New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[G-Tech Corporation]

Family posts take a lot from me. Anywho Andrew’s disillusionments with liberalism coming in 5e next post.

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

[Alaroma]

Family posts take a lot from me. Anywho Andrew’s disillusionments with liberalism coming in 5e next post.

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

Difference between practical policy and personal ideology unfortunately.

[Joohan]

Suddenly 80% of your population dies in a week (black plague mortality and incubation (8 days)) . There is no time to think about it. No one would be working. They would all die. If a sick person wasn't moved they would die. You would eat lunch with your friends one day and then you would be in paradise the next. If the sick were not separated you would be dead. No one would be able to work. To prevent starvation, the granaries would be opened, no one would be working under these conditions. You would be lucky if there was someone to milk the cow if more than half the population was dead.

If this is a pneumonic variety of plague, the rate if people are left alone is near 100% fatality.

If you read about the Greek Plague in Athens, the first to die were the physicians. 25% of the population. The Spartans were terrified of the funeral pyres, just as they would be terrified of the bodies piling up in Varna.

The people would be on their knees asking god for deliverance. The priests would be out in force so that the people on their knees would be asking god or whatever saviour they could find for help. They would then turn on the priests who would not be able to help them.

Once they got their bearings, they would have no idea what caused it and they would seek scapegoats. Foreigners, witches, people who lived under the bridge, the plague victims themselves. They might burn the bodies or insist on putting people in deep graves.

The opening of the granaries to set up defenses would happen in the other cities. They would not hesitate to keep people out.

Commons, you're going too fast. I only used the Justinian plague as a basis for scope, that being ( at most ), 20% of your national population could be wiped out by the end of the plague. This, however, is not bubonic plague - as I have already mentioned. The Nestos League is not yet being ravaged, people ( no not even the oligarchy ) are not yet fully aware of how widespread this is. Villages aren't disappearing off the map yet - you're one post in my guy and you've already put an entire city on lockdown. Not everyone is getting sick all at once, and even for those who do, statistically, most will recover. A village isn't going to get wiped out in a week - a year though, maybe.

People today, with all our means and scientific knowledge, still don't take seriously the calls by medical professionals to take necessary precaution against pandemic. Imagine then, how much more uncooperative the recently civilized and still very superstitious people of the Nestos League are. You can very well explain to the unwashed masses why people needed to be separated for their own good, and a great many will accept the word of an authority - but a lot of people also won't. People don't want to see their loved one's taken away from them, possibly never to be seen again - compound this with the fact that Varna is now swarming with gangs who essentially are stealing the sick away from their families and placing them into a veritable charnel house. Of course people are going to get violent.

Opening up the granaries puts food on the table, but it doesn't put money into one's pocket. Farms and livestock still need to be attended to, renters still need to pay landlords, merchants can't maintain their trade if they're stuck in a single city and not allowed to see clients. Man does not live by bread alone. At this time, in this place, people need to work in order to survive - and a quarantine is preventing them, adding yet more fuel to the fires of revolt.

The plague is not a challenge for you to overcome, or an enemy for you to beat - there isn't some secret to making it go away. This is a struggle for you to survive. Sociology isn't so much a science, as it is educated gambling. Commons, you don't know what responses will be elicited from your actions, you can only make educated guesses. Bad and horrible things await you in your future Commons, but the league, in one shape or another, can survive. Prepare for the worst, and you'll be pleasantly surprised when something else happens.

[UniversalCommons]

Suddenly 80% of your population dies in a week (black plague mortality and incubation (8 days)) . There is no time to think about it. No one would be working. They would all die. If a sick person wasn't moved they would die. You would eat lunch with your friends one day and then you would be in paradise the next. If the sick were not separated you would be dead. No one would be able to work. To prevent starvation, the granaries would be opened, no one would be working under these conditions. You would be lucky if there was someone to milk the cow if more than half the population was dead.

If this is a pneumonic variety of plague, the rate if people are left alone is near 100% fatality.

If you read about the Greek Plague in Athens, the first to die were the physicians. 25% of the population. The Spartans were terrified of the funeral pyres, just as they would be terrified of the bodies piling up in Varna.

The people would be on their knees asking god for deliverance. The priests would be out in force so that the people on their knees would be asking god or whatever saviour they could find for help. They would then turn on the priests who would not be able to help them.

Once they got their bearings, they would have no idea what caused it and they would seek scapegoats. Foreigners, witches, people who lived under the bridge, the plague victims themselves. They might burn the bodies or insist on putting people in deep graves.

The opening of the granaries to set up defenses would happen in the other cities. They would not hesitate to keep people out.

Commons, you're going too fast. I only used the Justinian plague as a basis for scope, that being ( at most ), 20% of your national population could be wiped out by the end of the plague. This, however, is not bubonic plague - as I have already mentioned. The Nestos League is not yet being ravaged, people ( no not even the oligarchy ) are not yet fully aware of how widespread this is. Villages aren't disappearing off the map yet - you're one post in my guy and you've already put an entire city on lockdown. Not everyone is getting sick all at once, and even for those who do, statistically, most will recover. A village isn't going to get wiped out in a week - a year though, maybe.

People today, with all our means and scientific knowledge, still don't take seriously the calls by medical professionals to take necessary precaution against pandemic. Imagine then, how much more uncooperative the recently civilized and still very superstitious people of the Nestos League are. You can very well explain to the unwashed masses why people needed to be separated for their own good, and a great many will accept the word of an authority - but a lot of people also won't. People don't want to see their loved one's taken away from them, possibly never to be seen again - compound this with the fact that Varna is now swarming with gangs who essentially are stealing the sick away from their families and placing them into a veritable charnel house. Of course people are going to get violent.

Opening up the granaries puts food on the table, but it doesn't put money into one's pocket. Farms and livestock still need to be attended to, renters still need to pay landlords, merchants can't maintain their trade if they're stuck in a single city and not allowed to see clients. Man does not live by bread alone. At this time, in this place, people need to work in order to survive - and a quarantine is preventing them, adding yet more fuel to the fires of revolt.

The plague is not a challenge for you to overcome, or an enemy for you to beat - there isn't some secret to making it go away. This is a struggle for you to survive. Sociology isn't so much a science, as it is educated gambling. Commons, you don't know what responses will be elicited from your actions, you can only make educated guesses. Bad and horrible things await you in your future Commons, but the league, in one shape or another, can survive. Prepare for the worst, and you'll be pleasantly surprised when something else happens.

It might be good if we toned it back to the Athenian plague which is about 20%, no one new about it. I'm going too fast. I'll slow down. As one person I know said, I can write faster than I can think. I should probably spend a little time building up back story. Just as a note I have been looking at the POD points of departure list on the Alternate History Wiki https://www.alternatehistory.com/wiki/d ... =pods:pods I usually don't post things, but this has some weird enough material to be interesting.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

mfw andrew is a liberal

[G-Tech Corporation]

mfw andrew is a liberal

I'm telling you, I wrote Viktor as a villain. But everybody just be trying as hard as possible to out-evil him.

[Suriyanakhon]

Family posts take a lot from me. Anywho Andrew’s disillusionments with liberalism coming in 5e next post.

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

Patrick and Clara were probably the closest to actual liberals in political theory.

[UniversalCommons]

Once the Kraken thing is done, it should calm down a bit. Part of the bloodiness of this thing is the way you win a siege if you cannot take it directly by force is guile, treachery, and starvation. Quite a few examples of siege used hellebore or rye ergot, or dammed off the water supplies to cities. This was backed up by stealing cattle, burning the fields and other things to reduce the food supply. In response, the insiders would send out their sick, weak, young, and old to maintain their food supply. This could go on for a long time. The food supply that is fresh is usually in the form of sheep, cattle, etc. There are some wonderful ballads about stealing cattle. A castle on bedrock is really hard to take except for by treachery.

[Ralnis]

Can I get the general gist of what's going on in my neighborhood?

[Alaroma]

mfw andrew is a liberal

He was, but oh boy reality didn’t like it that much. Though for now, he believes in rights to *citizens* of the Kingdom.

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

Patrick and Clara were probably the closest to actual liberals in political theory.

I’m telling you, difference between pragmatic politics and idealistic politics.

Can I get the general gist of what's going on in my neighborhood?

Civil war near Olivia, Kingdom of Muraback established in Yemen, Aksumite clean up operations giving the Kingdom more workers to do stuff like work on projects. A plague has broken out in Europe, but that shouldn’t impact you I think.

[Joohan]

mfw andrew is a liberal

I'm telling you, I wrote Viktor as a villain. But everybody just be trying as hard as possible to out-evil him.

[Suriyanakhon]

I'm telling you, I wrote Viktor as a villain. But everybody just be trying as hard as possible to out-evil him.

You don't get to talk considering how cartoonishly evil Issac Sr. was.

[Alaroma]

I'm telling you, I wrote Viktor as a villain. But everybody just be trying as hard as possible to out-evil him.

I still consider Andrew to be a sort of, chaotic good at this rate.

[Joohan]

You don't get to talk considering how cartoonishly evil Issac Sr. was.

That's my point. You finna step up to the plate of outlandish malevolence, you best have a few genocides, or hell, at least a few tasteful hate crimes.

Viktor over here talking bout being a villain, smdh. Shut up, you wrote Lord of the Rings.

[Suriyanakhon]

You don't get to talk considering how cartoonishly evil Issac Sr. was.

That's my point. You finna step up to the plate of outlandish malevolence, you best have a few genocides, or hell, at least a few tasteful hate crimes.

Viktor over here talking bout being a villain, smdh. Shut up, you wrote Lord of the Rings.

Oh, you haven't seen anything yet. I promise you what's about to come next will make Grace look like a rational and well behaved girl.

[Joohan]

That's my point. You finna step up to the plate of outlandish malevolence, you best have a few genocides, or hell, at least a few tasteful hate crimes.

Viktor over here talking bout being a villain, smdh. Shut up, you wrote Lord of the Rings.

Oh, you haven't seen anything yet. I promise you what's about to come next will make Grace look like a rational and well behaved girl.

Really?

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

Patrick and Clara were probably the closest to actual liberals in political theory.

what do you even call olivia then?

[Alaroma]

Patrick and Clara were probably the closest to actual liberals in political theory.

what do you even call olivia then?

Overreacting at the presence of her black neighbor.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

what do you even call olivia then?

Overreacting at the presence of her black neighbor.

You'll love my next post then. Just wait - it'll be fun.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

I mean, like I said before, I wrote Clara with the intent to explore the inherent contradiction in trying to introduce an industrial ideology into an agrarian society.

Since I had no strong desire to make Clara a nationalist (how would that even work?) or a socialist, that pretty much left one option - liberal democracy and universal suffrage.

Y’all probably noticed that she was fighting her own parliament more often than not. :p

[Joohan]

I mean, like I said before, I wrote Clara with the intent to explore the inherent contradiction in trying to introduce an industrial ideology into an agrarian society.

Since I had no strong desire to make Clara a nationalist (how would that even work?) or a socialist, that pretty much left one option - liberal democracy and universal suffrage.

Y’all probably noticed that she was fighting her own parliament more often than not.

Have you tried perhaps a system combining both nationalism and socialism? Social Nationalism? There must be something that unites you blond haired blue eyed northerners...

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Have you tried perhaps a system combining both nationalism and socialism? Social Nationalism? There must be something that unites you blond haired blue eyed northerners...

Yes, although not with Clara. I don’t know if I managed to publish it in the IC thread before the war with G-Tech ramped up - it was months ago, I don’t remember - but there was a growing movement around the inherent superiority of the northern peoples.

EDIT: yes I did

Although this movement did not define the northern people’s by genetics, but rather by geography. The idea is that a lifestyle constrained by a low population density and open access to the sea fosters an inherently individualistic, honourable, and liberal mindset, which destined the northern people to be more than mere serfs like the Icedonians or the Imperials.

In a very “mission to civilise” sense, this ideology would also give justification to the capture of thralls from abroad - it’s not slavery, it’s helping foreigners appreciate the finer points of northern life! :p

At least that was the plan, and then the war blew up.

[Ralnis]

mfw andrew is a liberal

He was, but oh boy reality didn’t like it that much. Though for now, he believes in rights to *citizens* of the Kingdom.

Patrick and Clara were probably the closest to actual liberals in political theory.

I’m telling you, difference between pragmatic politics and idealistic politics.

Can I get the general gist of what's going on in my neighborhood?

Civil war near Olivia, Kingdom of Muraback established in Yemen, Aksumite clean up operations giving the Kingdom more workers to do stuff like work on projects. A plague has broken out in Europe, but that shouldn’t impact you I think.

Ok, plague is probably in the North. Muraback I don't know who they are so some info would be beneficial. Maybe I can help with Aksumite as a side job since my first post will be about expanding into Turkey for iron and coal.

[Orostan]

Family posts take a lot from me. Anywho Andrew’s disillusionments with liberalism coming in 5e next post.

Methinks Andrew is a liberal like Orostan is a liberal

You haven't seen what I'm going to do at the edges of China yet. Those government backed merchants I use to move stuff around and do economic planning have interests of their own.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Ooh, expansion into Anatolia. Bronze Age Collapse incoming.