AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Chrinthanium]

Discord is having an issue, so some of us cannot connect, others who are connected may not be able to send/receive messages. They're working on it. Update when it's over -- Chrin 19:23 GMT 12 Jan 2109

Discord is fixing the issue, the server needs time to recover. Apparently, it is having a moment? -- Chrin 19:21 GMT 12 Jan 2019

Discord has fixed the issue, but users are being returned to the servers slowly. Get your tea and biscuits ready. -- Chrin 19:24 GMT 12 Jan 2019

I've run out of tea and biscuits. I'm moving over to hard liquor. Still waiting to get back on. -- Chrin 19:31 GMT 12 Jan 2019

I'm back in the Discord. Not everyone is so lucky. -- Chrin 19:35 12 Jan 2019

[Chrinthanium]

Something I did neglect to talk about, and something I want to add to Britain, is the Katanga region of Democratic Republic of Kongo. It adds 11,214,212 to Britain bringing her population to 223,146,531

[Marimaia]

Something I did neglect to talk about, and something I want to add to Britain, is the Katanga region of Democratic Republic of Kongo.

I do remember you having it in the previous incarnation of the British Empire so I've got no issue with the addition.

[Chrinthanium]

Something I did neglect to talk about, and something I want to add to Britain, is the Katanga region of Democratic Republic of Kongo.

I do remember you having it in the previous incarnation of the British Empire so I've got no issue with the addition.

Gracias! I appreciate you remembering and the no objection.

[Nuova Lombardia]

Started a new thread which will inevitably contain some shenanigans:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=461113

Drop me a TG or accost me on Discord if you want to insert some negotiations or whatever between your nation and Nuova Lombardia

[DaShunchao]

So, I've regained some level of activity and stability in my life, and am coming back to AMW.

Some of you may have known that, others may be finding it out. But hi! I'm back.

Anyway, that's not why I'm posting here right now.

It's been discussed that there's no common source for AMW weaponry that can be used by everyone. Well, I'm establishing one. First of all, Serica is not as advanced in military tech as the modern PRC, or Taiwan. Therefore, I am decreeing all military equipment (that isn't the nuclear equipment, which I've given to Marimaia) to be broadly open source, to be allowed to be used by anyone who needs, say, a knock-off gun of something to be a local variant.

If my new claim is approved, I am also going to be primarily using Iranian weaponry for it, with the broad exception of Pakistan's nuclear warheads and their submarines. I have no real intention of using either the equipment from the post-soviet nations in Eran's northern area, or the Pakistan army's equipment.

An exception may be made for aviation, but that's the branch of any of these militaries I know the least about, and considering Iran's airforce I'd probably be happier licensing even its own equipment back from another nation rather than claiming a local industry.

So... go wild.

[Nuova Lombardia]

So, I've regained some level of activity and stability in my life, and am coming back to AMW.

Some of you may have known that, others may be finding it out. But hi! I'm back.

Anyway, that's not why I'm posting here right now.

It's been discussed that there's no common source for AMW weaponry that can be used by everyone. Well, I'm establishing one. First of all, Serica is not as advanced in military tech as the modern PRC, or Taiwan. Therefore, I am decreeing all military equipment (that isn't the nuclear equipment, which I've given to Marimaia) to be broadly open source, to be allowed to be used by anyone who needs, say, a knock-off gun of something to be a local variant.

If my new claim is approved, I am also going to be primarily using Iranian weaponry for it, with the broad exception of Pakistan's nuclear warheads and their submarines. I have no real intention of using either the equipment from the post-soviet nations in Eran's northern area, or the Pakistan army's equipment.

An exception may be made for aviation, but that's the branch of any of these militaries I know the least about, and considering Iran's airforce I'd probably be happier licensing even its own equipment back from another nation rather than claiming a local industry.

So... go wild.

If I could give you a medal, I would. It solves a lot of potential issues for claimants who might run into issues getting military tech from other nations. Hopefully TCB will see this because it could make his military shopping list a bit easier to fill

[Chrinthanium]

Right, so this is on my mind and I might as well talk about it here.

Almost 2 months ago there was a discussion that happened in Discord that, as a result of its escalation, caused Mari to leave. I did ask Mari not to leave and received a reply stating he needed a few days to think about it. Well, here we are and there's been no reply. Furthermore, Layarteb has disappeared. Both have left our Discord server, so I can only assume their claims are, at this time, null and void and returned to the ash heap of history.

This brings me to a frightening realization that, perhaps, AMW is finally dead. The Discord remains quiet and the most active members have both left. I've been struggling with coming up with ideas and it just seems to me that the bulk of our membership is so busy with real life that there is little time in their lives for participation in AMW. With the sheer lack of activity (Walmington's recent not withstanding) I wonder if we're just kidding ourselves stirring the ashes of this once burning fire. I'm willing to keep with it if others are, but I'd really, really like a lot more... activity. Part of the reason I'm almost devoid of activity is because there's almost nothing to bounce off of and precious few around here willing to RP anymore.

[The Crooked Beat]

Hello, everyone!

To begin with, I must apologize for disappearing for quite a while without prior notice, and although AMW is, clearly, moving along at what I hope no one is offended for me to call its geological pace, to echo Walmington/Dra-pol's sentiments at least I would like to keep TCB active for as long as there's an NS for it to live in, and it was not my intention to disappear, certainly not altogether. I've become quite attached, over the years, to our model world, and while life at the moment doesn't permit me to devote the same level of attention as was the case in years (!) past, I'd very much like to remain a part of AMW if there's still a place in it for me.

In order to more conveniently accommodate my already very low level of activity, therefore, and to free-up a stretch of territory which could, I can only conclude, be put to much more productive use than is now the case, I wonder if it might make sense to move Gandvik from its present location, reaching north-south from approximately the Kola Peninsula to the Pripet Marches, and east-west from the Baltic to the Valdai Hills, and into that somewhat awkward emptiness between Valendia, the GFR, the Shield, and Amberland, amounting to Oder-to-Vistula Poland and the Czech Republic, in addition to which I would like, if possible, to keep the Baltic States and perhaps a portion of Finland? This Gandvik would be far more German than Fennic (which if nothing else would make it easier to explain the country's name), and after reading a great deal of Joseph Roth over the past few years (though absorbing none of his creativity or style) I'm interested in the idea of a somewhat fractious multi-ethnic state reminiscent of Austria-Hungary, a kind of alternative Germany with a sort of archaic Low-German and Protestant veneer over a Slavic-Celtic-Baltic jumble of Lutherans, Calvinists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Pagans. This would be, viewed in the best light, a hotel of peoples, to very crudely borrow Roth's allusion, a diverse and cosmopolitan community of great richness and flavor to contrast with the more rigidly-defined nations surrounding it. In a more realistic light, Gandvik would of course look rather more like a non-ideological Yugoslavia, its centrifugal forces kept in check at least as much by force as by any kind of shared principles (arguably a great deal more so), and its perhaps unlikely existence as a union of those European peoples insufficient in number to survive on their own preserved above all by the sometimes grim determination of German-speaking elites, real power residing in a decidedly opaque alliance between the military and organized labor, brokered and mediated by a royal family and the various titled nobility, rather than the ostensibly formal organs of government.

My thinking is that, rather than have an intermittently (putting things very kindly!) active Gandvik as a barrier across eastern Eurasia's outlets to the ocean and the west, it might be more interesting and more useful to place Gandvik in that Central European blank space. I'm very happy to tie Gandvik quite deeply into the kinds of historical narratives that might possibly intimidate some (under present conditions probably highly) hypothetical new AMWer, and whereas the area of Russia seems to offer any prospective claimant a great deal of freedom, in addition to a clear and plentiful spread of options in terms of technology and resources, the middle of Central Europe, shoulder-to-shoulder with AMW's main powers, could from one perspective at least appear a great deal more complicated and restrictive.

In any event, this is clearly a case of my attempting to substitute noise and movement for actual activity, and anyone who's offended that I'm even proposing this, after disappearing for so long, has every reason to be. Just another one of those thoughts that's been rattling around for a while, and in a spare moment it seems not entirely imprudent to put it forward for review and discussion.

My apologies!

[Chrinthanium]

Hello, everyone!

To begin with, I must apologize for disappearing for quite a while without prior notice, and although AMW is, clearly, moving along at what I hope no one is offended for me to call its geological pace, to echo Walmington/Dra-pol's sentiments at least I would like to keep TCB active for as long as there's an NS for it to live in, and it was not my intention to disappear, certainly not altogether. I've become quite attached, over the years, to our model world, and while life at the moment doesn't permit me to devote the same level of attention as was the case in years (!) past, I'd very much like to remain a part of AMW if there's still a place in it for me.

In order to more conveniently accommodate my already very low level of activity, therefore, and to free-up a stretch of territory which could, I can only conclude, be put to much more productive use than is now the case, I wonder if it might make sense to move Gandvik from its present location, reaching north-south from approximately the Kola Peninsula to the Pripet Marches, and east-west from the Baltic to the Valdai Hills, and into that somewhat awkward emptiness between Valendia, the GFR, the Shield, and Amberland, amounting to Oder-to-Vistula Poland and the Czech Republic, in addition to which I would like, if possible, to keep the Baltic States and perhaps a portion of Finland? This Gandvik would be far more German than Fennic (which if nothing else would make it easier to explain the country's name), and after reading a great deal of Joseph Roth over the past few years (though absorbing none of his creativity or style) I'm interested in the idea of a somewhat fractious multi-ethnic state reminiscent of Austria-Hungary, a kind of alternative Germany with a sort of archaic Low-German and Protestant veneer over a Slavic-Celtic-Baltic jumble of Lutherans, Calvinists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Pagans. This would be, viewed in the best light, a hotel of peoples, to very crudely borrow Roth's allusion, a diverse and cosmopolitan community of great richness and flavor to contrast with the more rigidly-defined nations surrounding it. In a more realistic light, Gandvik would of course look rather more like a non-ideological Yugoslavia, its centrifugal forces kept in check at least as much by force as by any kind of shared principles (arguably a great deal more so), and its perhaps unlikely existence as a union of those European peoples insufficient in number to survive on their own preserved above all by the sometimes grim determination of German-speaking elites, real power residing in a decidedly opaque alliance between the military and organized labor, brokered and mediated by a royal family and the various titled nobility, rather than the ostensibly formal organs of government.

My thinking is that, rather than have an intermittently (putting things very kindly!) active Gandvik as a barrier across eastern Eurasia's outlets to the ocean and the west, it might be more interesting and more useful to place Gandvik in that Central European blank space. I'm very happy to tie Gandvik quite deeply into the kinds of historical narratives that might possibly intimidate some (under present conditions probably highly) hypothetical new AMWer, and whereas the area of Russia seems to offer any prospective claimant a great deal of freedom, in addition to a clear and plentiful spread of options in terms of technology and resources, the middle of Central Europe, shoulder-to-shoulder with AMW's main powers, could from one perspective at least appear a great deal more complicated and restrictive.

In any event, this is clearly a case of my attempting to substitute noise and movement for actual activity, and anyone who's offended that I'm even proposing this, after disappearing for so long, has every reason to be. Just another one of those thoughts that's been rattling around for a while, and in a spare moment it seems not entirely imprudent to put it forward for review and discussion.

My apologies!

I haven't any objection.

[Chrinthanium]

Hello, everyone!

To begin with, I must apologize for disappearing for quite a while without prior notice, and although AMW is, clearly, moving along at what I hope no one is offended for me to call its geological pace, to echo Walmington/Dra-pol's sentiments at least I would like to keep TCB active for as long as there's an NS for it to live in, and it was not my intention to disappear, certainly not altogether. I've become quite attached, over the years, to our model world, and while life at the moment doesn't permit me to devote the same level of attention as was the case in years (!) past, I'd very much like to remain a part of AMW if there's still a place in it for me.

In order to more conveniently accommodate my already very low level of activity, therefore, and to free-up a stretch of territory which could, I can only conclude, be put to much more productive use than is now the case, I wonder if it might make sense to move Gandvik from its present location, reaching north-south from approximately the Kola Peninsula to the Pripet Marches, and east-west from the Baltic to the Valdai Hills, and into that somewhat awkward emptiness between Valendia, the GFR, the Shield, and Amberland, amounting to Oder-to-Vistula Poland and the Czech Republic, in addition to which I would like, if possible, to keep the Baltic States and perhaps a portion of Finland? This Gandvik would be far more German than Fennic (which if nothing else would make it easier to explain the country's name), and after reading a great deal of Joseph Roth over the past few years (though absorbing none of his creativity or style) I'm interested in the idea of a somewhat fractious multi-ethnic state reminiscent of Austria-Hungary, a kind of alternative Germany with a sort of archaic Low-German and Protestant veneer over a Slavic-Celtic-Baltic jumble of Lutherans, Calvinists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and Pagans. This would be, viewed in the best light, a hotel of peoples, to very crudely borrow Roth's allusion, a diverse and cosmopolitan community of great richness and flavor to contrast with the more rigidly-defined nations surrounding it. In a more realistic light, Gandvik would of course look rather more like a non-ideological Yugoslavia, its centrifugal forces kept in check at least as much by force as by any kind of shared principles (arguably a great deal more so), and its perhaps unlikely existence as a union of those European peoples insufficient in number to survive on their own preserved above all by the sometimes grim determination of German-speaking elites, real power residing in a decidedly opaque alliance between the military and organized labor, brokered and mediated by a royal family and the various titled nobility, rather than the ostensibly formal organs of government.

My thinking is that, rather than have an intermittently (putting things very kindly!) active Gandvik as a barrier across eastern Eurasia's outlets to the ocean and the west, it might be more interesting and more useful to place Gandvik in that Central European blank space. I'm very happy to tie Gandvik quite deeply into the kinds of historical narratives that might possibly intimidate some (under present conditions probably highly) hypothetical new AMWer, and whereas the area of Russia seems to offer any prospective claimant a great deal of freedom, in addition to a clear and plentiful spread of options in terms of technology and resources, the middle of Central Europe, shoulder-to-shoulder with AMW's main powers, could from one perspective at least appear a great deal more complicated and restrictive.

In any event, this is clearly a case of my attempting to substitute noise and movement for actual activity, and anyone who's offended that I'm even proposing this, after disappearing for so long, has every reason to be. Just another one of those thoughts that's been rattling around for a while, and in a spare moment it seems not entirely imprudent to put it forward for review and discussion.

My apologies!

I'm trying to figure out where the emptiness is between Valendia, GFR, Shield, and Amberland.

[Chrinthanium]

So, recently (well, recently being a relative term) we saw Mari resign and Saint Laurent seems to have gone with him as both have left the AMW Discord server. Roania has also CTE'd his nations and seems to have removed himself from the AMW Discord server. As a result, without a firm list of territories that TCB wants to constitute Gandvik (along with confusion as to where this open void is that he wants to fill)... I have taken to updating the map.

ADDITIONS: None
CHANGES: None
REMOVALS:

Nuovo Lombardia (Marimaia)
Saint Laurent
DaShunchao (Roania)
And whatever Roania called his 2nd claim in and around Iran.

Updated Map: https://i.imgur.com/7NnYuoZ.png

[Chrinthanium]

Recent conversations have led me to put forth a few ideas for AMW... and I'll assume no reply means there are no objections.

1: That each of the claims that have the weapons manufacturers begin to sort out their native military tech and decide what they're going to use. The items that are not going to be used should then be put in a "donation" pile for other claims. This list would be a first-come, first-served list where new claimants and current AMWers finding themselves in a pinch for military goods could simply take what they wanted without asking. I will go so far as to state that nations that aren't claimed that do make military weapons (I see you, Russia!) would not have any of their material tossed into this "donation pile" until such time as a claimant comes and takes the land and decides what they are/aren't keeping.

In the event that, say, someone with a British claim stopped being Britain, I can see where that would cause an issue. However, we could simply allow that tech to be used until a new claimant came in and let them work it out. I would assume most people will keep the "good stuff" anyway, so it may be a moot point at the end of the day.

2: That AMW adopt the idea that part of retaining your claim means being active in AMW. I know AMW has always moved slowly, but I think at its current pace we'll complete the rock cycle once more before any real movement happens on the RP front. I know the people who started AMW grew up and got adult lives, but you're taking up a space on the map that a new person could come in and fill. Everyone's worried about their history being ruined, so no one wants to do anything to upset that most delicate of balances, but what prospects do new players--or current players wanting to do something--have if all the nations on the map are filled by people to busy to keep up with the group? I would say each member must make at least one in-character post per month to maintain membership with the obvious exception of WoS/Drapol since he owns the place.

3: Populations are growing around the world in RL and if we're going to have issues with people claiming bajillions of people, we're going to have a situation where there are only a few players with big claims and most people with claims too small and/or too poor to do anything with. I would ask that we stop focusing solely on the actual number and look at the claim as a whole in deciding anything. The idea that "the claim is good, but that is a lot of people" is really getting old and I've seen some good folks move on because AMW drug its heels on this topic.

4: Application approvals. AMW loves to let everyone decide on an applicant, but getting back to point 2, most people in AMW are so inactive they barely notice that a new person has even made a claim. We need some way to get a claim in, reviewed, and a decision granted quickly. I'm willing to work with anyone willing to help put together a mechanism for this.

5: I'm willing to limit claims to one per person, barring the obvious WoS/Drapol excemption, and decide which one to keep if necessary. It is something I think should be instituted in AMW and I know that directly effects me and I have no problem being forced to make a decision.

That's what I got for now.

[AMW Applications]

I've done a new map. Downloaded it a few days ago. It's not perfect, but it does break things up a bit more. Britain and WoS are so close in color even I'm having issues telling them apart, so I will fix that later. Now, I've checked the claims thread.... and updated WoS and Drapol to be where they're supposed to be. Kyr has been removed from the map for... not doing anything since claiming. If he wants to return, he can reapply.

https://i.imgur.com/Mbnj3xM.png

[Chrinthanium]

So, let me put this here to get the attention it deserves from our member base.

There has been a somewhat semi-interested response from a few members about abandoning the use of the Real Earth map and moving towards a created map. There are options for doing this including websites that do it for you or some tutorials on how to do it yourself. Most of which I can understand, most of which are relatively easy, and most of which anyone can follow.

I'm not opposed to this, but I am partial to a Real Life map. There's no reason the same creativity that goes into a fictional country on a fictional map cannot go into a fictional country on a real life map. And, with a real life map, we don't have to try to figure out where the resources are, where the rivers are, what the climates are, etc... in other words, a RL map does save time overall and gives everyone a really good idea of what they have and what they don't. But, I can also see where we don't have to create features on a map. I would say that instead of allowing people to determine what natural resources they have, that the map address this by, well, having a map of where they are in general. Then just set up a population matrix that could be tied with land area or a figure that we decide on as "big enough."

Again, if you are asking my opinion, I'd stick with a RL map. I know it's easier to do a fake map overall, but I like RL geography better. Though, as I think about it, there's a lot of room for creativity here.... so I could be swayed LOL.

I'd also like to say that no matter what, I think it might just be time to shake the Etch-A-Sketch of history and reboot AMW to a blank slate. No history, no countries, no claims. Then, have everyone carve out a new claim. I suppose some will want to slide in where they are currently located, but I think it could be a great time to take your idea and maybe plonk it down in a new location or, maybe, the location you originally wanted that wasn't available when you settled in.

And then we can begin to refine the application process. As I said, I think it would be best if we, as a group, select one person to be the "App Manager" or some-such name, wherein that member would be able to grant approval or issue denials to potential claims.

One of the things I am guilty of is not wanting to "sell" tech to other nations for fear it be used against me. Like selling British arms to a player who turns to be an enemy and now... yeah.. I think you get it. Anyway, perhaps people like me should be more willing to share than we have in the past. Also, I'd be against 'raiding' unclaimed map areas for fear of ripping off potential new claimaints. Hence why I wanted to put in the AMW Military Donation Pile idea. But, maybe there are others out there with a better idea to deal with the haves and havenots and how to ensure everyone in AMW gets a crack at military weaponry.

I'm really keen to reboot with AMW. I know it's not going to hurt anything. It might even relaunch the inner RPer inside us since so many of us love making claims. I know a change is as good as a rest, so I'm really excited about a reboot.

Let me know what you think.

[Chrinthanium]

For the record, there's been absolutely amazing agreement in the Discord that AMW should reboot. I think we should take some time to consider this and figure out where we want to plop down with what we want to do when we reshuffle. Here's my proposed timeline of events:

Reboot Procedure:

Reboot Time: 10 February 2020 at 12:00 UTC -5 (17:00 GMT)
Map will be cleared of all claims at that time and opened to claims by AMW members only
Members wishing to retain what they have (whether in whole or in part) must still post that intention on the application's thread.
At this time, barring Walmington on Sea, I think this should require members to have one claim and one claim only for the near term.
The hold on new members will be lifted on 15 February 20202 at 12:00 UTC -5/17:00 GMT
As always, claims will be on a first-come, first-serve basis. However, in the unlikely event of two people posting at the same time for the same location (it can happen), it is best that you also include a secondary location you'd like just in case.
For those members who haven't been around a while, I will attempt to contact them to inform them of the pending reboot within the next 24 hours. COMPLETED

So that's a bit more than 2 weeks for people to decide the Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How of their rebooted claim. As always, I'm certain most of us will talk in Discord about where we want to go to prevent any conflicting claims come the day, but I wanted to ensure there was at least a procedure for the off-chance that competing claims should happen. I see no point in remaining open to new members until the reboot is completed. This will prevent confusion on the part of any potential new friend of AMW coming into the group mid-reboot. As far as people with 2 claims... I think we should keep it to one per customer (again, barring Walmington whose Drapol/WoS dynamic is kind of a bedrock principle of AMW). After the dust of a reboot settles, I think we should at least entertain the discussion on it.

That's where I think everything stands at the moment.

EDIT:

https://i.imgur.com/a8saKZ1.png That's the link to the blank map. Before anyone starts talking about the 'borders' that are on the map VS more lower-level 'borders' I just wanted to put that up there in case you think it more beneficial to draw yourself onto the map as part of the claiming process along with rattling off a bunch of countries/provinces/etc...

[Iansisle]

To preface, this is goin get to be a very wandering ramble of a post. Also, I have a baby sleeping on my chest so I have to use my phone. My sweep to text sometimes has rather... Creative interpretations of what I mean so apologies if anything doesn't make sense.

Right, I'm hoping to engage on nailing down the sweep of Shieldian history, especially as it intersects with the history of other claims. The most involved, I feel, will be LRR's Calvinist Spain, Walmington, the Caribbean Confederation, and possibly Apilonia and the more colonialist parts of the Latin Alliance.

For distant history, I will assume, given the Latin Alliance, that we had a Rome. I see the Shieldians as a Germanic tribe driving west during the great migrations of the fifth century. Likely they came alongside the Alans and settled in the north of Lusitania, intermarrying and absorbing the local population. When the Visigoths shattered the local kingdoms, the Alans south across the strait and the Shieldians retreated into the mountains of what is now the Jave and [Galicia], taking the place of the Suebi.

More successful at resisting visigothic conquest than their RL analogue, the Shieldians moved back to control most of modern Lusitania through various splinter kingdoms in the eighth through twelfth centuries. They spent as much time warring with each other as with the proto-Spanish (and Moors, if we get them). In the early thirteenth century, Prince Damana of Mansbar-Oeseld briefly united the five kingdoms into a single empire, although the cost of his coronation was a pledge to crusade against the heretics and/or infidels of (feel free to insert your country here). Damana died during the campaign and, without a clear plan of succession, the kingdoms fell apart.

Two centuries later, Robert Rupenn of Shadoran was able to reunite a single empire between Shadoran and Weshield. His son Ian the Great added Thortraia, Wyclyfe, and eventually the Jave. In the middle of the fifteenth century, the Grand Empire was unified but still quite small and poor compared with the greater powers of Europe. That was all to change as, selling to expand their fisheries, Shieldians colonized the Azores and Madeira. New ship building and navigation techniques ignited a dream of being able to reach the spices of the far East without having to deal with the Italian city state of the Mediterranean or getting ported by surly Celts.

The Shieldian finally rounded the Cape of Good Hope in the late fifteenth century, bringing back in the next decade a then-unthinkable bounty of trade goods and stuffing the High King's coffers just as word began to arrive of (Walmingtonian?) exploits in the New World. Striking out west from the Azores (possible Shieldian name: the Goshawks?), explorers/plunderers found themselves chasing gold and silver into accidentally ruling kingdoms. Bringing cane sugar to the Caribbean proved even more lucrative than the mines of (Venezuela) or the spices of Dra-pol.

Cash could buy ships and mercenaries, but the Shield remained tiny compared to its continental neighbors. Keeping up the flow of money, therefore, became the overriding priority of the imperial court. Treasure was poured out to protect the Shields cash cows. Likely the greatest threats to the Shield in this period were Spain, Walmington and France. Shieldian policy would have been to provide financial and naval support to whoever was the enemy of what they saw as their greatest threats. Some ideas for conflicts of the sixteenth through eighteenth century:

-- coalition wars against Louis XIV
-- colonial and trade wars against Walmington, likely indecisive with lots of island swapping. The best analogue I can think of are the Anglo-Dutch wars.
-- I'd love some sort of laugh-about-it-at-the-time, screwed-over-in-hindsight deal, like the Shield trading all of its possessions in North America ("what, some dinky island on the Hudson?") for St Vincent ("Who needs fur when you have the white gold?")
-- a war between the Shield and Walmington over the slave trade (with the Shield on the wrong side of history)
-- plenty of border skirmishes with Spain
-- operations against pirates in both the Caribbean and the spice islands.

The Shieldian economy started to tumble in the late eighteenth century as long campaigns (against Napoleon?) drained the imperial treasury and the prices of sugar and spice tumbled from market saturation and increased competition overseas. More territory was lost to the Spanish, many mainland colonies either rebelled or were taken by more dynamic colonial powers. The last great gasps were an abortive war with Russia (over Japanese trading concessions?) ground to an inconclusive stalemate ("wait, how far is it to Moscow? Shame this mud is just slightly too thick to sail there.") and a failure to avenge the honor of our pigs from Geletians.

The Shield largely missed the boat on industrialization, falling far behind the other powers of Europe. As the colonies continued to fall away in the twentieth century, the imperial court turned inward, concentrating on its delusions of grandeur. An ineffectual let-them-eat-cake response to economic recession in 2010 ended up in the Gull Flag Revolution of 2011.

Several years of invasion (LRR?), counter-revolution, consolidation, bloody purges, and internecine strife later, Nicodemo Ranalte seized power in a coup in 2018 and rewrote the Constitution to establish himself as dictator in everything but name. While the Republic still maintains many of the trappings of democracy, it is clear the revolution is over.

Thoughts? Volunteers to come at me bro?

[Chrinthanium]

Two things... firstly, lemme think about it and see if you're interested in me somehow being involved in some ways. I wanna kind of make it good, but also somewhat... funny.. at the same time.

Secondly: the brand-new AMW News Thread v2.0: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=481119

[The Crooked Beat]

For now, I'm afraid, I have only a sketchy idea of what history might look like for Ezpanna, though there's a good chance it will resemble RL Spain's quite closely through 1000 ACE. Anything before 1500 is quite hazy indeed, though I tend to think there would have been some kind of quasi-unified entity, either an alliance of small proto-states or a perhaps shakily-united kingdom of some sort, standing in opposition to what is, at the time, very much a dominant and ascendant Shield. At some point within the 16th Century, however, the Reformation hits (whether an outgrowth of the Continent-wide upheaval or something more local), and the next two hundred years are mostly spent at some manner of war, civil, international, and often both at once. My thought is that religious chaos could initially prove disastrous to whatever imperial projects Ezpanna may have been pursuing at the time, as colonial governors and settler populations reject a central authority which has itself turned on the Catholic Church. This might go some way to explaining both how certain present-day states exhibiting Latin influence achieved their independence, and how Walmington and the Shield were able to make certain colonial gains as well.

Within Iberia itself, however, perhaps the Shield proves unable, ultimately, to contain the Reformation, with the Grand Empire and Ezpanna settling more or less upon their present-day borders by the mid-to-late 18th century?

I'm not entirely sure how Napoleon fits into this. An invasion, as in real life, would certainly make sense, and at the time I doubt an Ezpanna looking anything like RL Spain in economic terms would have been able to resist, though perhaps we'd want to try something different? Maybe the Grand Empire attempts to reconquer territories lost to Protestantism with Latin help, only for the Shieldians and the Latins to end up fighting each other when their ambitions prove incompatible?

My initial thought regarding Ezpanna's government is that it has done without a monarch for a good long while, perhaps since the 1600s, having been ruled instead by a Lord Protector-type office under a more or less theocratic system akin to Calvinist church government. Indeed, a reliable pretext for internal conflict could revolve around the tendency for incumbent sovereigns to try and pass the office to their children.

Anyhow, much more that needs discussing, and pressed for time at the moment, so rather than say nothing, an incomplete response which I hope won't prove too frustratingly so!

[Iansisle]

An interesting idea: since we're looking at a fractured Ezpanna (also, glad to have that name in case I need it!) until the reformation, perhaps it would be best to regard the Grand Empire between Shadoran's ascendancy and the Reformation (~100 years by my count) as a expy of the Holy Roman Empire? All/most/much of Iberia welded together by the conquests of Robert Rupenn and Ian the Great, but still comprised of loosely-affiliated and essentially independent kingdoms with little more than late-feudal obligations to one another?

In this conception, lingering ethnic tensions between the Western/Shieldian and the Eastern/(Ezpannan? Basque? Ezpanese?) parts of the Empire added a religious overtone and exploded into a violent 30-years war analogue. The Grand Empire proper was reduced to the five most heavily Catholic and Shieldian kingdoms (perhaps with rather larger borders than they have presently). Meanwhile, the eastern kingdoms/duchies/bishoprics elected themselves a Lord Protector. The stump Grand Empire retained the most colonies and much of the overseas wealth (perhaps western Andalusia was then part of Wyclyfe; I always like the conception of Wyclyfe as the tiny rump left over after much of their territory was sacrificed to protect Shadoran). In time, Ezpanna built up a navy of their own and began to compete with the Grand Empire in the Gallies, East and West, and lacking revenue the Empire lost a series of wars in the early eighteenth century, reducing the state to the modern borders. However, Ezpanna found its newly acquired Catholic Shieldian provinces difficult to administer and, thinking the old threat more or less dealt with, turned its ambitions against the larger states of Europe.

The Grand Empire then spent much of the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century trying to reassert its global power in increasingly desperate gambits, like thinking they had any chance in wars against Russia and Beth Gellert. As these ambitions failed, the energy of the imperial court failed and a series of weak, indolent monarchs concentrated on personal pleasure. The Shield did gain a reputation through its mostly boring twentieth century as a pleasant spot for vacationing, with tourism to both Wyclyfe and the colonies becoming the major driver of economic growth.

This does narrow the Golden Age of the Shield to the period between ~1490 and ~1550, with it enduring as a great power until ~1750 and a relevant power until ~1850. I think I'm fine with that. They only issue I have is, if Ezpanna does become the center of the Reformation, we very well might never have a Diet of Worms and I'd lose my favorite ever name for a historic event.

Anyway, eager to hear your thoughts!

(and if anyone else wants to France-and-Sweden up a potential 30 Years War, I'm eager to hear proposals!)

[The Crooked Beat]

For starters, as I still have very little idea of Basque-language grammar, maybe it would be safest to use Basque, or even Hispanian, as the adjective for now until I manage something better. Probably how the English-speaking nations would translate it in any case!

Ian's outline of Iberian history looks excellent to me, and explains the present state of affairs, I think, quite effectively. Perhaps anti-Catholicism and Basque proto-nationalism would make up two parts of a more complicated dynamic, the whole lengthy era of bloodshed brought about by the opportunism of one or several east Iberian magnates seeking greater autonomy from the Grand Empire, which then mutates into a far more convulsive social revolution contrary, no doubt, to their original intent? I would certainly expect a situation where modern-day borders cut across the frontiers of former Grand Imperial subjects in a manner that continues to stimulate some lively revanchism on both sides, while the manner of Ezpanna's establishment may well have marooned a number of hostile populations inside of it.

Extensive conflict of an at least ostensibly religious character would, I think, have been underway within Ezpanna itself more or less constantly from the very beginnings of what I'll call the Iberian Reformation to the early-to-mid 19th century. As the struggle for conformity among a mosaic of dissident Protestant elements raged on alongside a continued campaign against Catholic insurgency (a counter-counter-reformation, if you will!), the Grand Empire would have found itself prevented with numerous opportunities for intervention in Basque affairs or for various colonial annexations. We could, then, possibly see in Shieldian efforts to break-up Ezpanna, coupled with Basque fears over Ezpanna's actual stability and cohesion, in both cases ranging from the well-founded to the wildly farfetched, a reliable engine for conflict between the two states into the twentieth century.

My initial inclination would be to place Iberia's reformation within a broader European phenomenon, an outcome of events and ideologies taking place elsewhere and particularly in the Latin states, so as for its relative stature among the various upheavals, I suppose we'll have to wait for someone to spell out what happened in Germany and the Lutheran heartland. I'll have to try and find some suitably sonorous locations for the important events in Iberia's church history!

Twentieth-century history is, from my perspective anyway, still quite a hazy topic, and what happens as we get closer to the present day will clearly depend a great deal on the course of events in Europe and the wider world. Clearly it wouldn't be too farfetched to paint most of the twentieth century as a fairly quiet stretch in Iberian history, as both Portugal and Spain escaped the era's two total wars with only moderate damage, and neutrality would seem a sensible course where neither the Shield nor Ezpanna would be able to stand up to a great power unsupported. The Spanish Civil War is something I'd much prefer to leave out of our world, and in my conception Ezpanna, however far it is from a genuine democracy, is also very far from Francoist Spain, in behavior at least. Then again, it seems like there should be some kind of conflict or series of conflicts during that span of time, even if they are minor. Maybe Ezpanna's primary rival during the 1900s is Walmington, occasionally allied with the Shield? Walmingtonian technological wherewithal and economic robustness, combined with Shieldian numbers in Iberia, could make for a very challenging opponent even allowing for Ezpanna's greater industrial and military capacity relative to real-life Spain, and this is doubly so if Ezpanna is having to look over its shoulder at another major power, the Latin Alliance for instance, at the same time.

As for the exact process of Basque intervention in the Shield's most recent political crises, maybe some act of extremism places Ezpanna in a position where some manner of strong military response is politically unavoidable, even if elements of the government and the armed forces would prefer not to answer? To repeat the previous pattern, a politically-divided Ezpanna could end up launching a halfhearted punitive invasion, only to call off the effort when Shieldian resistance and international opposition both prove far stronger than anticipated. A full-scale Basque occupation, eventually overthrown by a combination of military and diplomatic effort, is possible as well, and perhaps this would have the advantage of radicalizing and militarizing Shieldian politics while simultaneously embarrassing and exhausting Ezpanna? Any solution which, in Ian's view, best explains the present-day Shield is entirely welcome as far as I'm concerned.

To turn very briefly to military matters, while Ezpanna stands to enjoy a fair level of self-sufficiency in the land arena, it will be difficult to cover the full scope of the nation's requirements using only domestic resources. The shortfalls are most glaring where combat jets, helicopters, and missile systems of all types are concerned, and it is also the case that much of what is built in RL Spain relies to a great extent on technology developed or built elsewhere. While some of the gaps in question can be bridged through the pilfering of prototypes and unbuilt designs, Ezpanna clearly cannot expect to produce everything it needs entirely by itself.

I was wondering, therefore, about where Ezpanna could expect to obtain military equipment, what levels of technology would be available, and what the prospects for license production would be. I would also like to ask about AMW's attitude to prototypes, proposals, and paper designs generally, and whether it is considered fair to raid the extensive record of projects cancelled without regard for the nation of origin. To use myself as an example, my inclination, if no foreign supplier or licensor is available, would be to use either the Dassault Mirage G, Hawker P.1121, or Northrop YF-17 for Ezpanna's home-grown frontline jet fighter, the MIM-46 Mauler (assuming a decades-long development and an end product equivalent to the Roland or Crotale) as short-range SAM, and various sketch designs out of The Postwar Naval Revolution and Rebuilding the Royal Navy for warships that Spanish shipbuilding doesn't supply.

Otherwise, Ezpanna's preferred supplier would undoubtedly be Apilonia, for Kaman and Sikorsky helicopters, Oliver Hazard Perry and Knox class frigates, and the range of naval surface-to-air missiles. Owing to the current non-availability of California-based companies, Ezpanna would presumably also go shopping in the Latin Alliance, for radars, naval guns, and missiles made by RL France and Italy. If E-P would possibly be interested, I'd also be delighted to annex the Swiss defense industry, on the understanding that it wouldn't necessarily fence anything off from the Latin States.

[Marimaia]

As 'Caribbean guy', I'd be interested in working out the potential division of colonies in that region between Ezpanna and the Shield (possibly others) as the Caribbean Confederation is comprised of twelve member states and I'd like to nail down exactly which ones are ex-Hispanian, which ones are ex-Shieldian, etc. (I'll use Hispanian as the adjective for Ezpanna in this post).

Discussion thus far has resulted in the Haitian Republic (all of the island of Hispaniola) and Venezuela being ex-Shieldian (Venezuela being known as Great Guiana in AMW). The only member nations that I would specifically like to see with Hispanian heritage are Cuba, Colombia, Costa Rica, and Puerto Rico. I'd like to keep Panama's name as 'Panama' due to the Canal (which was likely built with Apilonian investment), so a version of RL history where Panama began as a breakaway from Colombia would probably work best there. That would mean that Ezpanna potentially held a 'Viceroyalty of New Granada/Gran Colombia' which consisted of Colombia, Panama, and Costa Rica (not the RL borders but it works for AMW).

So that leaves El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Jamaica, and Nicaragua. Guatemala can likely retain the RL name regardless of previous coloniser as it is apparently derived from a Nahuatl word, there is already precedent for an ex-Shieldian colony using a more 'native' name (Great Guiana) and the Hispanians could've potentially used the name as the RL Spanish did. El Salvador, Honduras, Jamaica, and Nicaragua have not had their names established so that's a free-for-all. If TCB would like for Ezpanna to have owned the 'Captaincy General of Guatemala' (minus Mexico's Chiapa State as I haven't claimed it) and thus the successor states are all Hispanian then that's fine, if you guys want to have split it in some way that some successor states are more Shieldian and others more Hispanian then that's also fine.

I think all that made sense, at least I hope it did

[Iansisle]

To start with military matters, you are at least in a bit better shape than I am. I'll admit I haven't done a deep dive into prototypes and abandoned designs, but so far as I can determine Portugal's domestic defense industry appears to consist of:

-- Licensed production of foreign APCs, assault rifles, and light ammunition
-- A couple submachine guns
-- one class of <100t displacement patrol vessels
-- some drones similar to the ones I could purchase at BestBuy

I think we can extrapolate a moderately better industrialized Shield, at least in the case of shipbuilding (I think we'll still be committed to the avisos concept and I don't know if we'll be able to get them elsewhere) but most of our equipment is going to have to come from outside. This could prove difficult as I am anticipating the Shield will regard the threat level from Ezpanna as somewhere between "existential" and "apocalyptic" (whatever the actual case may prove) and will be looking to rapidly militarize. Perhaps international loans can be floated on the anticipation of tourism resuming with the stability of the Ranalte regime, only for the investors to find their money channeled more into defense spending than rebuilding bombed out hotels.

In terms of size and composition, I'm going to assume that the Shield is roughly a decade into introducing universal conscription, maintaining around 90k active men and women, with hundreds of thousands more in the reserves. We'll have a lot more equipment than RL Portugal but of considerably lower quality. Probably most of it at least a generation behind, perhaps with some more modern elite units. In my mind, I think it would be thematically appropriate if the Shield and Ezpanna had some clear differences in their kit, so if Ezpanna is planning on going NATO I'll probably bother Chrin for Russian equipment.

In the Caribbean, it is looking like the Shield concentrated primarily on the southeast. Jamaica comes with plenty of English place names and is right in the sphere of other Shieldian colonies, so that's an easy adaptation. Central America I feel might be better left to Walmington and Ezpanna, although there can be a history of raiding trade posts and swapping claims.

For history, I'm almost positive John Calvin was Swiss. *checks* Ah, born in France, worked in Switzerland. So at least we have the most prominent Reformation figure for LRR's claim! Perhaps we could make Ezpanna vaguely the center of the Lutheran reformation with the understanding if a claim lands in Germany they can take the history back. Or perhaps we can have a branch of Protestantism which is functionally identical to Lutheranism but which can exist alongside it once someone does move to Germany. It would make sense for reform to originate on the Shield, as I have it in my mind for the local Church to be extraordinarily corrupt but in a sort of passive, lazy way that both encourages rebellion and allows it to grow. Lots of selling of indulgences, large sums embezzled, plenty of incompetent and impious nephews elevated to bishoprics, that sort of thing.

I do love the concept of rebellious princes within the empire riding the tiger of revolution only to find their titles striped as Ezpanna consolidates from a coalition of angry lords into a unitary theocratic-ish state. This is all your decision, of course, as it affects my claim only very slightly, so long as you agree to the concept of a federalized Grand Empire with influence over much of the Iberian peninsula. Particular areas that would make sense for heavily Shieldian populations and as a target of irredentism would seem to be western Andalusia, Galicia, and Extremadura.

Interesting you should mention Walmington as a potential Shieldian ally. I had considered that based on their ethnicity and our geography, but I think there would probably be too much rivalry between the two, especially in the Spice Isles, for any long-term cooperation. In my imagination, the Shield tried to play the British game of jumping from coalition to coalition to unbalance whichever power seemed dominant at the time, albeit less successfully than the RL analogue. I'm especially eager to hear from E-P on this point about what France was up to at various points through this history and what their agenda would have been. Perhaps shattering the Grand Empire was a priority of France's, much as was keeping the Germans disunited in RL? It could be the Reformer princes were on the edge of defeat when Catholic France sweeps in to prevent a consolidation of the High King's power?

As for provoking a response from Ezpanna during the Revolution, I would propose the regicide, although it seems unlikely Ezpanna would be overly concerned about that. Perhaps, much like before, the Republic moves in to crush the quasi-independent Movers in Weshield following sectarian strife there? Either way, a half-hearted sally resulting in even a partial victory for the defending forces works just fine for me. It's better, even, if initial engagements favor the Basques but then Ranalte halts their advance (and how much of this is due to his tactical genius versus lack of will from Ezpanna can be adjusted depending on what you prefer).

Much like in Gandvik, I imagine the Shield will be attempting a primarily non-military intervention in Ezpanna, likely trying to stir up local opposition to the government, stoking Catholic anger against Protestants, and looking for opportunities to engage in deniable terrorism and assassinations. Ranalte, meanwhile, is dreaming about a campaign to recover what he sees as rightfully Shieldian provinces along the border, using an operation against the radical holdouts in the Maldives (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=481033) as a way to get his potential spearhead actual combat experience. It's perhaps ironic that the revolutionary Shield will end up being more oppressive than autocratic Ezpanna. Ranalte talks a good game, pretends to respect the rule of law and democracy, but is in fact warping the country into an instrument of his personal will. He is more than willing to deploy the COE and the rest of the intelligence community into suppressing dissent, often in a bloody manner. However, due to his personal popularity, the (somewhat inflated) sense of crisis, and the violence of the radical Republic, most are willing to ignore his vainglorious pursuits. While Ranalte might not in fact command the 95%+ margins he claims in national elections, it is clear he is widely popular with the majority of Shieldians.

Going back into history, I would like some level of internecine Shieldian strife, likely born out of the rivalry between Weshield and Shadoran, and probably concentrated around the increasing authority of the High King in the years following the loss of the eastern provinces. Before I commit to time periods for such self-dealing pursuits, however, I would like to get some dates nailed down for our international engagements!

[Europe - Prussia]

You called people? I see there's a couple of questions, so I'll try to answer:

First, history: as I said in my application, the history of my claim will stick as closely to ours until Napoleon, but with the change that the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) was formed as France at its core, ehich means that the Capets, Valois and Bourbons not only were Kings of France ( a much more fragmented France) but also emperors of the HRE. Think of them as more autocratic Habsburgs, if such a thing is even possible.

So yes, if you want french aggresion that totally doable, but take into consideration what I just said. Imagine, for example, the regin of Louis XIV: he would have tried to be as aggresive as he was during our history, but the crown of the HRE could be a constrain on any kind of hostile maneuver, depending on his objectives. There's also geography to consider: as I said on my application post, France before Napoleon was pretty much like Germany before its unification. In fact, Gascony and Touluse were (and still are within the Alliance) de facto independent, so crossing the Pyrenees could prove problematic because, you know, the HRE, the rights of the imperial princes and all of that crap.

Now, about TCB's request, provisionally I can say yes to your request, at least until I can figure out all the equipment Alliance forces will be using; I'm well versed on France's defense industry, but not so much (almost zero) regarding the other parts of my claim. Licenses are also possible, as the Alliance would use them as an excuse to influence Ezpanna, in the hopes it becomes and observer, or associate, of the Alliance.

Also, I hope you don't mind some Alliance intervention on your thread Ian, as their interests on the peninsula doesn't end on Ezpanna

[The Kingdom of Apilonia]

This is largely a TAG post, to ensure I keep abreast of posts to this thread.

With regards to military equipment, I think it is safe to say that the Kingdom would be open to supplying military arms to friendly and neutral nations. Older generation technology, such as the Oliver Hazard Perry and Knox class frigates, would absouletely be available, as would more modern designs subject to confirmation, the F-16 and the like. For more 'cutting edge' technology, likely not be available save for any close-allies that the Kingdom might develop. Never the less, the Kingdom's aerospace, naval shipbuilding and other military/defence would all be interested in foreign military sales, and the Crown would authorise them to all but 'threat' nations.