New Civilizations [OOC | Always Open]

[Orostan]

Yes, although they'd mostly be fighting themselves and the swarms of bandits that crossed their borders during the war. It's an extremely chaotic place to be right now.

So a bunch of nomadic charioteers fighting each other and the incursion of Yin Yie. Gonna have to call myself 公路之星 and get to work upgrading and modifying it.

Ye Yin will be an interesting enemy to fight. He's been there for a few years by now and has an organized state set up, if you can fight him taking control of his organization would help you a lot. He also has a lot of artisans familiar with Chinese technology from a few years ago.

[Ralnis]

So a bunch of nomadic charioteers fighting each other and the incursion of Yin Yie. Gonna have to call myself 公路之星 and get to work upgrading and modifying it.

Ye Yin will be an interesting enemy to fight. He's been there for a few years by now and has an organized state set up, if you can fight him taking control of his organization would help you a lot. He also has a lot of artisans familiar with Chinese technology from a few years ago.

Would be worth a fight. A horde of modified chariots and the smallest warlord with the most colorful heavy chariot fighting an organized state.

[Suriyanakhon]

I will also point out the impact that cheap textiles are likely to have on gender relations.

A big part of what premodern women did at home, and thus a big part of what kept premodern women at home, was spinning thread and making cloth.

Now you just need the washing machine and the material conditions for women’s liberation are satisfied.

This is the only reason that Hanajima isn't full matriarchy yet.

[Orostan]

I will also point out the impact that cheap textiles are likely to have on gender relations.

A big part of what premodern women did at home, and thus a big part of what kept premodern women at home, was spinning thread and making cloth.

Now you just need the washing machine and the material conditions for women’s liberation are satisfied.

This is the only reason that Hanajima isn't full matriarchy yet.

That reminds me, would outsiders be aware of how female dominated your society is or would they interact mostly with male officials and think Hanajima just has a funny system of monarchy?

[The Hierophancy]

Well, it's probably worth mentioning that Central asia has had tamed ( not domesticated ) horses for a few centuries by this point.

No one in the world has domesticated horses right now, and they're all pretty much what you'd expect in terms of inferior biology. But yeah, Bo should have horses around where he's landing

How're people runnin about with cavalry if their future powers weren't able to instantaneously domesticate the puny, pathetic wild horse (stupid baby fit only for pulling plows and chariots)

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Well, it's probably worth mentioning that Central asia has had tamed ( not domesticated ) horses for a few centuries by this point.

No one in the world has domesticated horses right now, and they're all pretty much what you'd expect in terms of inferior biology. But yeah, Bo should have horses around where he's landing

How're people runnin about with cavalry if their future powers weren't able to instantaneously domesticate the puny, pathetic wild horse (stupid baby fit only for pulling plows and chariots)

Well here in Hejaz we've been breeding camels like crazy for about 15 years since the Sumerians introduced them. They can carry a decent amount I'd wager, even with the limited selective breeding we've done. Our riders specifically aren't armored though, for added realism about weight concerns.

[The Hierophancy]

How're people runnin about with cavalry if their future powers weren't able to instantaneously domesticate the puny, pathetic wild horse (stupid baby fit only for pulling plows and chariots)

Well here in Hejaz we've been breeding camels like crazy for about 15 years since the Sumerians introduced them. They can carry a decent amount I'd wager, even with the limited selective breeding we've done. Our riders specifically aren't armored though, for added realism about weight concerns.

Looking it up, camels take like 3-5 years to reach the minimum sexual maturity and have a 15 month gestation, so 15 years is only like ~3/4 generations of camel - although iirc the descendants of pre-domestication Bactrian camels are only a little smaller than the domestic ones, so maybe middle eastern dromedary come rider-ready out of the natural selection factory, lol.

Also, wild Bactrian camels can apparently survive on water saltier than seawater. Sounds pretty useful.

[Suriyanakhon]

This is the only reason that Hanajima isn't full matriarchy yet.

That reminds me, would outsiders be aware of how female dominated your society is or would they interact mostly with male officials and think Hanajima just has a funny system of monarchy?

I don't think that the monarchy would be seen as that funny or queer since as far as I know, the period was mostly egalitarian and we see women enjoying powerful spiritual roles in East Asia. Though the amount of deference that women receive would probably be considered strange in all eras.

[Suriyanakhon]

[Orostan]

(Image)

the invasions will continue until you stop posting cringe

[Joohan]

Well here in Hejaz we've been breeding camels like crazy for about 15 years since the Sumerians introduced them. They can carry a decent amount I'd wager, even with the limited selective breeding we've done. Our riders specifically aren't armored though, for added realism about weight concerns.

Looking it up, camels take like 3-5 years to reach the minimum sexual maturity and have a 15 month gestation, so 15 years is only like ~3/4 generations of camel - although iirc the descendants of pre-domestication Bactrian camels are only a little smaller than the domestic ones, so maybe middle eastern dromedary come rider-ready out of the natural selection factory, lol.

Also, wild Bactrian camels can apparently survive on water saltier than seawater. Sounds pretty useful.

Aight, buddy, imma need you to shut right now. No one knows how OP camels are, so you need to turn it all the way down

[Joohan]

How're people runnin about with cavalry if their future powers weren't able to instantaneously domesticate the puny, pathetic wild horse (stupid baby fit only for pulling plows and chariots)

Well here in Hejaz we've been breeding camels like crazy for about 15 years since the Sumerians introduced them. They can carry a decent amount I'd wager, even with the limited selective breeding we've done. Our riders specifically aren't armored though, for added realism about weight concerns.

Selective breeding wouldn't really be necessary on the overall effectiveness of camels. Modern camel species aren't very genetically different from their ancestors prior to human domestication. Case in point, feral Bactrian camels and domestic Bactrian camels have almost parity in terms of physical attributes

[Joohan]

Well, it's probably worth mentioning that Central asia has had tamed ( not domesticated ) horses for a few centuries by this point.

No one in the world has domesticated horses right now, and they're all pretty much what you'd expect in terms of inferior biology. But yeah, Bo should have horses around where he's landing

How're people runnin about with cavalry if their future powers weren't able to instantaneously domesticate the puny, pathetic wild horse (stupid baby fit only for pulling plows and chariots)

The current cavalry utilized by most people are only short range scouts with smaller riders. No one is seriously using waves of horse archers or dedicated cavalry corps.

[Suriyanakhon]

(Image)

the invasions will continue until you stop posting cringe

I'll start taking their measurements for the skirts immediately.

[The Hierophancy]

Looking it up, camels take like 3-5 years to reach the minimum sexual maturity and have a 15 month gestation, so 15 years is only like ~3/4 generations of camel - although iirc the descendants of pre-domestication Bactrian camels are only a little smaller than the domestic ones, so maybe middle eastern dromedary come rider-ready out of the natural selection factory, lol.

Also, wild Bactrian camels can apparently survive on water saltier than seawater. Sounds pretty useful.

Aight, buddy, imma need you to shut right now. No one knows how OP camels are, so you need to turn it all the way down

I won't mention it again... I can forget all about the camels... just spare my life, I beg of you

[Joohan]

Aight, buddy, imma need you to shut right now. No one knows how OP camels are, so you need to turn it all the way down

I won't mention it again... I can forget all about the camels... just spare my life, I beg of you

Watch where you land boy...

You dropping an app any time soon?

[The Hierophancy]

I won't mention it again... I can forget all about the camels... just spare my life, I beg of you

Watch where you land boy...

You dropping an app any time soon?

After I finish up my latest post for A Different World - so an app here should arrive hopefully tnight or tomorrow

[Suriyanakhon]

Hey Oro, could you tell me more about the Shen Empire? I'm pretty sure there's going to be a conflict between them and Hanajima, and wanted to get a better idea of what they were like.

[Orostan]

Hey Oro, could you tell me more about the Shen Empire? I'm pretty sure there's going to be a conflict between them and Hanajima, and wanted to get a better idea of what they were like.

The Shen have an organized state and are setting themselves up in Korea through a client state in the north made up of tribes they got to work with them. The Shen have a lot of the same technology that China does but they're not as good at using it and frequently trade raw iron ore for finished iron products from China. Their army would not be as hard to fight as China's and would lack a lot of equipment like automatic crossbows, but their use of iron and bronze would make them a big threat. They're also mountain people in many cases so they will not have the same terrain issues that Chinese soldiers living their entire lives on the north china plain have when put in mountains.

The Shen use copper square shaped currency probably with a stamp of their king on it. They fly a green flag and also speak a different language than the Chinese do. They're not necessarily bloodthirsty barbarians either but they are absolutely not friends of the average Korean. They also used to fight China frequently and a good part of their army is rebels and former bandits from the north of China. The social structure of their empire is more similar to Hanajima's and they have nobles unlike China.

[Suriyanakhon]

Hey Oro, could you tell me more about the Shen Empire? I'm pretty sure there's going to be a conflict between them and Hanajima, and wanted to get a better idea of what they were like.

The Shen have an organized state and are setting themselves up in Korea through a client state in the north made up of tribes they got to work with them. The Shen have a lot of the same technology that China does but they're not as good at using it and frequently trade raw iron ore for finished iron products from China. Their army would not be as hard to fight as China's and would lack a lot of equipment like automatic crossbows, but their use of iron and bronze would make them a big threat. They're also mountain people in many cases so they will not have the same terrain issues that Chinese soldiers living their entire lives on the north china plain have when put in mountains.

The Shen use copper square shaped currency probably with a stamp of their king on it. They fly a green flag and also speak a different language than the Chinese do. They're not necessarily bloodthirsty barbarians either but they are absolutely not friends of the average Korean. They also used to fight China frequently and a good part of their army is rebels and former bandits from the north of China. The social structure of their empire is more similar to Hanajima's and they have nobles unlike China.

Thanks, sounds like there will be an interesting conflict between the two for control of the peninsula. As a side note, I'm going to assume that they follow something akin to a Proto-Taoist religion, in contrast to southern Korea where Buddhism and animism are the dominant faiths.

[Joohan]

The Shen use copper square shaped currency probably with a stamp of their king on it.

Why would the shen use currency at all? If they're mostly influenced by the Chinese, who themselves don't use a currency, then what would prompt them to? Currency, irl, came with advent of large commercial economies and state institutions. if Aaron didn't give them this idea, then they wouldn't have come up with it on their own.

They fly a green flag and also speak a different language than the Chinese do.

Every tribe in china speaks a different language. The only lingua franca would be whatever conlang Aaron has put together for record keeping.

As well, G has raised some protests from the numerous new inventions proposed in your most recent post:

Threshing machine, the brick furnaces, the steam engine, the blast furnaces, stamp mills, among other things. As we've said before, the overwhelming majority of new developments should be coming directly from Aaron - the native population taking vastly longer to create similar innovations. I don't recall Aaron at any point in the IC going about the meticulous labor of personally designing a threshing machine and then testing it.
The listed inventions are certainly within Aaron's ability to create, but they require his direct supervision - a native will not by his own labors make similar progress. Remember, it took centuries for people in our own timeline to invent these things. Peoples brains aren't fired up merely by Aaron's presence.

Likewise, feel free to drop the details below if you'd like, but G has described them, your " steam engines " more resemble water boilers than anything, and would have dubious efficiency. And he's described your blast furnaces as more aking to column smelters. That's all fine and well, just be sure to note their inefficiencies as Aaron experiments with them. Also, their proliferation across the country shouldn't really be a thing right now. If a town wanted to sink an investment, that's fine, I wouldn't tell you no - but it suffer's from another issue -

I'm dubious of your assertion that iron production has " increased ". Your armies, in short time, have vastly increased, tens of thousands of people have been killed or fled the country, and swaths of the nation are effectively in the hands of traditional tribal authorities. None of this paints a picture of increased mine productivity. Having slaves doesn't make up for poor logistical infrastructure. Iron should be something of a rarity right now, being eaten entirely by the war machine.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Well here in Hejaz we've been breeding camels like crazy for about 15 years since the Sumerians introduced them. They can carry a decent amount I'd wager, even with the limited selective breeding we've done. Our riders specifically aren't armored though, for added realism about weight concerns.

Selective breeding wouldn't really be necessary on the overall effectiveness of camels. Modern camel species aren't very genetically different from their ancestors prior to human domestication. Case in point, feral Bactrian camels and domestic Bactrian camels have almost parity in terms of physical attributes

Well there we go. It seems my camels are just fucking great from the get-go. Even still, we are breeding camels like crazy. Gotta make lots of those guys as like, our primary method of moving x thing to place y.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Selective breeding wouldn't really be necessary on the overall effectiveness of camels. Modern camel species aren't very genetically different from their ancestors prior to human domestication. Case in point, feral Bactrian camels and domestic Bactrian camels have almost parity in terms of physical attributes

Well there we go. It seems my camelry are just fucking great from the get-go

Obviously we must invent genetic sequencing to splice the excellent camel genes in with the rubbish horse genes. It is the only way to circumvent the selective breeding process.

[Ralnis]

Who needs horses when you have chariots?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Who needs horses when you have chariots?

Horses draw chariots - well, or mules, or donkeys, or wild asses. Or elephant or dromedaries. Or slaves. All decent options.

Actually yeah, I suppose you don't need horses. Belay that.