AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Cassanos]

Jean, I'm really sorry, somehow that must have slipped under my radar for some time now. I have no idea how. Selective amnesia brought about by lack of vivacious French women and pies, perhaps . No, really, I'm sorry, I should have caught that.

BUT that means that the stores are open! Should you not be able to satisfy your defensive needs from Walmingtonian or Shieldian armouries, Nibelunc would happily export military technology to a fellow democracy - especially if they have the resources and funds .
While some technology is restricted to domestic and close allies' use, there is still a large number of lighter, more affordable systems available for export. Depending on Emesan budgets and needs, Nibelunc could supply you with wheeled APCs such as the RL-Condor used by Malaysia or the Fuchs 2, which in AMW is available in a large number of different setups, including turreted 20, 30 and 105mm guns and missiles. As for MLRS, there is the joint MARS and also the older, lighter 110mm LARS (on trucks). Also, the Milan 2T might be a low-cost, reliable ATGM well able to defeat any Dra-Poel tank's armour.
Basically, feel free to include any Nibelung equipment barring the latest strategic missiles and other high-tech.

[Nova Gaul]

No problem at whatsoever Cass, I know the change came out of nowhere.

As soon as I get the basics of Emesa's modern military (at this point, the factbook I gave a previous green light to needs an overhaul) I will most eagerly think about Nibelunc & Shieldian equipment -- thanks Ian.

And everything sounds very good WoS, Bukit Timah would remain the same, and I imagine Mayfair-facsimile townhouses would be all the rage indeed.

[Iansisle]

BTW, Cass, I am raiding the Polish and Czech military equipment inventories pretty heavily with little regard for what side of what river particular facilities fall on. If I step on your toes with anything, please let me know! You of course have first dibs on all that stuff, I just figure with all the sexy German stuff you don't have too much need of it.

(although I'm keeping the Ursus C451 no matter what you say!)

[Cassanos]

No problem, take all the tractors (armoured or not) you want .
The OT-64 for instance is an excellent example of a low-cost, low-maintenance effective APC, and did away with many of the godawful flaws of the BTR-60 and -70, such as a single engine and large rear doors instead of two small engines and side doors you'd need to be an acrobat to use quickly. The DANA also is a decent wheeled SPG, while the Pt-91 might be a good and relatively cheap option for upgrading the Shield's T-72s (for which Nibelunc would gladly supply advanced electronics).

Most Polish and Czech equipment I use(d) is either from the Great War or not ground-based. PZL helicopters and the I-22 come to mind, but apart from that, you should be alright.

[Beddgelert]

PZL? Quick, the Nibs have annexed Thortaria!

Ah well, I suppose the Shieldians can make a case for a share of MiL's products, since a lot of them are manufactured in Rostov-on-Don and Gandvik seems to be happy with most of Kamov, I gather. And you can have the Ka-126 (joint Sov-Rom built in Romania IRL) if we perhaps say that Llewellyn bought at Ka-26 from Gandvik and then secretly joined the Shieldians in producing an upgraded version. And the related Ka-226, IRL built in Ukraine.

[Iansisle]

Well, I know that most PZL helicopters technically were produced on my side of the Vistula (just south-east of Lublin), but I'm not willing to press the point since you're being so accommodating on the ground side of things. Take all the PZL kit you want, I'll find stuff elsewhere -- maybe buy Royal Bankfield, just to piss on poor Ernie Bankfield's corpse a little more. I don't see the Shield having domestic production capability for anything other than some older transport and civilian helicopters anyway.

And remember, I don't have T-72s any more. The Shield's more advanced tanks are Vickers from the Walmies now, and our new-fangled upgrade is that Sino-American Jaguar based on our old T-55 fleet.

[Cassanos]

Rrright. I knew there had been a reason for me to go only for Bölkow helicopters :-/.

[Iansisle]

Aw, Cass. Please take PZL. Honest!

[Chrinthania]

So polite of you, Ian.

[Cassanos]

No, sir, I insist. I could not bear the thought of you being left helicopterless while I can fill order of battle with models from around the world, sir. I say!

Well, the I-22 is a PZL model - and by the way, PZL was founded in Warsaw, which makes it half-Nibelung/Shieldian, at least until we can find out in which borough of the city it was founded . However, if you are okay with me taking the I-22 and maybe the Sokol helicopter, that would be great .

[Iansisle]

Of course, take away! I'm wondering if the Shield would even have a helicopter industry, outside of maybe a few civilian models, rather than importing from Walmington and elsewhere.

[Walmington on Sea]

Well, if that's the way you go, maybe G&B or another Shieldian firm got as far as the PZL SM-4 prototype, ran into the same technical problems, and more or less gave up.

IRL Sikorsky bought out PZL Mielec... maybe in AMW Royal Bankfield instead bought out a Shieldian equivalent to PZL Swidnik, perhaps a rotary-wing division of G&B that wasn't very capable, with a view to using it as Sikorsky do to perform low-cost final assembly of some RB designs? Also, the likes of the PZL SW-4 could get the AMW equivalent to the Pratt & Whitney Canada PW200/9 turboshaft, leading to a modern -Shieldian- light helicopter for the Republic, enabled by Walmingtonian powerplant technology. That is assuming that the Republic would allow such a take-over in the first place. I would assume that some production and marketing at least would continue under the G&B brand name (or that of another Shieldian company or post-revolution name dreamed up by the Gulls).

Well, just a thought. Now I go back to reorganising the Walmingtonian Empire and renaming everything. I've finally figured out what England is in AMW, amongst other things (and sorry, Mod, your city may become slightly less prominent :P).

See?

[Chrinthania]

I have been contemplating renaming things in Chrinthania. If we werent so much a Walmingtonian colony, but more a discovered land in which the newcomers intermingled with natives and whatnot, there may be less English-based names. In this computer-less time for me, I've had a lot of time to think about things regarding the empire itself. History can be a bitch to me in reconciling what I want versus what makes more sense. I am left dependent on infusions of immigrants to keep the vast population while stymied by lack of European contact except for the last 500 years. A lot can happen in half of a millenia, though. So, my task at hand is to work out what I want within the historical context of AMW. This means buckling down and really sorting out this history.

To this end, as suggested by WoS himself, we most likely didnt become and maintain such a vast territory without coking into conflict with our neighbors. There has to have been some wars and skirmishes between Chrinthania and Virginia (if he returns), Amerique, and Walmington (even beyond our Hawaiian conflict). Win or lose, I cant see Chrinthania not having been to war with her neighbors. It helps justify a larger military organization, production of military equipment, and being as powerful as it is in the present day. Furthermore, some of this vast territorh was probably won from war, and, potentially, territoru within the claims of my neighbors could have also been won from Chrinthania in past conflicts. Such conflicts often help to galvanized a national identity and ideals. Such wars coild help explain why that piece of "Louisiana" runs under Alabama with a straight-line border and why Walmington and Chrinthania settled on their vast straight-line border.

This being said, in the modern age, perhaps a series of outside conflicts (namely Drapol a d that whole debacle) helped the North American nations forge a friendship and a system of partnership (a la the League of Nations). While some of us may not be active participants in this league, we may have continued to maintain a spirit of friendship and cooperation in particular during the Great War in Europe. With North American not wanting to fight a similar war in their home territory.

There are certain things I cannot imagine Chrinthania without:

- Having Sir Harold involved in our history
- Having a large influx of European immigrants
- Having helped in Drapol alongside Walmington
- Having, beginnig at some point, close relatons with Nibelunc and, to whatever end he allows, Walmington

One sticky situatio is Novoslavian historu. If the Slavs came across the Bering Strait back in the day and migrated southward to South America, then that leaves me with having some odd-looking Native Americans when Sir Harold arrives. So, I have decided to overlook that. If thats what Kule wants, he can have it. Im probably not loooing for hairy white natives who speak some combo of Navajo and Slovak.

I am still working on what the Chrinthani were before European contact. It may not seem that importsnt to some, but to me it is part of my unwritten history that just sticks in my craw and annoys me to no avail. Until I figure it out, I am probably stuck with this on-again-off-again history conversation. I just feel uninspired right now. Like there is nothing really lifting up my skirt. So, yeah, nothing is clicking for me right now and I'm stuck as it pertains to history.

[Walmington on Sea]

Well, I suppose there's no rush on early/pre-history... for now it can be assumed to be greatly mysterious IC, until you get an idea that works for you. I must admit that I'm not going into much detail on Walmington's own past before the middle ages and the age of exploration, simply having, "proto-Gandvian" and possibly Shieldian-related and partially Celtic tribes in Amberland, probably all quite primitive, and more or less RL native history in the Americas, or lack of such records. Walmington being what it is, I can't see a significant aboriginal minority existing in England, Canada, New England, and Norbray, really... it doesn't quite fit, and such peoples must be extremely few in number and probably confined in the most part to Norbray. Others in the east are probably by now largely white with only a little native blood remaining. I sometimes wonder if maybe a number of tribes migrated wholesale to Chrinthania rather than continue to oppose -or submit to- English bayonets and industry. Perhaps a significant number of métis along with them.


On conflicts between Chrinthania and Walmington, I propose that everything west of Devonshire (Northern Ontario) used to be variously either part of the Chrinthani Empire or satellite/tributary to it. Of course the northern areas (now Norbray) would have been sparsely populated, and perhaps it's there that allied and subordinate but effectively self-governing tribes remained, while the Canadian portion of the Great Plains and Pacific Northwest were within the Empire-proper. Likely from time to time the Norbray tribes experienced in-fighting, likely as English fur traders interjected themselves and sometimes supported one tribe's ambitions against another/Chrinthania.

The Hawaii conflict happens in the late 1700s (oh, let's just say 1775 or something, to finally pin it down? Feel free to suggest another year), and is primarily a Hawaiian civil war with the two sides supported by the Chrinthanis and English, the former eventually prevailing. This in itself doesn't really do much to establish the Chrinthanis as equals of the Walmingtonians and Europeans, but does lead Walmington to regard Chrinthania as a rival and a threat rather than a simple neighbour.

Consequently, the English become more aggressive in supporting rebellious tribes in Norbray, and resolve to secure passage to the Pacific coast, and to establish a port there. In perhaps 1777, Walmington invades Chrinthania, probably using conflict between tribes in Norbray to establish casus belli, maybe after a cross-border raid by a tribe said to be acting on Chrinthania's behalf. Thus we have not just a case of WoS crushing minor tribes allied to Chrinthania, but an outright war between the two empires, probably lasting a number of years (due in part to the great distances involved).

Evidently WoS has the better of it, and takes what becomes New England from the Chrinthanis. However, I'd suggest either that Walmingtonian forces tried, maybe in the 1780s, to push on and extinguish Chrinthania as a threat, but were halted by Chrinthani forces, or that shortly after the initial conflict, Chrinthania regrouped and counter-attacked, forcing a settlement along the modern straight border, the English perhaps having briefly occupied some land to the south of it.

Thus both sides have victories. Over all, the Walmingtonians gain greatly in territory and strategic disposition at the expense of the Chrinthanis, but they for their part are for the first time able to point to military victories against regular English troops, not just their foreign allies, and to extract some concessions along the border.

If there are indeed two wars, the English no doubt claim victory in the first because of all they've taken, but the Chrinthanis claim that the English aim was to conquer their whole empire, and so by surviving at all they had won. In the second, the Chrinthanis claim victory as they push the English back, but Walmington claims that the Chrinthani aim was to recapture all of the territory they'd lost, and that by holding on to most of it, the English had won. Two less than totally conclusive wars in a row probably convince both parties to stick with the settlement (perhaps a few minor scuffles over the border on the coast and islands of the Pacific Northwest not withstanding).

WoS then goes back to fighting the French for the next century or so in the then more heavily populated east of the continent, perhaps over the islands of the Great Lakes.

Edit: And maybe Amerique had something to do with helping Chrinthania get to grips with modern warfare during the Anglo-Chrinthani conflicts, selling muskets and helping to set up modern workshops et cetera? Not necessarily because of any solid or enduring alliance, but out of opportunism in the sense that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend...'

[Chrinthania]

1775 works for me. Im cool with what you are saying about Walmo-Chrinthani conflicts. We can hammer out specifics as needed. And, as far as pre-European Chrinthania, I am leaning towards using the Aztecs as a general blue print towards that portion of the history. It fits with what I want and already-established history in AMW. As always, specifics to come later, but something along thay general idea.

[Walmington on Sea]

Today's musing: The Parliament of Nations; should it still exist?

Formed in the second half of the twentieth century on Walmingtonian initiative, the PoN brought together, for the most part, multi-party democracies with capitalist economies ((usually along side at least the bones of a welfare state)) with the general aim of defending shared ideals against rival world views, in particular the nominal republic in Lower Drapol ((again, people, the name Sulpol was concocted by the Communists, who use the term to denigrate the junta and its backers, so such people probably shouldn't adopt the term themselves)) against the Chaoists.

My belief/expectation/assumption is that the membership initially included almost certainly WoS, the NRD, Emesa, Amerique, and Avarga ((or whatever TCB concocts to replace it)), who were all already involved to some degree in the Drapoel conflict, Avarga being the only one of those without a direct stake in the outcome, and probably involved chiefly to ensure the continued diplomatic and military support of the English in Europe and to expand its roster of allies. I think they make sense as the founding signatories, and that the establishment of this tri-continental organisation that was willing to fight for the interests of its members was seen as an opportunity in Chrinthania and Nibelunc, who quickly came on board and sent contingents ((whether full blown combat forces or merely logistical/medical assets)) to Drapol in time to take part in the final round of fighting beginning in 1980.

I don't know whether other nations might have applied ((the likes of Virginia and Valendia would probably have to be accepted if they applied, but I can imagine the Geletian Principality being a contentious one should it have applied in its late years, similar the Byzantine Empire)), but anyway, the scale on which the final war was fought came as a surprise to many members, caused greater than expected attrition even to western forces (where previously the Nationalists and maybe Emesans had absorbed the bulk of anti-Communist casualties), and forced some to pull out entirely ((Nibelunc, Chrinthania?)) and others to reduce their manpower ((Avarga, Amerique?)).

Previously it's been sort of assumed and never really clarified that the PoN probably collapsed at that point, nations reverting to bilateral alliances et cetera. But maybe it doesn't have to. The PoN's exactly the kind of organisation that might be providing the international presence in Ionia, for example, and might be what tied Walmington to Nibelunc's action against Areopagitican.

Maybe one of the factors preserving the alliance after the disasters of Hotan's 1980 tunnel offensive that cut-off and destroyed front-line allied forces would be an understanding on 'theatre orientation' or some like jargon, meaning that, for example, Nibelunc would no longer be bound to get involved beyond the European region ((perhaps including North Africa and Western Asia)), and maybe Chrinthania's field of regard would be narrowed to the Americas ((at the moment exceedingly quiet, meaning that Denver wouldn't have to do much at all, but we never know what excitement future members may bring!)), et cetera et cetera,

Well, any thoughts?

[Chrinthania]

I suppose it is something that the chrinthani are interested in. That is providing we are able to ensure that we dont have to go to war on behalf of this organization if we dont want to.

[Nova Gaul]

Though it would pretty much negate several RPs I had going, with Emesa trying to reform the Parliament of Nations, I think this is a great idea WoS and one that fundamentally makes sense.

In response to casualties WoS I think that Emesa spent all the effort it negated to spend in the Great War during the Drapoel Wars. For Emesa, it was literally decades of perpetual combat with probably a five-ten year period operating under a total war paradigm. Perhaps the Emesans even properly launched a campaign entirely on their own in the 60s (tangent: perhaps in Emesa the 60s were known as the Green and Red decade, and a common purpose against an implacable foe caused the Emesans to stay rather conservative and ‘more Walmy than the Walmies’ instead of pursuing Chrinthani-type liberalism) using their fleets of WoS surplus Lancaster bombers and several dozen divisions. Perhaps grievous Emesan loses securing the Nationalist Republic in the final years of the wars meant Emesans felt honor bound to keep the NRD free, if for no other reason than to not make the death of hundreds of thousands pointless.

In any case it seems the PoN effort against Dra-pol could roughly approximate the Indochinese conflicts. There were several different players, in somewhat allied groups, who fought a number of pretty much separate war over whole generations but under a generally common theme of socialism versus capitalism.

One question: Seeing as how the PoN’s foundation is seemingly inextricably tied to the Drapoel Wars, would it be a treaty obligation to defend members against Chaoist aggression (namely Emesa, the concessions, and the NRD – and I assume here that the NRD would be a member state)? This would the paramount clause for Emesa.

[Walmington on Sea]

I was thinking that maybe that'd be what Emesa was trying to sort out, now. Obviously some PoN members don't want to be roped into certain conflicts that are too big or too remote, which is probably in part a hangover from the horrors of 1980, so maybe now Emesa's trying to renegotiate some of the provisions, or 'update the treaty'. As it has been over thirty years since that disaster and twenty-four since the end of the last full-scale Drapoel war, they think/hope that maybe they can get some of the members to sign addenda specific to Emesan security?

It'll be good to see Emesa take over a few of the actions undertaken by various anti-Drapoel nations in the original RPs, so that WoS doesn't have to do everything.

During the period of the RL US-Vietnam war, the CPRD was smaller than today, confined to northern Burma, and was under the control of Kurosian's rogue son, Chao Bae-chul ((AKA Kurosian-II)), who tried to use the vast student and worker militias to overwhelm border defences, which were far too strong for them. Then the Red Bamboo Southern Resistance Force appeared all over Nationalist Drapol, and was far more effective, leading to paranoia, mistrust, and, for the southern population, mass detentions by the Walmingtonians and summary executions by the Nationalists. So it makes sense for WoS to be tied-down holding the line at the old border, and the Nationalists concerned with the insurgency and going through a cycle of political and military purges targeting supposed infiltrators. Emesa, frustrated at being unable to make a significant difference in that context, could be behind the infamous aerial raid on Da'Khiem, which was supposed to 'cut the head off the serpent' but which instead made Hotan's name as he was put in charge of a Banat paramilitary force that encircled and overwhelmed the lightly armed airborne troops in something of a latter-day Dien Bien Phu ((unless, of course, Amerique would rather take credit for this débâcle, and we'll find something else for Emesa ;) )). Famously, Hotan repatriated surviving POWs in a gesture of good-will that apparently fell on deaf ears. The campaign also saw massive bombing of the CPRD, partly by WoS ((probably using fighter-bombers etc for targeted strikes)) but now presumably also by Emesa ((using older heavy bombers for area bombing)).

Moving on, the 1980-88 war is the one that defines Drapoel tactics as they're seen today, and is the first where Hotan is in strategic command rather than being a mere field commander. Assault tunnels, aerial infiltration, a new partisan rising, hardened artillery sites, and so on. The PoN forces ((including Nationalist, English, Emesan, Chrinthani, Avargan, French, and possibly Nibelung/others)) are quickly over-run at the border and the chaos now associated with the NRD really makes itself felt. At the start, the superiority of PoN forces on paper is if anything greater than in previous clashes, but within days of the start of fighting its strategic situation worse than ever before, and various parties are throwing up their hands in surrender or despair, and rushing to disengage. Hotan has begun clandestine trade with Gandvik, which wants to see the PoN fail, and his troops are somewhat better equipped than in prior engagements.

When the Nationalists were driven south on to the M'aek isthmus -thereafter known as The Devil's Throat- for a second time ((towards Emesa)), Avarga's famous holding action at the Three Pagodas Pass was one significant engagement, stopping the Communists' eastward thrust, but the defence of M'ko ((Mawlamyine)) was another, less romantic but far larger in scale. I would assume that's the battle in which the Emesans are most prominent. M'ko had fallen once before, early in the war, only to be abandoned thanks to a Nationalist break-out further north and retaken by the PoN, but the second time it looked very much do-or-die, as the Nationalist capital of Khiem'ko ((Yangon)) had been evacuated and there was no prospect of a counter-attack this time. M'ko was what is technically described as a real shit fight, with front-lines over-lapping, general chaos, sniper duels, booby-traps, and house-to-house fighting featuring more than a few Communists in Nationalist uniform turning on their foreign partners, blowing themselves up, and so on. M'ko is eventually abandoned, and then it'd be largely the Emesans trying to slow the Communist advance down the isthmus towards M'aek ((Myeik)), as the Nationalists retreated east across the hills on the Burmese-Thai border. Possibly the Emesans and local Nationalists held the line at M'aek ((the last Nationalist port west of the peninsula)) for several years.

Cue prolonged stalemate in which there were probably just artillery duals on the frontiers, the Royal Navy skirmishing with fast attack craft in the Bay of Bengal and Andaman Sea, and maybe the Emesans trying to maintain the allies' air supremacy against a gradually strengthening Communist air force that must by then have been taking a toll on their bomber force. Then the Communists advanced anew in 1988, smashing everyone, including Emesans, back to what are the current borders, and threatening to roll on into either the NRD or Emesa ((I'm thinking maybe northern Emesa, with the aim having been to knock out some major forward base, potentially putting Emesa out of the war for months and leaving Hotan free to deal with the NRD)), at which point, by then lacking the manpower to help, seeing the Emesans pummelled by weight of artillery and losing their elderly aircraft to AAA and fighters, Walmington dropped the Umsobomvu Device on the 100th Assault Division, perhaps after the Communists ignored a warning not to approach within X-miles of the Emesan border.

The end.

[Nova Gaul]

All sounds excellent WoS – thanks for that historical aside, seems perfect to me.

Those battles sound perfect for Emesan involvement. In a nod to Dien Bien Phu, I wonder if during the siege of M’ko the Emesans first broke the communist leaguer about the city, then were trapped inside themselves. This would also allow the Reds to batter the Emesan air force, which would have been the force’s primary link to supply. Eventually a counter-offensive by several Emesan armies broke the siege once more, at horrific cost, thus beginning a slow Emesan retreat down the Devil’s Neck to M’aek and so forth. In the harsh urban portion of M’ko, I think that iconic picture of an ARVIN officer shooting a Viet Cong prisoner in the head during the Vietnam War might well have been an insane EAF officer gunning down suspected Red Bamboo agent provocateur.

Just for the record, strangely similar to the 51st Parallel in the Korean War, the original border Emesa fell back to (probably with some refugees, perhaps Hmong-esque hill tribes the Emesans employed as light infantry and who would be dead in Red occupied territory) would have been the Marcian Line. That is to say, the (I imagine on both sides) heavily fortified border-isthmus between Ranong and Lang Suan –in Emesa the military base cities of Arx and Thurnox respectively – that has been the frontier between the Drapoel and Emesa since about the 7th Century, I think was we discussed on some earlier history thread of another?

Just to recap my earlier thoughts are the border here. The Marcian Line would approximate the DMZ in, and in my mind would consist of a massive conglomeration of ancient Byzantine turreted walls, turn of the century fortresses, Great War era trench works and bunkers, and modern minefields, listening posts, perhaps even a few recent sonar stations to try and find any Drapoel tunnel works. After all, construction began in 700 A.D. and never really stopped, probably work quintupled between 1900 and 2000. Designed at once as a barrier, headquarters, and forward operating base the Marcian Line would be the single most important military installation in Northern Emesa, and perhaps the entire empire. With upwards of ½ of Emesa’s active land army stationed there or nearby, I’m sure it would be Dra-pol’s single greatest Emesan military target.

Those sound like excellent points to begin the RP on, so I don’t this the previous RP will have to be retconned to much.

[The Crooked Beat]

Given how things look set to turn out, Avarga, with a population that's likely to number between 2.5 and 5 million people, would have only been able to sustain, at best, a token contribution, though there may be some scope for Avargan involvement before 1980. Probably nothing much more significant than a reinforced company, most likely attached to a Walmingtonian battalion and equipped more or less to Royal Army standards, a few warships, and some special forces at any given time, but these might at least represent a competent and dependable array of troops, able to handle more responsibility on the battlefield than their limited numbers would at first suggest. Large enough to potentially play some semi-independent role, maybe thrown into the battle at Three Pagodas as the only reinforcements available, having recently arrived or refitted or something of that nature, but otherwise clearly too small to have any real real influence on wider outcomes.

Not that this really has much bearing on events in general, but just some thoughts on the probable shape of Avarga's contribution.

Gandvik, for its part, would have been happy to supply Drapoel communists with all manner of Great War-surplus arms, both Walmingtonian and Oakist in origin, from at least the early 1950s, possibly including some human expertise as well, especially in terms of artillery and AAA.

[Cassanos]

Good thoughts all around. Splendid!
The whole PoN-issue puts Nibelunc in a conundrum, though – the Nibs would be loathe to leave an organization designed for peacekeeping and international cooperation (on the surface at least), but the situation in the NRDP was untenable in the long run. Now, for the PoN as a whole, I think we can work with Walmington’s idea that the PoN is still existing in some form, but several member nations have dropped out of its defence framework. For Nibelunc, this might mean a move akin to France’s in the 1960s i.e. leaving the command structure but maintaining membership. Does that make sense?
On a a sidenote, I have been thinking about having Nibelunc introducing a multinational defence organization (probably incorporating the Nibs, the Shield, Chrinthania, Valendia, Avarga and WoS) out of the bilateral treaties they have now. I have also been entertaining the idea of the Nibs pushing for the creation of a UN-like organization out of the remnants of the PoN, but with my rather sporadic posting, nothing really came of that. ICly, this would mean that the Emesans overtook the Nibelungs with their own initiative, which puts additional pressure on Munstra – they would really prefer to stay out of any war in Asia, but they cannot afford not to be on the forefront of international cooperation anymore. Maybe this clash of interests (and possibly conflicting Nibelung and Emesan initiatives?) would best be solved in an RP? 

[Chrinthania]

A-ha! Chrin is sitting behind a computer now and can actually type things out without that small, touchy smartphone keypad getting in the way.

Now, about the Parliament of Nations:

Officially, Chrinthania would want to be a member because, well, it's hoping to promote peaceful means for nations to deal with their disagreements and all that chat. It makes sense to us. However, we would want to make sure that we aren't drug into some conflict we're not interested in participating in. Ideally, and this is just a preponderance, it should be set up without military requirements. If there has to be a military solution to a problem, then we should all be allowed to commit or not commit troops to the effort. The PoN was, if I'm reading correctly, too weak to handle what it was created for, thus making the Chrinthani wince any time it wants our help for anything. Loosely organized, multi-national armies roaming around not certain who was truly in command fighting a war that most weren't interested in fighting in the first place.... seems like we'd be the stick-in-the-mud voice against such a thing.

We'd also feel the same about a [name of an international body of United states attempting to deal with the worlds problems]. I suppose all of the organization of the, erm, organization would need to be worked out before we actually joined a [name that shall not be mentioned as per a news post I once read on the NS site]-alike.

I suppose I'm just rambling.. I am a tad tired.

[Nova Gaul]

You know, TCB, the more Emesa gets to know about Gandvik the more Emesa probably rails against those 'despotic, rabble-rousing feudalists'. It's an odd switch, me playing a democracy and you the iron-fisted regime. I'll miss the old Avarga, but know you will come up with something just as good if not better. Might I suggest you think about that Java-state? More players in SE Asia would be most welcome.

Which would, interestingly, in probably the second-only exception to Emesa's policy on foreign entanglements (first exception being to do what ever Walmington says), mean Emesa probably bombastically supports the Nibelung democracy against the various despots of Europe. Support with a particular eye towards current tensions between industrious, moral Nibelunc and the backwards oriental potentate of Gandvik. And Cass, this would create a paradigm within PoN I imagine of Emesa vowing to support (however minimally) Nibelunc democracy in Europe -- in return, of course, for the Nibs promising to (rather more substantially) come to the aid of Emesa should the Drapoel get all riled up and start massacres again.

And Chrin, I imagine there would be a substantial lobbying effort by the Emesans within Chrinthania to win over support for real involvement in SE Asia. Probably a lot of public awareness ads with doe-eyed NRD children 'the poor orphans of totalitarian aggression, please, write you senator about support for AID-Asia'.

[Chrinthania]

I can see us posting a response going, "had the Walmingtonians not involved themselves in Drapol, this may not have happened."