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The Manticoran Empire
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10506
Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:19 am

American Pere Housh wrote:Nationstates Name: American Pere Housh
Nation Name: The Ottoman Empire
Capital: Istanbul
Territory: IRL Ottoman territory held in 1904 plus Egypt minus the Suez Canal
Population: 41.5 million
Official Language: Ottoman Turkish, Arabic and Persian
Recognized Languages: Ottoman Turkish, Arabic, Persian, Kurdish, Albanian, Armenian, Aromanian, Assyrian Neo-Aramaic (Suret), Western Neo-Aramaic, Berber (Tamazight), Bulgarian, Cappadocian Greek, all the Caucasian languages, Coptic, Chagatai Turkic, Crimean Tatar, Crimean Gothic, Croatian, Domari, Gagauz, Georgian, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hungarian, Judeo-Arabic, Judeo-Aramaic, Judaeo-Spanish, Kurdish, Latin, Laz, Megleno-Romanian, Polish, Pontic Greek, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, Serbian, Slovak, Ukrainian, Urum, Yevanic, Zazaki, Bosnian English, French
Flag: Same as IRL
National Anthem (optional): Ottoman National Anthem

Head of State: Sultan Abdul Hamid II
HoS Picture: (Image)
Head of Government: Prime Minister Mehmed Ferid Pasha (Ottoman Conservative Party)
HoG Picture (If different from HoS): Prime Minister Mehmed Ferid Pasha
Legislature Name: The Imperial Parliament (A unicameral body containing 300 seats with each province being fairly represented. Note that all people of all ethnicities and religions are allowed to run for office.)
Party in Power (If bicameral note who controls each): Ottoman Conservative Party (Secular Center-right to rightwing party- 180 seats); Opposition Parties: The Ottoman Democratic Union (Centrist Party- 80 seats), The Ottoman Liberal Democratic Party (Center-left Party- 39 Seats), The Ottoman Socialist Party (Far-left Party- 1 seat)

Major Domestic Issues: The Issues plaguing the Ottoman Empire domestically is the rising instability in Bosnia and a minor corruption problem in Libya.
Major Foreign Issues: Growing border dispute with Austro-Hungary over Bosnia and Russia's push for Bulgarian independence

GDP: 24 billion USD (1904)
Currency: Ottoman Lira
Economic policy Overview: The Ottoman Empire has a free market economy with some government intervention. In 1852, the Ottoman Empire began its Industrial Revolution in order to catch up with rest of Europe. As a result of this economic expansion, the Ottoman economy began to boom with a brief period between 1885-1888 were the economy slipped into a recession. In June 1888, the economy began growing again and by the start of the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire was thriving economically with one of the largest economies in the world.

Military Information: Unlike IRL, the Ottoman military was not neglected and was well funded enabling it to be modernized. The Ottoman Navy due to a powerful Ottoman economy was able to maintain its strength into the modern era with 3 dreadnoughts, 4 battlecruisers, 4 pre-dreadnought battleships, 3 coastal defense ships, 6 light cruisers, 6 protected cruisers, 25 destroyers, 2 submarines, 30 minelayers and 4 armored gunships (Avnillah-class ironclad). The Imperial Ottoman Army is 750,000 soldiers on active duty and another 500,000 in reserve. All units have been armed with mainly modern British arms with some outdated Turkish arms in the reserve units. The reasoning behind a large military is the looming threats from the Austrians and the Russians.

Alliances: The Ottoman Empire has a military and economic alliance with the United Kingdom to help contain Austria and Russia.
Diplomatic Policy: The Ottomans maintain good relations with Japan, Italy, Germany, China, the United States, Brazil and the United Kingdom. Its relations with Iran are tense but friendly with the Ottomans recognizing Iran's independence. Its relations with Austro-Hungary is overtly hostile due to the Austrian's illegal annexation of Bosnia and the relationship with Russia is cold but cordial.

History Changes (Subject to review and approval by OP and Co-OP): The Ottoman Constitution of 1876 was never overturned with key changes was the turning of the Ottoman Empire into a constitutional monarchy similar to the United Kingdom but with unicameral Parliament, anti-discrimination laws on the bases of race, ethnicity, religion, gender (male or female), and place of origin; a ban on slavery. The Industrial Revolution occurred in the Ottoman Empire leading to economic prosperity for the Ottoman people. Like the UK, the Constitution of 1876 puts the power that the sultan had into the hands of a prime minister but unlike the prime minister, the Ottoman people have a choice in the matter. Due to these various economic and social reforms, the Ottoman Empire isn't collapsing and is prospering.


Do not remove - Alpha777

Alright, let's break this down.

First of all, the Ottoman Constitution of 1876 failed IRL due to the Russo-Turkish War (1877-1878), even after a British intervention that saw less harsh terms imposed on the defeated Ottomans. In this timeline, the Russo-German Alliance forces the Turks to accept the terms of the Treaty of San Stefano, resulting in the loss of the entirety of the Balkans. I'm not sure where the anti-discrimination laws in the 19th century come from because that's just not really a thing. But, in any event, the Russo-Turkish War and Treaty of San Stefano would place even MORE pressure on the Sultan who IRL overturned the Constitution than there was IRL.
So Bosnia-Herzegovina and Bulgaria are already independent. Those disputes are effectively just Turkey being bitter over losing a war 30 years before. Which checks out but still.


Second, dreadnoughts and battlecruisers are not a thing. At all. It is 1904, my guy. The Dreadnought concept was the brainchild of Admiral Jackie Fisher, who actually wanted HMS Dreadnought to be the LAST battleship ever built, replaced by his battlecruiser pet project. And even then, where are they getting the industry to build those massive ships in such numbers? Ships of that size take, on average, 5 years to build. So, the 11 ships you have would take 27.5 years to build, from the laying of the keel of the first one to the commissioning of the last one, IF you build two at a time. IRL, the Ottomans never built even one battleship. They only ever laid down one themselves and it was never completed. It sat, unfinished, in a slipway for two decades before they finally scrapped it. Every battleship the Ottomans ever operated was foreign built, mostly German. So, with that in mind, where are you getting the slipways, the armor manufacturers, the gunsmiths, the machinery builders, the yard workers, any of that? None of that exists in the Ottoman Empire, not at the scale you'd need.

Third, where are you getting those economic figures from? $578 per capita GDP? A 7-fold increase over IRL? How is this accomplished?

Fourth, Libya is a Spanish colony while Egypt is still British. How do you have any control over those regions?
Last edited by The Manticoran Empire on Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

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American Pere Housh
Senator
 
Posts: 4503
Founded: Jan 12, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby American Pere Housh » Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:53 pm

The Manticoran Empire wrote:
American Pere Housh wrote:Nationstates Name: American Pere Housh
Nation Name: The Ottoman Empire
Capital: Istanbul
Territory: IRL Ottoman territory held in 1904 plus Egypt minus the Suez Canal
Population: 41.5 million
Official Language: Ottoman Turkish, Arabic and Persian
Recognized Languages: Ottoman Turkish, Arabic, Persian, Kurdish, Albanian, Armenian, Aromanian, Assyrian Neo-Aramaic (Suret), Western Neo-Aramaic, Berber (Tamazight), Bulgarian, Cappadocian Greek, all the Caucasian languages, Coptic, Chagatai Turkic, Crimean Tatar, Crimean Gothic, Croatian, Domari, Gagauz, Georgian, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hungarian, Judeo-Arabic, Judeo-Aramaic, Judaeo-Spanish, Kurdish, Latin, Laz, Megleno-Romanian, Polish, Pontic Greek, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, Serbian, Slovak, Ukrainian, Urum, Yevanic, Zazaki, Bosnian English, French
Flag: Same as IRL
National Anthem (optional): Ottoman National Anthem

Head of State: Sultan Abdul Hamid II
HoS Picture: (Image)
Head of Government: Prime Minister Mehmed Ferid Pasha (Ottoman Conservative Party)
HoG Picture (If different from HoS): Prime Minister Mehmed Ferid Pasha
Legislature Name: The Imperial Parliament (A unicameral body containing 300 seats with each province being fairly represented. Note that all people of all ethnicities and religions are allowed to run for office.)
Party in Power (If bicameral note who controls each): Ottoman Conservative Party (Secular Center-right to rightwing party- 180 seats); Opposition Parties: The Ottoman Democratic Union (Centrist Party- 80 seats), The Ottoman Liberal Democratic Party (Center-left Party- 39 Seats), The Ottoman Socialist Party (Far-left Party- 1 seat)

Major Domestic Issues: The Issues plaguing the Ottoman Empire domestically is the rising instability in Bosnia and a minor corruption problem in Libya.
Major Foreign Issues: Growing border dispute with Austro-Hungary over Bosnia and Russia's push for Bulgarian independence

GDP: 24 billion USD (1904)
Currency: Ottoman Lira
Economic policy Overview: The Ottoman Empire has a free market economy with some government intervention. In 1852, the Ottoman Empire began its Industrial Revolution in order to catch up with rest of Europe. As a result of this economic expansion, the Ottoman economy began to boom with a brief period between 1885-1888 were the economy slipped into a recession. In June 1888, the economy began growing again and by the start of the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire was thriving economically with one of the largest economies in the world.

Military Information: Unlike IRL, the Ottoman military was not neglected and was well funded enabling it to be modernized. The Ottoman Navy due to a powerful Ottoman economy was able to maintain its strength into the modern era with 3 dreadnoughts, 4 battlecruisers, 4 pre-dreadnought battleships, 3 coastal defense ships, 6 light cruisers, 6 protected cruisers, 25 destroyers, 2 submarines, 30 minelayers and 4 armored gunships (Avnillah-class ironclad). The Imperial Ottoman Army is 750,000 soldiers on active duty and another 500,000 in reserve. All units have been armed with mainly modern British arms with some outdated Turkish arms in the reserve units. The reasoning behind a large military is the looming threats from the Austrians and the Russians.

Alliances: The Ottoman Empire has a military and economic alliance with the United Kingdom to help contain Austria and Russia.
Diplomatic Policy: The Ottomans maintain good relations with Japan, Italy, Germany, China, the United States, Brazil and the United Kingdom. Its relations with Iran are tense but friendly with the Ottomans recognizing Iran's independence. Its relations with Austro-Hungary is overtly hostile due to the Austrian's illegal annexation of Bosnia and the relationship with Russia is cold but cordial.

History Changes (Subject to review and approval by OP and Co-OP): The Ottoman Constitution of 1876 was never overturned with key changes was the turning of the Ottoman Empire into a constitutional monarchy similar to the United Kingdom but with unicameral Parliament, anti-discrimination laws on the bases of race, ethnicity, religion, gender (male or female), and place of origin; a ban on slavery. The Industrial Revolution occurred in the Ottoman Empire leading to economic prosperity for the Ottoman people. Like the UK, the Constitution of 1876 puts the power that the sultan had into the hands of a prime minister but unlike the prime minister, the Ottoman people have a choice in the matter. Due to these various economic and social reforms, the Ottoman Empire isn't collapsing and is prospering.


Do not remove - Alpha777

Alright, let's break this down.

First of all, the Ottoman Constitution of 1876 failed IRL due to the Russo-Turkish War (1877-1878), even after a British intervention that saw less harsh terms imposed on the defeated Ottomans. In this timeline, the Russo-German Alliance forces the Turks to accept the terms of the Treaty of San Stefano, resulting in the loss of the entirety of the Balkans. I'm not sure where the anti-discrimination laws in the 19th century come from because that's just not really a thing. But, in any event, the Russo-Turkish War and Treaty of San Stefano would place even MORE pressure on the Sultan who IRL overturned the Constitution than there was IRL.
So Bosnia-Herzegovina and Bulgaria are already independent. Those disputes are effectively just Turkey being bitter over losing a war 30 years before. Which checks out but still.


Second, dreadnoughts and battlecruisers are not a thing. At all. It is 1904, my guy. The Dreadnought concept was the brainchild of Admiral Jackie Fisher, who actually wanted HMS Dreadnought to be the LAST battleship ever built, replaced by his battlecruiser pet project. And even then, where are they getting the industry to build those massive ships in such numbers? Ships of that size take, on average, 5 years to build. So, the 11 ships you have would take 27.5 years to build, from the laying of the keel of the first one to the commissioning of the last one, IF you build two at a time. IRL, the Ottomans never built even one battleship. They only ever laid down one themselves and it was never completed. It sat, unfinished, in a slipway for two decades before they finally scrapped it. Every battleship the Ottomans ever operated was foreign built, mostly German. So, with that in mind, where are you getting the slipways, the armor manufacturers, the gunsmiths, the machinery builders, the yard workers, any of that? None of that exists in the Ottoman Empire, not at the scale you'd need.

Third, where are you getting those economic figures from? $578 per capita GDP? A 7-fold increase over IRL? How is this accomplished?

Fourth, Libya is a Spanish colony while Egypt is still British. How do you have any control over those regions?

The Russo-Turkish War wasn't as bad as IRL due to British intervention at the start of the war and the modern arms that were being provided to me by the British since the early 1850's so the war was more of a stalemate. As for the ship issue, I had help from the UK in building my ships in this time line, not Germany. The Ottoman Empire had started its own Industrial revolution so we had a long period of growth with that 3 year period in a recession. I would like to dispute Spain's claim over Libya as it was never theirs to begin with and Egypt never regained its independence in this timeline so the British never gained control of it though I did let them have the Suez Canal. How did Spain obtain Libya?
Government Type: Militaristic Republic
Leader: President Alexander Jones
Prime Minister: Isabella Stuart-Jones
Secretary of Defense: Hitomi Izumi
Secretary of State: Eliza 'Vanny' Cortez
Time: 2023
Population: MT-450 million
Territory: All of North America, The Islands of the Caribbean and the Philippines

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The Manticoran Empire
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10506
Founded: Aug 21, 2015
Anarchy

Postby The Manticoran Empire » Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:47 pm

American Pere Housh wrote:
The Manticoran Empire wrote:Alright, let's break this down.

First of all, the Ottoman Constitution of 1876 failed IRL due to the Russo-Turkish War (1877-1878), even after a British intervention that saw less harsh terms imposed on the defeated Ottomans. In this timeline, the Russo-German Alliance forces the Turks to accept the terms of the Treaty of San Stefano, resulting in the loss of the entirety of the Balkans. I'm not sure where the anti-discrimination laws in the 19th century come from because that's just not really a thing. But, in any event, the Russo-Turkish War and Treaty of San Stefano would place even MORE pressure on the Sultan who IRL overturned the Constitution than there was IRL.
So Bosnia-Herzegovina and Bulgaria are already independent. Those disputes are effectively just Turkey being bitter over losing a war 30 years before. Which checks out but still.


Second, dreadnoughts and battlecruisers are not a thing. At all. It is 1904, my guy. The Dreadnought concept was the brainchild of Admiral Jackie Fisher, who actually wanted HMS Dreadnought to be the LAST battleship ever built, replaced by his battlecruiser pet project. And even then, where are they getting the industry to build those massive ships in such numbers? Ships of that size take, on average, 5 years to build. So, the 11 ships you have would take 27.5 years to build, from the laying of the keel of the first one to the commissioning of the last one, IF you build two at a time. IRL, the Ottomans never built even one battleship. They only ever laid down one themselves and it was never completed. It sat, unfinished, in a slipway for two decades before they finally scrapped it. Every battleship the Ottomans ever operated was foreign built, mostly German. So, with that in mind, where are you getting the slipways, the armor manufacturers, the gunsmiths, the machinery builders, the yard workers, any of that? None of that exists in the Ottoman Empire, not at the scale you'd need.

Third, where are you getting those economic figures from? $578 per capita GDP? A 7-fold increase over IRL? How is this accomplished?

Fourth, Libya is a Spanish colony while Egypt is still British. How do you have any control over those regions?

The Russo-Turkish War wasn't as bad as IRL due to British intervention at the start of the war and the modern arms that were being provided to me by the British since the early 1850's so the war was more of a stalemate. As for the ship issue, I had help from the UK in building my ships in this time line, not Germany. The Ottoman Empire had started its own Industrial revolution so we had a long period of growth with that 3 year period in a recession. I would like to dispute Spain's claim over Libya as it was never theirs to begin with and Egypt never regained its independence in this timeline so the British never gained control of it though I did let them have the Suez Canal. How did Spain obtain Libya?

So my app as the Russian Empire preceded yours. The Russo-Turkish ended worse for you than IRL, with the Treaty of San Stefano being enforced upon you. This is backed up even in the UK app, with the UK only providing significant aid after the Treaty in 1878.

Spain obtained Libya after the French Communard Revolution. All French colonies got new things.

As for Egypt, the UK App preceded yours and they claimed Egypt.

As for the industrial revolution, that doesn't explain a 700% increase in GDP over IRL.
For: Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, American Nationalism, American citizens of Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Northern Mariana Islands, and US Virgin Islands receiving a congressional vote and being allowed to vote for president, military, veterans before refugees, guns, pro choice, LGBT marriage, plural marriage, US Constitution, World Peace, Global Unity.

Against: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Liberalism, Theocracy, Corporatocracy.


By the Blood of our Fathers, By the Blood of our Sons, we fight, we die, we sacrifice for the Good of the Empire.

User avatar
Arvenia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13182
Founded: Aug 21, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Arvenia » Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:26 am

Political Parties of the Federal Empire of Brazil
  • Conservative Party (Partido Conservador/PC) - Right-wing (Conservatism, Social Conservatism, Fiscal Conservatism, Economic Liberalism, Monarchism, Parliamentarism, Political Catholicism, Anti-Populism and Centralization)
  • Liberal Party (Partido Liberal/PL) - Centre to centre-right (Classical Liberalism, Monarchism, Parliamentarism, Secularism and Decentralization)
  • Paulista Republican Party (Partido Republicano Paulista/PRP) - Centre-right (Conservative Liberalism, Republicanism, Decentralization, Regionalism, Agrarianism and Secularism)
  • Minas Republican Party (Partido Republicano Minas/PRM) - Right-wing (Brazilian Nationalism, Conservatism, Republicanism, Decentralization, Regionalism and Agrarianism)
  • Riograndese Republican Party (Partido Republicano Riograndese/PRR) - Centre (Republicanism, Regionalism, Decentralization, Castilhism and Positivism)
  • Catarinense Republican Party (Partido Republicano Catarinense/PRC) - Centre-left (Social Democracy, Labourism, Populism, Republicanism, Decentralization, Regionalism and Secularism)
  • Socialist Workers' Party (Partido Operário Socialista/POS) - Left-wing to far-left (Utopian Socialism, Labourism, Left-Wing Populism, Republicanism, Decentralization, Secularism, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-Elitism and Anti-Monarchism)
  • Brazilian National Party (Partido Nacional Brasileiro/PNB) - Right-wing to far-right (Brazilian Nationalism, Brazilian Irredentism, Economic Nationalism, Political Catholicism, Centralization, National Conservatism, Social Conservatism, Ultranationalism, Monarchism, Right-Wing Populism, Nativism, Protectionism, Anti-Liberalism, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-Socialism, Anti-Secularism, Anti-Parliamentarism, Anti-Republicanism and Anti-Immigration)
Pro: Political Pluralism, Centrism, Liberalism, Liberal Democracy, Social Democracy, Sweden, USA, UN, ROC, Japan, South Korea, Monarchism, Republicanism, Sci-Fi, Animal Rights, Gender Equality, Mecha, Autism, Environmentalism, Secularism, Religion and LGBT Rights
Anti: Racism, Sexism, Nazism, Fascism, EU, Socialism, Adolf Hitler, Neo-Nazism, KKK, Joseph Stalin, PRC, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi-Arabia, Communism, Ultraconservatism, Ultranationalism, Xenophobia, Homophobia, Transphobia, WBC, Satanism, Mormonism, Anarchy, ISIS, al-Qaeda, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, 969 Movement, Political Correctness, Anti-Autistic Sentiment, Far-Right, Far-Left, Cultural Relativism, Anti-Vaxxers, Scalpers and COVID-19

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