A Modern World (AMW) Applications Center

[The Kingdom of Apilonia]

I don't have any issues, it looks like a good concept.

I do have one question, were you planning to grab the Spanish territories in North Africa? I only ask because I'd been discussing in Discord with the others about maybe grabbing Ceuta, as an alterante to Gibralter, given my nation's reliance on trade a network of naval stations would have made sense.

Leaving Ceuta aside for a moment, I would like to add the Falklands and the British Indian Ocean Territory to my claim.

Due to the negliable population and GDP implications, I'll leave my figures as in the original application.

[Marimaia]

Hello everyone!

Significant developments currently underway will obviously require a more detailed response than this one, though if it isn't too little to count I'd at the very least like to declare (undoubtedly an over-grand word!) my continued interest in AMW. Gandvik, it appears, has missed the bus on this reboot, though of course that's no great loss!

Anyhow, the first idea for a new claim that springs to mind is a return to Iberia and the remainder of Spain, minus the Canary islands of course. I'd plan on repeating as many of Gandvik's qualities as practical, so this new Spain, which I'd probably try to give a predominantly Basque-Celtic population, would be a relatively turbulent society governed by a corporatist union of military, trade-union, and bureaucratic interests. Clearly a direct echo of the all-too-real evils of Francisco Franco is not desirable, so in my imagining this would steer much more closely to a Peronist course, authoritarian, certainly, and deeply corrupt, though not particularly violent and inclined to what is perhaps a dangerous leniency towards political opponents. More a problem of too little control, rather than too much. In place of RL Spain's high Catholicism I'd plan to substitute a deeply austere and Puritanical Calvinist-informed state church, theoretically supreme over a fractious mosaic of Christian and pre-Christian religions, many of which would stand to be insurgent in some fashion.

While this Spanish state would almost certainly be a heavily-militarized one, and probably a nuclear power, universal conscription and a high numerical strength would not, as in Gandvik, necessarily equal formidable power. Like in Gandvik, the mass of relatively poorly-equipped, indifferently-trained, and unmotivated national servicemen might well look upon the ideologically-pure elite formations as a more dangerous enemy than any prospective foreign power, while the highest level of military command would constitute a political arena in its own right.

A state-socialist economy would strongly emphasize export-oriented manufacturing, though GDP wouldn't exceed half of RL Spain's and might conceivably fall below that. All in all, a more dour, poorer, Protestant Spain, governed somewhat chaotically.

Above all, though, Ian definitely has veto power over this proposal. While I cannot for a moment pretend that I've ever been a model neighbor, and while I understand wholeheartedly if Ian would prefer not to repeat that dynamic, I do at least promise a degree of stability and a cooperative attitude with respect to historical matters and current relations. Indeed, this Basque-Calvinist Spain might, in my mind at least, provide Shieldian political forces across the spectrum with a useful rhetorical device, a looming foreign danger with a history of aggression yet whose clumsiness and internal divisions make it very much a paper tiger.

Some manner of colonial past would seem warranted, and a colonial present too, though as to exactly where, I'm not at all sure. Perhaps Western Sahara plus Mauritania, a handful of Indian Ocean islands, Reunion, certain of the French Antarctic Lands (which I've always found fascinating), and then the Maluku islands? Population would be Spain's 46 million (minus the Canaries) plus a colonial populace numbering in the region of six million.

Does this strike the involved parties as acceptable?

If Ian is okay with it then go for it

I will admit a little self-interest: as 'Caribbean guy' post-reboot, it would be nice if some of the Caribbean Confederation could have a Spanish colonial history similar to that they had in RL.

[Chrinthanium]

Chrin is going on an anti-imperialism tangent these days, so Chrin is less excited to see 'Maluku Islands' than anything else presented. If you're taking W. Sahara, might as well take Canary Islands as well, they're open. I'm failing to see the point of tacking some ditzy islands 10,000 miles away onto a claim. Protect trade, colonial presence... meh. It never works. It never generates the RP people think it will.

Anyway, I'm one voice of many. I return everyone back to their regularly scheduled Age of Empires.

Api.... Spain would include Melilla and Cueta as they are officially parts of Spain. Though, you two can sort that out.

TCB, looks good to me otherwise.

[Chrinthanium]

I should note at this point I am keeping tabs of everything posted here, officially, on the map. I haven't posted it yet, but I will post what we have in a few hours.

[Iansisle]

Sheesh, you move to the very edge of Europe trying to get away from a guy and look. TAKE A HINT!

Very very kidding of course. The only problem I ever had with neighboring Gandvik was the persistent feelings of inadequacy when it came to factbooking and theorycrafting. Plus I think the world absolutely needs authoritarian Basque Calvinist Spain. It's also going to solve some problems in my own backstory, assuming LRR is still willing to have a half-hearted reactionary invasion turned away a few years back by nee-dashing-young-general Ranalte, cementing him as the capital H type of Hero of the Revolution who would certainly never seize power in a coup.

Religion-wise things could get more complicated, as I had planned for a sort of lazy indulgent Catholic-but-don't-worry-about-it-too-much vibe for the Shield, opposed by the hyper reverent snake-handling speak-to-me-Jesus evangelical Movers. I can't imagine dour Calvinists would love either one of them.

Anyway, lots to discuss I'm sure. My time comes and goes so quickly it seems, but LRR you have earned my complete trust and I think you know the vibe I'm going for (even if this Shield is significantly richer and less disease-ridden than the previous one). In case I'm not able to respond quickly, please assume acquiesce to rather than rejection of any ideas you have for shared history or current relations!

[Europe - Prussia]

Hello!

I know its late, and this is far from complete (the government, culture and economy parts are missing), but I wanted to submit this before the deadline. So without further addo, here's my proposal for consideration:

Latin Alliance (LATAL)


Claim: France (including overseas territories except Saint Pierre and Miquelon and Reunion if it is claimed?), Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Vatican City, San Marino, Malta, Greece.
Population: 160,794,623

France: 67,848,156
Italy: 62,402,659
Switzerland: 8,403,994
Austria: 8,859,449
Slovenia: 2,102,678
Mónaco: 39,000
Liechtenstein: 39,137
Vatican City: 1,000
San Marino: 34,232
Malta: 457,267
Greece: 10,607,051

Demonym: Latin, Others (varies by nationality)
Capital: Geneva (de facto)
Government: Confederation
Grand Councillor of the Alliance (Head of State): Giovanni Fortuna
High Commissioner (Head of Government): Elisabetta Von Baltzer
Legislature: Alliance Parliament
GDP: $5,888,402 mill.
GDP per capita: $36,620
Currency: Latium



History

The history of the Latin Alliance runs almost parallel with ours, with the breaking point being Napoleon’s ascension to emperorship. There’s 2 points before Napoleon that deviates though: first, the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) is still formed, centered around France, but with the consequence that France is much more fragmented, like Germany before its unification, and with the efforts of the french king-emperors to centralize the state being somewhat ineffective. The other deviant point is centered on Switzerland: the Swiss Confederacy is still formed in 1291, but as an elective monarchy.

The rest play up as closely as possible to our history: internal strife everywhere, the emperor and pope fighting for every possible reason, the crown of the HRE goes hopping around dynasties until it falls on the Valois and Bourbon families, religious conflicts (there’s no Martin Luther, but John Calvin and Huldrych Zwingli are around), the spread of enlightenment, the french revolution (which kills the HRE, through the pope tries to keep it alive by crowning the king of Naples emperor, to no avail), the subsequent revolutionary wars, and finally Napoleon.

Unlike our history, Napoleon is able to keep himself in power until 1837, when he finally succumbed to stomach cancer. His son assumed the throne, but without Napoleon’s forceful personality and the ever-growing ambitions of Talleyrand and the imperial marshalls the french empire eventually collapses in 1848, starting a long period of instability; in the following years, until the XX century, governments of every flavor of the political spectrum would take power in France, only to collapse shortly thereafter.

It was following this chaos that a forerunner and antecedent to the modern Alliance was created; in 1855, the alpine states declared the creation of a customs union, followed by a mutual defense treaty in 1859, mostly as a response to increased hostilities of the King of Naples and Bourbon-led France. This led to the creation of 3 power blocks in the region, locked in constant conflict: France, which would be led by royalty until the 1890’s, Naples, which was backed by the Pope, and the alpine states.

By the 1900’s however, the situation changed: the Third French Republic was established in 1885, after overthrowing the last royal that tried to emulate Napoleon, revolution wrecked Naples in 1890, which ended with the overthrow of the royal family and the creation of the Republics of Naples and Sicily, and the alpine allied states finally unified into one state in 1899, called the Helvetian Commonwealth. Also, around 1885 the ideology of pan-latinism, which promoted the unificacion of the romance people in a democratic confederation, was formed on the city of Marseille, which quickly began to gain adherents through the major cities of both sides of the Alps.

It was in this context that the Alliance’s cornerstone was laid: through the first decade of the XX century, french government officials began to make inquiries with the Commonwealth for the creation of a Franco-Helvetian Alliance, patterned after the old alpine alliance, but with a far greater depth than a mere economic and military agreement, one founded on the principles of democracy, liberty and equality. The new alpine government was receptive to the idea, so formal talks were held through the 1900’s, but at their insistence, Naples was invited to the talks. Finally, a definite agreement was signed between the 3 countries in 1912, the Geneva Pact, a document which would eventually become the basis of the Alliance’s legal framework.

Through originally intended to be only a partnership between France, Helvetia and Naples, the minor states of the french riviera and northern Italy began to show interest in the project, mostly due the economic opportunities it represented. This interest delayed the timeframe laid out by the Geneva Pact, but french and helvetian diplomats worked around it, understanding the opportunity in front of them.

Finally, on August 1st, 1925, the Latin Alliance was founded on the city of Geneva, with its first members being the Republic of France, the Helvetian Commonwealth, the Republic of Naples, the Republic of Toulouse, the Kingdom of Lombardy and the Venetian Republic.

From this point on, the history of the Alliance would consist of the continuation of the slow process of integration, while the minor states on the french and italian regions would join one by one. The sole exception would be the Papal States, which would remain stubbornly isolationist, reverting to some of its worst practices of the past. They “seemingly” had a change of attitude during 1963 when a new pope was elected, a poor sop was who was recently elevated to bishop before the election. However, overtly ambitious cardinals, people dreaming of past glories and popular revolt seeking a democratic government eventually led to the collapse of the Papal States, the entrance of Alliance troops to Rome to restore order and the Pope began to call himself a "Prisoner in the Vatican".

Today, the future of the Alliance is bright: the integration of its members states is going apace, while a new member, Greece, is being welcomed into its ranks. However, there’s also a lot of troubles on the horizon: France is being rocked by political scandals, forcing Helvetia to bear its burden and assume a position of leadership within the Alliance; the mafiosi in Sicily and southern Naples are resisting more fiercely than ever the integration of the states, knowing that a strong Latin Alliance would mean their end; and on Rome, the Pope is nearing the end of his life, still stubbornly clinging to the title of "prisoner", even through the Alliance has tried to negotiate with him before.


Government

The foundation and legal framework of the Alliance is contained on the Foundational Treaty of the Latin Alliance, better known as the Treaty of Geneva; it laids out the Alliance’s main objectives (integration and solidarity among its members, rooted on common history, values, culture and heritage), its main commitments towards its members, obligations and rights of each member-state and its citizens, and a general outline of the Alliance’s main institutions, which are further detailed in other treaties.

The Latin Alliance has nine institutions which charter its overall course, known as the 9 pillars:

• 1) The Latin Council, which is a collegiate body that gathers the heads of state/government of the Alliance. It sets the general direction the Alliance will take, and its decisions are taken by simple majority. The Council gathers every three months, unless an emergency meeting is called. Collectively, they are the Head of State of the Alliance, but for practical purposes they elect a person to represent them, the Grand Councillor of the Alliance, for a term of two years; this Grand Councillor carries out the day-to-day duties of a head of state, carries out the will of the Council, and is the Alliance’s chief diplomatic officer, and from this position the Grand Councillor is tasked with the negotiations between the Alliance and other countries interested in joining, either as associates or full-time members. The Latin Diplomatic Service is under its purview, and is led directly by the Grand Councillor.
  
• 2) The Alliance Parliament, which gathers elected representatives from each member state. Unlike a normal legislative, each member state has three seats in the Parliament allocated to them, which they can fill following any procedure they wish, provided it is through democratic means. They review and vote laws that concern the Alliance as a whole, like its budget, civil service, military, among other things. The Parliament also elects the High Commissioner, the Alliance’s Head of Government, for a term of four years; the High Commissioner directs the Alliance’s administration and is the head of its Civil Service, and overall concerns itself with the Alliance’s inner workings and the further integration of its members.
  
• 3) The Court of Justice of the Latin Alliance, which reviews and resolves disputes between states, between states and Alliance’s institutions and between citizens and states / Alliance’s institutions. The Court can also issue opinions over certain matters upon the request of a member state or a citizen. The Alliance Judicial Network, which coordinates judicial cooperation among the member states, is under the Court of Justice’s purview.
  
• 4) The Latin Defense Forces, tasked with the external defense of the Alliance, the protection of its interests and of the sovereignty of the member states. The Directorate of External Security is under its purview.
  
• 5) The Alliance Law Enforcement Agency, which is responsible with the internal security and defense of the alliance; its tasked with the gathering of criminal and internal intelligence, the coordination of the law enforcement agencies of the member states and, in case a crime has been committed across various member states, the power to actively investigate and carry out arrests. The Directorate of Internal Security is under its purview.
  
• 6) The Latin Central Bank, responsible for the alliance’s monetary policy, ensuring financial stability, and monetary strategies. It is the sole issuer of the alliance’s currency, the Latium.
  
• 7) The Latin Corps of Auditors, responsible for the internal audit of the alliance’s institutions, ensuring there’s a proper management of finances and that the institutions adhere to the treaties, laws and directives of the Alliance. Latin Gendarmerie Taskforce is under its purview, though this taskforce also follows the commands of the Alliance Law Enforcement Agency.
  
• 8) The Galileo Institute of Science and Technology, tasked with the technological development of the Alliance; it coordinates the efforts of the various universities and institutes across the member states, and is the biggest source funding for scientific projects, either through grants or scholarships. The Alliance Space Authority and the Latin Atomic Agency are under is purview.
  
• 9) The DaVinci Initiative of Arts and Culture, tasked with the protection and promotion of the culture and heritage of alliance and its member states. Like the Galileo Institute, it coordinates between the universities, institutes and conservatories of the member states and gives grants and scholarships to artistic, cultural and conservation projects. The importance of this institution, and its status as pillar, stems from the ample powers it has in order to protect the Alliance’s common greco-roman heritage, and usually it is the first point of contact between the alliance and prospective members.

[Chrinthanium]

--SNIP--

Well, I like it overall. Again.. islands, empire, meh... but it's cool. Latin confederacy, essentially from what I can tell. Seems a nice change from Germans No real objections on anything thus far.

[Iansisle]

E-P, if you're looking for someone to play the role of William of orange financing coalitions against the Sun King, the Shield is looking for a way to blow through a bunch of money and exhaust itself in the seventeenth century!

In other news, I'd like to finalize my claims. Hopefully the Caribbean Alliance is ok with having Shieldian colonization in Venezuela, so I'd like to add the other two ABCs (Aruba and Bonaire) as well as Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Barbados. I know adding a bunch of small islands will probably give Chrin fits but some risks must be run to make sure I have all that sweet sweet sugar money to have blown on fighting France.

Should end up giving the Shield a continental population of about ten million and a colonial population a bit over a million, although I am considering having some areas be independent microstates under the larger claim (ie: splinter republics formed during the revolution and not yet fully reintegrated). It's possible I will conspire with BG to see if he's interested in a three way proxy war between moderate independents, Shieldian colonists and Geletian insurgents in the Maldives.

Other historical thoughts: as personally distasteful as it is to me, it does seem likely the Shield's Caribbean empire would have been built on the back of slave labor. I hope Walmington remains as fastly abolitionist in this incarnation as it was in previous versions and would be only too happy to lose a way over the slave trade. Perhaps that is what led to the independence of the mainland colonies?

I also wouldn't mind getting into a scrap with the Geletians over a pig. That was always fun. And should we assume that historically not-Gandvik was sliced into microstates, or that the Shield used to be larger and better able to defend against it's larger Iberian neighbor before poor management and conflict led to it being pushed back to Portugal's borders?

Cheers, all

[Marimaia]

In other news, I'd like to finalize my claims. Hopefully the Caribbean Alliance is ok with having Shieldian colonization in Venezuela, so I'd like to add the other two ABCs (Aruba and Bonaire) as well as Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Barbados. I know adding a bunch of small islands will probably give Chrin fits but some risks must be run to make sure I have all that sweet sweet sugar money to have blown on fighting France.

Absolutely fine with me

[Chrinthanium]

E-P, if you're looking for someone to play the role of William of orange financing coalitions against the Sun King, the Shield is looking for a way to blow through a bunch of money and exhaust itself in the seventeenth century!

In other news, I'd like to finalize my claims. Hopefully the Caribbean Alliance is ok with having Shieldian colonization in Venezuela, so I'd like to add the other two ABCs (Aruba and Bonaire) as well as Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Barbados. I know adding a bunch of small islands will probably give Chrin fits but some risks must be run to make sure I have all that sweet sweet sugar money to have blown on fighting France.

Should end up giving the Shield a continental population of about ten million and a colonial population a bit over a million, although I am considering having some areas be independent microstates under the larger claim (ie: splinter republics formed during the revolution and not yet fully reintegrated). It's possible I will conspire with BG to see if he's interested in a three way proxy war between moderate independents, Shieldian colonists and Geletian insurgents in the Maldives.

Other historical thoughts: as personally distasteful as it is to me, it does seem likely the Shield's Caribbean empire would have been built on the back of slave labor. I hope Walmington remains as fastly abolitionist in this incarnation as it was in previous versions and would be only too happy to lose a way over the slave trade. Perhaps that is what led to the independence of the mainland colonies?

I also wouldn't mind getting into a scrap with the Geletians over a pig. That was always fun. And should we assume that historically not-Gandvik was sliced into microstates, or that the Shield used to be larger and better able to defend against it's larger Iberian neighbor before poor management and conflict led to it being pushed back to Portugal's borders?

Cheers, all

Meh, it's whatever at this point. I just hope you'll check in often enough in case we get someone new who wants Portuguese colonization.

[Walmington on Sea]

After quite some thought, I am going to attempt a new claim.

The appeal of Amberland, of using historic parts of Denmark and Sweden to represent a modified core of Walmington ((Kronborg Castle became The Hook, Helsingborg became Burnbury, Helsingor was once again Elsinore, and then Iceland became Albany; Svalbard, Coldshore; Rügen, Eastgate, and in Angleland I had an easy name for the motherland)) is considerable, but the claim feels otherwise disjointed, especially in a reshaping Europe.

A mooted move to Ireland is the obvious alternative. The island is not so far in location, size, or climate to the fictional WoS with which I entered Nationstates, and history shows it capable of supporting a significantly larger population than that present today.

Using a combination of sources ((the CIA factbook for whole entities listed there, latest census data and official government estimates elsewhere)), I have assembled the bones of a prospective claim. This should entail an end to the Imperial Federation and a return to a more traditional Godfreyite Empire, all be it one that is slowly losing the battle that its predecessor sought to avoid by means of said Federation.

The Home Islands
Republic of Ireland: 5,176,569
Northern Ireland: 1,885,400
=7,061,969

Other European Territories
Gibraltar: 29,581

Africa
Canary Is: 2,128,647
Cabo Verde: 583,255
Cap Vert (Senegal): 3,199,935
Erongo (Namibia): 150,400
Zanzibar (Tanzania): 1,303,569
Mafia (Tanzania): 46,850
Seychelles: 95,981
=7,508,637

Atlantic
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha: 7,862

Central America and the Caribbean
Bahamas: 337,721
Belize: 399,598
=737,319

North America
Newfoundland & Lab: 521,922
Nova Scotia: 976,768
New Brunswick: 780,021
Prince Edward Is: 157,901
=2,436,612

((Quebec?: 8,522,800
St.Pierre & Miquelon?: 5,347
=10,964,759 all North America))

Asia
Sri Lanka: 22,889,201
Andaman & Nicobar: 380,520
Singapore: 6,209,660
=29,479,381

In maximum configuration, this amounts to almost 56 million souls.

I am very much open to discussing alterations. I considered claiming Cyprus and parts of Egypt ((the latter likely amounting to 2-4 million souls)) along the Suez, but with Malta claimed by the Latin Empire, I lean towards a general understanding that Walmington probably once held a presence in the eastern Mediterranean but has since been driven back, perhaps by said Empire. Might we once have put in His Godfreyite Majesty's warships in parts of Greece? In any case, I think that Suez may be a question left temporarily unanswered.

The Imperial Federation held most of Macaronesia. In this reboot, I have merely claimed what remains, and am ever open to exchanges with Ian and TCB ((amongst others)), present or historical. Certainly the Godfreyites should at some point have tried to control the Azores and Madeira, and likely Ceuta as well. As before, Cabo Verde and the Canary Islands would likely be a fairly prosperous white-majority territory with moderate internal autonomy, constituted as the perhaps inappropriately-named Dominion of the Fortunate Islands, tied to the Empire by fear of Spanish, Shieldian, and other perceived interest in their situation.

Near by Cap Vert would remain known as the Green Cape Colony, and would surrender one million of its population to the Home Islands, leaving 2.2 million in the black-majority city-state. I have a vague sense that perhaps this place may have been important in AMW in the history of the slave trade and Shieldo-Godfreyite hostilities.

Erongo would remain Waynesia, essentially the private plantation of the Chaspot-Wayne family.

In the Indian Ocean the situation may be similar in terms of flexibility, and of historically shifting control of islands and passages. The Seychelles for now represent the Walmingtonian Indian Ocean Territory, and Zanzibar-Mafia the Walmingtonian Spice Islands.

Importantly, I will note here that I intend for Dra-pol to remain upon Sulawesi. Its Wamingtonian colonial history most likely shall relate to Godfreyite attempts to control the spice trade, and in particularly the now-Spanish Moluccas. Perhaps the Spanish arrived first, and Walmington's attempt to use Dra-pol as a base from which to attack the profitable islands proved akin to using a bear-trap in a trampoline's stead, or perhaps the islands once were Godfreyite, only for the Drapoel meat-grinder to leave the Walmingtonian Eastern Station unable to withstand Spanish intrigue.

In North America, Atlantic Canada has become a Walmingtonian core. St.Pierre & Miquelon will likely be part of this, but the territory's relative insignificance leaves open the possibility of a foreign outpost remaining under some special agreement, likely in return for greater concession elsewhere, should anyone be particularly interested.

I wonder whether to flesh-out the region by incorporating Quebec as Norbray. If I do such, it is likely that I would cut out one million residents from its 8.5 million total and transport them back to the Home Islands, leaving just below ten million Walmingtonians on the continent, bordering Apilonia.

The Bahamas would serve on as the Walmingtonian West Indies, and Belize as Walmingtonian Honduras. Tristan da Cunha is renamed Wendsleybury, honouring the great Walmingtonian explorer and Godfreyite missionary.

In Asia, Sri Lanka would return to its place as the jewel in the Godfreyite crown, supplying almost all of the tea and much of the colonial labour. Another two million would be cut from the population and moved to the Home Islands, leaving almost 21 million in situ within the Colony of Ceyloba, where there would be raging a left-influenced insurgency sponsored in part by Beddgelert. Singapore, too, would be reduced by one million, to 5.2 million. Andaman and Nicobar would be all that remains of the Walmingtonian East Indies, and it may be that nothing is held any longer east of Singapore. That city state I intend to play initially as fairly content and placid, but as perhaps the only white-minority territory of significant scale in which the local economy has been allowed to develop at least in part for the local good ((while Ceyloba, the Spice Islands, Green Cape, Honduras, et cetera see the bulk of their productivity siphoned away to Great Walmington, and Norbray retains a yet-local white majority population including many first-generation immigrants as part of an endless back-and-forth population exchange with the motherland)), its future is harder to predict.


All of these proposed population shifts stand to increase the population of the Home Islands ((Ireland)) to some 12 million. Of course, reliance on imports would be increased, and the navy, merchant marine, and fishing fleet would remain of vital importance to the claim.

[Chrinthanium]

Excellent! I love it. Go for the maximum, Walmington. Always go for the max. Also, if Amberland isn't going to border Russia, I'm putting Kaliningrad back into the claim.

[Chrinthanium]

As of this moment, barring maybe something I might have forgotten (I feel I did forget something, but I can't figure it out), this is what we currently look like in AMW.

https://i.imgur.com/msH4Xbi.png

[Bala Mantre]

As of this moment, barring maybe something I might have forgotten (I feel I did forget something, but I can't figure it out), this is what we currently look like in AMW.

https://i.imgur.com/msH4Xbi.png

Is there anything I should know that is truly important?

[Chrinthanium]

As of this moment, barring maybe something I might have forgotten (I feel I did forget something, but I can't figure it out), this is what we currently look like in AMW.

https://i.imgur.com/msH4Xbi.png

Is there anything I should know that is truly important?

Hello, your question is very ambiguous. Right now our RP group is rebooting and we haven't quite finished the process. If you're interested in becoming a member of our group, you can find the pertinent information in the OP of this thread.

[The Crooked Beat]

To begin with, as for the Maluku Islands, I certainly didn't mean for this to cause any controversy, and as goes for any aspect of what I suppose I'll provisionally call Ezpanna, it is entirely negotiable. Again, like the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, my thinking here was that the Malukus were a sparsely-populated and, at the moment at least, somewhat peripheral area of great historical, ecological, and geographical interest which could provide a simultaneously colorful and unobtrusive imperial vestige. If this is a sticking point, I'll drop it.

I suppose I'd also be interested in adding Mauritius, if possible, as a sort of bridge between Africa and the Malukus.

Providing that is the only major objection, let me list the territories in question, together with main particulars:

-Spain (not including the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, or the plazas de soberanía): 44,408,385 people
-Mauritania: 4,403,313 people
-Western Sahara: 567,402 people
-French Southern and Antarctic Lands: no permanent population
-Maluku Islands (including Indonesian provinces of Maluku and North Maluku): 1,768,500 + 1,235,700 = 3,004,200 people
-Mauritius (including Rodrigues, Agalega and Saint Brandon): 1,265,985 people

Which yields a prospective total population of 52,383,300 without Mauritius, or 53,649,285 all-inclusive.

I have no objections to any other of the proposals made so far, and, to address those probably most relevant to Ezpanna's affairs, I'll fully endorse Iansisle and Walmington as well. Ceuta, I think, would make for a logical extension of Walmingtonian power into the Mediterranean, at least historically, and might well have worked as an important historical source of conflict, together with Gibraltar. It seems entirely possible that Walmington would have seized that particular Ezpannan (Hispanian?) outpost in the course of some early-modern war.

As for historical matters and questions of present-day international relations, I'll attempt to address those on the other thread.

[Chrinthanium]

To begin with, as for the Maluku Islands, I certainly didn't mean for this to cause any controversy, and as goes for any aspect of what I suppose I'll provisionally call Ezpanna, it is entirely negotiable. Again, like the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, my thinking here was that the Malukus were a sparsely-populated and, at the moment at least, somewhat peripheral area of great historical, ecological, and geographical interest which could provide a simultaneously colorful and unobtrusive imperial vestige. If this is a sticking point, I'll drop it.

I suppose I'd also be interested in adding Mauritius, if possible, as a sort of bridge between Africa and the Malukus.

Providing that is the only major objection, let me list the territories in question, together with main particulars:

-Spain (not including the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, or the plazas de soberanía): 44,408,385 people
-Mauritania: 4,403,313 people
-Western Sahara: 567,402 people
-French Southern and Antarctic Lands: no permanent population
-Maluku Islands (including Indonesian provinces of Maluku and North Maluku): 1,768,500 + 1,235,700 = 3,004,200 people
-Mauritius (including Rodrigues, Agalega and Saint Brandon): 1,265,985 people

Which yields a prospective total population of 52,383,300 without Mauritius, or 53,649,285 all-inclusive.

I have no objections to any other of the proposals made so far, and, to address those probably most relevant to Ezpanna's affairs, I'll fully endorse Iansisle and Walmington as well. Ceuta, I think, would make for a logical extension of Walmingtonian power into the Mediterranean, at least historically, and might well have worked as an important historical source of conflict, together with Gibraltar. It seems entirely possible that Walmington would have seized that particular Ezpannan (Hispanian?) outpost in the course of some early-modern war.

As for historical matters and questions of present-day international relations, I'll attempt to address those on the other thread.

I'd only have to add Mauritius to your claim on the map, then I'll be up in AMW Russia trying not to freeze to death.

[Chrinthanium]

To begin with, as for the Maluku Islands, I certainly didn't mean for this to cause any controversy, and as goes for any aspect of what I suppose I'll provisionally call Ezpanna, it is entirely negotiable. Again, like the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, my thinking here was that the Malukus were a sparsely-populated and, at the moment at least, somewhat peripheral area of great historical, ecological, and geographical interest which could provide a simultaneously colorful and unobtrusive imperial vestige. If this is a sticking point, I'll drop it.

I suppose I'd also be interested in adding Mauritius, if possible, as a sort of bridge between Africa and the Malukus.

Providing that is the only major objection, let me list the territories in question, together with main particulars:

-Spain (not including the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, or the plazas de soberanía): 44,408,385 people
-Mauritania: 4,403,313 people
-Western Sahara: 567,402 people
-French Southern and Antarctic Lands: no permanent population
-Maluku Islands (including Indonesian provinces of Maluku and North Maluku): 1,768,500 + 1,235,700 = 3,004,200 people
-Mauritius (including Rodrigues, Agalega and Saint Brandon): 1,265,985 people

Which yields a prospective total population of 52,383,300 without Mauritius, or 53,649,285 all-inclusive.

I have no objections to any other of the proposals made so far, and, to address those probably most relevant to Ezpanna's affairs, I'll fully endorse Iansisle and Walmington as well. Ceuta, I think, would make for a logical extension of Walmingtonian power into the Mediterranean, at least historically, and might well have worked as an important historical source of conflict, together with Gibraltar. It seems entirely possible that Walmington would have seized that particular Ezpannan (Hispanian?) outpost in the course of some early-modern war.

As for historical matters and questions of present-day international relations, I'll attempt to address those on the other thread.

Actually, Ceuta is pending for you. If you're not taking it, Walmington did not ask for it, but Apilonia did. So, I suppose it should be Apilonia who gets the Ceuta concession. Walmington in Melilla, though?

[Chemaki]

Hi all! Sorry for being a bit late with this, but here is my outlined claim for Romnika, prettying up the borders a bit, getting nice and cosy with Chrin's Russia and making it just a little beefier and more threatening. I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different). Stay tuned! Oh, and Chrin, I want a nice red this time!

Claim: https://i.imgur.com/H98Rfjv.png

Israel, Palestinian Territories, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Georgia (excluding Kakheti), Armenia (excluding Syunik and Vayots Dzor), Turkey (Hatay, Kilis, Gazianstep, Sanliurfa, Mardin, Sirnak, Hakkari, Van, Bitlis, Siirt, Batman, Diyarbakir, Agri, Igdir, Kars, Ardahan, Erzurum, Artvin, Rize, Trabzon, Gumushane, Giresun, Tunceli, Bingol, Mus, Elazig, Malatya, K. Maras, Osmaniye, Adana, Mersin, Karaman, Konya, Aksaray, Nevsehir, Kayseri, Sivas, Tokat, Ordu, Kirsehir, Yozgat, Antalya districts of Serik, Manavgat, Ibradi, Akeski, Gundogmus, Alanya, Gazipasa)

Population: 121,564,000
GDP: $845 billion ($2.09 trillion PPP)
GDP Per Capita: $6,950 ($17,250 PPP)

Population calculation breakdown:
Israel: 8.712 million
Palestinian Territories: 5.052 million
Syria: 18.27 million
Lebanon: 6.082 million
Iraq: 38.270 million
Jordan: 9.702 million
Georgia: 3.398 million
Armenia: 2.753 million
Turkey: 29.325 million

[Chrinthanium]

Hi all! Sorry for being a bit late with this, but here is my outlined claim for Romnika, prettying up the borders a bit, getting nice and cosy with Chrin's Russia and making it just a little beefier and more threatening. I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different). Stay tuned! Oh, and Chrin, I want a nice red this time!

Claim: https://i.imgur.com/H98Rfjv.png

Israel, Palestinian Territories, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Georgia (excluding Kakheti), Armenia (excluding Syunik and Vayots Dzor), Turkey (Hatay, Kilis, Gazianstep, Sanliurfa, Mardin, Sirnak, Hakkari, Van, Bitlis, Siirt, Batman, Diyarbakir, Agri, Igdir, Kars, Ardahan, Erzurum, Artvin, Rize, Trabzon, Gumushane, Giresun, Tunceli, Bingol, Mus, Elazig, Malatya, K. Maras, Osmaniye, Adana, Mersin, Karaman, Konya, Aksaray, Nevsehir, Kayseri, Sivas, Tokat, Ordu, Kirsehir, Yozgat, Antalya districts of Serik, Manavgat, Ibradi, Akeski, Gundogmus, Alanya, Gazipasa)

Population: 121,564,000
GDP: $845 billion ($2.09 trillion PPP)
GDP Per Capita: $6,950 ($17,250 PPP)

Population calculation breakdown:
Israel: 8.712 million
Palestinian Territories: 5.052 million
Syria: 18.27 million
Lebanon: 6.082 million
Iraq: 38.270 million
Jordan: 9.702 million
Georgia: 3.398 million
Armenia: 2.753 million
Turkey: 29.325 million

I have a nice brown for you.

Here you go... also TCB I will update your name to Ezpanna and Chemaki will get named once I finalize a few other things.
https://i.imgur.com/yFObR4b.png

That's what it would look like. Honestly, I'm kind of curious why you stopped where you stopped. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I'd have gone and taken all of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. And maybe not filled in half of Anatolia. It just looks like your people stopped because they got bored and that's it. Or, I would have not filled in pieces of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia and stopped without taking any of Turkey. That's what I think would have been done. These partial states are so much more difficult to calculate population.

[Chemaki]

That's what it would look like. Honestly, I'm kind of curious why you stopped where you stopped. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I'd have gone and taken all of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. And maybe not filled in half of Anatolia. It just looks like your people stopped because they got bored and that's it. Or, I would have not filled in pieces of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia and stopped without taking any of Turkey. That's what I think would have been done. These partial states are so much more difficult to calculate population.

You have good reason to be curious! It took me a while to kind-of settle on a proposal - for a long time I wanted Romnika to extend north to the Caucasus and eastern Turkey since it's the ancestral home of the Romnikan slavs and how they migrated southwards into the Middle East, but I didn't want to extend the claim too large. I was originally thinking of gunning for Azerbaijan and the rest of Georgia/Armenia, but every other combination I tried either leads to some very weird looking borders, or a weirdly-shaped dragonland Iran. Plus, a Romnika with Azerbaijan and Iraq, or both and Eastern Iran, would have petroleum resources to rival Beddgelert, which doesn't quite fit in with Romnika's theme: they're strategically and geopolitically relevant because they're bellicose, not because they're a resource powerhouse. So I decided to leave out any of Iran and Azerbaijan for a future claimant, and that way if they want to do something Persian-themed, they have the whole area to draw their history from, and, more importantly, they have pretty borders. The partial claims of the Georgian and Armenian states add up to 518,000 people so for any decent sized claim it's a drop in the ocean (let's say for an Iran+Azerbaijan claim of 90 million people, that's 0.6% - smaller than the margin of error from using the 2010-2015 censuses from these nations).

I do agree with you about the difficulty of calculating Turkey, though. That is a nightmare. But, at the end of the day, I don't want to take the whole thing. Romnika was never intentended to have any part in Europe, and whilst it's meant to be a distant offshoot of some old Byzantine or Roman Empire, it was never intended to be a direct successor (so I don't want to touch the Bosphorous). I thought that claiming was much as I did, it would leave 51 million people for sizable Greek/Turkish claim if someone wanted to go for that, but it does seem a little unlikely. I might throw E-P a message and see if he's interested in taking European Turkey and the Western Coast of Asian Turkey and I'd snag up the rest Anatolia - the way, it's still a ballache to calculate like any split Turkey claim, but once it's sorted, it's sorted (until either Romnika or the Latin Empire CTE's).

[Beddgelert]

Right! As discussed on Discord, the Arabian idea is abandoned, and I've finally settled on a BG that's closer to -though not quite like- the original AMW-BG.

The claim in full:

Kakheti (Georgia): 319,144 - 11,311 sq km
Syunik (Armenia): 141,771 - 4,506 sq km
Vayots Dzor (Armenia): 58,324 - 2,308 sq km
Azerbaijan: 10,205,810 - 86,600 sq km
Iran: 84,923,314 - 1,648,195 sq km
Afghanistan: 36,643,815 - 652,230 sq km
Pakistan: 233,500,636 - 796,095 sq km

This amounts to some 365,792,814 people and 3,201,245 square kilometres.

I am proposing an estimated GDP per capita of around $12,500 in parity terms (about the same as Venezuela or Albania IRL, marginally more than Cuba and marginally less than Egypt); for and economy worth $4.572 trillion total (a little larger than Germany's, about half of India's).
This would be exhibiting fairly strong growth, largely through the expansion of public works to develop infrastructure in remote regions.

Essentially, the Gauls who invaded Greece in 279BC then crossed the Bosphorus will have continued east, perhaps following the footsteps of Alexander. They arrive in time to find Hellenistic society surviving in the ailing Seleucid Empire, and it is likely debated today whether they killed that civilisation off or essentially merged with it in resisting Parthian invasions before doing much the same in the Greco-Bactrian kingdom. The modern Geletians are a blend of (dominant) Gaulish and Hellenic ancestors along with major contributions from Armenian, Indo-Scythian, Jewish, and other peoples.

Comments and questions welcome...

[Marimaia]

No quibbles from me, BG. At the end of the day, claims based in Asia are potentially going to have large populations within a relatively small geographical area so I see no problem with you having 365-and-a-bit-million people (yes, I know that this particular claim would probably rank about 8th largest in the world in RL but I'm talking generally ).

As I'm making a post I might as well throw in my little request while I'm here. Now that everyone who wants Caribbean territory appears to have acquired their Caribbean territory, I'd like to ask if I could possibly add a couple of the remaining islands to my claim. Namely Trinidad & Tobago, Saint Lucia, and Dominica. The GDP per capita of the overall claim would stay the same at $14,500 (as previously discussed on Discord), the population would grow by 1,449,519 to 166,073,958 (as I had to correct the previous population due to inaccurate sources). The idea is for the three states to be IC'ly independent but in the process of joining the Caribbean Confederation, so I can RP their accession to CariCon in my thread.

That still leaves some territory open in the Caribbean region if any new claimants fancy overseas territories or whatever they'd go with

[The Kingdom of Apilonia]

As part of my efforts to expand on Apilonia's (relativly limited) colonial history and legacy, and as discussesd on Discord, I would like to make the small addition of Cyprus.

My current thinking is that Cyprus would have originally been an Apilonian territory, either as a result of a direct conquest or a steady development of influence growing from military/trading outposts during the Age of Sail. After gaining independence from the Kingdom, the island split into two factions (likely Christian and Muslim, as in our timeline), which have been at odds for some years, neccesitating an Apilonian peacekeeping force based out of the two SBA.

As both the factions would be 'sovereign states' in their own right, this addition does not add any population or GDP to the Kingdom itself.

[Europe - Prussia]

Hello there! So, I saw my name mentioned, plus I wish to make some adjustements to my claim:

(...) I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different) (...)

As I've said before, I'm keeping history before Napoleon as closely as possible to our history, so a rump Roman State on Greece during the middle ages is totally possible, until it is eventually carved out by the italian thalassocracies or something along those lines brings its end.

(...) I do agree with you about the difficulty of calculating Turkey, though. That is a nightmare. But, at the end of the day, I don't want to take the whole thing. Romnika was never intentended to have any part in Europe, and whilst it's meant to be a distant offshoot of some old Byzantine or Roman Empire, it was never intended to be a direct successor (so I don't want to touch the Bosphorous). I thought that claiming was much as I did, it would leave 51 million people for sizable Greek/Turkish claim if someone wanted to go for that, but it does seem a little unlikely. I might throw E-P a message and see if he's interested in taking European Turkey and the Western Coast of Asian Turkey and I'd snag up the rest Anatolia - the way, it's still a ballache to calculate like any split Turkey claim, but once it's sorted, it's sorted (until either Romnika or the Latin Empire CTE's).

Personally, I'm not that interested in adding more people to my claim, especially that many: for example, Istambul has 14 million people, more than Greece; more than anything, I don't want to reach the 200 million mark. We can hash out something of course; alternatively, I have no problems in giving up Greece if someone wants to create a Greek/Byzantine/Ottoman claim or Beddgelert wants to return to the Balkans.

---

Finally, like Mari and Apilonia, I would like to make some minor adjustements to my claim: I'd like to drop the french overseas territories, with the exception of Guadeloupe, Martinique and Mayotte, and add to my claim Andorra, the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, and Libya.

My reasoning is quite simple: when I claimed the french overseas territories I did it for purely practical purposes, as I needed a place that worked as a spaceport and a nuclear test site, and out of lazyness, as the CIA factbook already had the calculations of the population done (Metropolitan France + islands). However, after reading about those territories, and that only Guiana wasn't dependant on Metropolitan France, I ultimately realized that Chrin was right about far-flung colonies. Libya on the other hand is much more closer, is mostly desert (so no problems about nuclear tests) and it can work as an spaceport, not as good as French Guiana, but its on the same latitude as Cape Canaveral, so its feasible. As for Guadeloupe, Martinique and Mayotte, I'd like to keep them for the intrigue of course.

Jersey and Guernsey is for a more logical reason, as they are closer to my claim than any potential claim on the Britain, while Andorra is to fill a hole, because if I'm not mistaken TCB never claimed it.

So, counting only Metropolitan France, plus Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, Andorra, Jersey, Guernsey and Libya the grand total would be 163,892,305; a plus of 3 millon.

Metropolitan France: 62,814,233
Italy: 62,402,659
Switzerland: 8,403,994
Austria: 8,859,449
Slovenia: 2,102,678
Mónaco: 39,000
Liechtenstein: 39,137
Vatican City: 1,000
San Marino: 34,232
Malta: 457,267
Greece: 10,607,051
Libya: 6,890,535
Mayotte: 223,765
Martinique: 376,480
Guadeloupe: 395,700
Jersey: 101,073
Guernsey: 67,052
Andorra: 77,000

Total: 163,892,305