AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Chrinthanium]

Barring any objections, a new AMW map will be up tonight. It will include a changed Chrinthania and a correction to the spelling of Chemaki's claim from Rumnika to Romnika. Check the current map and, if something is missing from it, please let me know here.

Speaking of Chrinthania, I think I'll take Amerique's suggestion to use Preston John as the impetus for some people to come to Chrinthania. This will be in the hope they find it, when they don't, after such a travel, they just kind of stay and create what will become the Empire of Chrinthania. These folks will be vaguely English. They could be Walmingtonian, they could be Shieldian, some mix of the two... who knows. I suppose I can leave it vague as in how they get that far south and leave it up to future claims to assist. Whatever the route, however they do it, they will land somewhere in the Northwest of Australia and move Eastward over time.

My fear is that this thing becomes too religiously influenced, though, if Preston John is the reason for its discovery. Which, really, makes sense in the early modern period (1500s/1600s onward, I presume), but the modern empire is nothing like that. Things aren't done in the name of God, but in the name of the people.

I may or may not play up Polynesia influence in the claim partly because pre-AMW Chrinthanium's rough idea had some Polynesian-ish influence. I have to do a reality check on how some of it worked before versus how it can jive in AMW. I may have the Polynesians coming into Papua New Guinea, Solomons, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, New Zealand, and into eastern Australia. Bad news for the Melanesians, I know. Not certain how that will play out against the Australian Aboriginal populations who arrived in Australia before the Polynesians migrated throughout the Pacific. That should be fun.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS EDIT:

Furthermore, I'm turning Vauatu into our own Balaeric Islands with lots of clubs and college students doing stupid things while drunk and/or taking a gap year there. That's what the "Winter Islands" were in Pre-AMW Chrinthanium's rough idea: a party archipelago where the rich or those who spend like it could cut loose. The Chrinthani term for going there for a long party weekend is Taking a Winter, so yeah. For those who really want to know: they were discovered in Winter, hence the name. Uninspiring name, I know.

The Benson Islands (RL Solomon Islands) are similar to Hawaii in this claim. While not actually Hawaii, it'll retain the kind of tourist destination, beach getaway fun for those who think Chrinthania's mainland is too crowded.

MORE ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS EDIT:

This time, we're going for a full Constitutional Monarchy where Nate doesn't have to govern. This should allow him more flexibility in his life while giving the nation a little more intentional realism. It will also give me a chance to see how much trouble he can truly get into.

[Chrinthanium]

I have arrived at the first outline of Chrinthani History. As always, it is open to general questions/comments.... it's a rough idea of how Chrinthanium becomes what it is today.

1517: Jessup Croft departs Europe with around 1500 followers to find the fabled Preston John and his kingdom
1523: Croft and his ships are adrift in the Indian Ocean where a cyclone aims them in the direction of Western Chrinthanium
1524: Croft and his followers, now numbering around 700 still living, land in modern-day Freemantle near the future Chrinthani city of Preston (RL Perth, WA).
1527: Croft declares himself King Alexander after realizing that Preston John does not live in Chrinthanium and he cannot return to Europe
1528: Alexander I makes contact with Aboriginals, later on, the Aboriginal population would see mass death as European plagues wipe out 95% of all Aboriginals within 100 years
1530: Croft and his men press Eastward, found colony of Dania (RL Western Australia)
1533: Colony of Andoria founded (RL South Australia).
1535-1575: Colonies of Carpentaria, Noventia, Pacifica, and Victoria founded. "Chrinthanium" the unofficial term for the continent based on a bastardization of a local word (historians still debating which word)
1575: King Alexander I dies at 72, son Robert becomes Nicholas I
1575-1625: News reaches Europe of Croft and his adventures, sparks wave of European immigration; Nicholas I died in 1602, son Andrew becomes Alexander II
1644: Alexander II died, his son Nathaniel becomes Nathaniel I and declares himself an Emperor
1670-1700: Maori arrive in Eastern Chrinthanium, esablish contact at present-day Kira (RL Brisbane); Nathaniel I died in 1671, Nicholas II becomes Emperor; Nicholas II died in 1700, Nicholas III becomes emperor
1720-1740: The Polynesian Wars in which Maori and Chrinthani fight with Chrinthani eventually winning, Aoteoroa annexed into empire by Treaty of Maui (RL Wellington); Nicholas III died in 1740, David I becomes Emperor
1741-1745: David I adds Winter Islands, Chancellor Islands, Benson Islands, Hampton Island, and the large islands of Little Chrinthanium into the empire.
1745-1750: Establishment of new capital at Darionopolis (RL Canberra)
1752: David I died, David II becomes Emperor
1755-1765: Civil War breaks out and rages between Republican and Imperial factions; war ends March 15, 1765 after David II is killed in battle by Republican forces. Republic of Chrinthanium declared
1766: Matthew Robinson becomes Lord Protector of Chrinthanium on 14 April 1766, is assassinated 10 days later by Imperial forces; Alexander III placed on throne as Emperor
1775: After nearly a decade of brutal, tyrannical rule, Nicholas Thornton, Emperor Alexander III's top general, executes a coup d'état. Alexander III is beheaded in Sydney. Thornon declared emperor by Imperial Army. House of Thornton established. Reigns as Henry I
1790: Henry I dies, Nicholas IV takes throne. Rebellion of Venetia (RL Sydney) quelled
1820: Expense of expanding takes its toll on the economy. Future plans of expansion placed on hold; Nicholas IV dies, Richard I takes throne
1822-1850: Richard I reign sees improvements to Imperial holdings including massive public works which include the building of libraries, universities, schools, and public squares.
1850: Richard I passes, his son Richard II succeeds.
1851: Richard II dies from influenza, his younger brother, Alexander succeeds as Richard III
1852: Richard III outlaws slavery altogether within the empire. All exslaves given full citizenship.
1853: Richard III establishes Chrinthani National University
1855: Richard III passes from an injury received during a horse riding accident, his younger brother Nicholas succeeds as Emperor George I
1898: George I dies, George II succeeds.
1901: George II transitions empire to Constitutional Monarchy
1947: George II dies. His son, George III succeeds.
1949: George III died, his son Henry II succeeds
1963: Henry II died, Henry III succeeds
1992: Henry III dies, his son, Nicholas V succeeds.
2013: Nicholas V dies of sudden heart attack near Darwin, his son Nathaniel IV succeeds.

[Chrinthanium]

Well, I want to start building websites. Perhaps not for a living, but I do find that I like knowing how to do it. So, I needed a guinea pig to test my abilities on. Guess what works for a great and awesome subject for a guinea pig? AMW! Yes, folks, AMW works amazing for this.

What does this mean? Well, yours truly will be working on a website for AMW to hone my skills. What the website will (eventually) come to be will be something where you can go to the website, log in, gain access to both an offsite forum AND a wiki for AMW. Integrating the website, wiki, and forums into a single log on interface where one login gets you into every other part of the website. Furthermore, a simple page dedicated to accessing the AMW IRC could be put up there with little industry on my part (they have scripts for that now).

So, as I get it set up, I will link you all the progress. Who knows, if it's any good, we can keep it as a new offsite.

[Chrinthanium]

Here's what I'm doing in this "guinea pig" phase. I have secured a domain and web hosting for quite a steal, which is what prompted me to do this live as opposed to doing it on my computer. The first phase is being created right now which is a wiki software called MediaWiki, the same software that powers Wikipedia and various other wikis. I've also installed phpBB on the site, which is the same forum software as NS.

I am currently in the process of building the backbone of the wiki features which amounts to importing a lot of things from Wikipedia. What has to be imported are certain scripts and infoboxes that we would utilize in our efforts to display our national information and other segments of our AMW nations. Infoboxes aren't as simple as importing the box itself. Many times these are backed by lots of modules and templates that help them operate. So, this could be a lengthy initial process.

This weekend will be the first big push to produce a live wiki that can be utilized by AMW members wanting a wiki-style factbook for their nation.

I have also been led to believe there is a way, time consuming as it may well be, that the information currently contained within our current offsite can be imported. The information I am reading is conflicting, though, so I give it about a 50/50 chance of happening. Rest assured I will do my utmost to make it happen if it is at all possible.

EDIT: Just so you're aware, the ultimate goal is to showcase AMW via a website that is fully integrated with its individual components. You would be able to pull up the website, log into it, update your wiki, post on the forum, and whatever else is integrated into the website. If the group likes the final results, hosting isn't expensive for a small website like our and could easily be maintained after it is built and I would be willing to do this.

If my calculations are correct, I can have the basics up and running in a few weeks and, potentially, the whole shebang within a month or two.

[The Crooked Beat]

Hi everyone,

Some thoughts have recently been taking shape, prompted in large part by discussions with BG on Soviet India, as to Gandvik's past and possible present as a colonial power, and apart from the likely Gandvian presence on the Indian subcontinent, I've been thinking that it might make some sense, in terms of imperial strategic logic, to connect the Pondicherry colonies and Vladivostok (Kullansarvi, I think it will be called, for AMW purposes) by some mid-way stepping-stones. Sumatra in particular has begun to appeal to me as perhaps the other big jewel in Gandvik's imperial crown (nowadays presumably the only one, unless of course you count the contiguous Far East), while its position between the two major communist powers would also seem to offer some interesting RPing possibilities.

With the slow-moving change in Gandvik's government now, I suppose, gathering a bit of momentum, a new ruling element which both professes socialism as its guiding principle and which is bitterly hostile in professional terms to Riga's pro-colonial faction will undoubtedly be seeking to grant the last remnants of the Gandvian East Indies empire immediate independence, an objective which, I think, could run into the following complications:

1. Colonial administrators on the spot would probably already enjoy considerable autonomy from Riga, and might not choose to implement the directives of a new government which colonial authorities could well despise on ideological as well as professional grounds.
2. There would be little love lost between the colonial army and the metropolitan army, the former, probably all-professional, perhaps considering itself an elite compared to the conscripted metropolitan forces and also free from the latter's socialist and anarchist infiltrations, so whatever the intentions of the formal colonial government, there would undoubtedly exist a potentially quite sizable hard core of soldiers viscerally committed to the colonial principle and unlikely to be much impressed by the appeals of their ostensible comrades.
3. In conjunction with points one or two, or both, foreign powers, perhaps Walmington, Amerique, and Valendia either in coalition or separately, might see themselves compelled to intervene in order to contain a new outbreak of communism and to preserve the Western world's hold over that last-remaining big colony.
4. Colonial administrative policy most likely would have embraced a divide-and-rule strategy with respect to relations between ethnic and religious communities, which could end up being split between the descendants of migrant laborers brought in from the Indian subcontinent while Gandvik still owned a sizable chunk of it, native Sumatrans, and a much smaller though almost certainly strongly-favored segment of at least several million Europeans or at least part-Europeans, leftovers of various deportations or 'incentivized emigrations' of troublesome communities from metropolitan Gandvik. Class-based or cross-cultural organizations would have been suppressed as much as possible by the colonial government, leading perhaps to an all-too-familiar crisis in trust and security. This could equally offer interested regional and external powers an open door to intervene.
5. Such communist organizations as do exist on Sumatra might be split-up between Indian and Drapoel tendencies, which could face a bit of controversy, in light of the sudden change of circumstances. It could appear that an opportunity has arisen for a sudden seizure of power by one party to the exclusion of its competitors, though then again I may be playing up the differences between Indian and Drapoel doctrines more than is warranted.

Anyhow, does this seem like a decent idea, or just a pointless distraction?

[Beddgelert]

Works for me.

A colony that large, on the edge of the Indin ocean, would possibly serve to protect concession ports on the sub continent by virtue of it being given higher priority in Soviet anti-imperialist* doctrine. We'd have to get involved lest Dra-pol beat us to it and be left fighting an unlikely Anglo-Gandvian alliance for control of the Malacca Strait.

So long as you're okay with becoming the focus for global conflict, I suppose. At least you'd not be Bonstocked.


*Haha! Good job I proof-read; auto-correct turned that to, "anti-Yorkshire" for reasons I can only imagine!

[Chrinthanium]

Works for me.

A colony that large, on the edge of the Indin ocean, would possibly serve to protect concession ports on the sub continent by virtue of it being given higher priority in Soviet anti-imperialist* doctrine. We'd have to get involved lest Dra-pol beat us to it and be left fighting an unlikely Anglo-Gandvian alliance for control of the Malacca Strait.

So long as you're okay with becoming the focus for global conflict, I suppose. At least you'd not be Bonstocked.


*Haha! Good job I proof-read; auto-correct turned that to, "anti-Yorkshire" for reasons I can only imagine!

Interbred Yorkshire scum!

[Chemaki]

Hi everyone,

[Very decent idea and certainly more interesting and engaging than anything the AMW community has come up with in the past few months]

Anyhow, does this seem like a decent idea, or just a pointless distraction?

Think it's time to book a holiday to Sumatra, Beeg?

I'm all on board for this - it would give me one of very few opportunities to engage in some political roleplay outside of the Middle East and also build up a little story to how Soviet India and Romnika co-operate, and to a lesser extent Romnika and Dra-Pol, the fractuous tripartite of Communist powers.

Certainly Romnika would see it as an auspicious opportunity to finally project power beyond its own borders, albeit in a supporting role to any larger Indian (or, if things got very desperate) Draopel actions to establish a Communist stronghold in Sumatra. With a vastly inflated military spending having been funneled heavily into an as-of-yet untested (beyond the occasional insurgents) airforce and (virtually entirely) untested navy, the Sumatran crisis would be a proving ground whereby the generals of the Holy Land could test and refine their doctrine, and perhaps set a precedent for Romnikae power projection in the Indian ocean. Not to mention, the ability to land a blow at an unreachable power which has been arming Chingiz - who is currently (or perhaps perpetually) in preparation for a bloody conquest of Jerusalem (and all the other major Romnikae cities in the way) - is a very juicy cherry on top. Oh, and something about helping out the Communist cause, rather indirectly through using Sumatra as a training ground-cum-firing range.

[Chrinthanium]

Hi everyone,

Some thoughts have recently been taking shape, prompted in large part by discussions with BG on Soviet India, as to Gandvik's past and possible present as a colonial power, and apart from the likely Gandvian presence on the Indian subcontinent, I've been thinking that it might make some sense, in terms of imperial strategic logic, to connect the Pondicherry colonies and Vladivostok (Kullansarvi, I think it will be called, for AMW purposes) by some mid-way stepping-stones. Sumatra in particular has begun to appeal to me as perhaps the other big jewel in Gandvik's imperial crown (nowadays presumably the only one, unless of course you count the contiguous Far East), while its position between the two major communist powers would also seem to offer some interesting RPing possibilities.

With the slow-moving change in Gandvik's government now, I suppose, gathering a bit of momentum, a new ruling element which both professes socialism as its guiding principle and which is bitterly hostile in professional terms to Riga's pro-colonial faction will undoubtedly be seeking to grant the last remnants of the Gandvian East Indies empire immediate independence, an objective which, I think, could run into the following complications:

1. Colonial administrators on the spot would probably already enjoy considerable autonomy from Riga, and might not choose to implement the directives of a new government which colonial authorities could well despise on ideological as well as professional grounds.
2. There would be little love lost between the colonial army and the metropolitan army, the former, probably all-professional, perhaps considering itself an elite compared to the conscripted metropolitan forces and also free from the latter's socialist and anarchist infiltrations, so whatever the intentions of the formal colonial government, there would undoubtedly exist a potentially quite sizable hard core of soldiers viscerally committed to the colonial principle and unlikely to be much impressed by the appeals of their ostensible comrades.
3. In conjunction with points one or two, or both, foreign powers, perhaps Walmington, Amerique, and Valendia either in coalition or separately, might see themselves compelled to intervene in order to contain a new outbreak of communism and to preserve the Western world's hold over that last-remaining big colony.
4. Colonial administrative policy most likely would have embraced a divide-and-rule strategy with respect to relations between ethnic and religious communities, which could end up being split between the descendants of migrant laborers brought in from the Indian subcontinent while Gandvik still owned a sizable chunk of it, native Sumatrans, and a much smaller though almost certainly strongly-favored segment of at least several million Europeans or at least part-Europeans, leftovers of various deportations or 'incentivized emigrations' of troublesome communities from metropolitan Gandvik. Class-based or cross-cultural organizations would have been suppressed as much as possible by the colonial government, leading perhaps to an all-too-familiar crisis in trust and security. This could equally offer interested regional and external powers an open door to intervene.
5. Such communist organizations as do exist on Sumatra might be split-up between Indian and Drapoel tendencies, which could face a bit of controversy, in light of the sudden change of circumstances. It could appear that an opportunity has arisen for a sudden seizure of power by one party to the exclusion of its competitors, though then again I may be playing up the differences between Indian and Drapoel doctrines more than is warranted.

Anyhow, does this seem like a decent idea, or just a pointless distraction?

Quite frankly, with a 570-million odd commie nation on the northern Indian a few shipping days away from me, and Drapol a few hours flight away, I'd rather not have anymore commies nearby. Also, can't you just use Parsistan for this?

[Chemaki]

Quite frankly, with a 570-million odd commie nation on the northern Indian a few shipping days away from me, and Drapol a few hours flight away, I'd rather not have anymore commies nearby. Also, can't you just use Parsistan for this?

I guess the advantage of using an entirely new region, in a relatively unclaimed part of the world is that Gandvik can jump right in without considering a whole myriad of historical and political factors whilst still having enough people nearby (India, Dra-Pol, and WoS/Valendian colonies, and Chrinthania, infamous for its McCarthyite Commie-bashing!) to give most people the opportunity to pitch in.

Also, you get to deal with a bunch of Finno-Indian-Indonesian Communists and their interesting and perhaps rather seductive accents. I'd have to deal with Gandvik's troops right on my border whilst their allies are arming up to attack through the Caucasaus, so no thanks!

[Chrinthanium]

Quite frankly, with a 570-million odd commie nation on the northern Indian a few shipping days away from me, and Drapol a few hours flight away, I'd rather not have anymore commies nearby. Also, can't you just use Parsistan for this?

I guess the advantage of using an entirely new region, in a relatively unclaimed part of the world is that Gandvik can jump right in without considering a whole myriad of historical and political factors whilst still having enough people nearby (India, Dra-Pol, and WoS/Valendian colonies, and Chrinthania, infamous for its McCarthyite Commie-bashing!) to give most people the opportunity to pitch in.

Also, you get to deal with a bunch of Finno-Indian-Indonesian Communists and their interesting and perhaps rather seductive accents. I'd have to deal with Gandvik's troops right on my border whilst their allies are arming up to attack through the Caucasaus, so no thanks!

Too many belligerents nearby for my taste. I can only roughly estimate between Soviet India and Drapol there's around 650-700 million very anti-Chrinthani people nearby, I really don't want to see another 52 million added to that number. Parts of Africa are free. Bangladesh, right between India and Drapol, is also free (now that would be more interesting to me if I were TCB). Again, to reiterate... I don't want 52 million more commies near Chrinthania.

We're not anticommunist. Contrary to popular belief, were roughly Bernie Sanders socialist with a fabulously gay emperor to make it all the more appealing. We disagree with how Soviet India's government goes about its international policy. What they do to their people internally, well, that's their problem, isn't it. We may not agree or disagree, but we'll not remark on it... unlike the Geletians themselves who don't know when not to comment.

[Chemaki]

We're not anticommunist. Contrary to popular belief, were roughly Bernie Sanders socialist with a fabulously gay emperor to make it all the more appealing. We disagree with how Soviet India's government goes about its international policy. What they do to their people internally, well, that's their problem, isn't it. We may not agree or disagree, but we'll not remark on it... unlike the Geletians themselves who don't know when not to comment.

Reactionary dogs, the lot of you! I do agree that Bangladesh is a great position for a Gandvian colony though - nobody is going to really claim a little floodplain with no natural resources and awful natural disasters sandwiched between two huge, very belligerent Communist powers - so its only hope is if someone snaps it up as a colony. It would be nice to fill that space out, and having a land border would add even more pressure to the Indians and Draopel (and thus more juicy political drama).

[Chrinthanium]

We're not anticommunist. Contrary to popular belief, were roughly Bernie Sanders socialist with a fabulously gay emperor to make it all the more appealing. We disagree with how Soviet India's government goes about its international policy. What they do to their people internally, well, that's their problem, isn't it. We may not agree or disagree, but we'll not remark on it... unlike the Geletians themselves who don't know when not to comment.

Reactionary dogs, the lot of you! I do agree that Bangladesh is a great position for a Gandvian colony though - nobody is going to really claim a little floodplain with no natural resources and awful natural disasters sandwiched between two huge, very belligerent Communist powers - so its only hope is if someone snaps it up as a colony. It would be nice to fill that space out, and having a land border would add even more pressure to the Indians and Draopel (and thus more juicy political drama).

See, sounds better to do Bangladesh... and it's more people. And it could be a great spot for the world to focus on in the general fighting between India and Drapol.

[Chemaki]

The only downside I realised, however is that a conflict in Bangladesh could turn very easily into an out and out land war with Dra Pol or India just occupying the colony. If TCB is going for something more subtle like political espionage or a proxy conflict as opposed to a bogstandard military RP, Bangladesh may not be the best of ideas. On the plus side though, it would bring the future Communist population of AMW close to (or just over) the 1 billion mark, so I can't complain!

[Chrinthanium]

The only downside I realised, however is that a conflict in Bangladesh could turn very easily into an out and out land war with Dra Pol or India just occupying the colony. If TCB is going for something more subtle like political espionage or a proxy conflict as opposed to a bogstandard military RP, Bangladesh may not be the best of ideas. On the plus side though, it would bring the future Communist population of AMW close to (or just over) the 1 billion mark, so I can't complain!

I understand, but I object to having yet another commie nation so close to my border.

[Beddgelert]

Wait, Gandvik is Communist, now? How long have I been at work without wi-fi?

[Chrinthanium]

Wait, Gandvik is Communist, now? How long have I been at work without wi-fi?

Hi everyone,

Some thoughts have recently been taking shape, prompted in large part by discussions with BG on Soviet India, as to Gandvik's past and possible present as a colonial power, and apart from the likely Gandvian presence on the Indian subcontinent, I've been thinking that it might make some sense, in terms of imperial strategic logic, to connect the Pondicherry colonies and Vladivostok (Kullansarvi, I think it will be called, for AMW purposes) by some mid-way stepping-stones. Sumatra in particular has begun to appeal to me as perhaps the other big jewel in Gandvik's imperial crown (nowadays presumably the only one, unless of course you count the contiguous Far East), while its position between the two major communist powers would also seem to offer some interesting RPing possibilities.

With the slow-moving change in Gandvik's government now, I suppose, gathering a bit of momentum, a new ruling element which both professes socialism as its guiding principle and which is bitterly hostile in professional terms to Riga's pro-colonial faction will undoubtedly be seeking to grant the last remnants of the Gandvian East Indies empire immediate independence, an objective which, I think, could run into the following complications:

1. Colonial administrators on the spot would probably already enjoy considerable autonomy from Riga, and might not choose to implement the directives of a new government which colonial authorities could well despise on ideological as well as professional grounds.
2. There would be little love lost between the colonial army and the metropolitan army, the former, probably all-professional, perhaps considering itself an elite compared to the conscripted metropolitan forces and also free from the latter's socialist and anarchist infiltrations, so whatever the intentions of the formal colonial government, there would undoubtedly exist a potentially quite sizable hard core of soldiers viscerally committed to the colonial principle and unlikely to be much impressed by the appeals of their ostensible comrades.
3. In conjunction with points one or two, or both, foreign powers, perhaps Walmington, Amerique, and Valendia either in coalition or separately, might see themselves compelled to intervene in order to contain a new outbreak of communism and to preserve the Western world's hold over that last-remaining big colony.
4. Colonial administrative policy most likely would have embraced a divide-and-rule strategy with respect to relations between ethnic and religious communities, which could end up being split between the descendants of migrant laborers brought in from the Indian subcontinent while Gandvik still owned a sizable chunk of it, native Sumatrans, and a much smaller though almost certainly strongly-favored segment of at least several million Europeans or at least part-Europeans, leftovers of various deportations or 'incentivized emigrations' of troublesome communities from metropolitan Gandvik. Class-based or cross-cultural organizations would have been suppressed as much as possible by the colonial government, leading perhaps to an all-too-familiar crisis in trust and security. This could equally offer interested regional and external powers an open door to intervene.
5. Such communist organizations as do exist on Sumatra might be split-up between Indian and Drapoel tendencies, which could face a bit of controversy, in light of the sudden change of circumstances. It could appear that an opportunity has arisen for a sudden seizure of power by one party to the exclusion of its competitors, though then again I may be playing up the differences between Indian and Drapoel doctrines more than is warranted.

Anyhow, does this seem like a decent idea, or just a pointless distraction?

Enough to draw you into it and then, with your overwhelming size, to overtake it and make it communist. Also, Gandvik, much like Chrinthania, is big enough, geographically speaking.

[The United Gulf States]

Impossible! I'm sure the support of one reinforced company of special volunteers from within the Federal Defence Forces could easily lick the Gandvians into shape and see off the Red Menace in Sumatra, in co-operation with other democratic capitalist powers--- assistance which would be lent with no ulterior motives pertaining to any sanctions or boycotts that might exist with reference to the Federacy!

What if we put in some sort of clause in the claim, asserting that -if the Commies win-, none of their players may make a success of Red Sumatra for at least a couple of years real-time, or until the community decides it's okay for them to up their power in then-changed circumstances? If we RP a war there and Hotan kicks everyone's asses by May, it is agreed that Sumatra will remain riven with internal conflict or else blighted by natural or other disaster such that it can't be used to threaten Chrinthania directly any time soon.

(Honestly though, I doubt AMW could move fast enough for it to be a problem!)

[Chemaki]

What if we put in some sort of clause in the claim, asserting that -if the Commies win-, none of their players may make a success of Red Sumatra for at least a couple of years real-time, or until the community decides it's okay for them to up their power in then-changed circumstances? If we RP a war there and Hotan kicks everyone's asses by May, it is agreed that Sumatra will remain riven with internal conflict or else blighted by natural or other disaster such that it can't be used to threaten Chrinthania directly any time soon.

I think that's a great plan, after all these conflicts don't tend to resolve themselves quickly at all, especially for a nation of some 50 million. It would also give some good ideas for roleplay later down the line. Though, I do have one gripe...

(Honestly though, I doubt AMW could move fast enough for it to be a problem!)

Aha! There it is!

[Chrinthanium]

Very well.... do as thou wilt. I just will let you all know that if the communists start doing bombing raids from Sumatra over Chrinthania's northwest corner, Nate will be very cross. That being said, I do not withdraw my object. I just see no point to being a party pooper. Besides, with Allo, Allo on Netflix, the idea of some sort of war-ish thing isn't all that unwelcome at this point. Providing it stays over there. Chrinthania isn't that populous, thus it cannot in anyway formulate a military which can prevent the Communist Celts and Indians from invading anyway... we can only run interference briefly. I prefer the more cloak-and-dagger approach to Communist influence in Chrinthania. That's more interesting to me. So, yeah.. that's where I am at on that topic.

Of course, I am concerned with AMW's lack of motivation. I understand that is why Beddgelert has shifted and caused us all to think a little bit more about our claims. Still, it's becoming business as usual around these part. People set up everything so that they can follow the new momentum, but no one ever actually does anything. "Oh, if you do this, then I can do that and we can work out our history between us." And then.... nothing. That's the AMW way. Everyone seems to be waiting for someone else to make the first move. No one really ever wants to go first, though.

I used to RP a lot... for better or worse. Though, that's back when Kyr and Byz were more likely to be into something less... plot-driven and more character-driven. Most of the current membership are less likely to do the "dreaded" character RP Not to mention most of AMW's membership has intermittent availability at best. So, I find myself trying to come up with ideas that I can keep going mostly single-handedly. Mostly, I got nothin'.

[The Crooked Beat]

Hmm...

While I'd imagine that the twin threats represented by Soviet India and Dra-pol must loom very large in Chrinthani defense planning, it also seems to me that the danger of a physical communist invasion is actually fairly remote. The sheer logistical requirements of such an effort, I think, would defeat it, as a force large enough to overcome Australia's formidable geographical obstacles while simultaneously defeating in battle a military that, if perhaps not the largest out there, is presumably modern and well-equipped, would probably be almost impossible to move across the Indian Ocean except under conditions of total-war mobilization and full air-sea superiority. Not to mention, I'd have to imagine that Walmington and Amerique at least, and possibly other powers such as Valendia and Italy, would step in to aid Chrinthania if the alternative was total red dominance of the Indian Ocean and Southwest Pacific. And that's even assuming that the Celtic and Drapoel brands of communism would see fit to work together, which, as of now anyway, isn't altogether clear (or, perhaps more likely, I've just missed something). As for the possibilities of internal subversion, it may well be that in a free society like that of Chrinthanium a communist party loyal or ostensibly loyal to those foreign powers exists and claims some level of membership, though in order for such an organization to actually take power a whole litany of state and system failures would have to happen first. Modern liberal democracies are pretty resilient, and for a conspiratorial communist movement to succeed, or for a communist party to gain enough of a mass following for it to pull off anything like a revolution, Chrinthania would presumably have to lose a lot of the characteristics that make it Chrinthania first. Repression, it seems fair to say, is often a less effective strategy in such instances than toleration and permissiveness.

As for Sumatra, well, from the perspective of a communist takeover there, it seems like a lot would have to happen first, and, at least according to my own sketchy ideas at the moment, the outcome of that struggle is far from certain. As of the AMW now, in this proposal, Sumatra would be a Gandvian colony at least in de facto terms (though no doubt referred to by some appropriate euphemism), and one which the metropolitan state (large segments of whose bureaucracy and military have been at best lukewarm and at worst hostile toward the colonial project) is now trying to get rid of through the granting of immediate independence, reasoning on the one hand that a socialist state should not have colonies, and on the other that the offloading of a loss-making overseas commitment could well brighten the nation's economic outlook both directly and indirectly (opening up the possibility of trade with Soviet India). So in the near-middle term, I would more imagine Sumatra becoming a kind of Indonesian South Africa or Rhodesia, with the not-insubstantial European-origin ruling minority and economic elite resisting the metropole's calls for full democratization and declaring effective independence (Riga, meanwhile, happily washing its hands of the whole affair).

Then in the longer term we might have a more explicit anticommunist struggle over control of the place.

As always, of course, this is just one more half-baked idea, and before going any further it is essential to hear from a few more of the regional powers.

Regarding Gandvik turning communist, I suppose you can chalk that up to my rather dubious and inconsistent efforts to, well, do something, though in this case maybe doing nothing would be the better option, as I'm making things up as I go along and filling-in backstory according to what appears to be most convenient for modern-day priorities. In effect I've been imagining Gandvik as actually a fairly weak and loosely-governed state, which has recently undergone a series of somewhat shadowy and obscure coups and counter-coups running more or less in parallel to the Gull Flag Revolution, and revolving around a slow-burning struggle between quasi-fascist elements and the regular army, with its leftist-infused junior officer corps. The Civil Guard, I think, will retroactively become more of a private army for the far right, a kind of SS.

In sum, as for this Sumatra plan, I don't know if it is a good idea or not. Maybe, as Chrin points out, this is just another change for the sake of change to mask inactivity (though in my feeble and none-too-convincing defense I would argue that I am, very obliquely, trying to move things along with Gandvik). That's why I'm asking for other opinions on this, naturally. Like most ideas we put forward here, I think it has some potential, and if done correctly, it could be fun and productive. Done correctly, of course, is the key, which is why, if this does go forward, I'd very much like to have at least a substantial portion of the plot out of my hands. And as always, if this just seems like another pointless waste of time, the whole idea can easily be dropped without any great inconvenience.

[Chrinthanium]

Hmm...

While I'd imagine that the twin threats represented by Soviet India and Dra-pol must loom very large in Chrinthani defense planning, it also seems to me that the danger of a physical communist invasion is actually fairly remote. The sheer logistical requirements of such an effort, I think, would defeat it, as a force large enough to overcome Australia's formidable geographical obstacles while simultaneously defeating in battle a military that, if perhaps not the largest out there, is presumably modern and well-equipped, would probably be almost impossible to move across the Indian Ocean except under conditions of total-war mobilization and full air-sea superiority. Not to mention, I'd have to imagine that Walmington and Amerique at least, and possibly other powers such as Valendia and Italy, would step in to aid Chrinthania if the alternative was total red dominance of the Indian Ocean and Southwest Pacific. And that's even assuming that the Celtic and Drapoel brands of communism would see fit to work together, which, as of now anyway, isn't altogether clear (or, perhaps more likely, I've just missed something). As for the possibilities of internal subversion, it may well be that in a free society like that of Chrinthanium a communist party loyal or ostensibly loyal to those foreign powers exists and claims some level of membership, though in order for such an organization to actually take power a whole litany of state and system failures would have to happen first. Modern liberal democracies are pretty resilient, and for a conspiratorial communist movement to succeed, or for a communist party to gain enough of a mass following for it to pull off anything like a revolution, Chrinthania would presumably have to lose a lot of the characteristics that make it Chrinthania first. Repression, it seems fair to say, is often a less effective strategy in such instances than toleration and permissiveness.

As for Sumatra, well, from the perspective of a communist takeover there, it seems like a lot would have to happen first, and, at least according to my own sketchy ideas at the moment, the outcome of that struggle is far from certain. As of the AMW now, in this proposal, Sumatra would be a Gandvian colony at least in de facto terms (though no doubt referred to by some appropriate euphemism), and one which the metropolitan state (large segments of whose bureaucracy and military have been at best lukewarm and at worst hostile toward the colonial project) is now trying to get rid of through the granting of immediate independence, reasoning on the one hand that a socialist state should not have colonies, and on the other that the offloading of a loss-making overseas commitment could well brighten the nation's economic outlook both directly and indirectly (opening up the possibility of trade with Soviet India). So in the near-middle term, I would more imagine Sumatra becoming a kind of Indonesian South Africa or Rhodesia, with the not-insubstantial European-origin ruling minority and economic elite resisting the metropole's calls for full democratization and declaring effective independence (Riga, meanwhile, happily washing its hands of the whole affair).

Then in the longer term we might have a more explicit anticommunist struggle over control of the place.

As always, of course, this is just one more half-baked idea, and before going any further it is essential to hear from a few more of the regional powers.

Regarding Gandvik turning communist, I suppose you can chalk that up to my rather dubious and inconsistent efforts to, well, do something, though in this case maybe doing nothing would be the better option, as I'm making things up as I go along and filling-in backstory according to what appears to be most convenient for modern-day priorities. In effect I've been imagining Gandvik as actually a fairly weak and loosely-governed state, which has recently undergone a series of somewhat shadowy and obscure coups and counter-coups running more or less in parallel to the Gull Flag Revolution, and revolving around a slow-burning struggle between quasi-fascist elements and the regular army, with its leftist-infused junior officer corps. The Civil Guard, I think, will retroactively become more of a private army for the far right, a kind of SS.

In sum, as for this Sumatra plan, I don't know if it is a good idea or not. Maybe, as Chrin points out, this is just another change for the sake of change to mask inactivity (though in my feeble and none-too-convincing defense I would argue that I am, very obliquely, trying to move things along with Gandvik). That's why I'm asking for other opinions on this, naturally. Like most ideas we put forward here, I think it has some potential, and if done correctly, it could be fun and productive. Done correctly, of course, is the key, which is why, if this does go forward, I'd very much like to have at least a substantial portion of the plot out of my hands. And as always, if this just seems like another pointless waste of time, the whole idea can easily be dropped without any great inconvenience.

I suppose I would kind of like to have heard you say that this Sumatra idea was so important to you that you were willing to not give up on it and make it work. I wish there was more passion in AMW. I truly do.

Given this post and the fact that I'm really, really tired of discussing things OOCly with precious little IC activity, I see no reason to be a spoiler and poo poo the idea. As stated before, Nate will be very cross if the Commies begin to invade. Furthermore, in spite of Soviet Beddgelertstan's large forces, the 7.7 million square kilometers that is Australia complete with its deserts and vast open nothingness would not be the easiest to invade since they could, theoretically march halfway across it and not encounter a single town or place of importance. The Chrinthani military is under OOC construction right now, but I suck at putting that stuff together. I would also assume based on convo with Amerique that there will be assistance if the Red Menace decides to act up. I dare say that even Walmington itself might be a potential partner if that ever happened just because they have time to use commandos to put plaques on Chrinthani soil (that's our island!).

If you think this will bring action into AMW, then go for it. It is better to something rather than the mostly nothing we do.

[Beddgelert]

Speaking for the Igovians, I'd anticipate initial willingness and even (not un-opposed) enthusiasm for international solidarity with Kurosite revolutionaries in Sumatra and any Drapoel mission to assist the revolution there, likely collapsing into ideological infighting in the event that the revolutionaries gain the upper hand and appear unlikely to be subdued.

If I had to make a prediction, I'd say that it may take years, but the revolutionaries would eventually bleed off metropolitan support for the Sumatran colonial authorities, forcing Gandvik to abandon the place and the remaining minority establishment to fight for its life and in turn be gradually overwhelmed as foreign bourgeois backers give up on it (except maybe the Gulfers who may see it as an existential struggle themselves?). But as victory draws near, Kurosites and Igovians (and others?) are going to start having different ideas about how to actually run what parts of the country they've freed. It's bound to happen in pockets at first, with different local authorities not necessarily answerable to the same struggle-wide central authority, isn't it? That is assuming the Drapoel get involved at all (though maybe local Kurosites could survive alone, after the Drapoel example; I don't know).

It's hard to see one completely subduing another for a long time to come!

For what it's worth, at the present moment, the Commonwealth is probably not heavily invested in electoral politics in 1st World nations, as the struggle to liberate colonised peoples elsewhere has yet to be addressed and is a higher priority. Advocates of decolonisation might get some support, but there's a suspicion that being seen to meddle would only undermine those candidates or parties and harden right-wing resolve. May as well just get in on the ground and start killing everyone who goes to the colonies and the 3rd World with colonial intentions until they stop coming. Communist candidates in Chrinthani elections will be welcome to various summits etc. in the Commonwealth, but they'll probably recognise that they're not necessarily being seated at the head of the table, and everyone's listening to exiles from prospective-Sumatra, the Pueblos, Spice Islands, oh, well, and maybe Papua, actually!

If there's a direct Soviet threat to the Chrinthani, it's probably to some of the outlying islands that may be less developed and still have larger non-European populations, rather than to the mainland and party-islands. I mean, that's still a serious threat, but one in which the prospect of a Sumatran struggle acts as a barrier against for probably some years to come. Might leave Chrinthania trying to decide whether to stay out of it and deal with the problem when it's on the doorstep in X-years, or get involved on the establishment's side (maybe, as a compromise, that would just entail basing rights 'for the duration' for other powers fighting the Communists).

At least there are possibilities and options for lots of players, here, I think. If no one does anything with all that, then... hm.

[Chrinthanium]

Speaking for the Igovians, I'd anticipate initial willingness and even (not un-opposed) enthusiasm for international solidarity with Kurosite revolutionaries in Sumatra and any Drapoel mission to assist the revolution there, likely collapsing into ideological infighting in the event that the revolutionaries gain the upper hand and appear unlikely to be subdued.

If I had to make a prediction, I'd say that it may take years, but the revolutionaries would eventually bleed off metropolitan support for the Sumatran colonial authorities, forcing Gandvik to abandon the place and the remaining minority establishment to fight for its life and in turn be gradually overwhelmed as foreign bourgeois backers give up on it (except maybe the Gulfers who may see it as an existential struggle themselves?). But as victory draws near, Kurosites and Igovians (and others?) are going to start having different ideas about how to actually run what parts of the country they've freed. It's bound to happen in pockets at first, with different local authorities not necessarily answerable to the same struggle-wide central authority, isn't it? That is assuming the Drapoel get involved at all (though maybe local Kurosites could survive alone, after the Drapoel example; I don't know).

It's hard to see one completely subduing another for a long time to come!

For what it's worth, at the present moment, the Commonwealth is probably not heavily invested in electoral politics in 1st World nations, as the struggle to liberate colonised peoples elsewhere has yet to be addressed and is a higher priority. Advocates of decolonisation might get some support, but there's a suspicion that being seen to meddle would only undermine those candidates or parties and harden right-wing resolve. May as well just get in on the ground and start killing everyone who goes to the colonies and the 3rd World with colonial intentions until they stop coming. Communist candidates in Chrinthani elections will be welcome to various summits etc. in the Commonwealth, but they'll probably recognise that they're not necessarily being seated at the head of the table, and everyone's listening to exiles from prospective-Sumatra, the Pueblos, Spice Islands, oh, well, and maybe Papua, actually!

If there's a direct Soviet threat to the Chrinthani, it's probably to some of the outlying islands that may be less developed and still have larger non-European populations, rather than to the mainland and party-islands. I mean, that's still a serious threat, but one in which the prospect of a Sumatran struggle acts as a barrier against for probably some years to come. Might leave Chrinthania trying to decide whether to stay out of it and deal with the problem when it's on the doorstep in X-years, or get involved on the establishment's side (maybe, as a compromise, that would just entail basing rights 'for the duration' for other powers fighting the Communists).

At least there are possibilities and options for lots of players, here, I think. If no one does anything with all that, then... hm.

Considering the outlying-yet-still-fully-part-of-the-empire islands, the native populations of those islands are so low, it is any wonder why they'd even be on your radar apart from them being in the Indian Ocean. I'm certain you don't feel the same way about the Kermadec Islands as you do about Papua. Once we can figure out how to develop the mineral resource of Papua without destroying the environment, they shall rise to the level of the rest of the Chrinthani. Of course, as citizens, they're able to travel to the mainland for better opportunities if they so desire. There are programs available to them.

[Chrinthanium]

I was reviewing some information that was given to me over the IRC over the last month-ish since I shifted back to the Land Down Under. I have decided to take the advice and make Sydney the capital and eliminate altogether Canberra. The only changes this makes internally is the Sydney will now be called Darionopolis. I won't be renaming anything else. The population of Canberra will be absorbed by Queanbeyan and Queanbeyan will be retain its actual name.

I know no one really cares, but I figured you all might at least want to be kept informed.