HOTB Debates/Events Thread

[Meretica]

Robinette took a deep breath, half-tempted to ignore the question and instead continue on his anti-Turner tirade. He relented, choosing to recall the policies that he and his campaign had developed. "I intend to cut the pay of bureaucrats, Congressmen, Senators, and other federal officials. We will use these funds to instead spend more on closing the missile gap and create an American Space Agency. I promise that we will have a man on the Moon by 1969, and we will have the first man in space by 1961. America must not stay behind the Red Chinese of the Soviets or any other group. I believe that the use of nuclear weapons should remain as a last resort, and I will work to move back the hands of the Doomsday Clock. Regarding North Korea, I believe that the Peninsula should host a democratic election to determine what kind of government the people support: either a communist hellhole or a thriving democracy. In Vietnam, we should use non-nuclear bombs to destroy Viet-Cong leadership and restore order to Indochina. This will prevent further American deaths in Vietnam while maximizing our potential harm to the communist regime. I believe that if we adopt policies that show we will not fire first and that we will use mutually assured destruction, we will convince the communists to come to the table and find a way for our world to live in peace. I also support the unification of NATO and SEATO into one global alliance so that we might make a better, more united stance against communism. Our allies in the South Pacific are extremely valuable. It also makes sense as it will cut costs for all nations involved: instead of participating in two alliances with similar goals, we can partake in one, unified alliance and work on those goals together. We can spend those additional funds in other areas as well, preferably missile production or education. Under my administration, we will stay ahead in the Space Race and the Cold War while also taking care of our people at home. I also support the establishment of the Peace Corps, which would be made up of volunteers from all over the world and funded by donations from citizens and countries alike. The Corps would provide international aid and economic development assistance to struggling communities and countries globally, but especially in communist countries. I would begin this Corps in Korea and Vietnam to prove that it can work before moving across the rest of the world."

[Emazia]

"Were I no gentleman, I would take you around back and beat you for your insidious insidious remarks, you two-timing snake," Robinette seethed.

Paul Paola: BEEEEEEEP "You have responded. Now, next question, what is your plan to battle communism in the Eastern World?"

"The missile gap has shown the failures of the Republican administration, and I will ensure that it is closed. Let it be clear that we will resist communism in its all forms and maintain the power of capitalism across the shining shores of the Earth. We will bring prosperity, if not by the market, then by the gun. Let those in North Vietnam here that we will not take their aggressions standing down.

The American people, just like in the Second World War, shall march on against the enemies of democracy! I will give them their retribution, from every damn jungle to the skies of Hanoi, they will feel American might and steel over their skies! I will keep an air-focused strategy and bomb them down to hell, to ensure that we don't have to put American lives at risk.

Many of our opponents look for appeasement, look for disarmament. Just look at [not-Henry Wallace] and all the stupid things he's said over the years. Let it be clear that I oppose any Chamberlain-style appeasement of the communist bloc. I will lead this nation into military victory after military victory against the Red Menace. I will mobilise the American military industry to become the world's greatest supplier, and make a trade surplus greater than any nation has ever seen! I will make jobs, and fight communism at the same time!

Let it be clear that I will fight, with the sweat on my brow, with every bone, and arm and leg in my body, that communism will be defeated by the end of this century. Victory to America, and victory to freedom!"

[Louisianan]

Paul Paola: "You may now have five minutes to respond to each other's answers."

[Meretica]

"It's nice to see that both Turner and I agree on closing the missile gap and oppose appeasement, but I must question his determination to actively pursue total war when that is exactly what we should be avoiding. If we were to adopt Turner's policies, I have full confidence that nuclear war would erupt between America and Russia. No lives would be spared. That would be the fate of humankind: extinction by our own hands rather than the hand of God. I would rather contain and eradicate communism over time than send thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of our boys to their deaths. It is also folly to pretend that anyone can guarantee victory after victory after victory with no losses. Even Napoleon, Hannibal, and General Jackson have suffered defeats, have they not? Do not mistake this as defeatism: it is merely being realistic. Turner cannot promise you that every outcome will be a victory just as a doctor cannot promise you that medicine will always cure you. We can have faith, hope, trust, but that does not make it so. While I think that Turner's patriotism is admirable, we must be practical and realistic, not warmongers determined to send Americans to their deaths. Regardless, I promise you that the Soviet and Chinese regimes will fall by 1990. I also promise you that the crises we see in Cuba and Vietnam shall be over by 1965. The Korean conflict shall end, hopefully, by 1970. I make these promises because I understand what steps we must take in the fields of economics and military spending to do this. So long as we outspend the Soviets, they will not be able to catch up. Eventually, they'll bankrupt themselves, have no money left to spend, and be forced to surrender without substantial loss of life."

[Emazia]

"Am I listening to Governor Wilson-Carter or Vice President Wallace? While his promises are admirable, and I certainly agree with his timescale, but I must ask how a man can criticise me for so-called 'fearmongering' over people like [not-Malcolm X] who literally want to secede from these United States to build their own black ethnostate, then fearmongers about me wanting to bring the human race to its extinction. What hypocrisy. What savagery.

And yet I expected no less from you. You say that you do not support appeasement, and yet in the past you have made statements in support of it. The Great Compromised Wilson-Carter strikes again - whichever way the wind blows! You said that 'communists and capitalists should find a middle ground', for God's sake! What hypocrisy! What lies! You have, throughout this debate, accused me of lying to the American people, yet it is you who has lied to the American people.

This is what is the final stage of liberalism is, in terms of foreign appeasement. Maybe you ought to change your name to Chamberlain, Governor? And let the Soviets have all of Western Europe? You talk of winning this Cold War, when you do not even want to win it in the first place. Look at how a man's principles collapse when he sees power, feigning toughness against men who he really wants to compromise with.

Maybe, indeed, you are the 'Great Compromiser', but with Nikita Khruschev. First you would surrender Vietnam, then Korea, Cuba, and finally these United States! Look at yourself in shame, as you seek to tear down what red-blooded American men have fought and died for, to compromise, and coexist with those who hate freedom, who hate democracy and who would destroy the prosperity of the world. You are an idiot if you think we can compromise with the Soviets, especially on such a grand scale as you have said.

And let us remember, that in the past you have also called for unilateral nuclear disarmament, calling for the US to 'decommission' our nuclear warheads. In fact, as it turns out, you do not merely deny the missile gap, you think that it's a good thing! You want America to throw out all of our nuclear weapons, to leave us with one hand tied behind our backs. Not only that, but it would also eviscerate American jobs, while harming our foreign relations significantly. To disarm would be political and economic suicide, plain and simple.

Your hypocrisy, your flip-flopping, is saddening but not unexpected of a career politician as yourself. The principles of the career politician, no matter his claimed political affiliation, are threefold. Power first, money second and the people last. That is your real campaign slogan.

I'll keep myself short: if you vote for me, you get a patriotic, principled defender of common sense. If you vote for Wilson-Carter, you get a lying, hypocritical and elitist career politician who supports unilateral nuclear disarmament and appeasement with the Soviets."

[Louisianan]

Paul Paola: "Since both of you have touched on the practicality and dangers of foreign affairs, seldom is there mention of the economics of foreign affairs, we should consider the issue of trade for instance, what would you do to ensure that our allies are willing to accept larger trade deficits to facilitate our trade surplus, instead of adopting protectionist policies?"

[Emazia]

Paul Paola: "Since both of you have touched on the practicality and dangers of foreign affairs, seldom is there mention of the economics of foreign affairs, we should consider the issue of trade for instance, what would you do to ensure that our allies are willing to accept larger trade deficits to facilitate our trade surplus, instead of adopting protectionist policies?"

"Well, when it comes to trading with developed economies like the UK, France, West Germany, I think we can reasonably maintain trade parity. I don't believe anyone is particularly against that, on either side. We must accept trade parity with other developed nations, and work to expand that trade, but on equal terms. When it comes to them, I support a policy of free but fair trade, that is good for our unions, that is good for our businesses and that is good for our country.

But I think, on the balance of it, there is a lot of money to be made trading with developing economies, and I think that's where we can focus on things. We have a lot of leverage with them, and I think we should use it. More than that, I think we can significantly improve the quality of life there the American way, that is, by the free market.

Now, to explain my plan for this, I must explain the difference between our economy and theirs. A developing economy is one whose economy primarily relies on the direct extraction of resources: oil, bananas, iron, etc. A developed economy is one whose economy primarily relies on either the refinement of goods, such as the production of steel or automobiles, or on services, such as construction. Now, America's economic needs in the secondary sector can be filled through increased extraction here, which I do intend to push, or through imports from those countries.

Now, let's say we do both: increase extraction and push imports so that we can produce more consumer and military goods, which is my plan. Now, what can we export back? We can export back firstly these refined goods - there won't be much to begin with, but as these countries develop, they will gain consumer markets, without necessarily the industries to support them. And so America can export, export, export. They'll be wearing American clothes, driving American cars and watching American films. But we can also export services. Now these countries, they need a bit of investment, a bit of push here and there. That's where we come in. We provide vital services such as roads and hospitals, through our private companies, and bring over skilled American labourers for temporary periods to enrich our country and improve their standards of living in a mutually reciprocal trade.

Through these, we will gain new economic partners, which will import our goods and services, while providing essential raw materials for American industry to function. More than that, we will also gain influence over these nations and enrich them, preventing them from slipping to communism. In short, among these nations, we will build an economic bloc wherein we export finished goods and services with favourable terms in exchange for raw materials. And through that economic bloc, we will become richer, we will become more powerful and we will prevent the spread of communism. It will create American jobs greater than we have seen before."

[Meretica]

Paul Paola: "Since both of you have touched on the practicality and dangers of foreign affairs, seldom is there mention of the economics of foreign affairs, we should consider the issue of trade for instance, what would you do to ensure that our allies are willing to accept larger trade deficits to facilitate our trade surplus, instead of adopting protectionist policies?"

"I firmly believe that we should only bar nations from trading with America under extreme circumstances, with exceptions made for nations under communist influence. I believe that if we continue to trade goods with the Soviets and Red China, their citizens will realize the weaknesses of their economic and political system and rise against it. I believe, similarly to Mr. Turner, that as many goods as possible should be based solely in America, but I also believe that a few small protective tariffs should be established to help American businesses. America has the ability to produce cars, steel, oil-- we just have to take a chance to do it. We also need to work towards establishing long-term peace in the Middle East so that if our oil reserves run dry or become too expensive to profit off of, we can buy cheap oil to keep America running. In some cases, green energy would also be a benefit to the global economy, especially in the north and southwest. Using solar panels and nuclear technology, America has a chance to leap ahead internationally on energy production. I would like to see America reach a point where we can sell additional energy to our neighbors, Canada and Mexico. We can put these profits to good use by further investing in agriculture, education, and defense, thus strengthening our economy and our nation as a whole.

Regarding the obtainment of goods, I do believe that we should work with Africa and South America to invest in their economies and prevent potential communist infiltration. Venezuela and Brazil are of particular interest to me. I think that by creating important trade deals with South America and Africa, we will be able to strengthen SEATO (or, as I would prefer, unite SEATO and NATO into one coalition and bring them into that). I would also like to find economic ways to strengthen the United Nations, which would in turn strengthen America's influence. If there was, perhaps, a way that we could peacefully create a capitalist intervention in Soviet Russia or Red China in a way that could not be vetoed, the UN could assist in the battle against communism."

[Louisianan]

Paul Paola: You have time to respond to each other's answers."

[Meretica]

Paul Paola: You have time to respond to each other's answers."

"I believe that there are many cases that Senator Turner and I see eye to eye or even agree upon, but I believe that we have different ways of handling these cases or going forward. I think that there are some things that I believe and that there are some things that he believes that we can meld together to create one bright, optimistic future for America. I think that there are certain important points that he has missed in his plans, such as what non-material items we could sell to foreign nations in exchange for goods, services, or money. There are other gaps in his plan. Where would we pull funds from to begin the setup of his proposed system? I have laid out in both my domestic and foreign trade policies exactly where our starting amount of money would be coming from. Mr. Turner can only raise taxes on the poor so much before he and his allies must pay a larger share out of their own wealth to keep this system going."

[Emazia]

Paul Paola: You have time to respond to each other's answers."

"I believe that there are many cases that Senator Turner and I see eye to eye or even agree upon, but I believe that we have different ways of handling these cases or going forward. I think that there are some things that I believe and that there are some things that he believes that we can meld together to create one bright, optimistic future for America. I think that there are certain important points that he has missed in his plans, such as what non-material items we could sell to foreign nations in exchange for goods, services, or money. There are other gaps in his plan. Where would we pull funds from to begin the setup of his proposed system? I have laid out in both my domestic and foreign trade policies exactly where our starting amount of money would be coming from. Mr. Turner can only raise taxes on the poor so much before he and his allies must pay a larger share out of their own wealth to keep this system going."

Turner simply stood there in disbelief, shaking his head as his opponent spoke.

"Governor, your ignorance is truly astounding." He said calmly, continuing to shake his head.

"Let me explain to you now those so-called gaps, in case you didn't get it the first time around. Firstly, you say what non-material items we could sell to foreign nations. I have already pointed out that my plans would include the provision of services in exchange for goods, such as construction or health. But I also mentioned material items, such as consumer goods including automobiles - which would bolster our strong automobile industry, which you claim is non-existent in a very poor and outright false claim.

Now, as for your other concern about where the money would come from. I think we could look at a decent amount from the private sector as a public-private partnership, but of course we would also contribute a certain amount, both in negotiating the necessary conditions for our plan in other nations and in monetary compensation, for which in return we will get a portion of the profits acquired from this scheme."