New Civilizations ( world building and new era discussion )

[Joohan]

[Old OOC]- [Really Old OOC] - [IC] - [Author list] - [The New History Book]

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Topics of Discussion before the beginning of Era III:

Current Year
New Rules
New Gameplay mechanics
NPC civilizations
Character Application Update
The Map
Resolving conflicts since the Time Skip
Etc.

[Joohan]

Do not start posting maps. Absolutely not. No map shall come across this thread until after we have decided what year it is. The poll will stay up for two days, narrowing down the options by the end of today, until we have our two final contenders by tomorrow, in which case we shall decide the current year.

Till then, we move on to other matters of discussion.

[Orostan]

25 year time skip please. China will grow larger and the world will get more interesting. Contact with the western cultures will be very interesting and China will be a much more interesting place to RP in even on my own.

[G-Tech Corporation]

100% for 5 years. We're just firing up player to player contacts in the Mediterranean Basin, and there are plenty of stories which should be RPed out that need done.

[Orostan]

100% for 5 years. We're just firing up player to player contacts in the Mediterranean Basin, and there are plenty of stories which should be RPed out that need done.

The Imperium has just defeated its biggest enemy in the Commonwealth and the other player empires are relatively far away, right? Wouldn't a much longer time skip make those contacts across the Mediterranean more frequent and also mean the Imperium could have borders and interests with some of the more far off player empires that go beyond curiosity?

[Hatzic]

I don't wanna be stuck back in the stone age while the Bay Area has conquered most of California so...

[Joohan]

If I may, i'd like to start discussing the rise of actual NPC civ's. With the expansion and rise of proper Auth civ's across the world, I think it's time that actual opponents begin to rise against them in the form of native resistance. Places which are able to stand a chance, on account of technological diffusion. A few places I had in mind chiefly:

Seperate civ's in the east and west balkans
A fully realized Egypt
independent maritime cities rising up along the red sea
independent maritime cities rising up along the eastern Mediterranean
the Baltics
the Carpathians
west Germany/Benelux

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

[Joohan]

100% for 5 years. We're just firing up player to player contacts in the Mediterranean Basin, and there are plenty of stories which should be RPed out that need done.

The Imperium has just defeated its biggest enemy in the Commonwealth and the other player empires are relatively far away, right? Wouldn't a much longer time skip make those contacts across the Mediterranean more frequent and also mean the Imperium could have borders and interests with some of the more far off player empires that go beyond curiosity?

Dusk Union, Nestos, and crimea are all only like a day or two away at most.

[G-Tech Corporation]

100% for 5 years. We're just firing up player to player contacts in the Mediterranean Basin, and there are plenty of stories which should be RPed out that need done.

The Imperium has just defeated its biggest enemy in the Commonwealth and the other player empires are relatively far away, right? Wouldn't a much longer time skip make those contacts across the Mediterranean more frequent and also mean the Imperium could have borders and interests with some of the more far off player empires that go beyond curiosity?

Personally, I'm quite happy only having storylines going in Ireland, France, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Asia minor, and the Adriatic Coast. That sounds like plenty of work for me without adding in anywhere else.

[Hatzic]

If I may, i'd like to start discussing the rise of actual NPC civ's. With the expansion and rise of proper Auth civ's across the world, I think it's time that actual opponents begin to rise against them in the form of native resistance. Places which are able to stand a chance, on account of technological diffusion. A few places I had in mind chiefly:

Seperate civ's in the east and west balkans
A fully realized Egypt
independent maritime cities rising up along the red sea
independent maritime cities rising up along the eastern Mediterranean
the Baltics
the Carpathians
west Germany/Benelux

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

Still no NPC Civs in the Americas... cringe and ubased.

[Joohan]

If I may, i'd like to start discussing the rise of actual NPC civ's. With the expansion and rise of proper Auth civ's across the world, I think it's time that actual opponents begin to rise against them in the form of native resistance. Places which are able to stand a chance, on account of technological diffusion. A few places I had in mind chiefly:

Seperate civ's in the east and west balkans
A fully realized Egypt
independent maritime cities rising up along the red sea
independent maritime cities rising up along the eastern Mediterranean
the Baltics
the Carpathians
west Germany/Benelux

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

Still no NPC Civs in the Americas... cringe and ubased.

There is only 1 guy in America right now, and he hasn't posted in months.

[Orostan]

If I may, i'd like to start discussing the rise of actual NPC civ's. With the expansion and rise of proper Auth civ's across the world, I think it's time that actual opponents begin to rise against them in the form of native resistance. Places which are able to stand a chance, on account of technological diffusion. A few places I had in mind chiefly:

Seperate civ's in the east and west balkans
A fully realized Egypt
independent maritime cities rising up along the red sea
independent maritime cities rising up along the eastern Mediterranean
the Baltics
the Carpathians
west Germany/Benelux

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

This is a good idea and I want a lot of this in Asia. I think that Anatolia and southern France should also host NPC civilizations as well.

In China I want to put up some break away states from the Chinese Empire, some Yue trading city states along the Chinese coast, and the beginnings of a Korean civilization as well as some northern nomads that will cause problems later. RPing the 'unification' of China will be fun.

The Imperium has just defeated its biggest enemy in the Commonwealth and the other player empires are relatively far away, right? Wouldn't a much longer time skip make those contacts across the Mediterranean more frequent and also mean the Imperium could have borders and interests with some of the more far off player empires that go beyond curiosity?

Dusk Union, Nestos, and crimea are all only like a day or two away at most.

Yes, but would the Imperium actually have interests there in as little as five years? If we make a twenty five year skip there will be much more established trade networks and European empires will be rubbing borders with each other.

[G-Tech Corporation]

The Imperium has just defeated its biggest enemy in the Commonwealth and the other player empires are relatively far away, right? Wouldn't a much longer time skip make those contacts across the Mediterranean more frequent and also mean the Imperium could have borders and interests with some of the more far off player empires that go beyond curiosity?

Dusk Union, Nestos, and crimea are all only like a day or two away at most.

Yeah, we directly share borders with Hibernia in Armorica, the Associations in northern Romania, and Nestos in both southern Romania and Albania, depending on how the Illyrians end up. Only in Illyria are those connections not direct riparian highways.

If I may, i'd like to start discussing the rise of actual NPC civ's. With the expansion and rise of proper Auth civ's across the world, I think it's time that actual opponents begin to rise against them in the form of native resistance. Places which are able to stand a chance, on account of technological diffusion. A few places I had in mind chiefly:

Seperate civ's in the east and west balkans
A fully realized Egypt
independent maritime cities rising up along the red sea
independent maritime cities rising up along the eastern Mediterranean
the Baltics
the Carpathians
west Germany/Benelux

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

I can't see any problems with any of those, minus the west/south Baltics - those were directly annexed by the Imperium out from under the Commonwealth occupation, more or less. You could probably make an argument for something in Latvia or Estonia, who were capable of both throwing off the Commonwealth yoke and uninterested in integration though.

You might want to talk to New Arcadius about Egypt though. I think she was basically just waiting around for a timeskip to justify her continuing process of overrunning Egypt with Siwans... however that was going to happen.

You should probably also consult with Caines about the East Balkans though. He seems to be under the impressions that the settled peoples there, including most of the Tribal Alliance and the Cucuteni, were going to be part of the Associations after the timeskip.

[Lazarian]

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

I've thought about bringing Mark back in the wake of the Commonwealth's collapse, though it seems like any state that rose up would inevitably become a client state of the Imperium.

[Joohan]

I can't see any problems with any of those, minus the west/south Baltics - those were directly annexed by the Imperium out from under the Commonwealth occupation, more or less.

I thought more on the less side from what I was reading. Weren't they just taken over as an emergency measure by the Imperium during the war? I didn't think that the Imperium would actually intend to occupy an area so far out of it's way, and so linked to an enemy civilization.

You should probably also consult with Caines about the East Balkans though. He seems to be under the impressions that the settled peoples there, including most of the Tribal Alliance and the Cucuteni, were going to be part of the Associations after the timeskip.

I intend to.

[Joohan]

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

I've thought about bringing Mark back in the wake of the Commonwealth's collapse, though it seems like any state that rose up would inevitably become a client state of the Imperium.

I envisioned a kind of dark age arising in Scandinavia. Republics breaking down into smaller states ran by powerful settlements and cities. Everyone's angry, everyone's a veteran, there's no government, and there are ton's of weapons lying around everywhere. Like Afghanistan in 1992, or Dacia throughout Roman history- no one really want's to touch it, besides just pushing it away from them.

[G-Tech Corporation]

and perhaps some situation arising in Scandanavia proper.

what do y'all think?

I've thought about bringing Mark back in the wake of the Commonwealth's collapse, though it seems like any state that rose up would inevitably become a client state of the Imperium.

Quite the opposite. I'd wager Scandinavia is going to be a mess of infighting, raiding, warlordism, and generalized chaos for at least a generation or two. We don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.

I thought more on the less side from what I was reading. Weren't they just taken over as an emergency measure by the Imperium during the war? I didn't think that the Imperium would actually intend to occupy an area so far out of it's way, and so linked to an enemy civilization.

Ish. More the Imperium sponsored localized uprisings and the local tribes in throwing off the Commonwealth settlers and slavers, after the Commonwealth garrisons were withdrawn to the fighting in Denmark. There's probably an unholy patchwork of Republics and Imperiums where the Great Companies didn't actually set foot, with local tribes aping the customs of their neighbors, but in the areas where the soldiers actually traveled, integration was the rule of thumb. We actually had a good land/river route there up the rivers from the interior of Poland, and with Gdansk settled, also a direct sea route.

[Joohan]

I've thought about bringing Mark back in the wake of the Commonwealth's collapse, though it seems like any state that rose up would inevitably become a client state of the Imperium.

Quite the opposite. I'd wager Scandinavia is going to be a mess of infighting, raiding, warlordism, and generalized chaos for at least a generation or two. We don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole.

I thought more on the less side from what I was reading. Weren't they just taken over as an emergency measure by the Imperium during the war? I didn't think that the Imperium would actually intend to occupy an area so far out of it's way, and so linked to an enemy civilization.

Ish. More the Imperium sponsored localized uprisings and the local tribes in throwing off the Commonwealth settlers and slavers, after the Commonwealth garrisons were withdrawn to the fighting in Denmark. There's probably an unholy patchwork of Republics and Imperiums where the Great Companies didn't actually set foot, with local tribes aping the customs of their neighbors, but in the areas where the soldiers actually traveled, integration was the rule of thumb. We actually had a good land/river route there up the rivers from the interior of Poland, and with Gdansk settled, also a direct sea route.

Integration? Those area's are no doubt more Nordic than they are imperial - certainly the settled areas. Gdansk likewise would be incredible hostile to occupation. Be a bit like Armenia between the Romans and Sassanids, only with less religious cohesion.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Integration? Those area's are no doubt more Nordic than they are imperial - certainly the settled areas. Gdansk likewise would be incredible hostile to occupation. Be a bit like Armenia between the Romans and Sassanids, only with less religious cohesion.

Oh they aren't Imperial - but they're more anti-Nordic than anything else. The Commonwealth pursued a process of colonization from Scandinavia, and enslaving, only integrating those who accepted the settlers, if memory serves. That should have made the coast rather happy to be rid of their yoke. Gdansk, also, I don't see being particularly hostile - aside from the city itself. The small area of the Federation was conquered by force and the terror of the Czarts, as well as poison and torture. And I bet the use of an unaccountable terror force within the city itself probably didn't make the government overly popular with the average Gdansker.

That aside, both Gdansk and the integrated Baltics face a demographic problem - being depopulated from war and enslavement. Even if there are hostile elements knocking about in terms of Imperial rule, we're talking a few dozen malcontents. The strategic position of Gdansk easily justifies a garrison capable of keeping a lid on any Czart-sympathizers.

[Saxony-Brandenburg]

I voted for 5 years for reasons aformentioned

[Endem]

Integration? Those area's are no doubt more Nordic than they are imperial - certainly the settled areas. Gdansk likewise would be incredible hostile to occupation. Be a bit like Armenia between the Romans and Sassanids, only with less religious cohesion.

Oh they aren't Imperial - but they're more anti-Nordic than anything else. The Commonwealth pursued a process of colonization from Scandinavia, and enslaving, only integrating those who accepted the settlers, if memory serves. That should have made the coast rather happy to be rid of their yoke. Gdansk, also, I don't see being particularly hostile - aside from the city itself. The small area of the Federation was conquered by force and the terror of the Czarts, as well as poison and torture. And I bet the use of an unaccountable terror force within the city itself probably didn't make the government overly popular with the average Gdansker.

That aside, both Gdansk and the integrated Baltics face a demographic problem - being depopulated from war and enslavement. Even if there are hostile elements knocking about in terms of Imperial rule, we're talking a few dozen malcontents. The strategic position of Gdansk easily justifies a garrison capable of keeping a lid on any Czart-sympathizers.

One thing to note, Czart's served as the terror force on some occasion, on most occasions they were like a more gruesome police, they may have exterminated villages, but that only happened to villages that refused to join the Federation through diplomatic means

[Joohan]

Integration? Those area's are no doubt more Nordic than they are imperial - certainly the settled areas. Gdansk likewise would be incredible hostile to occupation. Be a bit like Armenia between the Romans and Sassanids, only with less religious cohesion.

Oh they aren't Imperial - but they're more anti-Nordic than anything else. The Commonwealth pursued a process of colonization from Scandinavia, and enslaving, only integrating those who accepted the settlers, if memory serves. That should have made the coast rather happy to be rid of their yoke. Gdansk, also, I don't see being particularly hostile - aside from the city itself. The small area of the Federation was conquered by force and the terror of the Czarts, as well as poison and torture. And I bet the use of an unaccountable terror force within the city itself probably didn't make the government overly popular with the average Gdansker.

That aside, both Gdansk and the integrated Baltics face a demographic problem - being depopulated from war and enslavement. Even if there are hostile elements knocking about in terms of Imperial rule, we're talking a few dozen malcontents. The strategic position of Gdansk easily justifies a garrison capable of keeping a lid on any Czart-sympathizers.

But didn't Imperial forces attack specifically those area's settled by the Commonwealth? Unless i'm mistaken, the imperium wasn't going about integrating those people's unassociated with the the Commonwealth. That would leave only those settlements in the far north of the Baltics, and Gdansk. In the case of the former colonies at Estonia and Lativa, of course the Imperium is going to face resistance to occupation, there, as the people are more friendly to the Nords.

The rest of the baltics might be grateful to the Imperium, but they're not being occupied, and indeed, stand at the cross roads between two different civilizations, and would be the beneficiaries to a vast amount of technological diffusion - unless i'm missing something.

[G-Tech Corporation]

But didn't Imperial forces attack specifically those area's settled by the Commonwealth? Unless i'm mistaken, the imperium wasn't going about integrating those people's unassociated with the the Commonwealth. That would leave only those settlements in the far north of the Baltics, and Gdansk. In the case of the former colonies at Estonia and Lativa, of course the Imperium is going to face resistance to occupation, there, as the people are more friendly to the Nords.

The rest of the baltics might be grateful to the Imperium, but they're not being occupied, and indeed, stand at the cross roads between two different civilizations, and would be the beneficiaries to a vast amount of technological diffusion - unless i'm missing something.

I might be wrong, but I believe the Commonwealth held, at one point, effective control over the entirety of the Baltics east of Gdansk below the Gulf of Finland. The Imperium expelled those local militias and governments that the Commonwealth had set up, but I doubt there was much in terms of genuine military conflict, given the formal Guards there withdrawn to Denmark.

So, you're right in that the Imperium wouldn't have gone about integrating peoples unassociated with the Commonwealth. I imagine the band of control only extends a few dozens miles from the sea, if that. But it did replace the occupying forces, setting up local entities as Wardens and Firstmen, after the standard Imperial customs. You could probably technically consider it vassalage instead of integration, like most of the Imperium, since we didn't bring in outside people.

If you're talking about the tribes further inland, where the Commonwealth never got to, then yes - those peoples are not under Imperial governance, save where they might have voluntarily integrated. It isn't our way to show up and just start killing until people bow down, at least not most of the time.

[Ralnis]

Don't know what to do other than centralize for the next five years and start rebuilding with an industrial mind. I've lost a lot of influence and alliances so making friends is better than nothing I guess. Having the industrial economy go into full hydro-powered revolution and the emancipation of slaves in favor of primitive automation but still have debt-labor is better than nothing. I'll look towards uniting people and focusing on industrializing the rest of Mesopotamia at the start. Maybe, I don't know for any storylines or anything honestly.

[Joohan]

But didn't Imperial forces attack specifically those area's settled by the Commonwealth? Unless i'm mistaken, the imperium wasn't going about integrating those people's unassociated with the the Commonwealth. That would leave only those settlements in the far north of the Baltics, and Gdansk. In the case of the former colonies at Estonia and Lativa, of course the Imperium is going to face resistance to occupation, there, as the people are more friendly to the Nords.

The rest of the baltics might be grateful to the Imperium, but they're not being occupied, and indeed, stand at the cross roads between two different civilizations, and would be the beneficiaries to a vast amount of technological diffusion - unless i'm missing something.

I might be wrong, but I believe the Commonwealth held, at one point, effective control over the entirety of the Baltics east of Gdansk below the Gulf of Finland. The Imperium expelled those local militias and governments that the Commonwealth had set up, but I doubt there was much in terms of genuine military conflict, given the formal Guards there withdrawn to Denmark.

So, you're right in that the Imperium wouldn't have gone about integrating peoples unassociated with the Commonwealth. I imagine the band of control only extends a few dozens miles from the sea, if that. But it did replace the occupying forces, setting up local entities as Wardens and Firstmen, after the standard Imperial customs. You could probably technically consider it vassalage instead of integration, like most of the Imperium, since we didn't bring in outside people.

If you're talking about the tribes further inland, where the Commonwealth never got to, then yes - those peoples are not under Imperial governance, save where they might have voluntarily integrated. It isn't our way to show up and just start killing until people bow down, at least not most of the time.

We'd have to ask Plzn about that, I wasn't tracking anything beyond Estonia and Lativa - save for some trading with local native settlements along the coast.