New Civilizations [OOC | Always Open]

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Author Application
Name: Ali Farhan
Age: 15 (current)
Height and Weight: 1.6m and 38 kg
Physical Description: Dark brown skin, jet black hair and dark brown eyes
( Optional ) Picture:

Prior Profession: Student
Level of Education - Formal or Informal: He reached secondary school and was about to do his iGCSEs
Physique: Average
Useful Skills: good at making stuff from trash

National Origin: Iraq
What were you doing prior to falling asleep and awakening in the past?: reading a book
Description of Personality: A bit shy, always has ideas, has a short temper
Where in the world are you landing?: Sumer

Autobiography/Biography:

Was born in 2007, just a bit after the invasion of Iraq by the Americans, in Karbala. He loved reading fiction and history, but he spent most of his time making things out of the junk thrown in the streets. His parents were determined to give him a good education, so he went to a primary and secondary school. He was unpopular and a target for bullies until he managed to break a bully’s nose in a fight. After that, he was mostly left alone. He wanted to learn kung-fu but in the end didn’t bother and just stuck with football.

After getting stuck in the past, he joined a reedhouse dwelling community. As refugees fled Ur, he was the one who convinced the people living in the house to accept them as one of their own. In a cruel twist of fate, one of those refugees ended up killing the boy’s old guardian, which resulted in Ali killing the murderer. He proclaimed himself leader of the community, and has great expectations for the future.

Writing Sample: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=516451


What are your intentions for this RP; what do you think your Author will seek to accomplish?:
I want a good rp, with at least a decent village being built before Ali inevitably gets crushed by other authors.
What people or places are you taking inspiration from?: I dunno
Why did you chose to land where you did?: Iraqi history is awesome.
What vibe should we get from your civilization and its culture, if you seek to establish one?:[/] Usually peaceful with occasional massacres
[b]What are your character's motivations?: Anger at the death of his guardian, hope for peace
Theme Song?: No idea
What do you wanna see in this RP? What would make it better?: I need to rp more to find out I guess

Welcome back, IHS. Looking forward to hear more about Ali's journey. J'accept.

Merci beaucoup! And it’s “j’accepte”.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

I’m thinking that when the village becomes big enough to be considered a noticeable town and tax officials start to visit, they are turned away and that starts a small conflict

[G-Tech Corporation]

Merci beaucoup! And it’s “j’accepte”.

Heh, I know - I use j'accept so that I don't lose any confirmed Author applications.

I’m thinking that when the village becomes big enough to be considered a noticeable town and tax officials start to visit, they are turned away and that starts a small conflict

Seems logical. Governments love siphoning prosperity.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Merci beaucoup! And it’s “j’accepte”.

Heh, I know - I use j'accept so that I don't lose any confirmed Author applications.

I’m thinking that when the village becomes big enough to be considered a noticeable town and tax officials start to visit, they are turned away and that starts a small conflict

Seems logical. Governments love siphoning prosperity.

So I’m thinking that it would make this town semi-famous. And if things go well for them (like a good deal), other villages and towns would also try revolting to get the same stuff, if I’m lucky

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Question, if your author dies, can you make a new author to replace him?

[Orostan]

1. I explained building power looms in the past. I also mentioned semi-industrial work conditions elsewhere in my posts.

Ah, you did? That would be a better post to quote, then. As for semi-industrial work conditions - well, that can mean a very wide range of things, given we're talking anywhere from 3000 BCE to the 1800s. I'd appreciate it if you clarified.

2. There is no such thing as territorial integrity except in the most general sense in the Bronze Age. Most fighting has also been done by local soldiers rather than central government soldiers. Almost all towns and cities would have been protected or would not exist any longer. All I said is that China isn’t under existential threat anymore.

Not under existential threat, sure. To me the idea of "rebuilding" goes quite a bit beyond merely no longer existential threat.

3. They are certainly more experienced and I would not have taken so many losses as to require recruiting the young, old, or disabled. That would be insane. In some parts of China that might have happened but in general it would not have needed to occur. Over the war the equipment in some areas has decreased in quality, but in others would have increased. Weapons for example would have needed to be produced at a higher rate and more production would lead to an increase in skill of the producing workers. In general my economy would have been greatly harmed, but even the worst wars usually leave the victor with an experienced and well led army.

You say you wouldn't have taken many losses - but let's walk through that at the ground level. You've posited that most of the fighting is being done by local troops, not the central armies. On the face of it, I'm not seeing much that separates these local troops from the enemies they would be put up against; even the central Chinese soldier is working with a fairly limited budget when it comes to training and armaments, and local troops don't have those luxuries.

So, is there a reason that the casualty ratio for these local troops should significantly outweigh their foes? I'm seeing a China outnumbered by her enemies fighting on multiple fronts without a large military edge, and to me that says significant wartime casualties. If we put two thousand brigands with looted bronze weapons and above-average fitness/experience in a battle against, say, a thousand second-line local Chinese soldiers with comparable equipment, that'll be at best a pyrrhic victory for the Chinese.

I'll agree that wars lead to a victor with an experienced core of soldiers and leaders. I'm just not certain we can broadly say China is yet the victor in this conflict - rather that she has seen localized successes, and localized setbacks.

1. I want productivity to be about the level of the first two or maybe three decades of the 1800s in some sectors of the economy, particularly textiles.

2. Then I think we have agreed. I think bandits should be a local problem at this point and more of a drain on China’s economy than a destroyer of it.

3. China might have gone into fights with its local soldiers armed similarly to their enemies but they would not have fought that way. Chinese armies I have shown again and again relying on formations and organization to win battles. The bandits will probably not know how to make a wall of spears like the Chinese can or have uniform equipment even if it is of equal quality to the Chinese. Most of these guys will have never seen a Chinese army in a battle before the time they are fighting one. I think it is very reasonable to say that better led, organized, and trained local soldiers could win against bandits without taking heavy casualties. One Chinese local soldier might not be worth more on an individual level than a bandit but a hundred of them versus a hundred bandits would result in the bandits losing by a lot. Field battles of the type that the bandits would need to fight would be a very new thing for the bandits.

I am not suggesting that I would take no losses. Large parts of China’s interior are depopulated and this was probably the most devastating war in history anywhere up to that point. China isn’t making such heavy use of forced bandit labor because it hates bandits, it is doing so because it actually needs that labor to replace what it lost during the war and to continue any economic growth.

[Suriyanakhon]

The imperial goose grows more and more intimidating every passing iteration.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The imperial goose grows more and more intimidating every passing iteration.

Asks not for who the goose honks, for lo it honks for thee.

Question, if your author dies, can you make a new author to replace him?

Usually we prefer that that not take place - after all, your Author is you. It would be a bit odd for an identical person to return to a world again.

[Endem]

I'll have my app soonishly. ( read: this week )

[G-Tech Corporation]

1. I want productivity to be about the level of the first two or maybe three decades of the 1800s in some sectors of the economy, particularly textiles.

Well, if Aaron can duplicate the skilled workforce and technologies of the early 1800s in those sectors, than that's fine. You haven't detailed textile technologies though, unless you have a post I haven't seen.

2. Then I think we have agreed. I think bandits should be a local problem at this point and more of a drain on China’s economy than a destroyer of it.

Well, all problems are local problems. Outside of China's heartland those local problems are destroyers, rather than drains, but as the central army's campaigns continue that will fade.

3. China might have gone into fights with its local soldiers armed similarly to their enemies but they would not have fought that way. Chinese armies I have shown again and again relying on formations and organization to win battles. The bandits will probably not know how to make a wall of spears like the Chinese can or have uniform equipment even if it is of equal quality to the Chinese. Most of these guys will have never seen a Chinese army in a battle before the time they are fighting one. I think it is very reasonable to say that better led, organized, and trained local soldiers could win against bandits without taking heavy casualties. One Chinese local soldier might not be worth more on an individual level than a bandit but a hundred of them versus a hundred bandits would result in the bandits losing by a lot. Field battles of the type that the bandits would need to fight would be a very new thing for the bandits.

Hmm, see, this is relying on the assumption that China has trained and organized her local militias along the lines of her current campaign armies - I don't think that stands the razor though. Those local militias will be former tribal armies analogous to their enemies, commanded by integrated local warlords with perhaps a modicum of central training. Except the local militias are missing their most experienced and strongest fighters, because those individuals will have ended up in the central armies, no? A slight edge in organizational structure from a crash course is great, but fighting cohesion, individual physicality, and sheer numbers also count for plenty in antiquity. A hundred Chinese local soldiers might be able to eke out a win against an equal number of their counterparts some of the time, sure. They'll probably lose sometimes too, and once those enemies start outnumbering them (as rural populations which owe China no allegiance will outnumber Chinese urban populations) we're looking engagements as being very dangerous to engage in.

So we see Chinese local armies being able to defend on favorable terms, perhaps, where walls and local support or terrain are able to redress that balance. But Chinese local armies I don't see being capable of taming the countryside, or defending trade routes. Not without bloodletting on scale that is unsustainable.

I am not suggesting that I would take no losses. Large parts of China’s interior are depopulated and this was probably the most devastating war in history anywhere up to that point. China isn’t making such heavy use of forced bandit labor because it hates bandits, it is doing so because it actually needs that labor to replace what it lost during the war and to continue any economic growth.

Sure, sure, but this entire discussion is about what China's manpower is looking like as the conflict is ongoing - and telling me that China's supply of able-bodied men is so depleted that she relies on slave labor to conduct basic tasks isn't exactly a counter example.

[Orostan]

1. I want productivity to be about the level of the first two or maybe three decades of the 1800s in some sectors of the economy, particularly textiles.

Well, if Aaron can duplicate the skilled workforce and technologies of the early 1800s in those sectors, than that's fine. You haven't detailed textile technologies though, unless you have a post I haven't seen.

2. Then I think we have agreed. I think bandits should be a local problem at this point and more of a drain on China’s economy than a destroyer of it.

Well, all problems are local problems. Outside of China's heartland those local problems are destroyers, rather than drains, but as the central army's campaigns continue that will fade.

3. China might have gone into fights with its local soldiers armed similarly to their enemies but they would not have fought that way. Chinese armies I have shown again and again relying on formations and organization to win battles. The bandits will probably not know how to make a wall of spears like the Chinese can or have uniform equipment even if it is of equal quality to the Chinese. Most of these guys will have never seen a Chinese army in a battle before the time they are fighting one. I think it is very reasonable to say that better led, organized, and trained local soldiers could win against bandits without taking heavy casualties. One Chinese local soldier might not be worth more on an individual level than a bandit but a hundred of them versus a hundred bandits would result in the bandits losing by a lot. Field battles of the type that the bandits would need to fight would be a very new thing for the bandits.

Hmm, see, this is relying on the assumption that China has trained and organized her local militias along the lines of her current campaign armies - I don't think that stands the razor though. Those local militias will be former tribal armies analogous to their enemies, commanded by integrated local warlords with perhaps a modicum of central training. Except the local militias are missing their most experienced and strongest fighters, because those individuals will have ended up in the central armies, no? A slight edge in organizational structure from a crash course is great, but fighting cohesion, individual physicality, and sheer numbers also count for plenty in antiquity. A hundred Chinese local soldiers might be able to eke out a win against an equal number of their counterparts some of the time, sure. They'll probably lose sometimes too, and once those enemies start outnumbering them (as rural populations which owe China no allegiance will outnumber Chinese urban populations) we're looking engagements as being very dangerous to engage in.

So we see Chinese local armies being able to defend on favorable terms, perhaps, where walls and local support or terrain are able to redress that balance. But Chinese local armies I don't see being capable of taming the countryside, or defending trade routes. Not without bloodletting on scale that is unsustainable.

I am not suggesting that I would take no losses. Large parts of China’s interior are depopulated and this was probably the most devastating war in history anywhere up to that point. China isn’t making such heavy use of forced bandit labor because it hates bandits, it is doing so because it actually needs that labor to replace what it lost during the war and to continue any economic growth.

Sure, sure, but this entire discussion is about what China's manpower is looking like as the conflict is ongoing - and telling me that China's supply of able-bodied men is so depleted that she relies on slave labor to conduct basic tasks isn't exactly a counter example.

1. I have though, you even asked me to stop talking about power looms at one point until the next timeskip.

2. I think banditry right now should be banditry. The destruction of a settlement more than a few hundred people in size should be very rare now and risky for the bandits.

3. There is no reason why it would not have. These provincial part time soldiers would have been drilled in the same way the central government troops are drilled. There is no reason why they would fight like the bandits do, that’s insane. China is an organized state with an organized military and training methods that revolve around using troops in formations rather than as individual warriors. I don’t say the words “halberd wall” every military post for no reason.

4. No, China’s supply of PEOPLE is low enough that slave labor is incentivized. China would have lost many people, what I’m arguing against is the idea that there would be some demographic devastation like what happened to Russia in WWII.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

The imperial goose grows more and more intimidating every passing iteration.

Asks not for who the goose honks, for lo it honks for thee.

Question, if your author dies, can you make a new author to replace him?

Usually we prefer that that not take place - after all, your Author is you. It would be a bit odd for an identical person to return to a world again.

Not an identical person, but sort of you take control of a friend of your Author or something as if he were your Author

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

The imperial goose grows more and more intimidating every passing iteration. :?

Ultimately it’s the OP’s choice whether or not to make sure that everyone has a viable chance despite a wild disparity in author abilities and starting positions, and well...

History is sometimes wildly unfair, but that doesn’t tend to make the most engaging RPs. :p

[G-Tech Corporation]

The imperial goose grows more and more intimidating every passing iteration.

Ultimately it’s the OP’s choice whether or not to make sure that everyone has a viable chance despite a wild disparity in author abilities and starting positions, and well...

History is sometimes wildly unfair, but that doesn’t tend to make the most engaging RPs.

Truth be told, I'm mainly concerned with just ensuring I give everyone a fair shake - nobody gets away with murder, while others are busy telling a story. Trying to balance starting positions, events, and author ability... eh, ain't gonna really be possible. An Author who drops in Greenland is categorically going to have it much harder than someone who shows up in the Po River Valley, and there's no real way I can change that.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Not an identical person, but sort of you take control of a friend of your Author or something as if he were your Author

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to another person from the past, like an ally of your Author or the like. Saxony already does some posting the perspectives of Alya, her Author's partner. But dropping another character in the past is usually frowned on.

[Biladu Al Rafidayn]

Not an identical person, but sort of you take control of a friend of your Author or something as if he were your Author

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to another person from the past, like an ally of your Author or the like. Saxony already does some posting the perspectives of Alya, her Author's partner. But dropping another character in the past is usually frowned on.

Ok. So say my character has a friend, but my character dies. So I can just switch to the friend who then takes over the country? Also, when’s the IC coming? Sorry for being impatient but I’m excited

IHS here btw

[G-Tech Corporation]

1. I have though, you even asked me to stop talking about power looms at one point until the next timeskip.

Was there a reason you didn't quote the post you introduced them in for me then? That's what I would like to see, to assess Aaron (and thus China's) grasp of textile production.

2. I think banditry right now should be banditry. The destruction of a settlement more than a few hundred people in size should be very rare now and risky for the bandits.

In China's heartland, sure. I think it important to note, though, that the use of the term 'bandit' for the polities around China is one neither I nor Joohan agreed with. Categorically Aaron's enemies are much better organized than simple armed gangs of robbers, coming as they do from fledgling city-states.

3. There is no reason why it would not have. These provincial part time soldiers would have been drilled in the same way the central government troops are drilled. There is no reason why they would fight like the bandits do, that’s insane. China is an organized state with an organized military and training methods that revolve around using troops in formations rather than as individual warriors. I don’t say the words “halberd wall” every military post for no reason.

Yes, you talk about using the halberd wall - when discussing your central armies. I'm not talking about those central armies. I simply don't buy that China's training and military organization, combined with her rapid expansion and Aaron's widely spread attention, have allowed for a standardization of training to a significant level in her part-time soldiers and reservists. We're talking about training, theoretically, hundreds of thousands of men - across twenty years, from the starting point of a single man capable of imparting that training. Nothing you've said so far justifies that level of organization to me.

4. No, China’s supply of PEOPLE is low enough that slave labor is incentivized. China would have lost many people, what I’m arguing against is the idea that there would be some demographic devastation like what happened to Russia in WWII.

China is relying on local militias to oppose armed bands from her enemies, enemies which outweigh her. Take an example:

A large town of a thousand individuals. 12% could be considered of optimal age and fitness for the military, a hundred and twenty men and women. These men and women are called up as the local militia, given cursory training and a few weapons, and told to patrol twenty miles east to the next town. They run into an armed band of two hundred enemy soldiers on the second day of their patrol, and narrowly manage to eke out a victory at the cost of forty of their own dead, and forty wounded - a very good result given the circumstances. Ten of the wounded perish despite medical care.

This is a single engagement in China's conflict. That engagement saw this town in China have their primary population of child-bearing age reduced by 41%.

The threat to the town has lessened, but is not over. The local bureaucrat demands that children down to sixteen and individuals up to thirty enlist in the militia, to secure the trade routes east. This pulls in another hundred soldiers, bringing the militia's numbers up to 140 soldiers again, despite a drop in quality. The amount of weapons the militia has available has also fallen - they are now arming themselves with simple farm implements in many cases, as halberds and spears which broke have yet to be replaced by a central government with bigger priorities.

They patrol east again, without incident until the fall when they stumble upon a looted caravan and a hundred raiders. They engage these raiders and again see victory, largely on account of their superior numbers, but suffer another fifty dead and fifty wounded, of which fifteen perish to infection and blood loss.

Thirty of the dead and wounded are of child-bearing age, and so now we are down by nearly two in every three men or women of military age unable to sustain the next generation.

These are the demographic losses China is facing. Some will be less serious, in central areas where the central armies are able to stabilize the borders quickly. But some will be more serious where battles are lost instead of won, or towns are overrun.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to another person from the past, like an ally of your Author or the like. Saxony already does some posting the perspectives of Alya, her Author's partner. But dropping another character in the past is usually frowned on.

Ok. So say my character has a friend, but my character dies. So I can just switch to the friend who then takes over the country? Also, when’s the IC coming? Sorry for being impatient but I’m excited

IHS here btw

I would have no qualms with that, that would be fine. Assuming the friend is from 3000 BCE, not a new Author dropping in.

I'm actually working on the opening post for the new IC right now, handily enough.

[Islamic Holy Sites]

Ok. So say my character has a friend, but my character dies. So I can just switch to the friend who then takes over the country? Also, when’s the IC coming? Sorry for being impatient but I’m excited

IHS here btw

I would have no qualms with that, that would be fine. Assuming the friend is from 3000 BCE, not a new Author dropping in.

I'm actually working on the opening post for the new IC right now, handily enough.

Right. So the date right now is 3000 BCE?

Ok, great! Can’t wait for it to be opened

[G-Tech Corporation]

I would have no qualms with that, that would be fine. Assuming the friend is from 3000 BCE, not a new Author dropping in.

I'm actually working on the opening post for the new IC right now, handily enough.

Right. So the date right now is 3000 BCE?

Ok, great! Can’t wait for it to be opened

2965 actually, but aye.

[G-Tech Corporation]

And here she be, the IC thread which is live: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=518271

[Islamic Holy Sites]

And here she be, the IC thread which is live: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=518271

ALL HAIL THE IC THREAD!

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Not an identical person, but sort of you take control of a friend of your Author or something as if he were your Author

Hmm. I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to another person from the past, like an ally of your Author or the like. Saxony already does some posting the perspectives of Alya, her Author's partner. But dropping another character in the past is usually frowned on.

I got the idea from Grace’s wife. But yeah I do perspectives from other characters but my key stress is that they’re not always acting in direct accordance with my characters interest. Sometimes they’ve never met Olivia and I’m just offering perspecive into another person’s life in this society. Gotta stir drama and write a more rich world yk?

[Endem]

Author Applicaiton
Name: Aleksander Śliwecki
Age: 34
Height and Weight: 1.83 Meters, 74 Kg
Skin, hair, and eye description: White, Brown, Greyish
( Optional ) Picture: nah

Prior Profession: Literature Professor
Level of education ( specify degrees or note worthy classes ): College Education in Literature and Polish, C1 grade English skills, many times a finalist in various History competitons
Physique description: Fit
Useful skills: no...

National Origin: Polish
What were you doing prior to falling asleep and awakening in the past?: reading Science Fiction books ( finishing Dune to be exact )
Description of personality: I dunno, I'll probably have him get a different personality by the next time skip or two so does it truly matter?
Where in the world are you landing?: Al-Ahsa Oasis

Autobiography/Biography ( paragraph minimum ):
Well, what can you really say about his life, pretty boring, had parents from the upper-middle class so he didn't have to worry about money, got a good education, majored in Polish and then literature, was a fan of sci-fi books, began teaching in the Academy he previously was studying in, overall, nothing really happened in his life, no big defining event, no traumatic experience, he had kind of just, went along, he got himself recently a good pile of new books and was reading through them, when he felt inexplicably sleepy, and then he woke in the desert...

Since then Aleksander went through quite the journey, causing him to be lost in the desert, suffer there a heat stroke, or perhaps a vision from the divine. He had then been adopted into a tribe, which he took over after a tragedy decimated it. With their help he unified the desert nomads of the area and overthrew the Dilmunite civilization and freed its slaves, thus also spreading his religion. Since then he has been leading a strange sort of confederation crossed with theocracy, unified around him. But the sky of the desert sets with red, and winds blow eastwards, war is coming, for not all slavers have yet been driven out of Arabia.
Writing Sample: You've already seen my writing


( Optional on down)
What are your intentions for this RP, what's the long term goal?: Expand the religion.
What people or places are you taking inspiration from?: none
Why did you chose to land where you did?: Sand, lot's of sand ( and hopefully some Bedouin )
What vibe should we get from your civilization and it's culture?: I- I have no idea anymore.
What are your character's motivations?: Heat-stroke cause religious revelation.
Theme Song?: dunno, either some vaguely Arabic song or something from the Dune movie
What do you wanna see in this RP? What would make it better?:

[G-Tech Corporation]

Author Applicaiton
Name: Aleksander Śliwecki
Age: 34
Height and Weight: 1.83 Meters, 74 Kg
Skin, hair, and eye description: White, Brown, Greyish
( Optional ) Picture: nah

Prior Profession: Literature Professor
Level of education ( specify degrees or note worthy classes ): College Education in Literature and Polish, C1 grade English skills, many times a finalist in various History competitons
Physique description: Fit
Useful skills: no...

National Origin: Polish
What were you doing prior to falling asleep and awakening in the past?: reading Science Fiction books ( finishing Dune to be exact )
Description of personality: I dunno, I'll probably have him get a different personality by the next time skip or two so does it truly matter?
Where in the world are you landing?: Al-Ahsa Oasis

Autobiography/Biography ( paragraph minimum ):
Well, what can you really say about his life, pretty boring, had parents from the upper-middle class so he didn't have to worry about money, got a good education, majored in Polish and then literature, was a fan of sci-fi books, began teaching in the Academy he previously was studying in, overall, nothing really happened in his life, no big defining event, no traumatic experience, he had kind of just, went along, he got himself recently a good pile of new books and was reading through them, when he felt inexplicably sleepy, and then he woke in the desert...

Since then Aleksander went through quite the journey, causing him to be lost in the desert, suffer there a heat stroke, or perhaps a vision from the divine. He had then been adopted into a tribe, which he took over after a tragedy decimated it. With their help he unified the desert nomads of the area and overthrew the Dilmunite civilization and freed its slaves, thus also spreading his religion. Since then he has been leading a strange sort of confederation crossed with theocracy, unified around him. But the sky of the desert sets with red, and winds blow eastwards, war is coming, for not all slavers have yet been driven out of Arabia.
Writing Sample: You've already seen my writing


( Optional on down)
What are your intentions for this RP, what's the long term goal?: Expand the religion.
What people or places are you taking inspiration from?: none
Why did you chose to land where you did?: Sand, lot's of sand ( and hopefully some Bedouin )
What vibe should we get from your civilization and it's culture?: I- I have no idea anymore.
What are your character's motivations?: Heat-stroke cause religious revelation.
Theme Song?: dunno, either some vaguely Arabic song or something from the Dune movie
What do you wanna see in this RP? What would make it better?:

I'm looking forward to the Arabs developing their own crazy culture. J'accept.