New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[Ralnis]

That depends, has China developed a black ops unit and has done actual intelligence and had to fight counter-intelligence work? Have they thrown dead bodies over walls with catapults? Made flamethrowers against besiegers? Poisoned wells? Spread the Red Death upon enemy and ally on accident due to the plague being more powerful than current medicine?

Despite all of that, I think Luther will experience a new battlefield. He's only fought in cities, the sea, deserts, plains, and mountains. So who knows what China can deliver to a man who just wants peace but can never find it so long he has a steel sword?

China hasn’t done much of that yet but by the time Luther arrives China will have some experience spying on a northern neighbor who will be an NPC civilization and dealing with the multitude of tribes to its west.

We will see how much Luther’s experience applies to China - I don’t think it will apply 100%.

I would say at least 65% Which is mostly his spying and soft power manipulation.

[Joohan]

Aaron has been working on steam engines for ten years or almost that though.

Show me a post of Aaron working on steam engines from 10 years ago.

Also, my guys didn’t happen to discover anything. They’ve been combining sulfur, charcoal, and whatever else to try and make gunpowder.

Your guys have just been combining random rubbish with sulfur and charcoal in the vain hope of making gunpowder? This sounds like the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee with a typewriter scenario. On a long enough time scale, eventually and totally by accident, that Chimp will write the entire play of Macbeth. But it's going to be an extremely long time. I don't buy that your guys happened to not only find the missing component they needed completely by chance, but they also happened to add every component of the mix in the exact proportions which would be needed to spark a reaction.

Niter forms near guano which is starting to be used as fertilizer and it makes sense that it could be collected accidentally when trying to get guano.

In, it forms in guano. Do you, without looking it up, how to separate the niter from the guano? Because it's not exactly an intuitive process. That's why I doubt that Aaron would have access to niter

[Suriyanakhon]

This sounds like the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee with a typewriter scenario.

Sounds like the Yellow River State as a whole.

[Orostan]

Aaron has been working on steam engines for ten years or almost that though.

Show me a post of Aaron working on steam engines from 10 years ago.

Also, my guys didn’t happen to discover anything. They’ve been combining sulfur, charcoal, and whatever else to try and make gunpowder.

Your guys have just been combining random rubbish with sulfur and charcoal in the vain hope of making gunpowder? This sounds like the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee with a typewriter scenario. On a long enough time scale, eventually and totally by accident, that Chimp will write the entire play of Macbeth. But it's going to be an extremely long time. I don't buy that your guys happened to not only find the missing component they needed completely by chance, but they also happened to add every component of the mix in the exact proportions which would be needed to spark a reaction.

Niter forms near guano which is starting to be used as fertilizer and it makes sense that it could be collected accidentally when trying to get guano.

In, it forms in guano. Do you, without looking it up, how to separate the niter from the guano? Because it's not exactly an intuitive process. That's why I doubt that Aaron would have access to niter

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=460193&p=36958036&hilit=Boiler#p36958036

Here is a post of Aaron working on a very primitive boiler from closer to 12 years ago.

Yes, this is basically the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee typewriter. However the priests doing this would be more predisposed to trying newer and more obscure materials like bat guano rather than grass or rocks. I also called this “fizzle powder” for a reason as there is barely any reaction. I have no idea how to separate niter from guano but given time it will be figured out.

This sounds like the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee with a typewriter scenario.

Sounds like the Yellow River State as a whole.

what do you mean introducing the steam engine to a horde of Neolithic farmers could have unforeseen effects?

[Ralnis]

This sounds like the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee with a typewriter scenario.

Sounds like the Yellow River State as a whole.

When Luther arrives he needs to fix this. By first exploiting it.

Also it's your turn Joohan.

[Joohan]

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=460193&p=36958036&hilit=Boiler#p36958036

Here is a post of Aaron working on a very primitive boiler from closer to 12 years ago.

Didn't G shortly after this call into question your actual knowledge and ability to make the cast iron you would need to have actually made such a boiler?

After the time skip, yes, i'm sure that Aaron could have made a single workable and highly expensive prototype for which to base future experiments off of.

Yes, this is basically the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee typewriter. However the priests doing this would be more predisposed to trying newer and more obscure materials like bat guano

Mixing bat guano with the other chemical components, even were the sulfur and charcoal in their proper ratios, wouldn't cause a chemical reaction - let alone fizzing.

given time it will be figured out.

Yes, given time - a lot more. Realistically speaking, you'll probably only get access to gunpowder when Tibetan Issac is pushed to make it. I, IRL, do know how to harvest niter, and the necessary component ratio of gunpowder.

[Orostan]

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=460193&p=36958036&hilit=Boiler#p36958036

Here is a post of Aaron working on a very primitive boiler from closer to 12 years ago.

Didn't G shortly after this call into question your actual knowledge and ability to make the cast iron you would need to have actually made such a boiler?

After the time skip, yes, i'm sure that Aaron could have made a single workable and highly expensive prototype for which to base future experiments off of.

Yes, this is basically the alchemical equivalent of the chimpanzee typewriter. However the priests doing this would be more predisposed to trying newer and more obscure materials like bat guano

Mixing bat guano with the other chemical components, even were the sulfur and charcoal in their proper ratios, wouldn't cause a chemical reaction - let alone fizzing.

given time it will be figured out.

Yes, given time - a lot more. Realistically speaking, you'll probably only get access to gunpowder when Tibetan Issac is pushed to make it. I, IRL, do know how to harvest niter, and the necessary component ratio of gunpowder.

1. The first boiler I made did not use cast iron and was made of bricks and clay. It exploded for obvious reasons. I think G-Tech has only questioned my ability to have good enough smiths to make weapons at one point - and we got over that by agreeing the average Chinese smith was not very good but good enough to make a sharp halberd head of good enough quality to not break so quickly I believe. Aaron has expensive and workable prototypes now and has been working on them for quite some time - I’ll accept having a single prototype of a large high pressure boiler though, as if I have a prototype I might as well be able to mass produce the things in a few years. Do you think it’s reasonable to post about a small locomotive being tested in Luoyang soon after the skip?

2. If there is enough material in there some reaction could occur, no? It would be inefficient and weak at best but it could exist if everything is there - right?

3. Realistically speaking developing explosive powder could be developed without Issac but I would have a very difficult time experimenting with ratios and components. The powder I want to have soon would be useful for blowing apart rocks, not shooting cannonballs.

[Ralnis]

I mean there is a Sumerian-Nestosian boiler I think. We have made aeropiles and some development until the Unification Wars and the Imperium's invasion of the League. So Luther should have the knowledge to make it better or even make an actual one.

[Orostan]

I mean there is a Sumerian-Nestosian boiler I think. We have made aeropiles and some development until the Unification Wars and the Imperium's invasion of the League. So Luther should have the knowledge to make it better or even make an actual one.

I’m already using small low pressure steam engines - I’m probably ahead of you guys.

[Ralnis]

I mean there is a Sumerian-Nestosian boiler I think. We have made aeropiles and some development until the Unification Wars and the Imperium's invasion of the League. So Luther should have the knowledge to make it better or even make an actual one.

I’m already using small low pressure steam engines - I’m probably ahead of you guys.

You those things that constantly blow up and are more like tinderboxes?

[Orostan]

I’m already using small low pressure steam engines - I’m probably ahead of you guys.

You those things that constantly blow up and are more like tinderboxes?

No, those explode because of high pressure. Low pressure engines have been in use for some time.

[Ralnis]

You those things that constantly blow up and are more like tinderboxes?

No, those explode because of high pressure. Low pressure engines have been in use for some time.

My question is how do you even have low pressure steam engines when you have a poorer iron techniques of those of the Near East?

[Orostan]

No, those explode because of high pressure. Low pressure engines have been in use for some time.

My question is how do you even have low pressure steam engines when you have a poorer iron techniques of those of the Near East?

I wouldn’t say I have poorer techniques - China probably has very large blast furnaces and some skill in casting and shaping metal. What I lack is skill at smithing.

[Ralnis]

My question is how do you even have low pressure steam engines when you have a poorer iron techniques of those of the Near East?

I wouldn’t say I have poorer techniques - China probably has very large blast furnaces and some skill in casting and shaping metal. What I lack is skill at smithing.

I mean I'll say you have the largest blast furnaces but you would have weaker skills compared to Nestosian-Sumerian or Imperial. To Luther these steam engines should've exploded because the iron would be like someone beaten it haphazardly and those that haven't exploded are warping to when they will. Something to make note when he crosses over in the timeskip and lives in China.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Practicing fencing for a dozen years, or a degree in a field, for instance.

But what about kendo? Is that plausible?

Hey man - I have zero skills myself so don't worry if you can't find anything out. If not for some very nice fishers Olivia would be totally dead.

[Ralnis]

But what about kendo? Is that plausible?

Hey man - I have zero skills myself so don't worry if you can't find anything out. If not for some very nice fishers Olivia would be totally dead.

If I was still the Tyrant of Sumeria...

[Orostan]

I wouldn’t say I have poorer techniques - China probably has very large blast furnaces and some skill in casting and shaping metal. What I lack is skill at smithing.

I mean I'll say you have the largest blast furnaces but you would have weaker skills compared to Nestosian-Sumerian or Imperial. To Luther these steam engines should've exploded because the iron would be like someone beaten it haphazardly and those that haven't exploded are warping to when they will. Something to make note when he crosses over in the timeskip and lives in China.

The boilers are made with presses, not by smiths. A Chinese low pressure steam engine probably does not have a risk of exploding if operated properly - they’d be made so steam would force open spaces between bolts and the metal they hold together and escape that way rather than build up and burst out.

The reason why the engines Aaron is building explodes is because the bolts for those engines are secured more tightly - rather than gradually give way they hold back steam and break. In the latest prototype that used primitive rivets the steam pressure simply broke a rivet and then broke open the boiler.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Hey man - I have zero skills myself so don't worry if you can't find anything out. If not for some very nice fishers Olivia would be totally dead.

If I was still the Tyrant of Sumeria...

Don't worry, we'll be paying Sumer a visit soon. Quick question - how far does the Holy kingdom stretch at this point? Have they gotten up to Kish and Babylon?

[Ralnis]

If I was still the Tyrant of Sumeria...

Don't worry, we'll be paying Sumer a visit soon. Quick question - how far does the Holy kingdom stretch at this point? Have they gotten up to Kish and Babylon?

It is up to Southern Turkey but I would think it would fracture without Luther to micromanage everything through the shadows.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Don't worry, we'll be paying Sumer a visit soon. Quick question - how far does the Holy kingdom stretch at this point? Have they gotten up to Kish and Babylon?

It is up to Southern Turkey but I would think it would fracture without Luther to micromanage everything through the shadows.

Indeed it will... but seriously? All the way to southern Turkey?... and here G and I thought you didn't actually control up past Babylon or Kish.

[Ralnis]

It is up to Southern Turkey but I would think it would fracture without Luther to micromanage everything through the shadows.

Indeed it will... but seriously? All the way to southern Turkey?... and here G and I thought you didn't actually control up past Babylon or Kish.

The Unification Wars had Uruk that controlled up to the Levant and Southern Turkey. Once the Kingdom was crushed, we inherited it's land and problems. At this point Luther couldn't handle the stress of fight more in order to hold it and after trying to kill himself twice, nearly OD'd on opium and wine, and the horrors that he had to see. He left for China to try and redeem himself by not trying to be a tyrant anymore and live a normal life.

[Speyland]

But what about kendo? Is that plausible?

What degree of training do you have? You mentioned a few classes, which normally wouldn’t qualify.

I'll probably list them then. Is that good for you?

[G-Tech Corporation]

What degree of training do you have? You mentioned a few classes, which normally wouldn’t qualify.

I'll probably list them then. Is that good for you?

When you say you’d probably list them after I mention that a few classes isn’t normally enough to qualify, I get confused

[Endem]

Don't worry, we'll be paying Sumer a visit soon. Quick question - how far does the Holy kingdom stretch at this point? Have they gotten up to Kish and Babylon?

It is up to Southern Turkey but I would think it would fracture without Luther to micromanage everything through the shadows.

Oh will it?

I'm definitely gonna make off with your tech and/or farmland when Sumer shatters

[G-Tech Corporation]

1. The first boiler I made did not use cast iron and was made of bricks and clay. It exploded for obvious reasons. I think G-Tech has only questioned my ability to have good enough smiths to make weapons at one point - and we got over that by agreeing the average Chinese smith was not very good but good enough to make a sharp halberd head of good enough quality to not break so quickly I believe.

Actually what we agreed was that the only way China could supply her armies, given Aaron's dramatically split priorities when it comes to training and the unforgiving nature of cast iron, was training those smiths so poorly that those halberd heads were shoddy enough that breaking quickly was exactly the problem - you said you would just have Chinese smiths turn out even more volume of halberd heads, and that soldiers would go to battle with multiple heads ready to be switched out when the first one broke, or the second.

I'd also just clarify that your problem isn't holding pressure - any sufficiently fat slab of iron of any grade will be up to that task. Your problem is generating pressure in the first place. China, I assume, lacks the chemical industry to produce airtight seals, meaning you can run an iron container boiling water as long as you want, and you'll only generate atmospheric levels of motive force.