AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Walmington on Sea]

I would suggest, Nilo, that Bantu could get away with his attack on Walmington by making it at the right moment. During most of the 1980s the Godfreyites were at war in Dra-pol and in Eelam, and were quite concerned that Spyr and/or Uyghurstan may join in against them, where upon they would be outnumbered potentially hundreds to one, and may even be vulnerable to Belarusian opportunism in the home islands themselves.

However (in view of this desperate situation) in 1988 the Walmingtonians made the first use of nuclear weapons in world history, halting the Communist Drapoel with a tactical strike on General Hozaro's 100th Assault Division and ending that war rather abruptly. For this to work, I suppose it would be best that Bantu have acted before then! Ideally, I think, shortly before, perhaps in '87, thus leaving the Empire in a state of panic and helping to prompt the extreme strategy in Dra-pol.

[Chrinthanium]

Or just kick the crap outta the Walmies like we did!

A few aboriginal tribes, the Chrinthani, and the Walmingtonian-Chrinthani's who didn't like rule from across the world! Ask us, we can help!

[Nilosahara]

Thanks Walmy. I'll be writing into history that Bantu inherited Falster's Mirage 2000 and Mirage 4000 fleet as well as a few dozen exocets. But Walmington ends up unintentionally saving the world!

[Walmington on Sea]

You're just lucky we didn't have the Umsombomvu Device back then, Chrinthanium, or you'd have got the Hozaro treatment, too, you damnable rebel!

Sounds good, Nilosahara. The Walmingtonian Spice Islands probably couldn't have put up much of a fight in the 1980s, and may in fact have been seen as something of a refuge from fighting in Ceyloba (Tamil Eelam) and Drapol, perhaps most of the military personnel there being casualties evacuated from those theatres to recover. 'Warships' there would probably have been a handfull of fisheries protection boats and armed trawlers and merchants, or reactivated submarine chasers and gunboats of Great War vintage. It'd probably be like Operation Vijay and Portugal's attempt to hold Goa against India IRL... utterly futile.

I wonder, how would Bantu have handled the take-over? Given recent events in Nilosahara I wonder about the fate of POWs and other Walmingtonian subjects. I mean, normally, faced with such overwhelming local force, the Walmingtonian governor of the islands would have only two choices: surrender out-right, or call Bantu's bluff and hope he backs down. But since Bantu launched a surprise strike, it would have been already obvious that there was no bluff about it, and probably the token garrison would have surrendered quickly, being probably outnumbered several thousand to one, and with zero air cover.

Thus Bantu's forces could just walk in after the initial strike, and I wonder if this would have lead to a relatively dignified, "Okay, you win" sort of withdrawal, with the Walmingtonians quietly lowering their colours and taking the first ship to Port Mavis on the Cape, or whether Bantu/his men would have taken the whites prisoner or run amok on the islands, or whatever else.

[Chrinthanium]

Hey now, it wasn't just Chrinthani's and aboriginals who revolted, but also Walmingtonians who didn't like being Walmingtonian... not everyone is into Godfreyiteism. Then the power vacuum left behind let an empire form that did to other people what Walmington did to it. Luckily we mellowed out over the last 150 years.

[Chrinthanium]

So, when did we let Mexitopia claim 325,000,000 people in India alone and Chemaki claim 267,000,000 people? What I missing in these discussions?

Chemaki... what area's do you claim again. Can't find a list anywhere. Also, reading your factbook on the offsite, the US Dollar doesn't exist, so you can't use it as your currency.

[Maxen von Bismarck]

I think the idea was that they would post a factbook, and then we would find some time to offer constructive alterations to it, on the offsite. On account of the chaotic time they joined, they posted but AMW's idea-shooter-downers never got around to posting in their factbooks.

[Chrinthanium]

Don't worry, I'm here

Chemaki and Mexitopia.... not trying to rain on the parade, but before we continue, we really need to sit down and work a few things out. I don't remember Chemaki ever actually being approved, outside of being allowed to post on the offsite, and the same with Mexitopia. While their factbooks are posted, I don't think I got around to reading them much. Hell, up until about two weeks ago, I didnt even know that Chemaki was in Africa! HAH! And I think that I'm on NS and the offsite pretty often, so me missing it is probably a big thing.

The idea that Chemaki is so dirt poor that it can't afford to give a crap makes me feel better about it, yet stilll...... a quarter billion? And Mexitopia, don't know where he got his numbers from, but he was only off by 200,000,000 million people, though his mostly absent behavior makes me think that we won't have to worry about this soon.

Population is high important in AMW, as we're finding out.

[Dra-pol]

Thanks to those who've made efforts to direct everyone to the discussion thread... we'll lose track of applications amidst all the chatter, if we're not careful (it has happened before, as this debate rather suggests!).

The fact that the Uyghurs managed to hold on to the territory of the current claim throughout the entire 18th and 19th century without loss is a little strange too and, again, doesn't provide any handicaps for a nation of its size.

While I agree with what's being said about Uyghur population and military might, I have to say on this particular quote that the Khaganate did lose some territory during the mentioned period, being defeated by the Walmingtonians in RL Sri Lanka and failing to take from them the (Nilosaharan) Spice Islands. And there's no particular reason why Asian nations had to be losing out in that period in AMW, anyway.


Meanwhile, I think Mexatopia sort of deserves an apology since his application came in at the worst possible time, really, straddling the last big upheaval, and pretty much fell through the cracks. However, I think much of the problem can be solved by just cutting out some of his territory and arriving at broadly the population he'd incorrectly listed, in any case. On mainland India, why not keep just Tamil Nadu and Kerala? Added to 80% of Sri Lanka plus Madagascar and the Lakshadweep (if that was what you'd intended to claim?) it's probably less than 140 million people, thus a middle income economy would be acceptable, I think, to most of us, especially if he ends up bordered by a hostile Vexia of whatever size and strength.

Thoughts, Mex?

[Acadzia]

Thanks to those who've made efforts to direct everyone to the discussion thread... we'll lose track of applications amidst all the chatter, if we're not careful (it has happened before, as this debate rather suggests!).

The fact that the Uyghurs managed to hold on to the territory of the current claim throughout the entire 18th and 19th century without loss is a little strange too and, again, doesn't provide any handicaps for a nation of its size.

While I agree with what's being said about Uyghur population and military might, I have to say on this particular quote that the Khaganate did lose some territory during the mentioned period, being defeated by the Walmingtonians in RL Sri Lanka and failing to take from them the (Nilosaharan) Spice Islands. And there's no particular reason why Asian nations had to be losing out in that period in AMW, anyway.


Meanwhile, I think Mexatopia sort of deserves an apology since his application came in at the worst possible time, really, straddling the last big upheaval, and pretty much fell through the cracks. However, I think much of the problem can be solved by just cutting out some of his territory and arriving at broadly the population he'd incorrectly listed, in any case. On mainland India, why not keep just Tamil Nadu and Kerala? Added to 80% of Sri Lanka plus Madagascar and the Lakshadweep (if that was what you'd intended to claim?) it's probably less than 140 million people, thus a middle income economy would be acceptable, I think, to most of us, especially if he ends up bordered by a hostile Vexia of whatever size and strength.

Thoughts, Mex?

Ditto to all of this. On point as always, O Venerable One!

[Chrinthanium]

While I would like to give such an apology, he sits 22 days without government activity. This is distressing because, unfortunately, it would cause yet another AMW nation to go the way of the dodo.

[Chemaki]

So, when did we let Mexitopia claim 325,000,000 people in India alone and Chemaki claim 267,000,000 people? What I missing in these discussions?

Chemaki... what area's do you claim again. Can't find a list anywhere. Also, reading your factbook on the offsite, the US Dollar doesn't exist, so you can't use it as your currency.

I swore I put a map up...

Anyways, it's an area which encompasses Mali, Niger, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Benin, Togo, Ghana, Chad, Cameroon, the North-West of the Central African Republic, Ivory Coast, Guinea, Liberia and Sierra-Leone, as well as a large patch of unclaimed South Algeria around the Ahaggar Mountains.

Since I know that, both by land and population, it is quite oversized, my nation is incredibly, incredibly poor, if you've read any of the extracts that relate to the Hetmanate. Also, I'm doing the population at about half the RL population to take into account the technological backlog which would result in little food, no healthcare, and almost-absent sanitation.

Anyways, if the US$ doesn't exist, what's its nearest equivelent (I.e. the most widely-used, or, possibly, strongest currency)?

[Beddgelert]

What's this sudden surge of people thinking they can alter their populations in AMW? That's half the point. You can't, up or down.

Also, huh? I don't remember reference to Algeria, the CAR, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone...

Mali, Niger, Chad, Cameroon, Nigeria, Benin, Togo, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast I remember reading. Uff [goes off to do more research in capacity as current-map-guy]

Edit, okay, after some poking about it seems that Liberia and Sierra Leone were mentioned in your application, but I don't see anything about Guinea until your last post in this thread, ditto the CAR and Algeria, but then in different parts of the same posts on your application you have two different lists of nations, one mentioning Liberia and Sierra Leone, the other not, and neither mentioning Guinea, Algeria, or the Central African Republic.

Some confusion to clear up, methinks.

[Chemaki]

What's this sudden surge of people thinking they can alter their populations in AMW? That's half the point. You can't, up or down.

Also, huh? I don't remember reference to Algeria, the CAR, Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone...

Mali, Niger, Chad, Cameroon, Nigeria, Benin, Togo, Ghana, Burkina Faso, Ivory Coast I remember reading. Uff [goes off to do more research in capacity as current-map-guy]

I don't mind that.


And as for the population, IDK whether I included the actual populations, or half, because, just-as-much as you want to keep the populations realistic, the population in AMW wouldn't possibly be that high if the countries were under control of the Hetmanate rather than under the control of themselves, which is the case IRL. It's a similar thing with the whole Americas, I guess. If someone made a Native-American tribal state there, it probably would have a significantly lower population if the state wasn't ever colonized, IC, and land wouldn't be farmed en masse, and food wouldn't be imported. to support the amount of people that America does now.

[Beddgelert]

Well, they wouldn't get final approval if they made a claim that didn't make sense. Population is set in stone, you just don't make claims that you can't justify, you don't change the world to suit a claim, or the whole point of AMW is kinda gone

I'm a bit confused actually about the level of poverty and internal power in the Hetmanate (and why exactly it has an East European title but not apparently an East European culture?). If it is in some way 'Somalia-like', then surely it can't hold on to the vast majority of its territory or population, and most of the country is independent from it in de facto terms, all be it 'claimed but not administered' by the Hetman?

[Chrinthanium]

I think they're either in here or the application thread, but there are a few times where I voiced my confusion over Chemaki's claim. One day he was sort of here, and don't remember too much about how he got here. Nor do I remember ever finding out what RL Nations, until today, his claim entailed. I can assure you no matter how poor everyone is, 267 million would have been denied from my end.

[Chrinthanium]

Perhaps, Walmington on Sea, an ealier discuss between us may be beneficial to both. Maybhe we should readdress a Chrintho-Walmingtonian military alliance. We are prepared to help make up your shortfall since Gurgs departure in exchange for basing rights. Perhaps a joint intelligence agency? Perhaps Chrinthani attitudes may be changing in this version of AMW

[Ferkas]

So, anyone want to help me out here? I haven't really done anything with this sense joining up. To be honest, I'm not sure where to go with it from here. I have a (sparse) factbook on the offsite forum, and could definitly put some effort into filling that out. Of course to do that I would need some ideas about how we would have played into the international scene for the last couple hundred years.

[Maxen von Bismarck]

So, anyone want to help me out here? I haven't really done anything with this sense joining up. To be honest, I'm not sure where to go with it from here. I have a (sparse) factbook on the offsite forum, and could definitly put some effort into filling that out. Of course to do that I would need some ideas about how we would have played into the international scene for the last couple hundred years.

Holy shit, a wild Ferkas!

Hey man, if you need someone to RP with... The Autokrat could visit tomorrow-ish.

[Ferkas]

I am definitly interested in any kind of RP. I actually have tons of free time these next few weeks (a lax finals schedule then a long winter break), so if you have any ideas, feel free!

[Chrinthanium]

EH, Ferkas, I mean, a Christian Kingdom is probably not something that would interest the Imperial Federation of Chrinthanium much. We're a very secular people who believe that religion is too oppressive to have in the hands of the State.

Though, we've no reason not like yous guys!

[Modravia]

And we openly hate religion. Christianity in particular.

[Maxen von Bismarck]

EH, Ferkas, I mean, a Christian Kingdom is probably not something that would interest the Imperial Federation of Chrinthanium much. We're a very secular people who believe that religion is too oppressive to have in the hands of the State.

Though, we've no reason not like yous guys!

Nothing like a good international burning to get you atheists in order.

[Chrinthanium]

pfft.... whatever. We're not worried about some North African religious flea trap that does nothing other than waggle it's finger at the rest of the world in judgement. I mean, after all, we're friends with Constantinople--who has a bigger finger to wag--and that works out fine. Unless ol Tiberius tells another one of our groups that they can't sing x y and z... cause that's just wrong!

[Maxen von Bismarck]

I am definitly interested in any kind of RP. I actually have tons of free time these next few weeks (a lax finals schedule then a long winter break), so if you have any ideas, feel free!

Alright man, it's up!