A Fox and Pony Show (IC, Open, ATTN CoPS and RoUS)

by **Frenequesta** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:17 am

Vishton Smalls, exhausted from the "trip" to New Amerik, slumped into his chair and changed the channel on the plasma screen in front of him. But at the same time, he was more pepped than before, feeling he had just accomplished much more than the predecessor by gaining much insight into Amerikan culture and its technological achievements as well as their culture, not to mention the new deals brokered. I could definitely do that again, he thought, but he resolved to wait until morning.

That is, until he remembered his daily conference with Thomisia Dylan, the Head Bureaucrat of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Economy. Picking up the remote to the screen in front of him he switched from the popular anime Ima, Dobutsuen ni Iku to No. 001, the direct line to the Ministry Building, with the Head waiting patiently for him.

"Ah, good evening, Secretary Smalls, just in time. Today we'd just like to inform you that Ambassador Rutledge* has just set up his post in Lubyak and has several reports about Freneq relations with the members of the Ponyist States."

When Smalls heard this, he lit up, jumping from his chair and smiling to the white-haired, double-chined woman on the screen. After panting a little due to his weight, he cleared his throat. "Brilliant, Thomisia, what's the story?"

"He has correspondence from Sawyer and Karls** that might shed a little light on the reception Freneq diplomacy and trade has gone. All of them have reported increasing interest in Freneq culture and business thanks to the missions and have helped the citizens of those various nations gain passport advice and other services. Most importantly, they report that we might be interested in joining their larger alliance, the Coalition of Ponyist States."

Smalls looked confused for a moment. "Really? We're hardly a Pony nation, I mean, a few enclaves on Anphase Boulevard and Terrace Street here and there, but us?"

"Ever since we set up a post on Kofahl Island it's been quite a busy port for both Freneq businesses and immigration. From what I've heard we don't need to be majority Pony, just recognize their rights."

"We can do that easily," Smalls replied. As a nation with sentient androids as flight attendants and garbage collectors voting and enjoying the same rights as organics, it made little sense not to allow Ponies the same. "What else does this coalition entail?"

"Rutledge had reported that there is a free trade agreement between all and a defense pact of sorts, I can send you the details later."

"I'd sure like to see it," said Smalls, and with a bow-nod, he bid Thomisia farewell. As the screen powered off, he mulled the offer. He knew that Ponies were becoming quite a significant constituency in Frenequesta. A Pony just replaced Judge Rankin in the Second Original District, and d'Artis Air's latest corporate elections had filled in three of the nine seats on the Board of Directors with Ponies. A Pony-owned condiment company was just ranked as one of the fastest-growing businesses in Frenequesta, and appeals to the Elements of Harmony were quickly innundating advertising campaigns. Clearly Smalls, facing reelection next winter, needed to be on their good side. But at the same time, he had to please the protectionists and non-interventionists that crossed party lines. Certainly he couldn't get all of the states into the Minoa Free Trade Project, the only economic zone Frenequesta was aligned with, and the only one which anyone so far has ever agreed to. As far as alliances go-- he worried about the constitutionality of such a thing, with the Freneq charter only allowing military for self-defense, not intervention into other affairs. Some wanted to bend it, repeal it, amend it, etc...

He turned on the screen and dialed Thomisia.

"Thomisia, has any member of the Popular Legislature proposed the entry?"

"Well, one of the members of the Harmony Party has proposed one recently but as far as I can tell the Committee has been putting off a date for a hearing for weeks."

"Well why don't you call the chair and get him to schedule something for tomorrow-- tell him Smalls sent you." Though he was unsure of Casey Heilmann's position on such an alliance, he had good ties with him and it would be difficult to say no.

"Certainly, Secretary..."

He knew they would have time; they rarely talked about anything. Even that was problematic...

Thomisia not only successfully convinced the Foreign Affairs committee to hold a hearing the next day, but also informed all the major press outlets-- the Rialto companies, the AltarWire, UFBT, FSTN, and Poliphilos-- to pay particular attention to the developments that would ensue in Neue Bayreuth tomorrow. All of them had synced their morning news shows to cover the hearing, and had come early in the morning to crowd Room 061 of the Popular Legislature Building, bustling with reporters, setting up their cameras and microphones for a live event to capture what was billed to them as a history-changing event. At least, as long as the Popular Legislature was convinced...

Secretary Smalls was in a nearby dressing room, prepping his witnesses for the tough questions. "Now some of the committee members might be concerned with how the alliance can coincide with Fahrquar v. Feng. You're familiar with the case, aren't you?"

"I certainly am, Secretary Smalls," replied Judge Cedar Dance with the typical lilt to her voice. "First case I had to study in the Neue Bayreuth law--"

"They're waiting for you, Secretary," interrupted an aide.

He straightened his tie. "In a jiffy," he shouted. Back to the judge and his other two witnesses, d'Artis Air and Interstellar board of directors memberFerris and economist Helmut Cunningham, he said "Alright, this should be a very simple task to convince them to join the Coalition, just look natural, remember the answers I prepared, and don't say anything that might get warped into the opposition's soundbite bank."

"Nothing's ever simple, Secretary," said Helmut, looking over the notes. "I've been trying to convince the Freneq people to loosen their barriers even a little for the last eight years and they're still holding out."

"The Pride Party's got a lot of power, I've heard," said Ferris.

"They're very vocal, yes", nodded Helmut. "And you've got their types in the ranks of all the other parties, so it especially is advantageous to--"

"30 seconds, Secretary!"

"C'mon, let's go," said Smalls, and he led out the three to the left door of the room. Coming out of it, he surveyed the committee. All thirteen members were human or anthropomorphized-- he wish he could move for a "change of veniremen", so to speak, so he could get at least one Pony on it-- but this wasn't a court, not in the legal sense at least, and he certainly didn't oversee who assigned committees. Yet he sensed that the composition was behind the times-- there were 25 or so Ponies in the 1,301-member Popular Legislature-- surely at least one had expertise in foreign policy? But there were Pony spectators-- surely when they were solicited they'd line up on his side. They sat down at a bench not 2 meters away from the Committee bench, both nervous and calm.

The voice of the Chair, Casey Heilmann, spoke up, apparently undisturbed by the flashing lights and garbled talk, and repeated the standard opening. "All spectators quiet while the Committee is in session; the Foreign Affairs Committee is now in procedure. Our first business of the day is 8022-616, "A Proposal to Bring the Social Republic and Scientific Collectives of Frenequesta into the Coalition of Ponyist States". A couple of members already looked skeptical to even the title, with disapproving frowns on their faces and a slight hostility in their eyes.

Ferris looked worried, but Cedar Dance next to him tried to comfort him. "Don't you worry, they'll turn around," she whispered.

The Chair, not hearing this, addressed Secretary Smalls. "The sponsor will now introduce his proposal to the committee. Secretary Smalls?"

Briefly looking over his transcript, Smalls turned up to face the Chair. He opened his mouth to speak but the Chair interrupted him.

"I should ask you to keep your statements as brief as possible, after all the media's here," and the room erupted with laughter.

While Smalls had a sneaking suspicion that the real reason for the admonition was that the Committee wasn't really taking the proposal seriously anyway, he chuckled along, as did Cedar Dance, Ferris, and Cunningham. After the cacophony had subsided, he cleared his throat to speak. And he needed it.

"Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the pleasure of having me here today to advocate for the Entry of Frenequesta in to the Coalition of Ponyist States. As you are probably aware, the sentient species known as the 'Ponies' with a capital P are among the fastest growing minority group in Frenequesta today. Ever since the first Pony set shore to Frenequesta in 2215, we have had over 2.1 million make our great nation their home in a period of five short years. The Suprabureau of Immigration predicts that this number will rise to 9.6 million by 2250-- about 12% of our projected population in that year. There are many nations that these Ponies hail from, but the vast majority are from countries part of a group known as the Coalition of Ponyist States-- a multinational body dedicated to the presevance of the rights of Ponies everywhere and, in many cases, a tie reflecting the Pony influence in their nations. I, along with my witnesses here, propose that Frenequesta join that coalition. We are already well prepared for it. We've been welcoming of them for the last five years, affording them all the rights we've given all sentient species from across the multiverse. Many of them, though, still have strong ties to their home nations within the Coalition-- many of the places they work are Coalition-based businesses who are eager to bring their wares to Frenequesta if not for a few tariffs we put on them. We suggest that those workers will see an equal prosperity with the rest of us if the barriers are lowered as will be a condition of join, and in fact may boost native Freneq business as well. The intervention they may require may not be any more taxing than what we already do in our embassy filings. I am sure that our ties with the nations within the Coalition we already have embassies with will become stronger with this joining, and hope for a more harmonious relationship with the rest as well. Again, I urge your consideration in joining, and hope that you'll see the benefit in all of us. Unless you have any questions, that will conclude my introduction."

He had hoped for a firestorm of questioning after that short speech, but the others seemed too tired to say anything. He overheard one member of the committee whispering to another "Have you had coffee yet?" and another "...up all last night...". The chair was nodding to the other members, and finally he addressed Smalls.

"Thank you Secretary Smalls, we will adjourn for an hour recess and hear witness Judge Cedar Dance next." And the committee gavel fell, and the thirteen members swiftly descended to the doors behind them, either talking to other members, headed to the cafeteria, or back to their offices to fill in another constituent request.

Ferris wiped a drop of sweat from his brow. "I was worried there for a moment, the sight of them made me nervous."

"Once you've been through as many as I have, you'll get used to it," said Smalls.

"At least we have more time to prepare," said Cedar Dance. "I could use some look-overs of the questions."

"Certainly, here's the sheet," said Smalls, handing a twenty-page stack of papers to the four-hooved, spectacled judge.

"Secretary, we've got some correspondence," said the aide who had called them in, handing Smalls a stack of at least a hundred pages.

"Already?" asked Smalls. "I'm surprised we've got some already, we've only just gave the intro. Did Thomisia inform the ambassadors?"

"Yes, and a couple others, I think," replied the aide. "Oh, and here's a revised schedule of the course of the hearings."

"Excellent," Smalls returned. So while Cedar Dance, Ferris, and Helmut were reviewing their speeches, he looked over the letters and the schedule:

*Calhoun Rutledge, the Freneq Ambassador to Lubyak.
**Marcel Sawyer and Soren Karls are the Freneq Ambassadors to Hippostania and Lykosia respectively.

by **New Amerik** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:36 pm

Click...

Click...

Click...

The talons of Dao V'kar It'zil, of the House of Dao, lightly clacked against the black, oak handle of the kruzk's walking cane as he sat inside the government transportation car that would shuttle him to the Popular Legislation Building. He was late, by the reckoning of both the governmental advisory that had informed him earlier in the morning of where to go, and his own internal clock. But Dao V'kar had been late before, and had known many meetings where others had come late. It was better to be clear-minded and miss the introductions than to be muddled and sleep through the true proceedings. And, by his own internal clock, he would not be needed for some time. That he was coming this early at all was, it could be said, merely an acknowledgement that the words of others were important and valuable enough to listen to.

The elderly Amerikan rested back, nursing a night of light hashish with his chicklets with some black hazelnut coffee - though real coffee was available in the nation he was in, like most of his kin he had developed a taste for the imitation drink after years of cut-off access to beans forced his homeland to improvise. He sat inside the perfectly black Katamari Landshark that served as diplomatic transport, watching through the tinted glass as the hovercar quietly roared three feet above the ground in traffic, flags waving from the antennae. His eldest surviving chicklet, Dao Z'kan, took the wheel - the only thing Dao V'kar needed to focus on right now was the diplomatic task at hand. The car followed the traffic laws of the nation dutifully, moving slowly amongst the rush of the cars around it and ignoring the barely restrained growling of the traffic spirit bound inside the vehicle as it yearned to take to the skies in a blaze of speed. It kept level with the crowd, until finally the Landshark finally recieved permission, and a parking space, within six blocks of the Legislation Building.

And Dao V'kar exited alone. His chicklet merely gave a bow of respect for the Veiled One, his founder, and murmured his fondest regards and best wishes for the success of his mission. In return, Dao V'kar touched the flat of his mask between the ridges of his eyes in a return sign of respect and acknowledgement, before grasping his cane, and preparing to walk to the appointed area. He would travel alone - as a sign of respect for the fellow Realm ally, and as a sign of independence and strength for his own self.

He stalked to the doorway of the Building, to greet the processing security and officials no doubt ensuring that those who sent in were supposed to be sent in. At just under six feet at full height, dressed in the freshest standard Amerikan diplomatic uniform of black and grey, much of his body covered by a long cloak of black, purple edging, and flecks of gold, wearing a solid obsidian mask embroidered with gold line detailing, and wearing an elaborate fabric translucent facial veil over the mask, Dao V'kar cut an exotic - and definately Amerikan - figure. Clutching his black cane to steady his balance, he entered.

In response to the inevitable security details, he complied as best he could. A search for weapons brought forth only the cane, the rasping hiss of Dao V'kar acknowledging, "The brass end could be used to strike a figure down with, given proper wielding. It has, in past times." A search for illegal substances brought forth nothing - indeed, aside from the cane, a small amount of money, and a Japanese personal computational device for recording items and notes of interest, Dao V'kar had brought little with him. Upon confirmation of his identity, he nodded and passed by.

However, he did not enter the room straight away - having never actually been to this kind of meeting in the nation he was stationed in, he was not about to go accidentally breaking the solemn order of diplomatic events. Instead, he quietly waited outside, attempting to find a place to sit down until he could inquire about which location he should place himself in until the proper time came.

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:00 am

While Ferris, Helmut, and most of the spectators had gone elsewhere, Secretary Smalls and Cedar Dance remained in the Committee room rehearsing her lines. The "GPH-born rising star of Freneq jurisprudence", as a recent article in The Rialto Post called her, was not afraid of legislative committees, despite never actually having to testify in front of one. When she was marked as a candidate to fill the late Glenn Rankin's seat on the Second Original District of Coppland, she, like any other person considered for a federal judgeship in Frenequesta, had to defend herself against an independent bar association and law review panel grilling her on controversial questions of Freneq law (as well as a few non-controversial ones as well, of course). The answers she gave were at least satisfactory, or else she wouldn't have got the job-- but at the same time she believed that some on the panel were genuinely impressed. She believed the Committee hearing would be a much less stressful and easier task. While against the panel she had to express her understanding of a broad range of subjects such as regulatory law and division of power questions, this hearing to her would be much simpler-- a simple question on the legality of such an alliance. She knew that some were afraid that joining would bring Frenequesta into a number of unconstitutional military actions, at least more than the courts would tolerate in the long run, and it was her job to convince the Committee otherwise.

Within forty-five minutes, the spectators and press filed back into the room murmuring amongst themselves. At that time Smalls had left to go to the restroom and grab a HumpBar from a nearby vending machine, promising himself it would his only one today, lest he get fatter than he already was. After grabbing the energy bar from the machine he turned around and noticed Dao V'kar It'zil, the recently approved Amerikan ambassador to Frenequesta, wandering in the break room. Sensing a slight bit of confusion on him he walked up to him.

"Ambassador Dao V'kar It'zil? Secretary Vishton Smalls. I'm glad you made it; I hope the traffic on Carter Avenue didn't give you too much trouble," he said, referencing the road the Popular Legislature building was on.

by **New Amerik** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:37 pm

Dao V'kar It'zil turned at the introduction of Secretary Vishton Smalls, and then greeted the man in the customary matter. As a Veiled One and and an elder by technicality, he did not bow. However, he touched his right hand to the center of his mask, between the eyes, and spoke in response, "Greetings, Secretary Vishton Smalls of the Secretary House. The tidings are good - the traffic was relatively light, considering the two-dimensional axis it traveled along. I trust this meeting shall go well - we will do our best to look out for an allied nation."

He glanced around the break room, and at the door Smalls had presumably emerged from. "We hope that the Scientific Collectives and their people do not misinterpret our reasons for holding the stance we do on such a matter. Our reserves are not towards the Ponies...rather, merely this particular organization in question. But that, perhaps, is an answer best expressed on the stand, rather than in the dark."

"Now, where shall I house myself while awaiting my call to the stand?"

by **Frenequesta** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:18 am

Vishton was a little irked that the ambassador didn't bow, but then again, neither did he. Everything was equal. "It certainly would be strange of New Amerik to contradict a position they have fervently held since its founding were it simply about the Ponies. Anyhow, since you're coming up in an hour, you're welcome--nay, I advise you-- to take a seat on the main floor of the Foreign Affairs Committee Room, we've got a couple right behind the witness table in front of the boxes and balconies. After all, you're right after Judge Dance, and since she's really there to address a minor legality question, I don't expect the exchange to take the whole hour, so it'd be considerably more convenient."

The Amerikan ambassador nodded and quietly followed Vishton as he escorted him to the conference room. Coming in, they saw that the room had again filled with even more spectators and cameras bustling among themselves on the issue at hand. Smalls noted a security guard helped move a few Ponies to the "disablity" section of the theater in order to make room for more bipedals-- it was embarrassing that Frenequesta would be engaging in that kind of action, reminiscent of the segregation of yore. He nudged Judge Cedar Dance coming onto the main floor, and pointed to the guard. She looked back and quickly gave a disapproving frown and a shake of the head which Vishton shared. "That's going to be another suit right there," she said as one of the Ponies being moved appeared to protest.

But no camera picked that up, as Casey Heillmann had pressed the silent buzzer intended to make order in the room. Now all eyes were on the Committee, and soon, the judge.

"Spectators are ordered to remain silent as the Committee for Foreign Affairs has re-congregated. We will now continue the hearing on General Bill #8022-616, 'A Proposal to Bring the Social Republic and Scientific Collectives of Frenequesta into the Coalition of Ponyist States' with the Statement of the Honorable Judge Cedar Dance of the Second Original District of Coppland. Ms. Dance?"

"Good luck," Secretary Smalls whispered to her as she trotted to the front table of the floor before the Committee. Adjusting her glasses with her left hoof, she spoke up in a clear and assertive voice.

Thank you, Mr. Heillmann, and everypony—I mean everyone, pardon me—on the Foreign Affairs Committee for this grand opportunity to advocate as an amicus witness in favor of joining the Coalition of Ponyist States. Before I begin I’d like to thank Secretary Smalls for the valuable training he has given me, and some of my friends out in the audience—Judge Kumquat of the Direct General Appeals District and Flowing Goldmane, my study buddy at University of Neue Bayreuth Law School, for the Loyalty and Laughter they have given and shared with me on such a short and stressful notice.

Now you might be wondering why I call myself an amicus witness. Personally, I am for joining the Coalition, but I am not here, as the ones coming after me, to argue on economic, political or ethical grounds. My target here is purely legal. You see, I’ve heard that a couple of respectable lawyers and politicians are worried that joining the Coalition may not play well with the Freneq Constitution, especially since Chief Justice Cosmo’s decision in Fahrquar v. Feng. I will admit here that the military does have a considerably limited power under that case than do most other nations. I have thoroughly read the case, and I want to dispel some discord on this matter and say that I find no reason under that case, or in any letter of Freneq Law, that would prohibit an alliance on the grounds exposed in Feng.

Most fundamentally the defense pact in the Coalition’s bylaws is non-binding. It does not automatically show specific situations where a Coalition member must send troops to the aid of another Coalition member, and if anything it helps guide member states who need defensive help to a specific class of nations who are more likely to actually aid them because of their common Pony heritage. It is true that in the Coalition's defense summit they passed a measure calling for military aid for Coalition members, however there was no specific talk over the actual requirements, and it seems that all aid is solely dependent on our Kindness.

The voluntary nature of this arrangement is completely consistent with Freneq law. Fahrquar v. Feng only concerned itself with actual action-- as you know, it involved a question of a constitutionality and authorization of a Kipperian investigative mission which a troupe of the Freneq military took part. In Feng, Chief Justice Cosmo emphasized the substantial nature of the case, and in his analysis of the defense clauses, hinted that if treaties had such substantial components such as Gunderstorm's mission it may be void. However, I see none of that here, as the defense in question is purely abstract and hypothetical, and I hope that no one does either."

An homo sapiens lutra metaformi on the Committee leaned over to eye the bespectacled Pony, tapping a pen very lightly while enunciating in a voice quite a bit older than he looked, "Well Miss Dance the summit in question involved much more than the protocol for military aid, you know. They also decided to implement a Coalition-wide military force, unified command structures, and defensive installations. What about those?"

Cedar Dance knew that lawyers had concerns over those provisions, but only believed that the military aid requirement was the part anyone was really worried about. At least she had an answer for those too. "Yes, Mr. Berger, those would be acceptable as well. The records indicate that there was no attempt to require a quota for the number of forces any member must give up to the Coalition. The unified command structures only apply to those troops sent over on Coalition missions and does not actually affect the control of any nation's own military for its own missions, and the defensive installations can only be understood to require a mutual consent."

"The question is whether that mutual consent can stand up to Feng scrutiny," said Mr. Berger flatly.

"It does, sir," Cedar Dance replied. "I read Feng's definition of 'action' to mean more than just guarding a place, which is what those defensive installations do, at least at a minimum. Cosmo read the defense clauses in the context of engaging in specific missions."

"That we have a military presence elsewhere in the multiverse surely makes an impression on other nations, does it not? We're giving them some defense," said a black-haired woman.

"Of course some of us want to see Feng pared down a bit," said Casey to the black-haired woman. Cedar Dance gave a slight smile agreeing; she too felt that Chief Justice Cosmo was a bit too hasty in cutting the scope of military-based foreign relations Frenequesta could take. Of course the brevity of the opinion left many questions opened, some which the lone dissenter, the late David Torres, had highlighted. It was true that it was ambiguous from the opinion whether having troops standing around in a foreign country did constitute "action not related to the defense of the nation"-- and then she did some quick thinking, cutting above the informal mumble of the Committee.

"Well, we might be defending them, but it need not be the only aim of the defensive installations. Since we are doing business with so many Coalition members, one could argue that by putting up defenses we are protecting Freneq economic interests."

"The economic interests were never raised in the legislative history of the summit, were they? It was mostly aimed to attempt a stronger defense against anti-Ponyists, as far as I understand," asked the black-haired woman, a little skeptical.

"Not explicitly, Mrs. Song," asserted Cedar Dance. "But the interests of defense proceedings like these are selfish as well as altruistic."

"Wouldn't that be un-Generous, though?" asked a balding man clasping his twelve fingers in a common fist in a slightly sarcastic tone.

"No, Mr. Autry," she replied, though with a feeling of futility, sensing he was already irrevocably biased against the Coalition. "I meant 'selfish' in the economic sense, not necessarily the moral one."

"This Coalition seems like a a bit of a slap-shod job in these regards," said Vernon Slater, who occupied Kittgenstein's seat on the Committee. "But were there other meetings besides the defense summit?"

"The Security Council created in the defense summit did meet and there was a specific proposal discussed to flesh out the aid protocol-- and in fact it had a statement that the Coordination of Armed Engagement had no direct command over any nation's military."

"The Council never formally implemented this measure, though. Only two votes on the proposal were taken," said Mr. Berger, looking over a transcript of the Council proceedings.

Dance saw right through the game Mr. Berger wanted to play. "The Council has no specific quorum rules, and in any case neither of those votes were vetoes. Even if this vote is not enough to make the Security Council provisions binding, the status quo still stands."

"Do we know that the status quo is voluntary? There's no specific charter that I have found governing the Coalition," said Casey. "Their structure might as well be a big game of king of the hill."

"Such an arrangement would never be tolerated in the Coalition. In fact there have been statements in Coalition meetings that have profoundly protested against any one nation being established as ruler over all. Every action in the Coalition I have seen has fallen short on infringing on state sovereignty even at our low threshold," said Cedar Dance, tiring a little from the questions that almost belied ignorance.

Mr. Berger spoke up again. "Miss Dance, before you go I want to address a concern I have over the economic qualification. If that is so, is there any limit to any engagements we can do? National Defense, or any defense for that matter, is a classic public good; it is difficult to exclude non-payers from protection, we can't just ensure we are protecting Freneq trade. I mean, besides aggression or anything of that nature."

"Insofar as there is actual trade between the Coalition member and Frenequesta I see no problems," said Judge Cedar Dance.

"Well say you were in Secretary Feng's position at the time of Fahrquar v. Feng. Would you have defended the action there on Freneq economic presence in the Floor Kippers?"

"The action is best understood in concern of the TCAA, not the Floor Kippers. Frenequesta had no economic relations with the TCAA." Her hooves shaking, the questioning being more stressful than she anticipated, she wrapped up. "If there are no further questions, that will conclude my remarks."

"Thank you, Judge Cedar Dance, you are free to leave the stand," said Casey, shuffling through his Pad to the next witness. As Cedar Dance trotted away, she overheard a few remarks:

Never thought Feng was a special case...

Well, we could try...

The economic argument is more compelling than it looks, just wasn't too fleshed...

Secretary Smalls patted her on her shoulder. "Good job, you looked good up there."

"Thank you, Secretary," said Cedar Dance a little bashfully.

"Our next witness will be Ambassador Dao V'kar It'zil of New Amerik," stated Casey, finally finding his files. "Mr. Dao?"

by **New Amerik** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:03 pm

Dao V'kar It'zel nodded in response to his name, picking himself up off the seat from which he had been listening and watching the hearing and walking down to the floor before the Committee with help of his cane, slightly leaning on the table as he stood. He held a free hand up for a moment while he took a second to cough into the folds of a sanitary napkin procured out of the folds of his cloak, before hurridly throwing it away into another receptable inside his cloak. With that done, he began to speak in a mildly raspy, but surprisingly clear voice.

We bid much greetings to the ruling government of our hosting nation, associated members of the Committee for Foreign Affairs, and the citizens and officials who stand here today. In the interests of friendship, input, and honesty, we represent the united body and will of the people and government of the Holy Technocracy of New Amerik, and we will speak for all who cannot. And why we are here, at present, is to argue on an issue of ethical matters.

We would make the claim that the ideology of Ponyism itself lacks ethical strength to be the basis for which to join an alliance. It is a bold statement, and we would not expect a friendly reaction to the claim, but that is what we are arguing for. It has been noted, and we will further affirm the fact on our own basis, that the Coalition of Ponyist States lacks a visibly central charter holding it together. The one common connection that all the nations involved in it have, as denoted by the name and in its public notice, are that all of them have either governments or people or...both, that fall into the Ponyism ideology. And as we would argue that Ponyism itself lacks sufficient ethical value to be worth imposing on either the Frenequestan state or its people, we must equally point out why we would make such a claim.

It is understood that all ideologies have flaws when looked at through the lens of other's ethical glasses, and we would certainly understand and acknowledge the merits of Ponyism over other ideologies, should it have any. The upholding of such concepts as honesty, kindness, laughter, generosity, loyalty, and imagination...or magic, as it were is indeed noble, and the equality on behalf of equus ferus sapiens is something that, as a pro sapient-equality nation, we can understand and celebrate. But one does not need to be Ponyist to share such concepts or believe in equal rights for all sapient species, nor does one need to be Ponyist in order to make an active attempt to put such things into practice. We must conclude that it is not necessary to join such a coalition, or believe in such an ideology, to share their better points and outlook on life.

But there is more than merely a lack of superior ethics over present systems - there is unethical thought process in the ideology of Ponyism as well. We must note the speciesism intrinsically present in the Ponyism ideology, because it is unfortunate, but true. At heart, the Ponyism ideology is centered around upholding the rights and equality of states in which a significant proportion of the population is of the Pony species. It fully ignores the rights of other species, and is only concerned with the rights of Ponies - and that is not equality. A state or populace with a self-determined ideology - Ponyism, in this case - that only deals with issues and matters pertaining to a single species risks becoming a tyranny of the majority, of other species falling behind in rights simply because they are being placed, nationally speaking, behind the chosen one. And, though we would avoid falling into this particular logical fallacy if we could, it is as rediculous as the humanism ideology is today, focusing on the rights, needs, and issues of only the homo sapiens sapiens.

While more minor, to a point, there is also a related concern of the ideology in the religious segment of Ponyism. We are well aware of the differences between the religious and secular areas of the movement, but they are still linked together. The absolute celebration of the Sisters as gods, and the tenets known as the Elements of Harmony may not be openly proclaimed as truth by this government, but the ideology of Ponyism nonetheless holds them up as figures of respect, if not outright worship. This as well is not ethical - to a similar point, we are sure the Committe is aware of the...Holy Technocracy's religious situation. Yet our ideology, and friendship, is not contigent on worship or even respect for the Duo. Ponyism, however, is nearly defined as having respect for or worship of the Sisters...and, though it may merely be the diplomat in...me, talking, respect must be earned, not granted.

Though I hope we have not offended you in our explanations of why we would testify the way we do, and we will answer your questions to the best of our ability, we would also ask you this ourselves: If Frequenestra had never had a population of Ponies, would you still consider joining the Coalition of Ponyist States? Are we here today because your people as a whole, united in equality among sapients, wanted to join in this coalition...or because merely a still relatively new segment of your population, united not in sapience but in the species they were born into, wish it?

It took Dao V'kar several seconds to become quiet, for he was not used to speaking so long, and he had not yet had the modifications necessary to his lungs to do so easily. Nonetheless, he finished his talk and nodded, nearly hugging the desk as he waited for the presumable barrage of questions from the Committee.

As any senior diplomat who had extensive contact with the Amerikans would, he suspected he'd liably be laughed out of court or merely have his speech picked apart by the Committee - there was little solid information he could give, and the Holy Technocracy was maddeningly self-righteous in its beliefs on species and their own correctness. Nonetheless, he was fulfilling his duty as a representative of the nation's people and government, and damnation if he wasn't going to do his best to carry out that duty.

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:46 pm

Mr. Berger, who by now was obviously the most active questioner on the Committee, raised his voice to speak, but was instead beaten to the inquiry by his neighbor Joseph Kilkenny of Coppland. They said something exactly at the same time, but of course, Berger's microphone didn't register.

"Mr. Dao--"

"Excuse me, but-- oh sorry, Joe, go ahead."

"Mr. Dao, where do you get the impression that Ponyism concerns itself with the rights of Ponies as exclusive? I guess differing sects of Ponyism may have different views on the matter, but I've yet to know a significant number of Ponies who actually want rights for their species at the expense of others. If anything, I think that most modern understandings of the tying strand of Harmony would require that the interests of non-Ponies are necessary to maintain-- and I'm quoting 'The Catechism of the Ponyist Faith'-- a view that 'we are always better working together than apart'. Further, I see nothing in the talks of the various members that demand a sort of 'Ponyist Orthodoxy' on all the states within."

by **New Amerik** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:24 pm

Dao V'kar leaned forwards, and nodded to the Committee member who had asked the question. "We do believe that nowhere was it stated in our statement that the rights of Ponies are exclusive in the ideology of Ponyism. We recall, however, stating that Ponyism is concerned only in matters where the rights or equality of ponies are threatened. The two are, we believe...not the same."

He paused, and coughed, before clarifying further. "Ponyism, as an ideology, simply does not say anything on the rights of any species other than ponies. We have heard and seen Ponyist condemn and intervene in terrible nations that attempted to maltreat or even genocide their Pony population. But what of the other, numerous nations that do not happen to have pony populations, and yet suffer under genocide or maltreatment? It is not rights at the exclusion of others, but rather rights in ignorance of others...that is fine for a smaller group, perhaps, but not for a nation."

Dao V'kar paused once more, to avoid the strain of talking too much in so little a time period. "'The interests of non-ponies are necessary to maintain'? That, Committee Member Joe, is an interesting phrase - We would respond that, in those particular words, what is spoken of is not harmony but rather self-interest...but that is not a true response. What is our response, however, is that this particular catechism in question says nothing related to the counter-argument being presented. The 'we' being spoken of, in the terms of Ponyist Faith, would seem to refer to members of the ponyism ideology already, which we are arguing against as being improperly ethical in the first place. As for the 'Ponyist Orthodoxy...refer to our notation of the religious and secular sides of the ponyist ideology."

He almost went back, but then thought better of it, and said one last sentence. "And there is no need for Mr, Committee Member Joe. Dao is my title and my Housename."

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:49 pm

"I see. Likewise, call me Mr. Kilkenny in the future," Mr. Kilkenny replied. "But--"

Mr. Berger finally had his turn. "But doesn't that ignore the seemingly universal statement just a few lines before, that 'Harmony is the lifestyle that Ponyists believe best for all living things'? Further, I think what Mr. Kilkenny meant by 'Ponyist Orthodoxy' is that the Coalition doesn't really care that the nation recognizes the equality and rights of Ponies on the grounds of the Ponyist ideology. It could be your standard egalitarian grounds based on personal autonomy and ability to reason."

by **New Amerik** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:02 am

Dao V'Kar nodded politely to Mr. Kilkenny, before responding to the new question posed.

"Ponyism believes Harmony is the best lifestyle for all living beings, and yet the ideology is still referred to as Ponyism and itself created out of necessity to ponies - as it will say further in the Catechism. In other words, the concept of Harmony as related to Ponyism was formed because of the benefit to ponies - the benefit to other species was merely secondary. Furthermore, Harmony does not itself count equality as a virtue...generosity and kindness, perhaps, but it is possible to be kind and generous without being equal."

"Though we fear that such a comparison might border on logical fallacy, we must honestly doubt the truthfulness of yours and/or Mr. Kilkenny's in this situation. It is the Coalition of Ponyist states, explicity stating that it is an organization for those nations or governments who are of the Ponyist ideology. One who allows freedoms for ponies on seperate grounds would liably be thought of with some measure of respect, but unless they declare themselves as Ponyist then why would the group have reason to include them in?"

"It is this distinction we make for our case against Ponyism. It is possible to have egalitarianism, and adhere to these Elements of Harmony, and yet not be Ponyist. But the ideology of Ponyism puts in bias towards the species, thus taking out the issue of equality. Were you to join the Coalition of Egalitarian States, we would gladly welcome you...and join you, even, in membership. Yet it is not."

Dao V'kar stood up and stretched slightly taller, both to erase some of the kinks in his back and to make a point as he made a sweeping gesture with his arms. "Though Ponies are as of yet rare to non-existent as citizens in our nation, we have egalitarianism as much as we are able to - all are the same when it comes to sapience. In moderation and in excess when needed, we uphold the virtues of loyalty, truth, magic, generosity, kindess, laughter...among others. Yet why would we declare ourselves to be Ponyist, declaring ourselves to be upholding the beliefs of Ponies as the best course of action for all living things? Why must we submit to one particular species and decide that their way is the right way, when it is possible that such concepts as found in Harmony and equality are the result of, not one, but all sapient species working together? Egalitarianism, Communalism, Sapientism...call it what you will. But Ponyism is not that."

He bent lower, more comfortably once more, and sighed. Sounding like a death rattle of a dying man, it was...not a pleasant sound. "There are much worse things in the multiverse that need fighting for than whether a particular organization should be joined because its ideology is ethical or not. And we suspect that, in the end, the true factors in whether Freneqesta will join or not will hinge on factors larger than what we have spoken today. But what we can say is this: If you would join this...Coalition of Ponyist States...then do not join as Ponyists. Join because you believe in equality for all species, join because you believe the tenets of the Elements are worthy of being uplifted, but do not tie yourself into such an ideology for the sake of an alliance. We have experienced species-rights organizations, and when there is true injustice in a country, such things are necessary to right what is wrong. But when they grow, when leaders and members start to speak of everyone while only ever referring to themselves, then new wrongs emerge...and the cycle begins again."

by **Frenequesta** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:06 am

It was really a race to reach the buzzer this time-- Mr. Heillmann, Mr. Berger, Mr. Kilkenny, Mrs. Daughtcombe, and Mr. Slater all appeared to press at the same time, all with different questions, but Mr. Slater won out.

"I don't understand, you're not fine with us joining the organization because it is specieist in your view, but at the same time you have no qualms if we do not do so as Ponyists, and yet you imply that we'd either be rejected or treated as second-class members of the Coalition because we're not Ponyist, that just seems to be a little contradictary to your goal. If there is no point in joining because we might be rejected, why do you suggest we could still join and get in even with our own conceptions of rights and equality?"

by **New Amerik** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:04 pm

Dao V'kar responded, "Then you must understand, Committee Member, that there are other arguments besides ours for why you should and should not join. We would advise you not to join on the grounds we state, and yet if, based on other arguments, you would do so anyways, we would ask such a concession...and so you can verify for sure, once and for all, if our argument against the Coalition is steeped in merit or simply in belief."

"Nonetheless, that is all we ourselves can do - warn you of why you should not join, and attempt to sway you if you try to in the end based on ethical matters."

by **Frenequesta** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:41 pm

"Do any of these criticisms apply if Frenequesta were merely to seek observer status? So far we've only been discussing in terms of membership," said Mr. Heillmann, seeking to approach the problem from all options.

by **New Amerik** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:23 pm

"The criticisms against ponyism themself would still stand no matter the decision of the Frenequestan state, but if the state were to seek observer status instead of membership the Holy Technocracy would refrain from advising one position or another. 'Observer' status is merely a position of non-membership, but one that equally allows those nations to participate in activities of said nation. As said status does not itself exclude or include any one ideology in particular, we see no reason to particularly stand for or against it when our argument is on the nature of one ideology in particular."

by **Frenequesta** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:34 am

Mr. Berger wanted to interject something, but Casey restrained him. "If it's about the membership, let's cross-examine the GPH fellow instead. They'll be better able to answer." He sent a memo to the rest of the committee, over their attempts to get a foot in the microphone buzzer's door, and despite some mean looks by Mr. Autry, Ms. Song, and Mr. White to Casey for his tactic to stall discussion, the whole of them eventually agreed that Dao had made his point and there was little else they could ask him without either getting into some long philosophical discussion that was better left to scholars than politicians or otherwise had little purpose but to destroy the credibility of Dao. But Casey had to make sure.

"Any other questions from the Committee? No? Thank you Dao, you may be excused. We will hear Maurits Viljoen of Knootoss after a short five minute break. We also have a last minute schedule change to announce-- Minister Rubber Stamp of the Greater Pony Herd will immediately follow Mr. Viljoen instead of Ferris Ironshoes, who will be be rescheduled at 11:00 AM the second day of the hearings, and as a result we will end today's hearings at 4:00 PM after Mint Julep has finished."

It was a happy coincidence of needs, and perhaps luck of circumstance, that the rescheduling took place. Ferris had indicated to Secretary Smalls that he needed an extra day to rehearse his lines, and from the points raised by Dao it was clear to the Committee that it was necessary to clear up a few things about the nature of the Coalition as soon as possible. While the Committee did not actually know of Rubber Stamp's whereabouts, the next ship to come to LeMay Intergalactic from anywhere in the Pony Lands would come at noon and the one after that six hours later, so unless he was already seriously delayed he could not be late. By comparison, flights from Sadevko City, Bel-Gium, and Taerak came in every hour on the hour. It was this relatively infrequent flight pattern, combined with the growing influx of Pony immigrants, that was critical for Ferris, a Director for d'Artis Air and Interstellar, Frenequesta's flagship airline, and provided the basis of his own advocacy. At least he got more time to fully research the problem...

The subdued aura of the Committee room itself, with its artificial dark oak panelings and thin stretches of plasma lighting where only one "current" could be seen, clashed with the heightened voice of the audience, no longer muffled by the morning air. Of course, they weren't rioting, but more were clearly discussing the issues raised. Again Casey had to quiet them, but this time more bluntly.

"Order in the Committee Room, the Committee remains in session! Mr. Viljoen, you may proceed."

by **Knootoss** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:17 pm

Frenequestan Foreign Affairs Committee
Testimony of Maurits Viljoen, MP

A human man with golden wavy hair, a perfect smile and forget-me-not blue eyes stands, his billowing cloak falling over the chair behind him as he lays a hand over his heart, glancing at the photographers and pausing to smile and show off his gleaming white teeth. "Thank you, thank you" he offers spontaneously before sitting down and reading his statement:

particularly

The Knootian winks surreptitiously at the camera.

"But I am not here to talk about that today. Today, I am in the beautiful country of Frenequesta on the invitation of their Foreign Affairs committee, to talk about their prospective membership of the Coalition of Ponyist States. A coalition of Ponies."Viljoen pauses his address once more to smile around. Slowly declaring:

"Ponies, ponies ponies. They are adorable creatures with whom one can find no fault. In fact, I love to be photographed with them, because it shows that I am confident in my masculinity while at the same time proving to my fans that I am in touch with my feminine side. I submit the following slides as evidence to the committee..."
The room is darkened and a projector begins to run.

SLIDE ONE: A photograph of Maurits Viljoen shaking the paw of a serious-looking yet ultimately adorable pink magical pony that wears a monocle.

"Here I am, bonding with a Magical Pony entrepreneur. One of very few in Knootoss. But he's actually been integrating quite well into Knootian culture, owning significant stock in Pink Bunny Cola, a delicious soft drink that I have publicly endorsed."Click.

SLIDE TWO: A photograph of Maurits Viljoen reading from a Friendship is Magic picture book to a group of primary school children.

"Here I am at South-Western Hartstad Public Primary School, reading to little children from the class of Mrs. Wietjes and teaching the kids in her class a lesson about the importance of being yourself, using the Friendship is Magic franchise as a teaching tool."Click.

SLIDE THREE: A photograph of Maurits Viljoen at a petting zoo, feeding straw to a regular pony while a little girl with pigtails presents him with an extremely cute bunny.

magical

After some confused fussing around by the assistant it is determined that all the other slides are actually just featuring Viljoen with regular equinines of different stripes. The projector is turned off and the lights are undimmed. Viljoen is urged to get to the matter at hand:

Pony Invasion of Hippostania

sham elections

shameless colonialism

Ponyist takeover in a country called Crux Prime

Shrilland Defaulted

picture of him playing hoofball with a severed human head

Viljoen pulls a clownish face.

evil

Viljoen waits for the photographers to finish, then bows and takes his seat.

by **Frenequesta** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:59 am

Mr. Berger again took the initiative to start the questioning. Like many other members of the Socialist Republican Party, he was certainly concerned about the ethics of trading with Hippostania and other nations, but at the same time he had a stereotype of Knootians as shady characters. Articulating his raspy voice instead, he leaned over again to eye Mr. Viljoen.

"Mr. Viljoen, wasn't the very reason there was such an outrage in the Coalition when you "stood up for investors" was that your government ordered other nations to reimburse a few small Knootian investors? Your nation's plenty rich, and the amount wasn't all that much, and while Shrilland did comply with the forced trust fund contribution, it did put a bit of strain on the Shrill government. Why didn't your nation avoid this, and the sanctions from Orlkjestad that followed, by quietly reimbursing the investors from your own coffers, with all the interest expected from the maturation of those bonds?"

by **Knootoss** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:30 am

Maurits Viljoen looked rather confused and was about to say something when his arm was touched by the person sitting beside him, a stern, tall human woman who was clad in a pin stripe suit:

"Your Honour, I must request that the question be withdrawn due to a lack of relevancy. The witness, my client, isn't a spokesperson for the Knootian government. Moreover, the witness is here to testify about the wisdom of Frenequesta joining the Coalition of Ponyist States, and Knootian domestic financial regulations do not impact on that decision in any way.

Evidence related to the Shrill default was submitted to demonstrate a risk to Frenequestan trade. The Coalition refuses to bail out investors or show solidarity with allies in the event of a financial crisis. The Shrill default shows that the Coalition expects foreign investors to write off their entire investment if any member state choses, arbitrarily, to default or impose sanctions. That, Your Honour, is what is relevant here -- not whether the government that this witness is not a part of should have just forced investors to take the loss."

by **Frenequesta** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:56 pm

Casey nodded to the woman and addressed his fellow members back and forth. "All in favor of striking Mr. Berger's last question?"

Mr. Autry, Mr. Zhang, Mrs. Morgenstern, and Mr. Slater all gave an informal "aye" until Mr. Berger protested. "Casey, this is relevant-- it bears to a question about the way the Coalition reacts to any--"

"Too late," Casey interrupted, as the last Committee member, Mr. Wang, finally registered his "aye". "The Proctor will remove all transcription of the proceeding starting from Mr. Berger's last question to Mr. Viljoen from the Official Record," he seemed to state to the lights above him-- this was not surprising since the 'Proctor' was an automation in the ceiling. A small green light blinked rapidly, indicating reception of the request. Casey looked down. "The Committee will now resume."

Mrs. Daughtcombe was not as suspicious as Mr. Berger in regards to Knootoss' intentions, but she still had a question nonetheless. When her tiny, almost shy voice filled into her microphone, a few spectators in the audience perked up intently, almost staring at her-- Popular Legislature hearing watchers knew the longtime representative of the State of the Zappora Spas rarely asked a question in hearings, the last time being three years ago when there was a debate in merging the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of the Economy due to communication issues.

"So Mr. Viljoen, your position partly rests on the premise that any reasonable, rational, and ethical multinational organization that relies on economic ties has an imperative duty to act collectively in situations such as the Shrill default?"

by **Knootoss** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:21 pm

Maurits Viljoen and his lawyer conferred for a while, pouring over a tablet computer while selecting talking points with which to respond to this question. This having been done, Viljoen rose again:

prevent

after

really

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:43 am

Mr. Berger glared at Mr. Viljoen, whose question-dodging answer only confirmed his suspicions of him and the nation he stood for. But Mrs. Daughtcombe still had something to say.

"So you're saying yes. But what you just said doesn't take into account the continuing economic talks they've been conducting. While the first talk may not have produced anything of value for you, there is serious consideration, I've been told, of a standardization of credit agencies--partially in response to the Shrill default-- so the nations within can better evaluate the need of the member states and in their decision-making of whether to help them or not. Doesn't that sound like a positive step to you?"

Before Mr. Viljoen could answer, however, Mr. Kilkenny got a foot in the door. "Mr. Viljoen, do you know how long this Coalition has been around, or is this something the person--err Pony coming after you is better qualified to answer?"

by **Knootoss** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:41 am

Maurits Viljoen, who had been under the impression that he had answered the previous question rather well, seemed mildly surprised by the glare. Nevertheless, he conferred again with his lawyer to formulate a reply.

extreme

Viljoen then turned to Mr. Kilkenny. "I'm sure the Coalition has its founding date on their website?" he asked, seeming confused as to the purpose of the question.

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:36 pm

"Never mind, I was just trying to see if the youth of the Coalition is playing a factor in their supposed lack of progress," replied Mr. Kilkenny.

"If I could go back to Mrs. Daughtcombe's first question," Mr. White interjected, "I think the point she was trying to hint at is a question of why the Coalition has not acted collectively. Shrilland did not just solicit Coalition members for aid, and in any case, the voluntary initiative of one of the members-- YellowApple, I think it was-- was cited by the Shrills themselves as a major factor in them getting back on their feet. Now, if I were the 'leader' of the Coalition or even one of its members, who would otherwise be sympathetic to the plight of Shrilland out of Ponyist ideas of Kindness and Generosity or what have you, I know I am leading or trying to address a group of nations that have their own priorities and in any case would be difficult for them to agree on anything. I would be advised not to get every member state involved in the mess unless the situation has an effect on a significant number of the other members and/or all voluntary initiatives have been exhausted and still failed to produce any improvement. If this were the case, there might be a good chance I could get them to act collectively and appeal to the principles on which the Coalition was founded to generate that collective initiative. But here, the progress of the Shrill recovery did not seem, if my psychology on leadership is correct, to necessitate that collective action. I would be hard-pressed to believe that all organizations decide exactly what their structure is going to be, and how they plan to address all future problems a priori-- constitutions do not define the whole institution. If the problem of defaults does become an epidemic problem as you predict, there might be an even stronger incentive to actually act collectively for prevention. But so far, the Shrill situation is an isolated incident, and it is not completely predictable that for any one nation their increase of military, welfare, or economic spending will seriously hamper their chances of paying back debt. Those are my considerations, now what's your response?"

by **Knootoss** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:53 pm

Maurits' ears buzzed a bit and his lawyer, having noticed this, leaned forward:

"Your Honour, could you please ask the witness a question?"

by **Frenequesta** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:15 pm

Mr. White blinked for a moment, thinking he had asked a question, and one witnesses on other matters had at least attempted to address, and sighed.

"Very well, I'll get to the point. The fact that the Coalition has not implemented any collective institutions to date does not mean that they never will in the future. You may have some very good points on the structure of the Coalition itself, but that can be something that we as a member state can propose as reforms and persuade the others. Is there any reason to believe that the other member states will continue to let the problems get worse and worse without doing anything?"

Hoping that this would satisfy Mr. Viljoen and his lawyers, he took a sip of his water.

A Fox and Pony Show (IC, Open, ATTN CoPS and RoUS)

A Fox and Pony Show (IC, Open, ATTN CoPS and RoUS)

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