New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[Orostan]

I don't want to invade Hanajima, Japan is a 90% mountain series of islands with no important natural resources I couldn't get somewhere else easier. Myanmar and Korea as well as parts of southern China will absolutely be bad places for a Chinese army that likes to fight on the plains but I have a few ideas for how to mitigate that.

Like what?

The mainstay of the Chinese central government army is going to be heavy infantry. I'm thinking that I could field lighter soldiers trained to use both bows and swords for cleaning out hill tribes and other groups that can cause problems in difficult terrain. In the west where the land is clearer I will probably be able to use cavalry for that but in the south where cavalry cannot be used as effectively it makes sense to have a light and flexible anti-guerrilla force that can spread out through the hills quickly and force the locals to fight on their terms rather than allowing them to constantly ambush slower heavy infantry.

[Joohan]

By the middle of the 18th century, European empires were fielding armies in the thousands all over the continent, what are you talking about?

I thought you were talking about very early 1500s colonization, not 1750s colonization.

My point still stands, overwhelming numerical, industrial, and technological advantage didn't stop the vast majority of tribes from violently opposing European colonization.

[Orostan]

I thought you were talking about very early 1500s colonization, not 1750s colonization.

My point still stands

Native Americans were basically enslaved by colonizers or pushed off land - I haven't pushed anyone except rebels off their land and they eventually get to return anyways. Chinese expansion can't be compared to colonization because it's 1) not colonization and 2) not an unmitigated disaster for the people who find themselves living in the expanding state.

[Orostan]

Also, I've posted about Chinese central government army reorganization. Those two legions are less then half of the size of an actual roman legion and are also absolutely all of the professional standing army that China has. I may raise a third legion later or make the legions the size of actual roman legions much later but right now I think two large forces at either end of the empire is all that China needs. Next post will feature negotiations with the Xianyun concerning territorial claims on the Wei River and the first clearly marked borders in Asia.

I will also post about local military and bureaucratic organizations including the difficulties of making something of a legion out of the part-time soldiers that are the majority of China's military forces.

[Ralnis]

My point still stands

Native Americans were basically enslaved by colonizers or pushed off land - I haven't pushed anyone except rebels off their land and they eventually get to return anyways. Chinese expansion can't be compared to colonization because it's 1) not colonization and 2) not an unmitigated disaster for the people who find themselves living in the expanding state.

Actually it can be since you are expanding into lands that weren't yours before, supplanting a state as your own and even moving your own people there for the purpose of extracting resources. Colonization doesn't exactly need an ocean or outer space. Colonization is expansion itself. Plus there will be those would be a disaster on the set of expansion that is usually done by warfare.

Also, I've posted about Chinese central government army reorganization. Those two legions are less then half of the size of an actual roman legion and are also absolutely all of the professional standing army that China has. I may raise a third legion later or make the legions the size of actual roman legions much later but right now I think two large forces at either end of the empire is all that China needs. Next post will feature negotiations with the Xianyun concerning territorial claims on the Wei River and the first clearly marked borders in Asia.

I will also post about local military and bureaucratic organizations including the difficulties of making something of a legion out of the part-time soldiers that are the majority of China's military forces.

So Luther's special forces against Chinese light infantry. The showdown at Luoyang!

[Orostan]

Native Americans were basically enslaved by colonizers or pushed off land - I haven't pushed anyone except rebels off their land and they eventually get to return anyways. Chinese expansion can't be compared to colonization because it's 1) not colonization and 2) not an unmitigated disaster for the people who find themselves living in the expanding state.

Actually it can be since you are expanding into lands that weren't yours before, supplanting a state as your own and even moving your own people there for the purpose of extracting resources. Colonization doesn't exactly need an ocean or outer space. Colonization is expansion itself. Plus there will be those would be a disaster on the set of expansion that is usually done by warfare.

Also, I've posted about Chinese central government army reorganization. Those two legions are less then half of the size of an actual roman legion and are also absolutely all of the professional standing army that China has. I may raise a third legion later or make the legions the size of actual roman legions much later but right now I think two large forces at either end of the empire is all that China needs. Next post will feature negotiations with the Xianyun concerning territorial claims on the Wei River and the first clearly marked borders in Asia.

I will also post about local military and bureaucratic organizations including the difficulties of making something of a legion out of the part-time soldiers that are the majority of China's military forces.

So Luther's special forces against Chinese light infantry. The showdown at Luoyang!

1) I am not moving my own people anywhere. Colonization is a very specific type of territorial expansion and if anything tribes at China's periphery are more likely to move to the interior of China after they get a taste of using iron tools and living in warm brick houses. Some tribes of course will be hit very hard by warfare after they tried to rebel, but this is likely to be the minority and even they will have a very strong economic incentive to work with the Chinese empire rather than continue to fight it. China doesn't want to kill them or take their land, only help them produce more so that they and the empire can both benefit more or less.

2) It's more likely to be in the hills and mountains of Yunnan, but yes. I want to turn Chinese provincial forces into light infantry rather than legions. I look forwards to seeing how special those special forces actually are!

[Joohan]

My point still stands

Native Americans were basically enslaved by colonizers or pushed off land - I haven't pushed anyone except rebels off their land and they eventually get to return anyways. Chinese expansion can't be compared to colonization because it's 1) not colonization and 2) not an unmitigated disaster for the people who find themselves living in the expanding state.

Well, comparative to the lives they led prior to Aaron's arrival, the current state of affairs is significantly less free. The governing document of your state has clauses in it which explicitly state that people can be forced to relocate at the behest of the state ( native removal, if you will ), that the state has a right to commandeer leadership of local military forces at any time, and peoples now no longer control their own food supply but must receive their daily rations from the state. The existence they now live would be comparatively totalitarian to what they'd left behind, were it not for how ungodly ineffective Chinese market control and bureaucracy is- which is a whole other can of worms.

Aaron's state, I would liken too most, resembles a more naive and less efficient version of Icedonia. You're right, what Aaron is doing isn't colonization - because colonization would probably be more efficient than trying to integrate a cornucopia of vastly different Neolithic peoples into an artificial culture based off of Aaron's vague recollections of a China 5,000 years removed in time and history. As for an unmitigated disaster, well... we'll see.

[Orostan]

Native Americans were basically enslaved by colonizers or pushed off land - I haven't pushed anyone except rebels off their land and they eventually get to return anyways. Chinese expansion can't be compared to colonization because it's 1) not colonization and 2) not an unmitigated disaster for the people who find themselves living in the expanding state.

Well, comparative to the lives they led prior to Aaron's arrival, the current state of affairs is significantly less free. The governing document of your state has clauses in it which explicitly state that people can be forced to relocate at the behest of the state ( native removal, if you will ), that the state has a right to commandeer leadership of local military forces at any time, and peoples now no longer control their own food supply but must receive their daily rations from the state. The existence they now live would be comparatively totalitarian to what they'd left behind, were it not for how ungodly ineffective Chinese market control and bureaucracy is- which is a whole other can of worms.

Aaron's state, I would liken too most, resembles a more naive and less efficient version of Icedonia. You're right, what Aaron is doing isn't colonization - because colonization would probably be more efficient than trying to integrate a cornucopia of vastly different Neolithic peoples into an artificial culture based off of Aaron's vague recollections of a China 5,000 years removed in time and history. As for an unmitigated disaster, well... we'll see.

1) The state doesn't always use that ability - it's designed to mitigate the threat of migrations during famine conditions or a lack of workers in one part of the country. When migration does need to be coordinated the state usually looks to volunteers rather than risk popular backlash by involuntary moving people out. They also don't really have less control of their food supply than they did before. Granaries are still in their towns and ultimately the Ministry of the Public Stock exists there because it's existence helps townspeople get iron tools and trade goods they need while in return they are asked to contribute part of what is in that granary to larger granaries in cities. Maybe they can't run around in the woods and kill their neighbors for picking berries from their bushes anymore but their standard of living is better and their lives are more stable. They're going to remember winters where their town's harvest failed and the Ministry moved rice and grain into their town's granary to keep it full and them fed.

2) How is my system any less efficient than a market? A market would be even more inefficient in this case - effort would be focused on trying to figure out prices and find profitable trade routes rather than simply moving a thing from where it is produced to where it is needed. Markets developed largely because of the way human societies began to be organized - not any particular advantages in efficiency from a bronze age palace economy. Aaron's state resembles a dictatorship of urban workers and town farmers in perhaps a more literal way than he'd like. Compared to the Imperium or any other society on Earth at this time can you really call it totalitarian?

[Endem]

Ralnis, can I ask, how hot do your blast furnaces get?

[UniversalCommons]

As a note, incendiaries would be readily available in many cases. We sell refined lamp oil in bulk for lamps. It is one of our exports. Also olive oil, candles, lamps, soap, strong alcohol...

[G-Tech Corporation]

As a note, incendiaries would be readily available in many cases. We sell refined lamp oil in bulk for lamps. It is one of our exports. Also olive oil, candles, lamps, soap, strong alcohol...

Mm yes. Possible. One question though.

This Mixer Carl, he doesn’t seem to have been mentioned before. So, he is a generic chemist-scholar. How would he have been unknown to the local people of Odessos, and so escaped being sent from the city? Seems like the type of important man who would have tabs kept on him.

[UniversalCommons]

As a note, incendiaries would be readily available in many cases. We sell refined lamp oil in bulk for lamps. It is one of our exports. Also olive oil, candles, lamps, soap, strong alcohol...

Mm yes. Possible. One question though.

This Mixer Carl, he doesn’t seem to have been mentioned before. So, he is a generic chemist-scholar. How would he have been unknown to the local people of Odessos, and so escaped being sent from the city? Seems like the type of important man who would have tabs kept on him.

Yes, there were several scholars who went into hiding under Aesop and did not leave the city. This would have been a situation where for all practical purposes he would have appeared to be gone with the other scholars. He would have been a known element before he "left". It is mentioned but not by specific name, but there is a mixer in the list.

I might want to do a break in to destroy the records of the scholars.

There were a lot more people leaving the city as scholars, than there were scholars. Remember many of the people leaving were masked or wearing protective clothing against the plague. Many people are probably still masked or wearing protective clothing unless everyone has taken the blessing in the city and are no longer required to wear masks or protective clothing. This creates an element of disguise.

He was in the empty districts, hiding out when they came a little too close and he moved the lab.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Yes, there were several scholars who went into hiding under Aesop and did not leave the city. This would have been a situation where for all practical purposes he would have appeared to be gone with the other scholars. He would have been a known element before he "left". It is mentioned but not by specific name.

I'm dubious of this. The men doing the checking to make sure the Scholars are gone certainly know the Scholars quite well, and there should only be a dozen or so Scholars within Odessos to start with - that's hardly an easy scenario where skilled individuals with dangerous knowledge will fall through the cracks. They won't care if more people leave the city with the Scholars, for obvious reasons, but not verifying the Scholars have left sounds pretty implausible.

Remember also that the Blackguards were not looking at the individual scholars recently, they were not interested in the internal politics. Most of the information might have been collected recently.

I'm not talking about the Blackguards doing the checking - since as I clarified earlier, they aren't intelligence operatives. I'm talking about local men aligned with the Conspiracy.

I might want to do a break in to destroy the records.

Possible, but of course, that would have to be done, yknow, before the Scholars were removed from the city. And it, well, hasn't been.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Oh, Orostan, two questions about your most recent post.

1) So, the YRS is deploying a minimum of five thousand men under arms, plus provincial militias. That's looking like about 3% of her population under arms, a remarkably high mobilization percentage. Historically, one would need to institute either a draft or extremely generous wages to attract a military of that size - and I'm assuming China has professional marines, sailors, and more besides who are part of her formal military, pushing that percentage of the populace under arms even higher. Do you have any justification for this percentage, aside from "they get silk" which China produces in minute quantities and has marginal value over cloth?

2) I see both legions deployed in offensive campaigns, meaning the rest of China's ~4000 mile border is only defended by provincial militias. Those provincial militias I assume are only diffidently trained, and possess no weapons much different than their neighbors. How are these provincial militias preventing incursions while simultaneously preventing internal tribes from leaving with large amounts of China's wealth which has been bestowed on them?

[UniversalCommons]

This is called the Historian's Fallacy, where people go back into the past to fix what happens in the future.

It seems to happen a lot, especially where mistakes are made. It is not particularly rational to be able to go back into the past to create perfect results. These people did not act this way until now. There was no indication they were following around the scholars previously.

A historical fallacy is where a person goes back into the past in their writing and puts in a new element or action which hadn't happened before. These actions are things like solving a mistake or revising a piece of history in some way to solve a problem. There should be limits on this kind of things because the mechanism creates situations where players cannot lose or make mistakes.

This probably would make things terrible for the conspirators. I could allow this to happen if it exposed many of the conspirators. We would know who was following the scholars around. There would probably be a lot of accidents and heart attacks.

[G-Tech Corporation]

This is called the Historian's Fallacy, where people go back into the past to fix what happens in the future.

It seems to happen a lot, especially where mistakes are made. It is not particularly rational to be able to go back into the past to create perfect results. These people did not exist until now.

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that after a demand that the Scholars leave Odessos, nobody is going to actually check if they leave or not? Because I can't really see that.

[Orostan]

Oh, Orostan, two questions about your most recent post.

1) So, the YRS is deploying a minimum of five thousand men under arms, plus provincial militias. That's looking like about 3% of her population under arms, a remarkably high mobilization percentage. Historically, one would need to institute either a draft or extremely generous wages to attract a military of that size - and I'm assuming China has professional marines, sailors, and more besides who are part of her formal military, pushing that percentage of the populace under arms even higher. Do you have any justification for this percentage, aside from "they get silk" which China produces in minute quantities and has marginal value over cloth?

2) I see both legions deployed in offensive campaigns, meaning the rest of China's ~4000 mile border is only defended by provincial militias. Those provincial militias I assume are only diffidently trained, and possess no weapons much different than their neighbors. How are these provincial militias preventing incursions while simultaneously preventing internal tribes from leaving with large amounts of China's wealth which has been bestowed on them?

1. balls i didn't realize it was that high a number, I will halve it if need be.

But for most people joining the military is the quickest way to get somewhere socially. Do you want to be chief of your tribe? The military can teach you how to lead. Do you want to be an engineer and not farm rice? The military needs plenty of those too. Do you want an education? Military families get priority for that and basically everything else.

Essentially the military is the logical starting point for anyone who wants to climb the social ladder. If people aren't looking for money they're certainly looking for power or a start to doing something better than they currently are doing. I want to gradually have soldiers do some of the more difficult and complex labor in China like constructing large dams or bridges. That way I can attract people to it more and use it for something productive.

2) Both legions are usually put near the border, both of the campaigns I mentioned would have taken no longer than a month or so. Usually they'd be moving along the border fighting various raiding groups and frequently retaliating against them. Provincial militias would consist mostly of part-time soldiers and be raised temporarily. If a tribe attempts to steal supplies from China there is a good chance that the local militia which almost always will outnumber them can beat them. They can do both this and preventing the usual small raid as everyone involved here is basically a random farmer with a halberd. A tribe attempting to leave China and make off with wealth is likely doing so alone as traveling in larger groups would make them slower and also reduce their chances of escaping. Of course the Chinese border is porous, but any tribe that was attempting to scam China would settle as close to a town or city as possible to get what they want as quickly as possible. The moment they began to pack up and leave it would be noticed and 'questions' would be asked.

I don't need to defend a 4000 mile border because absolutely no ancient society actually did that - I just need to be able to defend the places where people live.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

That's looking like about 3% of her population under arms, a remarkably high mobilization percentage.

Didn’t you mobilise close to three times that for the Second Sønderjylland War?

[Orostan]

That's looking like about 3% of her population under arms, a remarkably high mobilization percentage.

Didn’t you mobilise close to three times that for the Second Sønderjylland War?

To be fair to him those are my professional regular troops I'm having go around smash stuff on a regular basis.

[G-Tech Corporation]

1. balls i didn't realize it was that high a number, I will halve it if need be.

But for most people joining the military is the quickest way to get somewhere socially. Do you want to be chief of your tribe? The military can teach you how to lead. Do you want to be an engineer and not farm rice? The military needs plenty of those too. Do you want an education? Military families get priority for that and basically everything else.

Essentially the military is the logical starting point for anyone who wants to climb the social ladder. If people aren't looking for money they're certainly looking for power or a start to doing something better than they currently are doing. I want to gradually have soldiers do some of the more difficult and complex labor in China like constructing large dams or bridges. That way I can attract people to it more and use it for something productive.

Yeah, probably a good idea - I get your point about there being advantages to being in the military, but there are also disadvantages, like death from China's frequent wars. China is capable of winning these wars, since she mobilizes her men better, but with rudimentary medical knowledge and the average soldiers being diffidently equipped and trained, casualty figures are likely still significant. Historically speaking, any standing army of any worth is more like 1% of the populace, and beyond that you have to offer rapidly escalating resources to entice people into said military. Given China has dozens of ships operated by the military, as well as these two legions, either we need to see significant drawbacks with China sacrificing seriously elsewhere to support her military or you'll want to cut those figures.

2) Both legions are usually put near the border, both of the campaigns I mentioned would have taken no longer than a month or so. Usually they'd be moving along the border fighting various raiding groups and frequently retaliating against them. Provincial militias would consist mostly of part-time soldiers and be raised temporarily. If a tribe attempts to steal supplies from China there is a good chance that the local militia which almost always will outnumber them can beat them. They can do both this and preventing the usual small raid as everyone involved here is basically a random farmer with a halberd. A tribe attempting to leave China and make off with wealth is likely doing so alone as traveling in larger groups would make them slower and also reduce their chances of escaping. Of course the Chinese border is porous, but any tribe that was attempting to scam China would settle as close to a town or city as possible to get what they want as quickly as possible. The moment they began to pack up and leave it would be noticed and 'questions' would be asked.

I don't need to defend a 4000 mile border because absolutely no ancient society actually did that - I just need to be able to defend the places where people live.

I'm dubious of a military campaign against a prominent local rival taking a single month. A Chinese army is probably only making a few miles a day across broken terrain, if she is taking any reasonable precautions against ambushes or a night assault - these aren't exactly legionaries marching on Roman roads. A campaign across sixty miles would take a month to even be in a position to bring an enemy to battle, and a heavy infantry force like you describe might even be functionally incapable of catching up to a light infantry force like your more nomadic enemies will deploy unless they seek death against Chinese blades - which they shouldn't. Campaigns can take months of cat and mouse and systematic attempts to assault assets the enemy can't allow to be destroyed before you can force an engagement.

I'm unsure of the viability of expecting every farmer to fight with a halberd, and being able to issue most men in China with said halberds - those are the type of peasant militia that historically raiders triumph against due to concentrated force, not that are seen off consistently with minimal damage or losses. But hey, it is your border, if you want to take that standpoint you go for it.

[G-Tech Corporation]

That's looking like about 3% of her population under arms, a remarkably high mobilization percentage.

Didn’t you mobilise close to three times that for the Second Sønderjylland War?

Not near - more like sixteen hundred men, from a society I'm pretty happy asserting is more militarized than China.

[Orostan]

1. balls i didn't realize it was that high a number, I will halve it if need be.

But for most people joining the military is the quickest way to get somewhere socially. Do you want to be chief of your tribe? The military can teach you how to lead. Do you want to be an engineer and not farm rice? The military needs plenty of those too. Do you want an education? Military families get priority for that and basically everything else.

Essentially the military is the logical starting point for anyone who wants to climb the social ladder. If people aren't looking for money they're certainly looking for power or a start to doing something better than they currently are doing. I want to gradually have soldiers do some of the more difficult and complex labor in China like constructing large dams or bridges. That way I can attract people to it more and use it for something productive.

Yeah, probably a good idea - I get your point about there being advantages to being in the military, but there are also disadvantages, like death from China's frequent wars. China is capable of winning these wars, since she mobilizes her men better, but with rudimentary medical knowledge and the average soldiers being diffidently equipped and trained, casualty figures are likely still significant. Historically speaking, any standing army of any worth is more like 1% of the populace, and beyond that you have to offer rapidly escalating resources to entice people into said military. Given China has dozens of ships operated by the military, as well as these two legions, either we need to see significant drawbacks with China sacrificing seriously elsewhere to support her military or you'll want to cut those figures.

2) Both legions are usually put near the border, both of the campaigns I mentioned would have taken no longer than a month or so. Usually they'd be moving along the border fighting various raiding groups and frequently retaliating against them. Provincial militias would consist mostly of part-time soldiers and be raised temporarily. If a tribe attempts to steal supplies from China there is a good chance that the local militia which almost always will outnumber them can beat them. They can do both this and preventing the usual small raid as everyone involved here is basically a random farmer with a halberd. A tribe attempting to leave China and make off with wealth is likely doing so alone as traveling in larger groups would make them slower and also reduce their chances of escaping. Of course the Chinese border is porous, but any tribe that was attempting to scam China would settle as close to a town or city as possible to get what they want as quickly as possible. The moment they began to pack up and leave it would be noticed and 'questions' would be asked.

I don't need to defend a 4000 mile border because absolutely no ancient society actually did that - I just need to be able to defend the places where people live.

I'm dubious of a military campaign against a prominent local rival taking a single month. A Chinese army is probably only making a few miles a day across broken terrain, if she is taking any reasonable precautions against ambushes or a night assault - these aren't exactly legionaries marching on Roman roads. A campaign across sixty miles would take a month to even be in a position to bring an enemy to battle, and a heavy infantry force like you describe might even be functionally incapable of catching up to a light infantry force like your more nomadic enemies will deploy unless they seek death against Chinese blades - which they shouldn't. Campaigns can take months of cat and mouse and systematic attempts to assault assets the enemy can't allow to be destroyed before you can force an engagement.

I'm unsure of the viability of expecting every farmer to fight with a halberd, and being able to issue most men in China with said halberds - those are the type of peasant militia that historically raiders triumph against due to concentrated force, not that are seen off consistently with minimal damage or losses. But hey, it is your border, if you want to take that standpoint you go for it.

1) I don't have dozens of military ships, those expedition ships are basically just merchants who got some crossbows put on the front of their boats. I have no real navy right now because I don't need one.

2) That campaign specifically was against a single city that was close to the border sixty kilometers away which is closer to 40 miles. The target was a stationary city and the Shen are trying to copy the Chinese empire's military in a lot of ways - I wrote in detail about this Chun guy who was a mercenary for the Donghu before he became a king. They'd be trying to field similar heavy infantry forces. Besides that they did withdraw after a brief fight and no side took significant losses. Tuhe being burned down was basically a way of ensuring the Shen understood that raids on China's north would cost them.

Also, provincial militas would likely train with professional forces in the area - which is part of the reason why legions change position along the border frequently. The militias would not be peasants with sticks, they'd be slightly trained peasants with sticks who would usually outnumber raiders. Raiding parties into China are unlikely to be more than a hundred men and China does have a watch tower and patrol system on many parts of its borders - raiding groups that would usually come on foot could be tracked by scouts on horseback and then intercepted by a larger militia force.

[G-Tech Corporation]

1) I don't have dozens of military ships, those expedition ships are basically just merchants who got some crossbows put on the front of their boats. I have no real navy right now because I don't need one.

Ah, very good. I thought you had established a formidable navy, since there was a mention of military ships with ballistae being involved in the conquest of the Yangtze's rivermouth

2) That campaign specifically was against a single city that was close to the border sixty kilometers away which is closer to 40 miles. The target was a stationary city and the Shen are trying to copy the Chinese empire's military in a lot of ways - I wrote in detail about this Chun guy who was a mercenary for the Donghu before he became a king. They'd be trying to field similar heavy infantry forces. Besides that they did withdraw after a brief fight and no side took significant losses. Tuhe being burned down was basically a way of ensuring the Shen understood that raids on China's north would cost them.

Fair enough then. Just keep in mind that aside from rivals being happy to build Chinese armies and being defeated in the field, campaigns will take much longer.

Also, provincial militas would likely train with professional forces in the area - which is part of the reason why legions change position along the border frequently. The militias would not be peasants with sticks, they'd be slightly trained peasants with sticks who would usually outnumber raiders. Raiding parties into China are unlikely to be more than a hundred men and China does have a watch tower and patrol system on many parts of its borders - raiding groups that would usually come on foot could be tracked by scouts on horseback and then intercepted by a larger militia force.

Watchtowers, patrols, and scouts on horseback all sound like part of a formal military system...

[Orostan]

1) I don't have dozens of military ships, those expedition ships are basically just merchants who got some crossbows put on the front of their boats. I have no real navy right now because I don't need one.

Ah, very good. I thought you had established a formidable navy, since there was a mention of military ships with ballistae being involved in the conquest of the Yangtze's rivermouth

2) That campaign specifically was against a single city that was close to the border sixty kilometers away which is closer to 40 miles. The target was a stationary city and the Shen are trying to copy the Chinese empire's military in a lot of ways - I wrote in detail about this Chun guy who was a mercenary for the Donghu before he became a king. They'd be trying to field similar heavy infantry forces. Besides that they did withdraw after a brief fight and no side took significant losses. Tuhe being burned down was basically a way of ensuring the Shen understood that raids on China's north would cost them.

Fair enough then. Just keep in mind that aside from rivals being happy to build Chinese armies and being defeated in the field, campaigns will take much longer.

Also, provincial militas would likely train with professional forces in the area - which is part of the reason why legions change position along the border frequently. The militias would not be peasants with sticks, they'd be slightly trained peasants with sticks who would usually outnumber raiders. Raiding parties into China are unlikely to be more than a hundred men and China does have a watch tower and patrol system on many parts of its borders - raiding groups that would usually come on foot could be tracked by scouts on horseback and then intercepted by a larger militia force.

Watchtowers, patrols, and scouts on horseback all sound like part of a formal military system...

1. Oh, those were very basic and intended to be temporary. Most probably don't exist anymore - it has been close to 16 years now.

2. The Shun didn't know they were fighting such a large central government army at the time and I'd hesitate to call Tuhe a military defeat. A political and economic blow sure, but not a military one.

3. I don't see why they would be, they're not enormously complex things to do if the people who run it all are trained properly.

[G-Tech Corporation]

1. Oh, those were very basic and intended to be temporary. Most probably don't exist anymore - it has been close to 16 years now.

Uh, not to contradict you - but Aaron only landed in 2979. The current date is around 2969. There's no possible way it has been sixteen years since he constructed military ships and conquered the Yangtze rivermouth?

3. I don't see why they would be, they're not enormously complex things to do if the people who run it all are trained properly.

Properly trained people who regularly conduct military activities are... well, soldiers.