Divinity/Humanity OOC

by **Nations United for Conquest** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:27 am

Canis Rex wrote:I'm very on the fence with Tilian. The app itself is certainly impressive but it also undoubtedly plays with the lore the most and breaks the request of them being children of the deities. You certainly seem knowledgeable though and have obviously put forth an effort into it. Since we'll all be rp'ing together, I'd like to hear what the others thoughts might be with something like this(here or TG is fine). We may can even work out an idea like accepting Tilian but closing apps to avoid further changes (since we also already have a good roster size). Not sure yet but will figure it out.

If it doesn't fit in with your image of the RP I can surely come up with another character, I'll just need time.

by **Canis Rex** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:49 am

It might end up not being an issue, I'm just being cautious. You can make more if you want more characters since I'm fine with people rp'ing multiple, but Tilian could still be accepted.

by **Flohaland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:35 am

When do you think we will start and how?

by **The H Corporation** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:45 am

Flohaland wrote:When do you think we will start and how?

We will start whenever Canis Rex thinks it's the time to do so, for now, we are still discussing how we will start.

Like, do we start with our characters closer or in a middle point? We are still on that, if you all want my opinion I think developing a small journey with NPCs and small events could be a great idea (Like for example, Nephele encounters a trader and start from there and doother stuff as well) if not then maybe we could start near each other but not too close, maybe we can all meet each other in the last Kingdom existing, but not all at the same time, (Like going into a journey in pairs or trios) so we the RP continues to flow in different parts, or have side quests apart from the main one.

Idk this is just my opinion and I am just giving out an idea

by **Flohaland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:30 am

I think that is a good start. Without knowing what the dream says about the moon child, I am guessing the best place to start would be a temple to the moon. Maybe on a full moon. That way not everyone has to arrive at the same time, but those who arrive early will wait for the full moon.

by **Cainesland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:38 am

I made a map of the last kingdom. I ran it by Canis Rex and it seems to be liked.

The letters and Reme represent where the 9 largest cities are. Dotted lines are roads. Blue is ocean. Green is Forest. Yellow is what was agriculture land before the black snow. Red is land outside the kingdom.

Edit:

by **Canis Rex** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:10 am

For Tilian, since I did say I was fine with the lore being a little loose, I'll give a try and accept. Not being a 'true' Demi-god might even play into the plot so I'm willing to see where it goes.

For starting, I was waiting to see if much more apps were coming but with how many people we have we should probably make a final plan to actually start.
I'd be fine with a small journey of pairs and trios leading up to the moon child though. Keep in mind finding the child is only phase one and not the end. Any ideas/requests for who meets who along the way?

by **Cainesland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:19 am

Canis Rex wrote:For Tilian, since I did say I was fine with the lore being a little loose, I'll give a try and accept. Not being a 'true' Demi-god might even play into the plot so I'm willing to see where it goes.

For starting, I was waiting to see if much more apps were coming but with how many people we have we should probably make a final plan to actually start.
I'd be fine with a small journey of pairs and trios leading up to the moon child though. Keep in mind finding the child is only phase one and not the end. Any ideas/requests for who meets who along the way?

With some being in different parts of the country, it could make sense for those closest together to meet first. Julia and Polaris for instance could be a pair. Only issue is this may leave some people without a partner to run into.

by **Ceystile** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:56 am

I’m thinking Argo and Hattie meet up along the way because they’re both from the same godly parent: “yay, new brother!”

by **Cainesland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:15 pm

Which of the 9 cities would the preference be for the capital’s location?

by **Kaledoria** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:29 pm

As for the Tilian Application, I'd like to say that I did not envision my Goddess of Anarchy as the physical embodiment of the concept of Chaos, Rebels or the like. There are probably cults, that praise her in a different way. Like a love deity, because her followship blesses more marriages across castes then any other God ... well, before the plague at least, not as if anyone gives a damn, if a noble and a peasant marry while the city is attacked by a Lindworm or so...
In other words, she is a complex character, though with extreme attitudes at times and the way she usually interacted with humans, in a way that inspired worship, was by helping them fight oppression, slavery, intolerance etc. Thus her followers pigeonholed her into the label of the Rebel Goddess.

About the map: As it happens, I'm a passionate Mapmaker, it's currently 1 AM here but I have vacations so I'll see if I can prettify that a bit.
The population does not really make sense. I know people a dying a lot these days but they are not nearly dying enough for a 100% city population with medieval farming and preservation technology. At these city sizes (196,406 in the 9 biggest cities), the total population should still be around 400,000. Even then the farmers will not be able to fully supply the cities and every year the weakest bunch will die from starvation but at least not everybody (I guess a cannibal could make it one year but no longer, starvation victims are not very nutritious.)

My start idea was to find a random Moon Goddess priest/descendant but a holy side sounds even better, I have a great idea there... :twisted:

by **Nations United for Conquest** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:07 pm

Kaledoria wrote:As for the Tilian Application, I'd like to say that I did not envision my Goddess of Anarchy as the physical embodiment of the concept of Chaos, Rebels or the like. There are probably cults, that praise her in a different way. Like a love deity, because her followship blesses more marriages across castes then any other God ... well, before the plague at least, not as if anyone gives a damn, if a noble and a peasant marry while the city is attacked by a Lindworm or so...
In other words, she is a complex character, though with extreme attitudes at times and the way she usually interacted with humans, in a way that inspired worship, was by helping them fight oppression, slavery, intolerance etc. Thus her followers pigeonholed her into the label of the Rebel Goddess.

To clear up some misunderstanding I interpreted it as her Authority resting in the Concept of True Freedom, of which Chaos and Rebelion spring from. The idea of True Freedom is one Man struggles with because society more or less requires order and structure to function which goes against the very nature of Freedom. Therefore when her influence is realized and rationalized by Man it comes across as people who are Rebellious, Chaotic, or Ancharists, as their attempts at achieving Freedom cause friction with the concept of Society. I wrote something along the lines of "A Child of Freedom will Rebel" or something of the like because an expression of their nature influenced by divinity is likely to be interpreted as such against a larger society. To seek Freedom is often to go against authority which demands order, thus they rebel.

I apologize if such an interpretation was wrong and/or not inline with your imagining of the character/God. Then again, the statements found in the app for Tilian are just as much an interpretation, rather than a state of true or fact, which is so rarely found in Mythology or Religion.

Tilian is actually partially based off Oisin, if you were wondering where certain inspiration comes from. He will most likely start off alone and either be one of the first or last of the characters to arrive...

by **Cainesland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:58 pm

About the map: As it happens, I'm a passionate Mapmaker, it's currently 1 AM here but I have vacations so I'll see if I can prettify that a bit.

Interesting. I’m curious how it’ll turn out.

The population does not really make sense. I know people a dying a lot these days but they are not nearly dying enough for a 100% city population with medieval farming and preservation technology. At these city sizes (196,406 in the 9 biggest cities), the total population should still be around 400,000. Even then the farmers will not be able to fully supply the cities and every year the weakest bunch will die from starvation but at least not everybody (I guess a cannibal could make it one year but no longer, starvation victims are not very nutritious.)

Based on discussions with Canis and posts in the rp I get the impression that the high death rate is by design. Canis mentioned that humanity is almost gone and mostly clustered together. I offered an alternative figure of 5,100,000 but 195-200k was preferred. So people are dying from hunger, disease, and each other in a sense.

If I assume 15,300,000 as a pre black snow starting point, this would mean only up to 13% of the last kingdoms population is still around after 12 years. Possibly less in other areas because of more hazards. If the populations of the last kingdoms 9 largest cities declined by about 2/3rds in that 12 year period, it’s possible most villages have been wiped out. The remaining approximately 3,594 (if 200,000) are probably made up of monasteries, straggler villages and estates, nomads, Rangers, Druids, Minstrels, Cultists and Bandits among others.

If we don’t assume hunger is not as big of a deal, another alternative could be to assume a cities population is what is not just inside its walls but also in its immediate vicinity. In which case, taking city P as an example, we could assume half are 18 and under, 40% are 19-54, and 10% are 55+. Of those 19-54 90% are farmers and hunters, and 10% are urban doing roles such as trades, merchants, defence, banking, government, magic, etc.

This would mean
60,000
Junior - 30,000
Working age - 24,000
Senior - 6,000

Farmers and hunters - 54,000 (21,600 working age, 5,400 senior, 27,000 junior)
Urban - 6,000 (2,400 working age, 600 seniors, and 3,000 juniors)

by **Nations United for Conquest** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:40 pm

Ah, something worth noting about Treoir is whilst he doesn't not have Authority over these he has a close association to them; Travelers and Raconteurs [Of which Tilian is both]. One of the only known legends pertaining to Treoir is "The Tale of the Serpent and The Wayfarer", which lead to a celebration in an unknown Coastal Village called "The Festival of the Western Winds" wherein a figure possibly believed to be either Treoir or an incarnation of Treoir saves a village that had supposedly been forsaken by the Goddess of the Hunt for their Hubris. The Tale is said to possibly be one of the great deeds that possibly lead to Treoir's ascension to a God, similar to Hercules' Labors. The Tale only exists in the Oral Tradition, traded by travelers and musicians on the road and among those who have actually visited the unnamed village where the Festival still takes place. More details of the legend to come either here or in the IC when it starts up.

I also wonder Polaris' take on Tilian and his heritage will be 'cause as it stands Treoir is the only God that seems to have Authorities possibly overlapping with another God.

by **Charmante** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:25 pm

Canis Rex wrote:...but closing apps to avoid further changes (since we also already have a good roster size).

Shame apps are closed ;( I've been looking at this thread, but been hesitant because it's been awhile since I last roleplayed on the NS forms and I don't have too much experience. Popping by to give some greetings and so I can watch from the sidelines

by **Cainesland** » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:40 pm

Charmante wrote:
Canis Rex wrote:...but closing apps to avoid further changes (since we also already have a good roster size).

Shame apps are closed ;( I've been looking at this thread, but been hesitant because it's been awhile since I last roleplayed on the NS forms and I don't have too much experience. Popping by to give some greetings and so I can watch from the sidelines

I don’t think it’s closed yet. You can still apply if you’d like.

by **Flohaland** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:32 am

Kaledoria wrote:As for the Tilian Application, I'd like to say that I did not envision my Goddess of Anarchy as the physical embodiment of the concept of Chaos, Rebels or the like. There are probably cults, that praise her in a different way. Like a love deity, because her followship blesses more marriages across castes then any other God ... well, before the plague at least, not as if anyone gives a damn, if a noble and a peasant marry while the city is attacked by a Lindworm or so...
In other words, she is a complex character, though with extreme attitudes at times and the way she usually interacted with humans, in a way that inspired worship, was by helping them fight oppression, slavery, intolerance etc. Thus her followers pigeonholed her into the label of the Rebel Goddess.

About the map: As it happens, I'm a passionate Mapmaker, it's currently 1 AM here but I have vacations so I'll see if I can prettify that a bit.
The population does not really make sense. I know people a dying a lot these days but they are not nearly dying enough for a 100% city population with medieval farming and preservation technology. At these city sizes (196,406 in the 9 biggest cities), the total population should still be around 400,000. Even then the farmers will not be able to fully supply the cities and every year the weakest bunch will die from starvation but at least not everybody (I guess a cannibal could make it one year but no longer, starvation victims are not very nutritious.)

My start idea was to find a random Moon Goddess priest/descendant but a holy side sounds even better, I have a great idea there...

I don't really understand how anarchy/freedom/rebellion is a way that a feudal society interprets a deity. I think that you are applying a very modern idea of liberty to a premodern society.

Of course, classical societies had an idea of freedom, it just was different than ours. Most importantly, rebellion and anarchy were seen as very bad things. This is especially relevant in a feudal society where loyalty is highly valued.

In contrast to today where the conservatives and establishment depict themselves as rebels and revolutionaries.

by **Charmante** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:05 am

Cainesland wrote:
Charmante wrote:Shame apps are closed ;( I've been looking at this thread, but been hesitant because it's been awhile since I last roleplayed on the NS forms and I don't have too much experience. Popping by to give some greetings and so I can watch from the sidelines

I don’t think it’s closed yet. You can still apply if you’d like.

Thanks, just planning to sit back and watch it for now though. May decide to join if it opens up again

by **Canis Rex** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:12 am

Cainesland wrote:Which of the 9 cities would the preference be for the capital’s location?

I would go with O. Looks to be on agricultural area as well as near forest. Has good population too and so I think gives us the most to work with.

by **Canis Rex** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:15 am

Charmante wrote:
Cainesland wrote:
I don’t think it’s closed yet. You can still apply if you’d like.

Thanks, just planning to sit back and watch it for now though. May decide to join if it opens up again

You're free to watch if you want but if you did want to join applications are still open. Closing was a possibility but I haven't yet. Thanks for the interest in any case.

by **Canis Rex** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:24 am

As for the population, the massive decline is indeed intentional. The pantheon wanted humanity to die, and not with a bang, but by being ground down into nothing. Hence why they are so desperate for the moon child to be a savior. Given a few more years, humans will be gone.
With groups, the current proposed ones sound good and we should make sure everyone has somebody to interact with when we start.

by **Ceystile** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:14 am

If anybody wants to meet up with Argo and/or Hattie I’m game. Caine suggested that Julia and Polly be a pair and I’m down if Barapam is.

by **Kaledoria** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:53 am

Canis Rex wrote:As for the population, the massive decline is indeed intentional. The pantheon wanted humanity to die, and not with a bang, but by being ground down into nothing. Hence why they are so desperate for the moon child to be a savior. Given a few more years, humans will be gone.
With groups, the current proposed ones sound good and we should make sure everyone has somebody to interact with when we start.

I was wondering more about the urban rate then the population itself. I don't usually calculate this high a rate of people in the production of foodstuff in cities. However, I guess with the monsters and such it's more likely, people will flee to the walled cities if there is space, even if it means a longer way to the field. Plus with empty living space for 120,000 people I guess by now there is a good deal of in-city gardening going on and of course, just because there used to be 180,000 people and now there are 60,000 does not mean that 120,000 died in the city. Way more died and the difference migrated to the city and brought with them whatever stockpiles they had (and could salvage from their rural neighbors who have been eaten by monsters

) so ... I guess one can find explanations why there is barely any rural population left and yet there is still a decent number of people in the cities...

by **Flohaland** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:08 am

Ceystile wrote:If anybody wants to meet up with Argo and/or Hattie I’m game. Caine suggested that Julia and Polly be a pair and I’m down if Barapam is.

I am looking for someone for Arzon to partner with, I am not sure who is most appropriate. Arzon is moving from the wilderness towards civilization, I am thinking from east or northeast. Of course, he has been doing it at least two years now, so he could have made his way pretty far. That gives us plenty of freedom with selecting a starting point geographically.

by **The H Corporation** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:16 am

I don't really mind I am paired or not, if you want to know Nephele lives somewhere in the North (Not sure where I need a map to make a reference)

Divinity/Humanity OOC

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