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-Roma Invicta-
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby -Roma Invicta- » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:52 pm

I support the above decision by Mari, gotta so what is right for you. As for my own requests on the former caliphate, I’ll detail my preference, which I’d want to end up with, but will entertain discussions on it.

As we’re just talking about the Caliphate, and give the stated exception it represents to
‘The Deal’, my requested transfer is just from the former caliphate .

Preference:

GAIN: Egypt (All, save Mari’s Suez Canal Zone) & Libya
DROP: All Roman territory on South America

User avatar
Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:51 pm

-Roma Invicta- wrote:I support the above decision by Mari, gotta so what is right for you. As for my own requests on the former caliphate, I’ll detail my preference, which I’d want to end up with, but will entertain discussions on it.

As we’re just talking about the Caliphate, and give the stated exception it represents to
‘The Deal’, my requested transfer is just from the former caliphate .

Preference:

GAIN: Egypt (All, save Mari’s Suez Canal Zone) & Libya
DROP: All Roman territory on South America


Okay, let's put this to the numbers:

Brazilian States of Ampa, Maranhao, Para, and Guyana = 16,416,405 (reduction to Rome, Source: Wikipedia)
Egypt without the Canal Zone as listed by Marimaia = 96,032,317 (approximately, source: Wikipedia and CIA World Factbook)
Libya: 6,754,507 (source: CIA World Factbook).

That is a net gain to Rome of 86,370,419. With my spreadsheet from when I had the Latin Empire, there are around 145 million people in the European portion of the claim (as listed and mapped) without going into Madagascar (25 million) and the other small island territories scattered about (which is probably around 4-5 million with Puerto Rico). Putting you roughly near 174-175 million people without South American claims added. 175 million (for arguments sake) + 86 million give you a population around 261 million people. I can't speak for others, but to get me to agree to this, you need to give up more than just territory in South America. It's not a "total population after all is said and done" thing, it's the "LOLHUGE" addition requested.

For the record, Britain with all of her territories around the world has a population total of 223,311,432. With the additional territories as listed by Marimaia (combined total of 13,507,543 CIA World Factbook 2018 estimates used) it would bring the British population to 236,818,975. Part of me doesn't even want that much population. Meh. Much to mull over at this point. Could mean a reordering of British territories outside the Home Island.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a dude.
------------
Part of A Modern World RP group.

User avatar
-Roma Invicta-
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby -Roma Invicta- » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:09 am

After discussions on Discord, with a view to both maintaining my Madagascar thread and in developing a more moderate expansion (from a population perspective), I have adjusted my request accordingly. I would still drop all Roman territory in South America, and gain the following:

Libya
Tunisia
Algeria (Tlemcen, Sidi Bel Abbes, Saida, Tiaret, Medea, Bouira, Bordj Bou Arreridj, Setif, Mila, Constantine, Guelma, Souk Ahras, El Taref, Annaba, Skikda, Jijel, Bejaia, Tizi Ouzou, Bourmerdes, Algiers, Blida, Ain Defla, Tipaza, Chief, Tissmsilt, Relizane, Mostaganem, Mascara, Oran, Ain Temouchent)
Guam
Samoa
America Samoa
Easter Island
Socotra

This would allow me to put together a significant Roman heartland, around the Mediterranean, and have the remnants of a Colonial Empire that I had originally planned, as discussed on Discord it stands to reason that Rome would have had been at the forefront of that sort of thing. This would give me a population of 225,275,873. Although, if easier from a map perspective I could always just take all of Algeria too, which would result in approx 240-245, as everything after Algeria is small-change and doesn't add much in population, but will add colour and a sense of history to Rome's territories.

User avatar
Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:01 am

-Roma Invicta- wrote:After discussions on Discord, with a view to both maintaining my Madagascar thread and in developing a more moderate expansion (from a population perspective), I have adjusted my request accordingly. I would still drop all Roman territory in South America, and gain the following:

Libya
Tunisia
Algeria (Tlemcen, Sidi Bel Abbes, Saida, Tiaret, Medea, Bouira, Bordj Bou Arreridj, Setif, Mila, Constantine, Guelma, Souk Ahras, El Taref, Annaba, Skikda, Jijel, Bejaia, Tizi Ouzou, Bourmerdes, Algiers, Blida, Ain Defla, Tipaza, Chief, Tissmsilt, Relizane, Mostaganem, Mascara, Oran, Ain Temouchent)
Guam
Samoa
America Samoa
Easter Island
Socotra

This would allow me to put together a significant Roman heartland, around the Mediterranean, and have the remnants of a Colonial Empire that I had originally planned, as discussed on Discord it stands to reason that Rome would have had been at the forefront of that sort of thing. This would give me a population of 225,275,873. Although, if easier from a map perspective I could always just take all of Algeria too, which would result in approx 240-245, as everything after Algeria is small-change and doesn't add much in population, but will add colour and a sense of history to Rome's territories.

Algeria is a small addition of only 42 million :D LOL

Uh, well, now that my cold is breaking and I can think without it hurting, I think I can say with 100% certainty there is ease in keeping everything closer rather than having is sprawled across the map. At the same time, either way, I am not 100% for or against anything at this point. Wishy-washy as I may be, if you were asking for my personal choice, I would say that your original idea is better IMHO than your compromise. My question to you would then be, which would do you prefer?
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a dude.
------------
Part of A Modern World RP group.

User avatar
-Roma Invicta-
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby -Roma Invicta- » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:28 pm

I prefer the compromise to be honest, as it’s closer to my original concept for a twenty first century Rome.

User avatar
Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Thu May 02, 2019 12:26 pm

-Roma Invicta- wrote:I prefer the compromise to be honest, as it’s closer to my original concept for a twenty first century Rome.

Very well, I have no objections :D
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a dude.
------------
Part of A Modern World RP group.

User avatar
Walmington on Sea
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 478
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Fri May 10, 2019 9:50 pm

I feel that it does make sense for Rome's empire to be concentrated around the Mediterranean. It seems improbable that the empire would have sought to compete with the Anglo-Germanic powers on the high seas in the long term, when rich and easy pickings lay closer to home and right where Rome could reasonably expect to monopolise them.

Perhaps, for the sake of other nations and their players ((California and others existing and likely to be proposed in future)), it could be said that Rome did briefly try to join in Asian and American colonisation, but found it inefficient compared to European and African expansion -especially given the comparative sparsity of Anglo-Walmingtonian privateers in the Mediterranean- and gave up relatively early, to focus on subduing Algeria and repulsing Gauls?

I am uncertain as to the point of the minor out-lying colonies in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, but not strongly inclined to vote against them for any particular reason.



Moving on to my own latest notion, I would like to state that I am considering a further relocation for Dra-pol, moving on from its down-sized place-holder position in Cambodia and the Mekong delta.

I have lately begun to tinker with an enormously over-due IC contribution from WoS, with thanks to Chrin for his approval for some British involvement. On all-but completing it as a news post, I find myself thinking that it will die there. One news post and done. Is there much point?

Instead, perhaps I should weave it into the frame of a new RP thread, involving Dra-pol. I think that it is high time for another war in AMW. I am happy that we have not had many, Rome's invasion of Madagascar aside, for quite some time, but it is also true that we have been even slower than we used to be. I do not think that anyone should be forced to RP a war if they are not so inclined, and as such I feel that it may be best for me to engage in another round of stop hitting yourself, and see who wants to join in.

I had a few ideas. One is simply to return Dra-pol to Myanmar, where the autarkic Kurosite model can surely be sustained, given the potential rice yields of the Ayeyarwady delta. Another was to shift Dra-pol to an island, perhaps helping to explain that very isolationism in some degree, and not bothering any neighbours.

Borneo was the first thought, with perhaps Brunei persisting as a concession as existed in previous iterations of the claim, but of course the Valendians are already there. Sulawesi, in Indonesia, and Mindanao, in the Philippines, might both work, being significant centres of agriculture, and somewhat defensible, with populations in the 20-million range. Whether their natural resources and/or geographical situation would have made them important enough for Walmington to fight over for a protracted period I am not sure.

I am leaning towards Mindanao, but am open to comment.

Once a decision has been reached, I will be starting a new thread, though I am not sure where it will be heading.
Factbook
The world continues to offer glittering prizes to those who have stout hearts and sharp swords.
-1st Earl of Birkenhead

User avatar
Saint-Laurent
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Nov 08, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Saint-Laurent » Sat May 25, 2019 7:09 am

Walmington on Sea wrote:I feel that it does make sense for Rome's empire to be concentrated around the Mediterranean. It seems improbable that the empire would have sought to compete with the Anglo-Germanic powers on the high seas in the long term, when rich and easy pickings lay closer to home and right where Rome could reasonably expect to monopolise them.

Perhaps, for the sake of other nations and their players ((California and others existing and likely to be proposed in future)), it could be said that Rome did briefly try to join in Asian and American colonisation, but found it inefficient compared to European and African expansion -especially given the comparative sparsity of Anglo-Walmingtonian privateers in the Mediterranean- and gave up relatively early, to focus on subduing Algeria and repulsing Gauls?

I am uncertain as to the point of the minor out-lying colonies in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, but not strongly inclined to vote against them for any particular reason.


Well, where have I been lately? Busy!!! (Sadly)

I would agree with what WoS writes here that it makes all the sense in the world. Personally I have no input in the Med but I see no issue.

Walmington on Sea wrote:Moving on to my own latest notion, I would like to state that I am considering a further relocation for Dra-pol, moving on from its down-sized place-holder position in Cambodia and the Mekong delta.

I have lately begun to tinker with an enormously over-due IC contribution from WoS, with thanks to Chrin for his approval for some British involvement. On all-but completing it as a news post, I find myself thinking that it will die there. One news post and done. Is there much point?

Instead, perhaps I should weave it into the frame of a new RP thread, involving Dra-pol. I think that it is high time for another war in AMW. I am happy that we have not had many, Rome's invasion of Madagascar aside, for quite some time, but it is also true that we have been even slower than we used to be. I do not think that anyone should be forced to RP a war if they are not so inclined, and as such I feel that it may be best for me to engage in another round of stop hitting yourself, and see who wants to join in.

I had a few ideas. One is simply to return Dra-pol to Myanmar, where the autarkic Kurosite model can surely be sustained, given the potential rice yields of the Ayeyarwady delta. Another was to shift Dra-pol to an island, perhaps helping to explain that very isolationism in some degree, and not bothering any neighbours.

Borneo was the first thought, with perhaps Brunei persisting as a concession as existed in previous iterations of the claim, but of course the Valendians are already there. Sulawesi, in Indonesia, and Mindanao, in the Philippines, might both work, being significant centres of agriculture, and somewhat defensible, with populations in the 20-million range. Whether their natural resources and/or geographical situation would have made them important enough for Walmington to fight over for a protracted period I am not sure.

I am leaning towards Mindanao, but am open to comment.

Once a decision has been reached, I will be starting a new thread, though I am not sure where it will be heading.


I would say unless there was activity in and around the Bahamas area, Saint-Laurent would have 0 input or activity. I do think SL and WoS being in close proximity there could have some happenings and I'd be more than happy to RP stuff there but insofar as Dra-pol is concerned, I'd be too far away to be involved.

I really do wish people would do things with their multiple claims and the Caribbean, while kind of isolated, has a good # of players in it for some fun activities.
.:. Puppet of Layarteb .:.
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User avatar
Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Sat May 25, 2019 6:05 pm

Walmington on Sea wrote:I feel that it does make sense for Rome's empire to be concentrated around the Mediterranean. It seems improbable that the empire would have sought to compete with the Anglo-Germanic powers on the high seas in the long term, when rich and easy pickings lay closer to home and right where Rome could reasonably expect to monopolise them.

Perhaps, for the sake of other nations and their players ((California and others existing and likely to be proposed in future)), it could be said that Rome did briefly try to join in Asian and American colonisation, but found it inefficient compared to European and African expansion -especially given the comparative sparsity of Anglo-Walmingtonian privateers in the Mediterranean- and gave up relatively early, to focus on subduing Algeria and repulsing Gauls?

I am uncertain as to the point of the minor out-lying colonies in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, but not strongly inclined to vote against them for any particular reason.



Moving on to my own latest notion, I would like to state that I am considering a further relocation for Dra-pol, moving on from its down-sized place-holder position in Cambodia and the Mekong delta.

I have lately begun to tinker with an enormously over-due IC contribution from WoS, with thanks to Chrin for his approval for some British involvement. On all-but completing it as a news post, I find myself thinking that it will die there. One news post and done. Is there much point?

Instead, perhaps I should weave it into the frame of a new RP thread, involving Dra-pol. I think that it is high time for another war in AMW. I am happy that we have not had many, Rome's invasion of Madagascar aside, for quite some time, but it is also true that we have been even slower than we used to be. I do not think that anyone should be forced to RP a war if they are not so inclined, and as such I feel that it may be best for me to engage in another round of stop hitting yourself, and see who wants to join in.

I had a few ideas. One is simply to return Dra-pol to Myanmar, where the autarkic Kurosite model can surely be sustained, given the potential rice yields of the Ayeyarwady delta. Another was to shift Dra-pol to an island, perhaps helping to explain that very isolationism in some degree, and not bothering any neighbours.

Borneo was the first thought, with perhaps Brunei persisting as a concession as existed in previous iterations of the claim, but of course the Valendians are already there. Sulawesi, in Indonesia, and Mindanao, in the Philippines, might both work, being significant centres of agriculture, and somewhat defensible, with populations in the 20-million range. Whether their natural resources and/or geographical situation would have made them important enough for Walmington to fight over for a protracted period I am not sure.

I am leaning towards Mindanao, but am open to comment.

Once a decision has been reached, I will be starting a new thread, though I am not sure where it will be heading.

Let me know what you've got going on with Drapol no matter its location. Might be somewhat interesting to me to poke that hornets nest.
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a dude.
------------
Part of A Modern World RP group.

User avatar
Walmington on Sea
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 478
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:44 pm

Sulawesi it is. Let us appreciate the Directors like it is whatever blessed year in which AMW came to be!

Sula-besi, the iron island, trumps the various other options I have considered.

In fact I have been held back almost exclusively by my feeling that the indigenous fauna is not exactly what I had imagined for Dra-pol, the wildcat country being poorly served by the likes of the Sulawesi palm civet. Never the less, if I ascribe supernatural powers to said creature in Drapoel folklore ((and assume historic import of certain other beasts)) that issue should not prove prohibitive.

Picture it on a map, an independent nation state, and Sulawesi is... well, is it not just the right shape to be Dra-pol? A peninsula for each of the four historic kingdoms -Su'drap, Pin'drap, Ide, and Ke- that would eventually be united at Da'Khiem ((perhaps at Lake Poso)) and set firmly against the rest of the world.

The population is last estimated at 18,455,058 and probably rising ((compared with almost 34 million for Cambodia and the Mekong delta in Vietnam, where Dra-pol's place has been lately held)), and the island provides sufficient agricultural potential for my aims in Dra-pol.

In addition to shifting Dra-pol to Sulawesi, I should like to add the Moluccas -Maluku and North Maluku- to Wamington. This increases by some 2,844,131 the subjects, citizens, and protected persons of the Godfreyite realm.

I intend that, early in the Age of Sail, people now known as Walmingtonian should have begun the Christian colonisation of the eastern parts of what we know in reality as Indonesia. The Moluccas, with their unique spices, were the draw, and the larger island of Dra-pol was intended to be the anchor to which the Walmingtonian Far East could be secured.

It is through one of history's most brutal conflicts that Dra-pol breaks free of Walmington, while the near-by Moluccas remain under the yoke, tending the embers of Godfreyite interest in the region and tempting the Imperial Federation always to rejoin the fray upon the iron shores.

I would use these changes to build on the nature of the Imperial Federation. Regard!:

The old kingdoms of Angleland, Amberland, and Norbray united under one crown, and built an empire. When that empire began to crumble, the united kingdom reconstituted itself a federation, the three constituents becoming dominions of the one crown while the major colonies of Albany, Newfoundland, the Canadas, and the Fortunate Isles were raised to said same status, and the King of the Godfreyites came to rule seven Dominions.

His Godfreyite Majesty would also grant to private companies two royal charters by which to administer on his behalf the colonies of the Green Cape and Waynesia, while the Dominions would maintain a number of Overseas Territories, being Newry, Greenland, Coldshore; Saint Helena, Ascension, and Wendsleybury; and Gibraltar.

Now, the Dominions -chiefly those three which had been kingdoms-, shall retain the right to pursue colonial endeavours of their own, and so we find Honduras and what I had called the West Indies, the Spice Islands, the Indian Ocean Territory, Ceyloba, and the East Indies colonised variously by Angleland, Amberland, and others, and then subjugated by those states to the royal authority of the Imperial Federation.

I am inclined to drop the Lakshadweep and move, 'Ceyloba' to the Moluccas. That larger territory seems far more worth fighting for, and I can imagine the fateful intervention of a *Chrinthani* Admiral Coney saving an otherwise doomed Angleish outpost from apparently imminent destruction ((there is a pre-AMW reference for anyone ancient enough to recall!)), perhaps later to rue that action.

There shall be scope for other colonially-inclined nations to hold or to have held concessions on the new Drapoel coast, and any who wish to involve themselves in wars current or historic will find plenty of scope in this proposal.

These meandering paragraphs shall be given flesh, but now I plant my flag and retire for the evening.
Factbook
The world continues to offer glittering prizes to those who have stout hearts and sharp swords.
-1st Earl of Birkenhead

User avatar
Chrinthanium
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14117
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:41 pm

Walmington on Sea wrote:Sulawesi it is. Let us appreciate the Directors like it is whatever blessed year in which AMW came to be!

Sula-besi, the iron island, trumps the various other options I have considered.

In fact I have been held back almost exclusively by my feeling that the indigenous fauna is not exactly what I had imagined for Dra-pol, the wildcat country being poorly served by the likes of the Sulawesi palm civet. Never the less, if I ascribe supernatural powers to said creature in Drapoel folklore ((and assume historic import of certain other beasts)) that issue should not prove prohibitive.

Picture it on a map, an independent nation state, and Sulawesi is... well, is it not just the right shape to be Dra-pol? A peninsula for each of the four historic kingdoms -Su'drap, Pin'drap, Ide, and Ke- that would eventually be united at Da'Khiem ((perhaps at Lake Poso)) and set firmly against the rest of the world.

The population is last estimated at 18,455,058 and probably rising ((compared with almost 34 million for Cambodia and the Mekong delta in Vietnam, where Dra-pol's place has been lately held)), and the island provides sufficient agricultural potential for my aims in Dra-pol.

In addition to shifting Dra-pol to Sulawesi, I should like to add the Moluccas -Maluku and North Maluku- to Wamington. This increases by some 2,844,131 the subjects, citizens, and protected persons of the Godfreyite realm.

I intend that, early in the Age of Sail, people now known as Walmingtonian should have begun the Christian colonisation of the eastern parts of what we know in reality as Indonesia. The Moluccas, with their unique spices, were the draw, and the larger island of Dra-pol was intended to be the anchor to which the Walmingtonian Far East could be secured.

It is through one of history's most brutal conflicts that Dra-pol breaks free of Walmington, while the near-by Moluccas remain under the yoke, tending the embers of Godfreyite interest in the region and tempting the Imperial Federation always to rejoin the fray upon the iron shores.

I would use these changes to build on the nature of the Imperial Federation. Regard!:

The old kingdoms of Angleland, Amberland, and Norbray united under one crown, and built an empire. When that empire began to crumble, the united kingdom reconstituted itself a federation, the three constituents becoming dominions of the one crown while the major colonies of Albany, Newfoundland, the Canadas, and the Fortunate Isles were raised to said same status, and the King of the Godfreyites came to rule seven Dominions.

His Godfreyite Majesty would also grant to private companies two royal charters by which to administer on his behalf the colonies of the Green Cape and Waynesia, while the Dominions would maintain a number of Overseas Territories, being Newry, Greenland, Coldshore; Saint Helena, Ascension, and Wendsleybury; and Gibraltar.

Now, the Dominions -chiefly those three which had been kingdoms-, shall retain the right to pursue colonial endeavours of their own, and so we find Honduras and what I had called the West Indies, the Spice Islands, the Indian Ocean Territory, Ceyloba, and the East Indies colonised variously by Angleland, Amberland, and others, and then subjugated by those states to the royal authority of the Imperial Federation.

I am inclined to drop the Lakshadweep and move, 'Ceyloba' to the Moluccas. That larger territory seems far more worth fighting for, and I can imagine the fateful intervention of a *Chrinthani* Admiral Coney saving an otherwise doomed Angleish outpost from apparently imminent destruction ((there is a pre-AMW reference for anyone ancient enough to recall!)), perhaps later to rue that action.

There shall be scope for other colonially-inclined nations to hold or to have held concessions on the new Drapoel coast, and any who wish to involve themselves in wars current or historic will find plenty of scope in this proposal.

These meandering paragraphs shall be given flesh, but now I plant my flag and retire for the evening.

That pre-AMW reference is completely lost on me, sadly. If I know more about that particular scene, then I can tell you yes or no.

As far as the shift, it has my complete support. Puts Drapol a bit closer to Chrinthania than I prefer (because reasons), but it isn't like they've become a massive superpower at this time. Anyway, feel free to toss England/Britain into Drapol history as it suits you. With British history being more-or-less "We colonized stuff and here we are today" it could definitely use some.... stuff.
About Me: Just your typical aging gay man trying desperately to retain what youth remains within himself.
Always remember you are loved and cherished. You are my friend and that means the world to me!
You can address me as "Your Indefatigable Greatness" or "Chrin." Whichever you choose. I'm not picky. Also, the pronoun is "he" since I'm a dude.
------------
Part of A Modern World RP group.

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