AMW Big Discussion Thread

by **Chrinthanium** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:48 am

I'm reconsidering Nate's European Tour. Since we're really slow Rp wise at the moment with a few members returning to school and others having technical issues with their computer, we can do it another time. I will say that I think that it will be great once this happens IRPL.

ByzD, I'll get a reply up soon. My mood has been evil lately, and right now I can't really focus. Though i think I will have something up within the next 24 hours. Unless you're reconsidering your claim makes you wish to leave the thread dormant for a few.

I'm even loosing steam on The Thorntons, at least for now. I've kind of wiped myself out emotionally IRL over the last week, and am regaining my creative juices. So, more on the potential murder of Nate's dad, and then perhaps Nate starts turning his attentions a little more seriously on Theseus. Plus there's additional man candy in the palace now for Nate. So things to work with, but not any creativity right this moment.

by **Maxen von Bismarck** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:22 pm

All right everyone, here is a list of the equipment in the possession of Libya, Tunisia and Algeria.

As you can tell, there's quite a few redundancies and idiocy. Now, ignoring AMW specific details for a moment, this is what I suspect a RL country composing of my territories should possess. Most of this is a big guesstimate operating on the assumption that Tunisia-Libya-Algeria are a large, unsanctioned, country.

Now that we have a slightly better handle on this, I'm now looking toward finding AMW equivalents. I'm guessing that the vast majority of my equipment will have to be replaced from the current Russian models to an AMW relevant Belgan, French or Byzantine counterpart. Cass has expressed interest in being an export partner in the past... I have no idea if that extends beyond fancy cars.

Does everyone have a rough understanding what I'm going on about?

This is a draft of the current Areopagite armed forces (large gaps, such as "where did those rocket launchers go?" should be ascribed to the fact that there is not a handy equivalent at this point in time)

800x - AMX-10P [Note: French equivalent of the BMP-3, or so I've been lead to believe.]
69x - TRF1 [Note: French equivalent of the various Russian 155mm towed artillery pieces.]
730x - AMX-56 Leclerc [Note: French equivalent of the Russian T-90.]
765x - AMX-30 [Note: French equivalent of the Russian T-72.]
54x - Panhard AML [Note: French equivalent of the Austrian SK-105 Kürassier.]
300x - Véhicule Blindé Léger [Note: French equivalent of the American HMMWV]
130x - VBC-90 [Note: French equivalent of the Brazilian EE-9.]
30x LG1 [Note: French equivalent of the British L118 Light Gun.]
40x T-155 Fırtına [Turkish self-propelled]
500x Otokar Cobra [Modern Turkish equivalent of the BDMR-2.]
1390x Sibmas [Belgian equivalent for my BTRs.]
115x BRDM-2 [Byzantine import.]
100x [Note: French equivalent of the BM-21]
18x BM-30 Smerch [Byzantine]
184x Sabre Mk3 [Byzantine equivalent of the M60A3.]

The rest... *sighs* Dgaf.

100x M901 ITV (with TOW)
220x 150mm Palmaria
310x 2S3 Akatsiya
220x D-30
35x D-74
100X EE-11 Urutu
200X OT-64 SKOT
24X WZ551
230X GAZ-3937 Vodnik
600X Otokar ZPT
55X Panhard AML-60
80X BCL-M5

by **Chemaki** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:29 am

I'll probably write my own - Although judging by Ghamadulla's lack of international co-operation, most of my weapons will be the equivalent of Soviet-Line weapons (e.g. the Kaleshnikov, which found its way into popularity with almost every country) and other widespread, cheap weapons like that.

by **Belgeland** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:52 am

Chemaki wrote:I'll probably write my own - Although judging by Ghamadulla's lack of international co-operation, most of my weapons will be the equivalent of Soviet-Line weapons (e.g. the Kaleshnikov, which found its way into popularity with almost every country) and other widespread, cheap weapons like that.

Perhaps the FN FAL would be the AMW equivalent of the AK47. From the 50s it would have been produced, and because of the Belgen foreign trade model, it would have openly been exported to whoever wanted it. Not really sure on other stuff yet, but the Fal should be widespread.

by **Chemaki** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:26 am

Belgeland wrote:
Chemaki wrote:I'll probably write my own - Although judging by Ghamadulla's lack of international co-operation, most of my weapons will be the equivalent of Soviet-Line weapons (e.g. the Kaleshnikov, which found its way into popularity with almost every country) and other widespread, cheap weapons like that.

Perhaps the FN FAL would be the AMW equivalent of the AK47. From the 50s it would have been produced, and because of the Belgen foreign trade model, it would have openly been exported to whoever wanted it. Not really sure on other stuff yet, but the Fal should be widespread.

Indeed. I'm thinking of a couple of variants of the FN FAL for the Hetmanate's use, and also some sort of anti-vehicle weaponry (since the hetmanate has no tanks themselves) - Mainly along the lines of IEDs, RPGs, Grenades, and (possibly) world-war-2-style cannon (i.e. 30-40 millimetre anti-vehicle guns).

by **Ferkas** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:09 pm

Is there anway we could get a general overview of what weapons are about equivalent for whatever in the real world? And who would trade with who? (Read as: What the heck would Arabia have available to it?

)

by **Belgeland** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:23 pm

Ferkas wrote:Is there anway we could get a general overview of what weapons are about equivalent for whatever in the real world? And who would trade with who? (Read as: What the heck would Arabia have available to it? )

I'd guess that you'd have my stuff (Dutch, Belgian) open to you, Byzantine (Turkish, Syrian, Iraqi) made goods (which apparently means most Russian stuff as well), French, Acadzian (British) and maybe a few other things. That's just a guess though.

by **Ferkas** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:40 pm

So anything that is real world Belgian, Dutch, Russian, Syrian, Iraqi, Turkish, French or British?

by **Modravia** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:52 pm

Yeah, I'm not going to be greedy with the Russian equipment. Just assume Modravia was pretty liberal with selling weapons and vehicles or the production licenses to weapons and vehicles to lots of countries, much like our Russia in particular. All I ask is a little blurb or shout-out about how it was designed by Modravian design bureaus. PM me about the most important/latest Russian equipment, though, since the government would likely be a little stingy about things like the Su-35 or T-90.

by **Belgeland** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:19 pm

Ferkas wrote:So anything that is real world Belgian, Dutch, Russian, Syrian, Iraqi, Turkish, French or British?

For yourself yes (or I assume so), plus anything the Saudis make themselves, like the Al-Fahd IFV.

by **Abruzi** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:02 pm

Italian made weapons are also out there....so are Austrian (since I hold southern Austria and through the power of handwave have all of their weapons plants there). I'd like to also move that weapons such as the MG3 (modernized MG42) are available to everyone in Europe because the EU on a whole uses them. Would make things oh so simple if we could say,

"Oh hey, Germany uses the G36K. Italy is in the Eu, Germany is in the EU they both have the G36 in their arsenal....they both can produce it in AMW!"

Just a thought guise.

by **Europe - Prussia** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:21 pm

Abruzi wrote:Italian made weapons are also out there....so are Austrian (since I hold southern Austria and through the power of handwave have all of their weapons plants there). I'd like to also move that weapons such as the MG3 (modernized MG42) are available to everyone in Europe because the EU on a whole uses them. Would make things oh so simple if we could say,

"Oh hey, Germany uses the G36K. Italy is in the Eu, Germany is in the EU they both have the G36 in their arsenal....they both can produce it in AMW!"

Just a thought guise.

Well, that kind of stuff is up to where the weapon was produced. Using the MG3 example, it's up to Cass to decide if the MG3 and it's production rights were sold to other countries.

Now, about weapons Valendia holds the RL French aerospace industry, while Valendia with Nibelunc produces the RL aerospace European equipment (Airbus, Eurocopter, EADS, MBDA?)

by **Kyr Shorn** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:27 pm

Europe - Prussia wrote:
Abruzi wrote:Italian made weapons are also out there....so are Austrian (since I hold southern Austria and through the power of handwave have all of their weapons plants there). I'd like to also move that weapons such as the MG3 (modernized MG42) are available to everyone in Europe because the EU on a whole uses them. Would make things oh so simple if we could say,

"Oh hey, Germany uses the G36K. Italy is in the Eu, Germany is in the EU they both have the G36 in their arsenal....they both can produce it in AMW!"

Just a thought guise.

Well, that kind of stuff is up to where the weapon was produced. Using the MG3 example, it's up to Cass to decide if the MG3 and it's production rights were sold to other countries.

Now, about weapons Valendia holds the RL French aerospace industry, while Valendia with Nibelunc produces the RL aerospace European equipment (Airbus, Eurocopter, EADS, MBDA?)

Uh I thought we agreed that I would have France's equipment cus otherwise I wouldn't have an airforce and you already have Spain's and most of Italy's equipment already.

by **Europe - Prussia** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:42 pm

http://z7.invisionfree.com/A_Modern_World/index.php?showtopic=452&view=findpost&p=17584551

When we made the reboot, I presented this issue. Because I have a piece of France I also have rights for the military technology. I just asked to have the French aerospace industry and the Italian navy industry, and nothing more. In the rest, Im relying in the small Spanish military industry and Nibelunc.

Then no one said anything, the only one who said something was Bedd who agreeded with me, so it seems weird that now you're saying something about this, specially when I posted in my factbook the Valendian Navy and Air Force.

About the Airbus stuff, that's something i've talked with Cass so all the European equipmnt could exist. Also, if you're wondering, in France Airbus, EADS and Eurocopter have their industries in Toulouse, giving me, therefore, the right to that technology.

End, rant?

by **Maxen von Bismarck** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:39 pm

Isn't EADS based in the Netherlands?

In any event, they have factories everywhere. Can't both Frances have them?

by **Europe - Prussia** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:53 pm

Only their HQ in in the Netherlands, and they are there just because they prefer the Dutch law ( ar at least that seems)

EADS is formed by CASA (Spain), DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA, Germany) and Aérospatiale-Matra (France), and as I stated above, their holding in France are in Toulouse.

Now,about having both of us the same technology; that's not possible due our history; EADS and Airbus were founded that shared those three countries, and in AMW, France and Valendia just want to kill each other. In exchange, Nibelunc and Valendia are very friendly and together have the capacity to found those companies so that technology could be avaible in AMW (please keep in mind that although we are an Empire, Valendia is quite capitalist, including it's defense industry)

by **Maxen von Bismarck** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:15 pm

Europe - Prussia wrote:Only their HQ in in the Netherlands, and they are there just because they prefer the Dutch law ( ar at least that seems)

EADS is formed by CASA (Spain), DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA, Germany) and Aérospatiale-Matra (France), and as I stated above, their holding in France are in Toulouse.

Now,about having both of us the same technology; that's not possible due our history; EADS and Airbus were founded that shared those three countries, and in AMW, France and Valendia just want to kill each other. In exchange, Nibelunc and Valendia are very friendly and together have the capacity to found those companies so that technology could be avaible in AMW (please keep in mind that although we are an Empire, Valendia is quite capitalist, including it's defense industry)

Ignoring, for a moment, that we have never before discarded a company's HQ. To my knowledge, we give the country which contains the headquarters of the company the company's production.

Taking a look of France's contribution on Google shows that Aerospatiale was based in southern France, while Matra was based in Northern France. Neither supports the idea of only one half of France getting it!

by **Kyr Shorn** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:30 pm

Europe - Prussia wrote:Only their HQ in in the Netherlands, and they are there just because they prefer the Dutch law ( ar at least that seems)

EADS is formed by CASA (Spain), DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA, Germany) and Aérospatiale-Matra (France), and as I stated above, their holding in France are in Toulouse.

Now,about having both of us the same technology; that's not possible due our history; EADS and Airbus were founded that shared those three countries, and in AMW, France and Valendia just want to kill each other. In exchange, Nibelunc and Valendia are very friendly and together have the capacity to found those companies so that technology could be avaible in AMW (please keep in mind that although we are an Empire, Valendia is quite capitalist, including it's defense industry)

Something of interest first, while Airbus is currently based in southern France, it was FOUNDED in Paris. So who owns it is ambiguous.

Also I sent you plenty of TGs a long time ago about this subject and you basicly agreed that you would let me have all of France's equipment since you already have stuff from Spain, Italy, AND Nibelunc. Funny that you "forgot" about it...

Plus I probably didn't respond during the Reboot because most of this military crap flies over my head, I can't make heads or tails over half the tedious debates that Bedd starts, I had to have Cass put together a very basic format for SOME of my army because I couldn't figure out how to do it myself (it's just sooooooo boring and complicated).

by **Jatriqya and Hoya** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:15 am

In case anyone is wondering, Dassault is also HQ'd in Paris.

by **Kyr Shorn** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:19 am

Just a note, we had a slight weapons malfunction but everything's cool now.

by **Chrinthanium** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:21 am

The situation has resolved itself in the IRC.

Both sides got something, but not everything they wanted. I think that in some time we'll have a list stemming from this discussion up here, or on the offsite more likely, soon.

by **Chemaki** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:48 pm

I looked at Beddgelert's weapon list on this thread and decided to tailor my own Ghamadullan-style weapons. Thoughts?

Cheka 1
(Image)
The oldest Ghamadullan gun still in service, it is essentially an AK47/FAL cross adapted heavily from Beddgelert (since Ghamadulla didn't really have international relations, even in the first half of the 20th century, we are assuming that the Ghamadullan authority 'came across' these guns in around 1960-70 and obtained plans for the original gun, whereby they could modify and Ghaman-ize it). Although it doesn't have a full-auto ability, the Cheka 1 is slightly lighter than the AK, and it has a slightly longer barrel, meaning that it is more accurate, despite using the same caliber bullet. About 70-80% of all Ghamadullan military and militia use this gun.

Cheka 2m
(Image)
Similar to the Cheka 1, but more accurate and durable, the way the AK74 is, compared to the AK47. Slightly heavier than an AK47, and uses standard 7.62mm cartridge. I assume a good time for such a gun to be obtained would be during the '90s, or late '80s at the earliest. Most of the remaining 20-30% of the Ghamadullan military/militia would use this gun.

Cheka K
(Image)
Basically the Pistol Mitralieră model but with a handguard and a slightly shorter barrel. As with the Cheka 2m, I assume the Ghamadullans would make such a model in the mid-to-late '80s (although Cheka 1 carbine versions would probably be around before then). Unlike the Cheka 1 and Cheka 2m, the Cheka K can be automatic or semi-automatic.

Juntagham III
(Image)
I have no idea where UZI-style and Mac10-style weapons in AMW are made and exported, but the assumption here is that the Ghamadullan militias first started using this weapon from the West/Europe/Russia in the early '60s, and this Sub-machine gun design would be capitalized on by Juntau's government when Juntau went 'rogue' from the Ghamadullan Confederacy. This functions like an UZI, and basically fulfills the role of one. This gun it fully automatic by default.

Juntagham MPV
(Image)
Fulfils more of a role as a Mac-10, this time, or a G18, than an UZI. Like the Juntagham III, this'll use 9mm ammunition, although this can be fired semi-auto, or full auto. Basically a pistol/SMG. Guns like these are rarely found outside Juntau, or high-ranking officers/government members.

Juntagham MPV
(Image)
Fulfills the role of an RPK, except it has a much slower fire rate (about 200 RPM) and uses .50 calibre ammunition. The story behind it is that this is originally a gun made in the late '40s as an anti-tank gun (similar to ones in the first world war) and then developed into a high-calibre LMG.

by **Maxen von Bismarck** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:44 pm

Looks good Chemaki (pimpmygun utilization aside

).

I believe some other people were creating some hypothetical domestic arms on IRC yesterday. I, of course, encourage you to do the same.

Also, (ATTN: Kemet/Chemaki/Africa ect ect) I TGed Abream and she's up for a diplomatic thread.

I'm probably going to post over at it in an hour or so. Perhaps all of active Africa could show up? That way we have an idea of what the sides are, and whose around.

by **Old Tyrannia** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:48 pm

Maxen von Bismarck wrote:Looks good Chemaki (pimpmygun utilization aside ).

I believe some other people were creating some hypothetical domestic arms on IRC yesterday. I, of course, encourage you to do the same.

Also, (ATTN: Kemet/Chemaki/Africa ect ect) I TGed Abream and she's up for a diplomatic thread.

I'm probably going to post over at it in an hour or so. Perhaps all of active Africa could show up? That way we have an idea of what the sides are, and whose around.

Just a warning, I'm quite busy recently, with another RP group having a complete reboot that means I have to create a whole new factbook and such. But I'll try to post.

by **Cassanos** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:01 pm

Abruzi wrote:I'd like to also move that weapons such as the MG3 (modernized MG42) are available to everyone in Europe because the EU on a whole uses them. Would make things oh so simple if we could say,

"Oh hey, Germany uses the G36K. Italy is in the Eu, Germany is in the EU they both have the G36 in their arsenal....they both can produce it in AMW!"

Just a thought guise.

Uhm... You know, I'm not quite comfortable with that, since RL-Germany is a large supplies for Europe's smaller and medium-sized militaries. Using that system, every nation using, say, the G3, MG3 or G36 IRL in some quantity (which are most European nations) could produce it. And that doesn't even begin to cover the current and former users of the Leopard 1 and 2 (Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Poland, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland, from the top of my head) or the Gepard (Netherlands, Belgium and Romania), etc. I have already established that Nibelunc is a prolific exporter of weapons, but only to more liberal nations, with very strict regulations on weapons exports. Thus, I'd be completely fine with Chrinthanium, Belgeland, Valendia or Virginia using Nibelung weapons, but if a nation is using Nibelung equipment, we'd need to talk about that before.
Only because nations are allied (as in the EU) IRL does not mean it's like that in AMW, especially since in AMW, large parts of Europe are not exactly democracies.
It's not too simple, granted, but there can be replacements found for pretty much any piece of equipment. For instance, if a nation can't use RL-German machine guns, it might use Belgen FN-MAGs, etc. I'm of course willing to help out anyone with a problem in that area to find an alternative.

Plus I probably didn't respond during the Reboot because most of this military crap flies over my head, I can't make heads or tails over half the tedious debates that Bedd starts, I had to have Cass put together a very basic format for SOME of my army because I couldn't figure out how to do it myself (it's just sooooooo boring and complicated).

Pah. Boring? No, dear sir, no!

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