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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:56 am

As far as the economy, I just went with a number and didn't really put that much thought behind it. In all honestly, I can knock it down. It isn't like Hawaii is ever going to be a major economic power in the world. I can take it down to around 4-5,000 per capita. Feels that could even be better because of the fact Hawaii will pinch pennies more forcefully than even the Walmingtonian Exchequer.

I'm honored, as always, to have Sir Harold involved in history here. I think it's a fitting end for the legendary navigator. Imagine crash landing in Hawaii and having to finish out your life there. Not too bad of a proposition, I believe. And the interfering English can very well be James Rain. As far as the flag, I will put that into the mix in some capacity. It does make sense for the flag if you consider the RL Hawaiian flag.

I did borrow some from when I plopped down in Western North America because it just really has some sense to it that I can't seem to kick. Of course, there will be the gratuitous use of surfing here as well with the added bonus of some author appeal just because I can. I expect the usual deal with a claim like this one: without considerable resources, again, not a major player economically speaking, but, it is probably a nice vacation spot for people around the world and a great place to stop in Trans-Pacific flights between Asia and North America. So, now to put Walmingtonians on surfboards and grass skirts!
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Walmington on Sea
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:41 pm

Sounds good. Thumbs up to the claim from me.

Economically, I think anything in the 4-10k range seems very much viable, based on my near total lack of relevant expertise :)

Any other help with history or the current political, diplomatic, economic, military, or other situation that I or the Walmingtonians can offer, let me know.

Hm, maybe I should raise a Hawaiian Brigade attached to the English Army that gives poor Polynesian lads a chance to see the world, earn sterling at or near English rates, and at least apply for dual citizenship once their term's up. Perhaps Sir Harold was involved in inter-tribal fighting back before the unification of the islands, and wrote of being impressed by the quality of fighting men, as well as helping to introduce 'European' military doctrine at an early stage to at least one island; then later when Rain tried to subjugate the islands, some part of the effort entailed fighting on one or more island, and lead to some direct military set-back against native warriors that wasn't anticipated by the white interlopers, reinforcing the English view of native Hawaiians as a 'martial race' who should be encouraged to volunteer for His Majesty's forces?

Now to convince the Hawaiian military to buy a couple of Thresher Class patrol/training/tenders...
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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:52 pm

Walmington on Sea wrote:Sounds good. Thumbs up to the claim from me.

Economically, I think anything in the 4-10k range seems very much viable, based on my near total lack of relevant expertise :)

Any other help with history or the current political, diplomatic, economic, military, or other situation that I or the Walmingtonians can offer, let me know.

Hm, maybe I should raise a Hawaiian Brigade attached to the English Army that gives poor Polynesian lads a chance to see the world, earn sterling at or near English rates, and at least apply for dual citizenship once their term's up. Perhaps Sir Harold was involved in inter-tribal fighting back before the unification of the islands, and wrote of being impressed by the quality of fighting men, as well as helping to introduce 'European' military doctrine at an early stage to at least one island; then later when Rain tried to subjugate the islands, some part of the effort entailed fighting on one or more island, and lead to some direct military set-back against native warriors that wasn't anticipated by the white interlopers, reinforcing the English view of native Hawaiians as a 'martial race' who should be encouraged to volunteer for His Majesty's forces?

Now to convince the Hawaiian military to buy a couple of Thresher Class patrol/training/tenders...


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Yanitza
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Founded: Feb 18, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Yanitza » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:19 am

Hey everyone, I used to be a member of this group for short while a while ago but unfortunately did not give it enough time and activity which I should have. I was wandering if it was still possible for me to reapply to the Rp?
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The Amyclae
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Founded: Jan 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Amyclae » Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:02 am

Fire away!
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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:06 pm

Yanitza, you don't have to ask permission to post an application. If I remember your application correctly, it was given a lot of approvals from the members. So, I look forward to reading your new application.
Last edited by Chrinthania on Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yanitza
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Yanitza » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:31 pm

cool, with my application however seeing as their is a Rome in Iberia now, i just wanted to run it by you and see if you were cool with he idea of an ex roman colony in North America?
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Chrinthania
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Postby Chrinthania » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:43 pm

Yanitza wrote:cool, with my application however seeing as their is a Rome in Iberia now, i just wanted to run it by you and see if you were cool with he idea of an ex roman colony in North America?


That definitely works for me.
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Acadzia
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Founded: Nov 15, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Acadzia » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:23 pm

Nation: Kingdom of Atlantis

RL Location: Islands of Sumatra, Simeulue, basically everything in this map that is both a) yellow, and b) isn't claimed by Emesa. http://indonesiacountry.com/wp-content/ ... ra-map.jpg


Population: 54,365,538 (2010)

Government: Constitutional Monarchy, with a hereditary upper-house and a popularly elected lower house.

The current monarch is King Orm Ancinor.

History: Atlantis is an island kingdom in the Indian [or whatever AMW would call it] Ocean, with a storied past. In ancient times, the island of Atlantis was dominanted by myriad thalassocracies, whose undeniable, albeit fractured, naval power inspired Western legends of a powerful island nation called "Atlantis". Due to the relative isolation of the island chain, these micro-kingdoms warred for much of Atlantis's early history amongst themselves, giving rise to a fairly sectarian, brutal political climate with local cultural discrepancies, but with a fairly homogenous overall culture with shared taboos (such as killing a guest after you've given them coffee, shared gods among a pantheon, etc.)

As early as 40AD, Christian missionaries (either acolytes of St. Thomas, or perhaps the Apostle himself, landed on the island, and initially, their fate was the same as the Buddhists and Hindus whom had arrived before - the locals would set aside their grievances, and offer the "Others" to their gods. Death came swiftly to these Christians, whose slain god seemed frail to the Atlantians' pantheon. However, one Atlantian ruler was, according to legend, moved by the visions and dreams of his wife to accept Christ. He painted a cross on his shield, and many of his men, some seeking to gain favour, others genuinely converted, followed suit. This king united Atlantis under one banner, one king, and one God.

Within three or four generations, however, his dynasty was ended, and the pagan gods of ancient Atlantis soon came back into favour. A silent, sometimes suffering, Christian minority survived, eventually cloistering and ghettoizing themselves almost entirely on the island of Nias. There they set up monasteries and schools, which, as Atlantis fell into internecine warfare again after the decline of the old empire, were sometimes subject to pillaging and raiding.

In the 12th century, Islam arrived to the island, and a more Latin Catholicism did as well from European traders and would-be colonists. After many brutal attempts by Outsiders to colonize the islands Atlantis would soon begin to see a need to unite. In 1420, the Ancinor Dynasty was founded by Eochaid Ancinor, who united, for the second time in the islands' history, all the peoples of Atlantis under one banner. Islamist and Latin alike were repelled, and the Ancinor Kings ushered in a policy of isolationism and xenophobia. The "Outsiders" had brought too much strife.

It wasn't until the world engulfing violence of the Great War did the agrarian kingdom of Atlan realize it's need to not only modernize, but to engage the rest of the world. Immediately after the Great War, Atlantis did just that.

Culture: Atlantians are a hardy, fiercely independent and suspicious people. They are ultra-conservative in outlook and are slow to adapt, though the government's policy of the past 100 years has changed that to some degree. Atlantian culture is inherently meritocratic, however, and women have always enjoyed a fair degree of autonomy, so long as they were able to hold it through guile or strength.

Atlantian indigenous religion is often described by outsiders as "dark" and "violent," and it reflects the harshness of ancient Atlantis. There are two major, opposed gods in Atlantian indigenous religion, Poseiboron, who is depicted as a young, trident wielding, bearded man with a seashell crown, and Whyrm, a scaleless sea-dragon who is Poseiboron' master who will eventually devour him, and all creation. Atlantians believe that men once lived beneath the sea and were ruled by Poseiboron, and were deceived by another god of the Atlantian pantheon, a trickster god, unto crawling up onto land. Whyrm, creator of the universe, has therefore damned all mankind, and shall consume them in the end days. Only the strong and the fierce will be killed before being eaten, while the weak and cowardly will suffer for millennia in the stomach of Whyrm.

It is not difficult to understand, then, why other religious did not make many inroads into Atlantis. Yet, either by fluke or divine intervention, Christianity managed to hold on as a small sect. While today, most Altantians don't believe in their ancient religion, of course, but the truisms within it still permeate much of the culture, though not to the degree it might have before the era of non-isolationism and modernisation. Atlantis has a strong Christian minority, who are under the auspices of the See of Peter in Rome. Though Christians are perceived by most Atlantians as being shrewd, weak, stingy, and untrustworthy.

Quizzically, then, Atlantis's two major religious influences are a religion where all will be eaten by God, and one where God provides Himself to be eaten.

Atlantis has a strong naval heritage, and most men spend at least some portion of their life in the country's naval forces. The trident spear, used first as a fishing implement by ancient peoples and then as a weapon by militias, has become a symbol of the island to many.

Presently, Atlantis is relatively peaceful, but sectarian violence isn't unheard of in some urban neighbourhoods.


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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:29 pm

A, A, B, B, up, down, up, down, left, right, left, right...

The application itself looks pretty solid to me. I'm all for it.
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Acadzia
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Founded: Nov 15, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Acadzia » Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:25 pm

Welp, if no one opposes, I'm going to keep working on my Factbook and probably throw what I have up tonight or tomorrow on the off-site.
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The Amyclae
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Founded: Jan 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Amyclae » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:22 pm

I don't have any complaints!
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Nova Gaul
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Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Fri May 10, 2013 8:53 pm

So AMW.

First off, let me say, I am totally content with Emesa, love it, will not abandon it, and will be playing it until they wipe my cold, dead hand off of the keyboard.

That said, I don’t know if I am (originally) homesick, nostalgic, put in whatever verb you like, but I really really miss Restoration France. Not the state so much as the nation, if you get my meaning. That is, an Ancien Regime country with three estates, wigs, and noblesse oblige (in theory). Maybe it’s just because I finished La Révolution française: les Années lumière (an underrated production that is rather epic and historically fair, objective, towards all sides). Maybe its just because I was reminiscing about Tord. Maybe I just miss the Old Country.

So, I would like to request a second nation, preferably in Europe, that would be a Bourbon Monarchy filled with “French” people, the details of which I can maybe work out with Europe-Prussia.

I believe Sweden and Norway are free (I know I am tempting fate because every nation played there has collapsed). It would be a Bourbon monarchy, of course, with a Louis on the throne. Much like the Shield before the Revolution it would be an uneasily industrialized country. The nobility have kept power, the bourgeoisie want it, and the King has not called an Estates General in over 400 years. But he soon will, because despite a powerful economy there is a stark divide between the haves (the aristocracy and bourgeois in the cities) and the haves-nots, a well-educated by perennially disempowered peasantry (a dangerous combination).

I imagine the state, I may even get to call it France since Europe Prussia is Valendia, is probably reliant on an alliance with Gandvik, also its main trading partner, and extremely worried because of the collapse of the Shieldian Monarchy., That’s the gist of it, wanted to put it out there and see what the community thought.

Especially since things are heating up in Amberland, this might be a chance to introduce the nation (and get to RP!). But as I said, I leave it to the community.

EDIT!!!:

AND SCRATCH Norway and Sweden right off the prospective list! Sorry, LRR, didn’t know that Gandvik extended that far out and must have missed it along the way!

How much ire would I rouse if I transferred the said idea for such a Bourbon state to England? (Plugs ears as WoS vomits copiously!) Ahh yes, Versailles is just a short distance from the capital of LONDRES. It is, if I say so myself, a delightfully twisted idea and appropriate for the unique nature of countries in AMW.

Maybe it arose after the Hundred Years War, at which time the Bourbons (descendant of the Plantagenets) won France’s (read, England’s) independence from the mainland! The idea is just so twisted I love it. France in England!

Whether or not AMW will even sanction the idea is one thing, but the thought of it sends tingles of delight up my spine!!!!

If the community would be interested in hearing more, I’d happily write up a formal proposal.
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Fri May 10, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova Gaul
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Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sat May 11, 2013 8:11 pm

*prods*

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Walmington on Sea
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Sun May 12, 2013 3:22 am

I suppose that if EP's ever around and it works for him, such a thing could work, with Franks fleeing the Belkan conquests of the early 13th century, or Britain being assumed formerly part of Charlemagne's domain and drawn into the same wars of secession after his demise.

However, such a claim might also have heavy implications for Modravia's Amerique, so that'd have to be discussed.

Perhaps if you can get through all that and remain interested, that'll prove something.

Will the two claims be different enough to keep you interested in playing both? How wealthy will the new nation be? What'll it be called?
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Cassanos
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Founded: Dec 30, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Sun May 12, 2013 4:36 am

I had this window open since last night, but fell asleep before I could formulate an answer. I therefore consider myself prodded ;).

First of all, generally speaking, I do like the idea. AMW has been reluctant to grant sizable secondary claims, though, with LRR and Walmington being notable exceptions. Their secondary claims have been approved because they have proven themselves to be sufficiently experienced roleplayers as well as very constant in their claims. Concerning you, Jean, while I have no doubts about the first bit, I must admit I worry a bit about the second part. Usually, when people say "no offence", they do indeed aim to offend, but I hope you will believe me when I say that I honestly don't mean to offend when I say that you have been slightly erratic with your claims on occasion. tl;dr: Will you stick to it?
If so, I would happily approve a new Bourbon claim in Europe, since I have quite happy memories about hating those Papist, feudalist frog-eaters in AMW ;).

Now, as for possible locations, I wonder whether England, with its (formerly) strong industrial base and whopping fifty million people might not be a tad too large for this. Maybe you could consider filling an unsightly hole (which, I am certain, is what she said) in Western Europe and move to the remainder of the BeNeLux-countries and a bit of Germany? I would love to have another neighbour whose populace yearns to be free.

/EDIT: Which reminds me: Would the community terribly mind if Nibelunc expanded its borders slightly west of the Rhine into the remainder of North Rhine Westphalia? It wouldn't boost population levels too much, and I would be willing to give up part or all of the Dutch territory in my claim.
Last edited by Cassanos on Sun May 12, 2013 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Gaul
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Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sun May 12, 2013 5:59 am

Great points gentlemen, and thanks much for the response!

WoS: I honestly believe that both claims would indeed be different enough to maintain my interest. I say that because as I have grown to love Emesa it does not really let me explore my Ancien Regime...fetish...but it gives me a chance to be a moderate state with a relatively low-intensity schedule of RP. I'd love a smaller state in Europe to compliment that. So yes this is a prime concern, but I honestly think I'd be able to manage it.

Yes, EP and Modravia will have to consult before anything continues, though perhaps more of the former than the latter? I also agree that perhaps the Franks, at least a number of them prior Belkan conquest, leaving or cut off could have founded the nation. To that end I'd offer the no doubt unoriginal, but plausible, 'Kingdom of France', Franks being the root of France. But as you say, there is still much that needs to be discussed.

My initial inclination would have been to cut the GDP of England by half or more. That is, the state would resemble the Shield more than England per se, albeit it with a little less flagrant exploitation, maybe a little more sophistication (it being French): basically to create an economy where 21st Century industry combined with a decayed Feudal system creates a realistic result. This will require much community input and advice. My only non-negotiables are an Ancient Regime Government and in theory absolute Bourbon monarchy. After that, help me create. Oh, and a copy of Versailles even if I can't call it that (although I'd like to, of course) maybe at St. Albans!

Cass: Right on all counts, no offence taken whatsoever. I'd offer in my defense first then above about being able to entertain both nations at once and second evidence that over the past three years I've cooled down, so to speak, considerably, and except for a brief lapse this winter because of a grueling schedule and threat of IRL communist annihilation! As to that, mea culpa!

The Benelux idea is also excellent! I admit I didn't consider it at all when my mulling this idea over. I know the population of England is indeed large, but I must admit I liked the idea of a large rural population, smaller industrial population, and smaller still elite. Like I mentioned to WoS...like the Shield but an bit less intense and more French, oh and more formal. That was my idea to slash the GDP, drain the cities (excepting Londres) and making then countryside more crowded. I sent a TG to Ian btw, early days, early early I know, but for some reason I pictured dynastic ties between then two states if they were to ever simultaneously exist.

Anyway, to wit, if you think the Benelux were to fit better I'd be all for it. In either case, one thing I want to realistically create would be a country with a circa 1788 French government trying to get as far as it can with a modern economy without the outright corporate domination of the Shield, pre GFR. That is a country with all the requisites for a modern, dynamic Western European country that can't get there because the government is still grappling with political issues raised during the Enlightenment.

So basically those are my nascent ideas and approaches. Oh, and maybe some involvement currently or in the past with the United Kongo, as France looks abroad to try and export unemployment problems via imperialm. That was one other notion of mine, that because the royal government is stifling a fully developed modern mixed market economy the unemployment level would be +/- 20%, which the government tenuously keeps at bay by a subsistence welfare program.

As you can see, a lot going on! Oh, and last part of the claim...I would like one city only in Switzerland, really a tiny hamlet would do, so I can have a Swiss Guard.

My last comment is that I would prefer to have England, maybe even less of it if the community likes, because it would help explain why my prospective states brother-in-law Valencia (yes I know I am assuming big here) didn't gobble it and how they evolved separately. Then again, I suppose shrewd diplomacy if I were to Rp the remainder of the Benelux would accomplish the same goal.

In any case I will start writing at least a history and culture, while I wait for the community to deliberate and perhaps illuminated my economic conundrum and suggest the best geography.

Edit

Excuse my weird type o's, writing on a mobile and the auto-correct drives me insane
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Sun May 12, 2013 6:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Sun May 12, 2013 12:35 pm

Well, NG, I think that everyone else has pretty much addressed my concerns. I think, though, they are minor concerns. I am for anything that kick starts AMW into the appearance of having life. Quite honestly, we're too slow with too few applicants. So I am not willing to really try to resist anyone doing anything that brings us life.
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a gay dude.
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Europe - Prussia
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Founded: Oct 25, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Europe - Prussia » Sun May 12, 2013 3:07 pm

Pffft, so much has happened while I was "away" so to speak, that I don't know where to start. First of all, I'm still alive and well, just busy as hell with exams and such and with a lack of creativity to RP something worthwhile. Thankfully, tomorrow I'll have my last test until June at least and I have some ideas for a RP and my factbook so i'll be around more frequently :)

Now, onto business. First of all, I have no problems with you having a secondary nation NG, provided this second claim doesn't become overly powerful and remains in the Northern Atlantic-European sphere and doesn't go wandering to Southeast Asia. I digress though seeing that all of these concerns were already mentioned when this issue was raised the first time.

About possible issues, well, WoS and Cass already voiced all of them, and all of them have been promptly answered so no problems there. Claim-wise, even though i'd like to see that gap between myself and Cass filled by someone, I have no problems with you taking either England or BeNeLux. History-wise, there's a lot of events that could lead to France's creation, though Belka's war of conquest may be the best choice. I'll me doing some small changes to my history though, though most aesthetic in nature.

Overall, I'm looking forward to this new claim, and see what kind of chaos it may bring to western Europe.

Now, onto the second issue. I just checked the world map and saw that the island of Borneo was taken by WoS with the exception of Brunei, which is mine. Obviously it changes things; for one, it would be very hard to justify the existence of two small strips of land in a island that is mostly controlled by a power that, until the later part of the XX century, was somewhat hostile. So, with the community's permission, i'd like to exchange Brunei for The Philippines' province of Palawan. The population is of 771,667, which would add to my population circa 300,000, seeing that Brunei's population is of 408,786. My main reasons for this are the same with Brunei's: keep a small piece of a long forgotten glorious colonial Empire, which spurned Valendia to enter in the Great War when the opportunity to recover what they believed belonged to them presented itself.

Also, it would be too troublesome modify some stuff in my factbook :p
Last edited by Europe - Prussia on Sun May 12, 2013 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Gaul
Diplomat
 
Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sun May 12, 2013 10:31 pm

Le Royaume de France*

Claim: "Spots not filled in, in Europe”, that is to say Austria-ish and the Benelux.
*Haiti (Haiti and Dominican Republic, Hispaniola) too if that is okay, if not, not problem whatsoever.

So, to address this point. I think that to claim England would necessitate having a strong navy, it just makes sense. And the nation I would propose, although it will have a small but pretty modern navy (especially if I have/had imperial relations or colonial alliances with the Kongo) could not afford such a competitive force. Therefore, although I would love to have like England, I think that the above makes better sense, allows me to have more neighbors, and helps fill in the blank parts of Europe.

*So I suppose the technical name for the state would be “Le Royaume de France et de l'Autriche’. I should mention this is not a dual monarchy, but much like France and Navarre were originally both under Bourbon rulership, like that.

I think this would give me a population of +/- 20 million, so that might alleviate some concerns about having too large a population. See the history part for why this makes sense, or maybe doesn’t.

History

(Nuts and Bolts Version)

*The Bourbon family was originally a cadet branch of the Carolingian Dynasty, they assumed control of the remainder of French lands and forces during Belka’s War around 1230 and consolidated the remainder of French lands under their control (at this time, the Benelux-ish free stuff only). Rather than continue fighting the Bourbons quickly negotiated a peace with the Valendians, which began centuries of an often contentious but fairly stable amity between the two nations.

*Flash forward to the Napoleonic Wars. Although the Bourbon Dynasty disagreed with many of General Napoleon’s policies, they saw his military prowess as a chance to stick it to their larger and troublesome neighbor, Nibelunc, who was forever overshadowing their trade and commerce. Therefore the French marched with Napoleon in his wars on conquest – somehow the treaty that ended the war saw Austria-ish lands signed over to French control. At least, that is an idea. Conversely, there were always French, and a Nib victory taking the city of Stuttgart in the wars separated the two. Either way is fine.

Oh, during the Valendian Revolution the Bourbons dismissed the Estates General [which had only met periodically to decide measures like taxation and national policy], fearing (correctly) it might usurp their rule. So from then on France has been a total absolute monarchy, while heretofore it was (in theory) a parliamentary monarchy.

*On to the Industrial Revolution, Colonial Era, and Imperialism too, why not. Beginning in the 1800s France industrialized. Funds for industrialization (given the lack of large scale middle class investment capital) came from lucrative French trade in the Kongo, where they beat the Valendians to secure trade rights. This was the time when France’s Royal Africa Company, la Compagnie Royale d’Afrique, was founded, with the King the as chartered founder and the nobles as primary investors. The upshot was France industrialized and obtained lucrative foreign trading contracts (ivory, timber, and slaves and eventually rubber?)

(Slaves were sent to French sugar plantations in Haiti?)
(La Compagnie Royale d’Afrique still exists and plays a role in the modern United Kongo?)

Overseas companies and colonies played an important role for France as the increasingly powerful and dominant monarchy/aristocracy stifled bourgeoisie ambitions, which were -successfully- channeled abroad. With the windfall of profits, Louis XI built Versailles circa 1830 (outside Bruxelles in Mechelen)

*In the 1800s too France had a major change in foreign policy. Before, France was notorious (save the Napoleonic Alliances) for switching alliances like the wind: Great Walmington, Gandvik, Rome, Tsalland, Geletia, and even Nibelunc were allies to France as the situation dictated, often several in a year, often for less than a month at a time.. Valendia, however, remained a fairly constant if not devoted ‘friend’ if not actual ally. This earned France a reputation for ‘high diplomacy’ as well as long-term faithlessness. But beginning in the 1830s the Bourbons realized their ideal ally would be the High Kingdom of the Shield: not close enough to hurt France, yet close enough to several major powers to give them hesitation to attack the smaller Kingdom of France. So Louis XI married his daughter Adelaide to the High King’s son, formally beginning the Grand Alliance, which saw the Kingdoms of France and the Shield formally bind themselves to one another.

This was an advantageous alliance. Bankers in Luxembourg and Bruxelles were able to provide loans to the Shield, the Shield gave any giant central European power that wish to gobble up France second thoughts. And both kingdoms were, of course, firmly Catholic.

Also, I might mention France was a devoted daughter of Mother Church (the Church being the largest private landowner even today in France), which in time convinced the Popes to eventually declare France as a state the ‘Eldest Daughter of the Church’ and her kings ‘Most Christian’.

*The Great War, I haven’t a clue really. I don’t think France could have played a large role considering the size of various powers involved. On the one hand Valendia was Oakist, on the other the Shield was Allied. I guess that France was forced to remain neutral.

*Currently. The Revolution in the Shield greatly disturbed Bourbon France, which had more or less plodded on fairly successfully with its chimerical Ancien Regime/Industrial state in tact. While unemployment is high and jobs (in factories, banking, farming, and, well, everything) had become hereditary government welfare subsidies assured the poor had food [and liquor] and no one could have predicted a change anytime soon. But in the summers of 2011 and 2012, in major cities like Anvers and Bruxelles, ‘flash-mob’ riots broke out…mainly young liberal nobles at university or other wealthy city-dwellers, as new smart phones made tweet-communication possible. In Bruxelles the city hall was even stormed by the rioters, who occupied it and waved anarchist banners from the roof top. They were stopped short of declaring a constitution or national assembly by (a very shocked and unprepared) police, but only just.

Although an unintended consequence was the upper middle and more conservative upper classes became more loyal to the monarchy, the riots also showed (as the Revolution in the Shield had) that a government which seemed strong might in a moment collapse. It is also worth noting that the current king’s wife, Queen Elizabeth, is the sister of the former King of the Shield James, and since the revolution has taken a rather reactionary turn.

Consequently…

1) The King raised the dole for the poor, increasingly their weekly payments, more or less openly bribe people to calm down. This put a serious dent in the state coffers and will force the king to eventually tax the First and Second Estates, the Church and Aristocracy, if he wishes to avoid inflation. He cannot do this without incredible discontent unless he recalls the Estates General, and pressure is mounting for him to do this.

2) For the first time in centuries the monarchy has become markedly oppressive. The king’s own cousin, Philippe, was thrown into the Bastille under letter de cachet (without trial and beyond appeal)…he was the owner of France’s largest telecommunication provider, and refused to shut down the network during the summer riots. As Philippe is something of a hero to liberal nobles and intelligentsia this was a very unpopular move. The are also rumors in France now of a Bureau Noir that is monitoring phone and email conversation, copying a model used (and perhaps installed) by the Principality of Gandvik. Tales of Shieldian horror, told by aristocratic émigrés from that troubled land in Versailles only fuel King (and especially Queen) to adopt a more repressive mentality. If riots were to begin in the summer of 2013, the government might well deal with them lethally.

3) Without the Shield as France’s muscular ally the Bourbon Foreign Ministry is casting about for a new friend. The rumors say it will be Valendia, the obvious choice. Other rumors say that a faction at Court is intent on starting a counter-revolution in the Shield, to win back that most satisfactory ally.

Government

De Jure: Parliamentary Monarchy (1300-1804)
De Facto: Absolute Monarchy (1804-current)

Chief of State: King Louis XVI (yes, I know, hush)

Administrative Capital: Château de Versailles
Regional Capitals: Bruxelles (France), Munich (l'Autriche), Port au Prince (Haiti)

Although the King is without doubt the absolute monarch of France, in practice he rules through the Conseil du Roi, King’s Council.

The current King, Louis XVI, has spent literally 99% of his life ensconced in the lavish palace of Versailles: hunting, fishing, holding glittering balls, and entertaining the various symphonies of Europe. He travelled to Rome once to meet the new pope, and travels (a short trip by train) once a year to Bruxelles for the annual Opera Ball (the King being a great devotee of high opera). He was shocked out of his stupor by the Shieldian Revolution, however, and has been active in the past few years in running the government personally, usually, not wisely. It is worth nothing that as the Kingdom of France is an absolute monarchy there is no prime minister, although four ministers effectively run the day to day affairs of the Kingdom.

Conseil du Roi

Chancellor of France: Charles Alexandre, Vicomte de Calonne
Duties: To ensure that the King’s wishes are carried out through all levels of the government.
Controller-General of Finances: Étienne Charles de Loménie de Brienne, Archbishop of Liege
Duties: To manage the Bank of France, interest rates, taxes, and all commercial and financial regular in the kingdom.
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord, Prince de Bénévent,
Duties: To manage the foreign relations of France
Minister of War: Louis Phélypeaux, Duc de La Vrillière
Duties: To manage the military of the Kingdom of France

*Internal affairs, since 1804 and the dismissal of all elected forms of government, in managed by the Intendants. These men are appointed by the king to directly oversee and manage the administrative and security concerns of all France’s towns, cities, and districts.

Economy

So, my plan as regards the economy. Basically, I need help here.

My inclination would be to keep the GDP of the lands (with Benelux and Austria-ish I cant really say the majority of the population is rural) but confine the monies to a smaller group of people. I won’t say anymore on this right now, except I’d ask for suggestions. The areas I am claiming (at least the Benelux) are densely populated and wealthy, especially Luxembourg. Can I keep something of a banking center (especially if France is still involved in the United Kongo)? Anyway, please, suggestions.

Military

Designed, basically, over the past two-hundred years to be a loyal institution to the king first and foremost…operational capability would come in second.

Air Force: will be small, flight-officers would be restricted to titled nobles. (More of the French system of nobility if/when nation is approved)
-Would buy its Mirages from Valendia.

Navy: I suspect the only meritocratic branch of France’s military, would be small and modern.

Army: Most interesting part! I envision it mostly as being made up of foreign nationals (especially from poorer countries where recruits would be easy to find) and secondarily regional brigades. Mechanized units would be sprinkled throughout. Of course the countries involved would need to give me their approval. But an example would be something like this…

Gardes Suisses: Probably several regiments, the crème de la crème. Fill the role of special forces and troops whose loyalty to the king is beyond doubt. The famous Cent Suisses would be the king’s personal bodyguards, probably also a regiment would be stationed at or around Versailles itself.
Régiment de Royal-Allemand (two or three regiments): Drawn from l'Autriche, probably two regiments would be stationed in Austria and one in France.
Gardes Françaises (two or three regiments): Drawn from actual Frenchmen, like the Austrians they would have several regiments scattered about.
Gardes Africains: If United Kongo is amenable, several regiments of Congolese nationals would be hired by the French Crown, for life, and would be scattered about the Kingdom. After a certain period of service they would obtain residency and benefits and such.
…And so on, I would particularly like to ask the Ian, Depkazia, Chemaki and Ferkas if I could get a regiment or two from them. BG too, if a few maybe royalist Celts would be willing. Religion would of course not be an issue, but all foreign troops would probably have to live on-base or in separate areas so as not to become too ‘familiar’ with the populace.

So gentlemen, that is a rough, rough working idea. Please send thoughts, advice, and maybe permission my way.

Need input from:

Cassanos (Rotterdam might not even be in the free Benelux...what cities in RL germany are?)
Europe Prussia (History okay with you and subsequent assertions?)
United Kongo (History?)
EVERYONE ELSE IN AMW!!!
Last edited by Nova Gaul on Sun May 12, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nova Gaul
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Sun May 12, 2013 11:42 pm

An addendum, rather than an edit, to the above...

I wonder if the reason, in part, why Luxembourg is perhaps so wealthy (aside from the fact, if United Kongo is amenable, that is made money illicitly from Royal Africa Company misadventures) is that it was a banking center for the oligarchs of the Shield? That is, if Ian is even okay with the history I've proposed. In that event it might lead to several interesting routes of RP...in the first place, any noble Shieldian émigrés that made it to France would be able to live very well, in the second, the French would doubless refuse to return any funds to the non-recognized Gull Flag Republic, a cause of tension no doubt.

Anyway, just a thought.

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Walmington on Sea
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Postby Walmington on Sea » Mon May 13, 2013 1:06 pm

EP, I find myself wondering, what did you expect to happen in Borneo? For the rest of it to remain forever Dragonland? What makes Palawan safe from the English Naval Services that couldn't protect Brunei?

As one solution to Brunei's vulnerability, I could always work in a White Raja situation on Borneo, with part of the island ruled historically by an English dynasty that is not technically part of the Walmingtonian Empire, part by the Empire, and part by Valendia, the White Rajas being too weak to risk war with Valendia, and the Walmingtonians not keen to see those two fighting and be forced to change their policy towards the Rajas. In modern times, WoS isn't likely to go around attacking European colonies, and the only question would be over the Great War, and how the Valendian presence survived that... but surely the same question would extend to a colony on Palawan, with English, Emesan, and American warships presumably dominating the region at large.

I think the way to go may be to suggest that if Brunei just keeps its head down and isn't used by the Oakists during the war, the Walmingtonians would be happy simply to blockade any oil shipments, using a few obsolete warships, and leave it at that, rather than commit to an invasion and occupation while troops are needed elsewhere.

Perhaps historically Valendian control extended over a larger portion of the island, until the English turned up and boxed them into a corner.

I'm not trying to say, "No!" to a switch, I just don't quite understand the reasoning behind it.



As to Jean, I'm not sure that siding with Napoleon is likely to result in the French gaining massive territory near/from Swabia/Bohemia/Geletia/Rome in a war that Napoleon ultimately loses quite convincingly. As to the proposed alternative, that would of course be down to Cass, but it seems to me that the intervening territory is Swabia, one of the distinct nations comprising the Nibelung federation. Could something not simply be worked out so that during one of Valendia's chaotic periods of dynastic struggle or such several not necessarily contiguous areas declared loyalty to the Bourbons, and France today coincides more or less with areas where that support was sufficiently strong to endure against Belkan strength?

The Shield, by the way, was not Allied in the Great War, but a central playing in the Pact of Oak. It would hardly have invaded Byzantium, Amberland, and Gandvik otherwise! I wouldn't be surprised if France weren't quickly over-run by the Oakists, as reportedly Geletia's powerful Northern Front had little to do for large parts of the war, and the prospect of Burgenland at least being annexed to Geletia has come up many times in AMW history, while Valendia probably would have raised historic claims on French territory. The French, I speculate at this point, may have played some part in the infamous Catholic betrayal of the Shield after the War of Henderson's Pig, which informed the Grand Empire's secret accession to the Pact of Oak.

Regarding Kongo, it is already established, is it not, that early Roman interest in the region faded, and rights passed to Tsalland in the early 1800s, enduring until the Saimonan War of 1915/16, where-after the Geletian Triarchy took over the colonial holdings of its defeated neighbour until independence following Geletia's defeat in the Great War? It of course isn't for me to say whether or not United Kongo would like to add somehow a French element in part of his nation.

I'm sure that if we/someone has a sit down and looks through the Landkreise and Kreisfreie cities of Bavaria, and similar Austrian sub-divisions, the complicated southern border of Nibelunc can be more accurately worked out so far as population break-down is concerned, though a few divided cities will still just have to be ham-fistedly chopped up, I'd expect.
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Cassanos
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Mon May 13, 2013 3:02 pm

I'm sure that if we/someone has a sit down and looks through the Landkreise and Kreisfreie cities of Bavaria, and similar Austrian sub-divisions, the complicated southern border of Nibelunc can be more accurately worked out so far as population break-down is concerned, though a few divided cities will still just have to be ham-fistedly chopped up, I'd expect.

Quite so, I am currently working out the exact boundaries and, more importantly, population numbers. At the moment, I can safely say that the total population of the Bourbonais (?) state would be well above 20 million... But I have a plan.

/EDIT: Okay, I have dug through loads and loads of dristricts and tried to keep eyeballing the numbers to a minimum - i.e., if I couldn't find a map of a municipality or a landkreis with some two to ten thousand people, I estimated the population distribution based on locations of major towns etc. I think my numbers should be correct to within about 50,000, probably. I have found the lovable Bavarian town of Titting and the awesome municipality of Großprüfening-Dechbetten-Königswiesen, a name which even I, a German, find awkwardly long.
Anyway, here are the numbers:

Germany:
RLP: 4,000,000 -> 634,734 Nib -> 3,368,266 FREE
NRW: 17.853.000 -> 9,613,490 Nib -> 8,239,510 FREE
BaWü: 10,842,000 -> 9,701,083 Nib -> 1,140,917 FREE
BAY: 12,666,000 -> 5,995,053 Nib -> 6,670,947 FREE
SAAR: 1,010,000 FREE

Germany Total: 82,036,000 -> Nib: 61,606,360
-> FREE: 20,429640

Austria: 8,488,511 -> 1,119,700 Nib -> 7,368,811 FREE

Belgium: 10,951,266 FREE
Luxembourg: 524,853 FREE
Netherlands: 16,680,000 -> 6,005,882 Nib -> 10,674,118 FREE

TOTAL FREE: 49,948,688

As you can see, the population of the territory in question is much, much closer to fifty million than twenty, giving the Bourbons about half as many people as Nibelunc and Rome, or almost two thirds of that of Valendia. I hope everybody understands that I think this, being a secondary claim, might need some changes ;). Now, I have no problem whatsoever with the BeNeLux and an Austrian exclave going to this new nation, giving it around 25 million people. Should the community (and Jean especially) be open to Nibelunc expanding into the remainder of North Rhine-Westphalia (raising my population by a whopping 9 million, mind you, so don't spare the criticism!), we would have a nice, decent-sized nation between Valendia and Nibelunc.

Another proposal:
This might, however, reduce the viability of a claim in southern Germany and Austria. Given that this spot appears to be relatively unpopular with new claimants, and has been for some time, I propose we get the four regulars bordering this patch of dragonland (five, with France) and split it between Nibelunc, Roma, Valendia and Geletia. I think this has several benefits for AMW: For one, it would create a tri-state border area between Geletia, Nibelunc and Rome as well as a border between the latter. This might involve each of those nations more in each others affairs - Nibelunc, for instance, sharing a much longer border with Geletia, might feel more threatened by developments there.

While my reasoning might be somewhat clouded by a delicious meal and excellent wine in the company of some friends, I hope this proposal will be considered by the community. I would like to postpone myself getting into Napoleonic affairs until this is resolved.
Last edited by Cassanos on Mon May 13, 2013 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chrinthania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Mon May 13, 2013 3:36 pm

I am getting the feeling that you, NG, Jean, if I may call you Jean, are more interested in finding a way back to Europe. I have no issue with that, but it feels rather spliced together rather than a cohesive claim. That being said, I've never been known to have my claim in order before going off on an application. WoS addressed my history concern, but to add my voice, if you support Napoleon, you're forever a Roman enemy.

I still say yes, though. History can be worked out over time.
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Cassanos
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Founded: Dec 30, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Mon May 13, 2013 4:33 pm

More rambling in my post above.
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