A Modern World (AMW) Applications Center

[Beddgelert]

Looks pretty good to me, Zentrus. Detail, rational, willingness to engage and modify. What's not to like?

I was *this* close to ripping-off Cybersyn for Soviet India, and may yet end up using something comparable, so I'm a little bit biased, but still, I'd like to see this claim come to life, I think.

¡Venceremos!

[Zentrus]

Haha, great, someone else knows about Cybersyn, awesome. Just makes me more confident about my decision to apply to you guys!

[Chrinthanium]

Haha, great, someone else knows about Cybersyn, awesome. Just makes me more confident about my decision to apply to you guys!

If it's communism related, Beddgelert knows about it. He does play Soviet India after all.

[Chrinthanium]

Haha, great, someone else knows about Cybersyn, awesome. Just makes me more confident about my decision to apply to you guys!

I suppose that I can say that no real objections have been raised. I know you've been discussed in our IRC room (which you can reach via any IRC client by pointing it at irc.esper.net and then /join#AMW or through www.mibbit.com and using the drop-down menu to select Esper and then /join #AMW) and talk with us. I know we've talked about your GDP and your claim, but I believe we can work on that in-house rather than going over it through the apps process itself. You can view AMW thread via this link which is also linked at the top of this application thread.

I think you should note some things.. firstly, Melilla, Ceuta, and the Canary Islands, which are part of RL Spain, were claimed a while ago by other members. Madeira and the Azores, which are part of Portugal, have already been claimed. Monaco has not been claim, but it is surrounded entirely by you, so you might want to nab that.

The app process boils down to posting your app and waiting for people to review it and kind of object or comment on it. Most AMWers have had a chance to at least skim the contents at this point.

I think you can go ahead and start factbooking if you wish. You may take advantage of the factbook system on your nation page or you can create a forum-side factbook via the Factbooks and National Information index. I'd say to use the offiste as well, but most AMWers have long since abandoned that and left it to be a preserve of previous discussions.

Let me be the first to tell you welcome to A Modern World. Now, let's have fun!

[Zentrus]

Awesome! Thanks for the welcome. I'll join your discussion channel later tonight if I have any time at all; I've been insanely busy these last few days. I look forward to RPing with you guys!

[Chrinthanium]

Right.... map and things....

NEW MAP: http://i.imgur.com/sgwKDEt.png

TUGS has been given a light yellowish-white-ish color. Drapol has been recolored to Wild Watermelon. Amerique's America is now vaguely Army Green and Ireland is, at least according to Wiki, Emerald Green.

[AMW Applications]

Map is updated: https://i.imgur.com/dKp4Uu1.png

[Roania]

The Great Shun (DaShun) 大順; Celestial Empire, China
Claimed Territory: East Asia (Sinosphere)
Required: China (including Manchuria, Tibet), Mongolia
Nice to have: North Vietnam
Ideal: North Korea
Pluperfect: South Korea, Japanese Home Isles (excluding Hokkaido and points north), South Vietnam
Population: An ever increasing sea of largely illiterate agrarian peasants and a much smaller urban base. Plus nomadic tribes only loosely connected to central authority, tributary states that only ever unite against an external invader, and feudatories.
Demonym: 'Chinese', 'Japanese', 'Korean', etc.
Preferred Demonym: 'Celestial', 'Imperial'
Capital: Stay with me, here it gets complicated
Imperial Capital:Huanjing (Formerly Kaifeng)
Kingdom of Nanzhao-Yunnan: Dali(?)
Mongolia: The Great Meeting
Manchuria: The Sacred Mountain
Tibet: Various; formally Lhasa (no central government exists beyond llamas, imperial rule is limited largely to settling tribal grievances and approving succession)
Feudatory of Guanzhao: Shanghai
Feudatory of Later Min: Fujian
Feudatory of Second Ming: Nanjing
Feudatory of Second Qii: Henan
Tributary State of Yi (Korea): Seoul (south), Pyongyang (north)
Empire of Vietnam: various leagued princes, Emperor (Ly Dynasty) resident in Hanoi since 1822
Government: Empire and Tributary States
Huangdi: Qinzi Emperor
Chancellor Yuan Shiia
King in Dali (chinese name): Mai Yun
Prince in Shanghai: Mao Qaian
Prince in Fujian: Wa Xi
Prince of Henan: Bai Shuyi
Prince in Nanjing: Zhu Rongji
King of Yi (Korea): Yi Ban Mi
Prince of the NorthEast (Manchuria) Aisin Oiso
Emperor of Vietnam: Dhai Khai
Dalai Lama: Yes.

GDP: Unknown, unknowabale, and not particularly of interest to the Mandarins or their local subjects. Taxes come in, taxes go out. The seasons follow their cycle. What does it matter?

Attitude towards foreigners: Feudatories and Vietnam welcome foreigners.Foreigners are not permitted in Yi under any circumstances, and even other celestials are usually unwelcome without the full weight of the Huangdi behind them. This hasn't happened since the 1940s. Central China has little interest in foreigners, and little interest for foreigners. Ambassadors are welcome, and are accredited to the Emperor in Kaifeng, but not much happens that would interest foreigners there; most interest is at the various consulates in the tributary states, Edo and Vietnam.
Religion: The only religion unwelcome in the Central Empire as a whole is Christianity; not from any necessary bias, but because a Pope in ages past insulted one of the more active Emperors of the present dynasty. Nevertheless, there are christian churches in foreign districts, and low key missionary activity has been successful in points of Nippon, Vietnam and Nanzhao-Yunnan.
Military: The only war the Empire is equipped to fight is a defensive war; vast numbers can be pressed into service at need, to overwhelm any aggressors. The army is tied up along various border points and patrols, and is usually best thought of as an overgrown police force. The core of a full army are the Brocade Guards in Kaifeng, the modernized Samurai of the Taikunate, and the nomads of the north and northeast. The primary rifle is the YunFa 44, a perfectly serviceable (if not particularly exciting) assault rifle. Primary tank is the Type 33, which makes up for its primitive features with a solid main gun and pure numbers.

The national airforce is best described as non-existent; important sites were fortified decades if not centuries ago and have been updated with purchased or native AA weaponry, the former preferred to the latter for quality purposes. Nanzhao and the Second Ming possess a number of aging fighters, and all feudatories are on the lookout to purchase more modern technology. The Brocade Guards have fielded a few last-generation fighters, but there is no institutionalized training regimen beyond owners' manuals and practice.

There is no Imperial Navy, as such; the Imperial Merchant Marine owns a number of warships that are usually used for convoy, and a number of older ships are kept mothballed on the Yellow Sea. The Brocade Guards and the Imperial Army both maintain a riverine fleet. The four feudatories have small navies of their own, usually used and intended for anti-piracy and piracy on each other. Guanzhao recently built the first aircraft carrier in Celestial history, which has spurred a bit of an arms race. Vietnam and Korea maintain small brown water navies. Nanzhao, being without a coast (or even a major river), has no navy.

Foreign Ambitions and Interests: None. You have nothing the Emperor wants. Except for kites. He's a big fan of kites. The Mandarins, by and large, want peace. The feudatories and friendlier tributary states are more modern in their outlook, if hideously corrupt. Trade is welcome, investment welcome, foreigners welcome. Foreign ownership of local factories and resources... not so much.
Nuclear Ambitions: None.
Nuclear Capabilities: None. The Celestials have little interest in theoretical physics at their schools, which remain exclusively dominated by the humanities and end at the age of 16, though school leaving age in some provinces is 12. Beijing hosts an excellent university on modern lines, dating back to the late 19th century, and overs have recently opened in Edo, Xi'an, and Shanghai; as yet their effect has been minimal. Most engineering is learned on the job, master to apprentice. Theoretical science is still the preserve of very few, largely rich and retired, dilettantes.

When large portions of the interior aren't even electrified and the government has no interest in doing anything about that, nuclear power isn't on the agenda. Renewable power technology, especially dams and solar power, do have adherents at all levels of government, and construction on a dam on the Yellow River has been on and off the agenda for decades, with locations being sighted now.

[Chrinthanium]

Hey Ro! Good to see your application. I know we've discussed things on the Discord, so I'm relatively versed already in how you're trying to set this up.

I would lay off of claiming more than China and Mongolia. The rest.... as we say in AMW... would make a good claim for a future player.

A China + Mongolia with no military aspirations and as seemingly fractioned and factioned as it is doesn't seem to present a large threat to anyone (unless they have kites). I'll say that I'm for China + Mongolia in this setting. I'll let others comment on the specifics internally. China has been needed in AMW and you will give us a great new claim with a new large section of RP now potentially open.

[Roania]

The reason behind these claims is that in the 17th century there was a broad continuum of power between the borders of Vietnam and the southern part of the Korean Peninsula. Until late in the 19th century IRL, Korea was effectively an outlying province of Manchurian China.

In my framed alternative history, the Shun dynasty managed secure the loyalty of Ming's border generals, rather than alienated them, and drove the Qing out of the Shandong, Korea and Mongolia, then forced them to submit. They also took the time to subjugate the Koreans, since they were there anyway. Why not?

Preceding native dynasties had always attempted to subjugate the Vietnamese, especially in the Northern region. The name 'Annam', which the French later used for the whole state, derived from a Chinese name for the territory, which was part of China into the chaos following the collapse of the Tang Dynasty. The Song, Yuan and Ming all attempted to regain the territory, and the Ming succeeded for a very brief period of time, but didn't stop trying. It was part of 'all under heaven', and a native dynasty succeeding the Ming would eventually turn its efforts towards securing the frontier, helped by Vietnam's own internal struggles, which in this reality would end up also pulling the Chinese further south into Cham territory.

It actually makes more sense as part of the DaShun than either Tibet or the Manchurian lands, but I was told it's easier to include an entire country when possible.

[Chrinthanium]

The reason behind these claims is that in the 17th century there was a broad continuum of power between the borders of Vietnam and the southern part of the Korean Peninsula. Until late in the 19th century IRL, Korea was effectively an outlying province of Manchurian China.

In my framed alternative history, the Shun dynasty to secure the loyalty of Ming's border generals, rather than alienated them, and drove the Qing out of the Shandong, Korea and Mongolia, then forced them to submit. They also took the time to subjugate the Koreans, since they were there anyway. Why not?

Preceding native dynasties had always attempted to subjugate the Vietnamese, especially in the Northern region. The name 'Annam', which the French later used for the whole state, derived from a Tang name for the territory, which was part of China into the chaos following the collapse of the Song Dynasty. The Song, Yuan and Ming all attempted to regain the territory, and the Ming succeeded for a very brief period of time, but didn't stop trying. It was part of 'all under heaven', and a native dynasty succeeding the Ming would eventually turn its efforts towards securing the frontier, helped by Vietnam's own internal struggles, which in this reality would end up also pulling the Chinese further south into Cham territory.

It actually makes more sense as part of the DaShun than either Tibet or the Manchurian lands, but I was told it's easier to include an entire country when possible.

At least to the first-level subdivision (province, state). The map isn't perfect, but it's got enough detail that if you keep it to the provincial-level, it can be used.

See, this is new information I knew nothing about before you posted. You were going on about China and Mongolia, then your application has more choices than a preferential voting ballot written by George RR Martin. So, I am confused now. I'd say yes to Vietnam/part of Vietnam.... And since you're at never-before-attained population levels in AMW... why not add both South Korea and BEST KOREA and Japan because... it won't matter at the end of the day. It isn't like we're being bombarded with claims.

I fumbled my explanation of how native industry works in AMW in the Discord, so the nuts and bolts of it is... even if you decide you're stuck in the 1600s technologically, you still own whatever technology is native to the nations you claim. So, for example, if you claimed Japan, you have Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Nintendo... etc... even if you don't want them. Of course, if you don't want them, as the owner of that nation, you have the right to refuse to use it. That opens it up to other AMW nations to claim that tech. So, as you have described your nation, and as you have explained to me in Discord, you won't be using most of the things that Japan or Korea have created in their modern industrial capacity. That would free up a lot of things for AMW.... and I wouldn't be opposed to Chrinthania having a good car company and possibly Sony

[Roania]

After some thought and some discussion...

My ideas regarding Japan are self-justifying, and really only exist to fill a space on a map so a threatening power can't claim them. It interferes with the possibility of other new players stepping forward. So I don't need it because I would do nothing with it.

Claiming Korea would be nice, but it is by no means essential, and really my ideas for Korea prevent any interaction with the state, which defeats the purpose. I'm happy to leave the peninsula open for more creative people if the group feels it necessary. My imagination prevents the opening of Korea from taking place.

As for other regions...

The only reason I claimed Tibet is because it's part of modern China. If someone else wants Tibet, they can have Tibet. They can have Tibet even if I do claim it.

I claimed the country of Mongolia because part of the Mongolian nation is in China and it makes some sense to reunite them. Not really seeing much there, though there's some amusing thoughts of nomadic hordes running about the place.

Manchuria...same deal, fills a historical vacuum.

I don't particularly want or need East Turkestan/Xinjiang, though I can see the Shun moving in during a period of anarchy to establish order and being stuck.

I need China, as defined as 'the place where Han people and their fellows live', China's Bai Southwest, and I'd like Vietnam. Everything else is super negotiable.

[Marimaia]

After some thought and some discussion...

My ideas regarding Japan are self-justifying, and really only exist to fill a space on a map so a threatening power can't claim them. It interferes with the possibility of other new players stepping forward. So I don't need it because I would do nothing with it.

Claiming Korea would be nice, but it is by no means essential, and really my ideas for Korea prevent any interaction with the state, which defeats the purpose. I'm happy to leave the peninsula open for more creative people if the group feels it necessary. My imagination prevents the opening of Korea from taking place.

As for other regions...

The only reason I claimed Tibet is because it's part of modern China. If someone else wants Tibet, they can have Tibet. They can have Tibet even if I do claim it.

I claimed the country of Mongolia because part of the Mongolian nation is in China and it makes some sense to reunite them. Not really seeing much there, though there's some amusing thoughts of nomadic hordes running about the place.

Manchuria...same deal, fills a historical vacuum.

I don't particularly want or need East Turkestan/Xinjiang, though I can see the Shun moving in during a period of anarchy to establish order and being stuck.

I need China, as defined as 'the place where Han people and their fellows live', China's Bai Southwest, and I'd like Vietnam. Everything else is super negotiable.

Having read through the claim and the discussions on Discord, I think it's an imaginative concept with a lot of potential for the entire group to get involved with.

I would have absolutely no issue with you taking modern day China, Mongolia, the Korean Peninsula, and Vietnam if I'm honest. Obviously that's just the opinion of little old me, but the claim makes sense and to be honest it's nice to see Korea potentially going to a 'Chinese' claim rather than being bundled together with Japan. As Chrin rightly pointed out, we're not being bombarded with claims and in the grand scheme of things I can't see why Korea would be a no-go. If there's anything Korean which you're not using and other AMW'ers want then they can always claim the corporations/products/whatever.

[The Amyclae]

I'll stick around this time,

The idea is to have eight different nations within the one claim. The headline numbers incorporate modern day Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas, Sinaloa, Durango, Yucatan, Quintana Roo and Campeche. I'm posting this all here instead of the Discussion Thread for now because I imagine there might not be many objections to the idea as an idea, even given some of the ambiguities present, so it might be helpful in a time saving sense to get on with getting input to the application itself.

The theme is if I have a few different colors on the map it'll enable me to interact with different players in different contexts. To some extent we already do this historically--Spain fought France in such and such year, Spain allied with Walmington and, finding the crumpets unappetizing, retired from the field even until to the modern day etc etc. Now I will do it in real time in AMW's present. If it all has to be the same color on the map, I'd suggest the title to be something like "Central North America," or another geographic marker.

The primary dynamic is that the region is still full of echoes from an independence movement against Valendia (or anyone who would like to offer as an imperial book end). Instead of the region acquiring independence fully when it did historically, the idea is to push the dates back just enough to extend the timeline into the 1970s. In this we might have echoes of South Africa and other late blooming wars of colonial independence. Instead of Mexico's several civil wars and secession movements occurring in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, the secession and civil movements occur in the late 20th and early 21st. The separatist movements in this timeline win, given the presence of the Gulf States and the relative lack of counterbalancing stability as occurred historically (Walmington doesn't end up executing the filibusters, there's no centralized government in North America preventing incursions into the South like what happened historically etc).

Filibustering from the Gulf States also makes more than a appearance. Filibustering as in the act of private pro-slavery adventurers, "filibusteros," like in Nicaragua, acquiring the central governmental apparatus and running with it.

The first claim will be Chan Santa Cruz, which is a historical almost-nation from the 1900s. Ethnically Mayan, historically it was the goal of a long insurgency against Mexico City after their original super-federalist constitution was replaced with a more centralized document under Santa Anna (that Santa Anna). Added bonus: weird syncrenistic Mayan and Christian beliefs, melting pot etc etc. It'd be, for now, the precise boundaries of Quintana Roo. Since that name first came to me as the name of Joan Didion's deceased daughter, I'll likely change it later. For now I want to imagine a nation that wrested independence from the central government based on a primarily ethnic impetus, without its sister republic's religious overtones, which is complicated by the fact that right now Mexico City I leave to other players. Right now it's all "Here Be Dragons." If another player comes along I'll hash it out then, but the gist of it is a relatively advanced, powerful nation of indigenous Mayans.

The second claim will be Durango and Sinaloa. Whatever population they do have I'll likely be transferring a portion to the other nations as part of the leeway afforded to players claiming a track of land. The idea right now is a semi-peasant state integrated into Chihuahua, such as the Sami native region is to the rest of Finland. [1] The state will be its own "thing," perhaps we might make comparisons to Somaliland, but less violent; Caprivi Strip in Namibia or maybe Western Sahara these days. Easy environmental comparisons lend themselves here without much effort on my part.

The third claim will be modern day Chihuahua as El Estado Grande de Chihuahua y Tepehuanes--referencing the incorporation of the above styled claim alongside the more populous, wealthy and advanced "central" government in Chihuahua. I see this claim as the most "Hispanic" nation, a middle balance between the purely indigenous nations of the Yucatan and the filibuster regimes in the north. A carve out of centralizing desire and semi-imperialistic do good-er inhabiting a crossroads out of its capital-crossroads in Chihuahua. As I get my borders figured out the capital is likely to move north to El Paso, but that is to be decided on the map maker's abilities. If moving the territories like I imagine cannot happen, then Chihuahua's capital will remain eponymous.

The fourth claim will be the Yucutan Republic, based on modern day Yucuatan and Campeche and arising, like Chan Santa Cruz, from 20th Century separatist movements in that region that advocated for an independent Yucatan. At this point I will also make mention of an French-Algerian impostor dynamic in that to incorporate the Gulf States' Golden Circle fellows I'll incorporate those historic "filibusters" (as in William "the Grey Eyed Man of Destiny" Walker and other pro-slavery private adventurers) influences in the form of a major Gulf State expatriate/Gulf State identifying community. This would hopefully happen with Lusaka's permission of course.

The fifth claim will be Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas, with portions of Southern Texas, as the Suttree Republic. In this I will be attempting to smuggle in elements of Ethiopia's involvement in Eritrea and the filibusters of the Gulf States. My idea is that "the Republic" is ostensibly based out of what is now Corpus Christi (though for now would be just as happy with Monterey with the map situation), and going back to the 1900s was a branch/independence movement out of a to-be-decided empire (Valendia?) or central government (Mexico City?) that the filibusters overthrew. Liberal elements of the independence/revolution invited "filibustering" elements from Lubbock (see below) and the Gulf States to assist them in the counter-counter revolution of papist and conservative elements within the country but found themselves at the mercy of the filibusters. The filibusters, in turn, consolidated power and made a lot of uniforms with Golden Circles. Now, the portions of Southern Texas and Nuevo Leon are claiming the relatively barren landscapes of CCoahuila and Tamaulipas with limited success.

The sixth claim will be New Mexico and the Texas pandhandle. This I want to be the regional power, perhaps acting as an anchor to the two less representive (but more progressive?) nations on the Yucatan penisula.

The seventh claim will be Galveston and parts of Houston as a free city. I have no idea what this will be yet, but I wanted to detach this region from the rest of the claim so that there was no clear cut parity.

The eight claim will be northern parts of New Mexico and the Texas panhandle out of Lubbock. I want most of the territory to be a semi-autonomous region vis-a-vis Kurdistan--indigenous populations fighting, mostly effectively, against an enervated government out of Lubbock embroiled in a long war as a proxy landscape for a proxy war between Texas proper and the Suttree Republic (representing their own interests detached from any conservative-liberal/white-brown axis).

I'm posting this all here instead of the Discussion Thread for now because, again, I imagine there might not be many objections to the idea as an idea, even given some of the ambiguities present, so it might be helpful in a time saving sense to get on with getting input to the application itself and slotting members of the community into whatever aspects of the application the community finds credible.

[Dra-pol]

I haven't much of an objection to Roania's application, provided it be vampire-free.

When it comes to claiming multiple nations on top of China, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to use RL Chinese territory to host multiple IC sub-nations? That would leave the others up for grabs, and I can't imagine that you were set on a particular population sum, were you? Once you're over a billion, what does it matter?

For example: Whatever Vietnam was going to be to you, let Guangxi fill that niche. What you would have done in Korea, do it in Jilin. And so forth (though perhaps keep Mongolia... it seems unlikely to be claimed otherwise!)

Merely a suggestion, but we aren't so tied to real history... the Drapoel, after all, are an entirely fictional people.

Bonus: you might even get away with your isolationism in part because of the West's burned fingers in Dra-pol, which was pretty hot on their rejection when they showed up over the centuries, and an assumption that they'd get the same next door.

[Chrinthanium]

I haven't much of an objection to Roania's application, provided it be vampire-free.

When it comes to claiming multiple nations on top of China, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to use RL Chinese territory to host multiple IC sub-nations? That would leave the others up for grabs, and I can't imagine that you were set on a particular population sum, were you? Once you're over a billion, what does it matter?

For example: Whatever Vietnam was going to be to you, let Guangxi fill that niche. What you would have done in Korea, do it in Jilin. And so forth (though perhaps keep Mongolia... it seems unlikely to be claimed otherwise!)

Merely a suggestion, but we aren't so tied to real history... the Drapoel, after all, are an entirely fictional people.

Bonus: you might even get away with your isolationism in part because of the West's burned fingers in Dra-pol, which was pretty hot on their rejection when they showed up over the centuries, and an assumption that they'd get the same next door.

A great idea, Dra-Pol/WoS. Ro, I second this suggestion.

I'll stick around this time,

The idea is to have eight different nations within the one claim. The headline numbers incorporate modern day Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, Tamaulipas, Sinaloa, Durango, Yucatan, Quintana Roo and Campeche. I'm posting this all here instead of the Discussion Thread for now because I imagine there might not be many objections to the idea as an idea, even given some of the ambiguities present, so it might be helpful in a time saving sense to get on with getting input to the application itself.

The theme is if I have a few different colors on the map it'll enable me to interact with different players in different contexts. To some extent we already do this historically--Spain fought France in such and such year, Spain allied with Walmington and, finding the crumpets unappetizing, retired from the field even until to the modern day etc etc. Now I will do it in real time in AMW's present. If it all has to be the same color on the map, I'd suggest the title to be something like "Central North America," or another geographic marker.

The primary dynamic is that the region is still full of echoes from an independence movement against Valendia (or anyone who would like to offer as an imperial book end). Instead of the region acquiring independence fully when it did historically, the idea is to push the dates back just enough to extend the timeline into the 1970s. In this we might have echoes of South Africa and other late blooming wars of colonial independence. Instead of Mexico's several civil wars and secession movements occurring in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, the secession and civil movements occur in the late 20th and early 21st. The separatist movements in this timeline win, given the presence of the Gulf States and the relative lack of counterbalancing stability as occurred historically (Walmington doesn't end up executing the filibusters, there's no centralized government in North America preventing incursions into the South like what happened historically etc).

Filibustering from the Gulf States also makes more than a appearance. Filibustering as in the act of private pro-slavery adventurers, "filibusteros," like in Nicaragua, acquiring the central governmental apparatus and running with it.

The first claim will be Chan Santa Cruz, which is a historical almost-nation from the 1900s. Ethnically Mayan, historically it was the goal of a long insurgency against Mexico City after their original super-federalist constitution was replaced with a more centralized document under Santa Anna (that Santa Anna). Added bonus: weird syncrenistic Mayan and Christian beliefs, melting pot etc etc. It'd be, for now, the precise boundaries of Quintana Roo. Since that name first came to me as the name of Joan Didion's deceased daughter, I'll likely change it later. For now I want to imagine a nation that wrested independence from the central government based on a primarily ethnic impetus, without its sister republic's religious overtones, which is complicated by the fact that right now Mexico City I leave to other players. Right now it's all "Here Be Dragons." If another player comes along I'll hash it out then, but the gist of it is a relatively advanced, powerful nation of indigenous Mayans.

The second claim will be Durango and Sinaloa. Whatever population they do have I'll likely be transferring a portion to the other nations as part of the leeway afforded to players claiming a track of land. The idea right now is a semi-peasant state integrated into Chihuahua, such as the Sami native region is to the rest of Finland. [1] The state will be its own "thing," perhaps we might make comparisons to Somaliland, but less violent; Caprivi Strip in Namibia or maybe Western Sahara these days. Easy environmental comparisons lend themselves here without much effort on my part.

The third claim will be modern day Chihuahua as El Estado Grande de Chihuahua y Tepehuanes--referencing the incorporation of the above styled claim alongside the more populous, wealthy and advanced "central" government in Chihuahua. I see this claim as the most "Hispanic" nation, a middle balance between the purely indigenous nations of the Yucatan and the filibuster regimes in the north. A carve out of centralizing desire and semi-imperialistic do good-er inhabiting a crossroads out of its capital-crossroads in Chihuahua. As I get my borders figured out the capital is likely to move north to El Paso, but that is to be decided on the map maker's abilities. If moving the territories like I imagine cannot happen, then Chihuahua's capital will remain eponymous.

The fourth claim will be the Yucutan Republic, based on modern day Yucuatan and Campeche and arising, like Chan Santa Cruz, from 20th Century separatist movements in that region that advocated for an independent Yucatan. At this point I will also make mention of an French-Algerian impostor dynamic in that to incorporate the Gulf States' Golden Circle fellows I'll incorporate those historic "filibusters" (as in William "the Grey Eyed Man of Destiny" Walker and other pro-slavery private adventurers) influences in the form of a major Gulf State expatriate/Gulf State identifying community. This would hopefully happen with Lusaka's permission of course.

The fifth claim will be Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas, with portions of Southern Texas, as the Suttree Republic. In this I will be attempting to smuggle in elements of Ethiopia's involvement in Eritrea and the filibusters of the Gulf States. My idea is that "the Republic" is ostensibly based out of what is now Corpus Christi (though for now would be just as happy with Monterey with the map situation), and going back to the 1900s was a branch/independence movement out of a to-be-decided empire (Valendia?) or central government (Mexico City?) that the filibusters overthrew. Liberal elements of the independence/revolution invited "filibustering" elements from Lubbock (see below) and the Gulf States to assist them in the counter-counter revolution of papist and conservative elements within the country but found themselves at the mercy of the filibusters. The filibusters, in turn, consolidated power and made a lot of uniforms with Golden Circles. Now, the portions of Southern Texas and Nuevo Leon are claiming the relatively barren landscapes of CCoahuila and Tamaulipas with limited success.

The sixth claim will be New Mexico and the Texas pandhandle. This I want to be the regional power, perhaps acting as an anchor to the two less representive (but more progressive?) nations on the Yucatan penisula.

The seventh claim will be Galveston and parts of Houston as a free city. I have no idea what this will be yet, but I wanted to detach this region from the rest of the claim so that there was no clear cut parity.

The eight claim will be northern parts of New Mexico and the Texas panhandle out of Lubbock. I want most of the territory to be a semi-autonomous region vis-a-vis Kurdistan--indigenous populations fighting, mostly effectively, against an enervated government out of Lubbock embroiled in a long war as a proxy landscape for a proxy war between Texas proper and the Suttree Republic (representing their own interests detached from any conservative-liberal/white-brown axis).

I'm posting this all here instead of the Discussion Thread for now because, again, I imagine there might not be many objections to the idea as an idea, even given some of the ambiguities present, so it might be helpful in a time saving sense to get on with getting input to the application itself and slotting members of the community into whatever aspects of the application the community finds credible.

I can't help but get happy to have Max back. I really am thrilled you're coming back to us. I've always enjoyed your creations and I look forward to the RP opportunities that both you and Roania will bring to AMW.

I also can't help but think just how complicated and/or confusing the idea will be... at least to me. But, AMW isn't about following a set pattern, it's about doing what makes you happy. It is obvious to me that you've put some thought into this so if no one objects, I'm all for it. I'll defer to those already in North America. As far as history, Britain is always willing to add to its ever-increasing tally of erstwhile colonial possessions. As far as map coloring, I can promise I'll do 8 shades of the same color just because there's not really a lot I can do if I use 8 colors, considering three of them border you or are near you already and there's truly only certain colors that look good on the map.

Speaking of colors, I'm going to be revamping the map and some colors may change. This is just for a better aesthetic to the map.

[Roania]

I'd really prefer my claim of China and Vietnam, and population isn't really of much interest to me... but for the sake of convenience I'll accept this idea. It's doable, though I had hoped that being willing to trade Tibet would make up for my claims in Vietnam. Except no, WoS has the right of it. Let's go ahead.

[Dra-pol]

I admit that part of my concern would be that if you took half of Vietnam, I'd struggle to ever get anyone else to border me in the south-east. Half of Vietnam plus Laos and Cambodia would have to behave itself very well to avoid being annexed on a whim by either of our nations, and I don't see many players taking on that burden!

Dra-pol and DaShun make for... interesting neighbours. Like a dog confused by a mirror. "We invented civilisation! You are barbarians!", "No, we invented civilisation, you barbarians!", "You touched a foreigner!", "You touched like four of them, you dirty two-hairs!", "Don't talk to me anymore.", "New relay-runner messaging system, who dis?"

((Redeploys like two million light infantry to the northern border districts just in case))

[Roania]

I thought you controlled Laos and Cambodia; my plan as said does somewhat include South Vietnam, though it's beyond the range of my knowledge. I'm afraid I don't know much about the Cham.

I think as we've agreed will be fine.

[Dra-pol]

Sorry, I'm very tired, Laos aye, Cambodia nay. That reinforces the idea of remaining NPC being hopelessly over-powered, unless you indeed take Cambodia, in which case never mind!

Never known anyone want to surround Dra-pol since the old six-nation coalition in AMW's formative phase came a cropper. Nostalgia!

[The Amyclae]

I can't help but get happy to have Max back. I really am thrilled you're coming back to us. I've always enjoyed your creations and I look forward to the RP opportunities that both you and Roania will bring to AMW.

I also can't help but think just how complicated and/or confusing the idea will be... at least to me. But, AMW isn't about following a set pattern, it's about doing what makes you happy. It is obvious to me that you've put some thought into this so if no one objects, I'm all for it. I'll defer to those already in North America. As far as history, Britain is always willing to add to its ever-increasing tally of erstwhile colonial possessions. As far as map coloring, I can promise I'll do 8 shades of the same color just because there's not really a lot I can do if I use 8 colors, considering three of them border you or are near you already and there's truly only certain colors that look good on the map.

Speaking of colors, I'm going to be revamping the map and some colors may change. This is just for a better aesthetic to the map.

Kind words that are undeserved, but thank you!

You're exactly right about the confusion, I seem to have confused myself to some extent. I see in at least one section a duplication of claims, and in another a very imprecise distinction between 'Texas and New Mexico,' "New Mexico and the Texas panhandle," and "El Paso."

For ease of use, I've created these helpful maps to better convey what even I seem unable to convey. Image [1]| Image [2]

[Hashkin]

can I claim Germany, Rest of Denmark, Benelux, austria, madagascar, and Mozambique
(I was think that maybe Germany didn't ally with austria and survives ww1)

[Chrinthanium]

can I claim Germany, Rest of Denmark, Benelux, austria, madagascar, and Mozambique
(I was think that maybe Germany didn't ally with austria and survives ww1)

As I stated in the discussion thread, best to read the first post in this thread to see what we're looking for and how to submit an application.

[Hashkin]

can I claim Germany, Rest of Denmark, Benelux, austria, madagascar, and Mozambique
(I was think that maybe Germany didn't ally with austria and survives ww1)

As I stated in the discussion thread, best to read the first post in this thread to see what we're looking for and how to submit an application.

I did, I wqs just think about a German Empire that declined similarly to Great Britian

[Chrinthanium]

As I stated in the discussion thread, best to read the first post in this thread to see what we're looking for and how to submit an application.

I did, I wqs just think about a German Empire that declined similarly to Great Britian

Okay... then write out your idea so we can read it and go from there.