America the Beautiful: An American Political RP (IC)

[Velahor]

Rogers took on a bit more seriousness than previously. Foreign policy was something that he was particularly touchy about...his lack of foreign policy knowledge combined with his ardent support of veterans meant that he felt both passionate about the topic and inadequate to speak his mind on it.

"I'd like to know more about their plans. I'll admit...I'm far from an expert on foreign policy. My entire career has been devoted pretty much exclusively to domestic issues. But since I care a lot about our vets, I want to know that this administration is going to only fight wars that are truly necessary. War is hell for these guys, and I don't want to put more Americans through hell than absolutely necessary to protect our national interests."

"Wars are ugly things, that much I'll grant you. And our ability to see the job through in Afghanistan was blunted by the Burke Administration diverting its attention to Iraq only two years in..." She stroked her chin, frowning some more, "I'm worried about the radio silence on Afghanistan. That and the fact Ollie Miller's put up a pretty broad refugee bill seemingly with Republican support makes me wonder whether they're planning on sticking with Wolf's timeline."

Rogers, again, a bit embarrassed to talk foreign policy with someone so much more studied on the topic than himself, expressed his feelings on Afghanistan.

"Well...like I said...I don't know a lot about Afghanistan...but I'll share what I think."

"I want us out of Afghanistan. I have for awhile. The Taliban always seems to be one step ahead there, we already killed Bin Laden, and a lot of my buddies who fought over there back home say that the terrain in Afghanistan makes it very hard to really fight to win. An old high school classmate of mine who fought over there said, in what I admit was a strange and a bit drunken comparison, that the Taliban knows their way around Afghanistan as well as us boys back in my hometown knew the hills and mountains in southwest Montana. I think he was making that comparison because of the pictures he sent me of the mountains there...looks a lot like where I grew up in a way. Anyways, they walk, hike, hunt, live on that land...it makes it a lot harder to find and fight them. Evil as they may be, I suppose that comparison made a lot of sense to me. I don't see a way to stay over there and beat them if it's really like that. We did what we could of our mission over there...there's not a whole lot more ground we could gain and keep ahold of."

"On the other hand...I see two problems with just pulling outta there. First, we gotta also help the people who helped us. Second, America always seems to leave a power vacuum when it pulls out of a country, and the bad guys do a lot of damage. We gotta find a way around that, with a combination of good diplomacy with the surrounding countries...and probably with tapering down the troop presence rather than getting out suddenly. We've sure f*cked things up when we did a sudden withdrawal in the past...my dad fought in Vietnam and was always p*ssed about how that turned out."

"Excuse my language, Representative Simone."

Rogers took a breath, clearly a bit nervous about having spilled his feelings on the topic. With a bit of frustration at not really knowing the solution to the Afghanistan problem, he asked Simone if he was on the right track.

"Am I making sense? Or am I just completely off base? My schooling was in Agribusiness and then Law, specifically employment law, so I still have a lot to learn about foreign policy."

[New Cobastheia]

"Well make sure to study up this weekend, I'm meeting with both of them this weekend and I'm going to call a Caucus meeting for Wednesday for us all to discuss who we think will give us the best chance."

"I'll do that. I admit...the Republican options seem particularly weak in my opinion. I was thinking about giving Gauthier a phone call to check our compatibility, but I might hold off on that until we finish that meeting so we can come at this with a coordinated strategy."

Hertzog let out a slight smile, "What makes you think they're a weak bunch of candidates?"

[Gordano and Lysandus]

Hertzog hummed along, "Who isn't? Now if only impeaching judges was politically acceptable." He joked.

"I wish. We'd have SCOTUS back if we could kick the bastards out," He huffed, taking a sip of his bourbon, "We've just got to take a firm line on this. It's ugly what they've done to the courts, ugly. Don't even give them a hearing or a vote unless it's someone who meets our criteria."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

Rogers, again, a bit embarrassed to talk foreign policy with someone so much more studied on the topic than himself, expressed his feelings on Afghanistan.

"Well...like I said...I don't know a lot about Afghanistan...but I'll share what I think."

"I want us out of Afghanistan. I have for awhile. The Taliban always seems to be one step ahead there, we already killed Bin Laden, and a lot of my buddies who fought over there back home say that the terrain in Afghanistan makes it very hard to really fight to win. An old high school classmate of mine who fought over there said, in what I admit was a strange and a bit drunken comparison, that the Taliban knows their way around Afghanistan as well as us boys back in my hometown knew the hills and mountains in southwest Montana. I think he was making that comparison because of the pictures he sent me of the mountains there...looks a lot like where I grew up in a way. Anyways, they walk, hike, hunt, live on that land...it makes it a lot harder to find and fight them. Evil as they may be, I suppose that comparison made a lot of sense to me. I don't see a way to stay over there and beat them if it's really like that. We did what we could of our mission over there...there's not a whole lot more ground we could gain and keep ahold of."

"On the other hand...I see two problems with just pulling outta there. First, we gotta also help the people who helped us. Second, America always seems to leave a power vacuum when it pulls out of a country, and the bad guys do a lot of damage. We gotta find a way around that, with a combination of good diplomacy with the surrounding countries...and probably with tapering down the troop presence rather than getting out suddenly. We've sure f*cked things up when we did a sudden withdrawal in the past...my dad fought in Vietnam and was always p*ssed about how that turned out."

"Excuse my language, Representative Simone."

Rogers took a breath, clearly a bit nervous about having spilled his feelings on the topic. With a bit of frustration at not really knowing the solution to the Afghanistan problem, he asked Simone if he was on the right track.

"Am I making sense? Or am I just completely off base? My schooling was in Agribusiness and then Law, specifically employment law, so I still have a lot to learn about foreign policy."

"I understand your feelings, and you're still relatively new to the Senate, you've hardly built up a lifetime's experience with this particular field. No one would expect you to know as much about it as you do law," She smiled a little.

"I'm sympathetic to those who want to get out of Afghanistan. It's just a case of what price we have to pay for that. Peace has a price as much as war, and right now, the price is bad. We've made some bad policy decisions that have made Afghanistan less stable and less self-sufficient. Training the Afghan Army is a generational task, and I think the enormity of that daunts people. To a certain extent deliberately, policymakers have made Afghanistan dependent on us, whilst simultaneously decrying that dependence. It's messy. What I will say is that Afghans have been fighting for their freedom now for almost half a century, whether it's from the Soviets or from the Taliban, and if we were to abandon them now, it would throw that sacrifice down the drain."

Humming, she smiles a little, going to move towards a more positive note. "There are children, young adults, being born today who have never had to know the horror of growing up under the Taliban, or under the Soviets. A new generation that could take Afghanistan past an era of war. There is hope, as literacy improves and education shores up, it'll make training times shorter for their army. A pathway out does exist."

And then the kicker, "But if we do what Wolf signed us up for, and yank everything out right here, right now? Every American stripped out? And I'm talking about the private contractors here as much as I'm talking about armed services. The Afghan Air Force won't be able to fly. Their Special Forces will be blind. Their intelligence network would collapse. We would be ripping the spine out of Afghanistan, and practically handing the country to the Taliban on a platter."

"The commitment there is a lot smaller than you, or many Americans think it is. We have far fewer soldiers in Afghanistan, or for that matter, Iraq, than we do in South Korea or Germany. The Taliban know that if they try to seize power whilst that token force is there, we'll descend back on them with the fury of God and they'll lose their seat at the table. But if that deterrent isn't there? That removes our piece from the board. We're no longer a factor and they'll assume - correctly - that they could launch a fresh, full-force offensive with no retaliaton. An offensive against an army that we've just essentially castrated. Am I making sense?"

[Velahor]

"I'll do that. I admit...the Republican options seem particularly weak in my opinion. I was thinking about giving Gauthier a phone call to check our compatibility, but I might hold off on that until we finish that meeting so we can come at this with a coordinated strategy."

Hertzog let out a slight smile, "What makes you think they're a weak bunch of candidates?"

"I've watched Gundersen closely and done a bit of research...because being completely honest here...I think I could convince any of these Republicans to vote yes on MARKET if they unfortunately ended up in the seat. Our candidate needs to grill him hard on the impending budget deficit in Waukesha if he's nominated, as well as the fact that most of the policies he runs around saying he achieved are pretty symbolic. A train line funded in large part by a neighboring Democratic city, and putting those little sensors a car insurance company wants you to put in your car into all the city vehicles are not the big policy victories he says they are."

"Kurian is a gaffe waiting to happen. She ran that absolutely bizarre advertisement...and she's so radical that she might not even actually be making a mistake when she says the things she says. Our candidate could scare the suburbs away from Kurian really easily."

"That Duncan guy is too young and anybody is going to outshine him in experience. When I was elected to the Senate, I was just a bit older than he was...but I had years of experience in employment law and state house experience and campaign management experience to fall back on. Duncan went from Ivy League to the White House to TV...the working class can't relate to that at all. I know it's sorta the Wolf pathway...but I just don't see how that will work out for him in Wisconsin. He hasn't been in the real world, nor has he ever actually won any office if I recall."

"I'm sure not an expert on that state in any way. But I think these Republicans are all weak and exploitable."

[New Cobastheia]

Matilda had actually been the one to open the door and while she was fine letting the two greet each other she would rather move the conversation inside if the two were going to start actually talking to each other. Speaking up, "Yes, Senator Hertzog is here, feel free to follow me."

She'd led them both into the living room, at which point they'd notice Senator Hertzog getting up from the couch to greet them both while offering a firm handshake, "Representative Boyd, Attorney General Gauthier, it's nice to have you both here... I see you've met my better half."

Before Natasha could answer Everson, the door had opened and Matilda had brought them in to meet Senator Hertzog. “Yes, it’s wonderful to meet you both, thank you for the invitation.”

"Oh it's not a problem at all," Matilda interjected as she joined in on the handshaking.

"Besides, if we're gonna keep the Senate I might as well meet with the both of you now." Benjamin commented in a cheerful tone.

"Indeed we have, Senator," he paused for a second, ruffling through his bag. "In fact, I would like to give you both this." He pulled out a shiny, ornamental globe with all sorts of flowing colours that quietly glowed in all sorts of hues, from purple to red to green, spinning ever so gently and deliberately.

The Senator took a good look at the ornament, finding it rather beautiful before Matilda once again interjected, "Oh you shouldn't have... Can I get either of you anything to drink, I'll warn you now there isn't much though."

[Velahor]

Rogers, again, a bit embarrassed to talk foreign policy with someone so much more studied on the topic than himself, expressed his feelings on Afghanistan.

"Well...like I said...I don't know a lot about Afghanistan...but I'll share what I think."

"I want us out of Afghanistan. I have for awhile. The Taliban always seems to be one step ahead there, we already killed Bin Laden, and a lot of my buddies who fought over there back home say that the terrain in Afghanistan makes it very hard to really fight to win. An old high school classmate of mine who fought over there said, in what I admit was a strange and a bit drunken comparison, that the Taliban knows their way around Afghanistan as well as us boys back in my hometown knew the hills and mountains in southwest Montana. I think he was making that comparison because of the pictures he sent me of the mountains there...looks a lot like where I grew up in a way. Anyways, they walk, hike, hunt, live on that land...it makes it a lot harder to find and fight them. Evil as they may be, I suppose that comparison made a lot of sense to me. I don't see a way to stay over there and beat them if it's really like that. We did what we could of our mission over there...there's not a whole lot more ground we could gain and keep ahold of."

"On the other hand...I see two problems with just pulling outta there. First, we gotta also help the people who helped us. Second, America always seems to leave a power vacuum when it pulls out of a country, and the bad guys do a lot of damage. We gotta find a way around that, with a combination of good diplomacy with the surrounding countries...and probably with tapering down the troop presence rather than getting out suddenly. We've sure f*cked things up when we did a sudden withdrawal in the past...my dad fought in Vietnam and was always p*ssed about how that turned out."

"Excuse my language, Representative Simone."

Rogers took a breath, clearly a bit nervous about having spilled his feelings on the topic. With a bit of frustration at not really knowing the solution to the Afghanistan problem, he asked Simone if he was on the right track.

"Am I making sense? Or am I just completely off base? My schooling was in Agribusiness and then Law, specifically employment law, so I still have a lot to learn about foreign policy."

"I understand your feelings, and you're still relatively new to the Senate, you've hardly built up a lifetime's experience with this particular field. No one would expect you to know as much about it as you do law," She smiled a little.

"I'm sympathetic to those who want to get out of Afghanistan. It's just a case of what price we have to pay for that. Peace has a price as much as war, and right now, the price is bad. We've made some bad policy decisions that have made Afghanistan less stable and less self-sufficient. Training the Afghan Army is a generational task, and I think the enormity of that daunts people. To a certain extent deliberately, policymakers have made Afghanistan dependent on us, whilst simultaneously decrying that dependence. It's messy. What I will say is that Afghans have been fighting for their freedom now for almost half a century, whether it's from the Soviets or from the Taliban, and if we were to abandon them now, it would throw that sacrifice down the drain."

Humming, she smiles a little, going to move towards a more positive note. "There are children, young adults, being born today who have never had to know the horror of growing up under the Taliban, or under the Soviets. A new generation that could take Afghanistan past an era of war. There is hope, as literacy improves and education shores up, it'll make training times shorter for their army. A pathway out does exist."

And then the kicker, "But if we do what Wolf signed us up for, and yank everything out right here, right now? Every American stripped out? And I'm talking about the private contractors here as much as I'm talking about armed services. The Afghan Air Force won't be able to fly. Their Special Forces will be blind. Their intelligence network would collapse. We would be ripping the spine out of Afghanistan, and practically handing the country to the Taliban on a platter."

"The commitment there is a lot smaller than you, or many Americans think it is. We have far fewer soldiers in Afghanistan, or for that matter, Iraq, than we do in South Korea or Germany. The Taliban know that if they try to seize power whilst that token force is there, we'll descend back on them with the fury of God and they'll lose their seat at the table. But if that deterrent isn't there? That removes our piece from the board. We're no longer a factor and they'll assume - correctly - that they could launch a fresh, full-force offensive with no retaliaton. An offensive against an army that we've just essentially castrated. Am I making sense?"

"Yeah, you are making sense. I'm pretty sure I agree with your perspective...but I do have some questions."

Rogers' tone naturally took on a little more curiosity; he loved to learn, and right now, he was learning from one of the best.

"So being realistic then...what's the timeline for when we could finally pull the last few guys out of there? I agree that we oughta keep some force there as a deterrent. I'm also wondering if we could shift the ratio from troops to private contractors over there more toward the latter to keep stability while in effect ending the 'war mission'."

"Hmmm...and you're right about that about Korea and Germany...I'm also curious...do we need so many guys in Germany? I get the reasons for South Korea, because of the North and China and Russia...but I thought we were pretty good with everyone in Europe for the most part."

[Yaruqo]

The Senator took a good look at the ornament, finding it rather beautiful before Matilda once again interjected, "Oh you shouldn't have... Can I get either of you anything to drink, I'll warn you now there isn't much though."

"Oh, just water would be fine, for now, thank you, Matilda." Natasha smiled, trying not to cross her arms after the Senator had received Boyd's gift - with her hands conspicuously gift-less. "How do you find Milwaukee, Senator?"

[The Sarangtus Lands]

Before Natasha could answer Everson, the door had opened and Matilda had brought them in to meet Senator Hertzog. “Yes, it’s wonderful to meet you both, thank you for the invitation.”

"Oh it's not a problem at all," Matilda interjected as she joined in on the handshaking.

"Besides, if we're gonna keep the Senate I might as well meet with the both of you now." Benjamin commented in a cheerful tone.

"Indeed we have, Senator," he paused for a second, ruffling through his bag. "In fact, I would like to give you both this." He pulled out a shiny, ornamental globe with all sorts of flowing colours that quietly glowed in all sorts of hues, from purple to red to green, spinning ever so gently and deliberately.

The Senator took a good look at the ornament, finding it rather beautiful before Matilda once again interjected, "Oh you shouldn't have... Can I get either of you anything to drink, I'll warn you now there isn't much though."

Boyd smiled at both of them, and replied "I'll just have water too, thank you."

[New Cobastheia]

Hertzog hummed along, "Who isn't? Now if only impeaching judges was politically acceptable." He joked.

"I wish. We'd have SCOTUS back if we could kick the bastards out," He huffed, taking a sip of his bourbon, "We've just got to take a firm line on this. It's ugly what they've done to the courts, ugly. Don't even give them a hearing or a vote unless it's someone who meets our criteria."

"Wouldn't that be fun, and that's something I can definitely do. Like you said, after what they've done to the courts I'd be perfectly happy to make sure they can't do any more damage for as long as we're in the majority."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

"Yeah, you are making sense. I'm pretty sure I agree with your perspective...but I do have some questions."

Rogers' tone naturally took on a little more curiosity; he loved to learn, and right now, he was learning from one of the best.

"So being realistic then...what's the timeline for when we could finally pull the last few guys out of there? I agree that we oughta keep some force there as a deterrent. I'm also wondering if we could shift the ratio from troops to private contractors over there more toward the latter to keep stability while in effect ending the 'war mission'."

"Hmmm...and you're right about that about Korea and Germany...I'm also curious...do we need so many guys in Germany? I get the reasons for South Korea, because of the North and China and Russia...but I thought we were pretty good with everyone in Europe for the most part."

"This is reminding me of when I gave a talk back at the Foreign Policy Institute back in 2019," She smiled, remembering her more academic days fondly, "I worked there when it was founded, before I joined the State Department. Anyway, let me grasp your questions."

"There's already a pretty sizeable number of private contractors in Afghanistan, it's a general rule of thumb to double the number of troops there is somewhere and that'll tell you how many people are really there if you count contractors, which most don't. In terms of a timeline for getting everyone out? I mean, ostensibly never if you count the Marine guards at the embassy, but practically speaking? Another 15, 20 years? If you're talking about totally ending our mission there, but viewing the present mission in the same context as 2001 isn't right. This isn't about having to sweep through the country with overwhelming force again, this is mostly training and support. A small surge may be necessary in the short term, but in the long term, it'll sort of fizzle out. We'll keep doing what we've been doing there and in Iraq, which is slowly dripping people out as they're no longer needed. We can certainly lean more on private contractors if we want to accelerate that timetable but for stuff like supporting their Special Forces, that's something troops have to do."

"If we want to speed up that timetable though, we need to apply more pressure on the Afghan government to curtail corruption, we need to relax the technological demands of the Afghan Army, support their education system, and look at seeing if we can increase the share of the burden held by allied forces. The coalition in Afghanistan is large, but it's designed to be highly dependent on our infrastructure. So we need to support allied infrastructure and allow that to take some of the burden so we can reduce our investment."

"As for Germany, that's to stop Russia stampeding its way across all of Eastern Europe and re-establishing the Warsaw Pact. I know it sounds fanciful but that's pretty overtly the long-term goal of the Putin regime - establishing a strong sphere of influence and preventing liberal democracies from getting too close with their alliances. By putting troops in Europe, we affirm to Russia that the US will respond if they attack a NATO ally in the region."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

"Wouldn't that be fun, and that's something I can definitely do. Like you said, after what they've done to the courts I'd be perfectly happy to make sure they can't do any more damage for as long as we're in the majority."

"Which brings us to winning Wisconsin. You know I'll drag my old bones all the way around there if I have to, Ben, I won't see the majority go down without a fight," He took a handkerchief out of his pocket, coughing into it roughly.

"Don't let Richardson take credit for what we've achieved."

[Velahor]

"Yeah, you are making sense. I'm pretty sure I agree with your perspective...but I do have some questions."

Rogers' tone naturally took on a little more curiosity; he loved to learn, and right now, he was learning from one of the best.

"So being realistic then...what's the timeline for when we could finally pull the last few guys out of there? I agree that we oughta keep some force there as a deterrent. I'm also wondering if we could shift the ratio from troops to private contractors over there more toward the latter to keep stability while in effect ending the 'war mission'."

"Hmmm...and you're right about that about Korea and Germany...I'm also curious...do we need so many guys in Germany? I get the reasons for South Korea, because of the North and China and Russia...but I thought we were pretty good with everyone in Europe for the most part."

"This is reminding me of when I gave a talk back at the Foreign Policy Institute back in 2019," She smiled, remembering her more academic days fondly, "I worked there when it was founded, before I joined the State Department. Anyway, let me grasp your questions."

"There's already a pretty sizeable number of private contractors in Afghanistan, it's a general rule of thumb to double the number of troops there is somewhere and that'll tell you how many people are really there if you count contractors, which most don't. In terms of a timeline for getting everyone out? I mean, ostensibly never if you count the Marine guards at the embassy, but practically speaking? Another 15, 20 years? If you're talking about totally ending our mission there, but viewing the present mission in the same context as 2001 isn't right. This isn't about having to sweep through the country with overwhelming force again, this is mostly training and support. A small surge may be necessary in the short term, but in the long term, it'll sort of fizzle out. We'll keep doing what we've been doing there and in Iraq, which is slowly dripping people out as they're no longer needed. We can certainly lean more on private contractors if we want to accelerate that timetable but for stuff like supporting their Special Forces, that's something troops have to do."

"If we want to speed up that timetable though, we need to apply more pressure on the Afghan government to curtail corruption, we need to relax the technological demands of the Afghan Army, support their education system, and look at seeing if we can increase the share of the burden held by allied forces. The coalition in Afghanistan is large, but it's designed to be highly dependent on our infrastructure. So we need to support allied infrastructure and allow that to take some of the burden so we can reduce our investment."

"As for Germany, that's to stop Russia stampeding its way across all of Eastern Europe and re-establishing the Warsaw Pact. I know it sounds fanciful but that's pretty overtly the long-term goal of the Putin regime - establishing a strong sphere of influence and preventing liberal democracies from getting too close with their alliances. By putting troops in Europe, we affirm to Russia that the US will respond if they attack a NATO ally in the region."

"Well...I can see all that. I just don't like the idea of having troops there forever. There's a difference between finishing and completing a long-term mission, hell, that mission might still not be over for decades from now...but there's a difference between that and keeping a permanent military force on the ground a world away from us. I like what you're saying, but I definitely lean toward a policy of utilizing private contractors and ramping up training and support military staff rather than combat troops...so we can make that 15, 20 years you mentioned more like 5-10 years."

"I'm gonna disagree on the Germany and Russia thing...at least with my limited knowledge...I'm pretty sure that some of the strongest industrial nations in the world throughout central and eastern Europe should be able to fund their own militaries. If they seriously can't handle it, we can bail them out like we did in WWI and WWII, but I think I remember reading that there are more American troops in Germany than German troops worldwide. That sounds like somebody in the alliance isn't holding up their end of the bargain. I don't think NATO was intended just for the US to rush to the defense of every European nation that refuses to fund a fully-capable standing military."

"I could be wrong...I mean...I'd probably have to see more numbers and stuff to really form a strong opinion on it...but I am listening to what you're telling me, and a lot of it makes sense. You're giving me the realistic view on the scenario...I'm just kinda telling you my thoughts of what I think is ideal."

[New Cobastheia]

Hertzog let out a slight smile, "What makes you think they're a weak bunch of candidates?"

"I've watched Gundersen closely and done a bit of research...because being completely honest here...I think I could convince any of these Republicans to vote yes on MARKET if they unfortunately ended up in the seat. Our candidate needs to grill him hard on the impending budget deficit in Waukesha if he's nominated, as well as the fact that most of the policies he runs around saying he achieved are pretty symbolic. A train line funded in large part by a neighboring Democratic city, and putting those little sensors a car insurance company wants you to put in your car into all the city vehicles are not the big policy victories he says they are."

"Kurian is a gaffe waiting to happen. She ran that absolutely bizarre advertisement...and she's so radical that she might not even actually be making a mistake when she says the things she says. Our candidate could scare the suburbs away from Kurian really easily."

"That Duncan guy is too young and anybody is going to outshine him in experience. When I was elected to the Senate, I was just a bit older than he was...but I had years of experience in employment law and state house experience and campaign management experience to fall back on. Duncan went from Ivy League to the White House to TV...the working class can't relate to that at all. I know it's sorta the Wolf pathway...but I just don't see how that will work out for him in Wisconsin. He hasn't been in the real world, nor has he ever actually won any office if I recall."

"I'm sure not an expert on that state in any way. But I think these Republicans are all weak and exploitable."

"I like what you're saying. Feel free to develop those theories some more, figuring out who'd be our easiest competition is something I'm going to want to be covered during the meeting. I'm not sure of the numbers on hand right now, but if we have enough funds and the number look close enough we could try and influence their primary in our favor."

[Velahor]

"I've watched Gundersen closely and done a bit of research...because being completely honest here...I think I could convince any of these Republicans to vote yes on MARKET if they unfortunately ended up in the seat. Our candidate needs to grill him hard on the impending budget deficit in Waukesha if he's nominated, as well as the fact that most of the policies he runs around saying he achieved are pretty symbolic. A train line funded in large part by a neighboring Democratic city, and putting those little sensors a car insurance company wants you to put in your car into all the city vehicles are not the big policy victories he says they are."

"Kurian is a gaffe waiting to happen. She ran that absolutely bizarre advertisement...and she's so radical that she might not even actually be making a mistake when she says the things she says. Our candidate could scare the suburbs away from Kurian really easily."

"That Duncan guy is too young and anybody is going to outshine him in experience. When I was elected to the Senate, I was just a bit older than he was...but I had years of experience in employment law and state house experience and campaign management experience to fall back on. Duncan went from Ivy League to the White House to TV...the working class can't relate to that at all. I know it's sorta the Wolf pathway...but I just don't see how that will work out for him in Wisconsin. He hasn't been in the real world, nor has he ever actually won any office if I recall."

"I'm sure not an expert on that state in any way. But I think these Republicans are all weak and exploitable."

"I like what you're saying. Feel free to develop those theories some more, figuring out who'd be our easiest competition is something I'm going to want to be covered during the meeting. I'm not sure of the numbers on hand right now, but if we have enough funds and the number look close enough we could try and influence their primary in our favor."

"I'll think about it some more...maybe I'll write up a list of pros and cons of each Republican as an opponent. I ran a couple campaigns over the years, I've got a pretty good idea on strategy. Our party has a really good opportunity against these candidates, and I'd like if our candidates could eventually hear my ideas for how to take on each of them."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

"Well...I can see all that. I just don't like the idea of having troops there forever. There's a difference between finishing and completing a long-term mission, hell, that mission might still not be over for decades from now...but there's a difference between that and keeping a permanent military force on the ground a world away from us. I like what you're saying, but I definitely lean toward a policy of utilizing private contractors and ramping up training and support military staff rather than combat troops...so we can make that 15, 20 years you mentioned more like 5-10 years."

"I'm gonna disagree on the Germany and Russia thing...at least with my limited knowledge...I'm pretty sure that some of the strongest industrial nations in the world throughout central and eastern should be able to fund their own militaries. If they seriously can't handle it, we can bail them out like we did in WWI and WWII, but I think I remember reading that there are more American troops in Germany than German troops worldwide. That sounds like somebody in the alliance isn't holding up their end of the bargain. I don't think NATO was intended just for the US to rush to the defense of every European nation that refuses to fund a fully-capable standing military."

"I could be wrong...I mean...I'd probably have to see more numbers and stuff to really form a strong opinion on it...but I am listening to what you're telling me, and a lot of it makes sense. You're giving me the realistic view on the scenario...I'm just kinda telling you my thoughts of what I think is ideal."

"Again, I appreciate your views. Idealisms are important, it's good to have a vision with foreign policy. Now, I have to tell you the downside. The Bundeswehr is in shambles. Not too long ago, their Defense Minister couldn't roll out their new combat boots, nevermind get ready for full-scale war with a great power actor. And how does Europe reward her? They make her President of the European Commission. The vast majority of NATO states do underspend on defense, and that's something we need to deal with, but also the command and logistics infrastructure of the alliance is built around an American core. Our presence is somewhat essential to that collective security guarantee, and that collective security serves us as much as it serves them. It gives us power to pressure allied governments in line with our interests, and it contains Russia, who will get more powerful if something isn't standing in their way."

"We also don't want to risk the Europeans turning inwards and trying to do things themselves too much - because that means that Europe will see an ample opportunity to break from us diplomatically, and we're having enough trouble with that as it is, with Nord Stream 2 and the like. Maintaining a unified front for Western liberal democracy gives us strength on the diplomatic stage that we wouldn't have alone. Imagine if we'd had to invade Afghanistan in 2001 alone, without the coalition. Or if we had to face the Kosovo question alone. Would we have stepped in to stop ethnic cleansing if it was just American troops doing the lifting? Working within an international alliance isn't perfect, but isolationism is less perfect."

[New Cobastheia]

The Senator took a good look at the ornament, finding it rather beautiful before Matilda once again interjected, "Oh you shouldn't have... Can I get either of you anything to drink, I'll warn you now there isn't much though."

"Oh, just water would be fine, for now, thank you, Matilda." Natasha smiled, trying not to cross her arms after the Senator had received Boyd's gift - with her hands conspicuously gift-less. "How do you find Milwaukee, Senator?"

Boyd smiled at both of them, and replied "I'll just have water too, thank you."

Matilda headed to the kitchen to go and grab a few glasses of water and Hertzog carefully put the gift down on the table, "Well, it'd like it a lot more if it wasn't the middle of winter, but hey, I think we're all used to a little bit of snow."

"Please, let's sit," Hertzog said as he gestured towards the couches. Taking his spot on the one he had been sitting one when the two candidates walked in he fully expected the two of them to share the couch opposite his own. As Matilda walked back into the room with the waters he'd start back up again, "So, obviously we're all here to talk about the race, so first things first, I'm assuming we all want to win this race with everything we got, so regardless of who comes out on top I want to know you're both prepared to endorse and campaign for each other after the primary."

[The Sarangtus Lands]

"Oh, just water would be fine, for now, thank you, Matilda." Natasha smiled, trying not to cross her arms after the Senator had received Boyd's gift - with her hands conspicuously gift-less. "How do you find Milwaukee, Senator?"

Boyd smiled at both of them, and replied "I'll just have water too, thank you."

Matilda headed to the kitchen to go and grab a few glasses of water and Hertzog carefully put the gift down on the table, "Well, it'd like it a lot more if it wasn't the middle of winter, but hey, I think we're all used to a little bit of snow."

"Please, let's sit," Hertzog said as he gestured towards the couches. Taking his spot on the one he had been sitting one when the two candidates walked in he fully expected the two of them to share the couch opposite his own. As Matilda walked back into the room with the waters he'd start back up again, "So, obviously we're all here to talk about the race, so first things first, I'm assuming we all want to win this race with everything we got, so regardless of who comes out on top I want to know you're both prepared to endorse and campaign for each other after the primary."

"Absolutely." Boyd said without hesitation. "I will stand behind her 100% if she wins."

[Velahor]

"Well...I can see all that. I just don't like the idea of having troops there forever. There's a difference between finishing and completing a long-term mission, hell, that mission might still not be over for decades from now...but there's a difference between that and keeping a permanent military force on the ground a world away from us. I like what you're saying, but I definitely lean toward a policy of utilizing private contractors and ramping up training and support military staff rather than combat troops...so we can make that 15, 20 years you mentioned more like 5-10 years."

"I'm gonna disagree on the Germany and Russia thing...at least with my limited knowledge...I'm pretty sure that some of the strongest industrial nations in the world throughout central and eastern should be able to fund their own militaries. If they seriously can't handle it, we can bail them out like we did in WWI and WWII, but I think I remember reading that there are more American troops in Germany than German troops worldwide. That sounds like somebody in the alliance isn't holding up their end of the bargain. I don't think NATO was intended just for the US to rush to the defense of every European nation that refuses to fund a fully-capable standing military."

"I could be wrong...I mean...I'd probably have to see more numbers and stuff to really form a strong opinion on it...but I am listening to what you're telling me, and a lot of it makes sense. You're giving me the realistic view on the scenario...I'm just kinda telling you my thoughts of what I think is ideal."

"Again, I appreciate your views. Idealisms are important, it's good to have a vision with foreign policy. Now, I have to tell you the downside. The Bundeswehr is in shambles. Not too long ago, their Defense Minister couldn't roll out their new combat boots, nevermind get ready for full-scale war with a great power actor. And how does Europe reward her? They make her President of the European Commission. The vast majority of NATO states do underspend on defense, and that's something we need to deal with, but also the command and logistics infrastructure of the alliance is built around an American core. Our presence is somewhat essential to that collective security guarantee, and that collective security serves us as much as it serves them. It gives us power to pressure allied governments in line with our interests, and it contains Russia, who will get more powerful if something isn't standing in their way."

"We also don't want to risk the Europeans turning inwards and trying to do things themselves too much - because that means that Europe will see an ample opportunity to break from us diplomatically, and we're having enough trouble with that as it is, with Nord Stream 2 and the like. Maintaining a unified front for Western liberal democracy gives us strength on the diplomatic stage that we wouldn't have alone. Imagine if we'd had to invade Afghanistan in 2001 alone, without the coalition. Or if we had to face the Kosovo question alone. Would we have stepped in to stop ethnic cleansing if it was just American troops doing the lifting? Working within an international alliance isn't perfect, but isolationism is less perfect."

Rogers was a bit flustered. Bundeswehr? Nord Stream 2?...Google would be getting a workout on his phone after this.

Nonetheless, he kept his composure to ask more.

"Oh...I'm definitely not an isolationist. But man...it just seems to me like our troops do most of the work for anything NATO-related, and everyone else reaps the benefits. These troops are real live people...not some abstract concept...but real people who could be killed...it's just something we need to be a little more sensitive to. I definitely see the value in keeping our troops in Germany...but not at the levels they are at. If us being in Germany is chiefly a NATO mission, every NATO country should be contributing their share to the effort. If NATO is so American-dependent...then we probably need to renegotiate the terms of the agreement, right?"

[New Cobastheia]

"Wouldn't that be fun, and that's something I can definitely do. Like you said, after what they've done to the courts I'd be perfectly happy to make sure they can't do any more damage for as long as we're in the majority."

"Which brings us to winning Wisconsin. You know I'll drag my old bones all the way around there if I have to, Ben, I won't see the majority go down without a fight," He took a handkerchief out of his pocket, coughing into it roughly.

"Don't let Richardson take credit for what we've achieved."

"Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, and I was expected you'd drive up from Chicago at some point. Once the ARA passes I'm planning to tweet out some messaging. The bill is a nice enough start, in large part thanks to us, but it's only the beginning and we're going to do everything in our power to make sure our priorities on healthcare, infrastructure, and the minimum wage get through, meanwhile, if the GOP gets the majority you can kiss things like a livable wage, roads without potholes, good insurance policies, and anything that'd bring the rust belt back to life goodbye."

"Probably thank Rogers and Vichter too for getting a few things in there before the bill got put on the docket."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

Rogers was a bit flustered. Bundeswehr? Nord Stream 2?...Google would be getting a workout on his phone after this.

Nonetheless, he kept his composure to ask more.

"Oh...I'm definitely not an isolationist. But man...it just seems to me like our troops do most of the work for anything NATO-related, and everyone else reaps the benefits. These troops are real live people...not some abstract concept...but real people who could be killed...it's just something we need to be a little more sensitive to. I definitely see the value in keeping our troops in Germany...but not at the levels they are at. If us being in Germany is chiefly a NATO mission, every NATO country should be contributing their share to the effort. If NATO is so American-dependent...then we probably need to renegotiate the terms of the agreement, right?"

"As I said, there are benefits we reap from this too. And I appreciate your consideration of the humanity of our troops, it's something which is often overlooked. It's what makes the decision to go to war, or to commit to some other military action, so difficult. But sometimes we must swallow the bitter pill and do what is right when it is clear that doing so will help save lives and keep us safe. We could examine scaling back the German commitment, but Russia - and our allies for that matter - might see that as a climbdown on our part, especially after our retreat from a number of red lines over the past two administrations. That said, we aren't the only country with troops in Germany. The British maintain a contingent there too. That said, it's something we'd have to negotiate outside of the treaty, and perhaps consider redistributing the forces - the Poles are eager to have a base on their soil - because opening up the North Atlantic Treaty itself is extremely difficult and controversial. There's a lot of informal diplomacy that goes on, not just the stuff that gets written down."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

"Wisconsin, Wisconsin, Wisconsin, and I was expected you'd drive up from Chicago at some point. Once the ARA passes I'm planning to tweet out some messaging. The bill is a nice enough start, in large part thanks to us, but it's only the beginning and we're going to do everything in our power to make sure our priorities on healthcare, infrastructure, and the minimum wage get through, meanwhile, if the GOP gets the majority you can kiss things like a livable wage, roads without potholes, good insurance policies, and anything that'd bring the rust belt back to life goodbye."

"Probably thank Rogers and Vichter too for getting a few things in there before the bill got put on the docket."

"They're good kids, Rogers and Vichter, but I see there wasn't support for your amendment on the Endless Frontier Act. What was all that about?"

[New Cobastheia]

"I like what you're saying. Feel free to develop those theories some more, figuring out who'd be our easiest competition is something I'm going to want to be covered during the meeting. I'm not sure of the numbers on hand right now, but if we have enough funds and the number look close enough we could try and influence their primary in our favor."

"I'll think about it some more...maybe I'll write up a list of pros and cons of each Republican as an opponent. I ran a couple campaigns over the years, I've got a pretty good idea on strategy. Our party has a really good opportunity against these candidates, and I'd like if our candidates could eventually hear my ideas for how to take on each of them."

"I'll definitely let you forward your points to them once we figure out where we're heading as a caucus. How confident are you in your skills when it comes to this sort of thing?" He asked, sounding more curious than anything.

[Velahor]

Rogers was a bit flustered. Bundeswehr? Nord Stream 2?...Google would be getting a workout on his phone after this.

Nonetheless, he kept his composure to ask more.

"Oh...I'm definitely not an isolationist. But man...it just seems to me like our troops do most of the work for anything NATO-related, and everyone else reaps the benefits. These troops are real live people...not some abstract concept...but real people who could be killed...it's just something we need to be a little more sensitive to. I definitely see the value in keeping our troops in Germany...but not at the levels they are at. If us being in Germany is chiefly a NATO mission, every NATO country should be contributing their share to the effort. If NATO is so American-dependent...then we probably need to renegotiate the terms of the agreement, right?"

"As I said, there are benefits we reap from this too. And I appreciate your consideration of the humanity of our troops, it's something which is often overlooked. It's what makes the decision to go to war, or to commit to some other military action, so difficult. But sometimes we must swallow the bitter pill and do what is right when it is clear that doing so will help save lives and keep us safe. We could examine scaling back the German commitment, but Russia - and our allies for that matter - might see that as a climbdown on our part, especially after our retreat from a number of red lines over the past two administrations. That said, we aren't the only country with troops in Germany. The British maintain a contingent there too. That said, it's something we'd have to negotiate outside of the treaty, and perhaps consider redistributing the forces - the Poles are eager to have a base on their soil - because opening up the North Atlantic Treaty itself is extremely difficult and controversial. There's a lot of informal diplomacy that goes on, not just the stuff that gets written down."

"Alright, well I guess that I would like to see some of that informal diplomacy go toward negotiating with our allies to kind set things a bit more equal there. There's a difference between being in Europe for our benefit and being there to provide an army for our allies while they can turn and spend the money they would have spent on the military on other programs. While I agree that there's benefit to being in NATO, we can't be basically paying our allies' military bills. And if it turns to war someday, it won't be just American dollars, but American lives that are spent defending countries who cut their military budgets because they thought NATO would keep them safe."

[Gordano and Lysandus]

"Alright, well I guess that I would like to see some of that informal diplomacy go toward negotiating with our allies to kind set things a bit more equal there. There's a difference between being in Europe for our benefit and being there to provide an army for our allies while they can turn and spend the money they would have spent on the military on other programs. While I agree that there's benefit to being in NATO, we can't be basically paying our allies' military bills. And if it turns to war someday, it won't be just American dollars, but American lives that are spent defending countries who cut their military budgets because they thought NATO would keep them safe."

"It's a case of getting that balance right. We want them to be strong enough to not be totally dependent, but we don't want them to be too capable of swanning off on adventures independently. Ultimately, it's a tightrope, and no one really walks away from it totally satisfied. Never let the perfect get in the way of the good. You're right, of course, it's just a case of being able to do that alongside just about everything else that the United States has to do," She smiiled softly, hoping that William was finding this as educational as she hoped.