AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Walmington on Sea]

Thanks for the prompt replies, good sirs.

2) I could go for taking all of the islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence including the Iles-de-la-Madeleine ((ca.13k)), Saint Pierre & Miquelon ((ca.5.6k)), PEI ((ca.147k)) & Cape Breton ((ca.97k)), plus perhaps the sparsely populated north of Quebec (Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Cote-Nord, Nord-du-Quebec ((ca.412k))); with the rest of the Maritimes and southern Quebec proving impossible to hold with such numerical inferiority. Some heroics from the irregular Legion of Frontiersmen in the wilderness stop American progress at that, given their lack of motivation to traipse hundreds of barren, frozen miles just to liberate some hardcore Protestants who don't want to be liberated.

3) Ireland can have been entirely Walmingtonian until the late C19th if you like. I quite fancy a nod to pre-AMW WoS in saying that the start of it was, “The Newry Rising”, though obviously Newry itself ended up remaining in Walmy hands, probably after a thorough... massacre, which maybe triggered the wider revolt and/or was decisive in securing total rather than arms-length American support. So the only parts that remain Walmy are those relatively close to strongholds at Dublin and Belfast, then the early C20th clash goes more or less as you've described, perhaps the Loyalists sweeping back across some N.Ire countryside before bogging-down, while the defences of The Pale are slowly reduced under blockade, all be it with Republican casualties so high as to put everyone off continuing the war until they've all sat down and figured out how on earth to fight with all these new technologies.

6) Could be. The Walmingtonian navy is never going to be big enough to match all of its enemies everywhere at once, and some sacrifices will have to be made along the way. Perhaps it makes sense for me simply to retain the British territories of Anguilla ((ca.17k)), Cayman Islands ((ca.57k)), British Virgin Islands ((ca.34k)), Turks and Caicos ((ca.51k)), and Montserrat ((ca.5k)). I'm tempted to add Belize, probably as Walmingtonian Honduras ((ca.354k)).

Essentially, WoS would keep most of the British dependant areas (hey, Chrin can have NZ's and Australia's!). Gibraltar raises some questions, but I wouldn't mind having another little, “We're outnumbered so this is getting all kinds of fortified” way-station for our small ships.

I think that I'd prefer to keep Waynesia small. Basically two towns, a couple of big mines, and a lot of desert. Probably four detachments of essentially private militia paid for by Sir Henry's estate to defend the whole place, and maybe a section of Royal Marines in the port. But I'm tempted to add Cabo Verde ((ca.553k)) as another way-point, one initially uninhabited and either first settled by the Amberlanders or else relatively easily taken from a small number of newly arrived foreigners.

I'll compile a more concise list of these mooted territories tomorrow and make a final proposal.

[Chrinthanium]

Thanks for the prompt replies, good sirs.

2) I could go for taking all of the islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence including the Iles-de-la-Madeleine ((ca.13k)), Saint Pierre & Miquelon ((ca.5.6k)), PEI ((ca.147k)) & Cape Breton ((ca.97k)), plus perhaps the sparsely populated north of Quebec (Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Cote-Nord, Nord-du-Quebec ((ca.412k))); with the rest of the Maritimes and southern Quebec proving impossible to hold with such numerical inferiority. Some heroics from the irregular Legion of Frontiersmen in the wilderness stop American progress at that, given their lack of motivation to traipse hundreds of barren, frozen miles just to liberate some hardcore Protestants who don't want to be liberated.

3) Ireland can have been entirely Walmingtonian until the late C19th if you like. I quite fancy a nod to pre-AMW WoS in saying that the start of it was, “The Newry Rising”, though obviously Newry itself ended up remaining in Walmy hands, probably after a thorough... massacre, which maybe triggered the wider revolt and/or was decisive in securing total rather than arms-length American support. So the only parts that remain Walmy are those relatively close to strongholds at Dublin and Belfast, then the early C20th clash goes more or less as you've described, perhaps the Loyalists sweeping back across some N.Ire countryside before bogging-down, while the defences of The Pale are slowly reduced under blockade, all be it with Republican casualties so high as to put everyone off continuing the war until they've all sat down and figured out how on earth to fight with all these new technologies.

6) Could be. The Walmingtonian navy is never going to be big enough to match all of its enemies everywhere at once, and some sacrifices will have to be made along the way. Perhaps it makes sense for me simply to retain the British territories of Anguilla ((ca.17k)), Cayman Islands ((ca.57k)), British Virgin Islands ((ca.34k)), Turks and Caicos ((ca.51k)), and Montserrat ((ca.5k)). I'm tempted to add Belize, probably as Walmingtonian Honduras ((ca.354k)).

Essentially, WoS would keep most of the British dependant areas (hey, Chrin can have NZ's and Australia's!). Gibraltar raises some questions, but I wouldn't mind having another little, “We're outnumbered so this is getting all kinds of fortified” way-station for our small ships.

I think that I'd prefer to keep Waynesia small. Basically two towns, a couple of big mines, and a lot of desert. Probably four detachments of essentially private militia paid for by Sir Henry's estate to defend the whole place, and maybe a section of Royal Marines in the port. But I'm tempted to add Cabo Verde ((ca.553k)) as another way-point, one initially uninhabited and either first settled by the Amberlanders or else relatively easily taken from a small number of newly arrived foreigners.

I'll compile a more concise list of these mooted territories tomorrow and make a final proposal.

Well, Australia's dependent areas and New Zealand's work. Just a little statement that I had already stated about taking Cabo Verde, though, perhaps, I can work around that. Will require a map check and a few calculations.

So, to finalize where the Chrinthani Republic exists, henceforth and forevermore, as follows:

Scotland (without Shetland and Orkney Islands, but retaining the Hebrides), England, Wales, Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Barbados, Australia, New Zealand, French Polynesia, Australian Dependent Territories (Ashmore and Cartier Islands, Christmas Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands, Coral Sea Islands, Heard Island and McDonald Islands, Norfolk Island), New Zealand Dependent Territories (Cook Islands, Niue, Tokelau). IN losing the Orkney and Shetland Islands as well as Cabo Verde, I will take Canaries to compensate, which adds to the overall population by around 1.5 million bringing the total Chrinthani population worldwide to 93,069,591. That's the Chrinthani Republic with all of her territories, regions, outlying islands, and other legal definitions sure to excite Venn Diagram makers everywhere.

[Walmington on Sea]

Oh, had you? Sorry, must have lost that in the mire of all these outposts between us!

I'm just looking for a small way-station as much of Walmington's history is going to have involved small vessels making ambitious voyages. I could use an alternative such as Dakar Region of Senegal, or even just part of the peninsula, perhaps walling it off between Pikine and Rufisque... that could be interesting in future.

Either way can work quite well, I think. If you'd prefer Cabo Verde, that's fine with me.



I realise also that I skipped over your mention of sharing British military equipment.

We can work at least some of it out (especially historically) by my tendency in the past to have WoS use a lot of lesser-known and, "what-might-have-been" British designs. For example, WoS used a variant of the P.14 rifle rather than the Lee-Enfields, and I'm happy to go back to using the likes of the Martin-Baker MB.2/3/5 fighters so the Spits and Hurricanes are for the taking. Until relatively recently Britain had so many things going on that we could have shared them out.

One stand-out issue might be that WoS need Maxim! We required something to mitigate the numerical advantage literally every enemy ever would have over us! Problem? Machine-gun it. Problem solved.

These days, WoS uses the experimental EM-2 rifles and Taden machine-gun, which the Tories abandoned as reaching insufficiently far up America's backside, so WoS uses no current British military small-arms (well, almost none; there are surely enough sniper rifles to go around).

Australia and New Zealand offer a few cancelled projects and oddities. Historically, WoS could keep the Sten-Gun because Chrinthania has the far superior Owen, from Aus. Similarly, some wartime cruiser tanks could stay Walmy as the Aussie Sentinel can do what they can do and was probably less likely to go on fire in the process. Both Aus and NZ developed relatively modern training aircraft, most of which never went ahead but potentially could. The CAC CA-23 supersonic fighter might have served until relatively recently, and the CA-31 fast trainer might still work as a light fighter (though I'm not sure how happy I'd be teaching rookies to land fast jets in something like that).

The Australian Light Destroyer project might have come to something given your greater resources. Perhaps you could use an evolution of that project and say that it's currently nearing the end of its life and being gradually replaced with the new British Type 45 Destroyer and upcoming British frigate, while WoS gets the likes of the Type-23 frigate and Type-42 destroyer, being followed by the cancelled Types 43 and 44.

I'll also happily use cancelled or failed British tanks and artillery projects, with the assumption that they went somewhere when given state support rather than merely being private ventures. Things like the VFM light tank, other Vickers commercial tank designs, LIMAWS rocket launcher, and Portee artillery system may better suit my empire of small, far-flung outposts to which we'd really struggle to ship sixty-tonne battle-tanks in meaningful strength at the blink of an eye. That said, I'm hoping that Ian will still be open to some historic co-operation on the likes of absurdly massive Soviet/Ukrainian transport aircraft!

Generally, I'm willing to go with these less-ambitious options for the same reason that I'll not be taking Britain's ballistic-missile submarines, despite the offer! This much-reduced WoS can't support them! I'd like to keep the Upholder Class conventional submarine (you've the Collins, after all). If WoS has any aircraft carriers, it'll have to be the Invincible Class (and with it, the Harriers, obviously). You've the Canberra Class for amphibious... generally, if we go with you using Aussie first, and British when there's no Aussie alternative, I think we'll get half way, at least, if you don't mind that strategy.

I'd also be interested in trading some British equipment for Singaporean. Please, take the Bionix armoured vehicle and give me the Warrior; purely because it looks a bit more Walmingtonian, to my eye at least.

Well, I suppose there's unlikely to be a rush. Eventually I will try to rationalise the smaller Walmingtonian military and come to you if I see any potential conflicts of interest, rather than trying to work it all out now. As you were!

[Chrinthanium]

Oh, had you? Sorry, must have lost that in the mire of all these outposts between us!

I'm just looking for a small way-station as much of Walmington's history is going to have involved small vessels making ambitious voyages. I could use an alternative such as Dakar Region of Senegal, or even just part of the peninsula, perhaps walling it off between Pikine and Rufisque... that could be interesting in future.

Either way can work quite well, I think. If you'd prefer Cabo Verde, that's fine with me.



I realise also that I skipped over your mention of sharing British military equipment.

We can work at least some of it out (especially historically) by my tendency in the past to have WoS use a lot of lesser-known and, "what-might-have-been" British designs. For example, WoS used a variant of the P.14 rifle rather than the Lee-Enfields, and I'm happy to go back to using the likes of the Martin-Baker MB.2/3/5 fighters so the Spits and Hurricanes are for the taking. Until relatively recently Britain had so many things going on that we could have shared them out.

One stand-out issue might be that WoS need Maxim! We required something to mitigate the numerical advantage literally every enemy ever would have over us! Problem? Machine-gun it. Problem solved.

These days, WoS uses the experimental EM-2 rifles and Taden machine-gun, which the Tories abandoned as reaching insufficiently far up America's backside, so WoS uses no current British military small-arms (well, almost none; there are surely enough sniper rifles to go around).

Australia and New Zealand offer a few cancelled projects and oddities. Historically, WoS could keep the Sten-Gun because Chrinthania has the far superior Owen, from Aus. Similarly, some wartime cruiser tanks could stay Walmy as the Aussie Sentinel can do what they can do and was probably less likely to go on fire in the process. Both Aus and NZ developed relatively modern training aircraft, most of which never went ahead but potentially could. The CAC CA-23 supersonic fighter might have served until relatively recently, and the CA-31 fast trainer might still work as a light fighter (though I'm not sure how happy I'd be teaching rookies to land fast jets in something like that).

The Australian Light Destroyer project might have come to something given your greater resources. Perhaps you could use an evolution of that project and say that it's currently nearing the end of its life and being gradually replaced with the new British Type 45 Destroyer and upcoming British frigate, while WoS gets the likes of the Type-23 frigate and Type-42 destroyer, being followed by the cancelled Types 43 and 44.

I'll also happily use cancelled or failed British tanks and artillery projects, with the assumption that they went somewhere when given state support rather than merely being private ventures. Things like the VFM light tank, other Vickers commercial tank designs, LIMAWS rocket launcher, and Portee artillery system may better suit my empire of small, far-flung outposts to which we'd really struggle to ship sixty-tonne battle-tanks in meaningful strength at the blink of an eye. That said, I'm hoping that Ian will still be open to some historic co-operation on the likes of absurdly massive Soviet/Ukrainian transport aircraft!

Generally, I'm willing to go with these less-ambitious options for the same reason that I'll not be taking Britain's ballistic-missile submarines, despite the offer! This much-reduced WoS can't support them! I'd like to keep the Upholder Class conventional submarine (you've the Collins, after all). If WoS has any aircraft carriers, it'll have to be the Invincible Class (and with it, the Harriers, obviously). You've the Canberra Class for amphibious... generally, if we go with you using Aussie first, and British when there's no Aussie alternative, I think we'll get half way, at least, if you don't mind that strategy.

I'd also be interested in trading some British equipment for Singaporean. Please, take the Bionix armoured vehicle and give me the Warrior; purely because it looks a bit more Walmingtonian, to my eye at least.

Well, I suppose there's unlikely to be a rush. Eventually I will try to rationalise the smaller Walmingtonian military and come to you if I see any potential conflicts of interest, rather than trying to work it all out now. As you were!

Maxim is yours. I see no reason we can't do with something else within the British arsenal or, indeed, buy from outsiders. Also, regarding Cabo Verde, I'm happier with Canary Islands. Less likely to take a hurricane strike and more populous. It would be the only Chrinthani territory in the Western Hemisphere that had over 1 million people contained on it outside of the Chrinthani home island.

As far as those cancelled projects as Walmingtonian, the Maxim, the Warrior/Bionix exchange, Aussie-first British-second.. all that works. I will state that Invincible-class carriers weren't in my plans at all, so that's fine. I was going to press ahead with bringing the Queen Elizabeth-class online when it can be so done all the while using amphib assault ships for the time being. I was actually reading about the Collins and it seems they're working on/have worked on trying to smooth out some of the bugs from its initial productions.

Quite delighted to be working with you in all of this. All of this is very wonderful and I think we're working within an agreement where we're both happy.

So, now to a finalized claim I go!

[Amerique]

Thanks for the prompt replies, good sirs.

2) I could go for taking all of the islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence including the Iles-de-la-Madeleine ((ca.13k)), Saint Pierre & Miquelon ((ca.5.6k)), PEI ((ca.147k)) & Cape Breton ((ca.97k)), plus perhaps the sparsely populated north of Quebec (Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Cote-Nord, Nord-du-Quebec ((ca.412k))); with the rest of the Maritimes and southern Quebec proving impossible to hold with such numerical inferiority. Some heroics from the irregular Legion of Frontiersmen in the wilderness stop American progress at that, given their lack of motivation to traipse hundreds of barren, frozen miles just to liberate some hardcore Protestants who don't want to be liberated.

3) Ireland can have been entirely Walmingtonian until the late C19th if you like. I quite fancy a nod to pre-AMW WoS in saying that the start of it was, “The Newry Rising”, though obviously Newry itself ended up remaining in Walmy hands, probably after a thorough... massacre, which maybe triggered the wider revolt and/or was decisive in securing total rather than arms-length American support. So the only parts that remain Walmy are those relatively close to strongholds at Dublin and Belfast, then the early C20th clash goes more or less as you've described, perhaps the Loyalists sweeping back across some N.Ire countryside before bogging-down, while the defences of The Pale are slowly reduced under blockade, all be it with Republican casualties so high as to put everyone off continuing the war until they've all sat down and figured out how on earth to fight with all these new technologies.

6) Could be. The Walmingtonian navy is never going to be big enough to match all of its enemies everywhere at once, and some sacrifices will have to be made along the way. Perhaps it makes sense for me simply to retain the British territories of Anguilla ((ca.17k)), Cayman Islands ((ca.57k)), British Virgin Islands ((ca.34k)), Turks and Caicos ((ca.51k)), and Montserrat ((ca.5k)). I'm tempted to add Belize, probably as Walmingtonian Honduras ((ca.354k)).

Essentially, WoS would keep most of the British dependant areas (hey, Chrin can have NZ's and Australia's!). Gibraltar raises some questions, but I wouldn't mind having another little, “We're outnumbered so this is getting all kinds of fortified” way-station for our small ships.

I think that I'd prefer to keep Waynesia small. Basically two towns, a couple of big mines, and a lot of desert. Probably four detachments of essentially private militia paid for by Sir Henry's estate to defend the whole place, and maybe a section of Royal Marines in the port. But I'm tempted to add Cabo Verde ((ca.553k)) as another way-point, one initially uninhabited and either first settled by the Amberlanders or else relatively easily taken from a small number of newly arrived foreigners.

I'll compile a more concise list of these mooted territories tomorrow and make a final proposal.

Hey WoS, I have come out with a few proposals with regard to your "League of Frontiersmen" idea.

Proposal 1 - Simple Lower Canada vs. Rupert's Land split in Quebec. Southern Ontario is also American, while Northern Ontario could be part of the Walmington Frontier or just open. I'd prefer if the Maritimes as a whole was Walmingtonian with this option.

Proposal 2 - Looks a little awkward until someone fills in Ontario but we keep it just to Quebec. I'd split the Maritimes as you proposed in this.

Proposal 3 - The variant with the least headaches for Chrinthanium and for our factbook numbers. All the Maritimes are Walmy, all of Ontario and Quebec including its barren tundra north is American. This is the only variant where I'd take all of Quebec as all of Quebec without Ontario looks very strange and convoluted.

Proposal 4 - Another nifty proposal, the mainland Maritimes and Lower Quebec are American but the Northern Frontier plus all of Anglo-Ontario is Walmingtonian. This would probably require the least renaming of places where Ontario is concerned.

Let me know which you'd prefer.

[Chrinthanium]

Hey WoS, I have come out with a few proposals with regard to your "League of Frontiersmen" idea.

Proposal 1 - Simple Lower Canada vs. Rupert's Land split in Quebec. Southern Ontario is also American, while Northern Ontario could be part of the Walmington Frontier or just open. I'd prefer if the Maritimes as a whole was Walmingtonian with this option.

Proposal 2 - Looks a little awkward until someone fills in Ontario but we keep it just to Quebec. I'd split the Maritimes as you proposed in this.

Proposal 3 - The variant with the least headaches for Chrinthanium and for our factbook numbers. All the Maritimes are Walmy, all of Ontario and Quebec including its barren tundra north is American. This is the only variant where I'd take all of Quebec as all of Quebec without Ontario looks very strange and convoluted.

Proposal 4 - Another nifty proposal, the mainland Maritimes and Lower Quebec are American but the Northern Frontier plus all of Anglo-Ontario is Walmingtonian. This would probably require the least renaming of places where Ontario is concerned.

Let me know which you'd prefer.

Yeah. #3, if I were Walmington. It fits more with his vision, IMHO. Though, I could be wrong.

[Chrinthanium]

Right, the British need a clearly-defined system of where a city's population actually comes from. That is all.

[Chemaki]

This is by no means sold. I'm hearing lots of opinions in messages and on IRC and so forth. I'm only interested in change if it stimulates good RP in AMW. Some people I still want to hear from, some thoughts still to mull.

Lots of options, here.

This is awfully late considering I'm one of your neighbours, and I'm a little torn on the issue. To be honest, I've wanted to downsize Romnika a bit and focus on a second claim, and I never thought the day would come when I would see some of the Balkans free. I'd love to pull out of Turkey almost entirely; the Holy Land itself is already intense enough with all of its culture and history, never mind writing about fictional Cossack hillmen, Galatians and Celtic mercenaries and trying to wrestle with Byzantine/Greek/Roman/ian history. I think even though you did a great job at tidying up history when J&H left, it did leave you in the position where you had to effectively balance two nations with their own separate histories and cultures, and understand entirely if that all became a bit of a headache. I've always found the CSR one of the most fascinating nations, even by AMW standards, and would miss it, though I'm sure you'll do just as splendid a job working in a new claim. Thankfully Romnika hasn't been totally dependent on the CSR despite both nations being socialist, and largely was left to fend by itself, so there's not a huge amount of history that needs rewriting (the Greek/Byzantine history will be the largest issue, but I sincerely doubt anyone who claims the area in the future will completely forego it).

I'm pretty free this week, so will be hopping on the IRC more if you want to chat, or if we as a group need to hash Great War things out in a post-CSR world.

[Walmington on Sea]

2) I could go for taking all of the islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence including the Iles-de-la-Madeleine ((ca.13k)), Saint Pierre & Miquelon ((ca.5.6k)), PEI ((ca.147k)) & Cape Breton ((ca.97k)), plus perhaps the sparsely populated north of Quebec (Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Cote-Nord, Nord-du-Quebec ((ca.412k))); with the rest of the Maritimes and southern Quebec proving impossible to hold with such numerical inferiority. Some heroics from the irregular Legion of Frontiersmen in the wilderness stop American progress at that, given their lack of motivation to traipse hundreds of barren, frozen miles just to liberate some hardcore Protestants who don't want to be liberated.

Hey WoS, I have come out with a few proposals with regard to your "League of Frontiersmen" idea.

Proposal 1 - Simple Lower Canada vs. Rupert's Land split in Quebec. Southern Ontario is also American, while Northern Ontario could be part of the Walmington Frontier or just open. I'd prefer if the Maritimes as a whole was Walmingtonian with this option.

Proposal 2 - Looks a little awkward until someone fills in Ontario but we keep it just to Quebec. I'd split the Maritimes as you proposed in this.

Proposal 3 - The variant with the least headaches for Chrinthanium and for our factbook numbers. All the Maritimes are Walmy, all of Ontario and Quebec including its barren tundra north is American. This is the only variant where I'd take all of Quebec as all of Quebec without Ontario looks very strange and convoluted.

Proposal 4 - Another nifty proposal, the mainland Maritimes and Lower Quebec are American but the Northern Frontier plus all of Anglo-Ontario is Walmingtonian. This would probably require the least renaming of places where Ontario is concerned.

Let me know which you'd prefer.

Are they not all harder than necessary to draw and calculate? I'd have just gone with three of Quebec's 17 regions going to Walmington, and the rest to America, then the islands of the Gulf to WoS. Then maybe America takes some of the mainland in the Maritimes, either leaving Ontario as a wedge into the heart of their map -all be it not an unrealistic one given the lakes and the population concentrations- or expands significantly to take Ontario in whole or part as well.

If I take Ontario, the down-sizing aim goes some way to being derailed, and the centre of population shifts heavily in the New World's favour.

[Chrinthanium]

Hey WoS, I have come out with a few proposals with regard to your "League of Frontiersmen" idea.

Proposal 1 - Simple Lower Canada vs. Rupert's Land split in Quebec. Southern Ontario is also American, while Northern Ontario could be part of the Walmington Frontier or just open. I'd prefer if the Maritimes as a whole was Walmingtonian with this option.

Proposal 2 - Looks a little awkward until someone fills in Ontario but we keep it just to Quebec. I'd split the Maritimes as you proposed in this.

Proposal 3 - The variant with the least headaches for Chrinthanium and for our factbook numbers. All the Maritimes are Walmy, all of Ontario and Quebec including its barren tundra north is American. This is the only variant where I'd take all of Quebec as all of Quebec without Ontario looks very strange and convoluted.

Proposal 4 - Another nifty proposal, the mainland Maritimes and Lower Quebec are American but the Northern Frontier plus all of Anglo-Ontario is Walmingtonian. This would probably require the least renaming of places where Ontario is concerned.

Let me know which you'd prefer.

Are they not all harder than necessary to draw and calculate? I'd have just gone with three of Quebec's 17 regions going to Walmington, and the rest to America, then the islands of the Gulf to WoS. Then maybe America takes some of the mainland in the Maritimes, either leaving Ontario as a wedge into the heart of their map -all be it not an unrealistic one given the lakes and the population concentrations- or expands significantly to take Ontario in whole or part as well.

If I take Ontario, the down-sizing aim goes some way to being derailed, and the centre of population shifts heavily in the New World's favour.

In the interest of being as fair as possible, I'll simply draw a straight line very roughly approximating where the border is in order to give the visual representation of two nations sharing a border that isn't there on the map already. I just don't have a spare hour to sit there and try to "work it out" and make it look as realistic as possible. Sometimes I wonder if it is even worth it to have a partial territory like that. So much work just to get a population and area when one could simply take Quebec as a whole and make everyone's life easier

[Chrinthanium]

This is in no way related directly to the current claims discussions, but it definitely directly related to AMW....

So, I've been hosting images on my own personal Imgur acct for a while and I think what AMW needs is its own, so I've created one. In future, all images that pertain to the group (new/old post markers for the offiste/banners/official maps) will be hosted there. I will, obviously, still host my own photos on mine for my RPing (if needed). This is to ensure that people are able to continue the map operation if something should ever happen that I am not able to keep up the map as well as ensure all of the images belong to the group itself are in one place.

Thank you.

[Walmington on Sea]

Strong work from Chrin, as ever. For now I'll just keep sponging off BG's much more half-hearted attempt to do the same for proto-AMW, and upload a snap of how I imagined the Canadian portion of mini-WoS...I hate Photobucket.

Regions 2, 9, and 10. Fairly straight-forward, I thought?

Of course, Mod could claim Ontario in part or whole, if it's felt that the borders appear, 'wrong', and if he wants to make America the nation that rivals Soviet India!

I'm hopeful that -by making them politically equivalent to all Scotland, and integral to the identity of a core character- I will actually get some use out of the Shetlands, Orkney, and Faroes, where as they tend to be insignificant in a larger British-isles claim, unless Chrin had something unexpected up his sleeve, of course!

[Chrinthanium]

Strong work from Chrin, as ever. For now I'll just keep sponging off BG's much more half-hearted attempt to do the same for proto-AMW, and upload a snap of how I imagined the Canadian portion of mini-WoS...I hate Photobucket.

(Image)

Regions 2, 9, and 10. Fairly straight-forward, I thought?

Of course, Mod could claim Ontario in part or whole, if it's felt that the borders appear, 'wrong', and if he wants to make America the nation that rivals Soviet India!

I'm hopeful that -by making them politically equivalent to all Scotland, and integral to the identity of a core character- I will actually get some use out of the Shetlands, Orkney, and Faroes, where as they tend to be insignificant in a larger British-isles claim, unless Chrin had something unexpected up his sleeve, of course!

Well, keeping things updated is easy enough. Now with the new Imgur for AMW itself, should be fine to keep group-owned images in one area for easier location. Always willing to help.

Easy for me to mark on the map, sir. And I like the way it looks. Furthermore, I only wear short sleeves, so hard to hide anything up them. Just never had you in this proximity to me before, so I am uncertain of how the history between us may have played out. Also, isn't that where the oil is?

[Walmington on Sea]

Oil! What oil? I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about!


((Quick, Sir Henry! They're on to us! Increase the flow and send the tankers!))

[Chrinthanium]

Oil! What oil? I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about!


((Quick, Sir Henry! They're on to us! Increase the flow and send the tankers!))

Considering a certain generously-resourced island/continent, I won't worry. Tell Sir Henry not to move at breakneck speed!

[Chrinthanium]

I was contemplating doing a National Maintenance thread for Chrinthania. This thread is kind of a catch-all for one-off ideas that aren't good for RPs or don't warrant a news story. I was discussing this in the IRC and I think Amerique was of the idea that I mean one thread for the whole of AMW. Now, at first I didn't think much on it, but, what say you, AMW? A single thread to catch these one-offs that don't necessitate an entire RP or a news post? Something where people can write and not feel they have to have a complete beginning-middle-end RP already on hand.

I like the idea and think we should do it.

[Europe - Prussia]

(...)

10) Further Baltic/Kattegat territory? I've briefly considered the possibility that the Amberlanders may have failed in their colonial endeavours without any control over sea lanes leading to, through, and from the Baltic. I think everything's currently either Gandvian or Valendian. Was that always so? How do we go about making this work, historically and presently?

(...)

Sorry for not answering sooner WoS.

This issue has two possible solutions: the first option is to reach an agreement and hash out some history. As I've said countless of times before, in the past Valendia worked more like a more competent and centralised HRE, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the Hanseatic League came to exist at some point and controlled the Kattegat during the Age of Discovery, thus allowing the Amberlanders to travel to the new world, for a fee of course.

The other option is more permanent one: that I give up Denmark partially (specifically the regions of Zealand and the Capital Region of Denmark) or totally, and you claim it to secure the passage from the Baltic to the Atlantic. At Amerique's suggestion I would claim Austria to go, as he said, "full HRE". I'm kinda torn on this option of course, and reluctant too, but it has its own merits too.

[Chrinthanium]

I'm actually going to stop something before I start it. I really, honestly, have given this a lot of thought and before I write up histories and do up maps and whatnot, I think I really just want to drop the idea of a claim centered on the UK that has an empire. Really, I know this may come as a shock, but I don't want that upon further review. It isn't that I couldn't make it work, I just don't want to do it. I would rather go with what I was thinking earlier and pop into a chunk/portion of Beddgelert's former claim for the CSR. There's a lot I can do with a created people that renders it what I want and that's what I am doing.

More to come.

EDIT: Austria and Liechtenstein would not be a part of this idea. I'm still torn between centering over Istanbul or simply completely in SE Europe.

EDIT 2:

So, I think I'm just going to go big here.....

Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, and Turkey with the exception of those provinces which are part of Gallaga. That would give me a border with Italy, Gull Flag Republic, Depkazia, Romnika, and potentially Valendia if he takes Austria. That portion of Ukraine that was part of GFR can go back to GFR and the Bratislava area can go to GFR. This would give Chrinthania 156,523,243 at best estimate of population. I think I can go with a 20,000 GDP per capita which gives a total GDP of 3.13 Trillion. Historically, it will never have an overseas empire because it was enough trouble keeping everything in hold where they were at. I'm thinking historically there were several kingdoms and democracies of various sorts occupying the area that, over time, coalesced into the modern Chrinthani state either through peace or war. We'll keep the very progressive society in the modern age either as a direct result of specific action to secularize a once-Christian nation or as a result of influence from various cultural infusions through the profitable trade routes upon which the Chrinthani sit. That's where I am at.

Though, not sure what to do with Eastern Roman history outside of keeping it for posterity's sake.

[Chrinthanium]

Right, been an interesting time since my last post with a few discussions that probably should find their way here....

1: I just didn't like, in the end, being in the UK as a claim in AMW. Seemed like a good idea at first, the more I worked it out and thought about it, the more I didn't like the terrain, the climate, and where the Chrinthani, themselves, were heading.

2: Most of my ideas for what the Chrinthani are came from originally placing them in SE Europe (with some/all/part of Turkey) and having them cross Southward into the Byzantine Empire eventually ending it and the advance of the Ottoman Turks (eventually). They are not Slavs, nor are they Greeks or Turks... they are Chrinthani.. whatever that means eventually For the sake of future AMWers and because I like them, these folks will still be part of the claim, they just will not be the majority.

3: I decided against a globe-spanning republic/empire. Much easier to control a state that is united by directly-linked territory.

4: Originally I wasn't going to center on Constantinople, but that works very well for the way I see the Chrinthani capital city.. ancient, powerful, and ever-changing. Its name will become something else... maybe.

5: I wanted to halt at the Turkish Rumnika/CSR border, then Chemaki dropped Turkey and I saw a way to sort of hold back the Turks for the Europeans... somewhat.

6: Language has yet to be determined, but these Chrinthani migrate southward from roughly proto-Shieldian territories, so who knows what they will wind up speaking. Maybe Esperanto?

7: There was no war with Tsalland. Tsalland and CSR would be erased from history as if never having existed. I just have to make sure there's no hidden surprises in the mountainous regions left over from the Celts.

8: No, this isn't going to be a major world power. Regional power, possibly, at best. Enough to keep Chingiz from invading and the Shield from spreading buckwheat beyond the border.

9: I can entertain discussion of dropping GDP per capita, but I do not want it so poor it cannot function. 156 million x 20,000 per capita = 3.13 Tn.. that's where I am at now.

EDIT:

I think I may go with a more reduced claim.... dropping most of Turkey after all. Taking all SE Europe plus the following locations in Turkey: Kirklareli province, Edirne province, Tekirdag province, Istanbul province (both sides of the Bosporus), and the Gokceada, Eceabat, and Gelibolu districts of Canakkale province... giving Chrinthania an estimated population of 94,107,570 with a GDP per cap of 20,000 for a total GDP of 1.882 Trillion.

[Chrinthanium]

Right'o... the final proposal:

Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Part of Turkey (Kirklareli province, Edirne province, Tekirdag province, Istanbul province (both sides of the Bosporus), and the Gokceada, Eceabat, and Gelibolu districts of Canakkale province). Total population: 94,107,570. GDP per cap: 20,000 for a total GDP of $1,882,151,400,000 ($1.882 Trillion USD).

History in very/extreme brief: Chrinthani culture begins along the Danube and is, shortly after their agrarian ways become part of who they are, shortly subsumed by the Roman Empire and, subsequently, the Byzantine Empire. In the mid-late 3rd Century CE the Celts wander through on their way to India. By 6th century CE, the Chrinthani begin breaking away from the Eastern/Byzantine Empire. By the 10th century, they've push the Byzantines southwestward towards the Bosporus. By the 14th Century CE the Byzantines are finally overthrown by the Chrinthani who settle SE Europe carving it up into several regional territories. By the 18th century a singular Chrinthani nation is forming and the former regional nations are roughly equivalent to the administrative divisions of the modern state. These regions are not cultural, but geographical. I would talk Great War, but we don't have one right now.

[The Crooked Beat]

Some belated comments on the slate of changes under discussion.

First of all, I would like to heartily (if redundantly) endorse The United Gulf States proposal. It struck me as a very interesting idea, full of rich possibilities, the first time around, and it was disappointing to see it go. Glad indeed that you have decided to give it another try, and please let me know if there is any useful and productive role for Gandvik in the stories and directions that you have in mind. Derek Igomo, I daresay, is part of AMW's basic fabric.

Regarding the possible recreation of Soviet India, while Europe would definitely be losing a lot if Geletia disappeared, the prospect of an assertive, aggressive, globally-active communist great power holds a lot of appeal too, and a state with the ability to push its particular brand of ideology on an international level seems like it could be an effective generator of RPs. I'm a little concerned about the possibility of a hard-line communist India becoming isolated, somewhat too remote from its presumptive ideological adversaries and perhaps too easy to simply quarantine, though as always there are RP-driven solutions to (almost) all structural/strategic difficulties, and if BG feels confident in this maneuver, I would say, by all means, go for it.

A downsized Walmington, well, I for one have no problems with a Britain-Walmington as has existed previously, though at the same time I certainly like the look of this new version, and it seems like it could have a major role to play. It would seem, in a way, that Walmington is shaping up to be almost a Baltic Singapore, a small but exceptionally (by local standards, at least) wealthy and advanced nation, and one whose perhaps necessarily outward, adventurous, opportunistic orientation doubtless sets it up to play an outsize role in world affairs. I tend to agree that, for Walmington to engage seriously in imperialism, especially in earlier times and also at present, some kind of stepping-stone from the Baltic to the Atlantic arena is very much called-for, and without wishing too flagrantly to give away Valendian territory, the outer Danish Archipelago, Zealand, Lolland, and Falster specifically, seem to fit the bill perfectly, and if compensation in Austria is acceptable to all parties (sounds a bit like we were at the Congress of Vienna!), I can certainly support that decision.

Alternatively, I would be prepared to part with much of southern Sweden if that seems like a better solution, the South Sweden, Smaland-Kalmar-Gotland, and West Sweden statistical areas. If nothing else, it would simplify the choice of Gandvian trucks! . A larger Walmingtonian presence in RL Sweden is of course negotiable. Mostly it depends on what you feel like.

Chrinthania in the Balkans, I should have something better to say about this. At any rate, I'm in favor, if it is the community consensus!

Now here's a subject I can wrap my mind around!

Real-life Britain, of course, blesses us with an immensely wide and perhaps singularly well-documented array of abandoned projects and what-ifs, so it should actually be entirely possible to cover almost Walmington's entire range of weaponry needs without necessarily making recourse to real-life British equipment. Much of this, naturally, has already been identified and discussed, and to the items already mentioned I would make a few additions.

The CA-31 is definitely a neat little airplane, and for a nation like Walmington, which probably needs low operating costs, fast scramble and turnaround times, and the ability to make use of dispersed bases, it seems like an excellent choice. It strikes me that the supersonic aspect isn't necessarily a huge obstacle to its effective use as an advanced trainer, since the USAF did basically the same thing with the T-38 Talon, and apparently it had one of the best safety records in the Air Force (I may be wrong about this). The picture that I have shows something that could be construed as a leading-edge root extension, too, so maybe it wouldn't be too much of a handful. Or maybe the Folland Gnat Mk.5, for a neat dovetailing with the Shieldian aeronautical industry?

For something a bit more sophisticated, if by no means outside this new Walmington's military-industrial range, the BAC P.45 might be worth a look. It was a variable-geometry precursor to the Jaguar, and according to Project Cancelled, it might have been a better aircraft, or at least much more credible as a response to the initial Jaguar specification for a combined trainer-attacker. I can't find exactly where it says the P.45 was supersonic, but as a VG aircraft I'm sure it must have been, and Project Cancelled provides a handy table of statistics, which I'd be happy to reproduce. Maybe not all that is needed, fighter-wise, but definitely quite practical as an advanced trainer/all-purpose ground attacker, and STOL-capable by virtue of its VG wing. And now that Walmington is more Sweden-sized, maybe it would be appropriate to wheel out the BAe P.106 again, Britain's Gripen?

Regarding warships, there are some interesting never-built projects outlined in some detail on the shipbucket forums, which might be very appropriate for a nation like Walmington in need of something relatively cheap yet still reasonably capable. I'd recommend a look at the Vickers Vedette, which seems like it could be very much at home in the Baltic and the North Sea. Very possibly a strong export prospect as well, and I'd already put Parsistan down as operating a few when Walmington still occupied the British isles. Some interesting stuff also related to the South African Corvette Program. The Castle-class OPV was also very briefly looked at, it appears, as a more heavily armed cut-rate frigate, though in RL the cost projections quickly escalated to a point not all that far from a full-size frigate.

On the higher end of the capability spectrum, Rebuilding the Royal Navy details a bunch of designs that could work as a British-style frigate without being any particular RL warship exactly, and if you'd like I would be happy to run through the details of some destroyer and frigate designs ranging from 4,500t general-warfare ships to 1,200t specialist antisubmarine ships. The Australian Light Destroyer Project, which you've already mentioned, also seems like it could be a very decent choice for Walmington. As yet another option there is the pre-Iroquois Canadian General Purpose Frigate, detailed specifications and plans for which are to be found at the end of this quite long PDF.

For purposes of power projection, the pre-Invincible command cruiser designs seem like a sound starting point. Rebuilding the Royal Navy outlines a 'Study 21,' for instance, of 12,750t deep displacement, room for six Sea Kings, a Sea Dart launcher forward, and radar, communications, and command facilities suitable for the flagship role. There are also some through-deck designs marginally smaller than the Invincibles, to keep open the option of VTOL operations. Vosper Thornycroft worked out a design as well for a very small through-deck VTOL carrier, I think in the region of 8,000t or less, though the authors of Rebuilding the Royal Navy dismiss it as a kind of cheap marketing trick, since in their view it would be far too small for safe and practical Harrier operations. The skyhook ships, I think, might fall under the same heading of 'interesting, yes, but practical?'

[Chrinthanium]

Well, there is one change to Chrinthania that is being made official. The de jure capital is Adrianople (RL Edirne) while the de facto capital is Constantinople. Congress, the Supreme Court, and some government agencies will be based in Adrianople, the president and certain government agencies will be based in Constantinople. Constantinople is, obviously, as Amerique put it, the prestige city.

I'm also creating a foreign affairs rough sketch for Chrinthania. I assume the liberal democracies like California and the American Republic will have strong diplomatic relations with Chrinthania as well as Walmington. Valendia and Italy probably have good relations with us as they are, mostly, nations that aren't anathema to the Chrinthani way of life. By virtue of proximity, we probably maintain above average relations with the Gull Flag Republic, though, as Ian has described it in his time in IRC, we probably aren't as happy with them as one would think. Gandvik is probably a neutral relation with us (which is probably a step up from where they should be based on IRC convo with TCB). Depkazia, Rumyak, Parsistan, and Soviet India probably also fall within a neutral category. Drapol and TUGS probably are on the poor relations list for obvious reasons. McMulland (if he/she sticks around) is probably above average. E-P's South American claim is probably also on neutral relations with Chrinthania until I know how it works better

Under these assumptions, citizens of America, California, Italy, Valendia, and Walmington can probably enter Chrinthania with only a valid passport and financial declarations stating they can properly take care of themselves while in Chrinthania. GFR citizens probably can get some type of fast-track visa after a Q&A session at a Chrinthani Embassy. Everyone else can enter with a valid visa obtained through the Chrinthani Department of Foreign Affairs or a local Chrinthani Embassy or Consulate except Drapol and TUGS due to travel restrictions between Chrinthania and those nations. Soviet Indians probably have to follow a similar path as the GFR. Soviet India probably ranks as high as America, California, Italy, Valendia, and Walmington when it comes to work visas for persons under the age of 25. The work visa program is not available for persons over 25.

I know, boring minutiae but it is something I find rather important in international relations.

[Beddgelert]

Right'o! Time to work out exactly what I'm doing with new-old BG, which entails deciphering the nature of foreign involvement in South Asian history.

Here is a rough working over-view of my history, presented in hopes of getting a few key details pinned down before I try to flesh out the nation's current character.

First, I'm assuming an ancient history loosely based on reality in Sri Lanka and the parts of India I've claimed, influenced only by the presumable lack of certain invasions and migrations in our rather more sparsely peopled global map.

The great change, of course, begins with the arrival of the Geletians.

Their history again begins with a basis in reality, and the Gaulish invasion of the Balkans in 279BCE. Three tribes break-away to cross the Hellespont in 278 and settle Galatia, though details on this portion of their history must now be in limbo until such time as Anatolia is claimed. A pencilled-in departure date for a second break-away lies somewhere between the early/mid 1st century BCE and mid/late 1st century CE, as the Geletians emerge in opposition to a wider Galatian settlement with Rome or another local AMW-relevant power and then later refuse Christianisation and march east. Possibly in the mid 3rd to early 4th century CE they fight for some Parsistani power or faction in return for passage through their lands as well as possibly some temporary territory and share of spoils.

Again, details may change as more claims emerge, but at present it looks as though the Geletians will arrive on the fringes of South Asia between 300 and 500 CE, presumably taking at least another couple of generations to move further east in strength. In some form, there will have been a historic Gupta Empire, whether expansive as IRL or limited to Bihar and surrounds, and I'm supposing that the Geletians were in some form of contact -and likely conflict- with it when a perhaps Depkazi-related people in the manner of the White Huns apply pressure to the region and most of the Celts turn south.

Between perhaps 600-900 CE the Geletian tribes vie with various Tamil dynasties in South India and disrupt the rise of the Chola by virtue of their excellent party-crashing timing. The wandering Celts arrive in Sri Lanka about one thousand years ago, and spend a century establishing themselves as a significant power there.

Thus, by the time any Vasco de Gama equivalent arrives, the Geletian kingdoms in Sri Lanka would have been a part of the local political geography for over three centuries.

Sri Lanka was divided chiefly between a Geletian confederation and a Sinhala kingdom, with Tamil (and other) minorities including minor states and territories affiliated to more powerful mainland Tamil dynasties.

South India -Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Telangana- was dominated by said Tamil dynasties, with other Dravidian clans and statelets in tributary relationships with them or elements of another broad Geletian tribal alliance in the region.

To the north-east, the Nawabs of Bengal held significant sway though did not always rule exclusively in the face of Oriya and Bihari rivals, while Geletian minorities were locally significant in some few parts, often forced to provide mercenary services to greater Indo-Aryan powers in order to maintain autonomy within their fortified towns and homesteads.

Chhattisgarh was the approximate location of the 'new Geletia', where thirty-six Geletian clans had established a kingdom to rival the Nawabs, viewing Jharkhand as something of a frontier (largely under Bengali sway and home to very few Celts) and constantly warring with one another over an Odisha populated by a significant Oriya majority and middling Geletian minority.

Valendia and Walmington seem likely to be amongst the first in the post-antiquity wave of European explorers and traders to have come to South Asia and turned invaders.

The Valendians extracted concession ports from local kingdoms in the south of the mainland while the Walmingtonians initially targeted Sri Lanka in a similar fashion, only to gradually expand, impressing warlike Geletians with victories in initial clashes against various local parties -perhaps including the Geletians-, willingness to respect a Celtic culture they can dimly recognise -all be it through a romantic lens-, and ability to pay handsomely for mercenary services. This mercenary relationship soon gave way to offering commissions and salaries, and raising 'Gaulish' regiments while conferring honours and riches on increasingly enfeebled and compliant tribal leaders.

Subjugating the island meant over-running areas affiliated to mainland Tamil kingdoms, and dragged the Walmingtonians into political and military entanglements in the sub-continent proper. Much of South India came under some degree of Walmingtonian influence through fortified concessions, shifting alliances, tributaries, punitive expeditions, and free hands offered to local Geletian clans willing to do the empire's dirty work for a share of the spoils (and with the help of the rifles).

The Walmingtonians will also have sought at the very least to control Port Blair in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, as part of their interest in Dra-pol, and tried to replicate their strategy down south in dealings with the Nawabs, all be it with probably less success.

This leaves room for more foreign colonial involvement in the northern half of what becomes Soviet India. I believe that Cass may have something up his sleeve, though I'm not sure, and there's still space for more.

Independence and unification, I think, came in stages.

Direct British rule in Ceylon, the rule of Tamil and Geletian rulers under Walmingtonian suzerainty in South India, British and other port concessions (excepting for those still extant), and whatever other colonial regimes -yet to be formalised- existed in middle and upper Indo-Geletia, were all to be brought down at slightly different times and by slightly different actors.

There'd have been general uprisings, mutinies, and various other independence campaigns throughout the whole region for generations, of course.

Nothing's settled as yet, but I'm thinking of having Chhattisgarh self-declare independence as a new Celtic Triarchy, either after over-running colonial forces or coming to some agreement pertaining to Bengali or other adjacent territories with said forces. I'm unsure as to when this would happen, and it may depend significantly on what other powers get involved in my history.

Bengal itself -whether colonial territory, independent under the Nawab, or some sort of client of the former managed by the latter- probably fell to a Communist insurrection -maybe beginning in, oh, say Naxalbari or some such place- relatively early in the history of independence. Weight of numbers when the movement spread through the population was likely a factor here, and it may have had links to early revolutionary activity in Dra-pol. This could happen anywhere from the mid 1800s to mid 1900s (though likely not later than the early 1900s).

Bihar initially escaped the full force of the revolution in Bengal and an independent Sultanate managed to attain some limited degree of recognition as a bulwark against the Communists.

South India, I think, fell when one of the royal houses courted by the British -that of Celert- got to be too big to handle, perhaps while Walmington was distracted with whatever replaces the Great War (as I'm sure something eventually must!), and set-up the hated Principality with a minority-rule semi-feudal authority lead by a handful of Christianised Celts (possibly including one or two Irish or other Brit-Celt defectors, though Christian sectarianism may derail that). This was probably a pariah state from the get-go, and possibly collaborated with the Gulfers as its only natural allies. This is likely to happen in the 1940s or there about.

Ceylon may have been placed under a sympathetic government under British protection in an effort to head-off a similar result there. Celts and Sinhalese likely received some degree of autonomy under a unity government, while Tamils were neglected, leading to the rise of the left-wing Liberation Tigers. This will probably happen in the second half of the C20th.

Inter-communal tension and incomplete separation from the colonial powers eventually put paid to the situations in Ceylon and Chhattisgarh (and possibly parts of Odisha and Jharkhand) as Igovian revolution spread from the Principality to its neighbours to the south and north, (possibly dragging Princely authority across borders, before defeating it). Meanwhile the Drapoel-influenced revolution in Bengal suffered declining popularity in the face of corruption, faltering development schemes, and a poorly conducted military campaign against the Bihari sultanate undertaken before domestic problems had been resolved or foreign enemies entirely repulsed, leaving the door open to Igovian influence.

I think that at its height under Llewellyn, the Principality may have ruled South India, pushed some way into Chhattisgarh, possibly established a satellite in part of Odisha, intervened in Ceylon and in doing so even clashed with the British, before being forced from the mainland by the Igovians and eventually over-run entirely.

This post is likely riddled with mistakes, omissions, oversights, and changes to come, but it's about time I tried to sort something!

[Chrinthanium]

I can't speak for others, but I like where Beeg's history is going. I am excited to see Soviet India coming into being. He's told me a lot about it over the years I've been in AMW and I am excited to see how it helps us to improve our output in AMW. I'm certain that it's been a pain for him to uproot his entire claim and shift it in the hopes of helping us to become more active and I cannot but help continue to express my support for this.

The fact is, Beddgelert has known what his claim is and how it works since before AMW was a thing. Even when it sat in SE Europe all that time, there was a basic, underlying idea of what Beddgelert was and how it saw the world. In fact, the founding members of AMW came here with ideas of what they wanted and, roughly, how they wanted it to work. It is why a group like AMW exists. I, for one, did not come to AMW with that kind of clarity.

Years ago when I stumbled upon AMW I was looking to RP. I was bored in NS and wanted to find some people who were interested in creating something. AMW managed to somehow appear on my radar. IIRC, there was some RP that Sax was hosting I barged in on and was told, quite politely, it was closed to non members and to apply. Since then, I've been scrambling to figure out what it is I should do with what pre-AMW Chrinthanium and how to fit AMW to what I saw Chrinthanium being. Of course, you can't fit AMW to anything, you have to fit yourself to the way the group operates.

I've also spoken on this ad nauseum, so forgive one more.

As you're all aware, I've jumped around the map more times than a hipster globetrotter trying to find the absolute coolest place before it becomes popular. Some of this is the idea of greener grass in other pastures. A lot of this has to do with various ideas and incarnations of the underlying idea I had. I am becoming more certain that the claim jumping comes more from trying to fit something into the idea of Chrinthanium than fitting Chrinthanium into already existing geography and, at times, history. It has caused a lot of problems doing it this way. In fact, as a few members can attest, I was (once again) bemoaning the fact that I was wanting to give the original idea of Chrinthanium life (once more) in AMW and how best and where best to do this.

Unlike founding members of AMW, there were no clear, concise ideas of what Chrinthanium was before it was in AMW, only ambiguous statements of what it should be. It came from a landmass of no real description with a group of people who were fairly tech savvy modern consumerists living in a liberal monarchy (of sorts). Oh, and it had a young emperor who was attractive, but had little else going for him. Now, it should have a lot of beaches, fairly warm weather (though there can be snowy/cold bits in winter), lots of islands, a fairly large claim, a long-standing monarchical line, a competent (though not overpowered) military, a good population, big cities, and some natural resources. The Chrinthani speak English (though, that's not a hard and fast rule), should be native to their claim, and European. There's so many places it could (potentially) work but there's almost no place on Earth where it would be 100% of everything. I believe, to some crazy extent, that's where the jumping comes about. Trying different things to get what I needed/wanted and failing miserably.

So last night I found myself once more going on about justifying Chrinthanium in an AMW context and how best to move forward. Thanks to everyone for not screaming at me last night.

I went to bed wondering what to do and woke up this morning with the same questions on my mind. And I rode the bus to work with the same question on my mind, only this time it had a nice soundtrack by Mendelssohn. And even between calls here at work, I was trying to piece things together in my head. And I realize there is an either/or solution.

Either: I remain in Europe, perhaps shifting back to SW Europe or retaining SE Europe, go for the long-history monarchy, retain a strictly European people in a European setting, losing the big cities in favor of one or two big city places with several larger cities and a much smaller landmass though population would be fairly good.

Or: I leave Europe in favor of where, according to Amerique, Chrinthanium has its greatest triumphs down under with some other additions. It would lose the long-lived monarchy, but gain the vast size of the Australian landmass plus other smaller area, the population could be expanded to include other nearby islands, and it has several big cities. Not to mention some natural resources.

To be frank and honest, I think that moving Chrinthanium to Europe is a mistake. While I'd love to recount a monarchy and an empire stretching back into the middle ages (or earlier) on a European continent where all the history seems to have been made (according to Europeans). I would be willing to trade all that to go back to Australia as a claim along with the following: Timor Leste (East Timor), Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Papua New Guinea, and the following parts of Indonesia: Lesser Sundra Islands, New Guinea, Maluku Province. Preliminary population total would be around 52,139,727... though this number doesn't include a Tasmanian-less Australia, so it's probably a few hundred thousand off (sometimes work is busy enough that adding for this stuff is a rough estimate).

With Cass coming into part of England, and a Walmingtonian Empire roughly, it's probably not difficult to have had someone with the last name Thornton scurry into the Australian continent and found a dynasty.

Europe is changing and I'm not certain that my idea work as well in Europe because we're more peaceful than Europe wants us to be.

[Chrinthanium]

I have finalized the locations:

From Indonesia: West Papua and Papua provinces; Papua New Guinea; Solomon Islands; Vanuatu; New Caledonia; New Zealand; Australia without Tasmania, and retaining Norfolk Is, Lord Howe Is, Heard and MacDonald Islands, Cocos Islands, Christmas Island, Ashmore and Cartier Islands. That gives a total population of 39,295,325. If this were a real life nation, it would rank as the 36th most populous ranking just above Poland and just below Uganda per Wikipedia or, if using The CIA World Factbook, it would rank as the 35th most populous nation again right above Poland but just below Algeria. The claim has a total area of 8.92 million square kilometers (3.445 million square miles). If this were a real life nation, per The CIA World Factbook it would rank as the 5th largest nation by square area just above Brazil and just below China. Here's a provincial map if anyone cares to see it. Most of the political names are taken from pre-AMW Chrinthanium's rough idea. Some were taken from when I was down there a few years ago. Some are just made up English sounding place names, some are from real life.

Darionopolis is the capital, which I positioned on RL Canberra. It is named for the Darion River, which flows through it. The largest city is Venetia Beach, which is positioned on RL Sydney. Melbourne will be called Trenton, Brisbane will be called Kira, Gold Coast will be called Surfers Cove, Darwin will remain Darwin, Perth will be called Preston, and Adelaide will take on the name Buckston. When/if I can find the full list of Chrinthani place names, the rest will fall into place as needed. Not that anyone needed this information, but there it is anyway.

I spent some time working up GDP figures for constituent parts of Chrinthania. Grouping Papua New Guinea, Papua, and West Papua into a group with a GDP per capita of 7,000; Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, and New Caledonia in a group with a GDP per capita of 9,000; New Zealand with a GDP per capita of 37,000; and Australia with a GDP per capita of $58,000. This brings total GDP per capita to 39,660.89 with a total GDP of 1.558 Trillion.