The Real World Violations Rule

[The Most Glorious Hack]

But when the daggers and derringers start being pulled out because someone wants a "40 hour work week" (why look, there is not only the term "hour" but "week" in this one) I just bang my head against wall; it's just plain stupid.

Yes, I remember certain players taking insanely hardline stances on Proposals they didn't like, claiming just about any noun they could find was a real world violation.

And I remember shooting them down and telling them to stop being stupid.

[Mousebumples]

With thanks to Kenny and DSR, we have this proposed rewording of the rule:

World Assembly laws are written for the world of NationStates and the fictional countries therein, so your proposal shouldn't contain any references to the real world. This includes specific references to real world persons (Barack Obama, Max Barry), places (London, Israel, Mediterranean), organizations/treaties (NATO, Geneva Convention, Google), or events, such as "following 9/11", "in the light of last week's shooting", "before the next presidential election".

Generic references to things that also exist in the world of NationStates are allowed, for example religions (Christianity), political philosophies (capitalism), languages (English), scientific measurements (kg), and phenomena (desertification).

Any other comments? A part of me wonders if the wording wouldn't be clearer to start with what's permitted and follow it with what's not. However, I can also see some overlap between some of the examples (English) and possibly branding (citing my national religion of Mousebumplism would arguably be branding), but that might get a bit too confusing to clarify fully in an optimally concise ruleset.

[Bears Armed]

With thanks to Kenny and DSR, we have this proposed rewording of the rule:

World Assembly laws are written for the world of NationStates and the fictional countries therein, so your proposal shouldn't contain any references to the real world. This includes specific references to real world persons (Barack Obama, Max Barry), places (London, Israel, Mediterranean), organizations/treaties (NATO, Geneva Convention, Google), or events, such as "following 9/11", "in the light of last week's shooting", "before the next presidential election".

Generic references to things that also exist in the world of NationStates are allowed, for example religions (Christianity), political philosophies (capitalism), languages (English), scientific measurements (kg), and phenomena (desertification).

Any other comments? A part of me wonders if the wording wouldn't be clearer to start with what's permitted and follow it with what's not. However, I can also see some overlap between some of the examples (English) and possibly branding (citing my national religion of Mousebumplism would arguably be branding), but that might get a bit too confusing to clarify fully in an optimally concise ruleset.

As I remarked earlier in this thread, allowing "things that also exist in the world of NationStates" but not "things that only exist in the world of NationStates" would effectively privilege those players whose nations are heavily based on RL concepts over those players who invent more details themselves. Opposed.
Can't we just stick to 'proper nouns' forbidden, other nouns allowed?

[Tzorsland]

With thanks to Kenny and DSR, we have this proposed rewording of the rule:

I like the rewording.

[Kaboomlandia]

Why don't we call it this.

Real Life Violations

The real world doesn't exist in NationStates. You cannot use RL proper nouns in your proposal. This means that Barack Obama, Vladimir Putin, China, the Earth, and the EU are out.

Your proposal may mention other nouns.

[Christian Democrats]

Examples:

• Barack Obama, Karl Marx, Max Barry

I don't see what would be wrong with an indirect reference to Marx in a resolution.

Recognizing that Marxist scholars consistently have found that so-called "free" trade is used by capitalists and their bourgeois allies to exploit the proletariat...

If there's an exemption for major religions, there should also be an exemption for major political ideologies.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Sure, I was just going off precedent. OMGTKK cut that example anyway.

[Bears Armed]

Examples:

• Barack Obama, Karl Marx, Max Barry

I don't see what would be wrong with an indirect reference to Marx in a resolution.

Recognizing that Marxist scholars consistently have found that so-called "free" trade is used by capitalists and their bourgeois allies to exploit the proletariat...

If there's an exemption for major religions, there should also be an exemption for major political ideologies.

So, would I be allowed to reference "O Southwoods-ist scholars", too?

[Snefaldia]

I don't see what would be wrong with an indirect reference to Marx in a resolution.

Recognizing that Marxist scholars consistently have found that so-called "free" trade is used by capitalists and their bourgeois allies to exploit the proletariat...

If there's an exemption for major religions, there should also be an exemption for major political ideologies.

So, would I be allowed to reference "O Southwoods-ist scholars", too?

Are you being serious?

[Bears Armed]

So, would I be allowed to reference "O Southwoods-ist scholars", too?

Are you being serious?

Well, obviously it wouldn't be a RL reference as such, but as I commented earlier it would seem a bit unfair to start allowing RL-based references under a relaxation of this rule while still classing any NS RP-based references as illegal for Meta-gaming and/or Branding...

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

That's forced roleplay. I suppose its time will come when the Metagaming discussion begins.

[Bears Armed]

That's forced roleplay. I suppose its time will come when the Metagaming discussion begins.

Well, as far as I know the Bears aren't in a world where Karl Marx existed, so I'd argue that requiring them to recognise his existence is "forced roleplay" too...

[The Dark Star Republic]

That's forced roleplay. I suppose its time will come when the Metagaming discussion begins.

Well, as far as I know the Bears aren't in a world where Karl Marx existed, so I'd argue that requiring them to recognise his existence is "forced roleplay" too...

Can't we leave the discussion of that stupid "forced roleplay" rule for the MetaGaming thread?

[Excidium Planetis]

That's forced roleplay. I suppose its time will come when the Metagaming discussion begins.

Well, as far as I know the Bears aren't in a world where Karl Marx existed, so I'd argue that requiring them to recognise his existence is "forced roleplay" too...

But then someone could say "Yeah, well my nation is in a world where guns don't exist, so firearms regulations are forced roleplay!" or something stupid like that.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Did you not read the response to that remark? Forced roleplay's time will come; till then, focus on the RL violations rule.

[Tzorsland]

Forced roleplay's time will come

That is almost sig worthy.

[Luziyca]

I think that term "dollars" in reference to the Universal Standard Dollar or the NationStates Dollar should also be used, but I do not really object.

[Tzorsland]

I would object only to the extent that economies are all over the place so that no real fixed units of currency should be mentioned whatsoever. Monies or funds probably would be better terms in resolutions.

[Frisbeeteria]

Summary of proposed changes:

• Consensus that the rule is needed, multiple disagreements to the extent it should apply
• This proposed rewrite appeared to get the most consensus:
  

  World Assembly laws are written for the world of NationStates and the fictional countries therein, so your proposal shouldn't contain any references to the real world. This includes specific references to real world persons (Barack Obama, Max Barry), places (London, Israel, Mediterranean), organizations/treaties (NATO, Geneva Convention, Google), or events, such as "following 9/11", "in the light of last week's shooting", "before the next presidential election".
  
  Generic references to things that also exist in the world of NationStates are allowed, for example religions (Christianity), political philosophies (capitalism), languages (English), scientific measurements (kg), and phenomena (desertification).

• Some discussions about potential or actual overlaps with the Metagaming rule, which have yet to be adequately addressed