The Coalition of Ponyist States (In-character); (UPDATED)

[Crystal Spires]

"Civil rights abuses and slavery! That's something I can agree on, however the obvious must be said. Imeriata? And moreover half of the militant groups who suppress ideologies and freedom of speech, assembly, freedom of the press? Ah yes, and the right to due process and habeas corpus. No, I'm sure no one will agree to such things. They're far too Spirean for their tastes."

High Chancellor Maven Auryn

Leader of Crystal Spires

[Imeriata]

"How on earth would banning slavery be a stance against civil rights? would it not be more tyrannical to ban it?" Ulrik said as he looked towards the fellow from Lanos
"Quite frankly so would I have to say that I do find you territories without slaves obsession over the subject quite unnerving sometimes!" He continued which was true enough, all territories without slaves did in his experience complain about it all they could which was more than a bit annoying as they clearly were in the wrong

[Shrillland]

"See what I mean?" Orange Blossom quietly said to Moonfire.

[The Republic of Lanos]

"How on earth would banning slavery be a stance against civil rights? would it not be more tyrannical to ban it?" Ulrik said as he looked towards the fellow from Lanos
"Quite frankly so would I have to say that I do find you territories without slaves obsession over the subject quite unnerving sometimes!" He continued which was true enough, all territories without slaves did in his experience complain about it all they could which was more than a bit annoying as they clearly were in the wrong

You do know that several extremely large nations like the Ctanis and Allaenans would very much like to destroy the practice which your nation practices.

How do you people sleep at night with such bigoted thoughts? The threat of war? I don't know how you can...

[Imeriata]

"Well laying in bed as anyone else I suppose, a good book and a glass of brandy before also tends to make it a quite pleasant experience!" Ulrik said and shrugged "Though I must admit that I fail to see how my sleeping habits have anything to do with anything just as I fail to see why I or any good federal subject should have hard to fall asleep, as for the threat of foreign aggression is that something we are quite aware of though as some chap once said 'all evil need to succeed is for good men to do nothing' so we will not bow on a single point my good sir!"

[Conservita Victoria]

"See what I mean?" Orange Blossom quietly said to Moonfire.

'I see very clearly,' muttered Moonfire, 'Surely, in the interests of Harmony, we should not argue over silly issues like this as Harmony is not about making everyone the same but respecting each other's differences and the benefits they bring? Surely everyone here fits in somewhere? Be it socialists, communists or fascists, democracies, monarchies, even anarchies, as long as we work together to bring safety to our kind and those who advocate the protection of Ponies then surely it matters little whether one person views economic policy differently or feels the enslaving of dissidents, criminals or whatever to be correct because, in the end, we must fight against those against us and I am certain the world enjoys our divisions as much as some here resent them.'

[Shrillland]

"The world does enjoy our divisions, they enjoy watching us rip ourselves apart over them. I agree, something needs to be done. I just don't know what."

[Dizyntk]

Nisa and Kina look at each other for a moment and then turn to face the room.

Kina - "When the Dizyntk applied to observe the CoPS,"
Nisa - "We were under the impression that it existed"
Kina - "to protect sapient ponies everywhere from persecution"
Nisa - "simply because of the fact that they were sapient ponies."

Kina - "We did not think it mattered what the political"
Nisa - "or economic beliefs of the ponies in question were."

Kina - "Perhaps you need to refocus on that mission,"
Nisa - "and ignore each other's politcal beliefs."

Kina - "Otherwise you will never accomplish anything,"
Nisa - "and it will be innocent ponies that will suffer"
Both - "because the lot of you cannot get along."

[Ularn]

Nisa and Kina look at each other for a moment and then turn to face the room.

Kina - "When the Dizyntk applied to observe the CoPS,"
Nisa - "We were under the impression that it existed"
Kina - "to protect sapient ponies everywhere from persecution"
Nisa - "simply because of the fact that they were sapient ponies."

Kina - "We did not think it mattered what the political"
Nisa - "or economic beliefs of the ponies in question were."

Kina - "Perhaps you need to refocus on that mission,"
Nisa - "and ignore each other's politcal beliefs."

Kina - "Otherwise you will never accomplish anything,"
Nisa - "and it will be innocent ponies that will suffer"
Both - "because the lot of you cannot get along."

OOC: Yes, but we don't even agree on how to protect ponies. Half the reason the shitstorm started was because GPH wanted to indiscriminately carpet bomb an equuscidal nation with no regard for civilian casualties and the UIF said they'd bombard their navy from orbit if he tried.

Also, I really need to make a new pony to stand in for Starhoof.

[Conservita Victoria]

'Something tells me the issue is that perhaps the decided abundance of autonomy in the CoPS is the cause of Ponyist States running amok. While they may be acting in the best of interest, they overlook the fact that it can look bad on us. Perhaps having a War Council, or something to that effect, approving or stopping military actions, would help? Therefore we stop the issue before it begins. Or is there something already like that in operation?'

[Urmanian]

'Something tells me the issue is that perhaps the decided abundance of autonomy in the CoPS is the cause of Ponyist States running amok. While they may be acting in the best of interest, they overlook the fact that it can look bad on us. Perhaps having a War Council, or something to that effect, approving or stopping military actions, would help? Therefore we stop the issue before it begins. Or is there something already like that in operation?'

"Yes, there's already a Security Council..." - Sterling Silver said and groaned. - "But the last time it tried to do something about a war, every proposal was shot down because certain nations were paranoid of another certain nation's dominance over the Security Council...even though the Security Council is completely democratic and they chose the certain nation as a long-term member themselves! Tells you something about the state of things in the Coalition, huh?

[YellowApple]

"How on earth would banning slavery be a stance against civil rights? would it not be more tyrannical to ban it?" Ulrik said as he looked towards the fellow from Lanos
"Quite frankly so would I have to say that I do find you territories without slaves obsession over the subject quite unnerving sometimes!" He continued which was true enough, all territories without slaves did in his experience complain about it all they could which was more than a bit annoying as they clearly were in the wrong

Bastion Yorsets simply laughed. Normally, it would've ended with a chuckle, but it quickly evolved into full laughter. Soon there were tears in his eyes from the intensity of his guffawing.

"Banning slavery? Tyrannical? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

After regaining composure, Bastion's tone of voice switched to his normal tone of etiquette and politeness.

"I must inquire your reasoning behind your claim that an outlaw of slavery would be tyrannical. Is slavery not the servitude of an individual against said individual's will? I quite frankly do not understand how slavery is anything but tyrannical. If you have a counterargument supporting any justification of chattel slavery, please state it. I will refrain from further outright laughter."

[Imeriata]

"The right to own property is a gods given right for a freeman!" Ulrik said as he looked rather annoyed at the man from yellow apple, after all it was more than rude of the imputent commoner to dare to laugh at his social superiors like that
"To take away the right to won something like that would be just as tyrannical as banning for an example alcohol or the very food on your plate!" he continued truthfully enough in a rather cold voice. "Or if you would prefer a counter question; in what way is it tyrannical to allow a man to own what is rightfully his?"

[YellowApple]

Bastion rested his chin on his hoof with a bemused look.

"Well, good sir, do slaves have the right to own property? Or are they deemed unworthy for some arbitrary reason? Allow me to ask you this: what gives one individual the right to 'own' another? What makes that one individual better than the other? That is what I fail to see in your argument."

[Imeriata]

"why of course they do!" Ulrik said not that they could own much as they were not paid well though it was still a possibility
"As for the question so would the social hierarchy clearly show what chap was superior to the other, a slave would be the inferior one compared to a freeman regardless if he was a commoner or a nobleman just as a nobleman would stand above a commoner!" Ulrik continued to explain which was true enough, after all that was the right of blood, it was with that right his own house ruled over their lands and with that right the commoners in that land swore allegiance to them just as the high king ruled over all the federation with everyone, from the lowest slave and inferior species up to the highest nobleman bent their heads as his vassals so how anyone could even question that seemed not only silly but outright barbaric if Ulrik got to say so himself.

[YellowApple]

"Oh really? Could they own a slave of their own? And can a 'nobleman', as you put it, become a slave? What decides who is a slave and who is not?"

Bastion enjoyed this conversation much; it was interesting to see this end of slavery, after all, one enforced by "nobility". It harked back to his readings of YellowApplan history, a history where the criminals and the prisoners of war worked to earn their citizenship, and labored under the YellowApplan citizenry in the meantime.

"And yes, we can all see that this 'social heirarchy' is an indication of arbitrary superiority, but what makes a 'nobleman' better than a 'commoner'? Money? In that case, is it justified that an individual who - of no choosing of his own - happened to be born in this lower caste and - regardless of his actual character or capacity of intelligent thought - is regarded as sub-human?"

[Imeriata]

"Birthright, their blood and linage is what makes a nobleman better than a mere commoner as he can trace his linage back to great warriors or statesmen in the past!" Ulrik explained, that that even needed to be explained seemed quite strange to him as it was rather obvious.

"Of course it is birth that determines what position you will have in life, that is after all the proper way to to give a man or woman the position he or she should have! But I would have to say that a slave would hardly be considered a 'sub-human' as you called it as he would hardly be a member of the inferior species even if he was on the lower scale of the social hierarchy!" Ulrik continued to explain, after all a human slave stood a bit above them theoretically even if their positions were not that far from one another.

[Saurisisia]

While Ulrik talked, Andron yawned, opening his jaws wide showing off the sharp teeth aligning his maw, and stretched both his muscular arms and his huge wings. He adjusted his eyeglasses as he pretended to listen to the Imerian rant when really, he wasn't paying attention to it.

[YellowApple]

"Well one's ancestors are certainly not of his choosing, now are they? Why must he be punished for not being fortunate enough to be born of noble blood?

"There is also the issue of consent. What are the repercussions of a slave refusing to be a slave? On that subject, how does one become a slave in the first place?"

[Princess Luna]

"Her Highness' government feels that this is not a productive area of discussion," Trixie said, "However, Her Highness wishes to request the permission of the Imeriatan government to visit their fine country, to build relations and understanding on both sides of our mutual disagreement on the matter of slavery."

[YellowApple]

Bastion sighed, resting his head in his hooves tiredly and boredly.

"Yes, I suppose we are losing track of ourselves, now aren't we? Well then, are there any other matters to discuss at present?

"I do wish to announce that, according to the 6Bnd International Peacekeeping Force, a decisive YellowApplan-Marshite victory has been declared in North Fantoa, with the Fantoan capitol, Fantoa City, being under complete YellowApplan control and their former Chancellor Bismarck being pursued for arrest at present."

[Imeriata]

"A slave refusing to be a slave? that would hardly be his choice after all, that would be up to his master, though I must point out that, that is the proper way to decide positions in society, those blessed with better blood rules, those without obeys just as it should be!" Ulrik pointed out, after all you were born to the position in society that you were born to and that was how things like that was decided.

"And to become a slave would one need to be either sold into it, either imported from a foreign country or voluntarily sold on a federal slave market, or born into the position!" he continued as Snöhof nodded at his side, after all that was how she had become his in the first place before they both looked rather suprised at Luna, after all they had not really expected her to ask something like that.

"Uhmm sure princess, I am sure that I would be able to inform his royal highness, may his rule last longer than the stars in the heavens above, of your wish and arrange something!" he said as he turned towards the pony that was supposed to be a sort of goddess if you asked the rest of the ponies even if she did not seem as a goddess to him.

[YellowApple]

Trixie =/= Princess Luna. The former is the one who's here, last I checked

"I can hardly see how there is any argument of the morality of slavery if a slave cannot choose to not be a slave. Suppose, hypothetically, you were born as a slave, and did not want to be a slave. Would it truly be justified for your hypothetical master to deny you the right to personal sovereignty that every sapient being is entitled to? So long as you being free does not harm your master or anyone else, is your master morally justified in forcing you to accept being beneath him?"

It was genuinely intriguing to Bastion how seemingly hard-set this Imeriatan man was that slavery was an acceptable practice. It made him wonder if early YellowApplans were the same way, stubborn when faced with the prospect that their ownership of servants was immoral.

[Conservita Victoria]

'Enough!' Moonfire had had enough, 'Is this anyway we should conduct ourselves? You both have differing opinions, so what? If this was a Coalition of Anti-Slave States, I may understand the anger but we are not that organisation. I ask Ulrik, where does the notion of slavery come into stopping the hatred parts of the world feel for the multi-coloured equine millions?'

[Imeriata]

"That would in that case be well within his right as my owner to do so as that was what I was born as! T'is the way of things" Ulrik said and shrugged, after all that was how things were you were born to a place in the social hierarchy and you lived in that place, the nobleman ruled, the commoner obeyed, it was as simple as that, that anyone would actually question that was actually quite surprising if you asked him.

then did he turn towards some other pony that cried and he gave her a annoyed look, after all he was only defending a freemans rights and that that pony talked to him in that manner was actually rather outrageous.

"Gods be damned if I know!" he said even if that was hardly the truth, if you asked him so could each and every pony in the room be assigned an Imerian master and have the high culture take control of their homelands and after that so would everything be better, granted that could be said about most people.

"Though I would like to point out that I was merely defending a freeman's rights as it was suggested that the coalition should take a stance against it!"

Trixie =/= Princess Luna. The former is the one who's here, last I checked

OOC: That would imply that Ulrik can tell them apart... and that I am not a lazy bugger that does not read what I am supposed to read carefully enough.