New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[G-Tech Corporation]

Sumer has horses?

I’ve been told.

Hmm. I think that's a cascaded anachronism. Sumer got 'horses' from the Kurgan, but even the steppe cultures of the near east don't have horses in terms of warhorses/draft horses/that jazz yet. Donkeys and ponies are what you're working with, though I'm sure Ralnis simplified that to 'horses'.

[Alaroma]

Speaking of, Muraback would like to join the community of nations on the map when possible.

Where is that by the way?

Western Yemen.

[Suriyanakhon]

I've been a bit slow in reading recent posts so i'll just be periodically putting down my observations for a bit:

and Sax, where did you get tea from? I, mean, it's a pretty small thing, but tea is still exclusively located in East Asia right now.

Grace: “Well 'ello govna! Chip! Chip! Cheerio! Carry on, mate.”

[G-Tech Corporation]

Where is that by the way?

Western Yemen.

I'm not entirely sure that an NPC established in one post consisting of likely no more than a village and outliers, with a few hundred inhabitants, is exactly worth of a mapping just yet.

[Alaroma]

Western Yemen.

I'm not entirely sure that an NPC established in one post consisting of likely no more than a village and outliers, with a few hundred inhabitants, is exactly worth of a mapping just yet.

It consists of more than that rn. Also the lead up was like, 3 posts.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

I've been a bit slow in reading recent posts so i'll just be periodically putting down my observations for a bit:

and Sax, where did you get tea from? I, mean, it's a pretty small thing, but tea is still exclusively located in East Asia right now.

Floral tea made from jasmine flowers, not tea tea.

[UniversalCommons]

There are a number of things which will happen further. We have the backing of the local hands and government in addition to the plague patrols which are a pain in the ass. So we would have upper hand initially.
There were debates historically about the cause of the plague. We would create propaganda which would address the anti-contagionists. There would also be religious doctrine involved.

We would head off some of the problems by creating reasons for the actions to isolate people, public speeches, and other things. It might be hard line initially. I expect there will be attacks on the patrols. The soldiers have been activated. This is why the plague cordons are created. The other thing to remember is the black death took 8 days to kill people. It was lightning fast and utterly terrifying. This would not be a lingering malady.

Another thing which we would do is clean things thoroughly if people survived so it would be safe to come back. This would include ships and other things. With the coastal towns, it becomes possible to move people to islands where they don't have to live in a morgue, but still are isolated. This is an obvious next step. A plague colony instead of a morgue. People are isolated, but not in the same way. They can live, but not in the general population.

The other thing which will happen is a number of countermeasures will start to emerge. The first has already started, the mouthwash and better masks. I am not sure when the first antiobiotic beer (tetracycline) will appear from Egypt or the four thieves vinegar (antibacterial vinegar) emerges. We have the elements for it. It should slow the plague somewhat.

I think what might happen is that the Egyptians would die in less numbers and people would notice trying to claim they were the cause of the plague. This would lead to finding out about the beer gruel. Or I could make it even more interesting in that some of winos were drinking an herbal concoction mixed with strong wine which somehow kept more of them alive.

[G-Tech Corporation]

I hate to break it to you Universal, but this is almost certainly not a bacterial disease - the symptoms present in a manner which indicates a virus spread by bodily fluids, probably mostly bloodborne but with the ability to migrate through compromised vessels to sputum or sweat. Tetracylcline won't do jack or shit to a viral pathogen.

[Endem]

I hate to break it to you Universal, but this is almost certainly not a bacterial disease - the symptoms present in a manner which indicates a virus spread by bodily fluids, probably mostly bloodborne but with the ability to migrate through compromised vessels to sputum or sweat. Tetracylcline won't do jack or shit to a viral pathogen.

If it's really viral there really wouldn't be much to do except treating the symptoms and isolating the sick, and waiting until it goes away, since it's really hard to kill something that isn't alive to begin with

[UniversalCommons]

That is interesting because if the black plague was a bacteriological plague, yersinia pestis not a viral plague. So it would be different. Something like a fast acting Viral hemorraghic fever which causes red spots and is airborn. It would also fit with the idea that the disease was caused by evil spirits. The Egyptians and the Mesopotamians believed fever was the result of bad spirits. So it would be things like yarrow, lemonbark, willow balms, teas, rest, etc. , oils, bone broth, etc. Preventative measures like soap, masks, gloves, cleaning, isolation might help. Also an herbal antiseptic wash might work which prevented fever like what Priest Darian is putting on.

The beer would do little if anything.

[G-Tech Corporation]

That is interesting because if the black plague was a bacteriological plague, yersinia pestis not a viral plague. So it would be different. Something like a fast acting Viral hemorraghic fever which causes red spots and is airborn.

Probably not airborne - airborne diseases almost never interact with endocrine organs, and the patients don't have significant respiratory symptoms. Isolation and caution with the fluids of the infected will be the most effective countermeasures, as will physical barriers for those treating the ill. Unfortunately there's not too much that can be done to treat liver failure or kidney disease in this era - some of the patients will die due to fluid loss, which can be treated by trying to hydrate them as much as possible, but we're not anywhere being able to run dialysis or the like which would prevent successive organ failure.

[UniversalCommons]

That is interesting because if the black plague was a bacteriological plague, yersinia pestis not a viral plague. So it would be different. Something like a fast acting Viral hemorraghic fever which causes red spots and is airborn.

Probably not airborne - airborne diseases almost never interact with endocrine organs, and the patients don't have significant respiratory symptoms. Isolation and caution with the fluids of the infected will be the most effective countermeasures, as will physical barriers for those treating the ill. Unfortunately there's not too much that can be done to treat liver failure or kidney disease in this era - some of the patients will die due to fluid loss, which can be treated by trying to hydrate them as much as possible, but we're not anywhere being able to run dialysis or the like which would prevent successive organ failure.

The Mesopotamians were completely obsessed with the liver, they thought it was the seat of the soul. They had mapped the human liver. They might have some herbs for liver function.

[Joohan]

Probably not airborne - airborne diseases almost never interact with endocrine organs, and the patients don't have significant respiratory symptoms. Isolation and caution with the fluids of the infected will be the most effective countermeasures, as will physical barriers for those treating the ill. Unfortunately there's not too much that can be done to treat liver failure or kidney disease in this era - some of the patients will die due to fluid loss, which can be treated by trying to hydrate them as much as possible, but we're not anywhere being able to run dialysis or the like which would prevent successive organ failure.

The Mesopotamians were completely obsessed with the liver, they thought it was the seat of the soul. They had mapped the human liver. They might have some herbs for liver function.

Unless you can find a specific example, that's gonna be a no from me dog.

If you're set on the path that you outlined above ( acknowledging the present revolt in Varna and that affliction has spread across the league ), then go ahead and post..

I'll have an update as to the reactionin waiting

[G-Tech Corporation]

Probably not airborne - airborne diseases almost never interact with endocrine organs, and the patients don't have significant respiratory symptoms. Isolation and caution with the fluids of the infected will be the most effective countermeasures, as will physical barriers for those treating the ill. Unfortunately there's not too much that can be done to treat liver failure or kidney disease in this era - some of the patients will die due to fluid loss, which can be treated by trying to hydrate them as much as possible, but we're not anywhere being able to run dialysis or the like which would prevent successive organ failure.

The Mesopotamians were completely obsessed with the liver, they thought it was the seat of the soul. They had mapped the human liver. They might have some herbs for liver function.

The only thing I can find for known medical treatments of liver disease in Mesopotamia is cutting between the third and fourth rib to allow an excess of pus or bile to drain from around an injured liver that had taken a wound or trauma. That.... isn't likely to help a liver in the process of failing.

[UniversalCommons]

The problem with rebellion is you die within a week. There should be examples early on of people rebelling and 80% of their population dying by now. Some of the small villages would be dead. It would set an example of the importance of quarantine.

Another option is to stop treating people as criminals and instead have house visits by a pair of physicians and priests to see if they are well. Cut back on the mobs of people. Politeness under a velvet glove. Prepare houses instead of morgues for people to stay in. Prepare open information about the plague. Focus on civic virtue to follow the rules.

[Joohan]

The problem with rebellion is you die within a week. There should be examples early on of people rebelling and 80% of their population dying by now. Some of the small villages would be dead. It would set an example of the importance of quarantine.

Another option is to stop treating people as criminals and instead have house visits by a pair of physicians and priests to see if they are well. Cut back on the mobs of people. Politeness under a velvet glove. Prepare houses instead of morgues for people to stay in. Prepare open information about the plague. Focus on civic virtue to follow the rules.

This is only the very beginning of the plague Commons. I wanted for only a slow dawning realization of what it was that was occurring. Instead, your very first post was you reacting immediately and being aware of the plague.

The revolt is being caused in response to not only the quarantine, but also the fact that you've been sticking people into the charnel house you call the Temple of Body Parts.

Simply because people are dying does not mean that the peasent class is willing to give up their labors. They've farms to maintain, mouths to feed, animals to care for, work orders to meet, places to go - not being able to do their work is just as easily a death sentence for them - thus they revolt, in order to save their labor and their loved ones from the Temple of Body Parts.

Edit: there may very well be softer methods by which you can maintain quarantine, but you haven't done them this far - thus the revolt.

[Suriyanakhon]

[G-Tech Corporation]

(Image)

Tbf, if we stick lye in the infected, it will help with containment!

[Joohan]

To be fair, none of you would actually know what it was that's causing death. A week isn't long enough to cause any noticeable deformation of either the liver or kidney's, so autopsy would reveal nothing in the way of visuals.

Likewise, you can't very well analyze the blood of the victims for oxygen deficiency because... well, look at you all. The only indicator that this all might have something to do with kidney failure would be bloody urine - and even then, you'd have no way of knowing about the liver failure. Y'all don't know IC what you do OOC.

[Joohan]

(Image)

Tbf, if we stick lye in the infected, it will help with containment!

The empire's reaction to Viktor playing chemistry with their water supply

[G-Tech Corporation]

Tbf, if we stick lye in the infected, it will help with containment!

The empire's reaction to Viktor playing chemistry with their water supply

That was a joke on lye, yknow, killing people. And dead infected people don't wander around infecting others!

[Joohan]

The empire's reaction to Viktor playing chemistry with their water supply

That was a joke on lye, yknow, killing people. And dead infected people don't wander around infecting others!

Does it have to be thought?

[G-Tech Corporation]

That was a joke on lye, yknow, killing people. And dead infected people don't wander around infecting others!

Does it have to be thought?

That's a good thought. I'll put that in actually. Unscrupulous Imperial merchants would totally exploit the League's gullibility and desire for a cure to sell excess lye stocks. Then we'll have sufferers dissolving from the inside out in the House of Body Parts. Excellent RP drama.

[UniversalCommons]

Suddenly 80% of your population dies in a week (black plague mortality and incubation (8 days)) . There is no time to think about it. No one would be working. They would all die. If a sick person wasn't moved they would die. You would eat lunch with your friends one day and then you would be in paradise the next. If the sick were not separated you would be dead. No one would be able to work. To prevent starvation, the granaries would be opened, no one would be working under these conditions. You would be lucky if there was someone to milk the cow if more than half the population was dead.

If this is a pneumonic variety of plague, the rate if people are left alone is near 100% fatality.

If you read about the Greek Plague in Athens, the first to die were the physicians. 25% of the population. The Spartans were terrified of the funeral pyres, just as they would be terrified of the bodies piling up in Varna.

The people would be on their knees asking god for deliverance. The priests would be out in force so that the people on their knees would be asking god or whatever saviour they could find for help. They would then turn on the priests who would not be able to help them.

Once they got their bearings, they would have no idea what caused it and they would seek scapegoats. Foreigners, witches, people who lived under the bridge, the plague victims themselves. They might burn the bodies or insist on putting people in deep graves.

The opening of the granaries to set up defenses would happen in the other cities. They would not hesitate to keep people out.

[Alaroma]

Family posts take a lot from me. Anywho Andrew’s disillusionments with liberalism coming in 5e next post.