Tales of Two Horizons OOC 1.4 OPEN

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Alright! Yes...

[Tracian Empire]

A little rushed but my app should be ready.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Yes, let me reserve the United Mexican States. Fuego!

[Union Princes]

I'll go with the EIC of Bengal. Gonna conquer the Indian SubContinent for the British Empire and then do some wacky stuff with Winston Churchill.

[Rodez]

Ohhh yeahhh, glad to see this return.

Is there anything special or interesting to note regarding the Vietnamese in this timeline? I think they might be fun.

[Union Princes]

Alright, replaced my Russia app for the EIC one. Gonna work on the history later

[Tales of Two Horizons OP]

Austria is accepted. Great Power descriptions will be added above Eastern history in the roster tomorrow.

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

Ohhh yeahhh, glad to see this return.

Is there anything special or interesting to note regarding the Vietnamese in this timeline? I think they might be fun.

Hello, and welcome back. They are considered a civilized power that just beat back the Guang in a nam style war, spirits are up after that.

[Union Princes]

Columbia, I'm apping as the EIC. is there something I'm missing of the relations section?

[The Pearl River]

Generic Info
Nation Name: Min confederation
Symbols:

Location: 82
Population: Min Proper: 15 million
Philippine Islands: 7 Million
Taiwan: 800.000
Borneo and Sulawesi: 2 Million
Capital City: Hokchiu|福州市 (Fuzhou)
Civilization Status: Great Power
Government Info
Government Type: Parliamentary merchant republic with elective monarchistic features
Brief Explanation of Government: The chancellor of the Min are elected every five years from a council of governors, elections for the chancellor aren't open to the public. Openings for goverment officials are open to the public from a system imperial examinations, to be a governor of a province in the min you must wait until either a current member of the governing council resigns, fired, or ends their six yesr term. Members of the governing council can be fired given a 2/3 majority from the governor council. Though in theory anyone could be a member of the governing council, in practice wealthy merchant family mostly rule the council
Ideology: Oligrachic, Mercantilist, Neoconfuciansim,
Leader/s: Grand Sectariat Shao
Emperor Zhi Tai
Relations The Min confederacy remains neutral with mainland poltics having generally good relations and doing business with most states in the yangtze delta and the shandong peninsula. The dutch empire remains one of it's closest ally in the west after they had helped the confederation gained the filipino archipelago. The state of Guang and Wu are entwined in a bitter rivalry over Trade dominance with the confederation in the south china sea and the indonesian archipealgo with both nations

Population Info
Brief Description of your people: The confederation is a diverse country, from it's humble begginings as a small state of fujian to it's current state as a great power the country has always thrived on trade. The min people has always believed the idea of unity in diversity, believing that under diversity a nation grows stronger unlike the ming who collapsed from it's attempts to create a han centred nation. The min people are also open to more change than most mainland states do, under the philosophy of failure to advance would lead to destruction like how the ming did during it's age of isolation.
Religion: The majority of the min people are devout buddhist, daoist, and confucians with most of them centred around northern philipphines and the min mainland. While in the southern mindanao and visayas, Islam is the majority religion around those parts. The min people themselves are generally tolerant of other religions making their way into the confederation as most traders from india and europe tend to settle and spread their religion in min ports.
Main/Accepted Culture(s): Min, Hokkien, Hakka, Han
Other Cultures: European, African
Military Info
Army: 8/10 The main army would be around 125,000 men stationed at the Min Mainland, of which given the terrain would mean that they will be mostly infantry and artillery; with numerous fortification on the borders. Another 25,000 men from the mainland are distributed all over the colonies to ensure that the Confederation's goals are to be upholded.Each colony has their local military units and special corps that are sent to the mainland to serve as additional garrison.

Navy: 10/10 One of the largest fleet among the chinese states, The Confederal Navy is the most important branch of the min armed forces. The Confederal Navy uses Chinese designed ships but slowly incorporate western design and technology since the Min-Spanish War, the min themselves are also developing their own military technology.

The Naval forces is divided between the smaller Inland forces that focuses on guarding the waterways of mainland fujian, and the Main Oceanic force that patrols around The south china sea and the min colonies
. The Min confederacy has 37 ships of the line, and 17 frigates

Other Info
Economic Strength: 18, The prominent trade empire of the east, profiting heavily from the spice trade with the europeans. However it's inability to industrialize unlike the neighboring guang would cause a decline in Min's economy. Min's colony of the philippines would proof to be an advantage to them, as they are rich in minerals, and raw materials, the need to indutrialize will need to be prioritized if the min refuse to decline
Development: 14, Min's infrastructure is unequal to say the list. Most of min's lush and shining cities are located in the coast or mainland china, Min has slowly westernized over the years adopting western sewage system, canals, and dams. Min's prized colony of the philippines is still full of lush jungles and mountains and have very little connection inland.
Public Order: 12, Unlike most chinese states where all power is centred around a singular person, The confederation's power is divided among the Council of governors. Representative from several min regions that discuss on what would benefit the confederacy as a whole, though some governors still work for the good of the people, some are members of influential merchant families and would rather prioritize personal needs rather than the benefit of the people.
Goals:
- Maintain Min's trade empire
-Integrate the Philipphines into min proper
- Centralize the empire
- Win the Indonesian state's favour to the Min empire
- Work with the dutch and the Majapait to kick Guang and Wu out of indonesia.
- Westernize and Industrialize.
History: At 1451 at the height of the ming civil war that raged across the middle kingdom, the local governor of fujian, Zhì Yuan gained control over his territory and declared independence from the ming. He declared himself emperor of the kingdom of Min and fought against the imperial goverment with warlords and fellow independent governors. At the end of the ming civil war and the eventual collapse of the dynasty, he was free to govern the min highlands and laid the groundwork for the future min confederation. Unfortunately he did not live that long to govern his country during times of peace as he died in 1493 from old age. Min would continue to live peacefully until 1520 when Emperor Zhì Xu ascended to the throne, Emperor Zhì Xu was the one who kickstarted the min trade empire by creating navigating schools, establishig the colony of Yu Dao in the philippines and kicked the ming loyalist out of taiwan. During the twilight years of Emperor Zhì Xu's reign the min had control over Taiwan, and Luzon. Emperor Zhi Xu died in 1590 and his eldest son Prince Wu ascended to the throne.

The Zhì dynasty of Min became victims of the usual problems that plagued chinese dynasties. Emperor Zhì Wu did not have any interest in governing the country and would rather spend his days toiling around with his may concubines. Thus the governing of the country was left at the hands of a council of imperial eunuchs. This council of imperial eunuchs were the foundation of the modern min's council of Governors. Throughout the years the eunuchs would send one of their own to the emperor to finalize their laws, back then it was a dangerous job, as disturbing the emperor during his "parties" with his concubines would result in the execution. Now however, that position evolved into the Grand Sectariat, the de jure head of goverment of the Confederation.

The first contact the confederation had with the europeans were the portuguese in 1520, who gave the confederation a glimpse of technology the likes of the confederacy had never seen before like european firearms that helped the confederation in their conquest of Mindoro and Palawan, providing them the stepping stone to indonesia. It's also at this stage that the confederation interacted with the muslim sultans of mindanao and sulu, and islam spread to the confederation. Religion has always played a minor role in min governance and the min are generally open to islam, whilst mainland chinese states persecuted muslims or banned the circulation of the qur'an. The confederation welcomed them with open arms. The muslim migrants started to open madrasas, build extravagnt mosques, and some becoming goverment officials. One of these migrants eventually became the governor of the cagayan region, and eventually grand sectariat. Hai rui, a muslim migrant from hainan became grand sectariat from 1555 to 1565. His reforms and his efforts to eradicate corruption and nepotism within the Min court resulted in the min economic boom resulting in the increase of a merchant middle class and the start of the min golden age during his term.

1610, and a letter was recieved at the min court. It was from the Maguindanao sultanate, a tributary state of the Min confederation, they had informed the min court of the growing threat of the spanish empire over on the visayas. They requested to have the Confederation's help in the event of a spanish invasion, the min court complied to the request. Grand sectariat Te Sihung who was in office at the time knew that war with the spanish was inevitable and began searching for allies against the spanish empire. The sultanate of Sulu agreed to help the confederacy in the event of the Min-spanish war and signed the Fuzhou agreement saying palawan will continue to be under Sulu Rule and the Confederation will respect Sulu's sovereignity. Ten years later and the inevitable happened.

Spanish galleons surrounded the waters of the Maguindanao sultanate creating a blockade, and sending an ultimatum to the sultan to submit to spanish rule or face annihilation. The letter was corresponded to the min court and the confederacy declared war against the Spanish empire. The first five years of the war were horrible for the confederation with the spanish winning ever major battle and the min allies of the sulu and other small sultanates surrendered against the spanish armada. The war had gotten to a standstill for another five years, and the min only had Luzon as their only stronghold against the spanish and with the Colonial capital of Yu Dao sieged by the spanish armada for three months, the min might just lose this war.

Then grand sectariat Tian Feng heard from rumors across the kingdoms over a new european kingdom that had beaten the spanish empire back then and in some ways similar to the min confederation had set up a "Tributary state" in sumatra. Thus a min envoy was set to meet Jan Pieterzoon Coen, to assist the min in helping kicking the spanish out of the philipphines. The dutch, seeing that the spanish would interfere in their empire building in asia decided to help the Min against the spanish and sending a task force and modern weapons against the spanish empire. Thus the tides were turned, Yu Dao was liberated from the siege and gained the title 永固城 or impenetrable city. The Dutch-Confederation Forces Liberated Mimaropa and are pushing deep into spanish controlled territory. By 1647 the min forces laid siege to the Spanish east indies capital of Cebu demanding the spanish to surrender the spanish east indies into the control of the Min confederation. The Spanish refused and by November 1648, General Li broke the city walls of cebu and captured the city under the banner of the confederation. General Li was dubbed the dragon of the west from his achievement and thus ends a decade long conflict.

The min had gained full control over the Filipino archipelago and the Lands in Sabah formerly belonging to the sulu sultanate. Due to the costly war against spain, the Confederation opened up it's port for foreign merchants looking to buy min goods such as Coffee, Porcelain, and Tea. The victory against the spanish also had war reperations that the min needed to rebuilt it's cities to their glory. A century of peace followed with the min economy and military recovered and modernized, a perfect time for war. A min merchant ship had mistaken a wu vessel as an enemy an opened fire, the Wu emperor swiftly declared war against the confederation, like last time the first few years were bad for the confederacy. But the tides quickly turned for the min after the decisive battle of ryukyu. The min created a blockade around Wu, and proposed peace, the wu king declined at first but as battle after battle the Wu lost against the confederacy, They gave in to min demands and ceded ternate.The Wu emperor shortly was found dead after the state descended towards chaos. Under chancellor Lin Zexu, european trade was restricted and thus halted the industrialization of the Min confederation, While the neighbouring guang were producing iron and steel from their factories and making a profit, the min could only sell them their raw materials. Now under Chancellor Shao who studied overseas in London, The Min empire prepares to extend their reach towards asia and create a Co-Prosperity alliance between the states in indochina, indonesia, and even mainland china against Wu and Guang.

[Rodez]

Ackshually if Great Qian is available, would that be a better fit to drive more activity in China? I understand there's a civil war that needs intervening in?

[Kargintina the Third]

Ackshually if Great Qian is available, would that be a better fit to drive more activity in China? I understand there's a civil war that needs intervening in?

Qian is available and would be very important

[Rodez]

Ackshually if Great Qian is available, would that be a better fit to drive more activity in China? I understand there's a civil war that needs intervening in?

Qian is available and would be very important

And the story with them is that they adopted Orthodoxy from Russia, right? So do I get to meme Chinese Emperors named 'Paul,' or are they still very much sinicized?

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

Qian is available and would be very important

And the story with them is that they adopted Orthodoxy from Russia, right? So do I get to meme Chinese Emperors named 'Paul,' or are they still very much sinicized?

Maybe not Paul, but I have been toying that the Beijing church has Confucius as a saint. I would imagine the emperors may take a saint's name, but they would likely not be named it initially.

*More information on Qian can be provided tomorrow

[Rodez]

And the story with them is that they adopted Orthodoxy from Russia, right? So do I get to meme Chinese Emperors named 'Paul,' or are they still very much sinicized?

Maybe not Paul, but I have been toying that the Beijing church has Confucius as a saint. I would imagine the emperors may take a saint's name, but they would likely not be named it initially.

*More information on Qian can be provided tomorrow

Sounds good. I've started the app, but I'll wait on that to finish it.

[Kargintina the Third]

Maybe not Paul, but I have been toying that the Beijing church has Confucius as a saint. I would imagine the emperors may take a saint's name, but they would likely not be named it initially.

*More information on Qian can be provided tomorrow

Sounds good. I've started the app, but I'll wait on that to finish it.

I think we shall be good friends

[Union Princes]

Columbia, about my question.

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

Columbia, about my question.

There are a few things we probably want to look over for the EIC. Small thing, but William IV is actually your head of state till next year. Small thing, but still important.

Relations wise you probably want to mention your links to the Mughals and the Marathas at the very least, we are currently playing them off each other to keep our territories and hopefully expand. The nations in what would be the Madras Presidency irl are ones that we are decently friendly with, we would avoid expansion there. Relations with the Chinese nations should be mentioned for trade, you are probably the primary means they communicate with Britain.

Other things to say before you get too far, make sure to drop the population to around 40 million, and drop the army to around 150k. I can understand having the larger army owing to the presence of the Easter GPs, but 300k might be a bit high.

Development we want to drop to a 10 or a 11. We actively consumed Bengal's industry to feed the Industrial Revolution at home, it was not a pretty picture. Public order I would also drop a bit, maybe a 13 or 14. 16 is exceptional public order, and much higher than 16 public order you are running an Orwellian State.

Def looking nice so far though : )

[Union Princes]

Alright, I made those edits. I'll try finishing the history soon.

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

Alright, I made those edits. I'll try finishing the history soon.

Noice

[The Pearl River]

Hey umm abt my army and navy, how many should i have for it to be reasonable is 5.000 active infantry and 10.000 reserves too much or too little?

[The Industrial States of Columbia]

Hey umm abt my army and navy, how many should i have for it to be reasonable is 5.000 active infantry and 10.000 reserves too much or too little?

You probably want a larger army and navy. Navy numbers you will especially want. You have the largest navy atm of the Chinese Great Powers. The army should likewise be larger, as even though you have the mountains to defend you, you still need troops to hold them.

[Union Princes]

Why is the Min population so small? only 15 million? Is this a city-state?

[Tales of Two Horizons OP]

Why is the Min population so small? only 15 million? Is this a city-state?

The population of China was reduced to reflect that while it is equal in development to the west, centuries of war have dropped it from what it was under the Qing. 15 million is nothing to sneeze at though for core population, the UK has 18 million on Great Britain itself, with another 7 million in Ireland. The 15 million does not figure in colonies and territories I am guessing.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Hey umm abt my army and navy, how many should i have for it to be reasonable is 5.000 active infantry and 10.000 reserves too much or too little?

That's extremely small for a nation like yours, to be honest. 5.000 active infantry means you have two regiments in total. Britain, in the 1770s, deployed 48.000 troops to the US. That was, of course, war-time strength, but even then, no state would just have two active regiments, especially not if sufficiently large.