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AMW Big Discussion Thread

Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]

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Spyr
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Spyr » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:00 am

After months of staring hopelessly towards this particular conundrum (amongst others), I must say that it finally looks to be working out beautifully.

In terms of the Pacific War, my own preference would be to have a Japanese presence in Spyr dating from 1931-32, seeing Japanese troops and aid flowing up out of Dra-pol to back puppet Spyran warlords and engage in development of industry and resources ala RL Manchukuo, until Spyran popular resistance becomes too much to take and they are forced to withdraw in 1945.

Japan being an overtly Christian state does seem to make it likely that the Spyran anti-imperial struggle will, much as its Drapoel counterpart, also be an anti-Christian struggle, which would have significant consequences on relations if Q is still around.

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Skeelzania
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Skeelzania » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:24 pm

I have some ideas concerning the internal state of Kirishitan Nippon, but as I'm somewhat pressed for time today at work I'm keeping this post focused on the historical. All I'll say right now about KN right now is that I do plan on making them something of a democracy, while still an theocratic Empire. I plan to adopt the Meiji Constitution Japan used before OTL WW2, but if it turns out that AMW's KN lost decisively as well, then maybe that is where the democratic impulse would come from.

I like the proposed history thus far, Dra-pol and Spyr. For simplicity's sake I would like to keep Japanese motivations and capabilites more or less the same as in the OTL, so how history went in AMW's 20th Century would largely be in the hands of the established players reacting to a 'predictable' Japan. Hopefully this will facilitate any rewrites and retcons that may be necessary.

During the brief time period where Christians were active in OTL Japan, they didn't exhibit behavior notably different from their Shinto and Buddhist counterparts. They participated in local conflicts and the invasions of Korea (Drapol), evidentally with the same degrees of enthusiasm. I plan to extend this trend towards an evangelical, chuavinistic Japan that definately sees itself as apart (and above) from mainland Asia.

As such their expansion in the 20th Century may even have been somewhat less than it was historically, i.e. the expenditure of resources on proselytizing when the historical Japanese were content to set up puppet states and then plow further inland. I don't know what the situation with AMW's Mainland China is, but my guess is that if it has been occupied by a strong state into the C20, the Japanese would have directed more attention elsewhere (such as Drapol and Spyr, and also into the South Pacific). Again, how this plays out is in the hands of the players whose histories put them in the position of having to deal with such expansionism.

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Beth Gellert
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Beth Gellert » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:05 pm

It's all looking interesting again, eh.

Minor aside I've just noticed in Dra-pol's history, when the Geletians turned on the Nazis in WWII, at the moment it wouldn't be Austria they stormed into, as I don't think Austria exists ;) Otherwise fine by me.

I notice that, unfortunately, the account 'AMW China' ceased to exist just the other day, so at the moment there's kinda no such thing as China, either. Spyr's the closest thing we have to a China, and the rest may end up being split into half a dozen totally unrelated nations for all we know.

Of course we could give a part of RL China to Kirishitan Nippon, so that China does exist in our reality even if nobody ever plays an independent China. I'm saying 'China' a lot, hey? Anyway, it may be a very small China that'd exist under KN occupation, but it'd allow us to talk about C... that country whether someone plays a Chinese state or not. If someone does, it wouldn't be a problem, as China would just become a nation divided by Japanese occupation, just like Dra-pol. But that's just a confusing idea half expressed at 2am.
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Gurguvungunit
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Gurguvungunit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:50 pm

Chinachinachinachina.

AMW China has been in and out (mostly out) for a long time, and while I think we'd all love to have him around, I don't think we should predicate anything on his presence. Following everyone else, I'm going to say that Skeelzania's proposal looks excellent, and I'd be willing to work with him on creating a WWII history that may or may not include Quinn. At this point, I think someone should contact him (I suppose I could, seeing as we're friends on facebook) to see whether or not he's still planning to be a part of AMW. If so, there we go. If not, we should formally open the US up to takers, and encourage people to break the nation up into parts so as to counteract the tendency toward large superpowers. Admittedly, this sounds terribly self-serving coming from the guy playing an agglomeration of ex-colonies and anglosphere members, but eh.

With a very Christian Japan, a very Christian Imperial Russia and (possibly) a Lutheran United States and a Catholic Russia, it seems that Christianity has rather outdone secularism in AMW. An interesting observation, and one that I think could explain Britain's determined secularism. If the European front in WWII was resolved relatively quickly, Japan would become the primary adversary during the war. Immediately afterward, Orthodox Russia opposed Britain (and maybe Quinntonia) during a Cold War for dominance in Eurasia which lasted for several decades. Especially without the United States, it seems rational to say that Britain would become highly polarized against state religions, perhaps going so far as to disestablish the Anglican Church. Currently, Britain has a fairly nonreligious population, so I imagine that if two Christian nations came to be seen as long-term enemies of the British Empire, that population could turn anti-religious in much the way that I've RPed British political and popular thought.

This is not to say that after a cease-fire, a democratic Christian Japan might not have become an ally of Britain, but it probably wouldn't be as clearly associated as OTL Japan is with NATO. Indeed, depending upon the outcome of the war, Britain could have negotiated the cease-fire to leave Japan with most of its territory and remaining military intact, but demanded a sort of "oversight" role in government. It really depends, I suppose, on whether Quinn is still with us, or if I had to win WWII on my own.

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Spyr
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Spyr » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:53 pm

If the absence of China becomes a major issue, I could always have Spyr expand somewhat to fill the gap, but as that risks yet more trouble with 'superpower' states', hopefully we'll either see a return of AMW_China or the arrival of a new player or two (or more) who will have an interest in the area.

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Kievskaya Rus
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Kievskaya Rus » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:52 pm

Could you just pick up and move spyr? and, you know, maybe give me back Manchuria.

I've talked our Mr. Rome the other day and he's still got plans to continue, he in just busy with a short term at school and wedding plans.

Mr. Rome, welcome to the league of extraordinarily sexually active gentlemen.

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Beth Gellert
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Beth Gellert » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:23 am

Kievskaya Rus wrote:Could you just pick up and move spyr? and, you know, maybe give me back Manchuria.


I'm sure you'd regret that the minute a million Drapoel troops came screaming across your previously sane frontier ;)
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Somewhereistonia
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Somewhereistonia » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:28 am

Kievskaya Rus wrote:Could you just pick up and move spyr? and, you know, maybe give me back Manchuria.

I've talked our Mr. Rome the other day and he's still got plans to continue, he in just busy with a short term at school and wedding plans.


Just wondering, would 'Mr. Rome' consider having Spain rebel, allowing Mac to claim it? This could also explain why it would be libertarian (as a backlash against the feudal Rome). This would help create more small nations and the rp would generate a lot of interest, as NATO (which now exists I think - with Gurg leading?) would want it to join and Kiev would want to assist its ally.

Regarding Manchuria, Spyr helps make Dra-pol work I think (being the closest thing to an ally) so a border between the two makes sense. KR is very large already, so an extension wouldn't help with any RP really IMO.

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Quinntonian Dra-pol
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Quinntonian Dra-pol » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:46 am

I am very interested in continuing.

I, for one, was having a lot of fun being hopelessly arrogant and beligerant during the reboot. I was involved in several threads that were going along swimmingly, but when Dra-pol blew up on the regional board, all the wind pretty much went out of my sails. I was just kind of disheartened, I had thought that what I was doing was fun, and interesting, but all anyone else seemed to see was George W's America. I would like to continue to try to work something out, whatever is decided.

But yeah, let's talk about it. What would be expected of me? If I did some things wrong, what are some suggestions for improvement? And, do we have enough interest to continue on a global scale?

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Somewhereistonia
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Somewhereistonia » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:08 pm

Quinntonian Dra-pol wrote:But yeah, let's talk about it. What would be expected of me? If I did some things wrong, what are some suggestions for improvement? And, do we have enough interest to continue on a global scale?


Seeing how this thread is doing, things seem to be able to go along on a global scale.

Quinntonia may have differing institutions from the USA but its foreign relations are practically identical. Perhaps we need to rethink global alliances to change this. Basically, whilst USQ remains on some reasonable terms with Gurg, Cass and me they start to become more distant, perhaps this could tie in with the potential Spanish rebellion and Japan, with USQ supporting Japan whilst the rest of NATO moves towards Spyr and Macabees.

So main groupings:

Feudalists: KR, Rome (-Spain?)
Christian Democrats: USQ, Japan (some relations to Europe)
Democratic Europe: Britain, Cassanos, Germany, Baltic Federation, Spain?
Allies of Europe: Spyr (strained relationship?), India
Other groups: Crooked Beat's Iran, BG, Dra-pol (linked to Spyr), african nations?, Moorish Portugal, Gupta dynasty

Have I missed anyone? Basically this split with USQ would help keep things exciting as any war in Europe would be a closer affair. Quinntonia could also become more actively Christian globally, and it allows USQ to potentially go to either side (either going with christians or democrats).
Last edited by Somewhereistonia on Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Beth Gellert
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Beth Gellert » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:20 pm

I think it looks like we do indeed have enough interest to keep AMW going, and a lot of problems may have been solved now that this Christian Japan has been proposed by an apparently experienced NSer who may actually stick around for a while.

I also think it is worth noting, though, that currently we have only one player in the Americas, and he has control of the largest and richest nation on the globe. You do seem a bit isolated with the current limited player base we have. I could well be wrong, but I imagine seeing Canada and the US united under one militant theocratic superpower with more than a hundred million people over the next largest nation (poor and perhaps internally troubled India aside), the strongest existing economy, and no enemies capable of touching it (where everyone else seems to have major challengers on their borders, and usually on more than one border) is a bit intimidating to anyone who wants to become your American neighbour.

That doesn't read quite how I intended, hm. Well, I was going to say that perhaps we have something of an anti-superpower consensus building, too. China's partly chopped up already, there's talk of having Mac in Spain once more, India may be looking at something like a civil war, Russia's doing without its Pacific ports, and so on. I dunno if it's out of line to suggest it, but I wonder what you'd think of making Quinntonia out of the US and Canada by using some rather than all of their states/provinces? At the moment, even if someone claimed the whole of Central America, you'd still have them outnumbered well over 2:1. At the moment it looks like we may need some things to explain how Japan could come out of the Second World War with a fair degree of its imperial power intact, and obviously Quinntonia as we know it seems likely to win quite convincingly. Unless perhaps Japan's Christianity tempered Washington's sword? Maybe even due to a Quinntonian role in Christianising Japan in the first place?

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Kievskaya Rus
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Kievskaya Rus » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:23 pm

I really don't like the Idea of chopping up Rome and here is why.
First, he's done an awful lot of work on his factbook and we're asking him to rewrite massive parts of it for a new claim to be in Europe when we still have open European countries. By misunderstanding I had the baltics taken from my claim and let me tell you it really bugged me, I would have faught hard to keep the Baltic states except that somewhereguy had done a huge factbook and I just couldn't bring my self to turn down a claim with so much work done. It's not fair to Rome to take back an claim agreed upon a year ago.
Secondly, he's already set up Greece as the supposed rebel state and someday that rebelliousness could one day make a great plot in a conflict with BG, if he didn't have Spain that would be a hung major blow to his stability.
Third, There are big areas of the world that are very empty and we should be cautious about putting to many eggs in one basket with Europe. Only having two active east asian folks plus my self has virtually kept any RP from happening in east asia. I really hope japan is going to work out, maybe another asian nation or african nation would be better for the game.
Fourth, I've signed a treaty with Rome that binds my Empire to defend his borders, so in character I can't let this happen. :P

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Gurguvungunit
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Gurguvungunit » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:02 pm

Much as I'd like Mac in Spain, and much as I dislike the Roman Empire as a holdover from the old AMW, and much as I (hypocritically) dislike the trend toward empires, I think we might have to just respect Vecron's claim on precedent unless he's willing (which I hope he is) to part with Spain.

I've also been mulling over a split in US/UK relations, since they seem increasingly to not make sense. Now, I understand that from your perspective, the USQ is a significant departure from the OTL United States, but you really do play as George Bush's United States, or maybe even a more abrasive one. Now, that isn't a problem (as long as you're okay with US/UK relations cooling, like I've said) but it does mean that you're very much like the real United States. One thought regarding Canada; I've been tempted to sort of tinker with internal Canadian politics, if you're game, and try to set something up in character whereby Canada becomes sort of a loosely associated state with connections to both Washington and Britain, sort of like in reality but with perhaps a clearer split between "Washington Canadians" and "London Canadians"... and maybe even a few "Ottawa Canadians". Because, you know, Canada likes to think it's a real country. :p

As per our relations, I think it might be interesting to see a bit of a split in the Western Alliance. At the moment, it's fair to say that NATO can take the fascist Europeans easily, don't you think? I mean, not to slight Vecron/Kiev, but if Germany took responsibility for dealing with Rome and Quinn fought Kiev, it seems to me that it leaves Britain free to support whoever was having difficulty with their war, leading to a two-on-one fight. The Progressives, of course, aren't really a threat now that Beth Gellert's been reduced from Indian superpower to Central European local power, and Spyr's declared a dedication to the overlapping-consensus theory of international relations.

That was sort of a long-winded way of saying that I think it would be interesting to set up a conflict, already sort of brewing, between the King administration and the Strathairn government. While I think both of us would swallow our pride enough to sign the NATO charter, I expect a lot of wrangling to occur at Bermuda (which I would like to finish) and a resulting degree of bad blood. It could lead to some interesting storylines, at least, whereby a liberal (read: libertarian) Britain cozies up to a leftist Spyr, perhaps through some sort of free trade agreement? If Spyr levies protections like many socially liberal governments do, maybe we could discuss reducing some of them? Additionally, if Quinn is looking for suggestions: It may be worth getting rid of either Canada or the Western United States, perhaps along the lines that Beej suggested. Perhaps you could have a country that didn't include the west-of-the-Rockies US/Canada, or maybe even draw your borders along the Great Plains. That leaves you with most of your industry (which in the RL US has historically been in the Old Northeast, though some of it has migrated to California) and a fair bit of the population. By the same token however, the West Coast is a respectable powerhouse in its own right, and is quite leftist compared to the rest of the country. Perhaps it makes sense to open it up for someone else to claim?

I know that leaves a rather large hole in your planned spot, but it would have the advantage of doing a couple of things. First, it would cut Quinntonia down a little, while still preserving it as one of the "Big Five" nations. Second, it would open up new, extremely respectable claims on the American continent. Third, you've never really talked about the Western US (it's a LOT more leftist, and largely Unitarian Universalist/liberal Catholic/Atheist-Agnostic, at least culturally), and fourth it would explain how Japan made out of World War Two with much of its power intact. If the USQ had to make use of the Panama Canal to cross into the Pacific, Quinntonian fleets would have been much harder-pressed to accomplish their destruction of the IJN and subsequent island-hopping. Indeed, it's worth wondering to what degree the Pacific would even be a factor for the United States, making things more about Britain, the Netherlands (maybe?) and Free France trying to defend Australia, India, Indochina and the East Indies. I can imagine that as a result, Japan would have been defeated by the Royal and French Navies, but would have never faced the same threat of impending invasion. I mean, Britain might have pulled off a similar fleet action to Midway and then recaptured some of the Marianas, maybe even Okinawa, but I don't think there would have been the same sense that Japan would have to be invaded. There would easily be a negotiated peace between whatever government succeeded Tojo and the Churchill government. That's not to say that a Quinntonian fleet might not have played a real, significant role. After all, I'd hate to deprive Spruance of his Leyte Gulf and Philippine Sea battles, but I doubt we'd have seen Midway by the United States. I'm having lots of fun coming up with counterfactuals, at any rate...

I dunno. What do you all think?
Last edited by Gurguvungunit on Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CCA1
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby CCA1 » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:14 am

Hello people, Tias* here! I'm dreadfully sorry I up and left on you without a word, but I lost my home and have been on the street (so to speak) for the last one and a half years. Combined with a lot of other problems in real life I lost all heart and time for roleplaying online, and I don't think I'll play here any more, at least until I get a home and an internet connections. I have this small nation that I can play without commitments in general NS, but I want you to know that I had the blast of my NS life in AMW, and if you need anything written up, characters, political ideas or whatever, that does not require me to commit to a nation, I'm here for you. How is AMW doing these days?

* African Commonwealth and Neo-Anarchos, for those new or forgetful.

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Beth Gellert
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Beth Gellert » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:29 am

Good to hear from you, Tias, even if it's not good news, I suppose. I hope things work out okay, and I'm sure everyone would be glad to have you back any time, mate.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Right, well, I think it best if we aren't too long before making some progress here, if we want potential new members to maintain much interest in what we've got to offer.

I updated the not-very-official-working-map again, at the moment showing the USQ at its full extent (wait, did I remember Hawaii? Is it even on that map? Well, eh, who cares!), likewise Rome, and our prospective Japan in control of southern Dra-pol and the Hamhung enclave (which is barely visible, but whatever), just so we can keep a visual on what's what.

Personally I would like to see the USQ's borders contracted a little, and would prefer a bit more space in Europe at Rome's expense, but it's not really up to me, and I don't know what we're proposing to do about the extent of Japan's empire, but perhaps that's still up in the air until we know more about Quinntonia's role in the Pacific War. We don't want to create another over-sized power, I'm sure, but beyond that...

I've been talking to Al Khals/Costa Paz, who said almost a year ago that 'some day' one of those nations would be back when he hadn't other RP thangs on the go, about the possibility of his creating a partial counterweight to the USQ in the Americas regardless of whether Q maintains full strength so to speak, but thus far indecision reigns. He was going to launch Costa Paz in 'mainstream' NS, but is now hesitating in contemplation of its potential in a rejuvinated AMW. No promises there.

Maybe we should take account of what RPs people wish to carry-over in whole or part from the old forums. I think I'm more or less dropping what little I'd got involved in since the reboot, and waiting to see how this new start looks on fresh forums.
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Gurguvungunit
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Gurguvungunit » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:55 am

I'm in favor of hanging on to the NATO negotiations thread, although it'll probably have to lose the related sidestory of the African incidents. Now, to be clear, I want to continue NATO not to clearly delineate alliances, but rather to begin showing the tension between the United States and the British Empire (which, I think, that thread does pretty well). That's really it; other than that Britain hasn't engaged in much RP to date, and what little it has done has been broken up by time and activity to the degree that I'm not too attached to it.

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Kievskaya Rus
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Kievskaya Rus » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:32 am

I think I speak for Rome when I say that we'd like to keep the royal conference and two kingdoms alliance.
I'd also like to keep the Baltic crisis as I think it sets up somewherestonia to an interesting place of being small nation who sits as a fulcrum between two NATO and the Kingdoms. I like having a border nation who I'm not afraid of them but am afraid of their friends.

To talk about the future, BG, I'm really interested the potential for Moldova. If you want I'd be happy to stir up the pot and see where things go.

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Tiurabo
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Tiurabo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:35 am

Hi there. I'm interested in playing, and since you guys are calling for more members I'm happy to oblige. My nation controls the better part of east Texas usually, with a shaky kind of, 'we own this, but you can live here,' claim on parts of the South and northern Mexico. I'm very flexible on where my territory is, and would actually prefer playing as a very small sort of conclave state on the edges of America. As long as I keep part of central Texas at least...

As for writing, I've been told I'm very good, but I don't do long winded posting. Just not in me. What do y'all think?

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Kievskaya Rus
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Kievskaya Rus » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:54 am

Well, that could be problematic. Currently the USA is claimed by one of our founding members. There has been some suggestion from the community that he reduce his claim so as to not be the #1 supper power who could take on the next two largest nations but I'm willing to be that this claim will remain as is.
What you could do is see how empty the world is, drop your nation somewhere else and make up a basic outline for us to considder. You should stick with real world geography of an unclaimed patch of earth and use the real world population and keep in mind real world GDP and available resources. But the feel free to totally change the culture, ethnic groups, religion and name of the area. You could take pakistan and call it "Don't-mess-with-Texas-land".

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Tiurabo
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Tiurabo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:01 pm

But... I like Texas.

Anyway, that's partially the reason I wanted to claim a small part of his territory, since you guys are wanting him to downsize. As I said, I'm okay with pretty much anything, but I'm not so hot on things like nation management or resources and things like that. Partially, that's why I'm joining up, since I've never actually seen a community here that actively deals with the nation itself, that I would want to join. Anyway, let's wait for Mister America to respond until we decide on whether or not I get my beauiful home-state.

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Somewhereistonia
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Somewhereistonia » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:55 pm

I don't see any need to retcon the threads except the SoA (with Talost seemingly leaving). The other African nations haven't really got anywhere yet. Obviously the addition of Japan means some history will need editing but it won't directly affect any of the rp we have done (at least recently).

Obviously and claim for Spain and Texas will have to be agreed to by the country losing the land. If the USQ was to be split up, then Texas wouldn't be a major loss, whilst a new nation to the south will boost rp.

Part of the problem with AMW is that there can only be proxy wars (but with few opportunities to do so), with the large nations standing off each other, something which is very limiting to small nations. Either we need to split some of the big nations up a bit, or we need to add an unpredictable power into the mix to destabilise things and blur the defined groups.
Last edited by Somewhereistonia on Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiurabo
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Tiurabo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:16 pm

How about some sort of Cold War? I don't mean that happy-go-lucky time when the Reds and the Capatalist dogs were at odds. I'm talking about the one international relationship that can still destroy the world, melodramatically speaking. Why not have two (or more) of the bigger nations eyeing eachother coldly across fields of soldiers and massive weaponry and missiles and trucks, jet engines, whooosh... *gaspgasppant*

Got carried away there, but the idea is the same no matter had bored I am.

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Somewhereistonia
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Somewhereistonia » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:30 pm

Tiurabo wrote:How about some sort of Cold War?


What we have currently is a cold war between Feudalists (Russia* and Roman empire) and Capitalists (USA* and most of Europe) supported loosely by communists whilst other communists sit by themselves.

*RL names used for explanation.

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CCA1
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby CCA1 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:53 am

Is it possible to find a directory of AMW threads now a days?

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Gurguvungunit
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Re: AMW Big Discussion Thread

Postby Gurguvungunit » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:03 am

The most up to date one is on the offsite forums here, but since we've dropped off in activity I haven't bothered to update it.

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