A Victory in the East (Alternate History RP/OOC) Open

[The National Dominion of Hungary]

Whew, finally got a post up

[Segmentia]

If anyone wants any sort of economic or political interactions with India just let me know. I imagine corporations might be seeking a new source of cheaper labor with China effectively being blockaded on top of being at war.

[Hanovereich]

Vietnam would be interested in trade. The people are starting to see the effects of a war economy. I think Vietnamese companies (especially manufacturers) would want foreign trade the most.

[Segmentia]

Sounds good to me.

[Union Princes]

UP, please could you change your ORBAT for your mobilization, because your numbers do not match up. Just changing the numbers that you added soldiers to would be enough.

I'll do that when my mobilization is compete

[Hanovereich]

Well, do those that you have mobilized now, so I can use that as reference. You've done quite a lot of mobilization.

[Sao Nova Europa]

Will be making a post soon.

[Imperialisium]

TFW Russia is totally justified and acting to defend itself but still considered to be in open aggression.

[Hanovereich]

That’s exactly what somebody who is in open aggresion would say.

[Imperialisium]

That’s exactly what somebody who is in open aggresion would say.

Except all the evidence supports Russia. Ukraine’s defense is literally “well, we say we’re being attacked so like…just believe us?”

Probably why the UN hasn’t said anything since Russia can be like “here is the hours of video evidence from dozens of sources showing Ukraine blatantly breaking numerous ceasefires and armistices in the Donbas without warning. Then firing on Russian soil when we tried to get them to back off back to their ceasefire lines. Which, according to basically all international precepts is a blatant act of war by Ukraine.”

[Hanovereich]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Ukranian rebels fired on the soldiers which prompted them to retaliate. And your government supported the independence of the region, supplied the rebels that did the first strike, and then declared war on Ukraine.

[Revlona]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Ukranian rebels fired on the soldiers which prompted them to retaliate. And your government supported the independence of the region, supplied the rebels that did the first strike, and then declared war on Ukraine.

See, someone gets it.

Plus they also fired into Ukrainian territory and killed Ukrainian soldiers and then get all uppity when we respond. Seems like someone wants to have their sovereign rights recognized while not recognizing the sovereign rights of another.

Edit: it’s also the fact that Russia has no intent of stopping until they annex half of Ukraine that has people spooked I’m sure.

Lel, this is Ukraine POV.

[Imperialisium]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Ukranian rebels fired on the soldiers which prompted them to retaliate. And your government supported the independence of the region, supplied the rebels that did the first strike, and then declared war on Ukraine.

Except that isn't what happened.

Canonically,

>Ukrainian soldiers began a prolonged artillery strike.

>Separatists began their own hours later

>Ukrainian forces invaded.

>Russian artillery strike on Separatist soil to enforce the ceasefire lines and make Ukraine pull back.

>Ukraine launches a strike onto Russian soil which is a declaration of war via action.

>Russia declares war on Ukraine a week later in response to this blatant disregard for armistices, ceasefires, and years of diplomacy in de-escalating the conflict going out the window on top of actually shelling a foreign nation trying to enforce said diplomatic agreements.

Edit: This is just to ensure the IC is actually understood by players. Propaganda wise people can say whatever. But they need to specify that because otherwise they're just wrong and making it as if the actual course of events happened differently than written. Which will just confuse the every loving crap out of people OOCly.

[Revlona]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Ukranian rebels fired on the soldiers which prompted them to retaliate. And your government supported the independence of the region, supplied the rebels that did the first strike, and then declared war on Ukraine.

Except that isn't what happened.

Canonically,

>Ukrainian soldiers began a prolonged artillery strike.

>Separatists began their own hours later

>Ukrainian forces invaded.

>Russian artillery strike on Separatist soil to enforce the ceasefire lines and make Ukraine pull back.

>Ukraine launches a strike onto Russian soil which is a declaration of war via action.

>Russia declares war on Ukraine a week later in response to this blatant disregard for armistices, ceasefires, and years of diplomacy in de-escalating the conflict going out the window on top of actually shelling a foreign nation trying to enforce said diplomatic agreements.

Edit: This is just to ensure the IC is actually understood by players. Propaganda wise people can say whatever. But they need to specify that because otherwise they're just wrong and making it as if the actual course of events happened differently than written. Which will just confuse the every loving crap out of people OOCly.

It wasn’t a prolonged artillery attack, it was a coupled shells to force to separatists to respond. Then it became a prolonged attack, and only then. To make the actual starting of it murky.

IC I still hold to the fact that you were shelling Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian soil and that my response was justified. OOC dunno don’t care.

[Imperialisium]

Except that isn't what happened.

Canonically,

>Ukrainian soldiers began a prolonged artillery strike.

>Separatists began their own hours later

>Ukrainian forces invaded.

>Russian artillery strike on Separatist soil to enforce the ceasefire lines and make Ukraine pull back.

>Ukraine launches a strike onto Russian soil which is a declaration of war via action.

>Russia declares war on Ukraine a week later in response to this blatant disregard for armistices, ceasefires, and years of diplomacy in de-escalating the conflict going out the window on top of actually shelling a foreign nation trying to enforce said diplomatic agreements.

Edit: This is just to ensure the IC is actually understood by players. Propaganda wise people can say whatever. But they need to specify that because otherwise they're just wrong and making it as if the actual course of events happened differently than written. Which will just confuse the every loving crap out of people OOCly.

It wasn’t a prolonged artillery attack, it was a coupled shells to force to separatists to respond. Then it became a prolonged attack, and only then. To make the actual starting of it murky.

IC I still hold to the fact that you were shelling Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian soil and that my response was justified. OOC dunno don’t care.

Not very murky when it was video recorded.

ICly thats a propaganda stance and fine. Just I don't want players writing posts based on incorrect perceptions of what actually happened. If players are taking a government stance despite knowing Ukraine fired first, sure. But if the player believes Ukraine fired second (false) and goes in believing this it can cause problems OOCly when they realize they just wrote one or more posts based on incorrect information of what is actually going on.

[Revlona]

It wasn’t a prolonged artillery attack, it was a coupled shells to force to separatists to respond. Then it became a prolonged attack, and only then. To make the actual starting of it murky.

IC I still hold to the fact that you were shelling Ukrainian soldiers on Ukrainian soil and that my response was justified. OOC dunno don’t care.

Not very murky when it was video recorded.

ICly thats a propaganda stance and fine. Just I don't want players writing posts based on incorrect perceptions of what actually happened. If players are taking a government stance despite knowing Ukraine fired first, sure. But if the player believes Ukraine fired second (false) and goes in believing this it can cause problems OOCly when they realize they just wrote one or more posts based on incorrect information of what is actually going on.

I’m pretty sure the recording was of the attack on Russian soil not the beggining of the separatist attack.

This was from the GAs post regarding it.

“Both Separatist and Ukrainian sources accused each other of attacks which presaged a large Ukrainian response during the night and early hours of the morning. “

[Imperialisium]

Not very murky when it was video recorded.

ICly thats a propaganda stance and fine. Just I don't want players writing posts based on incorrect perceptions of what actually happened. If players are taking a government stance despite knowing Ukraine fired first, sure. But if the player believes Ukraine fired second (false) and goes in believing this it can cause problems OOCly when they realize they just wrote one or more posts based on incorrect information of what is actually going on.

I’m pretty sure the recording was of the attack on Russian soil not the beggining of the separatist attack.

This was from the GAs post regarding it.

“Both Separatist and Ukrainian sources accused each other of attacks which presaged a large Ukrainian response during the night and early hours of the morning. “

Except Ukraine was recorded as attacking first, regardless. GA even supports this by not changing who actually shot first. Merely showcasing how the Ukrainian government is lying to cover their actions (aka propaganda) while the Separatists are naturally defending themselves.

[Revlona]

I’m pretty sure the recording was of the attack on Russian soil not the beggining of the separatist attack.

This was from the GAs post regarding it.

“Both Separatist and Ukrainian sources accused each other of attacks which presaged a large Ukrainian response during the night and early hours of the morning. “

Except Ukraine was recorded as attacking first, regardless. GA even supports this by not changing who actually shot first. Merely showcasing how the Ukrainian government is lying to cover their actions (aka propaganda) while the Separatists are naturally defending themselves.

Ok

I’m also not really sure how you can have footage of someone “firing first” when it’d really just be footage of them firing with a times stamp.

That’s why I think it’s fair when people take the footage with a grain of salt and still support Ukraine who is being invaded.

[Union Princes]

This entire time I thought Russia attacked first given their massive offensive into Ukraine

[Hanovereich]

I still don’t get who attacked who. Probably because there’s apparently no difference now between propaganda and canon.

[Segmentia]

I mean it's geopolitics. Right and wrong don't really matter, just depends on what side your nation wants to support in whatever conflict it might be, and how your government bends the truth to get popular support for their actions.

[Revlona]

I still don’t get who attacked who. Probably because there’s apparently no difference now between propaganda and canon.

Ukraine incited an incident which led to both sides (Ukrainian and Seperatists) firing on eachother in the Donbas. To try and restablish the status quo Russia begin artillery strikes on Ukrainian troops in the Donbas. Ukraine responded with counter artillery fire against the Russian artillery. Because this was in Russia, Russia took this as an act of war and invaded.

[Union Princes]

So Russia escalated the conflict and then invaded. Sounds like they are the aggressors here

[Revlona]

So Russia escalated the conflict and then invaded. Sounds like they are the aggressors here

I should mention that the Russian artillery strikes were in response to a full blow military attack by Ukraine into the Donbas to try and end the rebellion.

[Antimersia]

TFW Russia is totally justified and acting to defend itself but still considered to be in open aggression.

comes with the territory of being a superpower. when you are the big buff guy, even if the little guy punches you first, hitting them back will always look like a bully picking on a little guy.