NationStates

Endem wrote:

Ralnis wrote:You know it's gonna be fun when you do pop up.
Being serious, this will be fun.

If you're planning on squashing me right away like my previous character was subjected to by G-tech, be wary that religions are particularly stubborn to get rid of, just this time instead of thhe followers creating a separate nation you will have to deal with revolts, especially among the slave population, or even infiltration of government, you know, all the fun stuff, besides, why would you, I'll be off doing my own thing out in the hot, harsh, waterless desert while your armies are used to fighting in the grassland environment, with easy access to water, you know, the very not "Arabian Desert" like enviroment, you'd need to import it, and it would truly be a shame if something happened to it, out there, in the desert, with only the sands watching. Anyway, once I pop-up I'll be off conquering Dubai and maybe Muscat.

Actually you aren't wrong but understand that Sumer has fought in desert environment and have a camal cavalry that has been trained to deal with roaming desert raiders. Hell, they have been training in the deserts of Aksum and the Arabian Peninsula. Slave revolts will be a problem, always have been and always will. But that's why I have an intelligence agency developed to fight foes like this.

Now believe it or not, the Sumerians would like to smack the Dilmun and wrestle majority control over the Gulf. Other than that Sumeria would try to ally and trade with the nation but the Merchant Princes have been in Luther's crosshairs for decades now.

Ralnis wrote:

Endem wrote:If you're planning on squashing me right away like my previous character was subjected to by G-tech, be wary that religions are particularly stubborn to get rid of, just this time instead of thhe followers creating a separate nation you will have to deal with revolts, especially among the slave population, or even infiltration of government, you know, all the fun stuff, besides, why would you, I'll be off doing my own thing out in the hot, harsh, waterless desert while your armies are used to fighting in the grassland environment, with easy access to water, you know, the very not "Arabian Desert" like enviroment, you'd need to import it, and it would truly be a shame if something happened to it, out there, in the desert, with only the sands watching. Anyway, once I pop-up I'll be off conquering Dubai and maybe Muscat.

Actually you aren't wrong but understand that Sumer has fought in desert environment and have a camal cavalry that has been trained to deal with roaming desert raiders. Hell, they have been training in the deserts of Aksum and the Arabian Peninsula. Slave revolts will be a problem, always have been and always will. But that's why I have an intelligence agency developed to fight foes like this.

Now believe it or not, the Sumerians would like to smack the Dilmun and wrestle majority control over the Gulf. Other than that Sumeria would try to ally and trade with the nation but the Merchant Princes have been in Luther's crosshairs for decades now.

Ah but good sir, there's nothing to be worried about the soon to be united Arabic tribes out there, who's whole life revolved around the desert and living in it, instead of your army just fighting in it. Besides, the slave revolts were maybe happening, but imagine, a religion promising nothing but freedom spreading through them, to every slave promising that their servitude will end, and then them rising at the slightest match, that would be, quite the thing wouldn't it, I do wonder how well Sumer might fare, especially if their army at the time would be distracted in say, Dilmun. Besides, the Arabs are going to take out the merchant princes for you, they have slaves, and will be dead because of that.

Endem wrote:

Ralnis wrote:Actually you aren't wrong but understand that Sumer has fought in desert environment and have a camal cavalry that has been trained to deal with roaming desert raiders. Hell, they have been training in the deserts of Aksum and the Arabian Peninsula. Slave revolts will be a problem, always have been and always will. But that's why I have an intelligence agency developed to fight foes like this.

Now believe it or not, the Sumerians would like to smack the Dilmun and wrestle majority control over the Gulf. Other than that Sumeria would try to ally and trade with the nation but the Merchant Princes have been in Luther's crosshairs for decades now.

Ah but good sir, there's nothing to be worried about the soon to be united Arabic tribes out there, who's whole life revolved around the desert and living in it, instead of your army just fighting in it. Besides, the slave revolts were maybe happening, but imagine, a religion promising nothing but freedom spreading through them, to every slave promising that their servitude will end, and then them rising at the slightest match, that would be, quite the thing wouldn't it, I do wonder how well Sumer might fare, especially if their army at the time would be distracted in say, Dilmun. Besides, the Arabs are going to take out the merchant princes for you, they have slaves, and will be dead because of that.

Cool, and the local Sumerian navy can capitalize and take out an Author and his religious cult.

But seriously, other than the Dilmun we can establish ties. You don't mess with us and we don't mess with you.

Ralnis wrote:

Endem wrote:
Ah but good sir, there's nothing to be worried about the soon to be united Arabic tribes out there, who's whole life revolved around the desert and living in it, instead of your army just fighting in it. Besides, the slave revolts were maybe happening, but imagine, a religion promising nothing but freedom spreading through them, to every slave promising that their servitude will end, and then them rising at the slightest match, that would be, quite the thing wouldn't it, I do wonder how well Sumer might fare, especially if their army at the time would be distracted in say, Dilmun. Besides, the Arabs are going to take out the merchant princes for you, they have slaves, and will be dead because of that.

Cool, and the local Sumerian navy can capitalize and take out an Author and his religious cult.

But seriously, other than the Dilmun we can establish ties. You don't mess with us and we don't mess with you.

Well, I'm not sure why you would want Dilmun, especially when I'm done with it. But fine, I can settle for this sort of cold war style diplomacy ( there will be missionaries though, since the current core concepts of the faith I'll be establishing will be in this order: personal freedom, proselytizing, tribal kinship, and warfare )

Endem wrote:

Ralnis wrote:Cool, and the local Sumerian navy can capitalize and take out an Author and his religious cult.

But seriously, other than the Dilmun we can establish ties. You don't mess with us and we don't mess with you.

Well, I'm not sure why you would want Dilmun, especially when I'm done with it. But fine, I can settle for this sort of cold war style diplomacy ( there will be missionaries though, since the current core concepts of the faith I'll be establishing will be in this order: personal freedom, proselytizing, tribal kinship, and warfare )

Because Dilmun is a regional economic power in the Gulf. You attempting to break it shifts the balance to Sumer and the Empire will take advantage of it and assume control over the Gulf. You breaking it makes Sumerian control a monopoly within years.

Ralnis wrote:

Endem wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why you would want Dilmun, especially when I'm done with it. But fine, I can settle for this sort of cold war style diplomacy ( there will be missionaries though, since the current core concepts of the faith I'll be establishing will be in this order: personal freedom, proselytizing, tribal kinship, and warfare )

Because Dilmun is a regional economic power in the Gulf. You attempting to break it shifts the balance to Sumer and the Empire will take advantage of it and assume control over the Gulf. You breaking it makes Sumerian control a monopoly within years.

But Dilmun is a slave trader state and will because of that burn, I'll establish a very nice fishing industry on its ruins with those that were not slave owners and former slaves, and maybe a base for the navy, but that's for later. Also, don't you worry about monopoly, there's still Elam and I have my own plans.

Endem wrote:

Ralnis wrote:Because Dilmun is a regional economic power in the Gulf. You attempting to break it shifts the balance to Sumer and the Empire will take advantage of it and assume control over the Gulf. You breaking it makes Sumerian control a monopoly within years.

But Dilmun is a slave trader state and will because of that burn, I'll establish a very nice fishing industry on its ruins with those that were not slave owners and former slaves, and maybe a base for the navy, but that's for later. Also, don't you worry about monopoly, there's still Elam and I have my own plans.

Elam also is a slave state. Hell, Elam, Dilmun, and Sumeria make a slave trade triangle of sorts and brought prosperity to the Gulf. There's a reason why the Persian is know as one of the most prosperous centers of trade besides the North Sea. Slaves, iron, and goods that come from India and the Red Sea trade west to the cities of the Empire, horse nomads beyond Elam, and into Nestos.

Taking down Dilnun will look poor on whatever your group does because you just decimated one of the greatest centers of trade in the Near East. The shockwaves alone will echo throughout the connected world.

Ralnis wrote:

Endem wrote:If you're planning on squashing me right away like my previous character was subjected to by G-tech, be wary that religions are particularly stubborn to get rid of, just this time instead of thhe followers creating a separate nation you will have to deal with revolts, especially among the slave population, or even infiltration of government, you know, all the fun stuff, besides, why would you, I'll be off doing my own thing out in the hot, harsh, waterless desert while your armies are used to fighting in the grassland environment, with easy access to water, you know, the very not "Arabian Desert" like enviroment, you'd need to import it, and it would truly be a shame if something happened to it, out there, in the desert, with only the sands watching. Anyway, once I pop-up I'll be off conquering Dubai and maybe Muscat.

Actually you aren't wrong but understand that Sumer has fought in desert environment and have a camal cavalry that has been trained to deal with roaming desert raiders. Hell, they have been training in the deserts of Aksum and the Arabian Peninsula. Slave revolts will be a problem, always have been and always will. But that's why I have an intelligence agency developed to fight foes like this.

Now believe it or not, the Sumerians would like to smack the Dilmun and wrestle majority control over the Gulf. Other than that Sumeria would try to ally and trade with the nation but the Merchant Princes have been in Luther's crosshairs for decades now.

Pretty sure Sumeria doesn’t have camel cavalry.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:

Ralnis wrote:Actually you aren't wrong but understand that Sumer has fought in desert environment and have a camal cavalry that has been trained to deal with roaming desert raiders. Hell, they have been training in the deserts of Aksum and the Arabian Peninsula. Slave revolts will be a problem, always have been and always will. But that's why I have an intelligence agency developed to fight foes like this.

Now believe it or not, the Sumerians would like to smack the Dilmun and wrestle majority control over the Gulf. Other than that Sumeria would try to ally and trade with the nation but the Merchant Princes have been in Luther's crosshairs for decades now.

Pretty sure Sumeria doesn’t have camel cavalry.

We did trade camels with Aksum. I would think a camel cavalry be a thing. If not then I need to correct that.

Ralnis wrote:

Endem wrote:But Dilmun is a slave trader state and will because of that burn, I'll establish a very nice fishing industry on its ruins with those that were not slave owners and former slaves, and maybe a base for the navy, but that's for later. Also, don't you worry about monopoly, there's still Elam and I have my own plans.

Elam also is a slave state. Hell, Elam, Dilmun, and Sumeria make a slave trade triangle of sorts and brought prosperity to the Gulf. There's a reason why the Persian is know as one of the most prosperous centers of trade besides the North Sea. Slaves, iron, and goods that come from India and the Red Sea trade west to the cities of the Empire, horse nomads beyond Elam, and into Nestos.

Taking down Dilnun will look poor on whatever your group does because you just decimated one of the greatest centers of trade in the Near East. The shockwaves alone will echo throughout the connected world.

I made my point, the princes of Dilmun will end their life on spikes by the seaside, along with anyone who owned a slave there, the same goes for Ishtarut and any city further down the coast. Besides, as I said, I have plans on my own, if you really want a trade partner, I could be it, just not with slaves, slaves are a no go.

Endem wrote:

Ralnis wrote:Elam also is a slave state. Hell, Elam, Dilmun, and Sumeria make a slave trade triangle of sorts and brought prosperity to the Gulf. There's a reason why the Persian is know as one of the most prosperous centers of trade besides the North Sea. Slaves, iron, and goods that come from India and the Red Sea trade west to the cities of the Empire, horse nomads beyond Elam, and into Nestos.

Taking down Dilnun will look poor on whatever your group does because you just decimated one of the greatest centers of trade in the Near East. The shockwaves alone will echo throughout the connected world.

I made my point, the princes of Dilmun will end their life on spikes by the seaside, along with anyone who owned a slave there, the same goes for Ishtarut and any city further down the coast. Besides, as I said, I have plans on my own, if you really want a trade partner, I could be it, just not with slaves, slaves are a no go.

That's fine, seems that you made my conquest of the Gulf for me so being friends can work.

Ralnis wrote:

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Pretty sure Sumeria doesn’t have camel cavalry.

We did trade camels with Aksum. I would think a camel cavalry be a thing. If not then I need to correct that.

Pretty sure Aksum didn’t have domesticated camels either

G-Tech Corporation wrote:

Ralnis wrote:We did trade camels with Aksum. I would think a camel cavalry be a thing. If not then I need to correct that.

Pretty sure Aksum didn’t have domesticated camels either

Oof, time to get that started then.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:

Ralnis wrote:We did trade camels with Aksum. I would think a camel cavalry be a thing. If not then I need to correct that.

Pretty sure Aksum didn’t have domesticated camels either

Camels have been domesticated around Somalia and Southern Arabia around 3000 B.C.E, it's not hard to imagine their use would spread to Aksum and the rest of Arabia by now.

I feel like there's going to be a very interesting culture split between "eastern" and "western" arabs split between me and Endem

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:I feel like there's going to be a very interesting culture split between "eastern" and "western" arabs split between me and Endem

All will be Sumerian by the end of the day.

So, what's going on in Africa these days?

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:I feel like there's going to be a very interesting culture split between "eastern" and "western" arabs split between me and Endem

I mean, if we look past religious differences you'd probably find we have similar goals through different methods ( so, alliance? )

Endem wrote:

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Pretty sure Aksum didn’t have domesticated camels either

Camels have been domesticated around Somalia and Southern Arabia around 3000 B.C.E, it's not hard to imagine their use would spread to Aksum and the rest of Arabia by now.

Ehhh but you have to remember, the first date of domestication really doesn't mean camels are domesticated as we think of them. They haven't been selectively bred to carry burdens, or for size, or for speed. Nor, for that matter, likely concentrated into any meaningful breeding populations. Using a domesticated animal as a mount is rather different than using it for meat, or milk, or even as a pack animal.

Sure, you can put a man in armor on top of a camel. But if that camel swiftly tires under his weight, or struggles to appreciably exceed a sedate walking pace for any period of time under his burden, that camelry is useless - and that's the type of camel we're talking about at present.

Olthenia wrote:So, what's going on in Africa these days?

Hmm. Religious fanatics have set up a state in Libya and are making inroads into Egypt, different religious fanatics have set up a state in Aksum and are doing pretty much the same, and Thracian traders have set up trade posts in Carthage. That's about it, if memory serves. A fairly blank slate. Would be happy to have you, Olth, if you're thinking of joining.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:

Endem wrote:Camels have been domesticated around Somalia and Southern Arabia around 3000 B.C.E, it's not hard to imagine their use would spread to Aksum and the rest of Arabia by now.

Ehhh but you have to remember, the first date of domestication really doesn't mean camels are domesticated as we think of them. They haven't been selectively bred to carry burdens, or for size, or for speed. Nor, for that matter, likely concentrated into any meaningful breeding populations. Using a domesticated animal as a mount is rather different than using it for meat, or milk, or even as a pack animal.

Sure, you can put a man in armor on top of a camel. But if that camel swiftly tires under his weight, or struggles to appreciably exceed a sedate walking pace for any period of time under his burden, that camelry is useless - and that's the type of camel we're talking about at present.

Olthenia wrote:So, what's going on in Africa these days?

Hmm. Religious fanatics have set up a state in Libya and are making inroads into Egypt, different religious fanatics have set up a state in Aksum and are doing pretty much the same, and Thracian traders have set up trade posts in Carthage. That's about it, if memory serves. A fairly blank slate. Would be happy to have you, Olth, if you're thinking of joining.

Ah ok, good to know, so, use it as light cavalry, and bow cavalry, got it, and start to breed them selectively.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:A fairly blank slate. Would be happy to have you, Olth, if you're thinking of joining.

Both the Congo and the Niger river basins seem pretty interesting. How long d'you recon I'd have there before any of the neigbours come knocking?

We would of course request camels for our zoo/domestication research center. It is steadily growing. I am hoping that we will get yaks and other critters soon.

Olthenia wrote:

G-Tech Corporation wrote:A fairly blank slate. Would be happy to have you, Olth, if you're thinking of joining.

Both the Congo and the Niger river basins seem pretty interesting. How long d'you recon I'd have there before any of the neigbours come knocking?

In both cases, quite a long time. You might have trade partners in a century, but not much more than that for a good three hundred years?

Endem wrote:

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:I feel like there's going to be a very interesting culture split between "eastern" and "western" arabs split between me and Endem

I mean, if we look past religious differences you'd probably find we have similar goals through different methods ( so, alliance? )

Oh very much so!

Ralnis wrote:

Saxony-Brandenburg wrote:I feel like there's going to be a very interesting culture split between "eastern" and "western" arabs split between me and Endem

All will be Sumerian by the end of the day.

I think you have forgotten by now Ralnis- I’m more Sumerian than you at this point even since I’ve taken in so many of your people! Indeed, we know and worship more of your gods than yourself!