1912: The World and a Powder Keg [AltHis|OOC|Dead]

[Sao Nova Europa]

Also (sorry for double post but wanted people not to miss this) the reason I wanted a great power was that ideally I wanted to give a general framework with a nation app but IC play as a political party and give other players the chance to also do this. I thought this kind of collaboration would be cool since the RP allows it - ideally France or United States would work with that framework, but both are taken.

[Tracian Empire]

Most of the usual great powers have been taken, though some reservations might expire later in the week. Japan and Italy are the two great powers that are still free.

China is also free and is also arguably a major state - particularly since a PoD from 1885 onward would give players a lot of leeway in improving the situation there.

Reserving China, simply so it is not taken by someone else, but still not sure imo

Would China with 1885 PoD be in a position similar to Meiji Japan in 1912 or would that be too much?

Reaching Meiji Japan levels would be difficult because Japan had 40 years to modernize and militarize until 1912, China would only have had 27.

However, assuming that whichever faction or government manages to strengthen its rule, China could certainly be well on its way of becoming a regional power and a serious contender for Japan. The timeline also allows you to deal with the First Sino-Japanese War in a different manner (although Korea is independent, and Russia still gets into a war with Japan later)

[Tracian Empire]

Also (sorry for double post but wanted people not to miss this) the reason I wanted a great power was that ideally I wanted to give a general framework with a nation app but IC play as a political party and give other players the chance to also do this. I thought this kind of collaboration would be cool since the RP allows it - ideally France or United States would work with that framework, but both are taken.

If either player allows it I'd be more than alright with it, it was one of the reasons for why I included the organization application.

I am of course offering the Ottomans for anyone interested, but well, with the CUP reuniting both the Unionists and the Liberals, there isn't much of a political scene.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Also (sorry for double post but wanted people not to miss this) the reason I wanted a great power was that ideally I wanted to give a general framework with a nation app but IC play as a political party and give other players the chance to also do this. I thought this kind of collaboration would be cool since the RP allows it - ideally France or United States would work with that framework, but both are taken.

If either player allows it I'd be more than alright with it, it was one of the reasons for why I included the organization application.

I am of course offering the Ottomans for anyone interested, but well, with the CUP reuniting both the Unionists and the Liberals, there isn't much of a political scene.

One of my initial ideas was joining as the Ottomans that went into federalism + constitutionalism route, which would allow players to join as a number of political parties (ideological or ethnic/religious), but Ottomans are already taken

Reserving China, simply so it is not taken by someone else, but still not sure imo

Would China with 1885 PoD be in a position similar to Meiji Japan in 1912 or would that be too much?

Reaching Meiji Japan levels would be difficult because Japan had 40 years to modernize and militarize until 1912, China would only have had 27.

However, assuming that whichever faction or government manages to strengthen its rule, China could certainly be well on its way of becoming a regional power and a serious contender for Japan. The timeline also allows you to deal with the First Sino-Japanese War in a different manner (although Korea is independent, and Russia still gets into a war with Japan later)

Can China have either defeated or forced Japan into a draw? Because crushing defeat means reforms failed, which would give China even shorter time for any reforms

[Tracian Empire]

If either player allows it I'd be more than alright with it, it was one of the reasons for why I included the organization application.

I am of course offering the Ottomans for anyone interested, but well, with the CUP reuniting both the Unionists and the Liberals, there isn't much of a political scene.

One of my initial ideas was joining as the Ottomans that went into federalism + constitutionalism route, which would allow players to join as a number of political parties (ideological or ethnic/religious), but Ottomans are already taken

Reaching Meiji Japan levels would be difficult because Japan had 40 years to modernize and militarize until 1912, China would only have had 27.

However, assuming that whichever faction or government manages to strengthen its rule, China could certainly be well on its way of becoming a regional power and a serious contender for Japan. The timeline also allows you to deal with the First Sino-Japanese War in a different manner (although Korea is independent, and Russia still gets into a war with Japan later)

Can China have either defeated or forced Japan into a draw? Because crushing defeat means reforms failed, which would give China even shorter time for any reforms

Yeah, unfortunately I do need my centralist government for the aggressive modernization, but some concessions have been made to appease the liberals. Most of the Empire's ethnic minorities have political parties represented in the Chamber of Deputies, but the reunited CUP has a large majority, so that's why I didn't think that nay players would be interested. Still, assuming that people want to play the underdogs, those parties do exist, and there is an election coming in early 1912.

As for China, yeah, I think it certainly could have forced a draw. There are nine years before it that China could have used to better modernize its forces.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Could that draw have involved China being forced to make concessions about status of Korea but Japan not taking over Taiwan?

[Tracian Empire]

Could that draw have involved China being forced to make concessions about status of Korea but Japan not taking over Taiwan?

It would make sense. Some concessions in Korea could still lead eventually to a pretext forcing Russia into a war with Japan. And since Taiwan was only taken by Japan then and there is no Japanese player, you can change its history and have it stay Chinese.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Could that draw have involved China being forced to make concessions about status of Korea but Japan not taking over Taiwan?

It would make sense. Some concessions in Korea could still lead eventually to a pretext forcing Russia into a war with Japan. And since Taiwan was only taken by Japan then and there is no Japanese player, you can change its history and have it stay Chinese.

Alright then. Reserving Qing + Taiwan

[Empire of Techkotal]

There is, but one problem I see potentially with China. What's gonna happen with the Boxer revolution and the treaty cities the western powers got out of it?

[Sao Nova Europa]

There is, but one problem I see potentially with China. What's gonna happen with the Boxer revolution and the treaty cities the western powers got out of it?

I assume this never happened since it would mean reforms failed - if there was such a rebellion, it would have been crushed by the reformist gov.

[Empire of Techkotal]

There is, but one problem I see potentially with China. What's gonna happen with the Boxer revolution and the treaty cities the western powers got out of it?

I assume this never happened since it would mean reforms failed - if there was such a rebellion, it would have been crushed by the reformist gov.

Great one colony less to worry about.

Also anyone wanna take Cameroon, Togo, Papua Guinea and all the German Pacific Isles? If possible the German government would have sold them, after facing backlash, because of a financial scandal and reduced unnecessary spending.

[Cybernetic Socialist Republics]

Nation Application

Full Nation Name: Empire Français

#ODQHVVF (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

The US claimed all American territories by 1912, so Panama and the Panama Canal are American. Siam on the other hand could have become French. As for the Kra Canal, I don't see much about its feasibility online - but as long as you keep the likely high cost in mind, and the negative effects it would have had on French-British relations (by weakening the economic position of Singapore), sure.

The population feels a little too large. A militarized revolutionary state could presumably be focusing more on natality, but overturning France's low birth rate from 1888 to now would still be somewhat limited in scope. 42 million, or maybe 43 would be the largest that feels feasible. The difference for colonies is smaller, the 1921 numbers are 55,556,000, + Siam's 8 million.

Other than that, the app looks alright.

Ok I've change that, but was looking to add something that'd strech the french navy more, so I've replaced it with something else.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

Most of the usual great powers have been taken, though some reservations might expire later in the week. Japan and Italy are the two great powers that are still free.

China is also free and is also arguably a major state - particularly since a PoD from 1885 onward would give players a lot of leeway in improving the situation there.

Reserving China, simply so it is not taken by someone else, but still not sure imo

Would China with 1885 PoD be in a position similar to Meiji Japan in 1912 or would that be too much?

I mean, if we assume that someone miraculously unified and began the tedious process of unfucking it staggeringly effectively, then it could actually be more powerful than Meiji Japan.

[Tracian Empire]

The US claimed all American territories by 1912, so Panama and the Panama Canal are American. Siam on the other hand could have become French. As for the Kra Canal, I don't see much about its feasibility online - but as long as you keep the likely high cost in mind, and the negative effects it would have had on French-British relations (by weakening the economic position of Singapore), sure.

The population feels a little too large. A militarized revolutionary state could presumably be focusing more on natality, but overturning France's low birth rate from 1888 to now would still be somewhat limited in scope. 42 million, or maybe 43 would be the largest that feels feasible. The difference for colonies is smaller, the 1921 numbers are 55,556,000, + Siam's 8 million.

Other than that, the app looks alright.

Ok I've change that, but was looking to add something that'd strech the french navy more, so I've replaced it with something else.

I'm alright with France owning Hispaniola, but the notion that Haiti would just bow to French interests like that seems unlikely considering how they also refused the US to build a base. My personal suggestion would be to replace the Lüders affair with a similar situation but with a French citizen, and with the French maybe invading or subsequently taking over one way or another.

But do keep in mind that regardless of the way France got there, French control or influence in the Caribbean would likely strain France's relations with the US.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

So, is this app ok, or should I do a little tweaking?

[Intermountain States]

Reserving China, simply so it is not taken by someone else, but still not sure imo

Would China with 1885 PoD be in a position similar to Meiji Japan in 1912 or would that be too much?

I mean, if we assume that someone miraculously unified and began the tedious process of unfucking it staggeringly effectively, then it could actually be more powerful than Meiji Japan.

Which in itself a very difficult (not impossible but difficult) prospect to take on due to China’s massive size, both in population and geography.

[Sao Nova Europa]

MAJOR WORK IN PROGRESS

Nation Application

Full Nation Name: Empire of China

Short Nation Name: China

National Symbols:


Capital:

Territory:

Form of Government:

Head of State:

Head of Government:

Ideology:

Population:

Military Description:

Economic Description:

Goals:

Point of Divergence: 1889

History:

When the Tongzhi Emperor died in 1875, his son was only eight years old. So a regent, Empress Dowager Cixi, ruled in his place. In 1889, the Guangxu Emperor was old enough to rule on his own. A reformist, he issued decrees allowing the establishment of a modern university in Beijing, the construction of the Lu-Han railway, and a system of budgets similar to that of Western governments. His reformist agenda caused an attempted coup in 1891. The coup failed and Empress Cixi was stripped of her ranks and placed under house arrest.

With the reactionary forces defeated, the Guangxu Emperor was free to pursue further reforms. On the local level, the Baojia system was implemented, which included the establishment of a modern police system and the expansion of local organizational functions. Autonomous research institutes were set up in the urban areas, to promote modern Western-style education. The army was reformed, with Western-style education for officers, many of whom were sent abroad for education. A new code and judicial system came into law. The system of fiscal control and tax collection was expanded and regularized.

The newly reformed Chinese army performed exceptionally well in the Sino-Japanese War over the status of Korea. While China was forced to make concessions over the status of Korea to Japan, the Japanese failed to capture Taiwan. While by no means a victory, the draw showcased how far China had come compared to even a few years ago. Bolstered by its success in the war and gaining broad popularity amongst the populace, the army became more relevant in Chinese politics - especially those young officers educated in the West and who were influenced by the ideas of liberalism and nationalism.

In 1907, Western-educated military officers staged the Beijing Revolution. Regiments of the military took positions in strategic parts of the city and demanded that the Guangxu Emperor promulgate a Western-style constitution. The Emperor accepted the ultimatum. In the 1908 elections, the Nationalist Party led by intellectual and activist Sun Yat-sen, was triumphant and want an imposing majority in parliament. His government has since then pursued a number of reforms, including setting up the first Chinese Central Bank, further modernizing tax collection, and investing in railroad construction. China is a rising power and many see it as potentially becoming the new giant of Asia.

Now, in 1912, Sun Yat-sen hopes to get reelected...

#ODQHVVF (do not delete this, it's for keeping track of the apps)

[Cybernetic Socialist Republics]

Ok I've change that, but was looking to add something that'd strech the french navy more, so I've replaced it with something else.

I'm alright with France owning Hispaniola, but the notion that Haiti would just bow to French interests like that seems unlikely considering how they also refused the US to build a base. My personal suggestion would be to replace the Lüders affair with a similar situation but with a French citizen, and with the French maybe invading or subsequently taking over one way or another.

But do keep in mind that regardless of the way France got there, French control or influence in the Caribbean would likely strain France's relations with the US.

I'd figure the lump sum payment/no more debt payments to france + reestablishment of control over the dominican republic would go far enough but if not I'll probably just drop that part entirely.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

I mean, if we assume that someone miraculously unified and began the tedious process of unfucking it staggeringly effectively, then it could actually be more powerful than Meiji Japan.

Which in itself a very difficult (not impossible but difficult) prospect to take on due to China’s massive size, both in population and geography.

It has the resources, population and space to be a great power…

Anyhow, I have a compromise for France; we can have a Suez style agreement, in that France and America at some point signed a treaty to both contribute, and hence both benefit from the canal?

[Empire of Techkotal]

I'm alright with France owning Hispaniola, but the notion that Haiti would just bow to French interests like that seems unlikely considering how they also refused the US to build a base. My personal suggestion would be to replace the Lüders affair with a similar situation but with a French citizen, and with the French maybe invading or subsequently taking over one way or another.

But do keep in mind that regardless of the way France got there, French control or influence in the Caribbean would likely strain France's relations with the US.

I'd figure the lump sum payment/no more debt payments to france + reestablishment of control over the dominican republic would go far enough but if not I'll probably just drop that part entirely.

Wanna buy a few German colonies instead?

[Deblar]

Reservation

Nation Name: Republic of Haiti
Territory: The island of Hispaniola (Haiti+Dominican Republic)
#ODQHVVF (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

[The Rio Grande River Basin]

I assume this never happened since it would mean reforms failed - if there was such a rebellion, it would have been crushed by the reformist gov.

Great one colony less to worry about.

Also anyone wanna take Cameroon, Togo, Papua Guinea and all the German Pacific Isles? If possible the German government would have sold them, after facing backlash, because of a financial scandal and reduced unnecessary spending.

Teddy Roosevelt comes in screaming Bully

Absolutely!

I’ll take them (cuz duh).

[Tracian Empire]

Reservation

Nation Name: Republic of Haiti
Territory: The island of Hispaniola (Haiti+Dominican Republic)
#ODQHVVF (Do not delete this, it is used to keep track of the apps)

*Note: Reservations will last for 48 hours. The OP reserves the right to be subjective in regards to accepting and removing reservations.

This is complicated, because CSR has just updated his app to also include French control over Hispaniola. If he is willing to give up that claim, I can accept your reservation, alternatively you could play a French-aligned Haiti.

[Empire of Techkotal]

Great one colony less to worry about.

Also anyone wanna take Cameroon, Togo, Papua Guinea and all the German Pacific Isles? If possible the German government would have sold them, after facing backlash, because of a financial scandal and reduced unnecessary spending.

Teddy Roosevelt comes in screaming Bully

Absolutely!

I’ll take them (cuz duh).

Great do you have a date in mind and which colonies you wanna buy?

[Tracian Empire]

Which in itself a very difficult (not impossible but difficult) prospect to take on due to China’s massive size, both in population and geography.

It has the resources, population and space to be a great power…

Anyhow, I have a compromise for France; we can have a Suez style agreement, in that France and America at some point signed a treaty to both contribute, and hence both benefit from the canal?

It has them all, which is certainly can, but there is also a question of time.

Still, considering its resources, the 27 years that Sao can play around with could certainly establish China as a rising and strong regional power, even more so if it avoids the defeat at the hands of Japan and the Boxer Rebellion.