bantu extracting heavy concessions from the Silver Coast - similar to the Treaty of Versailles), with Bantu occupying the three provinces in South Tanzania until 2013 when the British topple Bantu.

Sounds like it could all come together quite nicely?

[Walmington on Sea]

It may be a little harder to continue justifying Britain's non-intervention until sixteen years later if we had an agreement with the Silver Coast, but we can work that out. Perhaps Bantu saw Imperial forces mobilising in South Africa, motivating him to stop his advance and push through a peace deal with TSC, and Britain was able to keep the conflict at arm's length. Presumably Britain then spent the 1990s trying to re-organise and re-train TSC forces ((with dubious success if I'm not mistaken about the level of instability)) while turning from targeted sanctions against the Bantu government to a full blown embargo of the Great Lakes. After all, the Empire's a few centuries old, we can wait out this Bantu chap!

[The Crooked Beat]

That all looks excellent so far, Lusaka, from my perspective anyway. The Gandvian angle seems perfect, and you should of course feel free to change that around as necessary. Mainly an excuse for some mercenary action, to be honest! Trying to channel Strathdonia, I suppose.

Anyhow, yeah, I'm excited to see how it plays out, and let us know if there's anything that can be done to help move things along, RP-wise!

On the limited subject of Gandvian involvement, I think that, after the colonial venture is abandoned, Riga might not take a very close interest in African affairs on an official level, though it may at least maintain consular offices nearby for the convenience of its perhaps still passport-holding expatriates and those private and semi-private individuals engaged in various business activities locally. Support for Bantu or whoever else might have been arms-length at best, motivated by a vague sense of reciprocity for Walmingtonian dealings with the GFR, and customarily liberality with arms exports would maybe not have equaled a true vote of confidence in the regime.

That said, I've been picturing the Gandvian external-intelligence agency, the STO, as harboring a bitter and at times bizarre rivalry with its better-funded, more influential, and vastly more competent cousin, the Sapo (Security Police), so the STO could almost be running an Iran-Contra sort of scam in East Africa to beef-up its slush fund and to lock in a source of funding that the Sapo can't interfere with. And not to mention, Gandvian agencies may not draw too fine of a distinction between intelligence work and organized crime at the best of times.

Also, I think I'll officially go ahead and drop Argentia. It doesn't really seem to be going anywhere, and the associated territories could doubtless be put to better use by someone else. I'm also not quite sure what to do about Anahuac, since, with the Gulf States now gone and NG having disappeared yet again, we seem to be missing one leg of the triangle-ish dispute that was formerly brewing there. I'm entirely open to keeping Anahuac around, if other players are still interested in that situation, but if not, it is holding down a fair amount of valuable real estate that, if it isn't being used, should perhaps at least be kept open on the off chance that someone shows up wanting a Mesoamerican nation.

Last on my agenda for now, I'm strongly tempted, with Kalvinka having disappeared, to re-annex Scandinavia. I've more or less reconciled myself with the idea of Gandvik having started out as a kind of overgrown Swedish empire, which subsequently battled for European and Uralic Russia with the Shield, Depkazi-Turkic powers, and I suppose the Koreans too for a few centuries before it managed to establish its current holdings. The end result could be an Austria-Hungary dynamic, a more-or-less unified elite culture patchily covering-over suppressed nationalist identities.

[Chemaki]

Right, so after a few weeks (months?) of procrastination, chit-chat and typing up reams and reams of sociological/cultural ramblings, it's high time that I actually put in a claim and a history lest you all forget about me!

I don't know exactly what rumours have been circling around and after toying with both the idea of a Middle Eastern and a Nile-based claim, I've decided to go with the former, primarily because I have got history written out for it that takes into account all the 'canon' of the region. I'd post the factbook in its entirity up here, but I would rather go through some preening first as it goes on a lot of tangents and at the moment, at 6500 words, is more a novella than a Nationstates application! The premise, as with my other two previous nations, is the idea of a nation (theoretically) unified under one religion; that such a nation would also encompass the Holy Land, a region of great diversity when it comes to faith, should create some interesting issues, especially when the nation in question isn't an Islamic Caliphate fill-in but something rather more unique altogether. Rumyak, a cultural composite of Celts, Slavs, Crusader descendents and countless local groups is bound together through its faith, a distant Christian heresy stemming from the ancient Assyrian Church, and its Socialist government, an equally unique and alien ideology where social progress is necessitated by a shared faith and a complex meritocracy.



I'll add the exact specifics of the claim soon, as I have to root about in my PC to find them and I'm really too tired at the moment to do so - I do recall the population being pretty much spot-on the 150 million mark, about the same size as the FIS was, and the oil reserves of Iraq, parts of Iran and not-Kuwait (oil being in the south of the country which I haven't claimed) would probably be around the same size as the FIS too.


History

The POD from the established canon is relatively gradual and early; as the Roman Empire declines and Christianity becomes the dominant faith within the Middle East, Armenia, the oldest Christian Kingdom (formed somewhere around the mid 200's) quickly fills up the power gap left behind, creating an empire which stretches across the Caucasaus and Mesopotamia, winning popular support from Christians in a pre-Constantine Eastern Roman Empire. By 400 AD, Byzantium's holdings are more compact, focused on Western Anatolia, whilst the Armenians perilously straddle the gap between the Romans and Persia [or equivalent once the region is claimed in future], styling themselves as the successor state of the former whilst maintaining good relations with the latter. Over the next century this has a profound effect on the local culture as various Zoroastrian and Eastern religious elements are introduced into the Assyrian Church, leading to the creation a new Christian demonination, the Cathars.

The Armenian Empire is branded by the various European Catholics and Greek Orthodox Christians as heretics, and cut off from the West, it slowly declines. Attempts to gain control of Anatolia become successively more desperate as the Byzantine Empire collapses under the weight of the Crusades and internal revolts, replaced by a Catholic Greece and a pagan, Celtic Galatia. Armenia stands alone as the 'true' successor of Rome and the 'Christian heartland', an image its rulers are keen to foster. With the Christian world focused on crusades against the waning Caliphate in the Levant, Armenia fades into obscurity and decline, before falling to the Slavic warlord Jevrem Zima in 1291. Displaced from their homeland a century and a half earlier by the Shieldian High King Damana, Zima and his Orthodox Cossacks resettled in the Caucasaus, founding the Rumyak Khanate (Rumyak being an exonym given by other Khans after Zima proclaimed himself 'King of the Romans').

Rumyak quickly reclaims many of the old Armenian territories; its less centralized form of governance and the conversion of these tribesmen to Catharism leads to a period of stability. The Armenian dialects mix with Slavic and develop into the modern-day Rumyak language, and the old notion of an Emperor protecting the Cathars resurfaces under the Zimayaid dynasty, with the Khans widely accepted amongst Christians as the only real alternative to Islamic subjugation. By 1400 the Khanate stretched from the borders of the myriad Crusader States to the Persian Gulf, having swept away the limited opposition of local Muslim tribes and Imamates which never managed to recover from the religious stife that stemmed from the Crusades. After drawing the ire of all of its large neighbours, including the Galatians and an upstart Temur, the Rumyak Khanate is pushed into the Levant, leading to a series of bloody conflicts with the Crusader states. With popular support from Cathars living in the Levant and European interest in mounting further Crusades waning, the Khanate conquers the region after a series of wars, leaving both sides battered. Old and heirless, Khan Syrmak signs the 'Great Compromise' with the remaining Crusaders, creating a state with the power vested in the Orders, fraternities of Knights and sections of the Cathar Church which already held considerable political and military influence. This beaureucracy would elect an Emperor from the lay folk; this man wielded limited political power but served as the cultural and religious focus of the nation as the defender of the faith. The Emperor was also vital in structuring the Orders and creating a cohesive army, as well as managing taxes on a national level (local taxes were managed by the Church or fiefdoms run by the Orders).

With this, defense of the faith became deeply ingrained in Cathar society; the Orders were expanded to include merchants, tradesmen and even labourers. These new 'lesser Orders' had a nominal say in governance but importantly acted as unions and businesses as those with similar skills collaborated together and had a shared loyalty. Whilst not classes per se, there was a definite prestige to be found in working for military or church Order; Deacons and Knights were regarded as local heroes. However, this did not mean that the masses were ignored; the Church, highly respected and viewed as incorruptible, rewarded those who worked on important local and national projects or showed acts of bravery or piety; the titles of the European nobility were reappropriated and awarded on the basis of merit instead. Serfdom, at least of Christians, was abolished, and a culture of willing devotion to the benevolant state, as opposed to oneself or one's lord, ensued.

Whilst the Cathar Church increasingly dominated Rumyak society, the wealthiest Orders, particularly those of the crusaders or merchants, turned to Catholicism as a way to gain access to Europe. An upper class of Catholics soon emerged, and through poor government policy and alienation of the masses, gained notoriety as heathen tyrants, the antithesis to the Emperor and Rumyak identity. With three-quarters of the population following the Cathar faith, revolts often broke out, and with the Cathar Church turning a blind eye to them the Catholic-dominated government was essentially hamstrung. The Order of the Templar and the Order of Mark of Apollonias (a large trading power in the Mediterranian) turned to Greece and Italy for help in staging a coup to create a Catholic state, envisioned as the successor to the old Byzantine Empire. With many groups across Europe holding a financial interest in Levantine trade, a large army of mercenaries was fielded to fight for the Catholic fiefdoms and tear the Rumyak Empire apart. After a long civil war stretching across the late 18th century, the Emperor was finally supplanted and a new puppet government was formed from Catholic governors. The East Romanian Republic was proclaimed in 1792, but de facto influence only really extended as far as the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea. Various conflicts and uprisings would see the Catholic upper classes shrink and the nation decline into little more than a colonial holdout of the Greeks, an nation in name only.

Whilst the old conflict between church and aristocracy continued to simmer into the 20th century, the advent of new political ideals which spread like wildfire through Mesopotamia created a new dynamism. The Cathar Church, governing on a local level as a group of fractured bishoprics and patriarchates, increasingly relied on local generals to defend them from the Romanian Catholics, and the underground Marxist ideology which spread from Europe found its home among the ranks of the military and the Cathar Church. Meanwhile, many Cathars, Catholics (now a small minority) and others in the Levant rallied under the banner of the Komatar, a nationalist party which sought to end Greek influence and restore Rumyak as a secular democracy. By the 1930s these two movements dominated national politics, the old aristocracy having lost credibility and most of its control after the disasterous Saimonan war which saw Romania lose large swathes of Anatolia. As the nation entered the Great War with the majority of its forces defected to various Socialist and Komatar generals, support for the Aventines was mostly nominal; the few small military excursions into Anatolia saw the Triarchy push back with disproportionate force, seizing the entire peninsula. The East Romanian Republic collapsed in 1943, and in its place stood the Komatar, controlling the Levant and the capital, Damascus, and the People's Liberation Front, which absorbed most of the broken military forces from the Anatolian Campaign. The PLF, well versed in guerilla warfare against the old Republic, pushed the Triarchy back, hurriedly signing a white peace in 1944 before turning on the Komatar. Rumyak, though restored in name, was torn between two factions, each operating as their own independent state; the PLF in Mesopotamia and Anatolia, and the Komatar in the Levant.

Contrary to what many Westerners thought, the end of the Great War would not spell a Komatar victory and a new age of secular democracy for Rumyak. Whilst the Komatar had considerable support and trade from many nations, the PLF had little aside from the hearts and minds of the Cathars, and a swathe of poorly-equipped, underfed guerillas. Throughout the mid-20th century the PLF did the unthinkable, however, and with victory after victory pushed the Komatar back to hold-outs in the southern Levant, gaining support from a Choist Dra-Pol, Galatian, Greek and Congolese Communists. What started off as a military coup with support of the Church eventually developed into its own political ideology and society, gaining traction throughout Rumyak and abroad. By the 1970s the Komatar had long abandoned efforts to create a democratic state and became more repressive as it attempted to hold onto power, persecuting Socialists and conscripting its citizens to defend an ever-shrinking territory. The PLF, ran at first by a motley crew of generals and radical thinkers and streamlined by successive purges, coups and counter-coups was equally condemnable, but with the promise of peace on the horizon after almost two centuries of division, support for the Socialists ran higher than ever.

Finally, in the summer of 1986, the last holdouts of the Komatar were overrun in an anticipated but nevertheless spectacular invasion of the Levant; the ordinance fired over the coming four months would supercede the amount used in Europe over the entire Great War. In a culmination of the PLF's grand strategem of attrition and psychological warfare, the Komatar collapsed, the major cities of Jerusalem, Antioch and Damascus falling into anarchy. By October of the same year, the last remaining forces of the Komatar's 40-year reigime were captured by the PLF and executed.

With Rumyak once again restored under a Socialist government, economic growth and political stability finally blessed a nation which for most of the 20th century was viewed as little more than a backwater. After years of tension with many European nations for supporting the Komatar, trade has flourished even as political relations remain somewhat frosty; the allure of Rumyak's sizable oil reserves in the East has attracted much foreign investment and an unlikely tourist boom from migrants to the Holy Land has helped to make Rumyak a significant regional power, perhaps even meddling with Shieldian politics in the late 80s and 90s; supporting the various secessionist groups (Chingizid or otherwise). I don't really know how to deal with the situation in Gallaga as it stands; the PLF would give limited support to rebels and defectors in Depkazia (notably Brab Khan), but I feel Rumyak would be somewhat more aggressive than the Byzantines were, certainly leaping to the aid of the Soviet factions within Gallaga. I've yet to find a reason to explain how Chingiz has managed to take over the region now that a big socialist oil-pumping powerhouse is sitting a stone's throw away, but I think whatever the nation I made to fit into this claim we'd need some serious discussion about Gallaga now that the Byzantines are no more.

Economy

Rumyak's GDP per capita would probably be somewhere around $8000-9000, indicative of its recent economic boom but also its past hardships, lack of long-term development or cosumer economy. Most corporations are state-run, with private enterprise consisting of small businesses dealing in luxury goods. The workforce is split into a complex heighrarchy managed by the beaureucracy, but informally the Orders that once used to unite tradesmen of old act as powerful fraternities. The PLF has done some work to curb the influence of these Orders, which can be groups of up to tens of thousands of workers and act as de facto unions, by adding successive tiers of beaureucracy such as the Comissarat. Communication between the PLF and its workforce as a result is often slow and sometimes clumsy, and top-down management has been replaced in favour of a grassroots organization around the Orders.

Religion

Catharism, an old form of Christianity fused with Dualist ideology and Jewish and Pagan rituals, is the dominant and official faith of Rumyak, with 93% of its citizens professing to be Cathars. Whilst the PLF in theory protects those belonging to a religious minority, and the Church is less interested in persecuting apostates and heathens, there is little legislation concerning the rights of this 7%. The majority of Orders only admit practicing Cathars, government posts can only be held by Cathars (or in some circumstances, Jews and Sufis), and most importantly, non-Cathars are not granted Rumyak citizenship, and are instead classed as 'long-term residents'. The reason for this is as much political as it is religious; Rumyak has always fought against intrusions by Catholic and Islamic nations (the Caliphate, at least) and regards adherants of a foreign faith as political rivals, hoping to undermine the Cathar identity of the region and in particular claim the Holy Land for their own faith. However, those belonging to minority denominations of many religions, or unorganized (e.g. pagan) faiths are usually accepted and regarded without suspicion, and thus are allowed to live side-by-side with the Cathars. This has been reinforced in recent years by reconciliations with the now-Communist Geletia and Galatia, the prevailing attitude being that political ideology trumps religious faith when it comes to international relations. Similarly, other Socialist nations have come to see Rumyak's differences to (predominantly) Catholic Europe, and concede that Marxist views on religion didn't apply as rigorously to the more progressive Cathar Church, which itself facilitated the Socialist revolution within Rumyak.

I'll add bits and bobs tomorrow, a few facts and figures to go along with this huge wall of text that I've been writing over the past week, as well as explaining more in depth what this Catharism malarky actually is.