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Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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Nacrad
Diplomat
 
Posts: 760
Founded: Jan 16, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nacrad » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:52 pm

The South Chinese Republic is formed after the fall of the PRC due to incessant civil wars, and encompasses the Hakka and Yue peoples residing in what we now know as Guangdong, Hong Kong, Macau and the southern part of Jiangxi.

I will claim the territory that is Guangdong Province, Ganzhou prefecture, Hong Kong and Macau.
A 14 civilization (6-0-5), according to this index.
Wuhan Pneumonia: Total: 4,328; Recovered: 4,287; Dead: 41; New cases: 0; Active cases: 0 [15 days without new cases]
WAR:Front re-established ~60 km from Nanchang, heavy shelling of Nanchang restarts
NEWS:14/08/2020 (FRI) | Nanchang denies peace talks with Nacrad, says "we refuse to negotiate with capitalist dogs" | President orders restart of nuclear programme, cites Chinese and Indian threats | Nacrad accused of "capitalising on the illegal occupation of Kongsi" due to Riverfort-Ji'an Express
Riverfort 35/29°C | Amoy 37/31°C | Taipei 36/28°C

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The Crooked Beat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 651
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:57 pm

To begin with, I'll happily sign off on E-P's proposed alterations.

Secondly, as I've recently mentioned on discord, I'd like, if there are no objections, to add Madagascar and much of Morocco to Ezpanna.

The Moroccan regions in question are:
-L'Oriental: 2,314,346 people
-Fes-Meknes: 4,236,892 people
-Rabat-Sale-Kenitra: 4,580,866 people
-Beni Mellal-Khenifra: 2,520,776 people
-Casablanca-Settat: 6,861,739 people
(20,514,619 people in total)

Plus Madagascar (26,262,313 people), this would bring Ezpanna's total population to 100,426,217 people, or 99,858,815 people if Western Sahara is omitted. Tanger-Tetouan remains available, and I would encourage a Walmingtonian presence as a means of adding a bit of depth to the position at Gibraltar, as would the remainder of southern Morocco and Western Sahara, as this will provide any future claimant in Algeria with access to the Atlantic.

While, obviously, this almost doubles Ezpanna's population, my intent is for the Basque state to face a scenario where its resources, particularly its coercive resources, are taxed proportionally. Basque Morocco, which I'll provisionally call Valentia after one of the Roman-era settlements, potentially acts as a kind of Ireland to Ezpanna's Britain, simultaneously a rallying-point for the nationalist right and a permanent headache for Basque officialdom. Any pre-modern Valentia would have been linked to the Iberian world, and would undoubtedly have played an important role in Iberian history, though, as with the peninsula as a whole, the (Iberian) reformation may well have transformed matters. Valentia's local political arrangements could have been fractured by religious strife, a process subsequently leading to a series of murderous onslaughts from the Basque commonwealth and ultimate, if frequently challenged, conquest. From the 1700s onward, Valentia's political development would have been shaped by conflict between a ruling minority of both native and Basque-immigrant protestants, empowered by the Basque conquest, and a majority, or at least plurality, Catholic population, much of which could well consist of immigrants from the Shield and from what were formerly Catholic-majority areas within Ezpanna itself. Catholic disenfranchisement, though probably no longer overt, would remain pervasive and biting, and would yield a scenario where extreme inequality between Protestant and Catholic communities is accompanied by simmering tension and violence. As in Ireland's case, a colossal military presence would be needed (or, at least, would be perceived by those in power as necessary) to maintain control.

Madagascar would, likewise, be treated very much as a colony by the Basque state, euphemisms notwithstanding, any gestures meant to suggest democracy or autonomy being very much cosmetic in nature. An armed insurrection at some level seems guaranteed, especially with Beddgelert nearby, and this would also call for a substantial commitment of troops.

More detail is called for, of course.

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Depkazia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Nov 15, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Depkazia » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:41 pm

If there is still room for a man and his hippo in the new modern world, Chingiz should like to return to his roots, in northwestern Kazakhstan.

The provinces of Aktobe, West Kazakhstan, Atyrau, and Mangystau cover 736,241 square kilometres and house 2,568,391 prospective Chingizid subjects (as of 2013, and probably now some more).

The territory also covers the Tengiz and Kashagan petrochemical fields, together containing tens of billions of barrels of crude oil (of which not all is easily recoverable) along with associated natural gas. There is yet more oil to be had in Aktobe, along with copper, chromite, and phosphorite, while in Mangystau there is uranium.

This Depkazia would essentially see Chingiz as a state-in-being.

The Grand Host may still have existed, if Chrin wants some raiding action in his past, but now two or three million Depkazis don't seem quite such a menace as they did when there were only four or five million Russians.

I'll add more when my ear isn't being talked off. So much for the weekend break.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:37 pm

Depkazia wrote:If there is still room for a man and his hippo in the new modern world, Chingiz should like to return to his roots, in northwestern Kazakhstan.

The provinces of Aktobe, West Kazakhstan, Atyrau, and Mangystau cover 736,241 square kilometres and house 2,568,391 prospective Chingizid subjects (as of 2013, and probably now some more).

The territory also covers the Tengiz and Kashagan petrochemical fields, together containing tens of billions of barrels of crude oil (of which not all is easily recoverable) along with associated natural gas. There is yet more oil to be had in Aktobe, along with copper, chromite, and phosphorite, while in Mangystau there is uranium.

This Depkazia would essentially see Chingiz as a state-in-being.

The Grand Host may still have existed, if Chrin wants some raiding action in his past, but now two or three million Depkazis don't seem quite such a menace as they did when there were only four or five million Russians.

I'll add more when my ear isn't being talked off. So much for the weekend break.

All hail His Rotundity, Lord of the Steppe, Procurer of Peculiar Hippopotami, Dean Martin enthusiast, Champion Bird Thrower, and one hell of a strange guy, Chingiz! Yes, there is always room for Chingiz. Welcome to Asia again! :D

The Crooked Beat wrote:To begin with, I'll happily sign off on E-P's proposed alterations.

Secondly, as I've recently mentioned on discord, I'd like, if there are no objections, to add Madagascar and much of Morocco to Ezpanna.

The Moroccan regions in question are:
-L'Oriental: 2,314,346 people
-Fes-Meknes: 4,236,892 people
-Rabat-Sale-Kenitra: 4,580,866 people
-Beni Mellal-Khenifra: 2,520,776 people
-Casablanca-Settat: 6,861,739 people
(20,514,619 people in total)

Plus Madagascar (26,262,313 people), this would bring Ezpanna's total population to 100,426,217 people, or 99,858,815 people if Western Sahara is omitted. Tanger-Tetouan remains available, and I would encourage a Walmingtonian presence as a means of adding a bit of depth to the position at Gibraltar, as would the remainder of southern Morocco and Western Sahara, as this will provide any future claimant in Algeria with access to the Atlantic.

While, obviously, this almost doubles Ezpanna's population, my intent is for the Basque state to face a scenario where its resources, particularly its coercive resources, are taxed proportionally. Basque Morocco, which I'll provisionally call Valentia after one of the Roman-era settlements, potentially acts as a kind of Ireland to Ezpanna's Britain, simultaneously a rallying-point for the nationalist right and a permanent headache for Basque officialdom. Any pre-modern Valentia would have been linked to the Iberian world, and would undoubtedly have played an important role in Iberian history, though, as with the peninsula as a whole, the (Iberian) reformation may well have transformed matters. Valentia's local political arrangements could have been fractured by religious strife, a process subsequently leading to a series of murderous onslaughts from the Basque commonwealth and ultimate, if frequently challenged, conquest. From the 1700s onward, Valentia's political development would have been shaped by conflict between a ruling minority of both native and Basque-immigrant protestants, empowered by the Basque conquest, and a majority, or at least plurality, Catholic population, much of which could well consist of immigrants from the Shield and from what were formerly Catholic-majority areas within Ezpanna itself. Catholic disenfranchisement, though probably no longer overt, would remain pervasive and biting, and would yield a scenario where extreme inequality between Protestant and Catholic communities is accompanied by simmering tension and violence. As in Ireland's case, a colossal military presence would be needed (or, at least, would be perceived by those in power as necessary) to maintain control.

Madagascar would, likewise, be treated very much as a colony by the Basque state, euphemisms notwithstanding, any gestures meant to suggest democracy or autonomy being very much cosmetic in nature. An armed insurrection at some level seems guaranteed, especially with Beddgelert nearby, and this would also call for a substantial commitment of troops.

More detail is called for, of course.


Sure, why not.

Europe - Prussia wrote:Hello there! So, I saw my name mentioned, plus I wish to make some adjustements to my claim:

Chemaki wrote: (...) I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different) (...)


As I've said before, I'm keeping history before Napoleon as closely as possible to our history, so a rump Roman State on Greece during the middle ages is totally possible, until it is eventually carved out by the italian thalassocracies or something along those lines brings its end.

Chemaki wrote: (...) I do agree with you about the difficulty of calculating Turkey, though. That is a nightmare. But, at the end of the day, I don't want to take the whole thing. Romnika was never intentended to have any part in Europe, and whilst it's meant to be a distant offshoot of some old Byzantine or Roman Empire, it was never intended to be a direct successor (so I don't want to touch the Bosphorous). I thought that claiming was much as I did, it would leave 51 million people for sizable Greek/Turkish claim if someone wanted to go for that, but it does seem a little unlikely. I might throw E-P a message and see if he's interested in taking European Turkey and the Western Coast of Asian Turkey and I'd snag up the rest Anatolia - the way, it's still a ballache to calculate like any split Turkey claim, but once it's sorted, it's sorted (until either Romnika or the Latin Empire CTE's).


Personally, I'm not that interested in adding more people to my claim, especially that many: for example, Istambul has 14 million people, more than Greece; more than anything, I don't want to reach the 200 million mark. We can hash out something of course; alternatively, I have no problems in giving up Greece if someone wants to create a Greek/Byzantine/Ottoman claim or Beddgelert wants to return to the Balkans.

---

Finally, like Mari and Apilonia, I would like to make some minor adjustements to my claim: I'd like to drop the french overseas territories, with the exception of Guadeloupe, Martinique and Mayotte, and add to my claim Andorra, the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, and Libya.

My reasoning is quite simple: when I claimed the french overseas territories I did it for purely practical purposes, as I needed a place that worked as a spaceport and a nuclear test site, and out of lazyness, as the CIA factbook already had the calculations of the population done (Metropolitan France + islands). However, after reading about those territories, and that only Guiana wasn't dependant on Metropolitan France, I ultimately realized that Chrin was right about far-flung colonies. Libya on the other hand is much more closer, is mostly desert (so no problems about nuclear tests) and it can work as an spaceport, not as good as French Guiana, but its on the same latitude as Cape Canaveral, so its feasible. As for Guadeloupe, Martinique and Mayotte, I'd like to keep them for the intrigue of course.

Jersey and Guernsey is for a more logical reason, as they are closer to my claim than any potential claim on the Britain, while Andorra is to fill a hole, because if I'm not mistaken TCB never claimed it.

So, counting only Metropolitan France, plus Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, Andorra, Jersey, Guernsey and Libya the grand total would be 163,892,305; a plus of 3 millon.

Metropolitan France: 62,814,233
Italy: 62,402,659
Switzerland: 8,403,994
Austria: 8,859,449
Slovenia: 2,102,678
Mónaco: 39,000
Liechtenstein: 39,137
Vatican City: 1,000
San Marino: 34,232
Malta: 457,267
Greece: 10,607,051
Libya: 6,890,535
Mayotte: 223,765
Martinique: 376,480
Guadeloupe: 395,700
Jersey: 101,073
Guernsey: 67,052
Andorra: 77,000

Total: 163,892,305

Fine by me.

Nacrad wrote:The South Chinese Republic is formed after the fall of the PRC due to incessant civil wars, and encompasses the Hakka and Yue peoples residing in what we now know as Guangdong, Hong Kong, Macau and the southern part of Jiangxi.

I will claim the territory that is Guangdong Province, Ganzhou prefecture, Hong Kong and Macau.


Hello! Please take a moment and read the opening post in this thread and check through some of our applications to see what it is we're looking for from potential applicants. Since there isn't a PRC in AMW, it wouldn't have fallen. There's no history attached to any land that is vacant allowing potentials to give birth to the claim as they see it without having to really fear the rewriting of any history both for you or for us.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:08 pm

Right, so it appears we've lost Marimaia (CariCon) again. So the claim will be vacated the next map update. I'm still waiting for any discussed land grabs claims for current members to be finalized before I update. If you're good to go, then great. If not, get it posted on this thread before Friday 12:01AM US Eastern Daylight Time. I will post the map then and you'll have to wait until I get another one done :P
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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The Crooked Beat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 651
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:17 pm

First of all, a hearty and unequivocal, albeit undoubtedly redundant, endorsement of Depkazia's return! An AMW without Chingiz can scarcely be imagined! (And he would probably agree!)

Secondly, if there are no objections, I suppose I'll sign off on my proposed additions, though if it isn't too annoying I'd also like to relinquish Mauritius. Saxemberg, after all, demonstrated in memorable fashion just how rich and interesting even a tiny nation can be, and it feels a bit unfair of me to string it along as part of a far larger Ezpanna when it could enjoy a far more rewarding (virtual) existence under a different flag. Admittedly, this kind of reasoning is hardly consistent, and could well (and rightly!) be applied to the whole claim, though with the entirety of Madagascar now (provisionally) Basque, Mauritius strikes me as excessive.

Anyhow, thanks in advance, and if there are any questions, uncertainties, or lingering doubts, please don't hesitate to let me know! I will address all inquiries to the best of my ability, such as it is.

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Beddgelert
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Beddgelert » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:37 pm

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but this is it, now. Sorted.

I went through the process of breaking-down new South/Central Asian BG, working out what the political and demographic map would be, sat back, and thought, "I'm never going to play this to its full potential, am I?"

So stuff it, I'm going back to the start. Europe again, I've explained it at length on the IRC, but it's essentially the way BG was at the start of AMW V2.0.

Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania.

60,860,299 people over 706,725 square kilometres.

Most of the claim will constitute the Commonwealth of Soviet Socialist Republics (CSSR), a Geletian-majority state of nine Soviet Republics based upon traditional tribal nations, with a combined population of 52,796,967.

Three nominally independent satellite states will exist in the west, covering Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina, with 8,063,332 people between them.

The Dalmatían People's Republic will be a Greek-majority state in Adriatic Croatia, with >1.4 million people.

The Yugoslav Soviet Republic will be a Slav-majority state in Continental Croatia and Federation Bosnia and Herzegovina, with >5.1 million people including Russian revolutionary exiles and their dependents in many positions of influence and privilege.

The Dindarii Democratic Republic will be a Celtic-majority state in Republika Srpska and the Brčko District, with ~1.3 million people, including a minority of local Celts and a majority of recent settlers whom the Dindarii and Soviet authorities alike will insist have been there for generations, as well as a formerly greater local Slav minority. This will have been torn from what is now the Yugoslav SR after a mid/late C20th civil war in which the Geletians involved themselves, and which they may indeed have instigated.

The CSSR will also be informally and historically known as Geletia (some Celtic chauvinists may latterly include Dindariion under that blanket), and it is possible that the whole claim may be called Beddgelert, as I think perhaps that may be the name of a location -perhaps in Dindariion- at which an agreement were signed, formally aligning the CSSR, DPR, YSR, and DDR for mutual defence, commerce, et cetera. A Pact of Beddgelert, or such like.

The CSSR is going to be hyper-militaristic, essentially Double North Korea! but with slightly better farmland and a less pancaked infrastructural foundation. No longer a super-power, but definitely a geo-political meddler. It will still seek to support revolutionaries in other people's empires, and I'm open to discussions on such matters, amongst others.

I do think that this is the one, for me. No point changing just for change's sake, or because everyone else is and ooh, maybe I can upgrade. Nah, the Geletians gonna... Gel...ate...?
So True! So Brave! A Lamb At Home - A Lion In The Chase!

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:59 pm

I've had some ideas that I was thinking of putting into Russia, but have opted instead to divest it into a separate claim. A small Caribbean playground for my wildest ideas, basically.

Reino de Puerto Rico y las Islas Vírgenes
Kingdom of Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands


Population: ‭3,330,366‬
Puerto Rico: 3,163,694
US Virgin Islands: 104,914
British Virgin Islands: 31,758
Area:
Total: 9,603.4 sq km
Land: 9455.3 sq km
Water: 148.1 sq km (1.5%)
Founding: 25 December 1500
Colony of Ezpanna: 25 December 1500
Independence: 7 April 1521
Kingdom Established: 19 April 1521
Treaty of San Juan: 30 June 1533
Capital: San Juan, Puerto Rico
Coordinates: 18° 24′ 23″ N, 66° 3′ 50″ W
Municipality: 395,326
Density: 3,187/km2
Urban: 2,148,346
Metro: 2,350,126
Government
Type: Absolute Monarchy
Head of State: King Alejandro II
Full name: Alejandro Rodrigo Felipe de Borja y Trastámara
Head of Government: King Alejandro II
Legislature: Bicameral Parliament
Lower House: Congress of Commons (Cámara de los Comunes)
Upper House: House of Lords (Casa de Señores)

History in Very Short
Founded on Christmas Day in 1500 in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Virgin Islands founded a week later. Colony of Ezpanna (the Basque State, or whatever moniker it likes) until 7 April 1521 when it broke away during the Ezpanna Reformation. The Kingdom was established on 19 April 1521 when Juan de Borja (not that one) was nominated King of Puerto Rico. Virgin Islands were added two months later. In 1533 a treaty between Ezpanna and Puerto Rico was signed granting the new-found kingdom a protectorate type of status in which Ezpanna could have unlimited fishing rights while the kingdom itself would be left to be autonomous. During the next 300 years, a few attempts were made by Ezpanna to regain the territory, but none were successful. Recent years have seen no attempts to regain the territory, perhaps owing to the rise of Apilonia. The modern kingdom is a bastion for tourists, maintains the Catholic Church as its official religion of state (though, you may not be surprised to see they're hardly devout), and has recently seen its new monarch, King Alejandro II, ascend the throne at the age of 19 just 2 months shy of his 20th birthday in 2020.

Economy in Very Very Short
The Kingdom offers itself as a tax haven for the rich and famous with one of the world's lowest tax rates, though import duties and incorporation fees help make up some of the tax money needed along with the normal tourism taxes. In spite of over fishing by Ezpanna, the Kingdom has build a burgeoning fish farming industry to assist it in not only feeding its population, but exporting some to the wider world market, though it's assumed even those are bought by the maritime empires still wanting to destroy entire ecosystems for the sake of national dishes. The kingdom's main money maker outside of its tax haven system is tourism. Overall the people are relatively okay with an overall GDP per capita of $30,326.99 and a national GDP of $101 Billion, though much of this wealth is in the hands of an aristocratic class even though feudal titles have long gone out of style. Gambling is also legal and many of the nation's top casinos are located in San Juan.

King Alejandro II, in a nutshell
Born: 17 May 2000, Reign: 20 March 2020 - Present
Having a jovial disposition, His Royal Majesty, Alejandro II, has been gifted the moniker 'Alejandro the Happy' by many of his subjects due to his frequent smiling and laughing. One of the youngest kings in history of Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, Alejandro ascended after his father die from complications from surgery. In his brief time as King, Alejandro has opted to delegate responsibility to members of his privy council in order to entertain the young men and women of the aristocracy well into the late hours of the day. It is said if he had not been born to be king, he would have become a dancer for as Prince of Vieques, he would often succumb to the melodic Caribbean rhythms and dance the night away with the daughters and sons of the elite of society.
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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AMW Applications
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jul 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby AMW Applications » Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:52 pm

It should be noted that Depkazia contacted me regarding his claim and would like to expand slightly to what's already been posted on here to include Kyzylorda region of Kazakhstan and Karakalpakstan Republic of Uzbekistan.

All claims above this post as listed in this thread have been updated on Page 1, Post 2 of this thread. If you have any changes not listed in this thread but have otherwise discussed elsewhere and wish to make them official, please place them down below for them to be added. The Discord moves too fast (believe it or not) to use as a good place to search out changes.
27
Since it appears that almost all AMW members have finally rebooted and settled (for the most part), a new map will be generated and put in place Monday 27 April 2020. If you want your addition/subtraction/switch/etc... to be on that map, please make sure it is posted below.

Thank you! And we can officially open this thread for new members once the new map is posted on Monday.

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The Crooked Beat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 651
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:56 am

One very minor note, I had been hoping to include Madagascar as well in an expanded Basque state (albeit as a poorly-integrated colony), and drop Reunion in the process, though if there are any objections this is all, naturally, completely negotiable.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:03 pm

The Crooked Beat wrote:One very minor note, I had been hoping to include Madagascar as well in an expanded Basque state (albeit as a poorly-integrated colony), and drop Reunion in the process, though if there are any objections this is all, naturally, completely negotiable.

Apologies. I thought I had it already listed in there. I'll fix it.
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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AMW Applications
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 55
Founded: Jul 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby AMW Applications » Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:04 pm

The Crooked Beat wrote:One very minor note, I had been hoping to include Madagascar as well in an expanded Basque state (albeit as a poorly-integrated colony), and drop Reunion in the process, though if there are any objections this is all, naturally, completely negotiable.

Fixed it.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:29 am

https://i.imgur.com/xDpxf83.png

That's the link to the map. As always look at it and please ensure your territories are the way you want them.
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Mon May 04, 2020 1:32 pm

Right, so I've been in a convo in the Discord and have opted to make the following changes:

Dropping Asian Russia (Ural, Siberian, and Far Eastern Federal Districts of Russia)
Adding rest of Ukraine except a small slice of Odessa Oblast south of the Dniester Estuary that someone else might want and makes more logical sense for them to have

This would work out to a net increase of total population to around 4 million people to essentially 169 million. Also the area would drop from over 17 million sq km to almost over 5 million sq km. Hefty diet that!

This is what it would look like on a map:
Image

And I'm officially entering this as the new look for the claim. Really, it's easier to handle, I still have the Russian kit in total to keep and disperse around AMW. It means bordering the CSR, but I doubt we're allowing much to flow through that border.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Mon May 04, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14668
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed May 06, 2020 10:35 am

I have an idea. Before I had two maps: what the claims map looked like as it was IRL with our claims colored in and one where I removed the internal borders and showed what our AMW nations looked like on the map to give it a bit more of a separation from real life. I want to do that again, but this time I want to include internal borders of your nations! In order to do that, I need to have them listed and the RL parts that make them up (like if you combined North and South Carolina into one province or state or you have multiple nations under your belt and you've blended them in various ways to form new political entities, etc...). It doesn't have to happen today or anytime soon, but as they do I want to fill it in. So as time goes on and you sort that you, drop me the list here so I can fill it in on the map. I should note that I also will plop your national capital city on the map, so if you're using a RL city without changing its name or changing its name, let me know where it is (it's RL location) and what you call it so I can also include that.

Thanks in advance!
Being oppressed means prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control. Inconvenienced means trouble or difficulty caused to one's personal requirements or comfort. Stay at Home orders are not methods of oppression, just inconvenience.

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Beddgelert
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 487
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Beddgelert » Wed May 06, 2020 1:58 pm

*Crashes through the wall to immediately make Chrin regret offering...*


The full extent of my claim will be known as the Saimonan League.

The largest part of it will be the Commonwealth of Soviet Socialist Republics (CSSR), informally and formerly known as Geletia. This covers Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania, Kosovo, Serbia, and Montenegro.

There will also be:

The Democratic Republic of Tulgary in the Czech Republic.

The Democratic Socialist Republic of Cotinitra in Slovakia.

The Dindarii Democratic People's Republic (AKA Dindarion) in Republika Srpska and Brčko District.

The Yugoslav Soviet Republic (AKA Yugoslavia) in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Continental Croatia.

The Dalmatían People's Socialist Republic (AKA Dalmatia) in Adriatic Croatia.

The Socialist Union of Perfeddwlad in Moldova, Pridnestrovie, and Budjak.


If you wish to further break that down, the CSSR comprises nine semi-autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics, mostly following the national borders of the real-world nations contained, with the notable exception of Romania, wherein Transylvania (Nord-vest, Vest, and Centru Development Regions) is separate from Wallachia-Moldavia.

Additionally, Perfeddwlad comprises three semi-autonomous People's Republics, one each in Moldova-proper, Pridnestrovie, and Budjak.


The capital de jure of the CSSR (and de facto of the Saimonan League) is Akink, at Budapest.

The capital of Perfeddwlad is Ffynnonnewydd, at Chisinau.
The capital of Tulgary is Grestovar, at Olomouc.
The capital of Cotinitra is Nitra, at... Nitra.
The capital of Dindarion is Cwmbarwn, at Banja Luka.
The capital of Yugoslavia is Vrhbosna, at Sarajevo.
The capital of Dalmatia is Tharsaticon, at Rijeka.
So True! So Brave! A Lamb At Home - A Lion In The Chase!

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Dra-pol
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Dra-pol » Sun May 31, 2020 11:35 am

Discussions with TCB have lead to a tentative resolution to the Moroccan question, with Tanger-Tetouan-Al Hoceima ((3,556,729 residents)) proposed to me as an addition to the Walmingtonian Empire. It is likely to have been settled by early Walmingtonian navigators and reinforced by the nascent Empire at least nominally in response to Berber piracy. It may well have played a part in Walmington's later capture of Gibraltar ((Mt. Godfrey, rather)).

I gather that Ceuta is Apilonian, while Melilla ((86,384 residents)) and the uninhabited Plazas de soberanía remain of uncertain status. I would be happy to incorporate them into Walmingtonian North Africa, unless, of course, another claimant has a better use for them.

This leads me back to the expansion of Walmingtonian involvement in the Med, which I had abandoned only because the likes of Malta, the Greek islands, and Cyprus were already claimed, as had been Suez in earlier versions of AMW.

I am interested in adding the Tunisian island of Djerba ((163,726 residents)) as the last mid-sea remnant of Walmingtonian power en rotue to Suez. I tire of the uncertainty over the canal zone, and propose to take it for Walmington.

My suggestion is that the Egyptian governorates of Port Said, Ismailia, and Suez (((2,827,499) residents)) would come under Walmingtonian control, with the canal itself an internationally recognised neutral zone under Walmingtonian protection. I was not going to incorporate Sinai, but it seems unlikely to be claimed by another, so I suggest that it was taken by the Walmingtonians to provide a buffer between the canal and a likely less than well-regarded Romnikan neighbour. It adds in any case only 561,000 people ((for an Egyptian total of 3,388,499)). Perhaps a war to settle the matter ((a Suez crisis that played out less favourably for Romnika than for Egypt?)) ought to be written into our shared histories.




I am trying now to find for Dra-pol a place in the re-ordered world.

Without the Moluccas, Sulawesi just does not seem likely to keep Walmington interested enough to fight on there.

Perhaps the major factor leading me to eschew a return to otherwise-appealing Myanmar is the desire to keep some territory east of Singapore, which I wish to retain strategic importance to the Empire. I briefly considered New Guinea. It quite well suits Drapoel isolationism, and does contain some significant natural resources, and as a bonus I could have siphoned off some of the Islands Region to represent something of an Australia/New Zealand in the Walmingtonian world. But it doesn't seem quite right, does it?

Borneo must be the obvious choice. I was interested a year ago, but parts of the island were already claimed. It has the location, the resources, even the fauna relevant to Drapoel culture, and the interior at least has a record of isolationism that could translate well enough to our world. If nobody objects, I think that I will shift Dra-pol there. Snakes and wildcats and oil and timber, huzzah!

I would still quite like to have an Aus/NZ stand-in for the Walmosphere. Not wanting to go the whole hog and actually claim those countries, with the better part of thirty million people between them, the best I have come up with is Timor, and the main barrier is perhaps in explaining why so many Walmingtonian settlers might have been drawn there. I thought perhaps that a small number of settlers went to the Moluccas when they were at some point perhaps wholly or partly under Walmingtonian control, and then fled when the balance of power shifted to the Basques, while other settlers fled Dra-pol. These would mostly have been relatively wealthy plantation owners, and few in number, but I picture them perhaps using their wealth to advertise and to sponsor subsequent waves of immigration, hoping to build up a base of white, Godfreyite power in the region from where to later press Walmingtonian interests in the Moluccas and Dra-pol.

I would like to hear any thoughts on this last part especially!

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Chemaki
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Corporate Police State

Postby Chemaki » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:50 am

Hooray! Finally, a colonial empire who wants to try their luck in the Middle East. As far as Romnikan-Walmington relations go and the whole story behind the Suez, I guess you're planning to have the canal built around the same time as IRL (mid-19th century?). Romnika around that time was a veritable client state, I'm thinking some Greek Catholic dynasty backed by European traders, local Greeks and Romnikan oligarchs rose to power in the early 19th century and opened up Romnika to exploitation from the West. Given the toadying nature of this reigime and their desparation to keep the economy afloat when faced with competition with the industrialised world, they could have owned the Sinai peninsula and sold it off at a ridiculously low price to Walmington in the hopes that some of the trade income from a Suez canal would rub off to Romnika. That would be a great injury to national pride and, much like the Qing concessions IRL, erode the legitimacy of the Greek Romnikan government and eventually pave their way for their collapse. All the while, Walmington is happily making bank off of the Suez trade, with their only concern in Romnika being how to snap up their newly-discovered oil deposits in the 1910s.

(Going beyond the Suez and just brainstorming a bit here...)
By this point, Romnika is on the verge of collapse with various democratic, socialist, monarchist, separatist and communist factions jostling to take over the rump Greek government, and the government is more than happy to give exclusive prospecting and drilling rights on huge parcels of land in return for loans, guns and ammunition. The deals become so one-sided that negotiations probably reach silly levels, such as the Romnikan government proposing to sell exclusive prospecting rights over the entire (unclaimed) parts of the country to the highest bidder, leading to a free-for-all where a thousands of square miles of land are sold off for a few guns (and later, just ammunition) to arms companies, who then sell on the rights to oil films for bargain prices whilst still making a huge profit. Everyone wins, apart from the Romnikans who desperately hope to see a bit of that trickle-down cash. The investments start off insanely profitable for the first couple of decades, but as the Romnikan government loses its foothold in the East and local Communist factions and rogue generals encroach on the oilfields, foreign companies start having to hire their own mercenaries to deal with the locals. By the late 1920s county-sized fiefdoms exist over major oilfields, with their parent oil company policing, defending and perhaps even governening the region with the help of Romnikan defectors, rogue armies and overseas mercenaries. It all gets a bit anarcho-capitalist in a way that even Banana Republics would balk at, and the oil boom accelerates even further. It becomes such a recipe for success that it becomes replicated dozens of times across the country.

The Recipe for Success: Oil Baron Edition
1. Get a dirt cheap land contract from the Romnikan government, or from an arms company who sold a few guns to the government to fight sepratists and rebels in exchange for the contract.
2. Buy firearms from an arms company (maybe the same one who even sold you the land) to arm the very same sepratists and rebels the government is fighting.
3. Alternatively, if you're feeling fabulous and want to be a big spender, buy a pre-made army led by a rogue general, complete with chain of command, infantry, support, artillery, and motorised divisions. They won't break the bank - just promise to arm them, and let them terrorise the locals and extort them for food and payment.
4. No need to pay them, just continue to supply them with guns, and let them have free reign in your patch of land as long as they protect your investments and do not interfere with operations.
5. Bring in your own mercenaries and security personnel - people you can trust to protect upper management - to co-ordinate with the new army you just bought a few weeks/months ago (for the price of a few guns and bullets).
6. Put some popular local administrators into power, or some sympathetic (or easily bribed) bureaucrats to help run the civilian side of things, and smooth over the whole 'being occupied by a private military' deal.
7. Congratulations! You have your own quasi-independent state. Build on oil rig. Or five. Or ten. Safety regulations? Labour costs? You make the rules here, and with the local economy in tatters after years of fighting, the locals are grateful to work for you at slave wages (or even as literal slaves, if you ask your army to be brutal enough).
8. With your army the best-equipped, and thus most loyal, in the area, you have brought peace and stability to the region. The Romnikan government wearily thanks you, grateful you brought stability to the region (by effectively annexing it) and the other oil fiefdoms are happy to cooperate with you to control the local rabble in exchange for mutual profit.
9. Crack down on any Communist insurrections once in a while - these are the pesky rebels who can't be bought out easily.
10. Profit! And by profit, it's unlikely there's any other point in history where you'll be able to make such a huge profit margin off of oil.


The bubble bursts spectacularly in the early 1940s, as it turns out that arming the very seperatists that oppose the government you bought land from is far from sustainable. Since prospecting and extracting rights are bundled together, several companies buy parcels of land only to realise that they contain barely any oil at all, and whilst established companies are raking in ludicrous amounts of money, they're starting to butt heads with their own armies of locals who actually live in the region and would prefer to have a functioning government. All the while, the Communists are uniting, absorbing local movements and defectors, and their constant attacks are starting to make the business of being a literal oil baron too risky. Oh, and the actual Romnikan government collapses around then, with the Greek monarchy being replaced by a proto-democratic state in the Levant which the Communists immediately contest for power. With a long and bloody civil war on the horizon, most oil baronies decide to cut their losses, taking their huge stacks of cash and abandoning their oilfields, governments and armies. After a few more years of anarchy and infighting, the Communists with their huge public support from opposing the oil baronies eventually secure the area, flush with weapons and more than able to take on the richer, democratic and internationally open democratic Levantine state.

Anyway, long detour over, back to the Sinai. So this Levantine republic would happily acknowledge Walmington's claims to the Sinai - they're in the business of building friendships and trade to sort out the mess left over by the old Greek reigime, and defend themselves from the Communist threat in the East. For a few decades things seem to go well - the Levantine republic fights against the Communists and loses some land in a few wars, but the core of the Levant is still thriving, and the Mediterranian is safe. Eventually though, the Levantine republic devolves into a one-party state as its leaders try to hold onto power, keep the nation stable and rally support for reconquest of the East and the reunification of Romnika. Reunification happens in the mid 1980s - with the unfortunate caveat that it happens through a huge Communist invasion of the Levant, as the Levant itself revolts against its own one-party government. Finally, after over a century of foreign exploitation, internal conflict, revolution and civil war, Romnika decides to accept Communist rule - partly because millions of Catholics, Muslims, Greeks and other foreign residents are told to convert to the native Cathar Christian faith (whose church backed the early Communist reigime and has been an integrate part ever since) and integrate, or be purged. Naturally this doesn't go over too well, and a rump state from the Levantine republic forms in the 'Rainbow Revolution', where a constellation of various minorities, anti-communists and new democrats unite in a last stand against the Communists. Internationally it looks like there might finally be a chance at a truly democratic, liberal, multiparty Romnikan state, but after fierce fighting in the southern Levant the Communists prevail.

This is where our histories would intertwine again - maybe Walmington sees the Rainbow Revolution as a final chance to defeat the Communists and create a Walmington-friendly Romnika, and decides to arm the rag-tag rebels, or perhaps it opens its border to swathes of Catholic (or a smaller trickle of Protestant) refugees who have been expelled from their homes by the Communists. Either way, it's no secret that the Communists don't recognise Walmington's 100-year long claim over the Sinai, both for ideological (not bowing to Western powers) and strategic (more influence over the Suez) reasons. No surprise then that in the late 1980s, after the bloody conflict against the Rainbow Revolution, the united Communist Romnika keeps its momentum and pours its troops into the Sinai, though the military is running on fumes at this point and hopes to score a quick and decisive victory. The speed and scale of the invasion throws Walmington off-guard, but they were expecting a conflict with the Romnikan Communists and quickly dispatched reinforcements to repel the invasion, finally breaking the Romnikan Communist military who have been on an unrelenting and exhausting military push for the past decade. The Communists realise they are way over their heads, that their enemies are not guerillas or a struggling rump state and have a modern navy and air force, and after being pushed back to Jerusalem they sign a treaty with Walmington, relinquishing their claims over the Sinai and establishing the Gaza strip as an autonomous territory for Catholic refugees who have been expelled from Romnika.
Last edited by Chemaki on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:13 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Walmington on Sea
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:27 am

Very interesting and involved, sir!

I think that I can agree to the narrative as outlined.

It is likely that Walmingtonian forces are engaged not far away during the middle of the last century, trying to prevent the Communist take-over of the Saimonas ((though Walmingtonian focus would have been on Greece above the rest, and that seems to have only half-worked for the Empire, Greece being saved from Communism only to give herself over to Latinism, which is not nearly so menacing to the proper order of things but is still not quite cricket)). Perhaps by the 1980s those engagements were in the past, just distant enough that the Empire is not labouring under the weariness of unbroken warfare, but also recent enough that many senior officers have extensive operational experience in the Mediterranean theatre, and any mooted post-conflict defence cuts are yet to bite.

The Walmingtonians would certainly have been happy to accept Protestant refugees, and likely to have keenly recruited from their ranks for the intelligence services, propaganda efforts, and indeed border troops who may feel they have more than most to lose by rolling-over for or running away from any future Romnikan invasion. Putting Catholics on the border works rather well, too.

Once engaged in any conflict in the Middle East, having recently failed either to completely avert the entrenchment of Communism in Europe or to bring Greece into the Godfreyite fold, the Empire would be quite desperate to see it through to a conclusion that could at least be presented as satisfactory. The last Walmo-Romnik conflict might represent an opportunity for closure in a hitherto losing battle against the ingress of the red tide, the Walmingtonian public no doubt being ready to believe that the CSSR and CPRD were both behind the trouble-making in Romnika, and hungry for a gotcha! moment.
I shall now repeat the above paragraph, louder, so that you may hear it over the sound of TSR-2s ripping sonic booms across the Sinai.
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The Crooked Beat
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Posts: 651
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:20 pm

Hello everyone!

A Walmingtonian presence at and around Tangier certainly strikes me as a worthwhile addition to our coalescing Mediterranean scene, and the territorial additions, as outlined, have my full approval. With Iberia foundering in a sea of violent religious fanaticism for, potentially, several centuries, it seems likely that a well-ordered and resourceful, outward-oriented maritime state might have established itself in the region fairly readily, and although I have not yet (of course) turned to the task of assembling a historical timeline, in my current imaginings, I would assume that Walmingtonian Tangier (if you'll excuse the placeholder name!) precedes the Basque invasion of Northwest Africa by a comfortable margin. No doubt the unstable protestant regime in what is now Ezpanna would have appreciated the presence nearby of another avowedly anti-Catholic power for much of its early history, inevitable subsequent disputes and difficulties notwithstanding.

Spain's Plazas de Soberania do not figure into the Basque state's territory as of now, so with the aforementioned exception of Apilonian Ceuta, they remain, unless I've forgotten about a previous claimant, available for whoever would like them. Walmingtonian ownership seems like a logical consequence of regional history, and from my perspective it would be a welcome development.

Walmingtonian control over the Suez Canal zone and its immediate environs is also an appealing proposition, and Djerba makes very good sense as an outpost along the sea route between Suez and Gibraltar.

The relocation of Dra-pol to Borneo also seems like a perfectly sensible course, and that vast, forest-covered island with its inaccessible interior is undoubtedly rich in possibilities (among much else!). I could perhaps even see the Basques chipping-in to help with the infamous decolonization war, anxious to preserve fuel supplies from Tarakan and Balikpapan at a moment when not-altogether-friendly elements were poised to take over Romnika's oil fields.

I'd be perfectly happy to see Timor added to the Walmingtonian Empire as well, and although I don't yet have an especially clear idea of Basque imperial history in the region, some conflict or series of conflicts between Walmingtonian and Basque interests in Southeast Asia would seem inevitable. The first established Basque rulers in the Spice islands would undoubtedly have sought to expel any rival Christian elements, by no means Catholics only, so there's definitely scope for a Godfreyite exodus from the Moluccas and this might well have included, given the era's high religious fervor and the sheer distances involved, a disproportionate share of deeply-committed believers. Perhaps intensive European settlement on Timor started out with the importation of indentured or convict laborers from Europe at the plantation owners' urging, intermingled with some proportion of more or less voluntary arrivals. Coercion might help to overcome Timor's presumably limited appeal, relative to places like New Zealand, South Australia, or Patagonia at least, for emigrants from Northern Europe, while a non-native population replenished at regular intervals by prisoners could be less susceptible to catastrophic crashes from tropical disease. It all really depends on timing and the desired demographics, of course, and if the process of population growth in the Walmingtonian home islands at all resembles that of real-life Ireland, there are millions of prospective immigrants to account for.

Romnika's difficult twentieth century also looks like an immensely interesting topic, and I can certainly see Basque elements, both private and semi-official, attempting to profit from Romnikan misfortune. The acquisition of oilfields and drilling rights might well have been treated as a strategic priority by maritime-focused Ezpanna, particularly at a moment when oil was beginning to supplant coal in ship propulsion. Basque involvement in the various Eastern Mediterranean crises might have paralleled that of Walmington, with bitterness over the loss of economic concessions leading to a number of unsuccessful military interventions, perhaps attempted through proxy elements for the most part, against the ascendant communists. The Basque government, suitably horrified at the prospect of a communist-controlled Suez Canal, would also have been prepared to offer Walmington considerable military help in the Sinai, if the outcome of that conflict was ever in doubt.

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Walmington on Sea
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:06 pm

I think I rather like how this may all work out. If only I had more time each day!

A 1980s Suez crisis: could it see Basque boots on Walmingtonian soil? Perhaps a relationship begun early in the second half of the century, when the Golden Cavalry of St. Aldhelm carried Basque boots to the Saimonas, then Dra-pol, then Suez?

I think that you are quite right to point to the utility of transported penal labour in the Timorese question.

In the Spice Islands, it perhaps does make sense to suggest that Walmingtonians established small private concerns there very early, only to be aped by Ezpanna taking a more straightforward colonial attitude. I suppose it would not necessarily need to be war so much as unfavourable legislation that drove them out, perhaps with their own would-be national protector distracted in Dra-pol.

We are, I fear, rather drifting back into discussion on the applications thread!
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The world continues to offer glittering prizes to those who have stout hearts and sharp swords.
-1st Earl of Birkenhead

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99papers
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Iansisle
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Postby Iansisle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:04 am

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