New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Exciting stuff Johan. Let’s hope I’m doing this right

[Endem]

Pfft. Debate is healthy.

Indeed, too much regulation is stifling to creativity. Bickering is acceptable so long as it's civil and reasonable.

Though, the recent debate has brought up a good point which I should address: the nature of control.

By what metric can a civilization declare that it effectively controls a place? Mistakes were certainly made in the early days of this RP, were in many of us were concerned with painting the map and empire more than the nitty gritty of true world building - something that i'll seek to rectify in the future. To actually claim ownership of a place and it's people is quite a daunting feat to claim, when placed into perspective, especially given our current ground level setting.

Hierarchy, infrastructure, logistics, connection - in the future, these are the four criteria by which I will judge the level of a civilization's control of a place.

Hierarchy: Have you a set and permanent leadership structure in place which is capable of taking orders from outside superiors and handing those orders down to the lowest level? Having colonists and or a mission in a region does not equate to actually have a set structure leadership capable of executing the will of Author's or their polities - having a mayor with the martial and material capability to enact his will, and who is subservient to superiors in your capital, does. A ship needs a captain and a crew who will listen to him.

Infrastructure: Are you able to effectively move through this area without too great a hinderance? If it takes you days to journey over short distances, for any number of terrain, weather, or geographic reasons, then you are incapable of asserting your will upon a region. If it takes police three days to show up to a crime scene then you'd essentially just be living in anarchy

Logistics: How easy is it to get in and out of this place for your personnel, resource caravans, troops, and valuable data? Conquering a region isn't as simple as moving your army in and planting a flag - this is the neolithic era. Whatever new place you've just marched into is still essentially the same as it has been for the past couple millions years or so. Conquest, in this day and age, is an investment - a very long term, resource and time consuming investment. Turning a forest in fertile plains and the people who lived there into farmers isn't something that happens in only a few years, and your home base ( for lack of a better term ) will be footing almost the entire cost. Are you able to afford the expense of moving people and resources out of this region without tearing apart your own home territories? Why pull out 3$ from an ATM if the service charge is gonna 4$

Connection: Does the local population work with you? If every time you leave the fort the locals start shooting arrows at you, you don't control that place. If the locals refuse to work with you, or just ignore your dictates, you don't control that place. Consent of the governed a real thing, even in our uber authoritarian nightmare empires. Locals must be willing and motivated to work with you, this requires a lot of trust and PR. Specifically, local powerbrokers must be willing to work with you. Just because some farmer may like what your merchants are selling, doesn't mean that they're going to ignore the no contact order handed down from their chief. Locals with power are the ones who get things done, and if you aren't on their good side, you're not getting anything done.

I would highly suggest yall look at Logistics, in regards toward future ideas about conquest.

Edit: and this goes without saying, you need all of the above factors covered at the same time in order to control a place

Understood.

[Orostan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater

This crater was supposedly made by an asteroid impact that happens around the time we are RPing. Maybe it could make an interesting thing to write about, even if it doesn't affect any author civilizations that much?

[Ralnis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater

This crater was supposedly made by an asteroid impact that happens around the time we are RPing. Maybe it could make an interesting thing to write about, even if it doesn't affect any author civilizations that much?

That should affect me, Edem, Saxony and Alarmoa.

[UniversalCommons]

Just as a note, Lady Ina daughter of Rolvarg of Varna is the current queen, and Dotos is her consort. One of her daughters is married to the son of Dardanus of Troy cementing an alliance between Troy and Varna. Hossia and the Nubians were stationed at Varna for a while. Ina has the loyalty of the countryside with the Farmer Warriors. This could be an interesting conflagration. There are also ties with the Cucuteni. I would imagine, there would be Hands watching things. During the war with the Kurgan, the Hammer Men had a group protecting the queen. She is close to retirement and has a council of nobles.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Just as a note, Lady Ina daughter of Rolvarg of Varna is the current queen, and Dotos is her consort. One of her daughters is married to the son of Dardanus of Troy cementing an alliance between Troy and Varna. Hossia and the Nubians were stationed at Varna for a while. Ina has the loyalty of the countryside with the Farmer Warriors. This could be an interesting conflagration. There are also ties with the Cucuteni. I would imagine, there would be Hands watching things. During the war with the Kurgan, the Hammer Men had a group protecting the queen. She is close to retirement and has a council of nobles.

All, of course, pawns of the League and the Scholars. The traditional rulers will take their rightful place, supported by the people. Foreigners and effeminates out.

[Endem]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burckle_Crater

This crater was supposedly made by an asteroid impact that happens around the time we are RPing. Maybe it could make an interesting thing to write about, even if it doesn't affect any author civilizations that much?

That should affect me, Edem, Saxony and Alarmoa.

The Wikipedia says it affected Madagascar, Indian Peninsula, and Australia, but make no mention of the middle east ( I guess it was protected from the Megatsunamis by Horn of Africa and India ), the best we can discern is that we'd see a falling star.

[Suriyanakhon]

Ladies, you're both beautiful, but could we please reserve this disagreement for tg?

[UniversalCommons]

Just as a note, Lady Ina daughter of Rolvarg of Varna is the current queen, and Dotos is her consort. One of her daughters is married to the son of Dardanus of Troy cementing an alliance between Troy and Varna. Hossia and the Nubians were stationed at Varna for a while. Ina has the loyalty of the countryside with the Farmer Warriors. This could be an interesting conflagration. There are also ties with the Cucuteni. I would imagine, there would be Hands watching things. During the war with the Kurgan, the Hammer Men had a group protecting the queen. She is close to retirement and has a council of nobles.

All, of course, pawns of the League and the Scholars. The traditional rulers will take their rightful place, supported by the people. Foreigners and effeminates out.

Ina is a local noble-- supported by the league. This should make it interesting.

A question about variolation. Variolation can be fatal with small pox 2-3% die. This is versus a 20% death rate from small pox with no variolation. What would be the death rate for variolation in the version which is being used by the Imperium. It might take a while.

This could create a weird balance as the ability to use protective gear combined with herbalism gets better.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

That should affect me, Edem, Saxony and Alarmoa.

The Wikipedia says it affected Madagascar, Indian Peninsula, and Australia, but make no mention of the middle east ( I guess it was protected from the Megatsunamis by Horn of Africa and India ), the best we can discern is that we'd see a falling star.

Oooh! I hope we all get a Jooohan admin event about the star!

[Joohan]

All, of course, pawns of the League and the Scholars. The traditional rulers will take their rightful place, supported by the people. Foreigners and effeminates out.

Ina is a local noble-- supported by the league. This should make it interesting.

A question about variolation. Variolation can be fatal with small pox 2-3% die. This is versus a 20% death rate from small pox with no variolation. What would be the death rate for variolation in the version which is being used by the Imperium. It might take a while.

This could create a weird balance as the ability to use protective gear combined with herbalism gets better.

In the Imperium it's something like 11% after a couple years - but that's for other reasons. The league though would probably suffer a similar death rate should they take a similar route

[G-Tech Corporation]

All, of course, pawns of the League and the Scholars. The traditional rulers will take their rightful place, supported by the people. Foreigners and effeminates out.

Ina is a local noble-- supported by the league. This should make it interesting.

A question about variolation. Variolation can be fatal with small pox 2-3% die. This is versus a 20% death rate from small pox with no variolation. What would be the death rate for variolation in the version which is being used by the Imperium. It might take a while.

This could create a weird balance as the ability to use protective gear combined with herbalism gets better.

A local cat's paw who supports a corrupt and failed regime. Just tinder to the flames of rightful cleansing.

Generally deaths from variolation aren't from the variolation itself, but rather from ineffective variolation resulting in too much of the virus overwhelming sufferers, or too little variolation failing to cause an appropriate immune response and thus those variolated still perishing of the actual plague. The former won't be a case with the Imperial variant, but the second is certainly possible - indeed probable.

Of course, both are going to beat out Neolithic quarantine handily, plus generic herbs. Unless you have an herb that interfaces directly with liver function and enzymatic cascade, which I'm not aware of.

[UniversalCommons]

Ina is a local noble-- supported by the league. This should make it interesting.

A question about variolation. Variolation can be fatal with small pox 2-3% die. This is versus a 20% death rate from small pox with no variolation. What would be the death rate for variolation in the version which is being used by the Imperium. It might take a while.

This could create a weird balance as the ability to use protective gear combined with herbalism gets better.

A local cat's paw who supports a corrupt and failed regime. Just tinder to the flames of rightful cleansing.

Generally deaths from variolation aren't from the variolation itself, but rather from ineffective variolation resulting in too much of the virus overwhelming sufferers, or too little variolation failing to cause an appropriate immune response and thus those variolated still perishing of the actual plague. The former won't be a case with the Imperial variant, but the second is certainly possible - indeed probable.

Of course, both are going to beat out Neolithic quarantine handily, plus generic herbs. Unless you have an herb that interfaces directly with liver function and enzymatic cascade, which I'm not aware of.

MIlk Thistle, silymarin effects the elevation of liver enzymes. There are a few other herbs exactly like this. There is also the dietary invention of oily fish that might help a tiny bit.

[G-Tech Corporation]

A local cat's paw who supports a corrupt and failed regime. Just tinder to the flames of rightful cleansing.

Generally deaths from variolation aren't from the variolation itself, but rather from ineffective variolation resulting in too much of the virus overwhelming sufferers, or too little variolation failing to cause an appropriate immune response and thus those variolated still perishing of the actual plague. The former won't be a case with the Imperial variant, but the second is certainly possible - indeed probable.

Of course, both are going to beat out Neolithic quarantine handily, plus generic herbs. Unless you have an herb that interfaces directly with liver function and enzymatic cascade, which I'm not aware of.

MIlk Thistle, silymarin effects the elevation of liver enzymes. There are a few other herbs exactly like this. There is also the dietary invention of oily fish that might help a tiny bit.

Not to doubt you, but the medical research seems pretty dubious. And, though this seems to come up a bit often so I feel bad doing it - Victor knew this before returning to the past?

[Endem]

The Wikipedia says it affected Madagascar, Indian Peninsula, and Australia, but make no mention of the middle east ( I guess it was protected from the Megatsunamis by Horn of Africa and India ), the best we can discern is that we'd see a falling star.

Oooh! I hope we all get a Jooohan admin event about the star!

I'm calling dibs, will convince people it's a sign of my civ's god.

[Joohan]

probably no event coming in the way of the meteor strike. What it's actual effects were beyond Madagascar seems kind of dubious, plus, what would that event even look like? An unusually bad storm hitting the coast of four authors who don't generally associate themselves with the sea?

[Ralnis]

probably no event coming in the way of the meteor strike. What it's actual effects were beyond Madagascar seems kind of dubious, plus, what would that event even look like? An unusually bad storm hitting the coast of four authors who don't generally associate themselves with the sea?

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

probably no event coming in the way of the meteor strike. What it's actual effects were beyond Madagascar seems kind of dubious, plus, what would that event even look like? An unusually bad storm hitting the coast of four authors who don't generally associate themselves with the sea?

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

Dito

[Ralnis]

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

Dito

So Holy War for the Rock when?

[Endem]

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

Dito

Same

[Ralnis]

Dito

Same

Three-way war for a rock in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Same

Three-way war for a rock in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

Oh wait- you wanted to take the rock? Jeesh, I was just going to sight it in the sky

[Ralnis]

Three-way war for a rock in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

Oh wait- you wanted to take the rock? Jeesh, I was just going to sight it in the sky

Actually I could make a post about seeing it with telescopes, crappy ass telescopes.

[Joohan]

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

Ditto

Same

Yes, and quite another reason why I wasn't about to do it either. Events aren't here to help move your story along the path you've designed, they're here to change and divert them in unexpected ways.

Though, the three religious middle eastern authors all sharing a similar cosmological event does sound like an interesting concept... I may have just something in mind...

[Ralnis]

I mean I was going to harvest it for spiritual reasons...

Ditto

Same

Yes, and quite another reason why I wasn't about to do it either. Events aren't here to help move your story along the path you've designed, they're here to change and divert them in unexpected ways.

Though, the three religious middle eastern authors all sharing a similar cosmological event does sound like an interesting concept... I may have just something in mind...

Luther sneezes

"I feel like there's a disturbance in the Heavens."