New Civilizations ( world building and new era discussion )

[UniversalCommons]

Gdansk-- Smuggling capital of the Imperium. There were a number of trading families in Gdansk. Even with them gone, it remains the main source of Baltic Amber, also soda ash for sea weed, petroleum dug up by czarts, honey, high quality salt. A lot of high value goods. Possibly weapons. A high value hinterland.

Here is what I expect if I did a 5 year time skip for cities. (We would send explorers and traders to the Levant, not settlers).

1) We would reach Sicily which is supposed to have an NPC.
2) We would have reached Iberia which is supposed to have an NPC.
3) Trader Ulysses would have built a permanent trade port in Cyrene which is the only source of Silphium (very lucrative), the Romans could not transplant it. We might be able to, but we would have to grow it in greenhouses with dedicated rootboxes, not by seed.
4) Where Carthage was, we would a trade port in Carthage with the Berbers for livestock.
5) If we can make it to India, there are several trade ports on the way to Harappa and Mohenjodaro. (There would be the School in Harappa).
6) If we can make it to Arabia, we can get to Aden.
7) There is Egypt, Nubia is below Egypt, below that is Alaroma in Aksum.
8 ) There is Troy which is a port.
9) There is Crete which has the Minoans, we trade with the Minoans and do not conquer them.
10) There would be ports on the Black Sea, specifically, the (Chaldoi) Chalybi would interest us. They were identified as the earliest iron smiths by classical writers. This is a bit legendary.

Some of the cities that would exist would be:

Byblos Lebanon
Aleppo-- Syria
Damascus-- Syria
Rey Iran
Susa Iran
Abydos Egypt
Memphis Egypt
Faiyum Egypt
Luxor Egypt
Beirut-- Lebanon
Sidon-- Lebanon
Jericho-- Jordan
Plovdiv-- Bulgaria
Kirkuk Mesopotamia
Uruk Mesopotamia
Ur Mesopotamia
Eridu Mesopotamia
Gaziantep Anatolia
Argos Greece -- cycled between city and village
Maydanets-- Ukraine-- Cucuteni
Talianki-- Ukraine-- Cucuteni
Mohenjo-Daro-- India
Harappa-- India
Xian-- China

[Joohan]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

[Joohan]

Here is what I expect if I did a 5 year time skip for cities. (We would send explorers and traders to the Levant, not settlers).

1) We would reach Sicily which is supposed to have an NPC.
2) We would have reached Iberia which is supposed to have an NPC.
3) Trader Ulysses would have built a permanent trade port in Cyrene which is the only source of Silphium (very lucrative), the Romans could not transplant it. We might be able to, but we would have to grow it in greenhouses with dedicated rootboxes, not by seed.
4) Where Carthage was, we would a trade port in Carthage with the Berbers for livestock.
5) If we can make it to India, there are several trade ports on the way to Harappa and Mohenjodaro. (There would be the School in Harappa).
6) If we can make it to Arabia, we can get to Aden.
7) There is Egypt, Nubia is below Egypt, below that is Alaroma in Aksum.
There is Troy which is a port.
9) There is Crete which has the Minoans, we trade with the Minoans and do not conquer them.
10) There would be ports on the Black Sea, specifically, the (Chaldoi) Chalybi would interest us. They were identified as the earliest iron smiths by classical writers. This is a bit legendary.

Some of the cities that would exist would be:

Byblos Lebanon
Aleppo-- Syria
Damascus-- Syria
Rey Iran
Susa Iran
Abydos Egypt
Memphis Egypt
Faiyum Egypt
Luxor Egypt
Beirut-- Lebanon
Sidon-- Lebanon
Jericho-- Jordan
Plovdiv-- Bulgaria
Kirkuk Mesopotamia
Uruk Mesopotamia
Ur Mesopotamia
Eridu Mesopotamia
Gaziantep Anatolia
Argos Greece -- cycled between city and village
Maydanets-- Ukraine-- Cucuteni
Talianki-- Ukraine-- Cucuteni
Mohenjo-Daro-- India
Harappa-- India
Xian-- China

I don't know about Nestos making it to India just yet - but i do like the city suggestions.

[Orostan]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

It doesn't look like many people want a 25 year time skip. I guess a ten year time skip is good enough for me. When you put up a new poll I'll vote for it.

[Endem]

By the way, after the fall of Gdansk Krystyn took whatever Czarts he had left and went full guerilla, just so that I have a pre-existing character to fall back to if my desert adventure goes south we don't kill off any authors, can I establish this as a lore tidbit for anybody looking for allies to destabilize the Imperium?

[G-Tech Corporation]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

Eh? What happened to a third of the professional army?

Also we only ever mobilized to 2%, but of course, that’s still a large demobilization.

[Joohan]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

Eh? What happened to a third of the professional army?

Also we only ever mobilized to 2%, but of course, that’s still a large demobilization.

As I recall 900 imperial soldiers died, of 3,000 professionals? Agreed upon Imperial population was 300,000, and y'all called up 15,000 levies. 300 / 15 = 20 i.e. 5% of the population.

[Joohan]

Oof, i'm at month 7 in my final wrap up post... and I still have three more to go. I am gonna take a break from writing for a bit. Try and get it up by tomorrow.

[Endem]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

Eh? What happened to a third of the professional army?

Also we only ever mobilized to 2%, but of course, that’s still a large demobilization.

I have a question, if you were planning to demobilize, why invade Gdansk again?

[G-Tech Corporation]

Eh? What happened to a third of the professional army?

Also we only ever mobilized to 2%, but of course, that’s still a large demobilization.

As I recall 900 imperial soldiers died, of 3,000 professionals? Agreed upon Imperial population was 300,000, and y'all called up 15,000 levies. 300 / 15 = 20 i.e. 5% of the population.

Died where? In Denmark?

Hm. I thought the Imperium’s population was closer to 1.2 million after the last timeskip.

[Orostan]

As I recall 900 imperial soldiers died, of 3,000 professionals? Agreed upon Imperial population was 300,000, and y'all called up 15,000 levies. 300 / 15 = 20 i.e. 5% of the population.

Died where? In Denmark?

Hm. I thought the Imperium’s population was closer to 1.2 million after the last timeskip.

Whoa what, one of the reasons I was told I couldn't be bigger was because the Imperium had only 300,000 people in it. You were in that telegram group.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Eh? What happened to a third of the professional army?

Also we only ever mobilized to 2%, but of course, that’s still a large demobilization.

I have a question, if you were planning to demobilize, why invade Gdansk again?

More or less, because the soldiers were there, and Vladimir wanted a campaign under his belt after his coronation. That, combined with the stories of the Czarts and appeals from locals.

[Endem]

I have a question, if you were planning to demobilize, why invade Gdansk again?

More or less, because the soldiers were there, and Vladimir wanted a campaign under his belt after his coronation. That, combined with the stories of the Czarts and appeals from locals.

What appeals, of the ones who joined diplomatically and got showered with everything Gdansk's civilization had to offer, or the ones who refused and did not live to see another day?

[Joohan]

Died where? In Denmark?

Well, and the myriad battles fought all over the Baltic. 900 was the agreed number if I recall. Plzn could back me up on this.

I thought the Imperium’s population was closer to 1.2 million after the last timeskip.

Heaven's no! I remember we had quite a discussion on this. Pulling up the population numbers back from the last OOC, the Imperium concerned itself with the following.

Germany 182,000
Czechoslovakia 61,000
Hungary 18,000
Poland 27,000
Romania 49,000
Yugoslavia 91,000

for Germany we considered half the population to be residing in the imperium, half of Czechoslovakia ( obviously the Czech part ), I think half or a majority of Hungary, a fifth of Poland, and a fifth of Yugoslavia ( Serbia ). These numbers were combined together, and then given an annual growth rate of 2% each year for 25 years, we came out to around ~300,000.

[Ralnis]

I still don't know what to do for the Sumerian Empire and what to even world build about. A lot of my storylines have been thrown out or even forgotten.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

Idk johan it seems to me like you have a LOT of internal stuff to get through before you engage in more external wars... most pressing to me being the ramifications of icedonia’s sex slavery and resentment among the general population

[Joohan]

I still don't know what to do for the Sumerian Empire and what to even world build about. A lot of my storylines have been thrown out or even forgotten.

Consolidation of power under the holy dynasty, restructuring local power structures into a streamlined administration, reforming the military, formalize trading engagements, prepare for invasion's of the Persian gulf and Levant.

just read through a history of Persia for ideas.

[UniversalCommons]

What makes this even more interesting is that Harappa is in Pakistan, in the Indus Valley, supposedly around 3000 b.c. the Harappans traded with the Mesopotamians from Pakistan. They knew the route to Mesopotamia, not the other way around. The Harappans would have brought various trade goods like spices, lapis lazuli, carnelian, and other goods to the markets in Ur and Dilmun. In the story, Arjun a trader discusses mathematics and philosophy with one of the traders in the market, and they invite several scholars to come to India with them. There are currently two people in India Scholar Aprus and Warrior Ajax. They took a preset trade route by boat to Harappa. If you read the history, the Meluha had direct trade routes between India and Mesopotamia. This runs between 2600 and 2400 b.c. There is a lot of variation, but some of it as described as 3000 b.c. and it is described as a direct trade route. There are not going to be large numbers of people headed to Harappa or Mohenjo Daro and it is only going to be people that are invited by Guru Javin (we seek scholars and teachers for our school), or Arjun, I am a trader interested in philosophy, medicine, and science. There are going to be a few more people by invitation only (6-8) people are going to to be in India invited as teachers) We don't know how to get there. The Harappans do. Essentially Guru Javin is using the scholars to build a school.

[Joohan]

I honestly really would not like a 5 year skip. I am vying for 10 years. Reason being ( and this is just selfish on my part ), neither I nor the Imperium would really be able to do anything after just five years. Dusk Union is getting off of a year long draught, which is going to throw both Icedonia and Hibernia out of wack in all aspects for years - the Imperium is getting of the biggest war in their history, and has to deescalate 5% of their population after losing 1/3 of their professional army. By the year 2970, it's just gonna be us starring angrily at each other from across the morning sea and muttering curses, but not actually able to do anything because our countries are still being rebuilt.

Idk johan it seems to me like you have a LOT of internal stuff to get through before you engage in more external wars... most pressing to me being the ramifications of icedonia’s sex slavery and resentment among the general population

To be fair, the practice of conquered women was ceased after the the meeting at Snowdonia, as per the agreement of the Dusk Union. But really, what were they gonna do - tell their menfolk... oh wait!

I don't see my general populace rising up against me anytime soon. Most people joined Icedonia willingly, those resisted were genocided out of existence, and those who remained loyal are well and truly tied to the Service now - with riches, lands, and women being plenty motivation for continued support. As for resentment in the North beyond my border... i'm not too concerned. You'll perhaps better understand why, after my final post has been made.

Really though, my biggest concern is rebuilding and restructuring after the draught crisis.

Edit: also, i've never waged a war beyond my England.

[Plzen]

The Baltics would generally be a cultural and diplomatic mess, with enough instability after the sudden removal of Commonwealth troops that if the Imperium was willing enough to garrison the major pro-Commonwealth coastal towns and if the Imperium was willing to get bogged down in a few inconclusive quagmires in the countryside settling local disputes in the pro-Imperial factions’ favour, it’s not implausible to envision that the Commonwealth client states south of the Daugava would be turned into Imperial client states, or even Imperial provinces. Given how interventionist the Imperium has been to date I think both of those assumptions are entirely in line with Viktor’s personality as depicted.

Scandinavia proper north of the Dannevirke, though, I imagine would be culturally hostile and remain so for at least a couple generations. I’m inclined to agree that the area would eventually consolidate into city states and petty states unless there’s a second invasion of some sort by a nearby power - the Imperium can probably garrison and occupy the area if they wanted to, although it would certainly be costly, and Icedonia could plausibly lend support to some of the friendlier settlements and petty kingdoms to prevent exactly that.

I think it fairly ironic that the Imperium invaded nominally to civilise the Commonwealth’s customs, but in nearly all respects the chaos they leave behind would be, if anything, more violent, at least in the short term. :p

[Ralnis]

I still don't know what to do for the Sumerian Empire and what to even world build about. A lot of my storylines have been thrown out or even forgotten.

Consolidation of power under the holy dynasty, restructuring local power structures into a streamlined administration, reforming the military, formalize trading engagements, prepare for invasion's of the Persian gulf and Levant.

just read through a history of Persia for ideas.

I can do that, consolidating Ururk's kingdom and Levant colonies will be a storyline as Ur-Surtur tries to reestablish itself among the region and make formal alliances and trade with the Dilmunites and Elmaites. On top of making sure that everything is streamlined and stuff.

[Joohan]

The Baltics would generally be a cultural and diplomatic mess, with enough instability after the sudden removal of Commonwealth troops that if the Imperium was willing enough to garrison the major pro-Commonwealth coastal towns and if the Imperium was willing to get bogged down in a few inconclusive quagmires in the countryside settling local disputes in the pro-Imperial factions’ favour, it’s not implausible to envision that the Commonwealth client states south of the Daugava would be turned into Imperial client states, or even Imperial provinces. Given how interventionist the Imperium has been to date I think both of those assumptions are entirely in line with Viktor’s personality as depicted.

Scandinavia proper north of the Dannevirke, though, I imagine would be culturally hostile and remain so for at least a couple generations. I’m inclined to agree that the area would eventually consolidate into city states and petty kingdoms unless there’s a second invasion of some sort by a nearby power - the Imperium can probably garrison and occupy the area if they wanted to, although it would certainly be costly, and Icedonia could plausibly lend support to some of the friendlier settlements and petty kingdoms to prevent exactly that.

I think it fairly ironic that the Imperium invaded nominally to civilise the Commonwealth’s customs, but in nearly all respects the chaos they leave behind would be, if anything, more violent, at least in the short term.

Could you weigh in on the discussion of imperial casualties above?

[Plzen]

Could you weigh in on the discussion of imperial casualties above?

To be honest I forgot what sort of casualty statistics we were supposed to have, and I no longer have the relevant telegrams.

[Alaroma]

All fun

[Europa Undivided]

I have no idea what to do after ten years as there is just a huge distance between Moscow and everyone else.

Might as well have a different author and be with an existing civ.