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Chrinthanium
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6596
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:16 pm

Amerique wrote:I personally like the idea of a Jewish Poland-Bohemia Khazaria with cities like Prague and Krákow, might be interesting with a history of being exchanged between the major powers in the area or resisting occupation. Perhaps the messianism would start partly as a way to be more palatable to the imperialist Christian neighbors?

Glenmere in southeast US works too, and there could definitely be some friction with a return of the religious and racialist TUGS in super Texas and my anti-monarchist self.

If Glenmere ever gets around to posting an actual application. Personally, I'd rather see Glenmere, Tugs, and America all share a border with each other.
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Glenmere
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jan 20, 2012
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Glenmere » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:39 pm

Chrinthanium wrote:If Glenmere ever gets around to posting an actual application. Personally, I'd rather see Glenmere, Tugs, and America all share a border with each other.


I've had a relative in hospital recently, my apologies. As to an application, I'm a bit hung up as to which idea to go with. A compelling case and series of possibilities has been made for each.

Who's this Tugs/Gulf States?
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The United Gulf States
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Corporate Police State

Postby The United Gulf States » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:03 pm

I hope that your relative is doing well, Glenmere.

To answer your question; the Federation of the United Gulf States was a short-lived nation in AMW's history, and one which I'm hoping to give a second chance, especially so if you should follow through with a state in the south-east of the US!

It centred on Texas and northern Mexico, and was a post-colonial white-dominated apartheid state.

Texas, New Mexico, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Kansas, southern Missouri, Neuvo Leon, & Tamaulipas are TUGS-proper, while Coahuila, Chihuahua, Durango, Sinaloa, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi, Nayarit, Aguascalientes, Jalisco, Colima, Guanajuato, Michoacan, and Queretaro were officially protectorates (and in practice just colonial possessions).

Relations with California -with which it shared a long border- and America -with which it shares a shorter border on the Missouri (in... Missouri. And also a little bit of Kansas) were not particularly good, to say the least, and resistance movements of considerable scope existed amongst both Native and African American citizens and subjects of the Federation.

TUGS was dominated by patriarchal WASPs, but New Money ones at that (Old Money mostly having remained in the apparently still-thriving British Kinda-Empire). The state treated Natives as vermin to be exterminated, Blacks as cattle to be exploited, mixed-race peoples as a guilty burden to be hidden, and non-Anglophone/non-Anglican Whites as embarrassing relatives to be 'managed', and had essentially no committed geopolitical allies since alienating even the British.

So a terrible state, but potentially interesting neighbour?

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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:41 pm

The United Gulf States wrote:I hope that your relative is doing well, Glenmere.

To answer your question; the Federation of the United Gulf States was a short-lived nation in AMW's history, and one which I'm hoping to give a second chance, especially so if you should follow through with a state in the south-east of the US!

It centred on Texas and northern Mexico, and was a post-colonial white-dominated apartheid state.

Texas, New Mexico, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Kansas, southern Missouri, Neuvo Leon, & Tamaulipas are TUGS-proper, while Coahuila, Chihuahua, Durango, Sinaloa, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi, Nayarit, Aguascalientes, Jalisco, Colima, Guanajuato, Michoacan, and Queretaro were officially protectorates (and in practice just colonial possessions).

Relations with California -with which it shared a long border- and America -with which it shares a shorter border on the Missouri (in... Missouri. And also a little bit of Kansas) were not particularly good, to say the least, and resistance movements of considerable scope existed amongst both Native and African American citizens and subjects of the Federation.

TUGS was dominated by patriarchal WASPs, but New Money ones at that (Old Money mostly having remained in the apparently still-thriving British Kinda-Empire). The state treated Natives as vermin to be exterminated, Blacks as cattle to be exploited, mixed-race peoples as a guilty burden to be hidden, and non-Anglophone/non-Anglican Whites as embarrassing relatives to be 'managed', and had essentially no committed geopolitical allies since alienating even the British.

So a terrible state, but potentially interesting neighbour?

Well, if ever there was a perfect description of a nation, you've nailed it.
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Glenmere
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jan 20, 2012
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Glenmere » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:11 pm

The United Gulf States wrote:So a terrible state, but potentially interesting neighbour?


Very much so, and I think you've nailed my decision down for me, awesome as the Czech-Polish idea sounds in its own right. I'll get to work on my application at once...after some sleep. I'll try to land a claim large enough in the U.S. South/Southeast to give me some borderline with both of my major neighbors, just to make things super-awkward.
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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:35 pm

Glenmere wrote:
The United Gulf States wrote:So a terrible state, but potentially interesting neighbour?


Very much so, and I think you've nailed my decision down for me, awesome as the Czech-Polish idea sounds in its own right. I'll get to work on my application at once...after some sleep. I'll try to land a claim large enough in the U.S. South/Southeast to give me some borderline with both of my major neighbors, just to make things super-awkward.

Sounds a very AMW-like agreement :P
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The Crooked Beat
Diplomat
 
Posts: 589
Founded: Feb 22, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Crooked Beat » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:15 pm

Hi everyone, just a small question, what did we end up agreeing on for the exact border between Parsistan and Romnika?

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Chemaki
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1406
Founded: Apr 23, 2010
Corporate Police State

Postby Chemaki » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:14 pm

The Crooked Beat wrote:Hi everyone, just a small question, what did we end up agreeing on for the exact border between Parsistan and Romnika?


What a time to check up! Good question, really - I'm not too keen with keeping Kuwait and Southern Iraq, and like the idea of having some tenuous foothold on a decent few oilfields via Kermanshah and Kurdistan, and perhaps Ilam, but it's difficult to come up with a solution that doesn't cause too much border gore... Whatever floats your boat, really! I'm sure the extra land in Kuwait and southern Iraq will be tempting for an Arabian claimant, if you're not interested in taking them, and if you are, it means there's less dragonland to deal with, and we can put down some history and flesh out the Iraqi region a bit.
Last edited by Chemaki on Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:52 pm

Chemaki wrote:
The Crooked Beat wrote:Hi everyone, just a small question, what did we end up agreeing on for the exact border between Parsistan and Romnika?


What a time to check up! Good question, really - I'm not too keen with keeping Kuwait and Southern Iraq, and like the idea of having some tenuous foothold on a decent few oilfields via Kermanshah and Kurdistan, and perhaps Ilam, but it's difficult to come up with a solution that doesn't cause too much border gore... Whatever floats your boat, really! I'm sure the extra land in Kuwait and southern Iraq will be tempting for an Arabian claimant, if you're not interested in taking them, and if you are, it means there's less dragonland to deal with, and we can put down some history and flesh out the Iraqi region a bit.
The Crooked Beat wrote:Hi everyone, just a small question, what did we end up agreeing on for the exact border between Parsistan and Romnika?

Well, that's an interesting question to see since the border, as it appears on the map, has been there for a while. Still.... just let me know what the changes are if any.
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Beddgelert
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Posts: 465
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Beddgelert » Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:17 pm

So I've been trying to rebuild the CSR's factbook for ages, and making little progress. Even so, it doesn't feel like in doing so I've missed much else in AMW.

I -and we- keep tinkering. But for all the good chats we have in IRC, all the factbooking that gets done, all the good ideas postulated, I seem to do twice so much re-reading of old threads and remembering better times.

Does anyone think I should go back to Soviet India?

To me -perhaps I'm massively biased- this doesn't feel like a mere claim-jump so much as a broad reboot. BG has been in its present place -with fluctuating borders, changed sometimes through RP- ever since the big reboot of I-can't-even-remember-what-year, and was prior to that in-place in South Asia for a similarly long time, and was then ever central to world affairs.

Going back to that would be big for everyone.

I think perhaps the only person losing much history in Europe would be Ian, but perhaps even much of that is peripheral. The Javians can Jave on their own if they just do it a bit harder, perhaps, and a bigger BG can support Wyclyfe from further away if need be.

BG back in India would be a super-power again, as in AMW V1.0, and back to using more fictional armaments and more mainstream-NS absurdities of character.

Restored Soviet India would be a genuine counter-weight to ever prevailing Liberal and/or Fascist forces in the world, where current CSR is merely an obstacle.

I'm loathe to give-up everything that's come and gone in the Saimonas, but I'm struggling to take it any further and perhaps ready to accept it as another enjoyable but completed chapter.
Maybe going back to India is, well, going back rather than moving forward, but at the moment I feel it may be worth trying.

I'll have missed all sorts of important developments that may bear on this, I'm sure.
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Chrinthanium
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6596
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:32 pm

Beddgelert wrote:So I've been trying to rebuild the CSR's factbook for ages, and making little progress. Even so, it doesn't feel like in doing so I've missed much else in AMW.

I -and we- keep tinkering. But for all the good chats we have in IRC, all the factbooking that gets done, all the good ideas postulated, I seem to do twice so much re-reading of old threads and remembering better times.

Does anyone think I should go back to Soviet India?

To me -perhaps I'm massively biased- this doesn't feel like a mere claim-jump so much as a broad reboot. BG has been in its present place -with fluctuating borders, changed sometimes through RP- ever since the big reboot of I-can't-even-remember-what-year, and was prior to that in-place in South Asia for a similarly long time, and was then ever central to world affairs.

Going back to that would be big for everyone.

I think perhaps the only person losing much history in Europe would be Ian, but perhaps even much of that is peripheral. The Javians can Jave on their own if they just do it a bit harder, perhaps, and a bigger BG can support Wyclyfe from further away if need be.

BG back in India would be a super-power again, as in AMW V1.0, and back to using more fictional armaments and more mainstream-NS absurdities of character.

Restored Soviet India would be a genuine counter-weight to ever prevailing Liberal and/or Fascist forces in the world, where current CSR is merely an obstacle.

I'm loathe to give-up everything that's come and gone in the Saimonas, but I'm struggling to take it any further and perhaps ready to accept it as another enjoyable but completed chapter.
Maybe going back to India is, well, going back rather than moving forward, but at the moment I feel it may be worth trying.

I'll have missed all sorts of important developments that may bear on this, I'm sure.

You once told me that the goal is to find an idea you like and stick with it. I've heard you speak over the years I've known you about how you liked Soviet India and many tales of its once-great culture and history. To be frank, if you're unhappy in Southeastern Europe, then I'm for any move that makes you happy. Even if you don't move, as long as you're happy. Before others start talking about history having to be retconned, all I can say is that we will do what needs to be done in that aspect if need be. Have no fear, Chrin is here.... and fabulous, but you already knew that.

And, if you left... I already have an idea for the former CSR... I see lots of rainbow flags and the biggest gay day in AMW history.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Beddgelert
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Posts: 465
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Beddgelert » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:42 pm

This is by no means sold. I'm hearing lots of opinions in messages and on IRC and so forth. I'm only interested in change if it stimulates good RP in AMW. Some people I still want to hear from, some thoughts still to mull.

Lots of options, here.
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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:43 am

Beddgelert wrote:This is by no means sold. I'm hearing lots of opinions in messages and on IRC and so forth. I'm only interested in change if it stimulates good RP in AMW. Some people I still want to hear from, some thoughts still to mull.

Lots of options, here.

Frankly, AMW should simply reboot itself. And this reboot should be predicated on the idea you can't reclaim exactly what you have. Perhaps we might even think of applying a rule about a level of activity. Easy to meet, but something letting people know to at least try to be active. Seriously, AMW is usually slow, but any slower and we'll start going in reverse.

Conversely, since I know people shy away from complete reboots, is to follow along in Beddgelert's footsteps. He's a great coach for AMW. He'll tell you what it takes to make AMW work for you, how to work within it, and, realistically, what you can expect people to say about any idea you propose within reason. Find what it is you want to do and do it. Great words to live by in AMW.

The problem I run into is no matter where I go I find myself always seeing the grass as greener on the other side of the fence. I never settle for too long in one place then just jump to another spot trying to lock down some idea that'll keep me positioned and anchored. I guess the fact is that I get bored waiting for something to happen in AMW. I get tired trying to work out idea that might actually get other people motivated. Seriously, outside of a war-ish thread, unless it was Byz or Kyr, I didn't get much action from the rest of AMW. I get the fact we're all older than we were when we first got here and that the time we have for such things is more limited. I just sometimes think that part of the problem is no one seems to try. We're all sold on the idea of building the nation, but actually doing something with it seem just one step beyond what makes us truly happy. Perhaps I am wrong. That's just how it feels to me. Then we get a new person and they either drop off because we're not active, or they fall into the trap of just waiting it out until something happens.

While discussion arose regarding a potential Celtic shift into India, other discussion arose as to perhaps me filling that location if he did move. And, to a degree, I kind of shrugged it off and shied away from it. Then I warmed up to the idea. Of course, I'm already in two places and a third isn't needed. Furthermore, there comes a point when you have to buckle down and figure out just what it is you want and how to go about getting it in AMW. After some fun discussion in the IRC, I challenged myself to sit down and write out a list of things I want in an AMW nation and to try to work it into a claim. Obviously, it has to work within the vague and general framework we have in AMW. Not historically speaking. I mean the ground rules (Right of First Refusal, Native Industries, natural resources, etc...).

I compiled a list of 17 things I really wanted. The things that, at least to me, would make any nation I played feel worth my time. None of it has anything to do with current AMW canon or keeping within that. It has to do with the things I want to have and the things I want to do internally. I also remember something Beddgelert told me last night in the IRC about not worrying about killing off a RL culture. That's been part of my concern. I can't imagine a world without the things we have in it. There is no context for a world without, say, Britain or France, in the modern age. In fact, unless it's a nowhere, out-of-the-way nation no one cares about, none of us seem to see this world without a Russia or America or Spain. I have to get over that. I have to plonk down what I want and say, "To hell with what happened here IRL. This is AMW and this is how Mynationstania works!"

So, for now, I am working a few things out. I am trying to nail down precisely what it is I want to do and then to simply do it. I know, you're already asking me what that means for Iberia and Japan. Well, I think I'm going to drop Japan. Anything more than that is still in the deciding phase.
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Europe - Prussia
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Posts: 398
Founded: Oct 25, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Europe - Prussia » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:48 pm

A lot of interesting developments on IRC I see.

On BG's proposal, I have no problems with it. I will not give up Cochi though :p

On the idea of a reboot, I don't think it's necessary for the simple reason that there's nothing to reboot to begin with. The constant change of claims has pretty much left AMW in a blank slate so to speak, with only the history agreed by us and the claims themselves as basis, no rp to speak of. Also, I like my claim as it is now, so if a possible reboot comes with the condition that you can't reclaim exactly what you have I say no.

Now the idea of a rule requiring a certain level of activity to the members of AMW has been proposed multiple times, and everytime it had fell flat. I'm all for it though, so I hope this proposal doesn't ends like the others.
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Chrinthanium
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Posts: 6596
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:18 pm

Europe - Prussia wrote:A lot of interesting developments on IRC I see.

On BG's proposal, I have no problems with it. I will not give up Cochi though :p

On the idea of a reboot, I don't think it's necessary for the simple reason that there's nothing to reboot to begin with. The constant change of claims has pretty much left AMW in a blank slate so to speak, with only the history agreed by us and the claims themselves as basis, no rp to speak of. Also, I like my claim as it is now, so if a possible reboot comes with the condition that you can't reclaim exactly what you have I say no.

Now the idea of a rule requiring a certain level of activity to the members of AMW has been proposed multiple times, and everytime it had fell flat. I'm all for it though, so I hope this proposal doesn't ends like the others.

IRC is where AMW gets decided. Didn't you get the memo? :D
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Dra-pol
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Posts: 152
Founded: Antiquity
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Dra-pol » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:25 pm

It must be time for me to join in the discourse, I suppose.

A significant reboot seems inevitable if the Geletians leave Europe, taking with them the only Slavs in the world and the entire Hellesphere, possibly along with what remains of the Great War, which surely now must be abandoned or entirely re-written (Once upon a time, the Shield flipped-off Gandvik and Britain, and hasn't quite been the same since the consequent roundhouse. The end.)

Taking the presented opportunity and obliterating it in a human-wave assault, Hotan won't be going anywhere, and the CPRD shall persist within its current borders.

WoS, though -I will take this opportunity to admit- has not panned out as hoped in expanded form. I simply haven't found the time, and I don't see that changing in the short or medium term. ((Long-term I expect the abject collapse of civilisation to factor in AMW's daily business, to a greater or lesser degree.))

I can't give-up on WoS while both I and NS are still ticking, but I am -I think- going to have to give-up on the global empire form of the account. Especially if Dra-pol has to go back to arguing with other neighbourhood Socialists 24/7.

My first thought is for how this may ruin Amerique's history, and secondarily also other nations around the world... the prospective new BG amongst them.

Working thought: I might keep Amberland (East Prussia... about 2.5 million people) as the home of the English/Walmies (no doubt cousins of the Shieldians. We well-spoken and refined, they our more-profligate country-bumpkin off-shoots) and have that the basis for multiple small colonies around the world.

I'm thinking of having the Walmies/English as a small population of conniving merchants who arise in East Prussia then run a Hanseatic League kinda gig for a few decades and dominate it, before riding the first waves of colonialism and taking Newfoundland and Labrador, some islands in the Caribbean, and outposts across the west of Africa.

They might control parts of what is now America for a time, but never have the manpower to hold it once the locals realise that fighting is a realistic option.

Could also take Sri Lanka, there contacting the wandering Geletians, and maybe use them as a favoured population through which to carry out wider imperialism in South Asia.

Clearly we'd lose SL and any Indian possessions but maybe other outposts would remain? Newfoundland and Labrador. The Spice Islands off Tanzania? Maldives? Some Caribbean islands? Some Pacific Islands?

WoS as a corporate power in the birth of the corporate age, then over-taken by bigger states, but still holding on to some outposts?

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Chrinthanium
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6596
Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Dra-pol wrote:It must be time for me to join in the discourse, I suppose.

A significant reboot seems inevitable if the Geletians leave Europe, taking with them the only Slavs in the world and the entire Hellesphere, possibly along with what remains of the Great War, which surely now must be abandoned or entirely re-written (Once upon a time, the Shield flipped-off Gandvik and Britain, and hasn't quite been the same since the consequent roundhouse. The end.)

Taking the presented opportunity and obliterating it in a human-wave assault, Hotan won't be going anywhere, and the CPRD shall persist within its current borders.

WoS, though -I will take this opportunity to admit- has not panned out as hoped in expanded form. I simply haven't found the time, and I don't see that changing in the short or medium term. ((Long-term I expect the abject collapse of civilisation to factor in AMW's daily business, to a greater or lesser degree.))

I can't give-up on WoS while both I and NS are still ticking, but I am -I think- going to have to give-up on the global empire form of the account. Especially if Dra-pol has to go back to arguing with other neighbourhood Socialists 24/7.

My first thought is for how this may ruin Amerique's history, and secondarily also other nations around the world... the prospective new BG amongst them.

Working thought: I might keep Amberland (East Prussia... about 2.5 million people) as the home of the English/Walmies (no doubt cousins of the Shieldians. We well-spoken and refined, they our more-profligate country-bumpkin off-shoots) and have that the basis for multiple small colonies around the world.

I'm thinking of having the Walmies/English as a small population of conniving merchants who arise in East Prussia then run a Hanseatic League kinda gig for a few decades and dominate it, before riding the first waves of colonialism and taking Newfoundland and Labrador, some islands in the Caribbean, and outposts across the west of Africa.

They might control parts of what is now America for a time, but never have the manpower to hold it once the locals realise that fighting is a realistic option.

Could also take Sri Lanka, there contacting the wandering Geletians, and maybe use them as a favoured population through which to carry out wider imperialism in South Asia.

Clearly we'd lose SL and any Indian possessions but maybe other outposts would remain? Newfoundland and Labrador. The Spice Islands off Tanzania? Maldives? Some Caribbean islands? Some Pacific Islands?

WoS as a corporate power in the birth of the corporate age, then over-taken by bigger states, but still holding on to some outposts?

Holy crap. Beddgelert started a potential AMW reboot, you just hit the turbo button. Well, all I can say is that I like WoS returning to its roots. It's also giving me WAY too much overload in my mind and AMW and... the map is now severely in need of a redo.... but wow... caught me completely off guard.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chrinthanium
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Founded: Feb 04, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Chrinthanium » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:58 pm

I've thought about a few locations to plop myself. With the current shuffling of the order in AMW, I'm rather thinking the change will help me flesh out this idea in my head. Essentially what I want to do is bring the Chrinthani back into AMW. I suppose I shouldn't have left them in the first place. What's been happening is I've been working on and off on creating some European folks and they've pretty much been helped along by the basic idea of the Chrinthani. Now, what I have is a more socially progressive people than I think I've ever had in my AMW time.

Here's the pickle: with WoS giving up the British Isles, it opens up a spot I'd like to go. The problem is to make them sufficiently non-British enough to allow WoS to keep that as his thing. Who could be less British than the Chrinthani? They drink coffee, win sports which they themselves have created, have no royalty (but we had our own royalty in the past), they don't apologize to everyone for everything, and, best of all, they don't have received pronunciation. SO, here's my thought: British history, culture, royalty, can all go to Walmington. Even place names. I can rename everything because they speak English as do I, so it won't be hard to name places again. I do ask that I get to keep association football as a Chrinthani thing (even if the Walmies claim they created it, we know better!). Essentially by jettisoning everything that makes the British British will help keep the Chrinthani from becoming British.

Here is the claim:

Great Britain (no Northern Ireland): 62,566,428^
St. Vincent and the Grenadines: 102,350
Barbados: 291,495
Aruba: 113,648
Bonaire: 18,905*
Curacao: 149,035
French Polynesia: 285,321
Cabo Verde: 553,432
New Zealand: 4,474,549
Australia: 22,992,654

Total Population: 91,547,814

^Estimated figure based on Wikipedia and CIA World Factbook with the removal of Northern Ireland
*Figure from Wikipedia as CIA Fact Book did not have an entry for it

A Brief Rundown of the Basics:
  • Economically, I'm going for a 32,000 per capital GDP, with a CIA/WIki pop estimate of 91,547,814 that brings national GDP to 2.930 Trillion.
  • Militarily it will have a good military that can project its power. It will not have WMDs, though, since that hurts our environmentalist nature.
  • Culturally, it will be very progressive
    • Women's suffrage in 1880, Universal suffrage in 1920
    • Gay marriage in 1968, Transgendered equality in 1995
    • Decriminalization of all drugs in 1970, legalized marijuana in 1999
    • Legalized (though thoroughly regulated) prostitution 2001
  • Historically, it will start as a bunch of feudal kingdoms, be united, then somewhere in the 1700s or 1800s a violent revolution will see the monarchy dissolved and a republic born
    • But we kept the islands and just gave them full citizenship
    • And somewhat devolved local governance
    • Home territories still provide their defense, obviously

So, that's where I'm at and I really like it. Interested to hear from you lot.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Amerique
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Postby Amerique » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:14 pm

This sounds good to me. Not sure if potential Soviet India BG will see you as a rival for their lake, though. :P

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Chrinthanium
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Postby Chrinthanium » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:17 am

Amerique wrote:This sounds good to me. Not sure if potential Soviet India BG will see you as a rival for their lake, though. :P

I don't think they'd see us as a rival to the Indian Ocean, which doesn't belong to them in the first place. Also, thanks for your input.

I noticed I completely lacked writing in how the external territories interact with the central government. Well, considering, historically, there was monarchy and empire, there are, obviously, territories not within the "natural borders" of Chrinthania. These are, in decreasing order of population: Australia, New Zealand, Cape Verde, Barbados, French Polynesia, Curacao, Aruba, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Bonaire. The Chrinthani Constitution views all the people and land in these areas as coequal in all regards to the lands and the people within the natural borders of Chrinthania (herein known as "The Mainland"). A citizen of Cape Verde is a citizen of Chrinthania with the full rights and privileges thereof. They have the ability to vote for elected representatives in the central government based in the mainland. However, as is often the case when territories are far-flung, devolved local governments come into being to keep the peace and to allow for issues that might not affect the republic as a whole to be dealt with accordingly without having to wait. So the idea of "Constituent Countries" came about. New Zealand and Australia are constituent countries of the Chrinthani Republic. They have their own devolved governments which handle local affairs with the central government on The Mainland handling their international affairs and defense. Certainly other territories would love to have such an arrangement with the central government, but, mostly owing to their small populations, they don't. At least not like Australia and New Zealand have. They have local semi-autonomous local councils which handle the internal affairs, but cannot pass or repeal laws. These are known as Chrinthani Special Regions. Everything that isn't Australia, New Zealand, and French Polynesia, is a Special Region. Why was French Polynesia left out? Because it is not a Special Region or a Constituent Country, but an Organized Incorporated Territory of the Chrinthani Republic. Essentially the Puerto Rico to a United States, only with better surfing and in the Pacific and filled with awesome Polynesians.
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Postby Dra-pol » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:56 pm

I'm broadly in favour, Chrin.

I wonder how the progressive attitudes on sexuality, gender, narcotics, and so on advanced concurrently in different parts of the globe-spanning state, especially prior to the information age, and how they came despite a presumably colonial origin and without equivalent civil rights movements tearing the thing apart on a native/local rights basis.

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Chrinthanium
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Postby Chrinthanium » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:30 pm

Dra-pol wrote:I'm broadly in favour, Chrin.

I wonder how the progressive attitudes on sexuality, gender, narcotics, and so on advanced concurrently in different parts of the globe-spanning state, especially prior to the information age, and how they came despite a presumably colonial origin and without equivalent civil rights movements tearing the thing apart on a native/local rights basis.


I don't suppose there was always a peaceful implementation of such things. In fact, while attempting not to be British while retaining Great Britain and some of her erstwhile colonies as a claim, I looked towards the colonial history of Australia and New Zealand to help guide the direction I should take this idea. Certainly tensions there between locals and the white Chrinthani would come to a head from time to time. Colonization isn't a simple or easy process particularly if the locals aren't exactly on board with what you're doing. Perhaps for the British this meant the use of mustachioed men pointing bayonets in their direction until the locals kind of reluctantly agreed while for the Chrinthani this mean pitting local tribes or factions against each other while we worked behind the scenes solidifying powers and agreements with most of the other tribes under the guise of protection from such issues. Then, once hegemony is achieved, instituting Indirect Rule where we support local chieftains and leaders while giving them all the support (in the form of a Chrinthani-filled executive committee or cabinet) while promising (again) protection from the outside world and the administration of external affairs on their behalf.

Once the monarchy is sent off, things get rocky. I suspect that maintaining the far-flung edges of the erstwhile empire would be difficult at best. The power vacuum created by such a violent undertaking would probably spark independence movements in a variety of outlying colonies. It would be unrealistic, at least in my own estimation, that a colony that has long since began the process of developing its own personality and identity would do otherwise. There would also be no easy solution here. The first solution is the use of direct force to squelch rebellion, but I hardly see that as a feasible way to do it considering the same thing had just happened in the Home Territory. The second solution would be to allow them to go their separate ways, but then we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

The reasons for the overthrow of the monarchy had to have started in the colonies, for the most part, in my opinion. Then, it would have to gain sympathy in the Home Territory. Then these factions would essentially have to ally and collude against the monarchy itself. Part of the deal is once the monarchy is overthrown these territories will remain in union with the Home Territory but (like RL France) these territories have varied legal status within the Chrinthani Republic but all have the power to vote in Presidential elections and are represented in the Chrinthani Congress. The Chrinthani Republic provides for the defense and the international affairs of the territories while the territories themselves have devolved governments which administer the day-to-day internal affairs of the territories.

Women's Suffrage may well be a direct result of the birth of the Republic of Chrinthania. If the goal be to create a union where all are equal under the law, it would make sense that all would have to attain that kind of equality. Certainly attitudes, opinions, and culture do not change over night. Yet, they can and will change. It is perhaps interesting that New Zealand became the first self-governing territory to grant all (white) women the right to vote in parliamentary elections in 1893. That could have been an issue facing the Chrinthani Kiwi's while in Australia the Chrinthani Ozzies are busy trying to fight racial tensions that keep flaring up while the drug culture in the Caribbean islands begins to show signs of transitioning from a small issue to a more endemic problem. In fact, the idea that different territories had different issues makes this feel more interesting to me than just everyone going along for the ride as laws are passed in the Home Territory for all to follow. In the days without the internet, television, radio, or even telephone, it would have to be a devolved government trying to deal with the concerns of its local populations that spurred the changes needed, not just a President with a progressive platform (though, that may well be part of it).

The drug issue rearing its head in the Caribbean colonies, the country goes about trying to curtail it by making their use illegal, then runs into a problem as the number of convicts in Chrinthani jails begins to grow to uneasy heights. Further complicating the issue is just tossing them in the klink isn't necessarily going to solve the underlying addiction problem. Rather than go about continuing in this fashion, they decriminalize the drugs and use the NHS to help solve the addiction problem. Treat it as the health problem it really is and not the criminal problem that it isn't (at least, the possession and use of such things. Trafficking is a different ball of wax altogether). Research is showing that marijuana has health benefits, so it goes through trials and becomes a medicinal drug that, eventually, gets its own legal status under the law, though very regulated and taxed.

Again, these different issues can happen concurrently throughout the lands. In Melbourne people are fighting for equal rights because they're aboriginal or female while in Auckland it is because they're Maori or female while in London it's gay people trying to attain the same rights as their straight counterparts. Once the LGBT community can marry, other related issues crop up.. like Transgender rights.

I know that this is a slightly cleaned-up version of the post that former occupied this spot. I hope that it sheds some light onto where my mind is at. I don't think maintaining the globe-spanning state is easy. And the challenge is part of why I like it.

The more I think about this, the more I like it, frankly. I don't think I have had this many ideas in my head at one time since I had Nate ruling an Australasian empire. There's so much that can happen. It's almost like the history could write itself once I settle on dates and locations. I feel inspired.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Walmington on Sea
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Postby Walmington on Sea » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:45 am

My latest workings on what the new Walmingtonian Empire might comprise, for your consideration.

1) Amberland seems set to be the heartland of the Empire, covering approximately the historical East Prussia (Kaliningrad, Warmian-Masurian, part of Pommeranian east of the Wisla). ((ca.2.58 million))

2)Newfoundland and Labrador ((ca.530k)) would remain (probably with Labrador being called Norbray). What if any other Canadian territories around the Gulf of St. Lawrence may join it I'm less settled on. The likes of Anticosti, Magdalen, and St. Pierre & Miquelon add little in terms of population so can come or go, but PEI, Cape Breton, and parts of the mainland are of more potential significance when it comes to history and relations with America, so this bears some discussion.

3) Ireland remains another question. My current position is that perhaps Northern Ireland should remain part of the Empire, with the supposition that some major conflict -likely during the C20th- saw The Pale finally breached and Dublin over-run by Nationalists with heavy American backing... perhaps even a blockade occasioning a stand-off in which the world wondered if Walmington's frigate-navy would really try to challenge the American cordon head-on. It probably didn't, and now we have periodic sensations as documents are declassified showing how close they came to trying. ((ca.1.9m))

4) I'm interested in maybe combining Shetland, Orkney, and the Faroes to form a mixed Celtic-Norse-Saxon kingdom of isles to serve as a homeland for WoS's 'Scottish' characters, most notably James Frazer. ((ca.95k))

5) I think that Bermuda works well as an outpost of the reduced Empire. ((ca.70k))

6) I'd like to keep/take some small island or islands in the Caribbean, but am not set on any in particular, so long as they're sufficient to constitute a Walmingtonian West Indies cricket team to take on the might of a little-bit-of-Poland-and-Russia cricket team...

7) I'd like to keep the Falklands and South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands ((ca.3k)) along with Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha ((ca.8k))

8) Off Tanzania, the Walmingtonian Spice Islands would remain ((ca.1.35m))

9) I want to find something to represent Waynesia. One possibility is the Erongo Region of Namibia, centring on Walvis Bay, having a suitable harbour along with uranium and gold mines and a sparse population as suits the Waynesia I imagine. ((ca.150k))

10) Further Baltic/Kattegat territory? I've briefly considered the possibility that the Amberlanders may have failed in their colonial endeavours without any control over sea lanes leading to, through, and from the Baltic. I think everything's currently either Gandvian or Valendian. Was that always so? How do we go about making this work, historically and presently?

11) Singapore? Too much? Too vulnerable to Dra-pol? Too damn far since the fall of Ceyloba? Perhaps part of Aceh could fill the same role (Banda, Sabang, Besar), though that may end up every bit as exposed to a future neighbour. If I took Singapore, I'd then have to decide whether or not to transfer some of the population ((approaching 5.8m)) to (an arguably under-populated) Amberland, which I think seems likely.

12) Hong Kong? The whole thing is more than I want, but perhaps without the New Territories, or -for simplicity's sake- including only HK Island ((ca.1.29m)). Not necessary, but maybe nice for a little more flavour. WoS's only success east of Singapore? If we ever have a China/Guangdong-based player from whom the territory is ceded, the Walmies may have surrendered the New Territories after the lease ended, but refused to surrender territory granted in perpetuity, because we're like that.



So far, even if I added both Singapore and part of Aceh, HK Island, and a few hundred thousand people in the Caribbean and Canada, WoS should amount to far fewer than twenty million people today. Enough to support a meaningful military industrial presence, and not so much that I feel like it's getting in the way when my activity is particularly low.



Former territories might include, as mentioned, the greater Dublin area, lost to the American-backed Irish Republic; Sri Lanka (Ceyloba), lost to Soviet India; potentially more of eastern Canada and possibly north-eastern US, lost to America (details pending discussion); potentially large parts of what now constitute mainland Soviet India and Dra-pol, lost to those nations; potentially more territory in future should Walmingtonian colonial history suit future claims.

The greater the Empire's former extent, the more I'd probably have to say that it relied on 'Ceyloban Gauls' to provide colonial policing, and on hierarchies based on defining ever more racial sub-sets amongst the citizens and subjects.


On other matters, it seems that you're putting plenty of thought into this, Chrin, so I'm happy.
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Amerique
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Postby Amerique » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:02 pm

2) I was going to drop the Dakotas and Nebraska in order to request an add of Quebec (maybe just the southern part if the whole thing would look too odd on a map). I think that could have been taken in a 19th century war with some local assistance from the French population. However, I think you should take the Maritimes wholesale or, if you prefer PEI and Cape Breton, I can take New Brunswick while Nova Scotia and PEI goes English. If you're concerned about the French aspect of history, a friend of mine is joining soon with a France of sorts. If you don't want to have taken the entirety of Northeastern North America from the 'French' in some war, then I can rework my Revolutionary War where the New England area was the English colony settled by Irish labor and Quebec was seized in a colonial war, but NY or Pennsylvania on down was part of 'France' and the Revolutionary War began in the New England colonies but soon spread to encompass the New France colonies as well, a kind of combined revolution of settler peoples against their imperial masters. Quebec may have been held by the English but taken via a successful campaign in the late 18th or early 19th century while WoS had its hands full elsewhere. Maybe parts of the Maritimes initially went American Republic but were taken back by the English with Loyalist militia help later in 1812?

3) I was still planning on Ireland having been still English-occupied but taken by the Irish Republic in some 19th century American-backed independence war (possibly the 1880s Detente War again). Could do an early 20th century war for Dublin and the Pale which sees early pre-WWI technologies used in a long city siege while the front stagnates in the north with trench warfare (more mobile in North America, likely).

6) Would you like some of my current Caribbean or South American possessions to have historically been English? Currently I'm not sure which were taken from the 'French' and Valendians and which from the English but they were seized by opportunistic American privateers at some point.

9) You should probably just take all of Namibia for Waynesia, it's not that large.

That's about it for me. To summarize, New England, NY (with maybe the New Netherland colony English and upstate French), Maritimes, Ireland formerly English, Quebec first French then English, revolution takes New England, NY and Maritimes, Maritimes lost to English later but Quebec retaken. Possibly other Caribbean Islands or Guinea formerly English?

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Chrinthanium
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Postby Chrinthanium » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:30 pm

As far as Amerique's proposal, whatever he wants to do in North America I'm fine with if it makes him happy. Also, interesting numbering.. 2,3,6,9...

As far as the Walmingtonian Empire.... I don't see why you can't have Shetland and Orkney. If you want it, take it. It's hardly any people, very little in the way of overall importance to the Chrinthani claim as it stands (except for strategic sheep purposes?), and it would give us more logical reasoning for speaking English. It also helps to add some potential interesting history between us, if you so choose. I was already going to have a divergent historical development of the Chrinthani between the South and North on Albion anyway (thanks, Romans!), so this, I think, would actually aid in this. The dividing line might not be established where this diversion is noticeable, but I'm sure I'll think of something.

As Amerique said, take all of Namibia if you choose.

Two of us running around the globe speaking English with the "real British" being based in East Prussia and some sort of Yank-Aussie-Scandinavian* combo in Great Britain should confuse enough new people for them to have to read some of our history in order to understand how AMW works before jumping in and claiming something.

Walmington, of course I'm giving this a lot of thought. I need to settle the history, culture, and whatnot once and for all and stick with it and work it out if it feels like its not right. If you're all tired of the claim jumping from my end, think how I feel when I take stock of 7 years in AMW and realize I'm still at square 1 (or 2 or 3, but not any farther than that).

Here are some things I am thinking......

*The Chrinthani will be the native inhabitants of Albion (which will be renamed later). The Romans arrive to see fair skinned, light-eyed, golden-yellow-haired peoples who are taller than the Romans on average. Not Scandinavians, as you may think, though.

Basic first real historical appearance of the Chrinthani: Julius Caesar tries to establish a province, but it doesn't work. (No need to mention that Caligula tries later, but his 200,000 soldiers instead go on a seashell hunt because Caligula) . Then Clau-Clau-Claudius arrives and carves out a Roman province south of Hadrian's Wall. This helps diverge the development of Northern Chrinthani people and Southern Chrinthani people (this will be handy in about 1700 years). There's no real record of the Chrinthani prior to Roman contact outside of maybe Irish history where even those records probably don't go much further back because who needs a system of writing, right?

What do the Chrinthani look like: Average height: 5'11" for males, 5'9" for females, generally light skinned to an olive-ish complexion, hair colors ranging the gambit, through a more definite occurrence of lighter hair and red hair than peoples from farther south, I haven't decided on freckles, but I assume it happens.

What do the Chrinthani sound like: Tough one, but I imagine an American-Australian accent with definite Australian vernacular combined with some Americanisms.. possibly all from Philadelphia (because my hometown).

Culturally, this is where Chrin usurps some things from Australia because I'll probably use that for the mass-produced Chrinthani television and movies that may/may not be popular outside. I'm certain we're influenced by California culture and American culture and Walmingtonian culture because we all speak the same language (roughly). We probably don't watch Shieldian/Gull Flagger tv because their hospital dramas make no sense to us since we can, you know, prevent things like polio these days. Guess Home and Away as well as Neighbours become huge television shows in Chrinthania.

Speaking of military kit (oh, we weren't, but okay), the UK's military kit is, at this moment, factoring into the Chrinthani military. I'm not one to hog everything and I was wondering, WoS, if you wanted to share the cost of developing this? Potentially, since I do not have Chrinthania being a nuclear power, so I want you to have the British nuclear-launch capable submarines. In particular, I'm focusing more heavily in carrier groups (I am an American) so I'm certain we can work between us on the sharing/co-production of the British military kit. If need be, Australia produces some of its own stuff in house these days and I could poach from there for subs and other escorts and just give the whole of that to you? No idea what you're plan is here.

Now, since I've been talking about this for a week almost, I'm settled on this outside of minor changes Walmington would like to make in regards to territory transitioning between us. So, I'm going to go ahead and actually start building this as a thing barring any major objections.
Last edited by Chrinthanium on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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