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Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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Walmington on Sea
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Posts: 472
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:27 pm

Hrm, well, I can't deny the territorial vastness of the empire, certainly, Chrinthania. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I tend to imagine that people will see that most of it is the Canadian and Alaskan wilderness, and that it doesn't really cover anywhere that people will immediately think of as traditionally 'powerful', such as if we had a Russia-wide empire again. Hopefully people won't look and think, “Oh my God! All powerful Canadian Empire! Run!” anyway!

Oh, Madagascar and Borneo? I was just trying to pick one! They do both appeal for quite different reasons, but after prolonged head-scratching I think that I'll be happier with Borneo ((minus Brunei, of course)). I can never quite understand why we don't get more applications for Madagascar-based nations, though. It's such a unique place, and it doesn't have to be poor. Hopefully someone will build a good claim there, eventually.

Regarding Borneo, my thinking is that it may have hosted one or more civilisation that was long in conflict with the Emesans, and when the Emesans embraced English civilisation with enthusiasm while the Borneans violently rejected it, the Empire had little hesitation in picking a side and reaching for the bayonet.

If I'm not way off the mark on this, the Valendians conquered the independent Sultanate of Brunei by force many centuries ago. I'd be interested in some sort of historic division of the island between English, Valendian, and perhaps American possessions, with Brunei being the last vestige of an age before Anglo hegemony on the island. Perhaps the Valendians lost much of their share during the Napoleonic Wars, and Amerique during the Anglo-American conflicts that saw American gains at Walmingtonian expense elsewhere.

Anyway, according to the 2010 censuses, Borneo excluding Brunei has 19,397,864 people ((it's growing alarmingly quickly and is probably well above 20 million today, but for factbook purposes the lesser figure will suffice for now)). Borneo will furnish the Empire with more oil, gas, coal, timber, fishing and military ports, and more cheap labour and manpower.

I believe the addition of the remainder of Sri Lanka and Borneo will bring the official population of the Walmingtonian Empire to 126,731,897, including something very roughly like 46 million Englishmen and 80 million non-whites.

This looks like a pretty satisfactory Walmingtonian Empire ((the only possible niggle being a bit of a (ten thousand mile) Pacific void east of Borneo and west of Galapagos, but I suppose the Alaskan islands represent something of a global east-west continuity, so I'm choosing to ignore that irk)).
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Chrinthania
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Posts: 483
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:10 pm

Can I ask you a tremendously huge favor? Check this list and make sure I've got your claim sorted right for the offsite map..

Canada; Parts of USA (Alaska, Maine, Puerto Rico), Parts of Morocco (regions of Tangier-Tétouan, Gharb-Chrarda-Béni Hssen, Rabat-Salé-Zemmour-Zaer, Grand Casablanca, Chaouia-Ouardigha, Marrakech-Tensift-El Haouz, Tadla-Azilal, Doukkala-Abda, Souss-Massa-Drâa, Guelmim-Es Semara, and Laâyoune-Boujdour-Sakia El Hamra); Northern Cape Province (South Africa); Sittwe (Myanmar); Sao Tome and Principe; Kalinigrad Oblast of Russia; Namibia; Kerkennah Islands and Djerba; Galapagos Islands; south Chile (regions of Bío Bío, La Araucanía, Los Ríos, Los Lagos, Aysén del General Carlos Ibáñez del Campo, and Magallanes); southern Argentina (provinces of Tierra del Fuego, Santa Cruz, Chubut, Rio Negro, and Neuquén); Northern Sudan; Sri Lanka, Most of Borneo (Not including Brunei).
Last edited by Chrinthania on Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Gaul
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Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:24 pm

All looks good to me, and is also a good nudge perhaps for the growth of Singapore, somewhat half way between a very Roman Palmyra and a very English Borneo.

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Walmington on Sea
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Posts: 472
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Walmington on Sea » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:12 pm

It's no favour. If anything you're doing the favour, sir.

You can add Oued Ed-Dahab-Lagouira to Morocco, a territory I had, gave up to Amerique out of pity ;) , and now take back since he apparently doesn't want it ((Hurrah for Walmingtonian Saharaland!)).

I don't think that the Kerkennah Islands and Djerba are Walmingtonian, are they? It was definitely brought up at one point, and it looked like they were going to be, but I thought it turned out that my presence was not required. Actually, we'll have to check with Aeromoormaxclae on that one. They're not on the current map, to the best of my knowledge, anyway. I'm happy to take them if it works for others, but they're not something I particularly need.

On northern Sudan, it's not all of Sudan ((as in north Sudan)). The map's correct currently, though, in this respect, so doesn't need changing. For informational purposes, the Walmingtonian portions of Sudan are, by state, as follows: Red Sea, River Nile, Northern, North Darfur, North Kurdufan, White Nile.

And yes, NG, Singapore's value as a port and a fortified position protecting a strategic trade route seems to make more sense with an English Borneo. Thus it may become the entry point for English culture in Emesa, and the centre for the expatriate community, perhaps?
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The Crooked Beat
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Posts: 635
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:01 pm

I may be totally mistaken, but doesn't Amberland also include the Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship of Poland?

Otherwise, I'm in favor of the changes and additions proposed thus far. With all of India and China, Brazil, most of West Africa, and huge chunks of North America still free, I don't think we really have to worry about crowding-out potential new applicants just yet. Europe may be just about filled up, but there's nothing new on that front!

Certainly a great deal to discuss in terms of global politics, especially if Walmington seems set to put some distance between itself and democratic Europe, but this probably isn't the place for it.

Also, with Kavoso gone, I was wondering if AMW as a whole might entertain an eastward expansion of Gandvik, to match-up the border with that of the RL Volga Federal District of Russia, specifically into the federal subjects of Samara, Orenburg, Perm, and Bashkortostan. This would entail the addition of just under twelve million more people, some striking natural scenery, and significant mineral reserves, and I certainly understand why many people would say that Gandvik is already big enough, but it is a change that I've been eyeing for a while now and one that, I think, could be spun to make at least some RP sense in terms of Gandvik's internal colonial process. Gandvik would become richer, but not, I think, overwhelmingly so.

In any case, I'm interested to hear what AMW at large thinks of this idea.

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The Amyclae
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Founded: Jan 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Amyclae » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:22 pm

Djerba and Co.? I always had them marked off as someone else's possession... Though now I can't remember if it was Walmington historically or if that was a part of the concession to Cass following the First Desert War (read: something catchy-sounding). Or if it was Nibelunc historically and we decided not to try to invade because that'd be silly "hah-ha! All your useless islands are belong us!" Or maybe it was another nation entirely, and we are all just forgetting whom it was.

In any event I always saw them as an interesting quirk if they were controlled by an outside power: a close-by release valve of indeterminate ancestry. I initially thought it'd be interesting as some sort of Hasidic-Jewish, or otherwise Haredim, community whose continuity was respected by the tradition-bound Areopagites. Well, regardless of all that they are someone else's. I do know that, and if Walmington would like to step up to the plate on this one (or perhaps Cass remembers something of this?) then I'm all for it.

I'm not one to mind over the Walmy Empire's expansion... Edit: I have to check a map to see what you're chatting about TCB, damn Russian names.
Last edited by The Amyclae on Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:04 am

If it pertains to those, what, four subdivisions on Gandvik's Southeastern edge that border Depkazia, then I think I know what we're talking about
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Chrinthanium
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Posts: 13932
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:36 am

This is more of a tag post so that this main name (Chrinthania is, of course, a puppet) has this app thread in the View Your Posts option. WoS, you're on the map as you've listed since it seems it's all in order.
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Cassanos
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Posts: 589
Founded: Dec 30, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:09 am

The Amyclae wrote:Djerba and Co.? I always had them marked off as someone else's possession... Though now I can't remember if it was Walmington historically or if that was a part of the concession to Cass following the First Desert War (read: something catchy-sounding). Or if it was Nibelunc historically and we decided not to try to invade because that'd be silly "hah-ha! All your useless islands are belong us!" Or maybe it was another nation entirely, and we are all just forgetting whom it was.

Nibelung didn't have any possessions outside of Europe, IIRC the tiny island of Zembra would be ceded to Nibelung for use as a small monitoring outpost post-war. I like the name for the war, BTW :).

The Crooked Beat wrote:Also, with Kavoso gone, I was wondering if AMW as a whole might entertain an eastward expansion of Gandvik, to match-up the border with that of the RL Volga Federal District of Russia, specifically into the federal subjects of Samara, Orenburg, Perm, and Bashkortostan. This would entail the addition of just under twelve million more people, some striking natural scenery, and significant mineral reserves, and I certainly understand why many people would say that Gandvik is already big enough, but it is a change that I've been eyeing for a while now and one that, I think, could be spun to make at least some RP sense in terms of Gandvik's internal colonial process. Gandvik would become richer, but not, I think, overwhelmingly so.

In any case, I'm interested to hear what AMW at large thinks of this idea.

I for one have no problem with an expanded Gandvik, I think higher wealth and population would translate to more power for Riga, so we can have an even bigger rivalry between two opposed systems in Europe.
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The Crooked Beat
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Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:57 pm

Glad to have your support, Cass! Though I would add that Gandvik's approach to government is based less on a coherent ideology, and more on making sure that all the right palms are greased. The exact nature of government in Gandvik is a subject that I haven't really dealt with in depth, if only because I almost don't know how to approach it, but underneath a very thin veneer of constitutional monarchy, in the Imperial German rather than British sense, there are some elements of Fascism, reflected in Riga's virulent nationalist rhetoric and its adherence to a corporatist strategy in labor relations, a Politburo-style executive branch, and some serious patronage-based machine politics in local and regional government. In a sense, it's almost a neo-patrimonial (my apologies to Max Weber) system, where politicians are measured according to their generosity in spreading the national wealth among their core supporters. In a way, more like Russia in real life than I prefer to admit, but also like the Cold War-era dictatorships of Africa and South America.

In short, a dictatorship, cobbled-together from half-understood concepts out of partially-read college textbooks, whose basic interest is staying in power and enriching itself. :P

Well, I've gone far enough on that tangent. At the very least, the mineral wealth in those federal subjects specified will go a long way to help cover the blank spots in Gandvik's shaky economic model.

Also, I may be totally off the mark here, but, if I'm remembering this correctly, isn't North Africa around northern Morocco and Algeria more like Sicily or the drier parts of Spain than Libya or Egypt? Certainly not a lush part of the world, but I'm concerned that, good though a name like the First Desert War may be on its own merits, there may not have actually been all that much desert involved in that particular conflict.

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Cassanos
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Founded: Dec 30, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:00 pm

The Crooked Beat wrote:Glad to have your support, Cass! Though I would add that Gandvik's approach to government is based less on a coherent ideology, and more on making sure that all the right palms are greased. The exact nature of government in Gandvik is a subject that I haven't really dealt with in depth, if only because I almost don't know how to approach it, but underneath a very thin veneer of constitutional monarchy, in the Imperial German rather than British sense, there are some elements of Fascism, reflected in Riga's virulent nationalist rhetoric and its adherence to a corporatist strategy in labor relations, a Politburo-style executive branch, and some serious patronage-based machine politics in local and regional government. In a sense, it's almost a neo-patrimonial (my apologies to Max Weber) system, where politicians are measured according to their generosity in spreading the national wealth among their core supporters. In a way, more like Russia in real life than I prefer to admit, but also like the Cold War-era dictatorships of Africa and South America.
I think I see what you are envisioning, though. As an aside, the bit about ideologies being overridden by nepotism, greed and corruption would also apply to at least one side of the somewhat ideologically-driven Cold War. I will let every member choose for himself which one it was ;).

The Crooked Beat wrote:Also, I may be totally off the mark here, but, if I'm remembering this correctly, isn't North Africa around northern Morocco and Algeria more like Sicily or the drier parts of Spain than Libya or Egypt? Certainly not a lush part of the world, but I'm concerned that, good though a name like the First Desert War may be on its own merits, there may not have actually been all that much desert involved in that particular conflict.

The Rif area might look sufficiently like a desert to your average middle European, though. And I imagine that most Nibelungs' knowledge of Areopagitican is limited to "mad fanatics in the desert", so the name would have been chosen my most of the media. A catchy name tends to stick rather quickly, remember how "The Gulf War" meant the Second Gulf War after 1991, not even three years after the extensively covered Gulf War ended ;).
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Acadzia
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Posts: 1636
Founded: Nov 15, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Acadzia » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Hey guys. I was missing you cats lately and thought I'd check in, and lo and behold, I see that Kyr has returned (though I harass him so much on Facebook, I feel like he never left ;)) and even the hero of legend, Quinntonia, is here. I was aware that Jean had come back and was delighted to see him still around, too.

And of course, all of the regulars who have never left for any length of time.

I'm interested in coming back, again. Playing a Catholic state, again.

I'd like to set up shop in Kerala, India, as a fairly peaceful, capitalist, Nasrani republic. Similar I guess, in some regards, to Alexandria, which was a claim I really did like, RL got in the way with that one, rather than RP stagnation (like some of my other moves and hiatuses.) At any rate, Westernization could have occurred from "Portuguese" or Western Roman explorers, as in real life, or not at all. I might toy with Greco influence from Alexander (again).

I also might shift westward, if you guys think it would work better in the remainder of Western Iran, possibly with Seleucid origins, and I could still have the St. Thomas history I'm interested in playing out. Personally, I prefer Kerala and taking a stab at India and Asia, but I'd consider this, too.

Obviously, a full app would be forthcoming. Just saying hello and gauging interest at this point.
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The Amyclae
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Founded: Jan 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Amyclae » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:35 pm

I think I speak for a few others when I say "yay!"
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Chrinthania
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:39 am

Well, looks like AMW's prodigal son returns......

......again. As a player, I have absolutely no objections to your return to AMW in whatever capacity you see fit. If you chose the route of Roman exploration, interaction, or even colonization, I would have no objections. It would help me fill in part of that period between 476AD and, oh, today that needs filling. I have no doubts as to your abilities as a player, nor do I have any question as to whether or not you'll create an interesting, fun, and superb claim.

My hope is that you stick with us this time.
Last edited by Chrinthania on Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cassanos
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Founded: Dec 30, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cassanos » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:12 am

Same here, I like it :).
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Kyr Shorn
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Posts: 724
Founded: Dec 01, 2009
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Kyr Shorn » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:09 pm

Acadzia wrote:Hey guys. I was missing you cats lately and thought I'd check in, and lo and behold, I see that Kyr has returned (though I harass him so much on Facebook, I feel like he never left ;)) and even the hero of legend, Quinntonia, is here. I was aware that Jean had come back and was delighted to see him still around, too.

And of course, all of the regulars who have never left for any length of time.

I'm interested in coming back, again. Playing a Catholic state, again.

I'd like to set up shop in Kerala, India, as a fairly peaceful, capitalist, Nasrani republic. Similar I guess, in some regards, to Alexandria, which was a claim I really did like, RL got in the way with that one, rather than RP stagnation (like some of my other moves and hiatuses.) At any rate, Westernization could have occurred from "Portuguese" or Western Roman explorers, as in real life, or not at all. I might toy with Greco influence from Alexander (again).

I also might shift westward, if you guys think it would work better in the remainder of Western Iran, possibly with Seleucid origins, and I could still have the St. Thomas history I'm interested in playing out. Personally, I prefer Kerala and taking a stab at India and Asia, but I'd consider this, too.

Obviously, a full app would be forthcoming. Just saying hello and gauging interest at this point.


Cool! It would be interesting to have another Alexandrian successor state present in AMW. India could work just as well as Iran, after all AMW Alexander could have made it further into the Indian Subcontinent.

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Amerique
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Posts: 177
Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Amerique » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:37 pm

I must admit, when I saw that Acadzia posted here, I was kind of hoping he would join in on North America. Would have been great to have as a neighbor, a Catholic one to boot. :P

The idea of a southern India that is predominantly St. Thomas Christian is indeed very interesting, though. A friend of mine who was going to join had the exact same idea at one point, actually, so I went through quite a bit of research on the subject, they were apparently Indian Jews before the arrival of St. Thomas. As for the ethnic composition, we've seen a lot of Hellenic states recently, especially Alexandrian-influenced ones, and, sorry to say to Kyr, but it would be kind of interesting if it was more Indian-influenced than Alexandrine. Just my two cents, though I'll support the application regardless of what you choose.

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Nova Gaul
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Posts: 710
Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:46 pm

Well then, welcome back Acadzia. Wonderful to have to active again, and more wonderful besides to have you as a neighbor!

And TCB, I wholeheartedly support the expansion, and hope that a nation such as Gandvik-expanded will continue to be a antagonist in respects to RP.

And WoS - that was my thought re Singapore exactly. To take things a step further, in regards to the English having a sizeable enclave of ex-pats there - I wonder if Singapore was not founded by Great Walmington and eventually purchased, or maybe signed over, to Emesa? Now that I think of it, perhaps in say, I don't know, 1850, the English more or less forced Emesa to sign Singapore over to them on a hunred year lease, and it was turned back over in the 1950s. I'd imagine, as I've said many times in factbooks, that Singapore is a sort of special economic zone, as opposed to Palmyra, so perhaps some trace elements of English jurisdiction still apply there. At any rate, yes, that's my thought re Singapore.

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Acadzia
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Founded: Nov 15, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Acadzia » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:13 am

Hmm, still musing...

What about Java?

Gives me a big ass population, I know, but I'd still be pretty tiny. Which is kind of what I'm going for (the latter, not the former.) Sumatra could work, too.

It also gets me nearer to Chrin, NG, and WoS. Whereas Kerala is near WoS, but that's about it. Gotta trek the entire subcontinent before you hit Chemaki. That's a lot of dragons to battle.
Last edited by Acadzia on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Chrinthania
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Posts: 483
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:23 pm

Well, near NG and WoS, I'm thinking I don't need a second claim. For some reason, I like the idea of Sumatra. Don't know why, but it just strikes me as a good spot.
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Amerique
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Posts: 177
Founded: Oct 12, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Amerique » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:36 pm

Depending on how you structured your claim, the southern tip of India would give you access to some of India's vital industries such as Hindustan Aeronautics and and ship-building. But, yeah, Indonesia does give you easier access to WoS, Emesa and Dra-pol.

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Beddgelert
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Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Beddgelert » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:54 pm

If you want a whole island (which isn't obligatory, remember), the size of the economy may be a factor here, since Java has more than two and a half times as many people as Sumatra. If you're looking at a fully developed, modern economy, the 136 million (or whatever it is) people of crowded little Sumatra means a big question for the community. 50 million wealthy Sumatrans, on their big island, though, doesn't seem as troubling. Well, I CBA saying more just now, but you get the general point I'm driving at, I'm sure.
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Nova Gaul
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Founded: Nov 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Gaul » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:13 pm

Good points all around I think, and in any case Acadzia you'd be getting good coffee! I think BG and Amerique have made the biggest points, but in general I'd encourage the move, if only to fill in Southeast Asia (and its history) a little more. On another note Chrin I see no reason to give up Bali, quite the contrary, your history and opportunities to RP only increase as the area gets filled in.

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Chrinthania
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Posts: 483
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Chrinthania » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:11 pm

Nova Gaul wrote:Good points all around I think, and in any case Acadzia you'd be getting good coffee! I think BG and Amerique have made the biggest points, but in general I'd encourage the move, if only to fill in Southeast Asia (and its history) a little more. On another note Chrin I see no reason to give up Bali, quite the contrary, your history and opportunities to RP only increase as the area gets filled in.


Aye, it does, but, as much as Bali is good for a second claim, I found a smaller population that I would like to work with. One that is much more familiar to me and one that can be just as fun. It'll put paid some discussions in the past about this particular landmass, it'll give me roughly the kind of people and population I want along with the geography that I need for the fun second claim. The only issue is isolation, for the most part......

So, rather than double post, time to jump right into the application process. Just a note, I've intentionally left out dates of European contact just to ensure I can slide all of that into established history if people come on board later.

Kingdom of Hawaii

Conventional Long Form: Kingdom of Hawaii
Conventional Short Form: Hawaii
Local Long Form: Aupuni Mōʻī o Hawaiʻi
Local Short Form: Hawai'i
Population: 1,392,313
Population Density: 214 per sq mi (82.6 per sq km)
Area:
--Total: 10,931 sq mi (28,311 sq km)
--% water: 41.2
Government Type: Constitutional Monarchy
Head of State: Queen Ailani II
Head of Government: Prime Minister Beverly Jones
Legislature:
--Lower House: House of Representatives
--Upper House: House of Nobles
GDP (PPP): 27,846,260,000 (27.8 Billion)
GDP per capita (PPP): 20,000

History

The history begins with the First Arrival of Polynesians to the Hawaiian Islands somewhere between 100 CE and 300 CE and the establishment of an identifiable Hawaiian culture for the time. The islands themselves would remain unknown to the rest of the world until the English arrived. While attempting to find a Northwest Passage between North America and Asia, the English happened upon the Hawaiian Islands and were suprised to find them so far north in the Pacific Ocean. The English called them the Sandwich Islands. After news spread of the newly-discovered sandwich islands, other Europeans, namely Romans from Lusitania, arrived.

The modern state of Hawaii didn't begin to take shape until King Kamehameha I united the 8 largest Hawaiian Islands under his singular rule around 1810. It would be the first time the islands were controlled by one King and the origination of the Kingdom of Hawaii. Kamehameha was able to attain these feat thanks to the import of foreign weapons and English know-how. Furthering the influence of the English, Christianity began to overspread the islands and, by 1819, much of the Hawaiian kapu system was abandoned by the first Christian king of Hawaii, Kamehameha III. Protestantism would be the dominant Christian denomination in the islands, though pockets of Catholics did manage to spring up, predominantly around Roman settlements.

Sugarcane would become the main cash crop of the Hawaiian Islands. Its production would see tremendous changed wrought both on the people and the land. To work the sugarcane plantations, workers had to be imported from other nations, in particular Asia, which was closer than Europe. The vast influx of foreigners would again bring change the Hawaiian culture and create a type of globalization on a small scale in the islands. The original native inhabitants were reduce to a few thousand while foreigners were taking over.

In 1843, and English sea captain sailed into Honolulu and demanded King Kamehameha III cede the Hawaiian Islands to the English Crown. Kamehameha objected, but, under thread of naval attack, he acquiesced. The English sea captain was not, according to reports, acting on behalf of the English crown but of his own volition. The English sent an emissary who restored Kamehameha III to the throne and sent the disgraced sea captain home.

Regardless of the punishment levied upon the sea captain for causing such an incident, the Hawaiians grew tired of the presence of the English. Yet, the sheer power of the English was more than the Hawaiians could handle. Instead of attempting to fight a war which would almost assuredly see the end of the Hawaiian people as a race, Kamehameha III would institute a series of reforms which would effective give rights back to the Hawaiian people. His 1849 Constitution of the Hawaiian Kingdom effectively ended the years of indentured servitude the native Hawaiians faced at the hands of the Europeans attempting to profit off of their backs. To maintain peace with the Walmingtonian Empire, Kamehameha III would craft a deal with the Walmingtonians. First, Hawaii agreed to send sugar to the English duty free and allowed them to use Moku'ume'ume (RL Ford Island) as a naval base. In exchange, the English would be required to ensure the sovereignty of the Hawaiian Islands. The agreement was received well enough to avoid any type of conflict with the English.

Government

During the early 1900s, Hawaii itself underwent a revolution in which the monarchy was overthrown and a republic was declared. Monarchist forces, backed by the English, were able to reestablish Royal rule in Hawaii, but, in an act of conciliation to the people, the monarch, Queen Lili'uokalani II allowed for a Walmingtonian form of government complete with a Parliament and a Constitutional monarch. The legislature is divided into a Lower House (House of Representatives) and an Upper House (House of Nobles). The head of government is the Prime Minister, who is the leader of the majority party in the House of Representatives.

Economy

The small economy of the Kingdom of Hawaii may not seem like much, but it's quite important to the Hawaiians. The main driving force of the economy is the tourism industry, followed by agricultural products such as pineapple, coffee, macadamia nuts, livestock, and sugarcane. The Hawaiian economy is a market economy.

People & Culture

The aboriginal culture of Hawaii remains Polynesian, however, in the modern day, true native Hawaiians only make up a very small percentage of the population. Most of the cultural influence of the Polynesians remains in small pockets throughout the islands. The majority of the Hawaiians have adapted to European culture. Children are educated until the age of 18 through compulsory education in the public schools. The Royal Hawaiian University is the largest public university in the nation with just over 10,000 enrolled.

Military

While the English maintain a small naval presence at Moku'ume'ume, the Kingdom is not a protectorate of the English. The Kingdom maintains a small defense force to repel invasions.
Last edited by Chrinthania on Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Walmington on Sea
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Postby Walmington on Sea » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:56 am

Well, this looks sound enough, to me, Chrinthania, and I don't see any reason to oppose it.

Since WoS is so connected to it, if you don't mind too much ((not that you can stop me until it's over)), I'll write at length about it, anyway ;)

It looks like maybe you've kept a few vestiges of the old history from when your nation was in America? If so, that interfering Englishman would probably be James Rain, ancestor of Beauregard Rain ((the current Shadow Chancellor)), who had an estate in the Neptune Islands ((Galapagos)) and was starting to think of himself as a bit of a 'Governor of the Pacific', and may have under-estimated how much interest the Crown would actually take in his affairs once he started claiming to be acting with royal ascent in foreign relations.

Going back to first contact, if you like, Hawaii can be where Sir Harold Wendsleybury was shipwrecked in his attempted global circumnavigation, in 1523. ((If you'd rather have first contact be more recent, as IRL, I'll come up with somebody else, and have Sir Harold either make it only as far as Borneo, or all the way to either the Galapagos or Aleutians, depending on how he was planning to get home.))

I've also still got the rather obvious flag I knocked up for The English Sandwich Islands / The Owyhee Kingdom of Solomon Ali'ikai, should you want to make current or historic use of it. In the short-lived former history, I imagined Solomon Ali'ikai ((who picked his name in part from a King Godfrey Bible, the latter name proclaiming him 'lord of the sea', the former being supposed to reflect unifying power and divine right while reminding the king to avoid heresy and decadence lest his kingdom suffer the same fate as Israel)) initially interpreting the Godfreyite flags he saw as symbols of power and not necessarily understanding at first their full semiology or the diplomatic function of flags, so starting to fly imitations ((or a flag given to him as a gift by an English visitor)) in order that other Hawaiians would equate his authority with the obvious martial power of the English. If it were still to be used today, I'd imagine it'd be out of a combination of simple tradition and a desire to remind the world of whose friend they're messing with if they think they can push around little Hawaii.

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On the economy, I'm certainly not going to oppose the claim on this basis, because it certainly isn't going to trouble anyone at the proposed level, but an admittedly hurried assessment of what I ((perhaps incorrectly)) imagine to be similar states in reality tends to suggest a very modest output indeed. In reality, of course, Hawaii has an even larger economy, but it's one that's developed as part of a superpower. Other Pacific island countries have been less fortunate. The Solomon Islands, with an economy based on a few resources and cash crops, is as poor as any sub-Saharan African country; American Samoa, with a per-capita output around $8,000, has arguably only sustained that due to its relationship with the US, and seems to have struggled to replace its few big US-owned employers once the federal minimum wage kicked in there and they all upped-sticks to exploit someone poorer; Tonga's at half that level; Vanuatu, with an economy also based on cash-crops, fish, and tourism, is around $5,000 per capita.

Fiji, a country getting a bit closer to Hawaii's size and comparatively close to bigger and wealthier countries like Australia and New Zealand, has tourism as its leading industry ((all be it one recently hurt by instability)), while its sugar industry has benefited from EU subsidies for a long time. Its economy is worth $4,800 per capita ((parity)) according to the CIA.

Walmingtonians will likely visit Hawaii in their tens of thousands each year, and we may be able to agree some degree of support for certain industries, but under the 'Empire First' policy Hawaii and its sugar industry will have to fight hard against objections from the colony of Tobago ((hey, that's a nice touch, already)). Perhaps we pay a rent on the naval base you propose, too, but as it also benefits Hawaii ((strategically and economically, as hundreds of English sailors blow half their wages at luaus and theme bars every time shore-leave comes around)) I don't imagine it's going to be a huge sum. I suppose their could also be a significant expatriate community around the Empire, some working as labourers on plantations or crewing trawlers and ships of the Royal Merchant Marine and others running small businesses in cash-flushed New England, with people sending remittances back home, which is important to some Pacific island countries.

That went on longer than intended, sorry. If the larger economy is important to how you see the nation, then okay, I'm not going to stop you, but if it's not of great importance, something like a slightly larger and more stable Fiji might make sense. But that's just my opinion!
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