AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Europe - Prussia]

(...) I know that Valendia has Brunei as a colony and that it lies well within the region I'm concerned with. If they colonised it before the Margraves arrived in Asia then they'd be part of the scenery by then, or they might do a deal with the alliance where both sides leave each other alone (I shall check with Europe-Prussia). (...)

Valendia conquered the Sultanate of Brunei (though considering the lack of powerful Islamic states on the Arabian peninsula capable of expanding Islam through SE Asia I suppose it would be the Kingdom of Brunei) in the 1500's, so they are veeery well established by the time the Margraves had the thought of forming Marimaia. The empire wouldn't have cared of Marimaia's expansion into Borneo, but if they tried the same tricks that they used on the Philippines on the Valendians or had tried to harass the population then the empire would have retaliated, quite brutally in fact.

There's also the slavery part to consider: by the 1800's slavery was forbidden on the empire, so if by then the slave trade was still strong, while Valendia wouldn't have declared war, they would have financed pirates and corsairs to disrupt the trade in every way possible.

There's another option however: if the lack of continuity on the map bothers you so much, I'm not opposed to give up Brunei and claim another piece of land instead, provided there's no objections from the others, and there's a territory in SE Asia with similar characteristics to Brunei (position and natural resources).

[Chrinthanium]

I thought the last expansion was the limits to the most plausible Marimaian claim? The map is a few clicks of your color in the right spots. I also use layers, so no plugging in a partial map.

You may not lose too much in the way of defense if the British want you to go to war with Chrinthania, but we're definitely able to make Marimaia's life hell for a while. Not that Britain would do that. And Britain wouldn't want you to go to war with Chrinthania. That was, after all, a British colony at one point (yup, going that way, but much earlier in time). The British view the Chrinthani as a prodigal son who will never be allowed back home because all that hippie stuff means all organic, farm-fresh ingredients which causes way too much flatulence and the Chrinthani are far too fond of walking around in thongs and that could result in dirty feet and that would muck up the carpet. No, we can't have that. If the carpet is all mucky, then the British can't invite people to tea and that is a grievous sin from which there can be no forgiveness.

I have to let that history rattle around in my head. The British probably wouldn't accept a treaty in which they were "allowed" to retain Singapore. That's our city-state and we have it with or without Marimaian permission. AS far as the British leaving that area, they may opt to offload those additional territories due to some internal issue I've yet to create to cause us to not want to be that far East/West (whichever way you lot look at it).. or some other internal strife that often strikes global empires.

We have our Major-generals, who are very knowledgeable about a myriad of topics, in particular... colonizing on horseback. In fact, you'll say a better Major-general has never sat a gee. I'm already getting visions of how those colonies were set up.

Eh, I can't come up with any desire to object or otherwise oppose outside of Chrinthania being even more outnumbered than before, which is becoming a problem Guess we'll have to find a way to up the birthrates down undah.

Fair enough with the map. My opinion is that under the premise of the Margraves showing up, clearing out the Philippines etc. with only assistance from incoming colonists and hired mercenaries then yes, the last expansion was the limit to the most plausible claim. Under the premise that they formed partnerships with neighbouring island princedoms who were into slavery and saw an advantage in working with these well-equipped newcomers, then the territories I've asked for are those neighbouring princedoms having become autonomous regions as the relationship between the princes and the Margraves became more and more unequal over time. It's less 'all-conquering' and shows that the Margraves can actually play with others for an extended period of time, although ultimately they will always be looking to their own advantage

The treaty wasn't meant as "Britain gets to hold Singapore with Marimaian permission", it was meant as "in return for Marimaia getting Sarawak, they promise to support the British position in Singapore and not mess with it". If the British are having to pull most of their assets out of the region for whatever reason, it wouldn't hurt to secure some degree of assistance from locals. It was just an idea though, that whole aspect of stuff ultimately depends on which areas were colonised, the reason for the British withdrawal and the state of British-Marimaian relations during that time, and that's obviously a work-in-progress.

The idea of Britain going to war with Chrinthania is obviously highly unlikely, but it's an example of the type of situation where a strong Marimaian military is necessary. If the Margraves are too dependent on the British in defense matters then it's more difficult for them to say 'no'; if Marimaia can hold her own then the Margraves have much more freedom to follow their own foreign policy even if it runs counter to that of the British. Besides that, a strong military would explain why deposed foreign royal families see Marimaia as a potential refuge despite the proximity to Dra-pol and Soviet India (obviously there's also the fact that the Margraves would provide a more traditional work-shy lifestyle for foreign royalty while I'm guessing the Brits would make them work for citizenship, but you're not going to flee to somewhere if you're not going to feel safe there). Combined with the Royal Security Commission (secret police/intelligence) enjoying a budget of $20,009,758,136.52 with the slight increase in GDP, Marimaia should be a fairly safe haven.

British imperialism is, at first, directed at the New World, but when it becomes apparent that the New World isn’t quite as profitable as it was once thought, it pushes into the South Atlantic and forges colonies in Africa, then into the Indian Ocean including India, then Singapore, then other places in Asia that may want/desire British interference as new claims appear there (hopefully). Singapore would’ve been a fall back for failures in Asia since it is, at least at the time, easily defensible (being, y’know, islands). Now, just across the Johor Strait are over a hundred million Drapoel probably wanting very much to invade, but still waiting for Hotan to give the word. So, it's probably, in the present day, fairly guarded.

Still, an attempt by Marimaia to invade Singapore would see enough bayonets and cannon pointed at you to send your army home looking like swiss cheese.

I suppose what could potentially expel the British from Borneo, et al. is reluctance to keep spending money colonizing something when it keeps fighting back. After so many millions of pounds and thousands of lives, we’ll start to rethink the idea.. In a few years. Perhaps enough of the ‘princes’ on Borneo and the rest are able to muster a united resistance that eventually proves effective enough for us to pack up our crap, toss Marimaia the keys, and go back to Singapore.

How Singapore is built and how it still works (somewhat) to this day is as a major trading port for Britain. While Asia itself is not particularly populated with claims, the ideas behind it is that spices and teas and other goods from Asia come into Singapore, then are sent back to Britain. Britain can also sell her wares to the East via Singapore. It is very much a commercial center for the British Empire. Dubai functions in the same way, though mostly dealing with British oil in this post 1950s world.

It should be obvious that the AMW British aren’t interested in exercising suzerainty over Marimaia. That’s why we have dominions. We've enough people to boss around. No need to boss around other people.

(...) I know that Valendia has Brunei as a colony and that it lies well within the region I'm concerned with. If they colonised it before the Margraves arrived in Asia then they'd be part of the scenery by then, or they might do a deal with the alliance where both sides leave each other alone (I shall check with Europe-Prussia). (...)

Valendia conquered the Sultanate of Brunei (though considering the lack of powerful Islamic states on the Arabian peninsula capable of expanding Islam through SE Asia I suppose it would be the Kingdom of Brunei) in the 1500's, so they are veeery well established by the time the Margraves had the thought of forming Marimaia. The empire wouldn't have cared of Marimaia's expansion into Borneo, but if they tried the same tricks that they used on the Philippines or had tried to harass the local population then the empire would have retaliated, quite brutally in fact.

There's also the slavery part to consider: by the 1800's slavery was forbidden on the empire, so if by then the slave trade was still strong, while Valendia wouldn't have declared war, they would have financed pirates and corsairs to disrupt the trade in every way possible.

There's another option however: if the lack of continuity on the map bothers you so much, I'm not opposed to give up Brunei and claim another piece of land instead, provided there's no objections from the others, and there's a territory in SE Asia with similar characteristics to Brunei (position and natural resources).

Well, the British were there first. So, if you're fighting us during part of this time, add that into the incursions by the local princedoms, and next thing you know the British probably would hand the entire lot to Marimaia. Better to kill them instead of us


And... British history talk...

I was thinking of keeping British history roughly as it was IRL until the Norman Conquest. I may have them penetrate in, but not be quite as successful as RL. Eventually having then overthrown at some point. This would reduce the necessity of having a lot of future British kings trying to invade France for rights that may or may not be theirs in the first place. Or, the White Ship Disaster may not happen and give the House of Normandy some more time on the throne but still having a King John moment when all French claims were sold/lost/otherwise no longer viable for the British monarchs.

[Marimaia]

(...) I know that Valendia has Brunei as a colony and that it lies well within the region I'm concerned with. If they colonised it before the Margraves arrived in Asia then they'd be part of the scenery by then, or they might do a deal with the alliance where both sides leave each other alone (I shall check with Europe-Prussia). (...)

Valendia conquered the Sultanate of Brunei (though considering the lack of powerful Islamic states on the Arabian peninsula capable of expanding Islam through SE Asia I suppose it would be the Kingdom of Brunei) in the 1500's, so they are veeery well established by the time the Margraves had the thought of forming Marimaia. The empire wouldn't have cared of Marimaia's expansion into Borneo, but if they tried the same tricks that they used on the Philippines on the Valendians or had tried to harass the population then the empire would have retaliated, quite brutally in fact.

There's also the slavery part to consider: by the 1800's slavery was forbidden on the empire, so if by then the slave trade was still strong, while Valendia wouldn't have declared war, they would have financed pirates and corsairs to disrupt the trade in every way possible.

There's another option however: if the lack of continuity on the map bothers you so much, I'm not opposed to give up Brunei and claim another piece of land instead, provided there's no objections from the others, and there's a territory in SE Asia with similar characteristics to Brunei (position and natural resources).

The lack of continuity on the map doesn't bother me at all, and I'm certainly not asking you to give up Brunei or anything even remotely like that. It was never my intention to even suggest anything like that.

The reason why I brought up Brunei was because I wanted to check with you regarding when you colonised it, because I saw that Valendia had banned slavery in 1800 and subsequently launched actions against two of your colonies for not abiding by that. With the whole idea of Marimaia supporting the slavery practises of local princedoms, it made sense to consider how long you'd been in the area because Valendia had proven itself to be highly anti-slavery and you may well have been taking action against the local slave trade. I couldn't see an establishment date in your factbook for the Brunei colony so I was curious about when it had been founded.

If the Valendians were financing local pirates and corsairs to disrupt the slave trade of the princedoms then that could have actually helped the Margraves to further ingratiate themselves with the princedoms by helping to fight local piracy.

[Chrinthanium]

I'm going to put this out there as a sort of rough idea of British Imperialism in AMW coupled with its relatively new-found "fascism."

While other empires may have relied on the act of conquering to gain territory, the British took a more Roman approach. They built their empire through enfranchisement. You were now a citizen in a British Empire and enjoyed all the rights and privileges such a position brought with it: stable government, defense, rule of law, and even British religion. Areas in which the British eventually brought into the empire would have potentially preferred British rule than the alternatives floating around which may include barbarous tribes nearby more interested in this tribes' destruction. The British would have also brought education to regions that were part of the empire. They would have taught the locals to read and write (in English, obviously). The British would have supported local leaders who were aligned with the British against those who were not. Most of the empire building would not have been done as a specific case of invade and conquer. It would have been a more gradual inclusion in an entity larger than a particular nation-state. The British also didn't force their culture on their imperial possessions. They were allowed to keep their gods and superstitions. They were allowed to keep their native identity. It was just that British culture was added into the mix as the culture of the local nobility. Much like with how the Normans aristocrats spoke in French, the colonial aristocracy would speak English and drank tea. This isn't to say that the British Army didn't do its part. British history will be littered with stories of wars and battles fought in obtaining territory. It just is that the military options weren't the first options the British went for.

British fascism in AMW works differently than I had originally envisioned. It's more a responsive movement to the changing times. As dominions and principalities within the empire were given devolution, voices rose complaining about the end of a British empire and the loss of her influence around the world. The British feared nations like California and America and eventually Chrinthania were having too much influence with the British people. Ideas of complete personal freedom without responsibility to the government that granted it. Feelings that individualism was going to not only undermine the rule of law but that people would no longer be willing to feel a certain kinship with their fellow countrymen. As the Communists waged war with Britain, and it became clear that Britain was fighting a war it could not win, it also feared the rise of communism. Perhaps not so much the ideology as a whole, but more the way in which it seemed forced upon the people of India (doesn't matter whether that's true, that's how it is viewed in Britain) at gun point. That such an event could happen in any territory or, more worryingly, in Britain itself. It pushed back against those ideas. Believed that the people should care more about the nation than their simple individual liberties. You were a citizen in a British Empire that spanned 4 continents. You were part of a glorious empire that was bigger than any the world had seen at least until that time. You were to sacrifice for its benefit and to join in the rewards of its success. So yes, a gay man or a black man can make it in this British Empire because the empire doesn't care whether or not your are those things; it only cares that you believe in the empire itself and are willing to sacrifice everything--including your fortune and your life--in defense of everything Britain stands for. Again, since every right you have comes from the State, you are beholden to the State. Yes, there very well will be those who come along with more monstrous ideas about how it should work. They may even get into power for a time. However, in the modern day, it is a tempered fascism--a modern fascism, if you will--that believes in State above all including the labels people use to describe themselves and others.

British foreign policy is made very simple. Britain will do what is in the best interest for Britain and will not set her needs aside because it may be inconvenient for another nation. Even though Britain is in alliance with other governments, it doesn't mean that Britain wants to give those nations marching orders. Marimaia should do what is best for Marimaia and the Walmingtonians should do what's best for Walmington, and the Gulfers should do what's best for TUGS. Where we have kindred goals, then we shall work together. Where our desires differ, we shall go it alone.

I suppose that is the general idea of how AMW's Britain will work... in a nutshell.

[Chrinthanium]

Right, so.... British things again....

So everyone is aware, here is the capital ship idea of the British Empire... again. CVA-01s are probably the carriers, HMS Ocean will replace the Invincible-class. I have promised Marimaia he can have an invincible-class and I think Walmington should have the rest. I've given the QEs to EP. There's other talk going on in the IRC about things, but I'll let the others talk about that because it isn't so much my idea to talk about.

[Europe - Prussia]

Valendia conquered the Sultanate of Brunei (though considering the lack of powerful Islamic states on the Arabian peninsula capable of expanding Islam through SE Asia I suppose it would be the Kingdom of Brunei) in the 1500's, so they are veeery well established by the time the Margraves had the thought of forming Marimaia. The empire wouldn't have cared of Marimaia's expansion into Borneo, but if they tried the same tricks that they used on the Philippines on the Valendians or had tried to harass the population then the empire would have retaliated, quite brutally in fact.

There's also the slavery part to consider: by the 1800's slavery was forbidden on the empire, so if by then the slave trade was still strong, while Valendia wouldn't have declared war, they would have financed pirates and corsairs to disrupt the trade in every way possible.

There's another option however: if the lack of continuity on the map bothers you so much, I'm not opposed to give up Brunei and claim another piece of land instead, provided there's no objections from the others, and there's a territory in SE Asia with similar characteristics to Brunei (position and natural resources).

The lack of continuity on the map doesn't bother me at all, and I'm certainly not asking you to give up Brunei or anything even remotely like that. It was never my intention to even suggest anything like that.

The reason why I brought up Brunei was because I wanted to check with you regarding when you colonised it, because I saw that Valendia had banned slavery in 1800 and subsequently launched actions against two of your colonies for not abiding by that. With the whole idea of Marimaia supporting the slavery practises of local princedoms, it made sense to consider how long you'd been in the area because Valendia had proven itself to be highly anti-slavery and you may well have been taking action against the local slave trade. I couldn't see an establishment date in your factbook for the Brunei colony so I was curious about when it had been founded.

If the Valendians were financing local pirates and corsairs to disrupt the slave trade of the princedoms then that could have actually helped the Margraves to further ingratiate themselves with the princedoms by helping to fight local piracy.

Ah, coolio, and my apologies if my suggestion bothered you. Also, if you don't mind, I'll post in the "It's Called "Nobility"" thread to introduce a new ambassador, considering mutual interest in the area, like Dra-Pol, Soviet India and the ever-present chaos that is Gandvik

Now, onto other matters....

As some of you may, or may not, remember, some time ago I claimed the Indian aircraft carrier Vikrant class because 1) was available, and 2) none of the countries that are part of my claim have a blue (or green) water navy, plus the fact that there's some Airbus designs of a carrier-based Eurofighter from when they attempted to sell it to the Indians. However, after some talk on the IRC with Chrin and BG, I will give up the Vikrant, which will be taken by BG, and, with Chrin's permission, take the Queen Elizabeth class in its stead.

However, with a new type of carrier I will need a new type of aircraft, so if no one minds I'd like to claim the F-35. Because technically the Eurofighter is part of my claim too, if I'm allowed to take the F-35 I would give up all my claims to the Eurofighter so Chrin, or any other who has as part of its claim one of the countries that built it, can claim it. Not only there's no sense in having an advanced aircraft in one claim, but also it would be very, very expensive.

[Chrinthanium]

Since I'm not able to sleep until I put this out there about the conversation that led us to my previous and E-P's above post, here it goes...

I'd rather not field any more questions about what British things other people can have until I get a chance to sit down and work out just what the British Armed Services consist of and their equipment. The discussion in the IRC boiled down to me basically saying no and Beddgelert protesting. And rather than fight, and after trying to convince myself BG was right, I gave in (which, to a point, I regret). Since I have stated the fate of the QE-class, I will not go back on that (but I do add I do it hesitantly). Just, please stop asking me for things right now. I've got so much going on in building this thing up--an undertaking larger than anything I have ever done in AMW, I might add--that I really have only the faintest idea of what the British military will look like and I am still not sold on all the things I've discussed in this thread regarding the British military thus far outside of Walmingtonian-British cooperation (which I believe WoS and I both need). And I did state that the class was basically a waste of multiple billions and would need half the RN to protect it in its current configuration. I was under the impress the Right of First Refusal meant that I had the option of refusing to use something, which then put it into the public domain. I am still very far from finalizing anything outside of the actual territorial extent of the British Empire.

If you must know, I'm more concerned with building British history than anything else right now and renaming everything in the UK. The military bit is a few pegs below that with culture and economy ranked above. In my history book that I'm reading on RL British history, I'm only up to the arrival of the Vikings in pre-Norman Britain, so... there's like 1300 years worth of history for me to read before I even begin to write just how Britain went from an abandoned Roman province to a major world power. And, to be frank, in order to be as fair as I thought I could be, anyone who had history with Britain when WoS controlled it was told quite clearly that they could keep it with carte blanche to write it how they wanted (within reason) provided it happened within their own borders. I'll write the reciprocal bit in my history since that part would've happened within my borders and we can collaborate on all the finer details.

A simple look through the Wiki article on active ships of the German Navy shows that there's enough there to at least piece together a navy of some sort. I'm certain Cass would argue its finer points and not hide its weaknesses. It may not be a navy by which to maintain the protection of a global empire, though. That's as much research into Valendia as I'm going to be able to do.

Anyway, it's very very late and I have to work. Bedtime calls.... or, rather, has been calling for some time.

EDITED: for typos, which there may still be some since the text is now forwards, backwards, and dancing a merengue before my eyes.

[Marimaia]

Ah, coolio, and my apologies if my suggestion bothered you. Also, if you don't mind, I'll post in the "It's Called "Nobility"" thread to introduce a new ambassador, considering mutual interest in the area, like Dra-Pol, Soviet India and the ever-present chaos that is Gandvik

No worries about it, we got it sorted. Feel free to post in "It's Called "Nobility"" with a new ambassador, there's probably quite a bit that we can discuss

Since I'm not able to sleep until I put this out there about the conversation that led us to my previous and E-P's above post, here it goes...

I'd rather not field any more questions about what British things other people can have until I get a chance to sit down and work out just what the British Armed Services consist of and their equipment. The discussion in the IRC boiled down to me basically saying no and Beddgelert protesting. And rather than fight, and after trying to convince myself BG was right, I gave in (which, to a point, I regret). Since I have stated the fate of the QE-class, I will not go back on that (but I do add I do it hesitantly). Just, please stop asking me for things right now. I've got so much going on in building this thing up--an undertaking larger than anything I have ever done in AMW, I might add--that I really have only the faintest idea of what the British military will look like and I am still not sold on all the things I've discussed in this thread regarding the British military thus far outside of Walmingtonian-British cooperation (which I believe WoS and I both need). And I did state that the class was basically a waste of multiple billions and would need half the RN to protect it in its current configuration. I was under the impress the Right of First Refusal meant that I had the option of refusing to use something, which then put it into the public domain. I am still very far from finalizing anything outside of the actual territorial extent of the British Empire.

If you must know, I'm more concerned with building British history than anything else right now and renaming everything in the UK. The military bit is a few pegs below that with culture and economy ranked above. In my history book that I'm reading on RL British history, I'm only up to the arrival of the Vikings in pre-Norman Britain, so... there's like 1300 years worth of history for me to read before I even begin to write just how Britain went from an abandoned Roman province to a major world power. And, to be frank, in order to be as fair as I thought I could be, anyone who had history with Britain when WoS controlled it was told quite clearly that they could keep it with carte blanche to write it how they wanted (within reason) provided it happened within their own borders. I'll write the reciprocal bit in my history since that part would've happened within my borders and we can collaborate on all the finer details.

A simple look through the Wiki article on active ships of the German Navy shows that there's enough there to at least piece together a navy of some sort. I'm certain Cass would argue its finer points and not hide its weaknesses. It may not be a navy by which to maintain the protection of a global empire, though. That's as much research into Valendia as I'm going to be able to do.

Anyway, it's very very late and I have to work. Bedtime calls.... or, rather, has been calling for some time.

EDITED: for typos, which there may still be some since the text is now forwards, backwards, and dancing a merengue before my eyes.

No problem Chrin, if there's anything I can potentially help with then feel free to ask

[Chrinthanium]

Ah, coolio, and my apologies if my suggestion bothered you. Also, if you don't mind, I'll post in the "It's Called "Nobility"" thread to introduce a new ambassador, considering mutual interest in the area, like Dra-Pol, Soviet India and the ever-present chaos that is Gandvik

No worries about it, we got it sorted. Feel free to post in "It's Called "Nobility"" with a new ambassador, there's probably quite a bit that we can discuss

Since I'm not able to sleep until I put this out there about the conversation that led us to my previous and E-P's above post, here it goes...

I'd rather not field any more questions about what British things other people can have until I get a chance to sit down and work out just what the British Armed Services consist of and their equipment. The discussion in the IRC boiled down to me basically saying no and Beddgelert protesting. And rather than fight, and after trying to convince myself BG was right, I gave in (which, to a point, I regret). Since I have stated the fate of the QE-class, I will not go back on that (but I do add I do it hesitantly). Just, please stop asking me for things right now. I've got so much going on in building this thing up--an undertaking larger than anything I have ever done in AMW, I might add--that I really have only the faintest idea of what the British military will look like and I am still not sold on all the things I've discussed in this thread regarding the British military thus far outside of Walmingtonian-British cooperation (which I believe WoS and I both need). And I did state that the class was basically a waste of multiple billions and would need half the RN to protect it in its current configuration. I was under the impress the Right of First Refusal meant that I had the option of refusing to use something, which then put it into the public domain. I am still very far from finalizing anything outside of the actual territorial extent of the British Empire.

If you must know, I'm more concerned with building British history than anything else right now and renaming everything in the UK. The military bit is a few pegs below that with culture and economy ranked above. In my history book that I'm reading on RL British history, I'm only up to the arrival of the Vikings in pre-Norman Britain, so... there's like 1300 years worth of history for me to read before I even begin to write just how Britain went from an abandoned Roman province to a major world power. And, to be frank, in order to be as fair as I thought I could be, anyone who had history with Britain when WoS controlled it was told quite clearly that they could keep it with carte blanche to write it how they wanted (within reason) provided it happened within their own borders. I'll write the reciprocal bit in my history since that part would've happened within my borders and we can collaborate on all the finer details.

A simple look through the Wiki article on active ships of the German Navy shows that there's enough there to at least piece together a navy of some sort. I'm certain Cass would argue its finer points and not hide its weaknesses. It may not be a navy by which to maintain the protection of a global empire, though. That's as much research into Valendia as I'm going to be able to do.

Anyway, it's very very late and I have to work. Bedtime calls.... or, rather, has been calling for some time.

EDITED: for typos, which there may still be some since the text is now forwards, backwards, and dancing a merengue before my eyes.

No problem Chrin, if there's anything I can potentially help with then feel free to ask

Thanks, Mari. Right now I just need to be able to concentrate on putting this all together before I wind up giving something away that I decide later I want/should use. I've only just settled the territorial claim, the disuse of RL British place names, and not to use the Union Jack. Those are the only final decisions made this far. With the restriction of the internet at work, I barely have time on weekdays to sort any of this out at home.

[Chrinthanium]

The lack of continuity on the map doesn't bother me at all, and I'm certainly not asking you to give up Brunei or anything even remotely like that. It was never my intention to even suggest anything like that.

The reason why I brought up Brunei was because I wanted to check with you regarding when you colonised it, because I saw that Valendia had banned slavery in 1800 and subsequently launched actions against two of your colonies for not abiding by that. With the whole idea of Marimaia supporting the slavery practises of local princedoms, it made sense to consider how long you'd been in the area because Valendia had proven itself to be highly anti-slavery and you may well have been taking action against the local slave trade. I couldn't see an establishment date in your factbook for the Brunei colony so I was curious about when it had been founded.

If the Valendians were financing local pirates and corsairs to disrupt the slave trade of the princedoms then that could have actually helped the Margraves to further ingratiate themselves with the princedoms by helping to fight local piracy.

Ah, coolio, and my apologies if my suggestion bothered you. Also, if you don't mind, I'll post in the "It's Called "Nobility"" thread to introduce a new ambassador, considering mutual interest in the area, like Dra-Pol, Soviet India and the ever-present chaos that is Gandvik

Now, onto other matters....

As some of you may, or may not, remember, some time ago I claimed the Indian aircraft carrier Vikrant class because 1) was available, and 2) none of the countries that are part of my claim have a blue (or green) water navy, plus the fact that there's some Airbus designs of a carrier-based Eurofighter from when they attempted to sell it to the Indians. However, after some talk on the IRC with Chrin and BG, I will give up the Vikrant, which will be taken by BG, and, with Chrin's permission, take the Queen Elizabeth class in its stead.

However, with a new type of carrier I will need a new type of aircraft, so if no one minds I'd like to claim the F-35. Because technically the Eurofighter is part of my claim too, if I'm allowed to take the F-35 I would give up all my claims to the Eurofighter so Chrin, or any other who has as part of its claim one of the countries that built it, can claim it. Not only there's no sense in having an advanced aircraft in one claim, but also it would be very, very expensive.

Right'o, then. Since the Eurofighter Typhoon is based off of a German and British plane of similar design, and EP is taking the F-35 and has Germany, with the RL British Aerospace EAP being a primary contributor to the design of the Typhoon, I take the Eurofighter Typhoon for Britain and her allies to work on and develop. Since France buggered off on the project to design the Rafael, and Zentrus occupies Portugal, France, and Spain... unless Italy wants to help build it, this could be something Britain and Walmington work on together (unless WoS decides against it, then I could do it).

So, rather than go in the order I have in my head of how I want to put things out there in factbook(ish) format.... I have decided to write an introductory post and then get straight into the military stuffs. This will help me clear up some very small chinks in the armor. It probably won't be a post that goes into numbers, just the equipment being used until I can write up a full military post (or a few) with ORBATs and the like down the line. I hope to have this posted by Sunday evening (Eastern US Time, that is).

[Chrinthanium]

Right, so I'm just going to post it in here...

The following is an incomplete list of British military apparatus. It is incomplete because I haven't gotten to everything as of yet....

Royal Navy:

First-rate Ship of the Line:
HMS Victory
Aircraft Carrier:
CVA-01
Submarine Service:
Vanguard-class
Astute-class
Trafalgar-class
Helicopter Carrier:
Ocean-class
Destroyers:
Daring (Type 45)-class (May wind up using the Type-82 Bristol-class instead)
Frigates:
Duke (Type 23)-class
Offshore Patrol:
River-class
Mine Countermeasures:
Hunt-class
Sandown-class
Patrol:
Archer-class
Scimitar-class

Royal Feel Auxiliary

Replenishment:
Wave-class
Fort Victoria-class
Fort Rosalie-class
Amphibious Warfare:
Bay-class
**Various transport ships, landing craft, hospital ship, and etc.. to be named later.

British Army

Armored Vehicles
Challenger II, Main battle tank
CVR(T), AFV
Warrior, AFV
Bulldog, AFV
Jackal, Coyote, PMV
Foxhound, PMV
RWMIK Land Rover
Snatch Land Rover
Artillery and Air Defense
L131 AS-90, self-propelled artillery
L118 light gun, towed-howitzer
vRapier, SAM
Starstreak SP HVM & Starstreak LML, SAM

Mobile Artillery Monitoring Battlefield Radar

Engineering and Logistics
Trojan Armored Vehicle Royal Engineers
Titan armored bridge layer
Challenger Armoured Repair and Recovery Vehicle (CRARRV)
Terrier Armoured Digger
Alvis Unipower tank bridge transporter
JCB HMEE, Talisman counter-IED
Leyland MMLC & Foden IMMLC

Others
Land Rover Wolf
Land Rover Pulse

I haven't had much luck thus far for the Royal Air Force. What I am settling on is using the Eurofighter for air superiority, the TSR-2 for strike capability (and Rule of Cool), Super Buccaneer for naval strike, and an upgraded Phantom for naval defense. That's as far as I have gone. Thus, it is still incomplete

[Chrinthanium]

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=420365 There's where the British factbook shall live

[Marimaia]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=420365 There's where the British factbook shall live

Noice

[Walmington on Sea]

Very nice, Chrin. Perhaps Walmington can assist Mother (as Britons will probably have to get used to slightly creepy upper-class Walmies calling their country) with the somewhat limited endurance of the CVA-01 by offering so many friendly ports throughout the Atlantic at our small stepping-stone colonies for top-ups en route to wherever. Unsinkable replenishment ships from the Faroes to the Falklands.

Does that list mean that I may keep the Invincible Class light carriers, as back in January-ish when you had Britain and Aus together as the Chrinthani Republic? I realise that you may not have decided as yet, but if you don't need it, I think that the Singaporean Endurance class amphibious warfare vessels may be ideal for mini-WoS. And the Upholder class D/E submarines that Britain gave up on and sold to Canada would be suitable for WoS as well, I think.

A lot of WoS's military would be configured with at least an after-thought to supporting Britain in a major war, possibly with America or the Soviets as worst-case scenarios ((we don't really think you're keen on war with America, but if we both get close with TUGS and Mari they might not give us a choice, some day?)), so the Invincibles would be intended to hunt Yankee submarines ((no, not Project 667As!)) while you fight their surface fleet, the Upholders would be ambush hunters in the Atlantic, and so on.

If you end up using the Type-82, may you never have needed the Type-42? In that case, I imagine it being a collaborative effort to give WoS a kind of little-sister to the Type-82, perhaps built in Walmy yards with British systems, or British yards with Walmy systems, whatever makes more sense.

I can see WoS being a junior partner on the Typhoon. It's probably a big controversy here due to how much it ends up costing us and how few we can afford. We'll not be able to buy enough to base squadrons in every significant colony, and won't always have the means to move them round on short notice.

There are lots of other items in this vein that I want to bring up, but I don't wish to bore you and do wish to sleep, so I'll leave it there for now and bid you adieu.

[Chrinthanium]

Very nice, Chrin. Perhaps Walmington can assist Mother (as Britons will probably have to get used to slightly creepy upper-class Walmies calling their country) with the somewhat limited endurance of the CVA-01 by offering so many friendly ports throughout the Atlantic at our small stepping-stone colonies for top-ups en route to wherever. Unsinkable replenishment ships from the Faroes to the Falklands.

Does that list mean that I may keep the Invincible Class light carriers, as back in January-ish when you had Britain and Aus together as the Chrinthani Republic? I realise that you may not have decided as yet, but if you don't need it, I think that the Singaporean Endurance class amphibious warfare vessels may be ideal for mini-WoS. And the Upholder class D/E submarines that Britain gave up on and sold to Canada would be suitable for WoS as well, I think.

A lot of WoS's military would be configured with at least an after-thought to supporting Britain in a major war, possibly with America or the Soviets as worst-case scenarios ((we don't really think you're keen on war with America, but if we both get close with TUGS and Mari they might not give us a choice, some day?)), so the Invincibles would be intended to hunt Yankee submarines ((no, not Project 667As!)) while you fight their surface fleet, the Upholders would be ambush hunters in the Atlantic, and so on.

If you end up using the Type-82, may you never have needed the Type-42? In that case, I imagine it being a collaborative effort to give WoS a kind of little-sister to the Type-82, perhaps built in Walmy yards with British systems, or British yards with Walmy systems, whatever makes more sense.

I can see WoS being a junior partner on the Typhoon. It's probably a big controversy here due to how much it ends up costing us and how few we can afford. We'll not be able to buy enough to base squadrons in every significant colony, and won't always have the means to move them round on short notice.

There are lots of other items in this vein that I want to bring up, but I don't wish to bore you and do wish to sleep, so I'll leave it there for now and bid you adieu.

Recent news reports of a tiny drone landing undetected on the somewhat disappointing new British QE-class make me feel slightly better for having not bothered with them. I can deal with 7,000 nm of endurance vs 10,000 nm of endurance providing we don't need half the RN to keep it from sinking in war. I'm certain the British don't mind buying supplies from the Walmingtonian ports throughout the Atlantic. Perhaps our young men also drop by your tea houses and spend some British pounds on nice cups of tea and Dundee Cake with some wonderful Walmingtonian young ladies while in port.

I had forgotten that agreement re: Invincibles and promised one of them to Marimaia. Is that something we can work with? If so, then I'm all for it. Also, since I'm opting for the HMS Ocean (which will become a class instead of a one-off), I don't see why you can't have the Endurance.

I have trouble deciding between Type 82 and Type 42 and Type 45. Partly because when Britain built these things, she was through the process of de-colonizing and the need for big, expensive boats just wasn't on the cards. In AMW, Britain is every bit a global empire and probably wants big body-part-waving type machinery because it can build it and use it. But with the CVA-01, it's probably more natural to take the Type-82 as a nice escort for her. And I can grant you the Type-42. As well as the Upholder-class. I think RL Britain has enough built sub classes that what was never built can be given to you.

As far as the Typhoon, that works for me. We see it as keeping on par with California and others to have a jet like the Typhoon. We probably won't ever fight a war with them, but nice to see we can try to build something that works to counter their advantages.

We don't want war with anyone. We feel war with America is quite avoidable. War with Soviet India is a 50/50 chance. That's why a lot of my thinking is going into bigger, more expensive projects. Though, there were plenty of times in AMW Britain's history where the penny-pinchers probably got into office and poo-pooed some of those projects.

Glad you're getting some sleep. Never feel you're boring me with military talk. Considering the amount of time I've been reading about British history (Read a British HIstory book that covered all of its history, then just finished one on the Norman Conquest, and now I'm just starting "The Plantaganets" by Dan Jones), I am up for the so-called boring conversation. For me, it's more like learning from reading what you and Beeg keep telling me.

[Marimaia]

I had forgotten that agreement re: Invincibles and promised one of them to Marimaia. Is that something we can work with? If so, then I'm all for it. Also, since I'm opting for the HMS Ocean (which will become a class instead of a one-off), I don't see why you can't have the Endurance.

Just to throw my contribution in, the intention would be for that single Invincible-class to be configured along the lines of HMS Illustrious (R06), so she'd be operating as a helicopter/commando carrier as opposed to an aircraft carrier. There are plenty of alternatives available which could stem from the historical sale of to-be-decommissioned British vessels if necessary though. Just as one RL example, the Centaur-class aircraft carrier was operated by the Royal Navy between 1953-1984; in 1986, HMS Hermes (R12) (the last of the Centaur-class) was sold to India, who recommissioned it as INS Viraat and kept it in operation until 6 March 2017.

Ultimately I'm just after a good helicopter/commando carrier for the Marimaian flagship. It could be a modified Invincible, Centaur or even an Ocean if it comes from the Britain/WoS industrial-military complex, but alternatively it could be a Tarawa or possibly an America if it comes from TUGS/Marimaia collaboration (depending on whether TUGS actually makes them, obviously). Potentially it could even be a Buque de Proyección Estratégica/Juan Carlos I or a Mistral, if Zentrus would be okay with Marimaia having developed one of those classes.

Basically it doesn't have to be an Invincible

[Walmington on Sea]

From the side-lines; Marimaia, Chrinthanium; I would say that, to me, the Oceans seem the better option for the former country.

No doubt the British had to lend WoS considerable help in our development and construction of the Invincibles, and they may have done so with the expectation that we would not then tread on their toes when it comes to export sales. Oceans -built by the British to commercial rather than full military standards- seem likely to have been developed by Mother with one eye on saving money in domestic service and another on making it with export sales to less wealthy nations... particularly those friendly states whose limited military capacities Britannia wishes to enhance. Oceans are modern and sophisticated, giving new capacities to a nation like Marimaia, but with some corners cut and frills removed, allowing Britain to operate several without breaking the bank, and a less wealthy nation to operate at least one despite its limited resources.

That is only one view, and if repainting a rusty yet once-majestic ((sorry)) war-time hulk or buying Walmingtonian are options chosen instead, I shan't complain!

Chrin; British sailors in Walmingtonian ports will tend to find a warm welcome, as it were! There is potential for difficulties given the smallness of our population and the profligacy of lower ranks aboard any given warship in port, but certainly any but the highest-born Walmy families would be excited about the prospect of one of their daughters courting a British officer or even -in most cases- junior officer or NCOs etc. The most put-upon working class families would be amenable to a lowly rating joining the family if it gave them a greater connection to the Big Island, so there are always likely to be, erm, 'options' in... friendly ports. ((For mariners of a different inclination, there is a distinction between what may be accepted in public and what may be quietly ignored behind closed doors for the sake of the, ah, special relationship.)) Of course, working against the British ratings is that, actually, their wages are likely to be shit compared with those of the local Walmingtonians, so flashing the cash won't impress this island lass!

Well, there are swings and there are round-a-bouts.

So long, and thanks for all the submarines!

[Chrinthanium]

From the side-lines; Marimaia, Chrinthanium; I would say that, to me, the Oceans seem the better option for the former country.

No doubt the British had to lend WoS considerable help in our development and construction of the Invincibles, and they may have done so with the expectation that we would not then tread on their toes when it comes to export sales. Oceans -built by the British to commercial rather than full military standards- seem likely to have been developed by Mother with one eye on saving money in domestic service and another on making it with export sales to less wealthy nations... particularly those friendly states whose limited military capacities Britannia wishes to enhance. Oceans are modern and sophisticated, giving new capacities to a nation like Marimaia, but with some corners cut and frills removed, allowing Britain to operate several without breaking the bank, and a less wealthy nation to operate at least one despite its limited resources.

That is only one view, and if repainting a rusty yet once-majestic ((sorry)) war-time hulk or buying Walmingtonian are options chosen instead, I shan't complain!

Chrin; British sailors in Walmingtonian ports will tend to find a warm welcome, as it were! There is potential for difficulties given the smallness of our population and the profligacy of lower ranks aboard any given warship in port, but certainly any but the highest-born Walmy families would be excited about the prospect of one of their daughters courting a British officer or even -in most cases- junior officer or NCOs etc. The most put-upon working class families would be amenable to a lowly rating joining the family if it gave them a greater connection to the Big Island, so there are always likely to be, erm, 'options' in... friendly ports. ((For mariners of a different inclination, there is a distinction between what may be accepted in public and what may be quietly ignored behind closed doors for the sake of the, ah, special relationship.)) Of course, working against the British ratings is that, actually, their wages are likely to be shit compared with those of the local Walmingtonians, so flashing the cash won't impress this island lass!

Well, there are swings and there are round-a-bouts.

So long, and thanks for all the submarines!

Well, alternative lifestyles, while not strictly outlawed, aren't really condoned. It's just... do you part for Britain and we can ignore the rest. Still, regardless of which port, I'm sure there's always going to be some form of fraternization between our peoples when they're together. Our naval officers, I'm certain, earn better pay than some may think.. but they're not Walmingtonians. The Home Territories have a GDP per capita of 39,000. SO, they're not broke.

You're welcome for the submarines.

Perhaps in the upcoming weeks I'll do a little thingy in Britain for people to join. No idea what, just yet.

[Marimaia]

From the side-lines; Marimaia, Chrinthanium; I would say that, to me, the Oceans seem the better option for the former country.

No doubt the British had to lend WoS considerable help in our development and construction of the Invincibles, and they may have done so with the expectation that we would not then tread on their toes when it comes to export sales. Oceans -built by the British to commercial rather than full military standards- seem likely to have been developed by Mother with one eye on saving money in domestic service and another on making it with export sales to less wealthy nations... particularly those friendly states whose limited military capacities Britannia wishes to enhance. Oceans are modern and sophisticated, giving new capacities to a nation like Marimaia, but with some corners cut and frills removed, allowing Britain to operate several without breaking the bank, and a less wealthy nation to operate at least one despite its limited resources.

That is only one view, and if repainting a rusty yet once-majestic ((sorry)) war-time hulk or buying Walmingtonian are options chosen instead, I shan't complain!

An Ocean-class would certainly fit the bill as you say, provided that Britain were willing to sell one of course

I've based the Marimaian navy on the Indonesian navy due to the similarities between the two nations (GDP per capita, geography, etc.), although Marimaia enjoys a larger military budget. As a result the bulk of the Marimaian navy consists of fast attack craft/patrol boats which are easily designed and built domestically; the primary mission of the navy is to patrol the waters between the various islands which comprise the Kingdom, and fast attack craft/patrol boats are a reasonably effective (and very cost-effective) way to achieve that. Then I'm looking at sixteen corvettes and eight frigates (again, domestically built if possible). Six diesel-electric submarines too, but they'd probably have to be purchased/built under license.

I would also be looking to acquire two destroyers, so there's a possibility to buy Walmingtonian there if the Type-42 was available. Of course, it's more likely that Marimaia would have been buying from TUGS due to the greater historical ties but I don't know which vessel classes TUGS has a claim on.

[The United Gulf States]

The United Gulf States can offer you many fine patrol vessels and some light amphibious boats, Mari, but nothing more afloat.

Fredonia has chosen to disregard any thought of challenging its international rivals at sea, and seeks only to interdict smuggling operations conducted by the myriad terrorist organisations acting against our Responsible Democracy.

British-designed, Gulf-built Azteca Class patrol vessels? Sierra Class corvettes? We can sort you out, friend. Anything bigger or more heavily armed? We haven't even tried.


(We definitely don't have any semi-submersible drug-running boats at all, certainly, that's for sure! You can take that to the bank, California!)

[Europe - Prussia]

Hello people of AMW:

Recently, I have been writing a short story about the inglorious colonial past of the Valendian empire, and while reviewing my history and the current claims map, I've realized two things: one, the imperial network of trading posts and small colonies (following the Portuguese and Dutch models) is kinda choppy, with the territories too separated to support each other, especially at the start (the connection between Europe and Africa) and at the end; and two, Valendia is kinda lacking, especially if you compare it with the other colonial powers.
I've always been fine with the current size of my claim, both in territory and population. However, to make feasible the colonial past of Valendia, I believe that i must expand my claim, not too ostentatiously of course, but enough to make the network of small colonies and commercial posts, a la Dutch, feasible. That's why, with the permission of all of you, I'd like to expand my claim and add these territories:

1) Western Sahara - 587,666
2) Namibia's Kunene Region - 88,300
3) Japan's Okinawa Prefecture - 1,439,913
4) Japan's Kagoshima Prefecture - 1,639,903

Total: 3,755,782, plus the current population of the empire (129,036,710) = 132,792,492

Western Sahara and Kunene are a dusty pile of sand and rocks respectively, while Okinawa and Kagoshima would represent the end of the network, it would be to the Valendians what Macau was to the Portuguese and the outposts in Japan were to the Dutch. Obviously, if this request is accepted I will lower the GDP accordingly.

[Chrinthanium]

The United Gulf States can offer you many fine patrol vessels and some light amphibious boats, Mari, but nothing more afloat.

Fredonia has chosen to disregard any thought of challenging its international rivals at sea, and seeks only to interdict smuggling operations conducted by the myriad terrorist organisations acting against our Responsible Democracy.

British-designed, Gulf-built Azteca Class patrol vessels? Sierra Class corvettes? We can sort you out, friend. Anything bigger or more heavily armed? We haven't even tried.


(We definitely don't have any semi-submersible drug-running boats at all, certainly, that's for sure! You can take that to the bank, California!)

From the side-lines; Marimaia, Chrinthanium; I would say that, to me, the Oceans seem the better option for the former country.

No doubt the British had to lend WoS considerable help in our development and construction of the Invincibles, and they may have done so with the expectation that we would not then tread on their toes when it comes to export sales. Oceans -built by the British to commercial rather than full military standards- seem likely to have been developed by Mother with one eye on saving money in domestic service and another on making it with export sales to less wealthy nations... particularly those friendly states whose limited military capacities Britannia wishes to enhance. Oceans are modern and sophisticated, giving new capacities to a nation like Marimaia, but with some corners cut and frills removed, allowing Britain to operate several without breaking the bank, and a less wealthy nation to operate at least one despite its limited resources.

That is only one view, and if repainting a rusty yet once-majestic ((sorry)) war-time hulk or buying Walmingtonian are options chosen instead, I shan't complain!

An Ocean-class would certainly fit the bill as you say, provided that Britain were willing to sell one of course

I've based the Marimaian navy on the Indonesian navy due to the similarities between the two nations (GDP per capita, geography, etc.), although Marimaia enjoys a larger military budget. As a result the bulk of the Marimaian navy consists of fast attack craft/patrol boats which are easily designed and built domestically; the primary mission of the navy is to patrol the waters between the various islands which comprise the Kingdom, and fast attack craft/patrol boats are a reasonably effective (and very cost-effective) way to achieve that. Then I'm looking at sixteen corvettes and eight frigates (again, domestically built if possible). Six diesel-electric submarines too, but they'd probably have to be purchased/built under license.

I would also be looking to acquire two destroyers, so there's a possibility to buy Walmingtonian there if the Type-42 was available. Of course, it's more likely that Marimaia would have been buying from TUGS due to the greater historical ties but I don't know which vessel classes TUGS has a claim on.

It is as I have thought: Britain and, by extension, Walmington may be selling TUGS and Marimaia military assets. Or, in Britain's case, potentially protecting them directly. While I am by far not finished deciding on what the British military would look like, I'm roughly sticking with what I have already posted with, potentially, a few alterations as I learn more things. Lots of things to think about, though!

Hello people of AMW:

Recently, I have been writing a short story about the inglorious colonial past of the Valendian empire, and while reviewing my history and the current claims map, I've realized two things: one, the imperial network of trading posts and small colonies (following the Portuguese and Dutch models) is kinda choppy, with the territories too separated to support each other, especially at the start (the connection between Europe and Africa) and at the end; and two, Valendia is kinda lacking, especially if you compare it with the other colonial powers.
I've always been fine with the current size of my claim, both in territory and population. However, to make feasible the colonial past of Valendia, I believe that i must expand my claim, not too ostentatiously of course, but enough to make the network of small colonies and commercial posts, a la Dutch, feasible. That's why, with the permission of all of you, I'd like to expand my claim and add these territories:

1) Western Sahara - 587,666
2) Namibia's Kunene Region - 88,300
3) Japan's Okinawa Prefecture - 1,439,913
4) Japan's Kagoshima Prefecture - 1,639,903

Total: 3,755,782, plus the current population of the empire (129,036,710) = 132,792,492

Western Sahara and Kunene are a dusty pile of sand and rocks respectively, while Okinawa and Kagoshima would represent the end of the network, it would be to the Valendians what Macau was to the Portuguese and the outposts in Japan were to the Dutch. Obviously, if this request is accepted I will lower the GDP accordingly.

Just a quick review of Japan makes me have only the slightest trepidation about you taking Kagoshima, since part of that is on the island of Kyushu, one of Japan's 4 main islands. It isn't the population of it, but the fact that Japan may eventually be claimed and those 4 main islands are probably better left untouched. That's just my opinion, though. Others may not care. Frankly, if you're going for Macau, then take Macau since it's open on the map. Overall, population-wise, I don't think too many people would object to a 4 million person increase.

[Amerique]

Something like Hainan or Taiwan, I feel, could also work for the purpose without making it awkward for a Honshu-based claim. I'd have more trepidation over Japan's islands because they're so integral to each other and might discourage a claim in Honshu lest it feel it has to be boxed-in or restricted historically by the Valendian presence.

[Chrinthanium]

You know, I think I'm going to put forth a change to the territorial holdings of the British Empire. What I want to do first is drop Malawi and what I have in Mozambique, which frees up 38 million people approximately. I'm also going to give up Comoros and Mayotte and the Scattered Islands of the Indian Ocean, which frees up a (actual total) of 39,042,595.

Then, I would want to add the following:

Western Cape Province, South Africa: 6,510,300
Kongo Central province, DR Congo: 4,522,942
Riau Islands Province: 1,973,403
Gaza, Inhambane, Maputo City, and Maputo Provinces of Mozambique: 5,670,521
Socotra: 44,000
Zanzibar: 1,303,569
Mafia Island: 46,850

This regains 18,654,775 back to British population for a total reduction of 20,387,820 bringing the total British imperial population down to 165,720,563. I am not going to reduce GDP since the areas dropped didn't hold the riches of the empire for the most part. That would bring overall British imperial GDP to 23,409.18 (with a total GDP of $3,879,825,654,491)

[Europe - Prussia]

Something like Hainan or Taiwan, I feel, could also work for the purpose without making it awkward for a Honshu-based claim. I'd have more trepidation over Japan's islands because they're so integral to each other and might discourage a claim in Honshu lest it feel it has to be boxed-in or restricted historically by the Valendian presence.

Well, Kagoshima is not even on the Honshu, it's on Kyushu island, and besides it's just. I would understand if I claimed a part of the Honshu or the Shikoku island (the smallest one of the archipelago), but as long the Honshu remains intact a Japan-based claim, with space to expand to the west and what's left of the polynesian islands, shouldn't be a problem.

However, I understand your concerns, so let me explain my reasons of claiming those two prefectures: as I said on IRC, claiming a part of the main islands wasn't my intention, instead my intention was claiming the Ryukyu islands, which have an ideal position and have the ideal size on territory and population; Taiwan would make my population soar to 150 million (which is something I definitively do not want) and Hainan, Hong-Kong and Macau are kinda too close to mainland China for my tastes.

However, the Ryukyu islands are divided between the Okinawa and the Kagoshima prefectures. So, to save me a future headache and a potential one to Chrin, I decided to claim both because it will be much more easier to calculate demographics and all of that stuff.

Because really, somehow dividing territories always end horribly wrong.