International Freedom Coalition (OOC, APPS TEMP CLOSED)

[Inyourfaceistan]

This has gone on long enough.

I'm ignoring Lib&Aus from here on out.

[Flardania]

If nobody is willing to concede anything, there can be no compromise. I'd ask both sides to realize that neither of them is being particularly "cooperative" and "reasonable," even if they imagine themselves to be. Such is the nature of rivalry and pride.

You can both pretend that you're the "reasonable" side, but if neither of the factions is willing to suck up their pride just a tiny bit, and admit that they could be wrong on one point or another, then compromise is impossible, and we literally just have clashing ideologues which results in these uncomfortable clashes that absolutely nobody wants to see. Nobody supports either of you, really; we all just want to see this to end and are, broadly, getting annoyed with both camps. There is nothing to win by arguing further.

And that's no good for an alliance that needs to be based on consensus, debate, and compromise. Please, please, please, try to find a solution to this without being petty or hostile towards one another.

Hey I take offense that you only see two sides, there is a third dammit! love ya Dae don't hurt me lol

[Krjder]

Gee whiz! I leave for a while and come back to this?

[Common Territories]

Snip

I just wanted to make two points in response to your portion regarding myself.

• I don't know where you got your stats on how many ships would pass through my waters, but to be honest I wouldn't accept it unless it had solid written fact on the detail. I'd have to agree to it for it to be fact. This would be through written agreements (storefronts), an agreement by myself and others (discussion or embassy thread application), or I personally signed off on it.
• You do not know who I trade with. I have an extensive network of people I trade with that are not allies, I have OOC friends who I likely say we're trading as we speak, I trade with many SACTO members through verbal agreements on the matter, my less then modern embassy thread has gotten plenty of trade deal requests, and this all not probably my most significant income. I own NS' largest PMC business (which im actually updating as we speak to it's a modern version) which brought in plenty of cash in the past and serves as an historical achievement of mine; I own a successful energy storefront that I've sorta let go to the dumps because my earlier priorities have drawed me away (it's still open of course and has had decent business), and of course my most successful project, Wolf Armaments, brought me in $15,644,828,774,667 last year total and $1,028,554,532,698 NSD so far this year (I have an order pending that's quite large, so it will change when I get enough energy to answer it). So to say my trade is only significantly to SACTO only would be wrong, and to say SACTO members would be harmed by my policies more would be wrong (since they follow the rules likely when using my waters).
• Sue me? You want 200K for every ship detoured? Sure, I'd say if I didn't care. Im plenty rich enough to pay off such compensation demand without it even crossing my mind as financially hurting. But would I? No. I wouldn't pay one damn ransom payment, which is what we'd call it, to you or anyone for diverting a ship that tried to invade our waters. And sue me? Where exactly? If it's not in TECT do you plan to sue me in some random country somewhere like your own? Because if you plan on 'suing' me in some other land it's going to be ignored and/or laughed at; other courts have no jurisdiction on TECT nor would we even bother showing up. We wouldn't pay you a damn cent - in fact, we may demand payments from you for wasting our times having to respond to an ignorant ship trying to test our patience; that of course if we didn't already take the ship and items on-board and sold it to compensate the losses of the military operation. And FYI, TECT waters are TECT jurisdictions (it's a state's first up until a point until it goes to more open water where it's imperial first).

[Bashriyya]

OOCly inventing an extra country to gain IC advantage is bad form and I'm ignoring it.

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

[United States of Conner]

OOCly inventing an extra country to gain IC advantage is bad form and I'm ignoring it.

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

He's the Prime Minister.

[Bashriyya]

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

He's the Prime Minister.

Ah, that explains it, maybe the power has gone to his head?


Maybe the IFC should put someone more responsible in?

like New Carsolo or Inyursta.

[Inyourfaceistan]

like New Carsolo or Inyursta.

Haha, no.

Not even I would float that motion...

[United States of Conner]

That was a tricky bit to RP in the Summit, but I think I did all right.

He's the Prime Minister.

Ah, that explains it, maybe the power has gone to his head?


Maybe the IFC should put someone more responsible in?

like New Carsolo or Inyursta.

I meant that since the PM does not have the power to expel a standard member, it would be ... difficult for a member to move to expel the PM.

Besides, despite the fact that some of us disagree with Lib on certain issues, doesn't mean we want to expel him. Hell, I would vote for him again.

[Bashriyya]

That was a tricky bit to RP in the Summit, but I think I did all right.

Ah, that explains it, maybe the power has gone to his head?


Maybe the IFC should put someone more responsible in?

like New Carsolo or Inyursta.

I meant that since the PM does not have the power to expel a standard member, it would be ... difficult for a member to move to expel the PM.

Besides, despite the fact that some of us disagree with Lib on certain issues, doesn't mean we want to expel him. Hell, I would vote for him again.

but he is breaking centuries long peace between the two sacred groups.

[Guadalupador]

OOCly inventing an extra country to gain IC advantage is bad form and I'm ignoring it.

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

Bashyyria, Are you trying to cause internal strife? We've got enough already.

[New Aeyariss]

OOCly inventing an extra country to gain IC advantage is bad form and I'm ignoring it.

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

Seriously, leave IFC to it's own affairs. Our only concern here is ensuring SACTO security; not who is in power in the IFC.

[Bashriyya]

I did not invent an extra country for an IC advantage, again you are wrong.

But anyway, perhaps Lib should be expelled from the IFC for causing such tension with SACTO.

Seriously, leave IFC to it's own affairs. Our only concern here is ensuring SACTO security; not who is in power in the IFC.

Which is also an excellent point, but why is the IFC concerned with the affairs of SACTO?

[Guadalupador]

Seriously, leave IFC to it's own affairs. Our only concern here is ensuring SACTO security; not who is in power in the IFC.

Which is also an excellent point, but why is the IFC concerned with the affairs of SACTO?

Didn't Cus tell you to leave?

[Narintia]

Would a direct democracy be alllowed? Just wondering.

[Flardania]

Would a direct democracy be alllowed? Just wondering.

I don't see why not

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

If nobody is willing to concede anything, there can be no compromise. I'd ask both sides to realize that neither of them is being particularly "cooperative" and "reasonable," even if they imagine themselves to be. Such is the nature of rivalry and pride.

THIS.

You don't have to be a psychologist to know that negotiation is a two-way lane

HYPOCRITE! That has been my point in negotiations. You can't dictate terms. Negotiation, as you so rightly say, is a two-way lane.

All that Ausitoria seeks is the ability for the IFC to function - and for IFC members to act - without constant interference from SACTO. We are not your puppets. We are trying to be neutral, and SACTO is making it impossible.

IFC, do you even want not to have to kowtow to SACTO?

Anyway, if SACTO refuses to compromise and allow this, we have a problem. As I said in my TG, you cannot dictate terms, because that will lead to confrontation, and confrontation between two sides that will not compromise in a war that will never stop will not be pretty for anybody. Nobody wins in total war, even in nuclear weapons are left off the table. The ability to wage war = willpower x resources. Ausitoria, for funny cultural reasons, has an immense willpower to defend a centrist, neutral, trading bloc - because otherwise this moderate bloc will never have any functional independence.

Therefore, you de-escalate, you compromise. That is how the world works.

And Riysa, obviously you ommitted to include Cuscy's earlier TG, when he'd threatened Ausitoria with some hypersonic gravity vehicle and new SLM. As for why I didn't use public channels, I was chatting with Cuscy to see whether their nation would be interested on an informal level - why should I bother making a pretty diplomatic post if I'm going to get a humiliating official response which will simply lead to a long argument?

Glad to see Cuscy has had the sense to avoid that long public argument. [/sarcasm]

Tl; dr: SACTO must learn to compromise, and accept that not everybody is with them or against them: some simply want to be ambivalent in a multipolar world.

(Only the Sith think in absolutes).

Would a direct democracy be alllowed? Just wondering.

Direct democracies always evolve into democracies with governments. Or cease to exist.

[Narintia]

Yeah, no.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Yeah, no.

We have elections every three months, we have a Council which can overrule the Prime Minister (hypothetically) - what more do you want? To disband the government?

[Narintia]

Disband that goverment

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Disband that goverment

Yeah, what does the government do?

Let me think...
um, nothing....

Except:
Military tenders, military bases, military exercises, heritage and conservation projects, trade negotiations, summits, joint scientific research programmes, military training, ambassadors...

[Narintia]

Volunteering- people can volunteer to defend the land
Heritage- People can defend it themselves.
trade negotiations: Just vote on what the people think!
Summits: Elect a person to represent the nation, using preferential voting!

[Aeyariss]

So I see things between IFC and SACTO is as merry as ever...

Just agree to RP with 2ria to use nukes...we'll let fly and destroy the whole world in the first opening posts.

Also, shouldn't you and your administration resign after the failure of Reso.4?

[Flardania]

Disband that goverment

Yeah, what does the government do?

Let me think...
um, nothing....

Except:
Military tenders, military bases, military exercises, heritage and conservation projects, trade negotiations, summits, joint scientific research programmes, military training, ambassadors...

We do realize Narinta is speaking of their own nation and not the ifc government...

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Yeah, what does the government do?

Let me think...
um, nothing....

Except:
Military tenders, military bases, military exercises, heritage and conservation projects, trade negotiations, summits, joint scientific research programmes, military training, ambassadors...

We do realize Narinta is speaking of their own nation and not the ifc government...

Oh. Well, there's a failed state in the making - it's even more important that sovereign nations have at a least a minimally functional government. Although something tells me it'll end up like Switzerland, which actually does have a government.

Since the Prime Minister's let's-have-an-independent-foreign-policy policy is now laid bare for all to see, I just want to check - does the IFC actually support the idea of being able to treat itself as an equal to SACTO, free to choose whether it wants to compromise with SACTO, or free to go its own way, or free to go its own way in some policy areas and work together in others? Free to choose its own destiny, in short?