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by The Kingdom of Apilonia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:43 pm
by Marimaia » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:56 pm
The Crooked Beat wrote:Hello everyone!
Significant developments currently underway will obviously require a more detailed response than this one, though if it isn't too little to count I'd at the very least like to declare (undoubtedly an over-grand word!) my continued interest in AMW. Gandvik, it appears, has missed the bus on this reboot, though of course that's no great loss!
Anyhow, the first idea for a new claim that springs to mind is a return to Iberia and the remainder of Spain, minus the Canary islands of course. I'd plan on repeating as many of Gandvik's qualities as practical, so this new Spain, which I'd probably try to give a predominantly Basque-Celtic population, would be a relatively turbulent society governed by a corporatist union of military, trade-union, and bureaucratic interests. Clearly a direct echo of the all-too-real evils of Francisco Franco is not desirable, so in my imagining this would steer much more closely to a Peronist course, authoritarian, certainly, and deeply corrupt, though not particularly violent and inclined to what is perhaps a dangerous leniency towards political opponents. More a problem of too little control, rather than too much. In place of RL Spain's high Catholicism I'd plan to substitute a deeply austere and Puritanical Calvinist-informed state church, theoretically supreme over a fractious mosaic of Christian and pre-Christian religions, many of which would stand to be insurgent in some fashion.
While this Spanish state would almost certainly be a heavily-militarized one, and probably a nuclear power, universal conscription and a high numerical strength would not, as in Gandvik, necessarily equal formidable power. Like in Gandvik, the mass of relatively poorly-equipped, indifferently-trained, and unmotivated national servicemen might well look upon the ideologically-pure elite formations as a more dangerous enemy than any prospective foreign power, while the highest level of military command would constitute a political arena in its own right.
A state-socialist economy would strongly emphasize export-oriented manufacturing, though GDP wouldn't exceed half of RL Spain's and might conceivably fall below that. All in all, a more dour, poorer, Protestant Spain, governed somewhat chaotically.
Above all, though, Ian definitely has veto power over this proposal. While I cannot for a moment pretend that I've ever been a model neighbor, and while I understand wholeheartedly if Ian would prefer not to repeat that dynamic, I do at least promise a degree of stability and a cooperative attitude with respect to historical matters and current relations. Indeed, this Basque-Calvinist Spain might, in my mind at least, provide Shieldian political forces across the spectrum with a useful rhetorical device, a looming foreign danger with a history of aggression yet whose clumsiness and internal divisions make it very much a paper tiger.
Some manner of colonial past would seem warranted, and a colonial present too, though as to exactly where, I'm not at all sure. Perhaps Western Sahara plus Mauritania, a handful of Indian Ocean islands, Reunion, certain of the French Antarctic Lands (which I've always found fascinating), and then the Maluku islands? Population would be Spain's 46 million (minus the Canaries) plus a colonial populace numbering in the region of six million.
Does this strike the involved parties as acceptable?
by Chrinthanium » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:01 pm
by Chrinthanium » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:30 pm
by Iansisle » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:55 pm
by Europe - Prussia » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:48 pm
Latin Alliance (LATAL)
Claim: France (including overseas territories except Saint Pierre and Miquelon and Reunion if it is claimed?), Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Vatican City, San Marino, Malta, Greece.
Population: 160,794,623France: 67,848,156
Italy: 62,402,659
Switzerland: 8,403,994
Austria: 8,859,449
Slovenia: 2,102,678
Mónaco: 39,000
Liechtenstein: 39,137
Vatican City: 1,000
San Marino: 34,232
Malta: 457,267
Greece: 10,607,051
Demonym: Latin, Others (varies by nationality)
Capital: Geneva (de facto)
Government: Confederation
Grand Councillor of the Alliance (Head of State): Giovanni Fortuna
High Commissioner (Head of Government): Elisabetta Von Baltzer
Legislature: Alliance Parliament
GDP: $5,888,402 mill.
GDP per capita: $36,620
Currency: Latium
History
The history of the Latin Alliance runs almost parallel with ours, with the breaking point being Napoleon’s ascension to emperorship. There’s 2 points before Napoleon that deviates though: first, the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) is still formed, centered around France, but with the consequence that France is much more fragmented, like Germany before its unification, and with the efforts of the french king-emperors to centralize the state being somewhat ineffective. The other deviant point is centered on Switzerland: the Swiss Confederacy is still formed in 1291, but as an elective monarchy.
The rest play up as closely as possible to our history: internal strife everywhere, the emperor and pope fighting for every possible reason, the crown of the HRE goes hopping around dynasties until it falls on the Valois and Bourbon families, religious conflicts (there’s no Martin Luther, but John Calvin and Huldrych Zwingli are around), the spread of enlightenment, the french revolution (which kills the HRE, through the pope tries to keep it alive by crowning the king of Naples emperor, to no avail), the subsequent revolutionary wars, and finally Napoleon.
Unlike our history, Napoleon is able to keep himself in power until 1837, when he finally succumbed to stomach cancer. His son assumed the throne, but without Napoleon’s forceful personality and the ever-growing ambitions of Talleyrand and the imperial marshalls the french empire eventually collapses in 1848, starting a long period of instability; in the following years, until the XX century, governments of every flavor of the political spectrum would take power in France, only to collapse shortly thereafter.
It was following this chaos that a forerunner and antecedent to the modern Alliance was created; in 1855, the alpine states declared the creation of a customs union, followed by a mutual defense treaty in 1859, mostly as a response to increased hostilities of the King of Naples and Bourbon-led France. This led to the creation of 3 power blocks in the region, locked in constant conflict: France, which would be led by royalty until the 1890’s, Naples, which was backed by the Pope, and the alpine states.
By the 1900’s however, the situation changed: the Third French Republic was established in 1885, after overthrowing the last royal that tried to emulate Napoleon, revolution wrecked Naples in 1890, which ended with the overthrow of the royal family and the creation of the Republics of Naples and Sicily, and the alpine allied states finally unified into one state in 1899, called the Helvetian Commonwealth. Also, around 1885 the ideology of pan-latinism, which promoted the unificacion of the romance people in a democratic confederation, was formed on the city of Marseille, which quickly began to gain adherents through the major cities of both sides of the Alps.
It was in this context that the Alliance’s cornerstone was laid: through the first decade of the XX century, french government officials began to make inquiries with the Commonwealth for the creation of a Franco-Helvetian Alliance, patterned after the old alpine alliance, but with a far greater depth than a mere economic and military agreement, one founded on the principles of democracy, liberty and equality. The new alpine government was receptive to the idea, so formal talks were held through the 1900’s, but at their insistence, Naples was invited to the talks. Finally, a definite agreement was signed between the 3 countries in 1912, the Geneva Pact, a document which would eventually become the basis of the Alliance’s legal framework.
Through originally intended to be only a partnership between France, Helvetia and Naples, the minor states of the french riviera and northern Italy began to show interest in the project, mostly due the economic opportunities it represented. This interest delayed the timeframe laid out by the Geneva Pact, but french and helvetian diplomats worked around it, understanding the opportunity in front of them.
Finally, on August 1st, 1925, the Latin Alliance was founded on the city of Geneva, with its first members being the Republic of France, the Helvetian Commonwealth, the Republic of Naples, the Republic of Toulouse, the Kingdom of Lombardy and the Venetian Republic.
From this point on, the history of the Alliance would consist of the continuation of the slow process of integration, while the minor states on the french and italian regions would join one by one. The sole exception would be the Papal States, which would remain stubbornly isolationist, reverting to some of its worst practices of the past. They “seemingly” had a change of attitude during 1963 when a new pope was elected, a poor sop was who was recently elevated to bishop before the election. However, overtly ambitious cardinals, people dreaming of past glories and popular revolt seeking a democratic government eventually led to the collapse of the Papal States, the entrance of Alliance troops to Rome to restore order and the Pope began to call himself a "Prisoner in the Vatican".
Today, the future of the Alliance is bright: the integration of its members states is going apace, while a new member, Greece, is being welcomed into its ranks. However, there’s also a lot of troubles on the horizon: France is being rocked by political scandals, forcing Helvetia to bear its burden and assume a position of leadership within the Alliance; the mafiosi in Sicily and southern Naples are resisting more fiercely than ever the integration of the states, knowing that a strong Latin Alliance would mean their end; and on Rome, the Pope is nearing the end of his life, still stubbornly clinging to the title of "prisoner", even through the Alliance has tried to negotiate with him before.
Government
The foundation and legal framework of the Alliance is contained on the Foundational Treaty of the Latin Alliance, better known as the Treaty of Geneva; it laids out the Alliance’s main objectives (integration and solidarity among its members, rooted on common history, values, culture and heritage), its main commitments towards its members, obligations and rights of each member-state and its citizens, and a general outline of the Alliance’s main institutions, which are further detailed in other treaties.
The Latin Alliance has nine institutions which charter its overall course, known as the 9 pillars:
- 1) The Latin Council, which is a collegiate body that gathers the heads of state/government of the Alliance. It sets the general direction the Alliance will take, and its decisions are taken by simple majority. The Council gathers every three months, unless an emergency meeting is called. Collectively, they are the Head of State of the Alliance, but for practical purposes they elect a person to represent them, the Grand Councillor of the Alliance, for a term of two years; this Grand Councillor carries out the day-to-day duties of a head of state, carries out the will of the Council, and is the Alliance’s chief diplomatic officer, and from this position the Grand Councillor is tasked with the negotiations between the Alliance and other countries interested in joining, either as associates or full-time members. The Latin Diplomatic Service is under its purview, and is led directly by the Grand Councillor.
- 2) The Alliance Parliament, which gathers elected representatives from each member state. Unlike a normal legislative, each member state has three seats in the Parliament allocated to them, which they can fill following any procedure they wish, provided it is through democratic means. They review and vote laws that concern the Alliance as a whole, like its budget, civil service, military, among other things. The Parliament also elects the High Commissioner, the Alliance’s Head of Government, for a term of four years; the High Commissioner directs the Alliance’s administration and is the head of its Civil Service, and overall concerns itself with the Alliance’s inner workings and the further integration of its members.
- 3) The Court of Justice of the Latin Alliance, which reviews and resolves disputes between states, between states and Alliance’s institutions and between citizens and states / Alliance’s institutions. The Court can also issue opinions over certain matters upon the request of a member state or a citizen. The Alliance Judicial Network, which coordinates judicial cooperation among the member states, is under the Court of Justice’s purview.
- 4) The Latin Defense Forces, tasked with the external defense of the Alliance, the protection of its interests and of the sovereignty of the member states. The Directorate of External Security is under its purview.
- 5) The Alliance Law Enforcement Agency, which is responsible with the internal security and defense of the alliance; its tasked with the gathering of criminal and internal intelligence, the coordination of the law enforcement agencies of the member states and, in case a crime has been committed across various member states, the power to actively investigate and carry out arrests. The Directorate of Internal Security is under its purview.
- 6) The Latin Central Bank, responsible for the alliance’s monetary policy, ensuring financial stability, and monetary strategies. It is the sole issuer of the alliance’s currency, the Latium.
- 7) The Latin Corps of Auditors, responsible for the internal audit of the alliance’s institutions, ensuring there’s a proper management of finances and that the institutions adhere to the treaties, laws and directives of the Alliance. Latin Gendarmerie Taskforce is under its purview, though this taskforce also follows the commands of the Alliance Law Enforcement Agency.
- 8) The Galileo Institute of Science and Technology, tasked with the technological development of the Alliance; it coordinates the efforts of the various universities and institutes across the member states, and is the biggest source funding for scientific projects, either through grants or scholarships. The Alliance Space Authority and the Latin Atomic Agency are under is purview.
- 9) The DaVinci Initiative of Arts and Culture, tasked with the protection and promotion of the culture and heritage of alliance and its member states. Like the Galileo Institute, it coordinates between the universities, institutes and conservatories of the member states and gives grants and scholarships to artistic, cultural and conservation projects. The importance of this institution, and its status as pillar, stems from the ample powers it has in order to protect the Alliance’s common greco-roman heritage, and usually it is the first point of contact between the alliance and prospective members.
by Chrinthanium » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 pm
Europe - Prussia wrote:
--SNIP--
by Iansisle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:59 pm
by Marimaia » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:02 am
Iansisle wrote:In other news, I'd like to finalize my claims. Hopefully the Caribbean Alliance is ok with having Shieldian colonization in Venezuela, so I'd like to add the other two ABCs (Aruba and Bonaire) as well as Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Barbados. I know adding a bunch of small islands will probably give Chrin fits but some risks must be run to make sure I have all that sweet sweet sugar money to have blown on fighting France.
by Chrinthanium » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:35 am
Iansisle wrote:E-P, if you're looking for someone to play the role of William of orange financing coalitions against the Sun King, the Shield is looking for a way to blow through a bunch of money and exhaust itself in the seventeenth century!
In other news, I'd like to finalize my claims. Hopefully the Caribbean Alliance is ok with having Shieldian colonization in Venezuela, so I'd like to add the other two ABCs (Aruba and Bonaire) as well as Grenada, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Barbados. I know adding a bunch of small islands will probably give Chrin fits but some risks must be run to make sure I have all that sweet sweet sugar money to have blown on fighting France.
Should end up giving the Shield a continental population of about ten million and a colonial population a bit over a million, although I am considering having some areas be independent microstates under the larger claim (ie: splinter republics formed during the revolution and not yet fully reintegrated). It's possible I will conspire with BG to see if he's interested in a three way proxy war between moderate independents, Shieldian colonists and Geletian insurgents in the Maldives.
Other historical thoughts: as personally distasteful as it is to me, it does seem likely the Shield's Caribbean empire would have been built on the back of slave labor. I hope Walmington remains as fastly abolitionist in this incarnation as it was in previous versions and would be only too happy to lose a way over the slave trade. Perhaps that is what led to the independence of the mainland colonies?
I also wouldn't mind getting into a scrap with the Geletians over a pig. That was always fun. And should we assume that historically not-Gandvik was sliced into microstates, or that the Shield used to be larger and better able to defend against it's larger Iberian neighbor before poor management and conflict led to it being pushed back to Portugal's borders?
Cheers, all
by Walmington on Sea » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:48 pm
by Chrinthanium » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:18 pm
by Chrinthanium » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:22 pm
by Bala Mantre » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:08 pm
Chrinthanium wrote:As of this moment, barring maybe something I might have forgotten (I feel I did forget something, but I can't figure it out), this is what we currently look like in AMW.
https://i.imgur.com/msH4Xbi.png
Bala Mantre wrote:Except the mirrors are destroyed by the shear power of the Queen of England
5.684 Million Total Cases +120|169,580 Deaths +200|2.9 Million Recovered +3000|Bala Mantrean States to be under lockdown until Feburary 14th, 2021| Prime Minister Ian Pavlow wins his second term|Democrats yell fraud as the Senate and Parliament is now both Republican Dominated
by Chrinthanium » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:54 pm
Bala Mantre wrote:Chrinthanium wrote:As of this moment, barring maybe something I might have forgotten (I feel I did forget something, but I can't figure it out), this is what we currently look like in AMW.
https://i.imgur.com/msH4Xbi.png
Is there anything I should know that is truly important?
by The Crooked Beat » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:31 pm
by Chrinthanium » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:44 pm
The Crooked Beat wrote:To begin with, as for the Maluku Islands, I certainly didn't mean for this to cause any controversy, and as goes for any aspect of what I suppose I'll provisionally call Ezpanna, it is entirely negotiable. Again, like the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, my thinking here was that the Malukus were a sparsely-populated and, at the moment at least, somewhat peripheral area of great historical, ecological, and geographical interest which could provide a simultaneously colorful and unobtrusive imperial vestige. If this is a sticking point, I'll drop it.
I suppose I'd also be interested in adding Mauritius, if possible, as a sort of bridge between Africa and the Malukus.
Providing that is the only major objection, let me list the territories in question, together with main particulars:
-Spain (not including the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, or the plazas de soberanía): 44,408,385 people
-Mauritania: 4,403,313 people
-Western Sahara: 567,402 people
-French Southern and Antarctic Lands: no permanent population
-Maluku Islands (including Indonesian provinces of Maluku and North Maluku): 1,768,500 + 1,235,700 = 3,004,200 people
-Mauritius (including Rodrigues, Agalega and Saint Brandon): 1,265,985 people
Which yields a prospective total population of 52,383,300 without Mauritius, or 53,649,285 all-inclusive.
I have no objections to any other of the proposals made so far, and, to address those probably most relevant to Ezpanna's affairs, I'll fully endorse Iansisle and Walmington as well. Ceuta, I think, would make for a logical extension of Walmingtonian power into the Mediterranean, at least historically, and might well have worked as an important historical source of conflict, together with Gibraltar. It seems entirely possible that Walmington would have seized that particular Ezpannan (Hispanian?) outpost in the course of some early-modern war.
As for historical matters and questions of present-day international relations, I'll attempt to address those on the other thread.
by Chrinthanium » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:08 pm
The Crooked Beat wrote:To begin with, as for the Maluku Islands, I certainly didn't mean for this to cause any controversy, and as goes for any aspect of what I suppose I'll provisionally call Ezpanna, it is entirely negotiable. Again, like the French Southern and Antarctic Lands, my thinking here was that the Malukus were a sparsely-populated and, at the moment at least, somewhat peripheral area of great historical, ecological, and geographical interest which could provide a simultaneously colorful and unobtrusive imperial vestige. If this is a sticking point, I'll drop it.
I suppose I'd also be interested in adding Mauritius, if possible, as a sort of bridge between Africa and the Malukus.
Providing that is the only major objection, let me list the territories in question, together with main particulars:
-Spain (not including the Canary Islands, Ceuta, Melilla, or the plazas de soberanía): 44,408,385 people
-Mauritania: 4,403,313 people
-Western Sahara: 567,402 people
-French Southern and Antarctic Lands: no permanent population
-Maluku Islands (including Indonesian provinces of Maluku and North Maluku): 1,768,500 + 1,235,700 = 3,004,200 people
-Mauritius (including Rodrigues, Agalega and Saint Brandon): 1,265,985 people
Which yields a prospective total population of 52,383,300 without Mauritius, or 53,649,285 all-inclusive.
I have no objections to any other of the proposals made so far, and, to address those probably most relevant to Ezpanna's affairs, I'll fully endorse Iansisle and Walmington as well. Ceuta, I think, would make for a logical extension of Walmingtonian power into the Mediterranean, at least historically, and might well have worked as an important historical source of conflict, together with Gibraltar. It seems entirely possible that Walmington would have seized that particular Ezpannan (Hispanian?) outpost in the course of some early-modern war.
As for historical matters and questions of present-day international relations, I'll attempt to address those on the other thread.
by Chemaki » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:01 pm
by Chrinthanium » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:09 pm
Chemaki wrote:Hi all! Sorry for being a bit late with this, but here is my outlined claim for Romnika, prettying up the borders a bit, getting nice and cosy with Chrin's Russia and making it just a little beefier and more threatening. I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different). Stay tuned! Oh, and Chrin, I want a nice red this time!
Claim: https://i.imgur.com/H98Rfjv.png
Israel, Palestinian Territories, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Georgia (excluding Kakheti), Armenia (excluding Syunik and Vayots Dzor), Turkey (Hatay, Kilis, Gazianstep, Sanliurfa, Mardin, Sirnak, Hakkari, Van, Bitlis, Siirt, Batman, Diyarbakir, Agri, Igdir, Kars, Ardahan, Erzurum, Artvin, Rize, Trabzon, Gumushane, Giresun, Tunceli, Bingol, Mus, Elazig, Malatya, K. Maras, Osmaniye, Adana, Mersin, Karaman, Konya, Aksaray, Nevsehir, Kayseri, Sivas, Tokat, Ordu, Kirsehir, Yozgat, Antalya districts of Serik, Manavgat, Ibradi, Akeski, Gundogmus, Alanya, Gazipasa)
Population: 121,564,000
GDP: $845 billion ($2.09 trillion PPP)
GDP Per Capita: $6,950 ($17,250 PPP)
Population calculation breakdown:
Israel: 8.712 million
Palestinian Territories: 5.052 million
Syria: 18.27 million
Lebanon: 6.082 million
Iraq: 38.270 million
Jordan: 9.702 million
Georgia: 3.398 million
Armenia: 2.753 million
Turkey: 29.325 million
by Chemaki » Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:32 am
Chrinthanium wrote:That's what it would look like. Honestly, I'm kind of curious why you stopped where you stopped. It doesn't seem to make sense to me. I'd have gone and taken all of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. And maybe not filled in half of Anatolia. It just looks like your people stopped because they got bored and that's it. Or, I would have not filled in pieces of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia and stopped without taking any of Turkey. That's what I think would have been done. These partial states are so much more difficult to calculate population.
by Beddgelert » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:20 pm
by Marimaia » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:46 pm
by The Kingdom of Apilonia » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:13 am
by Europe - Prussia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:44 pm
Chemaki wrote: (...) I'll put up a new history this weekend to fit better with what's written (especially with the Latin Alliance, I need to ask E-P if he's planning to have Greece as some offshoot of a Byzantine Empire like the previous AMW iteration, or something different) (...)
Chemaki wrote: (...) I do agree with you about the difficulty of calculating Turkey, though. That is a nightmare. But, at the end of the day, I don't want to take the whole thing. Romnika was never intentended to have any part in Europe, and whilst it's meant to be a distant offshoot of some old Byzantine or Roman Empire, it was never intended to be a direct successor (so I don't want to touch the Bosphorous). I thought that claiming was much as I did, it would leave 51 million people for sizable Greek/Turkish claim if someone wanted to go for that, but it does seem a little unlikely. I might throw E-P a message and see if he's interested in taking European Turkey and the Western Coast of Asian Turkey and I'd snag up the rest Anatolia - the way, it's still a ballache to calculate like any split Turkey claim, but once it's sorted, it's sorted (until either Romnika or the Latin Empire CTE's).
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