AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Hibernordia]

Now, about the borders, there's a reason I chose the Ebro river because it's a pretty much straightforward border; to the north of the Ebro are the regions of Catalonia, Navarre, Basque country plus half of Aragon. I know that the Ebro has a lot of tributaries that are also considered part of the river itself, but by considering those regions as part of the "north" of the Ebro, we can keep things simple.

Like you, I also use a river border, but most of the borders of the municipalities of Brazil follow the rivers. But the territorial organization of Spain and its provinces don't follow natural boundaries, as it was based on the French system of départements. Zaragoza (the city and the province), for instance, is bisected in half by the river, and parts of Catalonia and Navarre are located south of it. Most of Cantabria is actually north of the Ebro, so I edited the claims map to give it to you. But if you two have reached a settlement on who owns what, we'll try reflect it on the map.

Oh, and Saratov, was there a decision?

That was what we were asking. If nobody objects, we can have it filled with your color on the next map update.

[Kavoso]

I have no problems with Saratov, take it if you need it. Though the issue of who it belonged to should have been worked out a long time ago, in my opinion, as to avoid this muddle.

[Iansisle]

I'm glad to see that we're finally getting a chance to hash this out a bit. J&H, don't worry about your finals -- this certainly isn't time sensitive, it just happened to pop into my head yesterday while I was actually near a computer. From the Gallagan perspective, the Depkazis -- brothers in faith and blood -- seem a much more desirable partner going forward than the polytheist Greeks. However, there are doubtlessly many, especially around the border regions, who after decades of fighting with the Shieldians are willing to mostly keep their heads down and accept Greek money and shelter. There are also many who are indignant at another foreign, infidel power moving in just when they had thrown off the Shieldians and are taking to the hills, fighting an irregular war against the Byzantines. They know that the Depkazis are probably little more selfless in their intervention, but are willing to believe that their goals in the country are at least somewhat aligned.

Up in Hajji Tarkhan, I'm willing to leave most of the events up to Depkazia, being that the government is being run by some of his characters. The Republic is not willing to press the issue too hard and is more occupied right now with Thortraia and Editraequan in the west. Gull Flag forces in the region are mostly defensive in nature. The exact border is a little fuzzy, as I imagine that the Hajji Tarkhan Sovyet doesn't have full control over the hinterland. The Republic's biggest interest in the future of Gallaga is that opium production is restarted in the south-west for their pharmacies; it's likely that they consider either an independent state or Depkazia as the best solution for that problem, although they are willing to work with the Byzantines if needed.

On infrastructure in Gallaga, it is likely that the south is primarily dominated by a north-south road connecting it back to the Shield and roads into the hinterland connecting the port of Nusheld to the opium production area around it. Likely an east-west road of some significance connects Nusheld to Boodor eventually to St. Peter on the Caspian. The north of the country likely has better infrastructure and a more developed road network, both due to easier terrain and geographical proximity to the empire's core regions.

[Europe - Prussia]

Believe it or not, I actually have the population figures that Kyle worked up for us from the Spanish census people. Once I get home from work, I can go ahead and I'll bring that information out and post it so that you know. He got really specific so I'm just going to paste what he said. No need for us to give away population that's rightfully hours and set a dangerous precedent for future claimants in the future. Everything else, looks good to me. We also need to work on our shared mutual history so that we both know where were coming from. But I'm not up to that part of my history so I will get back to you

That looks good to me. About population figures, well if you have some numbers we could use them. It could be easy to simply cut in half the population of Aragon and each one of us get one half IMO, seeing that's the territory that is literally being cut in half by the Ebro; Vasque country and Navarre are completely in the north, while only a small piece of Catalonia is in the south. About history, yeah we need to work out that; do you want to keep it through TG or keep the working things out here?

[Chrinthania]

That looks good to me. About population figures, well if you have some numbers we could use them. It could be easy to simply cut in half the population of Aragon and each one of us get one half IMO, seeing that's the territory that is literally being cut in half by the Ebro; Vasque country and Navarre are completely in the north, while only a small piece of Catalonia is in the south. About history, yeah we need to work out that; do you want to keep it through TG or keep the working things out here?

To quote Kyle, "so, all in all *drum all*, E-P has 74,472 sq km of northern Spain with 11,975,178 people."

He got extremely specific as to what areas were in the claim, but, unless we're going to RP some sort of border issue, it's probably best to not rehash all of that here for sake of sanity (because it's a tad confusing). E-P, you also have the Balearic Islands, which have a population of 1,106,049 and account for 220 sq km of area (Source: Wikipedia). All told, then, you have a total area of Spain of 74,712 sq km and a total population from Spain of 13,081,227.

Now, if we go your route, which is that your portion of Spain contains the Regions of Navarre, Basque Country, most of Catalonia and half of Aragon, then we're good also. It would allow for easier population totaling now and in the future. So, in all this prattle about Spain, I prefer EP's idea of him getting all of Navarre, Basque Country, and Catalonia's population and splitting Aragon's population right in half. Add into that your claim in the Balearic Islands, and that would give you 12,086,270 people in your portion of Spain. Of course, according to Wikipedia, Aragon being split in half population-wise present the problem of an odd number. Oh well, take that 1 person also, so we don't have to pull a Solomon on him and cut him in half. So your final total, under your plan, would give you 13,081,228 people from Spain. It's very agreeable to me, so I'm siding with EP's idea here. That and I don't mind having that extra roughly 1 million people this way >.>

As far as history goes, I suppose we should really hash that out as well. The main concern at the present, for me anyway, was Julius Caesar and his conquest of Gaul. If that's fine for you, then the rest can be handled as needed. Of course, any ideas that you may have towards our shared history are always appreciated! And we should sort it out here in the Discussion thread. This way everyone can see it and know what happened.

So, Kyle, what does this mean for you? Well, the Western Roman Empire contains the following: Portugal minus the Azores, Spain south of the Ebro River minus the Balearic Island (which are Valendian) and minus the enclaves of Melillia and Cueta (which are Walmingtonian), Italy from E-R & Tuscany southward (including Sardinia), Malta, Gibraltar, Vatican City, and San Marino.

Now, for the moment, I'm off to recalculate my national population and square area!

[Lusaka]

(Moving over from the applications thread)

So, Lusaka's return is looking like being in Rwanda and Burundi, with the nation divided in two along those lines, something akin to the old Lusaka existing in one part, and a rival authority in the other.

I think that Burundi, to the south, slightly the smaller and more resource-poor of the two (it may not actually be all that resource poor, but RL instability and under-development seem to have hampered exploration) will be the part under the leadership of Derek 'Papa Africa' Igomo. We don't want to make it too easy for the big man, after all, and this way he can still be born on the shores of Lake Tanganyika, as was ever the case.

I need to work out exactly what is the divide between the two authorities, and that'll help to shape the northern half. Comments and suggestions encouraged on this point.

What I'm currently imagining is the south being visited by missionaries some time during the age of exploration. By default it seems that these would be Godfreyites, as a lot of Lusakan characters (most of the pre-existing ones will be assigned to the south, and I'll create new ones for the north) have clearly Anglophone Christian names. I wondered if Shieldians would be a theoretical alternative, because missionary work doesn't necessarily require an empire with an intercontinental outlook or even state involvement at all, but I think things get a bit complicated if it's Mr. Derek's lot who are Catholics. Is there any scope for a Mover preacher in the late 1800s trying to get a foothold for his new sect beyond the repressive Shield, and ending up in Central Africa, bending the ear of a king on the shores of Tanganyika?

Derek the Mover? Hmm.

That option may well explain why/how the area became Protestant without being out-right annexed by Walmington. The English might have felt that the 'civilising mission' was already under-way and there was no need to get all bayonetty about it. The south, small, remote, and already Christian, could have remained independent even during the height of the European colonial age.

Then the northern part of Lusaka would probably have to end up either Catholic, or at least influenced by a non-Angolophone imperial power. Possibly one that later tried to annex the south as well, but failed Battle of Adwa style in the face of a surprisingly organised southern kingdom perhaps supplied with European firearms and/or mercenary or missionary soldiers through its Protestant contacts.

Maybe someone who doesn't have a big colonial empire? They gave it a try, managed to take (Rwanda) (when the coastal countries are claimed we can work out how they were allowed through easily enough, I imagine), and then lost to a predominantly black African army, reinforcing Lusakan identity and wrecking their own prestige and confidence. They then managed to put down a (Rwandan) revolt inspired by the (Burundian) victory, only to eventually decolonise in the mid or late twentieth century, leaving behind a Catholic or at least non-Anglophone successor government that they may still support against Derek's attempts to reunify the Lusakan peoples.

I suppose I can keep spinning ideas forever without coming to a conclusion if I don't let someone else chip in...

[Amerique]

As far as getting coastal territory, we could always see if either Nilosahara or Larkinia are still interested in holding all their territory, which would make it easier for Lusaka.

[The Crooked Beat]

Three cheers for the return of Lusaka!

Naturally, any of Lusaka's proposals has my approval, for what it matters, and this one in particular looks very promising.

One possible concern, however, might have to do with territory. According to our most recent claims map, Rwanda and Burundi are still part of Nilosahara, while, without a coastline, the prospective nation's ability to interact with the wider world would seem to be curtailed. Is there any scope for Lusaka to be relocated to Africa's Atlantic coast, or somewhere accessible via one of the continent's major rivers?

Also, if you need a small-scale, Catholic, non-anglophone colonial power, I'd be happy to volunteer Gandvik, and not only because I like the idea of a Finnish-speaking African nation! Colonies are something that Gandvik would definitely have tried half-heartedly to acquire at some point, if none too efficiently, but there are of course plenty of other candidates.

In any event, this proposal looks excellent, and I am eager to see how things unfold.

[Walmington on Sea]

Well, Nilosahara's account died of inactivity last month, and hadn't posted in or out of character in more than half a year. I think it's reasonable to assume that one risks losing part of one's territory in such a situation.

As ever, Walmingtonian missionaries, do-gooders, capitalists, and imperialists do indeed remain available as cover in the event of more original ideas failing. There's a Maxim gun and a stack of King Godfrey's Bibles in the conservatory if anybody needs them.

[Iansisle]

Ah, the Movers, eh? I suppose they're a possibility, although I'm worried about the timelines syncing up exactly. The Free Movement was largely important in the years 1900-1940, with the 1920s and 1930s being it height of power on the Shield (well, until the revolution of course!). I've no doubt that those who could get out of the Empire* would love to spread the gospel -- of course, in that same period, the Shield was actually a mildly open environment, excepting those parts directly under the control of the church. Officially, the Movers were not tolerated, but before the Great War they were not repressed either and de facto allowed to practice openly. The true repression, and I think the time period of greatest external missionary work, would have probably been directly after the Great War, as the Inquisition moved in to crack down on protestant and druidic practices. Whether or not you want to wait that long are up to you.

And, of course, there's an exception to everything. Sure, most of the Movers might have been content to stay in Weshield in the 1890s, but that's not to say that someone didn't head off to Africa. Just remember that throughout the late 19th century, emigration from the Shield was officially suppressed. The imperial government had worries about a brain-drain which was the cause of the perceived national decline. (I've been meaning to write more about this subject; so far, all I have are various references to people like Ernie Bankfield 'defecting.') The educated and wealthy had more to worry about from these regulations than the poor, and it's also possible that the imperial government was more than willing to let a breakaway sect of these troublesome protestants go seek malaria in darkest Africa.

As for the claim itself, I'm sad to say that even I'm starting to think Larkinia might be gone. I'll keep my fingers crossed there, but I shouldn't think you'd be out of line pilfering from his claim as well.

WoS, regarding Decisions: yes, I am 100% sure I screwed up that map. I was most eager to get the Gull Flag and Gandvian borders correct(ish) and sort of rushed the rest based on half-remembered lines. I'm also pretty sure that I wandered off the Vistula in the Nibelunc border and I can't remember which Ukrainian oblasts the Jave has. I promise the next one will be ...well, I can't say "correct" but at least less incorrect!

Also, yay 700 posts!

[Chrinthania]

Well, there have been discussions in the past as to Nilosahara. Fact of the matter is that it is the belief of several members that Nilosahara finally be removed from the map, thus freeing up that entire area. So, whatever territory Lusaka wants, Lusaka can have. As far as Larkinia, well, no idea as to the current status of that claim at the moment.

[The Amyclae]

There was a one post thread about the death of Nilosahara not too long ago...

[Chrinthania]

Back in April of 2012 (that would be this year). Since then, Nilo has been CTEd several times, revived several times and, currently, remains CTEd. Because of Nilo's tenure, I've never really worried about it, opting to leave our friend on the map. But, if we've a potential member wanting part or all of that territory, then I'd say it's fair game for Lusaka.

[Lusaka]

Oh, stop giving me options! I've had time enough to come up with far too many ideas that could fit into any number of circumstances and locations. Lusaka is fairly malleable when it comes to geography, as the characters and the stories can go just about anywhere in sub-Saharan Africa.

I had considered an 'African superpower', in continental rather than global sense, with Mr. Derek really taking on his role as 'Papa Africa', but that sort of died when I realised how few African nations we have. In fact it looks like the only independent African nation still active is Eurasian-facing, and recently beaten down rather resoundingly by the west.

I think that I still like the Rwanda-Burundi locale, but I would worry a bit about it being too ignorable. I don't mind the prospective Lusakas being minor players on the world stage, having no force projection ability and minimal diplomatic clout, but I wouldn't want it to become impossible to get anyone to RP in/with the Lusakas at all.


The final location that seems worth contemplating is in West Africa (though I'm not quite sure whether the Lusakan name feels quite right there, I suppose I should remember this is AMW, not reality). I had thought about combining a few nations west of Nigeria in anticipation of someone eventually snapping up that highly populace and oil-rich real estate, but I think I might just settle on something a little less ambitious: a Lusaka running from Senegal in the north-west to Sierra Leone in the south-east, leaving Nilosahara and Larkinia alone, just in case.

The northern portion would comprise Senegal, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, and the Kayes region of Mali for a total of about 18.4 million people, while the south, under Derek Igomo et al, would incorporate Guinea, Libera, and Sierra Leone, for a total of >20.25 million people (circa 38.7 million all told).

If Gandvik serves as a colonial power, perhaps their half-heartedness in some way informs the divide between north and south.
Similar to earlier described, I'm imagining an organised iron-age Lusakan kingdom dominating the region in the early-modern period (possibly emerging from the defensive refuge of the Sierra Leonean forest), with semi-independent vassal states populated by related ethnic groups speaking dialects to some degree mutually intelligible, when explorers such as the Walmingtonians arrive and begin trading guns for gold and perhaps slaves et cetera. At most maybe they build a few forts at useful harbours, but don't colonise the area, and perhaps a minimal degree of Protestant influence is felt culturally in some cities. Later, the Walmingtonians become more interested in their other colonies, and don't invest the resources necessary to over-power the Lusakans.
Gandvik then comes along late in the game looking for remaining pre-industrial societies to exploit. Perhaps the difficulty they encounter in defeating the Lusakan Empire with its disciplined regiments, iron weapons, and imported muskets plays its part in the failure of Gandvik to pursue further colonies. At considerable cost, the Gandvians do eventually prevail, but their control of the southern rainforests and highlands is never total, and they focus more on the port of (Dakar), the navigable portions of the Senegal and Gambia rivers, and the open Sahel of the north where their superior firepower is decisive.
In the early 1900s, there is near de facto independence in much of the south, though internationally recognised as Gandvian territory, and some Movers come along to do missionary work, probably very much against the wishes of Riga, which struggles to stop them. A punitive expedition into the south result in some humiliating military disaster after Movers smuggle Walmingtonian weapons to the Lusakan rebels (and the defeat of Catholic Gandvik by Protestant Lusakans aided by the missionaries provides great Mover propaganda back on the Shield), and the south becomes a genuine self-governing polity. The north continues under Gandvian rule until... the Great War? The aftermath of the Great War?

Today there's the secular/majority-Protestant multi-lingual one-party African Socialist south lead by Derek, probably on good terms with the likes of the Gulls and Arabian revolutionaries, and the capitalist sham democracy majority Catholic Finnish/Niger-Congo speaking north, probably on good terms with the likes of the Arabian kingdom, pre-war Areopagitican, and Canaan.

What do you think?

[Chrinthania]

Lusaka, since my shifting to a Western Roman Empire, just an fyi, i've left the Catholic Church pretty much alone to do its own thing. So, not only to avoid severely misrepresenting the Catholic Church, or RPing it in a shoddy manner, whatever you need fom Rome in that aspect, you can have as it pertains to your history.

[Iansisle]

Ah, yes, that all sounds pretty good to me. Poking at the Ganders' tail would certainly make the Movers more popular on the Shield, and especially in northern Weshield where the movement was based. It's doubtful the imperial government itself would (could?) do anything in that particular timeframe, given its own problems in the east and the deteriorating European situation, but I doubt it would have been all that sad to see Movers leaving the country.

As for a more modern look at things, you can bet that the Gulls are interested in maintaining at least a low level of support for Derek, especially if he is early to recognize them on the international scene. The Revolution and army reforms did leave the Shield with a rather large stockpile of weapon systems, mostly towed artillery and obsolescent tanks and transports, that could be sold/leased cheap to friendly powers. In fact, we tried to unload a bit of it on the Arabians -- but they already had better stuff than we can provide them with.

Truth be told, I'm glad to see a true third-world nation coming into AMW, which has tended to focus mostly on middle-income nations (and for a reason, I can understand why). Given that the Shield is currently in the very bottom of countries from an economic standpoint, although it is majorly industrialized, we produce a lot of shit that nobody wants to buy.

Speaking of which! I just completed a new post on my factbook which I think might be relevant to both Lusaka AND you fancy rich nations who want to move shit from one place to another: Click on the shameless self-promotion link! In particular, it details aircraft produced over the past century by the Shield's national aircraft company, which is a mash-up of Antonov and Beriev, with a few other design bureaus from my claim and some HAL stuff tossed in. However, if you need to move something from point A to point B in the air, and there's not really an airport at point B, and you're on a budget we're who you should go to. Also, randomly, if you need to move a LOT of stuff all at once, we also produce what is, in the absence of a claim in Washington state, probably the world's largest aircraft.

So, yeah, come to the Shield for discount, low, low prices on transport aircraft!

((I also wanted LRR and WoS to have a chance to read it, as I took a couple liberties with your countries and companies at various places. Usual disclaimer about any problems, talk to me so I can fix them, etc.))

[Lusaka]

Derek will take four Chargers, two Daylies...

really, though, I'm sure that Shieldian manufactures will have a major presence in Lusaka, if the earlier described scenario is acceptable to TCB and others. Would I be right to assume that the Grand Empire would have been as willing to sell to the north as the Republic is to sell to the south? If the Shieldians are even ten years less cautious than the Russians and only withdrew the type a few years before the revolution, I can imagine supposedly-retired GB-8s endangering people throughout northern Lusaka today.


I'll wait for TCB before going ahead with things as described, so for now a little more working information.

The United African Republic of Lusaka (UARL), informally or apolitically called South Lusaka, will be dominated by the only legal party, the United Lusakan People's Organisation (ULPO), lead by Mr. Derek 'Papa Africa' Igomo, from his capital at New Lusaka City (Freetown, Sierra Leone). The UARL has managed to establish three of the region's largest cities at City (as the capital's informally known), plus whatever I rename Conakry and Monrovia (though I've always liked 'Conakry', and I suppose we could call a prominent Mover missionary 'Monroe'). The UARL claims all of Lusaka as its territory, and doesn't recognise the northern government as anything but an illegitimate colonial puppet.

Derek's economic policies are not always investment-friendly, and he pursues a form of African Socialism dictated by the 'Happiness Programme' and its slogan Health, Housing, Hope.

Though radical in its land redistribution etc, the ULPO probably struggles in its relations with the probably less liberal Kurosites and more liberal Igovians, and has been very glad to see the rise of the Gull Flag (it's not quite an African fish eagle flag, but it'll do) as a compromise. The UARL has significantly more than quarter of the planet's bauxite, along with iron, titanium ore, gold, diamonds, and some petroleum and uranium, but Derek's views of liberation through African Socialism mean that exploitation of these resources has often been on a fairly small scale, and is generally inefficient. In contrast, the ULPO expends a lot of effort on agricultural development, and the UARL is probably self-sufficient in food production, and exports coffee, palm oil, cocoa, nuts, bananas, pineapples, fish, rubber, and timber.

The south has a slight advantage in population (barley 10%), and I think with its vast agricultural and mineral resources and relatively low corruption and safe atmosphere (possibly encouraging tourism in some parts away from the border... come and see the chimps! Or, if that doesn't turn you on, there's hartebeest and adorable little royal antelopes you can buy as inappropriate pets!), maybe slightly higher revenues than the north. Never the less, I think economic growth will be slow. If the Shieldians know anything about hydro-electricity, that might represent the major current infrastructure project. If not, Derek might have to invite Hotan in.

In terms of military, I think the UARL will have 20-30 thousand personnel, mostly light infantry. The Lusakan Revolutionary Alliance Corps representing between 5 and 20% of the total will be quite well trained and experienced in bush-fighting, and will have a good reputation for discipline and friendly interaction with the population. Most of the rest will be barely more than popular militias with minimal training and equipment, but Derek is fairly popular and in time of security crises his people usually respond quite well. The LARC will have some armoured cars, APCs, and a few field guns etc, and may have at most one or two companies of elderly tanks. Maybe newly obtained TA-49-520 or TS-82-535, and/or similar earlier-obtained vehicles from Beddgelert and Dra-pol.

The navy will probably have no more than a few patrol craft and maybe some old gunboats and FACs obtained at one point or another in the last thirty years from Beddgelert or Dra-pol, and it'll only have a few hundred personnel. The air force probably has a small number of light transport aircraft from the Shield, Beddgelert, or Dra-pol, along with a few utility helicopters, some maybe configured for fire-support. If it has a combat jet component, it's probably one that's existed and shut-down several times through its history as City struggles to operate the maintenance-heavy machines. For example, perhaps a couple of Drapoel S-5 and S-6 in the 1970s that fell apart in the 80s when the Drapoel were in no position to help maintain them. Since the Gull Flag revolution, it's possible that Derek might have obtained a small number of old Shieldian jets, but we really are talking single-figures. A couple of two-seat Colt trainers, if such exist, and a flight of three GBM-11, maybe. At some point the UARL may have dropped bombs from light transport planes, or fired machineguns out the windows

Did anyone manufacture the SKS rifle in AMW these days? That was always one of the mainstays of Derek's armies.

Less information, here. I'm not completely sure what I'll set the place up as. I don't quite know whether it'll be a nominal republic or some sort of monarchy. Quite possibly a military strong-man ruling as self-declared emperor of North Lusaka, or some name he's made up, as he tries to disassociate the country from the rest of Lusaka and create a new artificial state.

Pending TCB's thoughts, Gandvik might still have some significant influence, as they lost the south through armed resistance, but maybe only left Lusaka finally via the north when the pressures of war or post-war reconstruction in Europe became too great, and so may have been able to leave behind a somewhat agreeable government, and support it ever since.

I think it'll be more corrupt and inquisitorial, authorities turning a blind eye to drugs smuggling, money laundering, people trafficking, and so on, which Igomo would never tolerate (he won't let go of power, but Derek genuinely wants (what he believes is) the best for Lusakans). Major industries will be fishing, ground nuts, phosphates and fertilisers, and small scale mining of gold and iron etc. Dakar (no idea what I'll rename that, possibly something very Catholic) seems like it might have been the Gandvian colonial capital, and may have light industry and perhaps off-shore banking services run with little scrutiny. It'll be more or less the only really significant city in the country.

Hopefully, the north receives significant financial and military aid that compensates for the lower population, revenues lost to corruption, inferior resource and agricultural base, and lower morale and discipline. I still imagine that Rome (at least the Vatican) and Canaan might be important to supporting the slightly smaller state, possibly Areopagitican and Arabia in the past, and most importantly Gandvik.

Militarily, they might have more heavy equipment, perhaps some relatively modern, but struggle to properly exploit the material available.

[Chrinthania]

Oh, Ian, the Western Empire probably purchased some of your transports if it is okay with you.

[Chrinthania]

Like I said above, we could keep things simple with me keeping the regions of Catalonia, Navarre, Basque country and the north half of Aragon, with you keeping the entire population of Aragon and it's industrial complex. I'm open to other ideas if you have another one though so no worries. To tell you the truth I would give you those territories and establish the border at the Pyrenees seeing that the Spanish culture continues to exist through your nation but by now I have everything so intermingled that it would be too big of a hassle to rewrite my factbook. I know I sound somewhat lazy but please bear with me

Hold on a minute. I may be misreading what is highlighted in bold text in your quote. Perhaps, again, I should propose that, since you have superior French military kit, that all of Spain's military kit be left to the Western Roman Empire. At the moment, I am inclined to believe that is what you already said, though the statement itself could indicate just what's made in Aragon, which wouldn't be how I've read it.

[The Crooked Beat]

In response to Lusaka's outline, that looks excellent from my perspective, and all proposed interactions with Gandvik appear eminently reasonable. Chances are, Gandvik's initial campaigns in West Africa would have been conducted by a rough collection of hard-case mercenary soldiers, disgraced army officers, and native levies whose cruelty, drunkenness, and general indiscipline no doubt invited disaster when it attempted to conquer the southern part of present-day Lusaka, even if the presence of Royal (Gandvian) Navy gunboats and maybe a naval brigade, greatly superior in combat effectiveness but also highly vulnerable to tropical diseases, allows the establishment of a fairly firm hold on some coastal cities. There might also have been some attempts to take advantage of ethnic and communal differences to create a relatively loyal soldier-class, though administration, in the French fashion, would have been carried out by Gandvian or assimilated district captains.

In terms of Gandvik's departure, some point between 1945 and 1955 would probably make sense, as war-related financial pressures convince authorities in Riga, many of whom may have never been sold on the concept of an overseas colony to begin with, to divest themselves of a territory whose administrative costs would by that time almost certainly have exceeded revenues by a significant margin.

Nowadays, while there might still exist some feeling of historical attachment for this northern ex-colony, Riga tends not to be especially selective in terms of its trading relationships, and might happily pump money into southern Lusaka for a chance to get at its mineral resources. Then again, Gandvian intelligence services might view northern Lusaka (whatever it happens to be called) as a convenient venue for covert activities, especially trading in narcotics and other contraband to raise off-the-books revenues, and some Gandvian criminal types might operate there as well.

Both sides could probably obtain Gandvian arms, older varieties at least, without too much difficulty. Plenty of Great War-era lend-lease and captured equipment was probably dumped on colonial forces in northern Lusaka, so Gandvian leftovers could well amount to a jumble of MP 40s, M1 Carbines, K 98s, Mannlichers, and many more besides. Plus of course items of more standardized issue, like Kl.91 (Mosin-Nagant) bolt-action rifles and Kp.34 (Suomi) submachine guns. Gandvik, for its own part, doesn't produce the SKS, but somebody else might, in some form. There is a Gandvian semi-automatic rifle out there, the Ik.39, a cross between Finnish gunsmith Carl Pelo's prototypes and the more successful Ljungman, but something tells me that wouldn't be the LRAC's first choice!

Hopefully some of that is helpful.

Also, in response to Ian's aviation post, nothing out of line there at all, and fine work!

[Chrinthania]

I am still working on how the Catholic Church works in Rome. Think of it as an enemy of the Roman Empire that was defeated back in the late fifth century and never quite gained the political clout in Rome that it otherwise had in real life. The Western Roman Empire is predominantly Catholic in terms of the population, however, the government remains very secular. You probably score some points with the majority Catholic population of the Western Empire, but really fail to get much support from the government itself. Again, I have been very hands off ss far as Catholicism goes in our little group. I am basically stamping an approval on just about anything the people need from the Catholic Church throughout history while minimizing roleplay impacts in the present.

[Iansisle]

I wish I had more to say than just "yes, that sounds amazing, carry on!" but that's really about it. The Republic does have a huge quantity of arms left over from the old Empire that it's willing to let go dirt cheap, even in exchange for intangibles such as preferential treatment in Derek's Lusaka. In particular, it finds itself left with a bunch of towed artillery pieces that no longer fit with the mobile mechanized units fielded and tons of 60s vintage small arms, including the R63.3 (RL Madsen LAR). Historically, the Empire has been somewhat cash-strapped and rather unprincipled in who it was willing to sell to, so it's very possible that even before the Revolution these sorts of weapon systems found their way into Derek's hands -- perhaps even using Lusaka as a middle man to sell to Drapol without angering Walmington too directly.

As for experts, I suppose the Shield better have some of those if it doesn't want to end up under water. I've sort of worked under the assumption that Soviet water management programs in the Ukraine (including the Dnieper locks and reservoirs) were implemented as IRL as I've no real desire to look into the geographic ramifications of changing history. So, yes, there would be some help from Derek there.

Chrin, of course. It's not a storefront, just an update for people who want to integrate heavy lifters into their state inventory and such. Speaking of which, I do need to look into trainers. I suppose we have a domestic Colt version that could fill the role, but the Republic is likely looking to Walmington for more modern / relevant examples. Need to do research there!

[Lusaka]

All right, Lusakas are go. I'll post the exact borders again, in the applications thread, for ease of reference.

I do hope that the north can get at least one more sponsor, since the Pope can only do so much, and Gandvik doesn't seem likely to be all that committed to preventing Derek's paramilitaries over-running (Dakar). I'm hoping that Canaan will be glad of any friends it can get, and maybe send a few officers to train the presidential/imperial guard.

The back-up strategy for (Dakar) will probably have been to target individuals rather than states. While some pariah countries sink a lot into developing WMDs as a survival strategy, northern Lusaka might instead spend the money trying to 'nobble' influential politicians, businessmen, and family members/partners of such people. The defence budget is probably only going to be a few hundred million pounds, compared to tens of billions in the most powerful countries, but that still means (Dakar) can siphon off a few million each year to bribe a foreign policy advisor in the Shield or a Senator in Rome, and can still offer an uptight, frost-bitten Gandvian nobleman a winter retreat on the Gambia River attended by a thousand song birds and fifteen exotic women/boys/antelopes/whatever. In return, smooth over these cracks for us, because we can't quite afford those Sprut self-propelled anti-tank guns at face value, or throw a spanner in the works for the south's effort to get hold of attack helicopters. Or else we'll introduce your wife to (familiar boy/girl/animal).

Hmm, maybe the Depkazi hippo has family it wouldn't want to see harmed....


I think on principle Derek would have to reject any significant or obvious trade with Gandvik. If he looked like a sell-out, or a member of the old establishment, the image on which he depends for mass support could crumble. Possibly this means that he's one of the people Riga would most like to see dead, and so long as he lives Gandvik has few prospects in the south of Lusaka.

Still, maybe the Luskans, experiencing the Ljungman thing in the 1940s, have come up with something like Egypt's Rasheed carbine version. That's close to the SKS in form and function, I suppose. Local hardwoods instead of the original, to prevent warping in the tropical climate, shortened to suit the southern Lusakan rainforest. That could work. If Sudan can build tanks, maybe Lusaka can at least manage semi-automatic rifles.

[Chrinthania]

The Pope can support whom he likes. He's not powerless, he's just not a political figure.

[Crusader Canaan]

I think you underestimate Canaan's position politically and economically.

That said, after careful consideration, I think its likely that your country would recieve some degree of regular aid, both christian mercy aid for your citizens and some more discreet funding for your millitary, aswell as the occasional officer exchange programme to improve your Catholic military. However, Canaan has an..understanding of sorts with Protestants, namely, as long as they want to come to Jerusalem and spend their tourist money on all that stuff, Canaan is more than happy to accept it, and doesnt generally like to promote anti-Protestant anything, since its rather risky and could backfire easily. Much easier to demonise the Muslims and the secularists, after all.