AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Marimaia]

I was wondering what was to happen with Amerland and Walmingtonian Denmark. Now I know. Here I thought my idea would get the IRC a-buzzing, but everyone is fawning over a drawn-down, British-semi-reliant Walmington. Curses, Walmington!

Eh, I know Mari had been getting ideas about Borneo, so I will not worry about that part. Hong Kong and Singapore, on the other hand, bring an interesting thought to mind.... combined with Dubai and London, AMW Britain would be controlling a lot of financial centers in that setting. I will assume if we meddled in India, we may have meddled in Drapol (to our own certain failure). I like this, so I want to jump on adding Hong Kong and Singapore to Britain. Singapore has a population of 5,781,728 and Hong Kong SAR has a population of 7,167,403 making an additional 12,949,131 to a grand total of 192,565,431. That's all for the British Empire in AMW. The rest must rest on future claimants who want a British influence but have since gone their own way. Historically, Chrinthania breaks away from the British at some much earlier point than RL and Britain gets into India, Singapore, and Hong Kong to compensate. Possible eventually thinking it could make a go in Drapol seriously underestimating their ability to kill people. I like where this is going, honestly.

It's making me think harder about what Fascist Britain is considering its position now. Currently an imperial power with very good mineral and petrochemical wealth and a lot of international centers of trade/finance. I may have to rework some of the internal ideas a bit without abandoning Fascism overall. It'll probably be, as I have stated, more Roman Imperial-type fascism as stated. Our culture and civilization are superior and to be a British citizen is the highest honor anyone could achieve.

I have absolutely been getting ideas about Borneo, it's true. Especially the northern parts after reading about the White Rajahs of Sarawak and the Sarawak Rangers (RL Brit colonial history frequently throws up some rather unique situations). If no-one's got any issue with me slotting Sarawak into Marimaia then I would like to do so; it would only add 2,636,000 to Marimaia's population (bringing it to 107,501,198) and I'd leave the GDP per capita where it is at $11,600 (PPP). I think that would bring me to the furthest realistic extent of Marimaian territory considering how long they've been in existence; in order to have all of Borneo they'd probably have to have been at war for most of their existence and that doesn't seem particularly conducive to building a stable kingdom. If we wound up going with the idea that it was left behind by Walmington or possibly Britain after some Asian setbacks, then it could be as simple as the Margraves either bought it from the former colonial owner or there was a negotiated handover with the former owner receiving preferential trade status and some other juicy enticements, as well as the satisfaction that Sarawak remained under an English-speaking monarch. If it's a case of forgetting the previous history then the Raj of Sarawak could have allied with the Margraves early on in Marimaian history and then slowly been absorbed as conquering territory of that size wouldn't be easy for a relatively new nation.

My developing idea is that while the Margraves certainly do their best to overwrite indigenous culture with their own (with the exception of the collaborationist Takamakua tribe in the Pacific islands), they also rather like adding exotic sounding indigenous titles into the litany of the monarch's titles precisely because of how they sound. To this end, if Sarawak is added then Lysander would be officially known as: Lysander I of the House of Margrave, King of Marimaia, Duke of Margravia and Sabah, Rajah of Sarawak, Ritikawekani (Chief of All Chiefs) of the Takamakua, and Protector of the Realm. A very long-winded and very Margravian official litany of titles.

Adding Sarawak would increase Marimaian oil and gas potential but certainly wouldn't make them oil-and-gas-independent so there would still be significant need for trade with the British. It would, however, make Marimaia more of a potential Pacific rival for Amerique and Chrinthania while placing Marimaian territory that bit closer to Soviet India and Dra-pol, thus further justifying the 'Twin Red Threat' scare.

With Singapore and Hong Kong under British rule it'll be easier for the Margraves to have a working relationship with the Brits rather than if the closest outpost was in the Middle East; if I might make a suggestion Chrin, what about Singapore and/or Hong Kong as another SER? That way the British get to enjoy all the trade links with Marimaia while keeping the (potentially in British eyes) pretentious social-climbing Margraves at arms length from London. Not only that but Singapore as an SER would mean that the British are operating a 'specifically capitalist' outpost right next to Dra-pol, maybe a way of brazenly demonstrating their contempt for Hotan as well as allowing them to better trade in Asia.

[Chrinthanium]

Firstly, regarding Walmington’s point about being twice as rich… considering the population size of Britain, unless you want this to have the biggest GDP in all of AMW, I think it’s good as it is. You may have a higher standard of living overall, but our military budget alone would be anywhere from 1/10-1/2 your GDP. All things considered, the GDP is roughly a series of individual GDPs for various colonies added together. The overall GDP of Britain is then divided by the entire Imperial population (including the Home Territory), so that’s how I arrived at that number. Much like I did with Chrinthania, only on a much larger scale. Of course, an addition of Singapore and Hong Kong would not change the GDP per capita much and bring overall GDP to about 3.9 trillion, which is still below Amerique or Valendia (slightly) but well below Soviet India. With colonists outnumbering white British almost 2-1, you expect a lower overall GDP. I’ve pegged the GDP per capita of the home territory around 39,000.

More on this… the exact GDP will be 20,847.13 per capita giving the British Empire a total GDP of 3,993,172,641,600. The Home Territories come in with a GDP per capita of 39,000 with the GDP per capita of HK and Singapore at 32,500, UAE at 24,500, Oman at 11,000, and the African colonies as a whole at 8,300 per capita. That’s actually higher than IRL, but I assure you much of that wealth does not get spread evenly across the masses. It’s in the hands of a small group of people in Africa.

As to your “marching behind” idea, I can kind of see this British-Walmingtonian thing going like, “Right’o, chaps. Now that we’ve taken the beaches, you Walmies hold it for us while we go around the corner and have a look.”

As far as place names you’re retaining (I know you’re keeping England, Scotland, and Wales) I kind of was wondering which ones you were keeping before I get too deep into creating internal things. I want to make sure I don’t create a character coming from a place that doesn’t exist in Britain but, in fact, does exist in Walmington.

Secondly, to Marimaia points about, er, Marimaia. Your expansion, in my opinion, is fine and I have no objections to it whatsoever. Britain would be happy to trade with Marimaia and the Margraves via Singapore and Hong Kong. As far as British involvement in Borneo, I’m game to have made a go of it only to have faced resistance that became enough for us to decide to get out of it by selling the whole mess to the Margraves for some trade deals and cash.

As to the SERs and some internal things about which I’ve already written, I was talking over things late last night in the IRC with Amerique and Beddgelert and this slightly expanded empire. What’s going to happen is a more British Roman Empire than a British Fascist Empire. It’ll retain its right-wing stance on many issues but updated for the 21st century. Here’s how it’ll be, in vague terms.

Women will have suffrage. Women will be able to work. Gender roles, however, will be very much followed with women being able to teach, be nurses, secretaries, maids/housekeepers, and all that very 1950s stuff while men will be expected to be laborers, soldiers, politicians, businessmen, and the like. Women may also serve in the armed services, but will not be allowed to have forward combat roles. Most likely, they’ll be given jobs similar to that which they get in the civilian world. All this is predicated on the fact that a woman’s greatest duty to the State is to give birth to more citizens and to raise the children.

Speaking of children and birth… contraception won’t be illegal, but the CofB will most likely frown upon them being used. Those are for sailors and homos, silly!

Speaking of homos… Homosexuality has now become a thing that isn’t exactly tolerated, but if you’re the right kind of gay man (read: given to exemplifying the virtues of the masculine warrior alpha male. Think Ernst Rohm with a British accent and much less Nazism) we won’t have a heart attack. You wouldn’t catch British gay men parading down Piccadilly waving rainbow flags or wearing women’s dresses. Not in the British Empire. That’s just not cricket. Nor would they be allowed to marry or adopt kids or hold jobs where such jobs would deal primarily with children (hey, we’re still adhering to Right-winger fallacies). As long as they’re able to pick up a gun and defend against our threats (perceived or otherwise) and aren’t acting like Jack from Will and Grace, we’re probably not going to say anything within their earshot about fags or girly men.

Immigration would be highly regulated and there would be countries from which we simply wouldn’t accept anyone. If you’re the right kind of person, we’ll let you in (probably a large percentage of which means white). I’m certain there’s a testing phase for immigration and the wrong answers mean no entry. British subjects who do not reside within the Home Territories themselves would find it easier to enter, but, again, there’s probably not many openings for a Zimbabwean in the Home Territories.

As far as SERs and corporatism, you’ll see this be some amalgamation of fascist and capitalism in which corporatism has some influence (even FDR’s New Deal had corporatist ideas within it) but the capitalists probably have more power than they would in a truly fascist state. SERs would not be needed overall, but I’m certain that Singapore and Hong Kong being British Imperial City-Colonies would give them a tad more leeway than what happens directly under the Government’s nose in London. With Britain essentially openly-trading with Walmington and probably TUGS and Gandvik and now Marimaia, we can’t be a truly fascist society. At least we can’t achieve full autarky. (Fun, off-topic fact: MS Word tries to correct Gandvik to Gandhi)

More to this, probably highly-important national industries and corporations would be nationalized. In an attempt to avert strikes and keep dirty unions from hurting the economy, there will be some corporations for those commercial/industrial sectors that have a large footing. Probably there’s corporations for carpenters and mechanics and whatnot, but probably not such for cobblers and haberdashers.

Militarily speaking, the British Empire in the form I have above described would be able to fund a military budget somewhere between 68-300 billion dollars ICly (depending on how high the tax-to-GDP ratio is and whether or not we’re actually responsible for defending TUGS, Marimaia, Walmington as well as our own empire…. Or we just sell them stuff). If I keep the tax-to-GDP ratio around 35%, I can get a budget of 1.375 trillion with roughly anywhere from 68 billion if I keep to RL UK’s 5% if total budget allocated for defense or 5% of GDP which works out to 196 billion. 3% of GDP on defense would be 118 billion. If Britain has to be roughly a right-wing USA looking after her allies, then the defense budget could very well break 200 billion. All dependent on how the others in the so-called Rightist bloc want/require British-assisted/led defense.

Most of this harder right turn politically and socially comes in response to the loss of India, which was probably blamed on a very “progressive” leadership at the time (which wouldn’t know how to handle money and wars like the conservatives). That would strike a psychological blow to the British who thought, at the time, no one was stupid enough to try such a thing against them. Turns out, the British were stupid for thinking it couldn’t happen to them. If Britain should have a hand in any outside influence in Drapol before getting massacred by Hotan’s forces, that may have well helped spur on the current belief that the British were being led down the wrong path and had to realign themselves and build up the military.

I think AMW is aware of my aversion to RPing war, thus most can rest assured there’s no intent on me invading anyone while the rest already know this. We’re simply not going to start a war. However, if the Bolshevik Indians or the Liberal Americans with their Californian hippie roommates and Chrinthani lackeys decide to get up to no good, we’ll give them the what for and crush them like the insects they are.

That being said, if it ever did come down to the Communists Vs the World, Britain would have no choice but to loosely align itself with powers it would otherwise keep at arm’s length. This doesn’t mean we consider America or California or Chrinthania as potential allies. We would just want to make sure we took out enemy number one, which is India. Then, we’ll deal with the rest later.

As far as historical canon already existing in my fellow AMWer’s nations, you can keep that. You have carte blanche to write British history as it pertains to your nation. Let me know when you need names, ranks, etc… for your work. No need to disrupt that which has already been written. I just need to make sure I have it all understood so I can incorporate that into British history. What goes on within your borders is your history and I can, with few exceptions, live with whatever you wish.

Anyway… thoughts, ideas… all welcomed. ​

[Walmington on Sea]

Walmington's military budget is likely to be around $38.5 billion, with British assistance included. I'm unsure whether to go with just under 1% of the population in active service, per the late days of British national service, or just over 2% per the current IDF. Funding per head will either be pretty good or phenomenal, depending which way I go! I may even do away with the army and just have the Home Guard and Legion of Frontiersmen tasked with delaying and harrying invaders until the Royal Marines can arrive to give them a lesson in what a sixty-gajillion dollar soldier can do. Also Company militias in Waynesia and the West Indies.

I admit to feeling conflicted on our place names et cetera, Chrin. Who gets London, Manchester, and so on? Either of us could just make-up British sounding towns, of course. Then again, I suppose that you may have to rename places in Ireland, Wales, and Scotland in any case. Are you going single-language, Anglophone?

I'd be happy for you to take the lead role in attempting to colonise Dra-pol, with WoS taking a port concession or two, and then sending a battalion of line infantry to support you when the Suloists kick-off, for all the good it does. "Things are a bit sticky..."


Oh, to make things a little easier, in Canada I think that I should take Newfoundland and Labrador whole, along with the Maritimes as per Amerique's suggestion, but from Quebec I'd take only the islands of Anticosti and the Magdalens, for some 13,000 people. Amerique can take-over mainland Quebec (and perhaps Ontario, to make the map look better and make Amerique the lead military power of the prospective liberal bloc?) if he wishes.

[Chrinthanium]

Regarding Drapol, I’m fine with that. I assume the sticky situation is the British and Walmingtonians being stuck with Hotan’s bayonets. Sounds about the kind of sticky situation we’d find ourselves in.

Again, as I have stated, whatever you need from Britain is fine with me. Write your history the way you want it and I’ll go along with it.

As far as a 60-gajillion dollar soldier, I am wondering what to do with the military. If this Britain be rightist and not on good terms with America, I may have to raid the planned-but-never-actually-built British military equipment to make up for the missing pieces. The minimum British military budget would be around 68 billion with a maximum upwards of 250-300 billion. Again, all this depends on how the British Armed Services are put together and their use. I assume our military budget is high because we’re all over the place and we need to make sure opportunistic Indians don’t try to take Diego Garcia or Hotan try to take Singapore.

As it pertains to you physical claim, I’m all for an easier map, but don’t let that be a factor in your decision. I can roughly approximate enough to make it look relatively neat. I know we in IRC talked about you taking Newfoundland and Labrador, so this works for me.

As to our language, I assume that your travels westward to the Atlantic Ocean may have put you crossing through the British Isles at some point, so no reason my Britain can’t speak English only. Maybe some Gaelic up where your Scotland is close to the RL Scottish mainland. I have been basing the British in Britain off of a more Scandinavian influence earlier on with perhaps a few Anglo-Saxons sticking around as you push through because there’s always a few stragglers who decide to go no further. I’m certain we can work out how English spreads across the island in a fairly neat way over time.

I’ve rewritten this section about 50 times and I keep having trouble deciding what to do regarding the place names. I want to take them; I want you to have them at the same time. No idea what to do. That could probably be mostly because the place names aren’t that important. London by any other name would still be London. If you want the place names, use the place names. I don’t believe that they’re required for me to be a Britain-alike.

Perhaps the only requests I’ve had for this idea is the use of the terms “Britain, British, Britannia, Britannic” as well as using God Save The King/Queen.

I'm also thinking of this being a Britain-alike more than a duplicate. It'll have a reformation and an abdication and even some monarchs analogous to the real version of Britain. No idea how British an American can play Britain overall. In particular a Britain roughly devoid of Celts, Picts, Gaels, Angles, and Saxons.

[Walmington on Sea]

Walmington would enthusiastically co-operate with Britain on defence technology projects, for what it's worth. We're smaller and can't necessarily sustain some modern hardware schemes on our own, because if we develop a new jet fighter at a cost of X-billion dollars, but then we only buy twenty of them, it's uneconomical. If we send our extremely well-educated aerospace engineers to collaborate with British Aerospace and essentially the same aircraft is bought by both of our air forces and exported to Marimaia and the Gulf, it's not only affordable but very profitable.

I wonder if you'd be okay with most IRL British military equipment being Chrin-British lead, and some of the 'what if?' projects being crackpot Walmingtonian projects brought to fruition by our collaboration? Britain: "This is the Buccaneer; it's very good at flying low-level attacks over land or sea.", Wos: "What if we gave it afterburners, phased-array radar, and a digital nav/attack system? I... can 'move some money around' [wink]"

As to Englishness and whatnot, I was thinking that perhaps we have a common ancestor in northern Valendia? There's a great migration out of Northern Europe, with Angles and Jutes spreading out, some to Britain, others to the Danish isles and East Prussia, some of them to continue on down on to the Shield. For a time they perhaps stay in contact, trading with one another, sharing a common language and religion, but over the centuries they drift apart. We're all Angles, but what we later call ourselves may differ. And we all push Celts out of the lands they'd previously dominated, or else absorb them into our own populations.

Walmington will certainly say, "God save the King!" but if you want the song that's fine. Of course, you're well positioned to use the much better anthem, "Rule Britannia", too! Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory, there are plenty of options for anthems, between us.

On your military, I'd suggest spending at least 2.5% of GDP, and enlisting at least 0.9% of the population, for reasonably British, slightly Fascist standards. It'd mean fairly light conscription... not particularly long tours for conscripts, "no blacks, no Asians, no Irish, no women" (they can volunteer for limited rolls), easy exemptions for study (so rich kids going to Oxbridge), and so on.

[Chrinthanium]

Walmington would enthusiastically co-operate with Britain on defence technology projects, for what it's worth. We're smaller and can't necessarily sustain some modern hardware schemes on our own, because if we develop a new jet fighter at a cost of X-billion dollars, but then we only buy twenty of them, it's uneconomical. If we send our extremely well-educated aerospace engineers to collaborate with British Aerospace and essentially the same aircraft is bought by both of our air forces and exported to Marimaia and the Gulf, it's not only affordable but very profitable.

I wonder if you'd be okay with most IRL British military equipment being Chrin-British lead, and some of the 'what if?' projects being crackpot Walmingtonian projects brought to fruition by our collaboration? Britain: "This is the Buccaneer; it's very good at flying low-level attacks over land or sea.", Wos: "What if we gave it afterburners, phased-array radar, and a digital nav/attack system? I... can 'move some money around' [wink]"

As to Englishness and whatnot, I was thinking that perhaps we have a common ancestor in northern Valendia? There's a great migration out of Northern Europe, with Angles and Jutes spreading out, some to Britain, others to the Danish isles and East Prussia, some of them to continue on down on to the Shield. For a time they perhaps stay in contact, trading with one another, sharing a common language and religion, but over the centuries they drift apart. We're all Angles, but what we later call ourselves may differ. And we all push Celts out of the lands they'd previously dominated, or else absorb them into our own populations.

Walmington will certainly say, "God save the King!" but if you want the song that's fine. Of course, you're well positioned to use the much better anthem, "Rule Britannia", too! Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory, there are plenty of options for anthems, between us.

On your military, I'd suggest spending at least 2.5% of GDP, and enlisting at least 0.9% of the population, for reasonably British, slightly Fascist standards. It'd mean fairly light conscription... not particularly long tours for conscripts, "no blacks, no Asians, no Irish, no women" (they can volunteer for limited rolls), easy exemptions for study (so rich kids going to Oxbridge), and so on.

Even as an American, I get goose pimples when I hear "Rule Britannia." It's such a great composition and it will very much be part of the British culture. Jerusalem probably works better for you since it does specifically ask if Jesus walked upon England's hills. Anything expressly mentioning England, Scotland, or Wales kind of doesn't work for me I just don't see too many British citizens trying to sing the verses of Rule Britannia. They'd all be waiting for the chorus much like at the last night of the Proms (If you ask me, Sarah Connolly did the best job of that one when she dressed in the style of Nelson to sing it and sang it with a lot of 18th century inflection). Of course, I also really like Land of Hope and Glory. Seems to be quite the crowdpleaser. Also seems to be some push to make that the national anthem of England itself. Those are the two pieces vying for the anthem in my head... and I really have trouble making the decision between them. There's some thought to keep both... God Save The King as the Royal Anthem and Land of Hope and Glory for the National Anthem itself.

A common ancestor works well for me. I am not opposed to working from scratch, but it does make the job a bit easier to know there were groups of Celts, Angles, and Saxons kind of meandering about the place after the Romans packed it in. Having them staying in contact may explain the extraordinary closeness of the Anglo-British working relationship. And the exile of the Celts may not need be forced upon them. With Beddgelert marching a horde of them into India in the 3rd Century, probably a bit of them following suit with the rest being absorbed later on.

I am just now getting ready to read a book by Marc Morris about the Norman Conquest. Amazingly enough, American education doesn't really focus a great deal on that bit. Perhaps reading that will help with some ideas.

And I'm all for Walmington helping to design British military kit. Between us we should be able to work out the missing bits. I am very crap at creating a military, so don't expect me to have hard-and-fast information any time soon. I was dabbling about the numbers for Britain's military in between calls at work, though. 1% of British population as a whole is roughly 2 million with probably 1.2 million active and 800,000 reservists of which the lion's share of conscripts will probably go. I'm also probably going to raid the CVA-01 instead of this not-quite-up-to-snuff Queen Elizabeth-class project.

I have decided not to desire the Union Jack, though. I'll work on something else for us.

2.5% of British GDP is just shy of 100 billion. I do have to keep certain far-flung territories safe from Indian invasion as well as have the ability to whack them into shape when they try it. I may up the military budget a bit more than that. Really depends on how it winds up being created and organized. The British Government budget would be around 1.4 trillion, so there's money to spend.

Of course I'm wondering if maybe this "Fascist" Britain is really more a harder-right-than-the-Tories version instead. Either way, Beddgelert will want to kill as many of the British as possible. And, again, Fascism isn't a hard-and-fast set of rules. It's also a logical leap from the seemingly fairly rightist position Britain is attaining in these discussions to outright-and-open Fascism. I do have to be careful of not moderating it too much lest it become stupid to have both Chrinthania and Britain because they are too similar.

[Chrinthanium]

Well, forgive the double post... but, I've found a site called Global Security that has a lot of good information. I can probably use this information they offer to construct the beginnings of a military organization for the British Empire. It's probably going to be a while before I have hard information, but I assume I will review what I can find there and learn the basic idea of structuring a military. Should be a lot of fun. I am aiming for a military budget between 150-250 billion depending. I know I've spoken with Marimaia and we're leasing at least one base in their territory for the Royal British Navy. I shall have to do some research on Mozambique to see where an actual naval base can be constructed based on the geographical layout of that coastline and the ability to not get ships stuck on a sandbar and that kind of thing. I do expect Diego Garcia to be a nice forward naval operations base for us. More research needed.

For those who may not have noticed, we have a new application on the application thread. I finally read the entire application. I must say, if you've got the time to read it all, it's a pretty fun read.

[Marimaia]

Well, forgive the double post... but, I've found a site called Global Security that has a lot of good information. I can probably use this information they offer to construct the beginnings of a military organization for the British Empire. It's probably going to be a while before I have hard information, but I assume I will review what I can find there and learn the basic idea of structuring a military. Should be a lot of fun. I am aiming for a military budget between 150-250 billion depending. I know I've spoken with Marimaia and we're leasing at least one base in their territory for the Royal British Navy. I shall have to do some research on Mozambique to see where an actual naval base can be constructed based on the geographical layout of that coastline and the ability to not get ships stuck on a sandbar and that kind of thing. I do expect Diego Garcia to be a nice forward naval operations base for us. More research needed.

For those who may not have noticed, we have a new application on the application thread. I finally read the entire application. I must say, if you've got the time to read it all, it's a pretty fun read.

Catembe Naval Base in RL Mozambique, the Portuguese founded it in about 1507 and there's still a facility in use there Unfortunately there don't seem to be many pictures of the place.

[Chrinthanium]

Well, forgive the double post... but, I've found a site called Global Security that has a lot of good information. I can probably use this information they offer to construct the beginnings of a military organization for the British Empire. It's probably going to be a while before I have hard information, but I assume I will review what I can find there and learn the basic idea of structuring a military. Should be a lot of fun. I am aiming for a military budget between 150-250 billion depending. I know I've spoken with Marimaia and we're leasing at least one base in their territory for the Royal British Navy. I shall have to do some research on Mozambique to see where an actual naval base can be constructed based on the geographical layout of that coastline and the ability to not get ships stuck on a sandbar and that kind of thing. I do expect Diego Garcia to be a nice forward naval operations base for us. More research needed.

For those who may not have noticed, we have a new application on the application thread. I finally read the entire application. I must say, if you've got the time to read it all, it's a pretty fun read.

Catembe Naval Base in RL Mozambique, the Portuguese founded it in about 1507 and there's still a facility in use there Unfortunately there don't seem to be many pictures of the place.

Score! *High Fives*

EDIT: Just an FYI, I perhaps didn't make this clear because I sometimes forget how the UK works... I want to make the Isle of Man, Jersey, and Guernsey as part of Britain. Since they're Crown dependencies, they may not always be regarded as part of the official United Kingdom.

[Chrinthanium]

The Great British Renaming Project: Edition 1

I have finally sat down and figured out what I wanted to call the various component parts of the British Empire. Most names are not surprising. Former British African territories retained their names. Other places I either used their RL names or came up with something generically British enough. I have also renamed the English Channel and the Dover Strait.

As for how these all interact with the government in “London” it boils down to devolution, something familiar to anyone who knows how Britain works. Each dominion has its own devolved powers, but the Royal Government can override those laws as it sees fit (plot twist!). Each dominion is officially styled as “HM Dominion of (Dominion Name).” The United Kingdom of RL is, in AMW, divided up into principalities, each retaining their old pre-Norman kingdom names. None of them big enough to colonize around the globe, but united under a singular British banner, able to eventually rule the waves. I'll probably have the Norms come invading and reunite the Roman province of Britannia as the Kingdom of Britain, then adding Cambria, Caledonia, Pictland, and eventually Ulster/Northern Ireland into the mix.

Collectively, it is common to refer to all British African dominions as British Africa, all Middle Eastern dominions as British Arabia, and all Asian dominions as British East Asia. Great Britain retains its RL meaning (the big British Isle while excluding N. Ireland).

Each nation and dominion may sent a national team to an international sporting competition. This is particularly relevant to the Empire Games, which are akin to the Commonwealth Games.

I decided on names for two important waterways, but none of the rivers or lakes.

I have also renamed some of the cities. Some outside the Home Territories will retain their names. Cities that were once in British colonies that had British names prior to their independence retained the British name from RL. Others received either a new name or a translation from their Portuguese name.

I’ll be working on Home Territory cities over the next few days. Found some handy-dandy tools online to help name things with some respect to their etymologies. That’ll be in The Great British Renaming Project: Episode 2 Friendship is Tragic!

Conventional Long Form: Empire of Great Britain
Conventional Short Form: British Empire, Britain, Great Britain

Home Territories

Following advice on this one, using the Heptarchy to delineate the partitions in RL England, going with all their original names, then dividing Scotland up into lowlands (Caledonia) and highlands (Pictland). Ulster is the temporary name for N. Ireland. Here, take a look:



Dominions:

British East Africa (Mozambique)
Nyasaland (Malawi)
Northern Rhodesia (Katanga and Zambia)
Southern Rhodesia (Zimbabwe)
British West Africa (Angola)
Hong Kong
Singapore
Trucial States (UAE)
Oman

Crown Dependencies:

Isle of Man
Jersey
Guernsey

British Overseas Territories:

British Indian Ocean Territory

Waterways

British Channel (English Channel)
Chalk Strait (Dover Strait)

Cities outside of the Home Territories

Saint Paul (Luanda, Angola)
Charlotte (Maputo, Mozambique)
Charleston (Lilongwe, Malawi)
Georgetown (Zomba, Malawi)
Elizabethville (Lubumbashi, D.R. Congo)
Salisbury (Harare, Zimbabwe)
Livingston (Lusaka, Zambia)
Dubai
Muscat (Oman)
Hong Kong
Singapore

Media

British Broadcasting Service (BBC)

[The United Gulf States]

Fellow awful countries! Walmies, Maris, Brits at least!

I'm finally doing some work on my factbook, and was wondering what if any level of military-industrial co-operation may exist between us. I lay claim to the likes of the F-4 Phantom, F-16 Falcon, A-4 Skyhawk, Textron AirLand Scorpion, Huey, Kiowa, Cobra, Stingray light tank, and various small-arms and light warships. I recognise that Britain is the biggest power amongst the right-wing Anglophone states, and perhaps the only one with a conventional carrier force, and I wondered whether you, Chrin, might get involved in upgrade programmes for Gulf-deisgned aircraft, such as the Phantom for a carrier-born strike aircraft. Britain put better engines in them IRL, maybe we could do more in AMW?

If you want to be less ambitious, the Skyhawk has numerous Argentine and Singaporean upgrades that could be applied in AMW. Maybe that'd work for the lesser powers like WoS?

Is it worth having a diplomatic thread to deal with this? Should we do it in Mari's thread? Start a treaty organisation? I'm up with having my diplomatic mission suggest that, based in Mari perhaps.

[Chrinthanium]

Fellow awful countries! Walmies, Maris, Brits at least!

I'm finally doing some work on my factbook, and was wondering what if any level of military-industrial co-operation may exist between us. I lay claim to the likes of the F-4 Phantom, F-16 Falcon, A-4 Skyhawk, Textron AirLand Scorpion, Huey, Kiowa, Cobra, Stingray light tank, and various small-arms and light warships. I recognise that Britain is the biggest power amongst the right-wing Anglophone states, and perhaps the only one with a conventional carrier force, and I wondered whether you, Chrin, might get involved in upgrade programmes for Gulf-deisgned aircraft, such as the Phantom for a carrier-born strike aircraft. Britain put better engines in them IRL, maybe we could do more in AMW?

If you want to be less ambitious, the Skyhawk has numerous Argentine and Singaporean upgrades that could be applied in AMW. Maybe that'd work for the lesser powers like WoS?

Is it worth having a diplomatic thread to deal with this? Should we do it in Mari's thread? Start a treaty organisation? I'm up with having my diplomatic mission suggest that, based in Mari perhaps.

Hrm... that's something to think about, TUGS. Also, welcome to the discussion!

I am certain that Britain, in her bit to retain amiable relations with her allies, probably has several different types of aircraft each being built with the assistance of others or, at the very least, improved over time through assistance from others. I know that I was thinking about using the Buccaneer as a carrier fighter (obviously, there would need to be modernization and all that). Of course, we may have other TUGS-Mari-Brit combo-built aircraft that can also do that job. Perhaps we use both. I haven't given much thought outside of the Buccaneer as a carrier-born strike aircraft. As I often state, I am not a military person, so I am rather at a disadvantage in this arena. I'm certain between all 4 of us we'll get it all worked out over time.

A rather unimportant piece of information for Walmington.... I think, owing to what seems to be our close relationship (Britain and Walmington, that is), you should have the RL American Ambassador's residence for your ambassador and, unless you've an opinion, the newly-built American embassy there.

[Marimaia]

Fellow awful countries! Walmies, Maris, Brits at least!

I'm finally doing some work on my factbook, and was wondering what if any level of military-industrial co-operation may exist between us. I lay claim to the likes of the F-4 Phantom, F-16 Falcon, A-4 Skyhawk, Textron AirLand Scorpion, Huey, Kiowa, Cobra, Stingray light tank, and various small-arms and light warships. I recognise that Britain is the biggest power amongst the right-wing Anglophone states, and perhaps the only one with a conventional carrier force, and I wondered whether you, Chrin, might get involved in upgrade programmes for Gulf-deisgned aircraft, such as the Phantom for a carrier-born strike aircraft. Britain put better engines in them IRL, maybe we could do more in AMW?

If you want to be less ambitious, the Skyhawk has numerous Argentine and Singaporean upgrades that could be applied in AMW. Maybe that'd work for the lesser powers like WoS?

Is it worth having a diplomatic thread to deal with this? Should we do it in Mari's thread? Start a treaty organisation? I'm up with having my diplomatic mission suggest that, based in Mari perhaps.

Firstly, let's have hugs for TUGS
Secondly....I think I'm going to need to see a full list of your products so I can draw up a hardware list for my military

I would say that the extent of any joint initiatives and whatnot will depend on whether good relations between the four of us are a more recent happening or more of a historical fact. If we've recently aligned ourselves closer to each other then we'll have less in place than if we've been on good terms for one or more decades. I know that you and I have talked a bit in the past about the Federacy and Marimaia being close because of shared heritage and the historical slave trade so it's highly likely that there's been some joint development between the two of us over the decades. Depending on how recently Britain went hardcore with WoS accepting it, we could be in a situation where it's two rightist alliances merging and trying to feel each other out; Britain and WoS having engaged in joint development, so now we've got Britain/WoS and TUGS/Marimaia casting an eye over each other's hardware and discussing possible improvements.

[Chrinthanium]

Fellow awful countries! Walmies, Maris, Brits at least!

I'm finally doing some work on my factbook, and was wondering what if any level of military-industrial co-operation may exist between us. I lay claim to the likes of the F-4 Phantom, F-16 Falcon, A-4 Skyhawk, Textron AirLand Scorpion, Huey, Kiowa, Cobra, Stingray light tank, and various small-arms and light warships. I recognise that Britain is the biggest power amongst the right-wing Anglophone states, and perhaps the only one with a conventional carrier force, and I wondered whether you, Chrin, might get involved in upgrade programmes for Gulf-deisgned aircraft, such as the Phantom for a carrier-born strike aircraft. Britain put better engines in them IRL, maybe we could do more in AMW?

If you want to be less ambitious, the Skyhawk has numerous Argentine and Singaporean upgrades that could be applied in AMW. Maybe that'd work for the lesser powers like WoS?

Is it worth having a diplomatic thread to deal with this? Should we do it in Mari's thread? Start a treaty organisation? I'm up with having my diplomatic mission suggest that, based in Mari perhaps.

Firstly, let's have hugs for TUGS
Secondly....I think I'm going to need to see a full list of your products so I can draw up a hardware list for my military

I would say that the extent of any joint initiatives and whatnot will depend on whether good relations between the four of us are a more recent happening or more of a historical fact. If we've recently aligned ourselves closer to each other then we'll have less in place than if we've been on good terms for one or more decades. I know that you and I have talked a bit in the past about the Federacy and Marimaia being close because of shared heritage and the historical slave trade so it's highly likely that there's been some joint development between the two of us over the decades. Depending on how recently Britain went hardcore with WoS accepting it, we could be in a situation where it's two rightist alliances merging and trying to feel each other out; Britain and WoS having engaged in joint development, so now we've got Britain/WoS and TUGS/Marimaia casting an eye over each other's hardware and discussing possible improvements.

I have been thinking about what sends Britain hard right. Probably the rise of Communism in India and the loss of that territory. Sends shockwaves through Britain and the harder right factions get into power. Since BG puts that somewhere in the 1980s, it was back then.

[Marimaia]

I have been thinking about what sends Britain hard right. Probably the rise of Communism in India and the loss of that territory. Sends shockwaves through Britain and the harder right factions get into power. Since BG puts that somewhere in the 1980s, it was back then.

Plenty of time for the four rightist states to get some joint development going then, awesome

[Chrinthanium]

I have been thinking about what sends Britain hard right. Probably the rise of Communism in India and the loss of that territory. Sends shockwaves through Britain and the harder right factions get into power. Since BG puts that somewhere in the 1980s, it was back then.

Plenty of time for the four rightist states to get some joint development going then, awesome

Don't get too excited over the exact time frame. I'm still waiting for Beddgelert to confirm which decade exactly. The year itself isn't important to me.

[Walmington on Sea]

Britain used to operate Buccaneers as carrier strike aircraft, and Phantoms re-engined by Rolls Royce as fleet air defence fighters.
There was a proposal to build a Super Buccaneer that would have been supersonic and, if built today, would probably have digital avionics and new materials.

The Phantom has been heavily upgraded in Turkish service, and lots of other proposals existed, too (I looked into it a little bit when WoS had territory in the US). Israel developed a version that was scuppered partly because it was seen as a threat to F/A-18 sales, so that potentially gives Britain something arguably competitive with one of Amerique's main naval fighters.

Broadly, Chrin, would you be all right with WoS claiming a lot of Britain's, “What if...?” projects and leaving the actually-adopted things to you (though we'll buy or licence-produce some of those). EM-2 rifle, M-777 Portee, LIMAWS, VFM-5 light tank, et cetera.
Mostly cut-price proposals and light armour and artillery with a mind to portability around my disparate empire, only requiring superiority over less well equipped forces or the ability to play a supporting role to British operations.

I see WoS probably using a lot of British sub-contractors on our domestic military technology, and buying British out-right when we have more procurement projects running than we can effectively pursue in-house. There'll be many instances of Walmington thinking about inter-operability with British forces, and perhaps more lobbying from our side to increase that than the more powerful British bother about, but we won't currently be selecting only British standards in, for example, small-arms cartridges. I think that will have been long running -generations-, where as co-operation with the Federacy will have been intermittent and ad hoc, and we'll have had relatively little to do with Marimaian military industry except when we've sniffed a potential export customer. It might be good to play that as a rapidly growing area of interest in the modern day!

Perhaps where Britain and Singapore both produce systems for the same role, choices can be made and duplicates left for other nations to claim. ((RWN eyes fall on the wee Endurance-class LPDs))

Winfield House and the new embassy I'll happily take, thank you muchly!

[Chrinthanium]

Britain used to operate Buccaneers as carrier strike aircraft, and Phantoms re-engined by Rolls Royce as fleet air defence fighters.
There was a proposal to build a Super Buccaneer that would have been supersonic and, if built today, would probably have digital avionics and new materials.

The Phantom has been heavily upgraded in Turkish service, and lots of other proposals existed, too (I looked into it a little bit when WoS had territory in the US). Israel developed a version that was scuppered partly because it was seen as a threat to F/A-18 sales, so that potentially gives Britain something arguably competitive with one of Amerique's main naval fighters.

Broadly, Chrin, would you be all right with WoS claiming a lot of Britain's, “What if...?” projects and leaving the actually-adopted things to you (though we'll buy or licence-produce some of those). EM-2 rifle, M-777 Portee, LIMAWS, VFM-5 light tank, et cetera.
Mostly cut-price proposals and light armour and artillery with a mind to portability around my disparate empire, only requiring superiority over less well equipped forces or the ability to play a supporting role to British operations.

I see WoS probably using a lot of British sub-contractors on our domestic military technology, and buying British out-right when we have more procurement projects running than we can effectively pursue in-house. There'll be many instances of Walmington thinking about inter-operability with British forces, and perhaps more lobbying from our side to increase that than the more powerful British bother about, but we won't currently be selecting only British standards in, for example, small-arms cartridges. I think that will have been long running -generations-, where as co-operation with the Federacy will have been intermittent and ad hoc, and we'll have had relatively little to do with Marimaian military industry except when we've sniffed a potential export customer. It might be good to play that as a rapidly growing area of interest in the modern day!

Perhaps where Britain and Singapore both produce systems for the same role, choices can be made and duplicates left for other nations to claim. ((RWN eyes fall on the wee Endurance-class LPDs))

Winfield House and the new embassy I'll happily take, thank you muchly!

I would be anything but me if I didn't go with the idea that what Britain makes IRL and uses IRL will be what AMW Britain makes and uses IRL. I'm certain that many of the British "what if...?" projects can be sent over to you. Perhaps part of what we do is come up with an idea, decide somewhere along the line that it isn't quite what we want, then see if Walmington is interested in it before we send it to the vault of things that never were. We may well simply request a particularly conspicuous clause stating something to the effect of allowing us first non-Walmingtonian dibs at purchasing if it works better than envisioned once you develop it.

I have also been informed through offsite discussion with a learned non-AMW friend that there has been a lot of interesting tactics with the potential of British-built nuclear weapons systems. Namely how Britain devises a plan it can't quite afford which kind of makes Washington shiver a bit and then offer an American-built alternative letting the British save a fortune in R&D. Since American products are likely off limits to the AMW British Empire, we probably do use some of those unbuilt British things. Blue Streak II or III anyone? Perhaps a created sub-launched nuclear missile? Something to keep our enemies on their toes and give credence to the building of the Vanguard?

As it stands, AMW Britain probably uses Marimaia like some American companies use Mexico... cheaper labor. Classified systems will always be built in-house. While Britain sees Marimaia as a kindred spirit, it also realizes that, at some point in an all-out war, it'll be every nation for itself if things go badly.

Speaking of Marimaia, this kind of brings me, around and about, to an idea regarding British Imperial Territory. Rather than take all of Mozambique, I'm going to keep most of it dropping only the southern portion (Inhambane province, Gaza province, Maputo province, Maputo city). This means only a population of 20,418,061 in Mozambique freeing up 5,512,089. I also feel Hong Kong is a post too far into Asia. That frees up another 7,167,403 people for a total free-up of 12,679,492. The reductions bring British Imperial population down to 179,865,939. Still, I feel that the British Empire needs some formal presence in the New World and a few other islands in the Indian Ocean. Since the previously suggested territories hit 192 million, I won't exceed that number. In fact, it comes as a reduction of population overall. The desired additions:

Aruba: 113,648
Bonaire: 18,905
Curacao: 149,035
Jamaica: 2,970,340
St. Lucia: 164,464
Barbados: 291,495
St. Vincent and the Grenadines: 102,350
Grenada: 111,219
Seychelles: 93,186
Mayotte: 212,645
Trinidad and Tobago: 1,220,479
Comoros: 794,678
Scattered Islands in the Indian Ocean: 0 permanent, 56 staff (Glorioso Islands, Banc de Geyser included; Juan de Nova island; Bassas de India; Tromelin Island, Europa Island).

After the subtraction, that would add 5,447,766 bringing the total British Imperial population to 186,108,383, which is an overall reduction of 6,437,048.

Their basic and vague history is such that they were our first colonial outposts in the late 1600s and early 1700s. From there we sailed East towards Africa, Eastern Indian Ocean, the Middle East, India, and Singapore.

Glad you like the Walmingtonian Foreign Missio,\n idea. I thought your ambassador might like some nice accommodations.

Poor Chrinthania... Nate is going to have to buy a few tanks... and probably some drones from California. Does California sell those through a defense industry Amazon-alike?

Both Beeg and I have been attempting to TG EP about things, but the NS TG system has an issue with the space he put on either side of his hyphen. So, if any of you seem him tell him we wanna talk with him The issue was solved by [violet].

[Marimaia]

As it stands, AMW Britain probably uses Marimaia like some American companies use Mexico... cheaper labor. Classified systems will always be built in-house. While Britain sees Marimaia as a kindred spirit, it also realizes that, at some point in an all-out war, it'll be every nation for itself if things go badly.

Considering that I'm the far-flung 'only non-Atlantic' rightist, maybe I should be looking to be less like "a Mexico to your USA" and more of "a Japan to your Germany/rest of the Axis" I mean I've got two large hostile commie states about 1000 miles away and liberal surfer hippie types roughly the same distance to the south. I'm almost under siege!

[Chrinthanium]

As it stands, AMW Britain probably uses Marimaia like some American companies use Mexico... cheaper labor. Classified systems will always be built in-house. While Britain sees Marimaia as a kindred spirit, it also realizes that, at some point in an all-out war, it'll be every nation for itself if things go badly.

Considering that I'm the far-flung 'only non-Atlantic' rightist, maybe I should be looking to be less like "a Mexico to your USA" and more of "a Japan to your Germany/rest of the Axis" I mean I've got two large hostile commie states about 1000 miles away and liberal surfer hippie types roughly the same distance to the south. I'm almost under siege!

If you're under siege by the "liberal, hippie, surfer types" it's because some of them heard the surf is good. You're more likely to be invaded by Chrinthani young men and women wearing very little than fully-kitted armed Chrinthani.

[Europe - Prussia]

Yo! So everybody knows, I'm still alive. I've just been kindq busy with uni and a new job (which has been more demanding than I originally thought). Anyway, now that I have more free time (one week of vacations plus finally getting my time organised) I should be appearing mroe frequently around here and the IRC.
For now though, I'll read all the posts on the threads (I see there's new people too) and move forward the imperial election rp. Also, feel free to send me a TG, but if the problem that BG pointed out hasn't been solved yet I will be on the IRC later.

[Chrinthanium]

Yo! So everybody knows, I'm still alive. I've just been kindq busy with uni and a new job (which has been more demanding than I originally thought). Anyway, now that I have more free time (one week of vacations plus finally getting my time organised) I should be appearing mroe frequently around here and the IRC.
For now though, I'll read all the posts on the threads (I see there's new people too) and move forward the imperial election rp. Also, feel free to send me a TG, but if the problem that BG pointed out hasn't been solved yet I will be on the IRC later.

I posted a note in Technical and [violet] fixed that issue. We can now TG you, good sir. Glad to know you're alive!

...

As I stated above, after figuring out new territory, the population is 185,313,705. With a GDP per capita of 20,847.13, that would bring the GDP of the British Empire down to 3,863,258,898,916. I still put the British budget at about 1.3 Trillion. Plenty of money to spend on military or national health or a fifth column in India. These additions were strategic cricket purposes. That’s the official line, anyway

I believe that there would have been potential for Britain to relinquish control of their North American/Caribbean territories at sometime in the past at the request of the Americans until it was evident the Americans weren’t going to stop meddling in Ireland. Since that’s right on our doorstep, we probably feel it’s nearly equal that we keep a presence in the Caribbean. If America wants to keep Europe out of North America, it must first extract itself from Europe. That will be the British policy towards decolonization in the Caribbean.

The Great British Renaming Project is a slow go at best. I want to rename London first, then the rest. Trying to use etymologies hasn’t helped that process. Still, I am working towards this goal. Hopefully I will come up with things that work well. The biggest issue is coming up with names I like. I have to feel the name is a good fit before I decide on it.

Regarding British WMDs, Britain, even in this form, doesn’t use chemical or biological weapons. We do retain the right to use nuclear missiles. The overall idea I had was that the British Empire has a stockpile of about 90 nuclear missiles, 30 medium-range ballistic missiles (Blue Streak), around 30 Blue Steel missiles, and around 30 sub-launched missiles. Not a huge stockpile, but enough to make someone think twice about nuking us. Unlike some might think, we’re not interested in killing people through the use of the power of the Sun at close range. I probably will reduce this number before the final draft is done. Britain does not have a first-strike policy regarding its nuclear weapons.

I am thinking the Royal Navy consists of carrier strike groups. Somewhere between 3-5 of them. Possibly up to 6 total. Not certain if I need that many. I’m still working it up in my head. I’m still thinking we’ve updated the Invincible-class to continue to use them into this new century while also using the CVA-01s. 2 or 3 Illustrious class light carriers and 2 or 3 CVA-01s, maybe we’re investigating the feasibility of a RL HMS Queen Elizabeth alike, but wanting to make sure it isn’t a complete waste of time before we give the green light. Who knows at this point. Lots of ideas mulling about the noggin this morning. I wish we still had battleships. Battleships are cool. I’d rather have battleship than SSBNs. Too bad battleships have gone the way of the dinosaur.

Since TUGS has the Phantom, I suppose I may buy that from them. I’ll look into the Israeli potential upgrades. Can’t hurt to check it out. If it causes the US to concern itself with the sale of the F-18, then that means there’s something to it.

I know that you, Walmington, were speaking about certain history from Britain you needed. Part of this was the Reformation. Were there other bits from history that you needed to have? History that I have to have on my end will probably need to be written first before I worry about the remaining roughly 2,000 years of British history

For those of you who may be curious, here is the following important character information on Britain:

The current British Monarch is Richard VII, who took the throne on 23 November 1999. At his ascension to the throne, Richard VII was 30 years old. He has been married to Queen Eleanor since 1988. He has three children: Alexandra, Princess Royal (29), David, Prince of Cambria and Heir-Apparent (27), and Prince George (26)

The current Chancellor of Britain is Alexander Grant (68) who has two children: Andrew (32) and Ethan (27).

Also, Walmington... I wondered if you'd mind if I kept Rugby as the name of, well, Rugby. For strategic sport-naming purposes.

[Marimaia]

So I've been having a ponder about the Kingdom of Marimaia, her history/ethnic makeup/military/etc. and I've identified a few things which could do with further explanation or slight revision, especially now that we have a British Empire which was attempting to colonise Asia at one point and would have therefore had relations with Marimaia for potentially quite a while. Before I go any further, I'm not moving my claim The Kingdom of Marimaia is actually in a really great position geographically and the tweaks I'd like to make won't affect any of the ongoing stuff in "It's Called Nobility". I believe that the tweaks and such will actually enhance the plausibility and possibilities for Marimaia, so here we go.

For starters, how the Margraves managed to survive long enough to pull doublecross after doublecross on the indigenous peoples of what we know as the 'Philippines'. While they would certainly have a technological advantage having come from the now-Federacy and their numbers would have fleshed out over time through immigration and a rising colonist birth rate, the Margraves were quite a way from home and I don't think that the Chrinthani would have been inclined to offer them too much in the way of support. So I've been doing some research and apparently a lot of the indigenous states/kingdoms in Southeast Asia practised slavery of one form or another. My idea is that the Margraves and their burgeoning Kingdom of Marimaia managed to thrive so well because they formed partnerships with the larger island domains in the immediate region; the Margraves provided a gateway for the nearby rulers to access the wider slave trade to TUGS (thus allowing them to access a potentially larger and wealthier market), earning a percentage of the profits for being the middlemen, and the nearby rulers engaged in more general trade with them as a result. At a time when Europeans were colonising the area, the arrival of the Margraves would have been of interest to the local rulers because the new arrivals acted rather like themselves; with the steady outlawing of the slave trade taking place at the time, the Margraves could have bizarrely thrown a lifeline for one of the local ways of life. The suffering of those inhabiting the 'Philippines' can therefore be viewed through a lens of "yes it's tragic, but the new guys are making us wealthy" by the neighboring indigenous princedoms. The fact that the Margraves worked with nearby princedoms during their formative years lends more sense to the Takamakua in the Pacific Islands being allowed to continue practising their own culture under Marimaian rule, as the Margraves will be more used to working with (and 'rewarding') their neighbours.

Now tying into the idea that the British attempted to colonise parts of Asia and were ultimately driven out, Chrin and I briefly discussed the idea of Sarawak being a former British holding which was sold to the Margraves when Britain upped sticks and wound up with only Singapore. If Sarawak was one of the princedoms and was colonised by the British in the same time period as the Margraves were finally settling in properly (so say around 1820-1830, the Margraves would have been in the region for about 20-30 years at that point), then the other princedoms could have approached the Marimaias for a formal alliance. The princes believing that the Margraves could talk to the invaders in their own language and keep them at bay, while the Margraves would see British colonisation as an issue because it would rob them of their local allies and threaten their new cosy position. So the British find themselves encountering representatives from an English-speaking kingdom and are politely asked to refrain from annexing any more of the local princedoms. Depending on how the British respond, there would either be a polite and awfully English division of spheres of influence, or there could actually be resistance to British colonialism led by the Margraves, who would end up selling weapons to their local allies in an effort to protect their own selfish interests. A polite division of interests would make it more plausible for Britain to sell Sarawak to the Margraves when they finally leave the area; if it was a case of anti-colonial resistance led by the Margraves and armed through their ongoing trade with the developing Federacy, then the British may sell Sarawak and give polite applause to a worthy local power or they might just abandon it, at which point the other princes let the Margraves take the throne of Sarawak in acknowledgement of their leadership. Either way, a treaty is signed whereby the British hold onto Singapore and the Marimaian-led alliance offer to support that colony in return for Britain letting the Marimaians have Sarawak and a bit of glory.

I know that Valendia has Brunei as a colony and that it lies well within the region I'm concerned with. If they colonised it before the Margraves arrived in Asia then they'd be part of the scenery by then, or they might do a deal with the alliance where both sides leave each other alone (I shall check with Europe-Prussia).

So as time goes on and the decades pass, the relationship between the princedoms and the Marimaians becomes much more unequal. The Margraves are bringing in experts and technology from the Federacy, the Shieldians, possibly the Gandvians as well (a gentleman's agreement where Gandvian Sumatra enjoys trade relations etc. with the locals), and even the Brits depending on how relations have developed; Marimaia is investing in the princedoms with mining, railroads, more general industry, that sort of thing, while the princedoms have become more and more dependent on Marimaia now that the slave trade is no longer profitable and the princedoms never really developed anything other than agriculture. Finally in the 1940s (just off the top of my head), the Kingdom of Marimaia starts absorbing the princedoms as autonomous regions (following the example of the Captaincy General of Takamakua); the princely families receive a Marimaian governor to advise them and guide them through Marimaian laws but otherwise retain day-to-day administration. The Marimaian invasion of Sabah still takes place in 1997 but it is due to a young new prince getting ideas after seeing the Soviets drive the British out of India; the Marimaians invade and depose him on the pretext of a communist insurgency in Sabah. The Margraves declare that Sabah will no longer be autonomous but will now become a Duchy of the Crown, inadvertantly sparking an insurgency against themselves in Sabah, while the other princely families stay in line because they're too attached to their comfortable position and power. As a result the Sabah insurgency only lasts until November 1998, and Sabah is held as 'awaiting integration' until such time as a new generation of young Sabahans have been raised under direct rule from Margravia City. If the British have become fascist by this point, then they would likely be rather impressed with the Marimaian show of force and ruthlessness; coupled with previous encounters between the two powers, that could lead to a proper alliance forming.

Following that timeline of events, the Kingdom of Marimaia would not be as 'white' as it was initially going to be. The RL Philippines territory would be pretty much Caucasian because that's where the Margraves landed, brought in their colonists and committed heinous acts upon the indigenous population, but other areas of the Kingdom would still be inhabited by the native cultures, albeit with a few more Caucasians than in RL because 'true Marimaians' would have moved into the areas for various purposes. On to the nitty-gritty as it were...

If peeps are willing, then I would like to add Kalimantan, Sulawesi, and Maluku to Marimaia, the idea being that they are the princedoms/autonomous regions which have played such a big role in Marimaian history and the development of the Margraves as a power in Asia. Just for clarification, it would result in Marimaia looking like this:

http://imgur.com/a/jKdyr

(Just as an aside before Chrin thinks of killing me since he put a new map up only last night, I have actually made a copy of the new map with the proposed addition coloured in, in an attempt to save him a bit of work).

The proposed additions would add 37,876,295 people, resulting in a final tally of 145,377,493. Due to the more peaceful build-up of the nation, the increased reserves of oil, gas, and gold (among other things) and potential trade with the British Empire/more fleshed out trade with Gandvian Sumatra, I would also ask if I could increase the GDP per capita slightly (by $800) to $12,400. Just for RL comparison, that's equal to Indonesia (Marimaia having become very close to being AMW's equivalent in terms of the territory). The reason why I'm not asking for Java and the Lesser Sunda Islands is because they would put me at roughly 310 million people (Java alone is 144,495,791), which would make Marimaia one of the most populated nations in AMW and that would potentially present a massive shift in the balance of power in the world towards the rightists; considering that we've just gotten a fascist British Empire, I don't think it would be fair to have one of their potential allies become another massive power. As far as any other potential territory, there really wouldn't be any point in it. Taiwan, Hainan Island, Hong Kong and the like would be best served by going to someone with Chinese territory, and Vietnam would give me a land border with Dra-pol, which is so terrifying a prospect I don't really want to consider it.

Anyway, for clarity's sake, the proposed change would result in a military budget of $46.6 billion, which weighs in at 7% of government spending or 2.59% of total GDP. Again for RL comparison, that's roughly equal to the military budget of Japan (for them it's only 1% of government spending because they're, y'know, Japan). The justification for 7% is simply....Dra-pol is less than 900 miles away, and Soviet India isn't too far away after that. It won't result in some high-tech wonderland military for Marimaia by any means, but it will allow the Margraves to have a military that would actually stand something of a decent chance against the Reds and potentially give the Brits some peace of mind when it comes to defending Singapore. Plus it would make Marimaia into one hell of a roadblock between the Reds and Chrinthania; the Margraves have no reason to go to war with Nate, and if the British wanted them to do so then the Margraves would like to be able to say no without losing too much in the way of defense.


So....any thoughts, criticisms, opinions? Basically I intend for this to round Marimaia off and then she's as best equipped as she'll be for whatever AMW throws at her. I think I'd go near-enough insane if I had more than one nation on the go in AMW so I'd like to get Marimaia as 'perfect' as I possibly can.

[Chrinthanium]

So I've been having a ponder about the Kingdom of Marimaia, her history/ethnic makeup/military/etc. and I've identified a few things which could do with further explanation or slight revision, especially now that we have a British Empire which was attempting to colonise Asia at one point and would have therefore had relations with Marimaia for potentially quite a while. Before I go any further, I'm not moving my claim The Kingdom of Marimaia is actually in a really great position geographically and the tweaks I'd like to make won't affect any of the ongoing stuff in "It's Called Nobility". I believe that the tweaks and such will actually enhance the plausibility and possibilities for Marimaia, so here we go.

For starters, how the Margraves managed to survive long enough to pull doublecross after doublecross on the indigenous peoples of what we know as the 'Philippines'. While they would certainly have a technological advantage having come from the now-Federacy and their numbers would have fleshed out over time through immigration and a rising colonist birth rate, the Margraves were quite a way from home and I don't think that the Chrinthani would have been inclined to offer them too much in the way of support. So I've been doing some research and apparently a lot of the indigenous states/kingdoms in Southeast Asia practised slavery of one form or another. My idea is that the Margraves and their burgeoning Kingdom of Marimaia managed to thrive so well because they formed partnerships with the larger island domains in the immediate region; the Margraves provided a gateway for the nearby rulers to access the wider slave trade to TUGS (thus allowing them to access a potentially larger and wealthier market), earning a percentage of the profits for being the middlemen, and the nearby rulers engaged in more general trade with them as a result. At a time when Europeans were colonising the area, the arrival of the Margraves would have been of interest to the local rulers because the new arrivals acted rather like themselves; with the steady outlawing of the slave trade taking place at the time, the Margraves could have bizarrely thrown a lifeline for one of the local ways of life. The suffering of those inhabiting the 'Philippines' can therefore be viewed through a lens of "yes it's tragic, but the new guys are making us wealthy" by the neighboring indigenous princedoms. The fact that the Margraves worked with nearby princedoms during their formative years lends more sense to the Takamakua in the Pacific Islands being allowed to continue practising their own culture under Marimaian rule, as the Margraves will be more used to working with (and 'rewarding') their neighbours.

Now tying into the idea that the British attempted to colonise parts of Asia and were ultimately driven out, Chrin and I briefly discussed the idea of Sarawak being a former British holding which was sold to the Margraves when Britain upped sticks and wound up with only Singapore. If Sarawak was one of the princedoms and was colonised by the British in the same time period as the Margraves were finally settling in properly (so say around 1820-1830, the Margraves would have been in the region for about 20-30 years at that point), then the other princedoms could have approached the Marimaias for a formal alliance. The princes believing that the Margraves could talk to the invaders in their own language and keep them at bay, while the Margraves would see British colonisation as an issue because it would rob them of their local allies and threaten their new cosy position. So the British find themselves encountering representatives from an English-speaking kingdom and are politely asked to refrain from annexing any more of the local princedoms. Depending on how the British respond, there would either be a polite and awfully English division of spheres of influence, or there could actually be resistance to British colonialism led by the Margraves, who would end up selling weapons to their local allies in an effort to protect their own selfish interests. A polite division of interests would make it more plausible for Britain to sell Sarawak to the Margraves when they finally leave the area; if it was a case of anti-colonial resistance led by the Margraves and armed through their ongoing trade with the developing Federacy, then the British may sell Sarawak and give polite applause to a worthy local power or they might just abandon it, at which point the other princes let the Margraves take the throne of Sarawak in acknowledgement of their leadership. Either way, a treaty is signed whereby the British hold onto Singapore and the Marimaian-led alliance offer to support that colony in return for Britain letting the Marimaians have Sarawak and a bit of glory.

I know that Valendia has Brunei as a colony and that it lies well within the region I'm concerned with. If they colonised it before the Margraves arrived in Asia then they'd be part of the scenery by then, or they might do a deal with the alliance where both sides leave each other alone (I shall check with Europe-Prussia).

So as time goes on and the decades pass, the relationship between the princedoms and the Marimaians becomes much more unequal. The Margraves are bringing in experts and technology from the Federacy, the Shieldians, possibly the Gandvians as well (a gentleman's agreement where Gandvian Sumatra enjoys trade relations etc. with the locals), and even the Brits depending on how relations have developed; Marimaia is investing in the princedoms with mining, railroads, more general industry, that sort of thing, while the princedoms have become more and more dependent on Marimaia now that the slave trade is no longer profitable and the princedoms never really developed anything other than agriculture. Finally in the 1940s (just off the top of my head), the Kingdom of Marimaia starts absorbing the princedoms as autonomous regions (following the example of the Captaincy General of Takamakua); the princely families receive a Marimaian governor to advise them and guide them through Marimaian laws but otherwise retain day-to-day administration. The Marimaian invasion of Sabah still takes place in 1997 but it is due to a young new prince getting ideas after seeing the Soviets drive the British out of India; the Marimaians invade and depose him on the pretext of a communist insurgency in Sabah. The Margraves declare that Sabah will no longer be autonomous but will now become a Duchy of the Crown, inadvertantly sparking an insurgency against themselves in Sabah, while the other princely families stay in line because they're too attached to their comfortable position and power. As a result the Sabah insurgency only lasts until November 1998, and Sabah is held as 'awaiting integration' until such time as a new generation of young Sabahans have been raised under direct rule from Margravia City. If the British have become fascist by this point, then they would likely be rather impressed with the Marimaian show of force and ruthlessness; coupled with previous encounters between the two powers, that could lead to a proper alliance forming.

Following that timeline of events, the Kingdom of Marimaia would not be as 'white' as it was initially going to be. The RL Philippines territory would be pretty much Caucasian because that's where the Margraves landed, brought in their colonists and committed heinous acts upon the indigenous population, but other areas of the Kingdom would still be inhabited by the native cultures, albeit with a few more Caucasians than in RL because 'true Marimaians' would have moved into the areas for various purposes. On to the nitty-gritty as it were...

If peeps are willing, then I would like to add Kalimantan, Sulawesi, and Maluku to Marimaia, the idea being that they are the princedoms/autonomous regions which have played such a big role in Marimaian history and the development of the Margraves as a power in Asia. Just for clarification, it would result in Marimaia looking like this:

http://imgur.com/a/jKdyr

(Just as an aside before Chrin thinks of killing me since he put a new map up only last night, I have actually made a copy of the new map with the proposed addition coloured in, in an attempt to save him a bit of work).

The proposed additions would add 37,876,295 people, resulting in a final tally of 145,377,493. Due to the more peaceful build-up of the nation, the increased reserves of oil, gas, and gold (among other things) and potential trade with the British Empire/more fleshed out trade with Gandvian Sumatra, I would also ask if I could increase the GDP per capita slightly (by $800) to $12,400. Just for RL comparison, that's equal to Indonesia (Marimaia having become very close to being AMW's equivalent in terms of the territory). The reason why I'm not asking for Java and the Lesser Sunda Islands is because they would put me at roughly 310 million people (Java alone is 144,495,791), which would make Marimaia one of the most populated nations in AMW and that would potentially present a massive shift in the balance of power in the world towards the rightists; considering that we've just gotten a fascist British Empire, I don't think it would be fair to have one of their potential allies become another massive power. As far as any other potential territory, there really wouldn't be any point in it. Taiwan, Hainan Island, Hong Kong and the like would be best served by going to someone with Chinese territory, and Vietnam would give me a land border with Dra-pol, which is so terrifying a prospect I don't really want to consider it.

Anyway, for clarity's sake, the proposed change would result in a military budget of $46.6 billion, which weighs in at 7% of government spending or 2.59% of total GDP. Again for RL comparison, that's roughly equal to the military budget of Japan (for them it's only 1% of government spending because they're, y'know, Japan). The justification for 7% is simply....Dra-pol is less than 900 miles away, and Soviet India isn't too far away after that. It won't result in some high-tech wonderland military for Marimaia by any means, but it will allow the Margraves to have a military that would actually stand something of a decent chance against the Reds and potentially give the Brits some peace of mind when it comes to defending Singapore. Plus it would make Marimaia into one hell of a roadblock between the Reds and Chrinthania; the Margraves have no reason to go to war with Nate, and if the British wanted them to do so then the Margraves would like to be able to say no without losing too much in the way of defense.


So....any thoughts, criticisms, opinions? Basically I intend for this to round Marimaia off and then she's as best equipped as she'll be for whatever AMW throws at her. I think I'd go near-enough insane if I had more than one nation on the go in AMW so I'd like to get Marimaia as 'perfect' as I possibly can.

I thought the last expansion was the limits to the most plausible Marimaian claim? The map is a few clicks of your color in the right spots. I also use layers, so no plugging in a partial map.

You may not lose too much in the way of defense if the British want you to go to war with Chrinthania, but we're definitely able to make Marimaia's life hell for a while. Not that Britain would do that. And Britain wouldn't want you to go to war with Chrinthania. That was, after all, a British colony at one point (yup, going that way, but much earlier in time). The British view the Chrinthani as a prodigal son who will never be allowed back home because all that hippie stuff means all organic, farm-fresh ingredients which causes way too much flatulence and the Chrinthani are far too fond of walking around in thongs and that could result in dirty feet and that would muck up the carpet. No, we can't have that. If the carpet is all mucky, then the British can't invite people to tea and that is a grievous sin from which there can be no forgiveness.

I have to let that history rattle around in my head. The British probably wouldn't accept a treaty in which they were "allowed" to retain Singapore. That's our city-state and we have it with or without Marimaian permission. AS far as the British leaving that area, they may opt to offload those additional territories due to some internal issue I've yet to create to cause us to not want to be that far East/West (whichever way you lot look at it).. or some other internal strife that often strikes global empires.

We have our Major-generals, who are very knowledgeable about a myriad of topics, in particular... colonizing on horseback. In fact, you'll say a better Major-general has never sat a gee. I'm already getting visions of how those colonies were set up.

Eh, I can't come up with any desire to object or otherwise oppose outside of Chrinthania being even more outnumbered than before, which is becoming a problem Guess we'll have to find a way to up the birthrates down undah.

[Marimaia]

I thought the last expansion was the limits to the most plausible Marimaian claim? The map is a few clicks of your color in the right spots. I also use layers, so no plugging in a partial map.

You may not lose too much in the way of defense if the British want you to go to war with Chrinthania, but we're definitely able to make Marimaia's life hell for a while. Not that Britain would do that. And Britain wouldn't want you to go to war with Chrinthania. That was, after all, a British colony at one point (yup, going that way, but much earlier in time). The British view the Chrinthani as a prodigal son who will never be allowed back home because all that hippie stuff means all organic, farm-fresh ingredients which causes way too much flatulence and the Chrinthani are far too fond of walking around in thongs and that could result in dirty feet and that would muck up the carpet. No, we can't have that. If the carpet is all mucky, then the British can't invite people to tea and that is a grievous sin from which there can be no forgiveness.

I have to let that history rattle around in my head. The British probably wouldn't accept a treaty in which they were "allowed" to retain Singapore. That's our city-state and we have it with or without Marimaian permission. AS far as the British leaving that area, they may opt to offload those additional territories due to some internal issue I've yet to create to cause us to not want to be that far East/West (whichever way you lot look at it).. or some other internal strife that often strikes global empires.

We have our Major-generals, who are very knowledgeable about a myriad of topics, in particular... colonizing on horseback. In fact, you'll say a better Major-general has never sat a gee. I'm already getting visions of how those colonies were set up.

Eh, I can't come up with any desire to object or otherwise oppose outside of Chrinthania being even more outnumbered than before, which is becoming a problem Guess we'll have to find a way to up the birthrates down undah.

Fair enough with the map. My opinion is that under the premise of the Margraves showing up, clearing out the Philippines etc. with only assistance from incoming colonists and hired mercenaries then yes, the last expansion was the limit to the most plausible claim. Under the premise that they formed partnerships with neighbouring island princedoms who were into slavery and saw an advantage in working with these well-equipped newcomers, then the territories I've asked for are those neighbouring princedoms having become autonomous regions as the relationship between the princes and the Margraves became more and more unequal over time. It's less 'all-conquering' and shows that the Margraves can actually play with others for an extended period of time, although ultimately they will always be looking to their own advantage

The treaty wasn't meant as "Britain gets to hold Singapore with Marimaian permission", it was meant as "in return for Marimaia getting Sarawak, they promise to support the British position in Singapore and not mess with it". If the British are having to pull most of their assets out of the region for whatever reason, it wouldn't hurt to secure some degree of assistance from locals. It was just an idea though, that whole aspect of stuff ultimately depends on which areas were colonised, the reason for the British withdrawal and the state of British-Marimaian relations during that time, and that's obviously a work-in-progress.

The idea of Britain going to war with Chrinthania is obviously highly unlikely, but it's an example of the type of situation where a strong Marimaian military is necessary. If the Margraves are too dependent on the British in defense matters then it's more difficult for them to say 'no'; if Marimaia can hold her own then the Margraves have much more freedom to follow their own foreign policy even if it runs counter to that of the British. Besides that, a strong military would explain why deposed foreign royal families see Marimaia as a potential refuge despite the proximity to Dra-pol and Soviet India (obviously there's also the fact that the Margraves would provide a more traditional work-shy lifestyle for foreign royalty while I'm guessing the Brits would make them work for citizenship, but you're not going to flee to somewhere if you're not going to feel safe there). Combined with the Royal Security Commission (secret police/intelligence) enjoying a budget of $20,009,758,136.52 with the slight increase in GDP, Marimaia should be a fairly safe haven.