New Civilizations III ( OOC, Always Open )

[Endem]

I know I may seem stupid but what nation of madcap mystics?

Aren't you plotting a theocracy inspired on Dune?

Oh right, I thought you were referring to Aksum when you said madcap mystics but that didn't fit.

[Alaroma]

speak of the devil

Yeah, just been having...a lot of problems with life. But I think I have heard some of the gist. Aksum and Yanbu going to war, Nestos crumbling from the Red Plague. Aksum wanting to try and coup de grade Egypt.

We’re not going to war with Yanbu, but I would like to discuss the Arab question with you later. As for my Egyptian plans, think of it as a way to secure our co related interests.

[Ralnis]

Yeah, just been having...a lot of problems with life. But I think I have heard some of the gist. Aksum and Yanbu going to war, Nestos crumbling from the Red Plague. Aksum wanting to try and coup de grade Egypt.

We’re not going to war with Yanbu, but I would like to discuss the Arab question with you later. As for my Egyptian plans, think of it as a way to secure our co related interests.

We can try to talk about this over tg. Try to has out some type of storyline and back up plans if I ghost out again.

[UniversalCommons]

Would like to have Kug Bau head to Sumeria to the Temple library at Ur. He discovers a fragment from Uruk that mentions Inanna and Ur.

[Endem]

By the way, is Uruk still a thing? Or was it burned to the ground and all that?

[Ralnis]

By the way, is Uruk still a thing? Or was it burned to the ground and all that?

Yes, it is in the process of being rebuilt and made as the military capital of Sumeria.

[Bortslovakia]

So we've been chatting in the eu4 group. Specifically about actual NewCiv stuff, and I feel like bringing some of the discussion back here would be beneficial (that and Joohan yelled at us). So...

The enlightenment is coming soon to Hibernia, and I've been thinking. Faith is a fantastic motivator for missionary activity. We've already established that, despite the Imperium not officially endorsing or supporting said work, plenty of preachers take it upon themselves to brave the wilderness in the name of God. Why can't the same be true with ideology? Human rights advocacy actually has a pretty long and storied history, so why couldn't someone take it upon themselves to head out into the wilds of France, for example, looking to preach personal freedoms and liberties?

Just a thought honestly. But the more I think about it, the more I want to do it. It'd be a great way to shake up a few author states in the long term.

[G-Tech Corporation]

So we've been chatting in the eu4 group. Specifically about actual NewCiv stuff, and I feel like bringing some of the discussion back here would be beneficial (that and Joohan yelled at us). So...

The enlightenment is coming soon to Hibernia, and I've been thinking. Faith is a fantastic motivator for missionary activity. We've already established that, despite the Imperium not officially endorsing or supporting said work, plenty of preachers take it upon themselves to brave the wilderness in the name of God. Why can't the same be true with ideology? Human rights advocacy actually has a pretty long and storied history, so why couldn't someone take it upon themselves to head out into the wilds of France, for example, looking to preach personal freedoms and liberties?

Just a thought honestly. But the more I think about it, the more I want to do it. It'd be a great way to shake up a few author states in the long term.

Hmm. The main thing that comes to mind is the historical question of why - why wasn't this done historically? Perhaps, rightly, people in the past had little developed concept of such thing, or felt it of little value. Hierarchy of needs and all that. Religion is comforting because it offers peoples purpose or something which cannot otherwise be obtained, like an eternity of bliss beyond the desperate present. Ideology is a very wide tent, but I'd hazard a guess that your average ideology will look like abstract posturing to almost anyone outside of an Author civilization, and almost all within said civilizations.

[Bortslovakia]

So we've been chatting in the eu4 group. Specifically about actual NewCiv stuff, and I feel like bringing some of the discussion back here would be beneficial (that and Joohan yelled at us). So...

The enlightenment is coming soon to Hibernia, and I've been thinking. Faith is a fantastic motivator for missionary activity. We've already established that, despite the Imperium not officially endorsing or supporting said work, plenty of preachers take it upon themselves to brave the wilderness in the name of God. Why can't the same be true with ideology? Human rights advocacy actually has a pretty long and storied history, so why couldn't someone take it upon themselves to head out into the wilds of France, for example, looking to preach personal freedoms and liberties?

Just a thought honestly. But the more I think about it, the more I want to do it. It'd be a great way to shake up a few author states in the long term.

Hmm. The main thing that comes to mind is the historical question of why - why wasn't this done historically? Perhaps, rightly, people in the past had little developed concept of such thing, or felt it of little value. Hierarchy of needs and all that. Religion is comforting because it offers peoples purpose or something which cannot otherwise be obtained, like an eternity of bliss beyond the desperate present. Ideology is a very wide tent, but I'd hazard a guess that your average ideology will look like abstract posturing to almost anyone outside of an Author civilization, and almost all within said civilizations.

On the contrary, the enlightenment spread like wildfire. In fact, our modern understanding of society is entirely shaped by it. The only question is, in lieu of the information and academic infrastructure present in the 17th and 18th century, how would such ideas be spread in NewCiv? Hibernia's academic elite has always been encouraged to educate the general public, so it's not exactly like we're keeping our political theories secret to avoid giving the smelly poor people any ideas. Given that, yes the average person in Ireland does believe in what Pat has been advocating for decades, word of mouth and traveling ideologues seem the most logical solution.

Also I think you're woefully underestimating both how intuitive enlightened ideas are, and how passionate people can get about them. Remember that we're dealing with humanity at base zero, not a population of idiots with no desire to understand what's going on around them. Comfort may be a big reason why religions like Christianity spread, but that desire to find comfort fundamentally comes from a place of curiosity. A desire to understand the world, and what humanity's place is in it. Hell, if anything without centuries of monarchs and autocrats in Europe, personal liberties, self government, and individualism would probably resonate more with the common man, not less.

[Endem]

By the way, is Uruk still a thing? Or was it burned to the ground and all that?

Yes, it is in the process of being rebuilt and made as the military capital of Sumeria.

I see, and what happened to the former inhabitants, you know, the ones that kept rebelling, we're they enslaved and dispersed, or enslaved and rebuilding Uruk, or just killed?

[Ralnis]

Yes, it is in the process of being rebuilt and made as the military capital of Sumeria.

I see, and what happened to the former inhabitants, you know, the ones that kept rebelling, we're they enslaved and dispersed, or enslaved and rebuilding Uruk, or just killed?

Depends. The royal line has been killed to a child and stricken from history. Those who rebelled are enslaved and either sent up north to help with the expansion of mining towns in Turkey or have been dispersed. They don't want many to be near their homelands to try and spark another Uruk rebellion and a Third Unification War.

[Endem]

I see, and what happened to the former inhabitants, you know, the ones that kept rebelling, we're they enslaved and dispersed, or enslaved and rebuilding Uruk, or just killed?

Depends. The royal line has been killed to a child and stricken from history. Those who rebelled are enslaved and either sent up north to help with the expansion of mining towns in Turkey or have been dispersed. They don't want many to be near their homelands to try and spark another Uruk rebellion and a Third Unification War.

Ah I see... But Sumeria is engaged in the slave trade right? So they would still have *some* slaves in their homeland?

[Ralnis]

Depends. The royal line has been killed to a child and stricken from history. Those who rebelled are enslaved and either sent up north to help with the expansion of mining towns in Turkey or have been dispersed. They don't want many to be near their homelands to try and spark another Uruk rebellion and a Third Unification War.

Ah I see... But Sumeria is engaged in the slave trade right? So they would still have *some* slaves in their homeland?

Sumeria is the largest slave-state in the world. There are laws to help the slave gain their freedom and rights but they are still the largest slave state in the world and the source of much slavery. Including chattel and learned slaves are usually seen in administrative work.

[Endem]

Ah I see... But Sumeria is engaged in the slave trade right? So they would still have *some* slaves in their homeland?

Sumeria is the largest slave-state in the world. There are laws to help the slave gain their freedom and rights but they are still the largest slave state in the world and the source of much slavery. Including chattel and learned slaves are usually seen in administrative work.

I see, *Machiavelian mustache-twirling*


Anyway, I noticed that on the map the mighty empire of Line 98 has arisen in China.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

Ah I see... But Sumeria is engaged in the slave trade right? So they would still have *some* slaves in their homeland?

Sumeria is the largest slave-state in the world. There are laws to help the slave gain their freedom and rights but they are still the largest slave state in the world and the source of much slavery. Including chattel and learned slaves are usually seen in administrative work.

and many of those learned slaves drip drip into Yanbu and make up a large portion of our skilled labor force...

[Ralnis]

Sumeria is the largest slave-state in the world. There are laws to help the slave gain their freedom and rights but they are still the largest slave state in the world and the source of much slavery. Including chattel and learned slaves are usually seen in administrative work.

and many of those learned slaves drip drip into Yanbu and make up a large portion of our skilled labor force...

True, which will make Sumeria look at Yanbu as the Arab Question.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

and many of those learned slaves drip drip into Yanbu and make up a large portion of our skilled labor force...

True, which will make Sumeria look at Yanbu as the Arab Question.

What can I say? The lady of lagash gives blessings carried on Enlil’s wings.

[Joohan]

Oh also, Joohan? Just a generic note, but this collab might go forward faster if we RP Icedonia as an NPC now that you're no longer the Author there. I'd like to treat anything Borts and I feel reasonable as something not necessary to debate, so we don't spend forever on this.

Yeah tracking. Once the moot collab is over, plan on permanently heading over to Tibetan Issac - borts should be taking the reigns of whatever shenanigans we get up to from that point onward, with me only every occasionally dropping by or giving some context to something.

[UniversalCommons]

I think it was occupied and we essentially extracted all the knowledge we could from it. We took their library and copied it. We took their skills and learned them. There is a library in Anbar across the river which has a lot of what was in Uruk. Not all of it, but most significant things. It would follow some things like the eastern conquests. We would take seeds from their gardens for useful plants, as well. One of the things which conquerors did was have useful things in their own gardens-- date palms, flowers, etc. We would do the same thing to Cyprus. Knowledge, herbs and plants, etc. I would imagine the followers of the Upright Way would also take their fighting knowledge what little of it was useful as well.

[Bortslovakia]

I think it was occupied and we essentially extracted all the knowledge we could from it. We took their library and copied it. We took their skills and learned them. There is a library in Anbar across the river which has a lot of what was in Uruk. Not all of it, but most significant things. It would follow some things like the eastern conquests. We would take seeds from their gardens for useful plants, as well. One of the things which conquerors did was have useful things in their own gardens-- date palms, flowers, etc. We would do the same thing to Cyprus. Knowledge, herbs and plants, etc. I would imagine the followers of the Upright Way would also take their fighting knowledge what little of it was useful as well.

Wait you're saying you occupied.... part of a Sumerian city? That feels like something you should clear with Ralnis, because I can't see any reason why you'd just be allowed to sit on a valuable library in his territory.

[Ralnis]

I think it was occupied and we essentially extracted all the knowledge we could from it. We took their library and copied it. We took their skills and learned them. There is a library in Anbar across the river which has a lot of what was in Uruk. Not all of it, but most significant things. It would follow some things like the eastern conquests. We would take seeds from their gardens for useful plants, as well. One of the things which conquerors did was have useful things in their own gardens-- date palms, flowers, etc. We would do the same thing to Cyprus. Knowledge, herbs and plants, etc. I would imagine the followers of the Upright Way would also take their fighting knowledge what little of it was useful as well.

Hey Commons, I allow trade of knowledge through out alliance but strictly occupying it would be against it. Hell, anything Uruk would be heavily watched and patrolled underneath heavy security because of the War and any threats because of it. So there would have to come to some talks about which of your Cults or Schools are allow to study what wasn't burned down.

[UniversalCommons]

I think it was occupied and we essentially extracted all the knowledge we could from it. We took their library and copied it. We took their skills and learned them. There is a library in Anbar across the river which has a lot of what was in Uruk. Not all of it, but most significant things. It would follow some things like the eastern conquests. We would take seeds from their gardens for useful plants, as well. One of the things which conquerors did was have useful things in their own gardens-- date palms, flowers, etc. We would do the same thing to Cyprus. Knowledge, herbs and plants, etc. I would imagine the followers of the Upright Way would also take their fighting knowledge what little of it was useful as well.

Hey Commons, I allow trade of knowledge through out alliance but strictly occupying it would be against it. Hell, anything Uruk would be heavily watched and patrolled underneath heavy security because of the War and any threats because of it. So there would have to come to some talks about which of your Cults or Schools are allow to study what wasn't burned down.

Our goal initially was to copy the contents of the main temple library at Uruk and send it over to Anbar where it could be used for study. The process would include providing duplicates to Ur as well.

Kug Bau would come back to Ur to check for some things which they did not get in the copying from Uruk that might be in Ur about the history of the plague and Erra.

[Endem]

True, which will make Sumeria look at Yanbu as the Arab Question.

What can I say? The lady of lagash gives blessings carried on Enlil’s wings.

This is the moment I hate I don't have the nation established yet because I would question about a potential alliance.

[Ralnis]

What can I say? The lady of lagash gives blessings carried on Enlil’s wings.

This is the moment I hate I don't have the nation established yet because I would question about a potential alliance.

You know it's gonna be fun when you do pop up.
Being serious, this will be fun.

[Endem]

This is the moment I hate I don't have the nation established yet because I would question about a potential alliance.

You know it's gonna be fun when you do pop up.
Being serious, this will be fun.

If you're planning on squashing me right away like my previous character was subjected to by G-tech, be wary that religions are particularly stubborn to get rid of, just this time instead of thhe followers creating a separate nation you will have to deal with revolts, especially among the slave population, or even infiltration of government, you know, all the fun stuff, besides, why would you, I'll be off doing my own thing out in the hot, harsh, waterless desert while your armies are used to fighting in the grassland environment, with easy access to water, you know, the very not "Arabian Desert" like enviroment, you'd need to import it, and it would truly be a shame if something happened to it, out there, in the desert, with only the sands watching. Anyway, once I pop-up I'll be off conquering Dubai and maybe Muscat.