A semi-independent nation of freed slaves

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

The Anglo-Saxon government is willing to give up a large area of land to a new semi-independent state of freed slaves provided all funding for the new state is provided by foreign states, and private donations, and all hired work is done by companies based in Luthoria, or for no charge by foreign or domestic companies. This new state will be set up as a representative democracy with an upper house of 50 Senators, and a lower house of 200 Representatives who must have been born in the state, or a former slave. The head of government will need to meet the same criteria.

The Luthorian government estimates that the total cost for the formation of the new state, including purchasing the land, purchasing the slaves, purchasing the building materials, and hiring the workers will come to around $2,500,000,000,000 ($2.5 trillion). If the amount of money needed is met in a relatively short amount of time the project will begin, if there are not enough funds, the money that hasn't been spent will be refunded.

Donations are accepted in the form of
Money
Skilled Labour
Building Materials
Construction or transportation vehicles
Trained psychiatrists

When the slaves are purchased, attempts will be made to purchase keep families together as well as possible, and counseling will be provided to help them get used to freedom, working for a living, and living with their families that they never knew they had.

Total Monetary Donations/Goal
$103,830,000,000
$105,000,000,000

Labour Donations
130,000

Material Donations
1000 sheets of Sheetrock
5 cubic kilometers of Concrete
1000 sheets of glass
one ton of Timber
200,000,000 tonnes - Concrete
200,000,000 tonnes - Steel Reinforcing Bars
300,000,000 tonnes - Insulation


Vehicle Donations
10,000 Transport Vehicles
10,300 Construction Vehicles

Psychiatrist Donations
10,0010

[Goldsaver]

We are willing to donate to this project, and have many volunteers ready to help build up this state. This is a large scale donation from us, and we expect this state to be prosperous group of Freedmen.
We are willing to donate the following, provided by the Republic itself:
100,000,000,000 USD
10,000 Transport Vehicles
10,000 Construction Vehicles (We expect you to return most of these when you're done with them)

We wish to know exactly what building material you need.

The following are the volunteers who wish to help build up this state:
10,000 government sponsored Psychiatrists
100,000 Skilled Laborers

Note that while the monetary donation is as much as the Republic can provide, private donations will likely increase if the state needs more funding.

[The Planet Carpathia]

The Planet Carpathia is willing to meet up to $25 million of the cost and we could just about stretch to $100 million if need be. If this project does go ahead, a significant degree of further help will be forthcoming, far exceeding the monetary value of any donations we can give to them.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

We are willing to donate to this project, and have many volunteers ready to help build up this state. This is a large scale donation from us, and we expect this state to be prosperous group of Freedmen.
We are willing to donate the following, provided by the Republic itself:
100,000,000,000 USD
10,000 Transport Vehicles
10,000 Construction Vehicles (We expect you to return most of these when you're done with them)

We wish to know exactly what building material you need.

The following are the volunteers who wish to help build up this state:
10,000 government sponsored Psychiatrists
100,000 Skilled Laborers

Note that while the monetary donation is as much as the Republic can provide, private donations will likely increase if the state needs more funding.

Due to the small population, odds are that most buildings in the nation for the next few decades will be simple one or two story stores and houses, so we are mostly in need of sheet rock, insulation, concrete, asphalt, wood, and glass, with steel to help support some of the few buildings over two or three stories tall. As for the construction and transport vehicles, we will obviously return them once the state is firmly established.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

The Planet Carpathia is willing to meet up to $25 million of the cost and we could just about stretch to $100 million if need be. If this project does go ahead, a significant degree of further help will be forthcoming, far exceeding the monetary value of any donations we can give to them.

Thank you a lot for your donation.

[Menelmacar]

If this state for freedmen is meant to be sovereign, what right have you to determine who shall fund them, what their contractors should charge, or where they should be from?

And if it is not meant to be sovereign... precisely how far are you willing to go to keep it that way, I wonder?

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

If this state for freedmen is meant to be sovereign, what right have you to determine who shall fund them, what their contractors should charge, or where they should be from?

The state will be allowed to pass any laws it wishes within reason, however it will be protected by the Anglo-Saxon military, and the Anglo-Saxon government will watch over the state to prevent an authoritarian government from rising to power, or a caste system from being formed.

[Jamalon]

We shall donate $50 million.
300 Construction Vehicles
And 10 Psychiatrist.

[Goldsaver]

Due to the rather large end goal of 2.5 trillion, we would suggest that for the state, (On this topic, what will the state be named?) you should start taking out long-term bonds to pay for this, and then allow the state to handle the debt when it is developed enough to begin doing so.

On the topic of building materials, we need a general idea of how much material you actually need.

[Menelmacar]

If this state for freedmen is meant to be sovereign, what right have you to determine who shall fund them, what their contractors should charge, or where they should be from?

The state will be allowed to pass any laws it wishes within reason, however it will be protected by the Anglo-Saxon military, and the Anglo-Saxon government will watch over the state to prevent an authoritarian government from rising to power, or a caste system from being formed.

This doesn't especially answer the question of what basis you have for limiting their means of attracting funding or investment, or in requiring that they use your companies for all government work.

It also doesn't answer the question of what happens if they don't trust your military -- being the instruments of slavers' will, and all -- and would rather have one of their own, or seek help from other allies.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

Due to the rather large end goal of 2.5 trillion, we would suggest that for the state, (On this topic, what will the state be named?) you should start taking out long-term bonds to pay for this, and then allow the state to handle the debt when it is developed enough to begin doing so.

On the topic of building materials, we need a general idea of how much material you actually need.

OOC: I have no clue about the amounts of building materials. The monetary funding will include purchasing building materials and renting or purchasing vehicles, so the overall monetary goal will be lowered depending on other donations.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

The state will be allowed to pass any laws it wishes within reason, however it will be protected by the Anglo-Saxon military, and the Anglo-Saxon government will watch over the state to prevent an authoritarian government from rising to power, or a caste system from being formed.

This doesn't especially answer the question of what basis you have for limiting their means of attracting funding or investment, or in requiring that they use your companies for all government work.

It also doesn't answer the question of what happens if they don't trust your military -- being the instruments of slavers' will, and all -- and would rather have one of their own, or seek help from other allies.

The government is giving up some of its land to help form this new state, thus it would like domestic companies to be given preferential treatment when it comes to the contracts for construction and supplying materials. If a state or private contractor from another country is willing to do it for free they will obviously be chosen unless a domestic company offers the same.

As for the military protecting them, why should they be worried about the military? They are being legally purchased by private individuals and given their freedom, the state has no reason nor justification to in any way take away their rights or freedoms. If they wish to in time form their own military, or make their own alliances, they will be allowed to do such, the sole job of the military is to police the state and protect it until it has the size, economic independence, and individual autonomy to function on its own.

[Menelmacar]

The government is giving up some of its land to help form this new state, thus it would like domestic companies to be given preferential treatment when it comes to the contracts for construction and supplying materials. If a state or private contractor from another country is willing to do it for free they will obviously be chosen unless a domestic company offers the same.

Generally speaking, I would think that contractors would be contracting with the new state itself, rather than with the government of the ASE. While 'free' is a fine example of 'the lowest bidder', you're not going to find many people other than charities and volunteers willing to work for free, and charities and volunteers have relatively limited expertise at things like building large-scale infrastructure. In fact, some might call it 'slavery'.

Are you indicating that the government of the freedmen state is not permitted to engage in business relationships without ASE oversight?

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

The government is giving up some of its land to help form this new state, thus it would like domestic companies to be given preferential treatment when it comes to the contracts for construction and supplying materials. If a state or private contractor from another country is willing to do it for free they will obviously be chosen unless a domestic company offers the same.

1. Generally speaking, I would think that contractors would be contracting with the new state itself, rather than with the government of the ASE.

2. While 'free' is a fine example of 'the lowest bidder', you're not going to find many people other than charities and volunteers willing to work for free, and charities and volunteers have relatively limited expertise at things like building large-scale infrastructure. In fact, some might call it 'slavery'.

3. Are you indicating that the government of the freedmen state is not permitted to engage in business relationships without ASE oversight?

1. The government doesn't exist yet, the state will be formed once all of the infrastructure is completed, and the new population can move in and elect a government.

2. Currently many governments and charities have already offered to supply tens of thousands of vehicles, and hundreds of thousands of skilled labourers without the private organisations having to spend a dime. If there are enough skilled labourers and heavy machinery supplied by foreign governments, no one will be hired at all.

3. No, I never stated, nor implied that. Once the state is formed it may spend its budget however it wishes within reason (for example if the state had a 60% tax rate and had 90% of their budget go towards the military we would intervene).

[Menelmacar]

Then they are fools. They're donating mass amounts of money, equipment, manpower, and materials to build infrastructure for you solely on the promise of a slaver nation that it will create a nation for freed slaves.

This seems to be roughly equivalent to North Korea soliciting donations to build infrastructure in one of its provinces on the basis that when the infrastructure is complete, said province will be calved off into an independent nation for dissidents against the North Korean regime. Noble in theory perhaps but we both know it would never actually happen; the promise would not be kept.

My compliments, though, on an epic scam.

[Goldsaver]

Then they are fools. They're donating mass amounts of money, equipment, manpower, and materials to build infrastructure for you solely on the promise of a slaver nation that it will create a nation for freed slaves.

This seems to be roughly equivalent to North Korea soliciting donations to build infrastructure in one of its provinces on the basis that when the infrastructure is complete, said province will be calved off into an independent nation for dissidents against the North Korean regime. Noble in theory perhaps but we both know it would never actually happen; the promise would not be kept.

My compliments, though, on an epic scam.

We believe they have already made it clear that it is a private group making the freed state, which violates none of their laws. Their government isn't the type to launch such a large scale scam.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

1. Then they are fools. They're donating mass amounts of money, equipment, manpower, and materials to build infrastructure for you solely on the promise of a slaver nation that it will create a nation for freed slaves.

2. This seems to be roughly equivalent to North Korea soliciting donations to build infrastructure in one of its provinces on the basis that when the infrastructure is complete, said province will be calved off into an independent nation for dissidents against the North Korean regime. Noble in theory perhaps but we both know it would never actually happen; the promise would not be kept.

3. My compliments, though, on an epic scam.

1. Except the slaves are being purchased, we have no actual reason to re-enslave them (which is against the law here), or simply annex their state for the free infrastructure, and have 1,000,000 free people that are barely able to function and have no support. Furthermore, if we were simply going to annex the country or re-enslave the slaves than why would we hire or request that psychiatrists donate their time to help slaves get used to being free?

2. Except slaves aren't really dissidents, generally speaking they are better off than free people from most nations our own included, they have pretty much the same rights as free people sans workers rights, a recent law makes it mandatory that all slaves be given 14 years education, and the slaves are being freed.

3. Well believe what you wish, but this isn't a scam.

[Menelmacar]

Nope. Have a look at the original post again. It's a government initiative and they go out of their way to state that all the funding must come from foreign sources and if foreign firms want to participate they must work for free. Even if they keep their promises, they're basically scamming $2.5 trillion from the international community for a whole pile of free infrastructure. They want you to buy the land, they want you to pay their companies to develop it (or do it yourselves for free), they want you to provide the manpower and equipment, all so you can hand it back to them so they will maybe let freed slaves live there. Under the watchful eye of their own military, of course.

ASE, create the state now, provide it interest free loans for this $2.5 trillion, and let them handle the business relationships and collecting the donations. You are a slaver nation, you continue to be a slaver nation, you've just formed an alliance of slaver nations, and as long as you are a slaver nation your vested interests will continue to lie with the continuation of the trade in slaves. The Menelmacari government will continue to be skeptical of these half-measures, especially if you follow through in 'protection of ships transporting slaves' and 'punishment of those who harm those who engage in the slave trade'.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

Nope. Have a look at the original post again. It's a government initiative and they go out of their way to state that all the funding must come from foreign sources and if foreign firms want to participate they must work for free. Even if they keep their promises, they're basically scamming $2.5 trillion from the international community for a whole pile of free infrastructure. They want you to buy the land, they want you to pay their companies to develop it (or do it yourselves for free), they want you to provide the manpower and equipment, all so you can hand it back to them so they will maybe let freed slaves live there. Under the watchful eye of their own military, of course.

ASE, create the state now, provide it interest free loans for this $2.5 trillion, and let them handle the business relationships and collecting the donations. You are a slaver nation, you continue to be a slaver nation, you've just formed an alliance of slaver nations, and as long as you are a slaver nation your vested interests will continue to lie with the continuation of the trade in slaves. The Menelmacari government will continue to be skeptical of these half-measures, especially if you follow through in 'protection of ships transporting slaves' and 'punishment of those who harm those who engage in the slave trade'.

1. No it isn't, it is a private venture, with the government providing resources that private individuals cannot come up with, such as land for an autonomous country to be placed on. We are asking for the support of foreign states because private individuals providing 2.5 trillion worth in supplies and money is nearly impossible, especially in a state where most people either don't care about slavery, or simply envy slaves for their easy lives. Also, I never said anything about the military watching over the state, they will help police the state until the former slaves (who due to their raising are generally adverse to any form of violence) can take control themselves and set up their own government. If other states wish to control the policing they can feel free to volunteer soldiers, although we will obviously limit thier donations since they are sending soldiers right next door to us.

2. I never said we would handle business relations ever, at all. The state DOES NOT EXIST YET, it will be formed when the private individuals organizing it have the funding to ensure that the project will be completed, once the slaves are purchased, released, the state is given its autonomy, and they elect a government, they can do whatever they wish within reason. Also, if you actually looked at that 'alliance' it is nothing like an alliance it is more like 'hey, lets join together and have mandatory laws for the protection of slaves while using our combined resources to fight piracy and terrorism against our states.' Also, we have never said anything about ending our slave trade, but if this project works out the government will see the potential for slaves (who due to breeding, upbringing, and past experience were believed to have a difficult time living freely) to live free and not simply end up ruining their lives since they are used to being submissive and overall looked down on by free people.

[Tarasovka]

And then the skies broke apart and thunder came upon the ground, for Taraskovyan and Menelmacari positions met together in complete agreement.

Menelmacari explanations are straight on the point and to the core. The feeble slaver attempts to counter them are not convincing. However, the Taraskovyan government finds the Menelmacari position as somewhat lacking in ambition. As such, the Taraskovyan position shall be taken somewhat further on the very initiative:

1. The ASE initiative is a scam of international proportions to favour further exploitation of slaves.

2. All have by now been informed that this initiative is a scam in a series of well argumented Menelmacari explanations and clarifications.

3. Stemming from #2, all those who have contributed sums of money are to rescind, within the limits of what is possible, their transfers or donations. They are to turn around ships, planes, trucks, donkeys transporting the physical donations. Lacking this possibility, the nations and organisations that have already made contributions are to condemn the ASE initiative. Failing which they shall be found in support of the slaver initiative.

4. Stemming from #2, all those who continue to continue voluntarily to donate shall be found in support of the slaver initiative.

5. Stemming from #3 and #4, all nations and organisations found to be in support of the slaver initiative shall be blacklisted by the government of the Taraskovyan Empire. All commercial dealings with such organisations and nations, as well as individuals directly involved, shall be forbidden.

6. Stemming from Taraskovyan law, those who take part in the trafficking and exploitation of slaves, take part in a criminal enterprise and are liable for different measures of punishment depending on the exact crimes committed, including the death penalty.

[The Anglo-Saxon Empire]

And then the skies broke apart and thunder came upon the ground, for Taraskovyan and Menelmacari positions met together in complete agreement.

Menelmacari explanations are straight on the point and to the core. The feeble slaver attempts to counter them are not convincing. However, the Taraskovyan government finds the Menelmacari position as somewhat lacking in ambition. As such, the Taraskovyan position shall be taken somewhat further on the very initiative:

1. The ASE initiative is a scam of international proportions to favour further exploitation of slaves.

2. All have by now been informed that this initiative is a scam in a series of well argumented Menelmacari explanations and clarifications.

3. Stemming from #2, all those who have contributed sums of money are to rescind, within the limits of what is possible, their transfers or donations. They are to turn around ships, planes, trucks, donkeys transporting the physical donations. Lacking this possibility, the nations and organisations that have already made contributions are to condemn the ASE initiative. Failing which they shall be found in support of the slaver initiative.

4. Stemming from #2, all those who continue to continue voluntarily to donate shall be found in support of the slaver initiative.

5. Stemming from #3 and #4, all nations and organisations found to be in support of the slaver initiative shall be blacklisted by the government of the Taraskovyan Empire. All commercial dealings with such organisations and nations, as well as individuals directly involved, shall be forbidden.

It isn't a scam, if you want proof you can look at the liberalization of my slavery policy, such as all slaves being given 14 years of education just like all free people, or the formation of a union of slave states to help improve the image of slavery and liberalize the laws in other nations by having high entrance standards when it comes to treatment of slaves, or the fact that we are offering other states the right to help provide police forces if they don't trust us.

OOC:
Now, if anyone else believes this is a scam leave this thread, you can spam messages to the nations that are donating warning them, if you get in trouble I do not care, if you continue to spam my thread I will contact the mods.

As an added note, if this is a scam any nation who does lose money can feel free to retcon their donation whenever.

[Menelmacar]

The reason they do not have funding is because you will not provide it. As I previously suggested, create this state now, and issue it $2.5 trillion in interest free loans. Let them use this money to build their infrastructure, for which they, not you, will contract with, or solicit donations from, foreigners. Currency donations to the new state can be used against the balance of their loan, with the remainder to be covered by bond issues like those of any other sovereign state.

Immediately withdrawing from UHON and ending the trade of slaves within the ASE would also go a long way to demonstrate your goodwill and honest intent towards these freedmen.

[Menelmacar]

tag

2003 called, they want their forum conventions back.

You don't need to do that anymore, and it is in fact frowned upon. At the bottom of your screen you will see a link that reads 'Subscribe to topic'. Click that.

Presto! You have now tagged the thread in a way that doesn't spam other participants. You can access a list of your subscribed threads via your User Control Panel.

[Goldsaver]

...On to the topic of building materials, then.
We wish to donate 1000 sheets of Sheetrock, level three finish, 5 cubic kilometers of Concrete, 1000 sheets of glass, and one ton of Timber. We do not know how much steel or asphalt you require, so we will withhold those for now. After we get the steel and asphalt to you, we believe it is fair to say the Republic has done its part in creating a nation of Freedmen, and will refrain from any further contributions unless it is necessary.

[Mediterreania]

[filler space for upcoming post]