A Victory in the East (Alternate History RP/OOC) Open

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

30,000.



I mean a single missile at a battle group with Aegis plus the fact Japan has taken out his targeting satellites? Unlikely in my opinion.

Even without satellites his missile has a within 50 meter accuracy and cannot be stopped by AEGIS. The kinetic energy alone of the hypersonic missile will snap the spine of the carriers superstructure like Bane snapping Batman’s back over his knee.

Actually if you look into it, (I presume you are on wiki) it says: "Accuracy: DF-21 700m, DF-21A 50m, DF-21B 10m CEP (with BeiDou Navigation Satellite System and active radar)"

That is with satellites. Accuracy is how close it will fall within the target area, not the size of the explosion. He said he used a DF-21D. That has an accuracy of 700 meters. It could hit 700 meters away from the carrier.

Also it is vulnerable to Aegis. Not everyone quickly believes communist propaganda, and the US says: "The DF-21D may also not be as fast as theorized. While ballistic missiles reenter the atmosphere at speeds between Mach 8-15 at an altitude of 50 km (160,000 ft), increasing air resistance in the denser low-atmosphere region reduces terminal speed to around Mach 2 at 3–5 km (9,800–16,400 ft). It cannot acquire its target until this point due to ionization blockage, leaving a relatively short time to actually search for a ship. This could enable the target to leave the area if the missile is detected soon enough before it engages its terminal sensors, and the slower speed upon reentry leaves it vulnerable to missile interceptors."

[Union Princes]

Are we just gonna ignore that Japan is not acknowledging my 17th Army in the Guangxi-Vietnam border?

[Imperialisium]

Even without satellites his missile has a within 50 meter accuracy and cannot be stopped by AEGIS. The kinetic energy alone of the hypersonic missile will snap the spine of the carriers superstructure like Bane snapping Batman’s back over his knee.

Actually if you look into it, (I presume you are on wiki) it says: "Accuracy: DF-21 700m, DF-21A 50m, DF-21B 10m CEP (with BeiDou Navigation Satellite System and active radar)"

That is with satellites. Accuracy is how close it will fall within the target area, not the size of the explosion. He said he used a DF-21D. That has an accuracy of 700 meters. It could hit 700 meters away from the carrier.

Also it is vulnerable to Aegis. Not everyone quickly believes communist propaganda, and the US says: "The DF-21D may also not be as fast as theorized. While ballistic missiles reenter the atmosphere at speeds between Mach 8-15 at an altitude of 50 km (160,000 ft), increasing air resistance in the denser low-atmosphere region reduces terminal speed to around Mach 2 at 3–5 km (9,800–16,400 ft). It cannot acquire its target until this point due to ionization blockage, leaving a relatively short time to actually search for a ship. This could enable the target to leave the area if the missile is detected soon enough before it engages its terminal sensors, and the slower speed upon reentry leaves it vulnerable to missile interceptors."

Not everyone acknowledges American propaganda either. But you have no choice in acknowledging Operator statements,

Fact of the matter is AEGIS can’t stop a hypersonic missile. No ABM system that is public knowledge can. Why it’s so concerning. Also no ship in existence would be able to react in the single digit seconds they’d have to move out of the way in this scenario. Prince of Wales is more or less screwed. Zero way around this.

Further, If I wanted to nitpick I could have said days ago that no one but US has Aegis either. But I let that one go since I assumed the US player allowed it.

[Union Princes]

Can I also have AEGIS then?

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Korea should know about roughly 20,000 of them. 10,00 are more secretive Chuchun Sabotage Units. They are similar to special forces but not official. There are also roughly 6,000 members of the Border Police, which by Manchukuo law are to incorporated into the military during war.

Almost all of the 20k are on the border due to the fact they still see Manchuria as somewhat friendly. They know the one way it can be attacked and that is across the Yalu.

Ah okay. Thank you. I guess it's time to carry out my potential offensive then. Would I know the equipment of the 20k?

Mostly Type 74 tanks, Type 89 rifles, some Type 75 MRLS, other older equipment and a few domestic designs that would be the older stuff IRL Taiwan uses. Manchukuo has the most modern military of all the puppets.

Are we just gonna ignore that Japan is not acknowledging my 17th Army in the Guangxi-Vietnam border?

I would like to share with you the following snippets of information you have shared about the 17th.

"17th Army - 200,000 personnel (Guangxi)"
"16TH, 17TH, AND 18TH ARMIES SHALL INCREASE SIZE TO 400,000 PERSONNEL EACH (300k, 200k, 300k respectively)"
"The 17th and the 7th SG Army will lend divisions to support the local offensive, bringing forth additional artillery and AA support."

You have never said it was on the frontline. You did not include it fighting Vietnamese troops in your post. If it is not in the IC or if you don't make things clear, than it didn't happen. Your forces are not directly on the border and Japanese troops are advancing into China. That doesn't mean they aren't in Guangxi.

[Antimersia]

Can I also have AEGIS then?

its an american system.

[Strala]

Ah okay. Thank you. I guess it's time to carry out my potential offensive then. Would I know the equipment of the 20k?

Mostly Type 74 tanks, Type 89 rifles, some Type 75 MRLS, other older equipment and a few domestic designs that would be the older stuff IRL Taiwan uses. Manchukuo has the most modern military of all the puppets.

Are we just gonna ignore that Japan is not acknowledging my 17th Army in the Guangxi-Vietnam border?

I would like to share with you the following snippets of information you have shared about the 17th.

"17th Army - 200,000 personnel (Guangxi)"
"16TH, 17TH, AND 18TH ARMIES SHALL INCREASE SIZE TO 400,000 PERSONNEL EACH (300k, 200k, 300k respectively)"
"The 17th and the 7th SG Army will lend divisions to support the local offensive, bringing forth additional artillery and AA support."

You have never said it was on the frontline. You did not include it fighting Vietnamese troops in your post. If it is not in the IC or if you don't make things clear, than it didn't happen. Your forces are not directly on the border and Japanese troops are advancing into China. That doesn't mean they aren't in Guangxi.

Ah okay then. Thank you. I assume they also have a sizeable amount of artillery too due to them being so close to Korea?

[Union Princes]

Its because Vietnam was attacking into Yunnan, not Guangxi. I didn't write about The 17th Army because the focus was not on them. The army is there, it exists and it's part of the entrenchment line. You can't just bypass when the Frontline is fully manned

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Actually if you look into it, (I presume you are on wiki) it says: "Accuracy: DF-21 700m, DF-21A 50m, DF-21B 10m CEP (with BeiDou Navigation Satellite System and active radar)"

That is with satellites. Accuracy is how close it will fall within the target area, not the size of the explosion. He said he used a DF-21D. That has an accuracy of 700 meters. It could hit 700 meters away from the carrier.

Also it is vulnerable to Aegis. Not everyone quickly believes communist propaganda, and the US says: "The DF-21D may also not be as fast as theorized. While ballistic missiles reenter the atmosphere at speeds between Mach 8-15 at an altitude of 50 km (160,000 ft), increasing air resistance in the denser low-atmosphere region reduces terminal speed to around Mach 2 at 3–5 km (9,800–16,400 ft). It cannot acquire its target until this point due to ionization blockage, leaving a relatively short time to actually search for a ship. This could enable the target to leave the area if the missile is detected soon enough before it engages its terminal sensors, and the slower speed upon reentry leaves it vulnerable to missile interceptors."

Not everyone acknowledges American propaganda either. But you have no choice in acknowledging Operator statements,

Fact of the matter is AEGIS can’t stop a hypersonic missile. No ABM system that is public knowledge can. Why it’s so concerning. Also no ship in existence would be able to react in the single digit seconds they’d have to move out of the way in this scenario. Prince of Wales is more or less screwed. Zero way around this.

Further, If I wanted to nitpick I could have said days ago that no one but US has Aegis either. But I let that one go since I assumed the US player allowed it.

Can I point something out? A good number of ballistic missile projectiles are hypersonic. Your Tochka missile goes at Mach 5.3 when the projectile itself is falling down to Earth. Yes. You are right, no one can intercept the projectile when it is ay hypersonic speeds. However it can be shot down in its terminal phase.

Aegis can shoot down the DF-21 in its terminal phase. It takes minutes for the missile to get up into the air, and is vulnerable as it enters the tracking phase. The DF-21 isn't hypersonic. The projectile is.

If this stands, then my ballistic missiles all should have successfully landed in China. Their projectiles go at Mach 8 when they are falling since they are the equivalent of a Perishing II.

[Union Princes]

Can I also have AEGIS then?

its an american system.

And apparently, you gave it to the Japanese out of all the people on the roster.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Its because Vietnam was attacking into Yunnan, not Guangxi. I didn't write about The 17th Army because the focus was not on them. The army is there, it exists and it's part of the entrenchment line. You can't just bypass when the Frontline is fully manned

Vietnam is attacking Guangxi. Nanning (Vietnam's target) is in Guangxi. Vietnam started in Cao Bang which borders Guangxi. The 17th Army is the total focus.

[Monsone]

its an american system.

And apparently, you gave it to the Japanese out of all the people on the roster.

To be fair, Japan does have it IRL.

[Antimersia]

its an american system.

And apparently, you gave it to the Japanese out of all the people on the roster.

if i remember correctly, Tenno asked for it early on in the OOC and I agreed. I could be misremembering though. someone should check because if he didn't, he needs to reevaluate his situation.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

And apparently, you gave it to the Japanese out of all the people on the roster.

if i remember correctly, Tenno asked for it early on in the OOC and I agreed. I could be misremembering though. someone should check because if he didn't, he needs to reevaluate his situation.

I went off IRL ships which have it as part of my app.

[Union Princes]

Vietnam is attacking Guangxi. Nanning (Vietnam's target) is in Guangxi. Vietnam started in Cao Bang which borders Guangxi. The 17th Army is the total focus.

What do you mean? The attack is coming from Lai Chau. The focus is on the 18th Army in Yunnan

[Union Princes]

To be fair, Japan does have it IRL.

Yes, cause the US would totally share access to a Pacific rival when Japan got off easy in the rp's ww2

[Monsone]

To be fair, Japan does have it IRL.

Yes, cause the US would totally share access to a Pacific rival when Japan got off easy in the rp's ww2

I could rant about that...but doing to would be unwise.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Vietnam is attacking Guangxi. Nanning (Vietnam's target) is in Guangxi. Vietnam started in Cao Bang which borders Guangxi. The 17th Army is the total focus.

What do you mean? The attack is coming from Lai Chau. The focus is on the 18th Army in Yunnan

Have you at all read Vietnam's posts? The main force is attacking from Cao Bang. Reinforcements are going to Lai Chau.

[Imperialisium]

Not everyone acknowledges American propaganda either. But you have no choice in acknowledging Operator statements,

Fact of the matter is AEGIS can’t stop a hypersonic missile. No ABM system that is public knowledge can. Why it’s so concerning. Also no ship in existence would be able to react in the single digit seconds they’d have to move out of the way in this scenario. Prince of Wales is more or less screwed. Zero way around this.

Further, If I wanted to nitpick I could have said days ago that no one but US has Aegis either. But I let that one go since I assumed the US player allowed it.

Can I point something out? A good number of ballistic missile projectiles are hypersonic. Your Tochka missile goes at Mach 5.3 when the projectile itself is falling down to Earth. Yes. You are right, no one can intercept the projectile when it is ay hypersonic speeds. However it can be shot down in its terminal phase.

Aegis can shoot down the DF-21 in its terminal phase. It takes minutes for the missile to get up into the air, and is vulnerable as it enters the tracking phase. The DF-21 isn't hypersonic. The projectile is.

If this stands, then my ballistic missiles all should have successfully landed in China. Their projectiles go at Mach 8 when they are falling since they are the equivalent of a Perishing II.

Yeah no…that’s not how any of that actually works in reality.

What a “hypersonic missile” actually is, and why it’s a relatively new concern. Has nothing to do with the speed or fall of the projectile. That’s not what “hypersonic weapon” means in this context. A Hypersonic weapon, specifically a missile, has to be able to maneuver, acquire, and track targets while traveling at such a speed. If it can’t do all three automatically then it isn’t a hypersonic weapon/missile as defined by the terminology being used by IRL military forces. Launching things beyond Mach 5 is comparatively simple. Space Shuttles have re-entered orbit in excess of Mach 20. But the Space Shuttle can’t do a complex maneuver while going Mach 20. It would break apart quite horrifically like Columbia did.

This is why AEGIS is useless. Because yes, if it was a tried and aged ballistic missile falling at even Mach 6 along a trackable course it can be dealt with. But this fails impressively when the incoming missile dodges your attempt while still tracking your radar reflection at speeds excess of Mach 5. That’s why the Prince of Wales is screwed.

Further, the DF-21D need not actually climb that high. A true hypersonic weapon will be able to reach this speed very close to the surface from a land launch platform. It need not ascend then do a terminal gravity assisted fall to get past Mach 5. It can do so on its own.

Now, Prince of Wales need not have a catastrophic exploding death all Hollywood style. But it’ll be crippled and out of the fight until it can be repaired, if it can be saved. Most of the crew? Likely dead or in critical condition.

[Imperialisium]

To be fair, Japan does have it IRL.

Yes, cause the US would totally share access to a Pacific rival when Japan got off easy in the rp's ww2

Japan didn’t get off easy. It just didn’t completely lose its Empire. It actually got rocked harder in this timeline…if ya know…people bothered to READ the timeline.

[Deblar]

Post up.

America, don’t you dare…

[Union Princes]

Japan did get off easy. It didn't get nuked, it didn't get its home Islands invaded, Russia supported them for most of the war, and kept some semblance of an empire in China. How is that getting rocked hard? Manchuria stayed in the Co Prosperity Sphere for over 80 years despite being invaded by Russia. As if Russia never bothered changing the government to reflect St Petersburg and not Tokyo.

[TENNOHEIKA BANZAI NIHON]

Can I point something out? A good number of ballistic missile projectiles are hypersonic. Your Tochka missile goes at Mach 5.3 when the projectile itself is falling down to Earth. Yes. You are right, no one can intercept the projectile when it is ay hypersonic speeds. However it can be shot down in its terminal phase.

Aegis can shoot down the DF-21 in its terminal phase. It takes minutes for the missile to get up into the air, and is vulnerable as it enters the tracking phase. The DF-21 isn't hypersonic. The projectile is.

If this stands, then my ballistic missiles all should have successfully landed in China. Their projectiles go at Mach 8 when they are falling since they are the equivalent of a Perishing II.

Yeah no…that’s not how any of that actually works in reality.

What a “hypersonic missile” actually is, and why it’s a relatively new concern. Has nothing to do with the speed or fall of the projectile. That’s not what “hypersonic weapon” means in this context. A Hypersonic weapon, specifically a missile, has to be able to maneuver, acquire, and track targets while traveling at such a speed. If it can’t do all three automatically then it isn’t a hypersonic weapon/missile as defined by the terminology being used by IRL military forces. Launching things beyond Mach 5 is comparatively simple. Space Shuttles have re-entered orbit in excess of Mach 20. But the Space Shuttle can’t do a complex maneuver while going Mach 20. It would break apart quite horrifically like Columbia did.

This is why AEGIS is useless. Because yes, if it was a tried and aged ballistic missile falling at even Mach 6 along a trackable course it can be dealt with. But this fails impressively when the incoming missile dodges your attempt while still tracking your radar reflection at speeds excess of Mach 5. That’s why the Prince of Wales is screwed.

Further, the DF-21D need not actually climb that high. A true hypersonic weapon will be able to reach this speed very close to the surface from a land launch platform. It need not ascend then do a terminal gravity assisted fall to get past Mach 5. It can do so on its own.

Now, Prince of Wales need not have a catastrophic exploding death all Hollywood style. But it’ll be crippled and out of the fight until it can be repaired, if it can be saved. Most of the crew? Likely dead or in critical condition.

The DF-21 is still a ballistic missile. It has a hypersonic reentry-vehicle. This is no hypersonic cruise missile like what Russia has that goes from point A-B. It has to rise up and then as it re-enters the atmosphere, it gets to Mach 10.

In theory, Britain could shoot it down in that spilt second. If he has the SM-6, then that increases the likelihood since it is more maneuverable and is said to be able to shoot down the DF-21 in its terminal phase.

Britain can also deploy electronic countermeasures, which could lure away the missile. They have worked before, and even Russia has assessed this is a way it could be downed.

This missile is very similar to the Pershing II, which Japan has a similar one. Only difference is that his RV can move to a target and the Perishing RV doesn't. If this is invincible, so should be the Pershing. It is said that the DF-21 is based on the Pershing II

[Imperialisium]

Japan did get off easy. It didn't get nuked, it didn't get its home Islands invaded, Russia supported them for most of the war, and kept some semblance of an empire in China. How is that getting rocked hard? Manchuria stayed in the Co Prosperity Sphere for over 80 years despite being invaded by Russia. As if Russia never bothered changing the government to reflect St Petersburg and not Tokyo.

I’m like 103% sure I’ve stated Russia didn’t support Japan. Idk why you keep making up lore that has already been stated as not true. Russia also invaded Japanese Manchuria like the Soviet’s did OTL. Japan got it worse, just wasn’t nuked, and managed to keep some bits of its empire.

[Imperialisium]

Yeah no…that’s not how any of that actually works in reality.

What a “hypersonic missile” actually is, and why it’s a relatively new concern. Has nothing to do with the speed or fall of the projectile. That’s not what “hypersonic weapon” means in this context. A Hypersonic weapon, specifically a missile, has to be able to maneuver, acquire, and track targets while traveling at such a speed. If it can’t do all three automatically then it isn’t a hypersonic weapon/missile as defined by the terminology being used by IRL military forces. Launching things beyond Mach 5 is comparatively simple. Space Shuttles have re-entered orbit in excess of Mach 20. But the Space Shuttle can’t do a complex maneuver while going Mach 20. It would break apart quite horrifically like Columbia did.

This is why AEGIS is useless. Because yes, if it was a tried and aged ballistic missile falling at even Mach 6 along a trackable course it can be dealt with. But this fails impressively when the incoming missile dodges your attempt while still tracking your radar reflection at speeds excess of Mach 5. That’s why the Prince of Wales is screwed.

Further, the DF-21D need not actually climb that high. A true hypersonic weapon will be able to reach this speed very close to the surface from a land launch platform. It need not ascend then do a terminal gravity assisted fall to get past Mach 5. It can do so on its own.

Now, Prince of Wales need not have a catastrophic exploding death all Hollywood style. But it’ll be crippled and out of the fight until it can be repaired, if it can be saved. Most of the crew? Likely dead or in critical condition.

The DF-21 is still a ballistic missile. It has a hypersonic reentry-vehicle. This is no hypersonic cruise missile like what Russia has that goes from point A-B. It has to rise up and then as it re-enters the atmosphere, it gets to Mach 10.

In theory, Britain could shoot it down in that spilt second. If he has the SM-6, then that increases the likelihood since it is more maneuverable and is said to be able to shoot down the DF-21 in its terminal phase.

Britain can also deploy electronic countermeasures, which could lure away the missile. They have worked before, and even Russia has assessed this is a way it could be downed.

This missile is very similar to the Pershing II, which Japan has a similar one. Only difference is that his RV can move to a target and the Perishing RV doesn't. If this is invincible, so should be the Pershing. It is said that the DF-21 is based on the Pershing II

Nothing changes; Prince of Wales is being hit. This is settled. If need be I’ll write for what exactly happens to the ship. But for now I believe the UK player should decide how it becomes crippled and how many British sailors survive, and if it’s able to be saved and returned to future service.