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Sarderia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:13 am

Of course. Loyalty is in the end relative, because they can be bought, persuaded with money and power, et cetera. To be honest, I've considered taking a more diplomatic approach of reform in regards to my character as well - he managed to transform a former feudal dominion into an actually working Socialist state, and the principle is, if it can be done on a smaller scale, why couldn't it be implemented on a larger scale.
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Bentus
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Postby Bentus » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:17 am

Sarderia wrote:snip.


Ooh, that sounds pretty wicked. Could do a bit of both? Play the diplomatic, soft power game while running some hostile actions against opponents covertly. Some money could even get funnelled into more aggressive groups and kick off some proxy wars, which eventually might spill into a larger conflict if the revolutionaries find themselves with the upper hand?
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The Empire of Tau
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Empire of Tau » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:19 am

Bentus wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:-snip-


On top of that, all the great houses and SAS factions are likely jostling for influence and power behind the scenes. The loyalists would hardly be a united front and I could even see internal conflicts cropping up if one party or another saw it as advantageous. Though I also don't think the Reds were ever meant to be able to last in a slug fest against the whole Imperium.

There's good reason why my character is a highly experienced guerilla commander.

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G-Tech Corporation
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Democratic Socialists

Postby G-Tech Corporation » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:25 am

The Empire of Tau wrote:
Bentus wrote:
On top of that, all the great houses and SAS factions are likely jostling for influence and power behind the scenes. The loyalists would hardly be a united front and I could even see internal conflicts cropping up if one party or another saw it as advantageous. Though I also don't think the Reds were ever meant to be able to last in a slug fest against the whole Imperium.

There's good reason why my character is a highly experienced guerilla commander.


I'm curious how guerilla warfare will be conducted in this future. It should be very interesting, with orbital weaponry in play.
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Union Princes
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Union Princes » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:29 am

He's gonna be a tunnel rat, most likely
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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:38 am

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
The Empire of Tau wrote:There's good reason why my character is a highly experienced guerilla commander.


I'm curious how guerilla warfare will be conducted in this future. It should be very interesting, with orbital weaponry in play.

I'm gonna guess it'll work through REALLY deep bunkers and outside backers preventing the destruction of the planet.

Kinda like IRL in that case.
Last edited by Remnants of Exilvania on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ex-NE Panzerwaffe Hauptmann; War Merit Cross & Knights Cross of the Iron Cross
Woodhouse Loyalist & Inactive BLITZKRIEG Foreign Relations Minister
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Sarderia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:40 am

Bentus wrote:
Sarderia wrote:snip.


Ooh, that sounds pretty wicked. Could do a bit of both? Play the diplomatic, soft power game while running some hostile actions against opponents covertly. Some money could even get funnelled into more aggressive groups and kick off some proxy wars, which eventually might spill into a larger conflict if the revolutionaries find themselves with the upper hand?

Most likely. First posts would have him contacting people like Irene or Polan to get a feel of what they're trying to do. But I guess he would be more cautious regarding funding proxy wars, since although his dominions are quite smaller compared to others, some people might recognize him as a hardline socialist.
    So comrades, come rally,
    For this is the time and place!
    The Internationale,
    Unites the Human Race!

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Lunas Legion
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Lunas Legion » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:40 am

Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.
Last edited by William Slim Wed Dec 14 1970 10:35 pm, edited 35 times in total.

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Bentus
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Postby Bentus » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:40 am

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
G-Tech Corporation wrote:
I'm curious how guerilla warfare will be conducted in this future. It should be very interesting, with orbital weaponry in play.

I'm gonna guess it'll work through REALLY deep bunkers and outside backers preventing the destruction of the planet.


I wonder if those shield generators play a role? Serves as a useful technobabble to keep ground warfare relevant if planets can just neutralizer the worst of a bombardment.
- - Bentus
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1 2 3 >4< 5
Possible threat.
Forces active in a warzone.
At peace.
Member of The Galactic Economic and Security Organization

NationStates Belongs to All, Gameplay, Roleplay, and Nonplay Alike
Every NationStates Community Member, from Raider Kings to Brony Queens Make Us Awesome.
"Though I fly through the valley of Death, I shall fear no evil. For I am at the Karman line and climbing." - Bentusi SABRE motto

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Bolslania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bolslania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:43 am

The scary part is that even though there are several loyalist I trust absolutely none of them :p

But also I don't have the manpower to completely destroy a communist revolt
SDP Candidate Bonifác Kočí has won the elections, succeeding Margaret DeFrey as President. Kočí promises a revamped education and healthcare system amongst complaints of inefficiency.

Basically a Technocratic Constitutional Republic that encompasses all of western Europe + Baltics and Scandinavia, set in 2050's


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Astarten
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Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Astarten » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:45 am

Bolslania wrote:The scary part is that even though there are several loyalist I trust absolutely none of them :p

But also I don't have the manpower to completely destroy a communist revolt


The politics and the court intrigue is gonna makes this a space Game of Thrones I bet :D

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The Empire of Tau
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Empire of Tau » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:47 am

Lunas Legion wrote:Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.

Polan understands the vital importance of popular support, understanding the complex nature of the socioeconomic and political ramifications of waging a guerrilla war as seen in his career as a fighter and then commander, and as a socialist who genuine cares for the concerns of the people, will make great efforts in ensuring that popular support will be with his movement.
Last edited by The Empire of Tau on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:47 am

Bentus wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:I'm gonna guess it'll work through REALLY deep bunkers and outside backers preventing the destruction of the planet.


I wonder if those shield generators play a role? Serves as a useful technobabble to keep ground warfare relevant if planets can just neutralizer the worst of a bombardment.

But then it really isn't guerilla warfare anymore, is it now?

Or atleast not for the defender.

Then it's pretty much standard warfare, planetary landing and all that.

You only get into the position of having to wage that kind of warfare once you've lost the open war, in which case you likely wouldn't be in control of said shield generators anymore, those likely having been taken or destroyed by invading ground troops.

Lunas Legion wrote:Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.


I think he means just glassing the entire planet, no popular support on the ground gonna help that.

I however assume that, much like IRL, just nuking Vietnam or Afghanistan probably wouldn't fly too well with the larger Empire and there'd prolly be pro Guerilla backers closeby, keeping neutrality as well as not allowing full control of a planet's orbit so they can funnel material support in there or something.
Ex-NE Panzerwaffe Hauptmann; War Merit Cross & Knights Cross of the Iron Cross
Woodhouse Loyalist & Inactive BLITZKRIEG Foreign Relations Minister
REST IN PEACE HERZOG FRIEDRICH VON WÜRTTEMBERG! † 9. May 2018
Furchtlos und Treu dem Hause Württemberg für alle Ewigkeit!

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Sarderia
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Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48 am

Lunas Legion wrote:Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.

Space is a tad more difficult, especially if space travel is regulated to the point that you must identify yourself before docking, etc. Conventional guerillas is effective and easy because you can just lure the enemy and fight a protractive war in the interior, on top of performing terrorism, etc.
Bolslania wrote:The scary part is that even though there are several loyalist I trust absolutely none of them :p

But also I don't have the manpower to completely destroy a communist revolt

We're not playing alone :p it's a Game of Thrones after all, but in space, might isn't the center point of this game, but politics is
    So comrades, come rally,
    For this is the time and place!
    The Internationale,
    Unites the Human Race!

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Imperialisium
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Founded: Apr 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Imperialisium » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:49 am

Actually working
Socialist state

Gonna have to pick one. XD
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Sarderia
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Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:52 am

Imperialisium wrote:Actually working
Socialist state

Gonna have to pick one. XD

Can I have both? Because there's several IRL already...
    So comrades, come rally,
    For this is the time and place!
    The Internationale,
    Unites the Human Race!

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Revlona
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Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby Revlona » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:53 am

Sarderia wrote:
Imperialisium wrote:Actually working
Socialist state

Gonna have to pick one. XD

Can I have both? Because there's several IRL already...


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Astarten
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Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Astarten » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:54 am

Imperialisium wrote:Actually working
Socialist state

Gonna have to pick one. XD


Btw OP. Isit alright if I create an app for Prince Romeran?

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Bolslania
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bolslania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:54 am

Sarderia wrote:
Lunas Legion wrote:Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.

Space is a tad more difficult, especially if space travel is regulated to the point that you must identify yourself before docking, etc. Conventional guerillas is effective and easy because you can just lure the enemy and fight a protractive war in the interior, on top of performing terrorism, etc.
Bolslania wrote:The scary part is that even though there are several loyalist I trust absolutely none of them :p

But also I don't have the manpower to completely destroy a communist revolt

We're not playing alone :p it's a Game of Thrones after all, but in space, might isn't the center point of this game, but politics is


Yeah but politics isn't gonna protect me from a communist revolt if it happens.

If for some reason I fail to keep my people happy or a revolutionary gets a start in my territory, it'll be hard for me to fight them
SDP Candidate Bonifác Kočí has won the elections, succeeding Margaret DeFrey as President. Kočí promises a revamped education and healthcare system amongst complaints of inefficiency.

Basically a Technocratic Constitutional Republic that encompasses all of western Europe + Baltics and Scandinavia, set in 2050's


If you have questions/comments/concerns about how I am conducting myself on a forum/RP, please let me know and I will correct my behavior, thanks!

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Imperialisium
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Posts: 11546
Founded: Apr 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Imperialisium » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:57 am

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
Bentus wrote:
I wonder if those shield generators play a role? Serves as a useful technobabble to keep ground warfare relevant if planets can just neutralizer the worst of a bombardment.

But then it really isn't guerilla warfare anymore, is it now?

Or atleast not for the defender.

Then it's pretty much standard warfare, planetary landing and all that.

You only get into the position of having to wage that kind of warfare once you've lost the open war, in which case you likely wouldn't be in control of said shield generators anymore, those likely having been taken or destroyed by invading ground troops.

Lunas Legion wrote:Ooor just don't change anything?

Guerrilla warfare relies on popular support to hide the guerrillas. Having orbital weaponry doesn't improve one's ability to distinguish civilians and guerrillas. Bombings, terror attacks, ambushes etc will still probably be the name of the game on the ground.


I think he means just glassing the entire planet, no popular support on the ground gonna help that.

I however assume that, much like IRL, just nuking Vietnam or Afghanistan probably wouldn't fly too well with the larger Empire and there'd prolly be pro Guerilla backers closeby, keeping neutrality as well as not allowing full control of a planet's orbit so they can funnel material support in there or something.


There is the issue of certain weapons feeding back from contact with active shields. Shooting a laser at a shield may cause a chain reaction which damages your ship due feedback. Ballistics and kinetic from a ship may eventually collapse a smaller shield but a fully kitted out military base with redundancy generators (or multiple ones powering the same shield) may just be a prodigious waste of time.

As such land war is relevant just in regards to speedily dealing with shielded enemy positions.


There is also the value of the planet themselves and the population. The Galactic Imperium isn’t generally so cold as to commit genocide against its own civilians through sheer collateral damage. That would be an extreme situation for the Imperium to just consign an entire planets population as collateral. As for the planet itself, a naturally inhabitable world is more valuable than anything, sure terraforming exists but it’s costly, prolonged, and still requires specific parameters to work. The Imperium would prefer to expend millions of troops (as human lives are replaceable) than automatically resort to collapsing a worlds ecology for expedience.
Last edited by Imperialisium on Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sarderia
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Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sarderia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:59 am

Revolutionary design: a spaceship covered with mirrors. Lasers take an L.
    So comrades, come rally,
    For this is the time and place!
    The Internationale,
    Unites the Human Race!

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Imperialisium
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Posts: 11546
Founded: Apr 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Imperialisium » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:00 am

Astarten wrote:
Imperialisium wrote:Actually working
Socialist state

Gonna have to pick one. XD


Btw OP. Isit alright if I create an app for Prince Romeran?


I would need to see what you had in mind for the character. As Romeran and his twin brother are established as being foppish.
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Astarten
Bureaucrat
 
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Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Astarten » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:04 am

Imperialisium wrote:I would need to see what you had in mind for the character. As Romeran and his twin brother are established as being foppish.


Ah so they already have established personality traits. Alright then no worries I'll just app for another faction and character then :blush:

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Remnants of Exilvania
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Postby Remnants of Exilvania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:09 am

Imperialisium wrote:
Remnants of Exilvania wrote:But then it really isn't guerilla warfare anymore, is it now?

Or atleast not for the defender.

Then it's pretty much standard warfare, planetary landing and all that.

You only get into the position of having to wage that kind of warfare once you've lost the open war, in which case you likely wouldn't be in control of said shield generators anymore, those likely having been taken or destroyed by invading ground troops.



I think he means just glassing the entire planet, no popular support on the ground gonna help that.

I however assume that, much like IRL, just nuking Vietnam or Afghanistan probably wouldn't fly too well with the larger Empire and there'd prolly be pro Guerilla backers closeby, keeping neutrality as well as not allowing full control of a planet's orbit so they can funnel material support in there or something.


There is the issue of certain weapons feeding back from contact with active shields. Shooting a laser at a shield may cause a chain reaction which damages your ship due feedback. Ballistics and kinetic from a ship may eventually collapse a smaller shield but a fully kitted out military base with redundancy generators (or multiple ones powering the same shield) may just be a prodigious waste of time.

As such land war is relevant just in regards to speedily dealing with shielded enemy positions.


There is also the value of the planet themselves and the population. The Galactic Imperium isn’t generally so cold as to commit genocide against its own civilians through sheer collateral damage. That would be an extreme situation for the Imperium to just consign an entire planets population as collateral. As for the planet itself, a naturally inhabitable world is more valuable than anything, sure terraforming exists but it’s costly, prolonged, and still requires specific parameters to work. The Imperium would prefer to expend millions of troops (as human lives are replaceable) than automatically resort to collapsing a worlds ecology for expedience.

As I thought then.

Though I assume shields are quite easy to detect/recognize so they really wouldn't fit into a guerilla commander's tactics...unless as bait.
Ex-NE Panzerwaffe Hauptmann; War Merit Cross & Knights Cross of the Iron Cross
Woodhouse Loyalist & Inactive BLITZKRIEG Foreign Relations Minister
REST IN PEACE HERZOG FRIEDRICH VON WÜRTTEMBERG! † 9. May 2018
Furchtlos und Treu dem Hause Württemberg für alle Ewigkeit!

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Imperialisium
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Posts: 11546
Founded: Apr 17, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Imperialisium » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:11 am

Remnants of Exilvania wrote:
Imperialisium wrote:
There is the issue of certain weapons feeding back from contact with active shields. Shooting a laser at a shield may cause a chain reaction which damages your ship due feedback. Ballistics and kinetic from a ship may eventually collapse a smaller shield but a fully kitted out military base with redundancy generators (or multiple ones powering the same shield) may just be a prodigious waste of time.

As such land war is relevant just in regards to speedily dealing with shielded enemy positions.


There is also the value of the planet themselves and the population. The Galactic Imperium isn’t generally so cold as to commit genocide against its own civilians through sheer collateral damage. That would be an extreme situation for the Imperium to just consign an entire planets population as collateral. As for the planet itself, a naturally inhabitable world is more valuable than anything, sure terraforming exists but it’s costly, prolonged, and still requires specific parameters to work. The Imperium would prefer to expend millions of troops (as human lives are replaceable) than automatically resort to collapsing a worlds ecology for expedience.

As I thought then.

Though I assume shields are quite easy to detect/recognize so they really wouldn't fit into a guerilla commander's tactics...unless as bait.


Correct. Shields are able to be easily picked up through various scanning or analytical equipment.
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