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Apocalypse: 1936 (PT/OOC/OPEN)

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Spiritual Republic of Caryton
Diplomat
 
Posts: 506
Founded: Jun 25, 2019
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Spiritual Republic of Caryton » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:05 pm

Aserais wrote:
Spiritual Republic of Caryton wrote:
Remnants of what the Americans left circa like 1934-1935, plus a few reverse engineered copies but due to Sonoran Superstate's infancy, the copies aren't that numerous, especially when Grant ordered the prioritization of anti-air assets to be mass manufactured to counter balance the strength of America's remnant airforce. Sonora's anti-air capabilities definitely dwarf it's air capabilities, but that doesn't mean their air force is weak. Just prioritized for defense and whatever threats Grant makes of oblivion.


Okay, so here's what I've got. Over the last two months, the RSM has been preparing for a push into Sonora and Baja cali, laying down rail lines, setting up and hiding artillery emplacements, moving air force assets into the former anarchic states as they were taking them. Sonora getting invaded by arizona sped up a timeline that they were already on to capture former Mexican territory.

So you're going to be facing down the 5th, 2nd, and 3rd army, totaling 350,000 men, the 5th-12th Air groups, totaling 750~ish fighters and 400~ish bombers, and three carrier groups with a near identical compisition to the 1st Pacific Carrier Group, including the ARSM Águila, which is the biggest and baddest carrier the RSM has, and the ARSM Tenochtitlan, which carries 4 batteries of three 15" guns apiece, not to mention subs, destroyers, minesweepers and heavy cruisers.

Now, in order to write this next post, I kinda need to know what I'm throwing these guys into, and how effective these defenses are. What do you think would be an acceptable level of advancement from Mexico into Sonora, and what kind of losses should I be looking at?


That's a lot of shit you got there lol.

Arizona, due to its authoritarian status, has a conscription rate of 5% of men and women. From AZ and Baja, that leaves me with about 121,000 - 125,000 give or take. The militia comprises about 10% of the population and receives regular training, meaning there are a regularly trained home defensive force of 250,000. However, these are based on local levels and will not come into play once you get into Arizona. Until then, they merely send in a couple of volunteer companies, as you've seen with the cavalry and skirmishers. If you get deep into Arizona, that's when all the orwellian "every man, woman, child, and baby a soldier" shit happens but again that's far into the future. Since Arizona is focusing its resources on protecting the state and Baja, I'd say out of fairness that there are only 20,000-25,000 regulars + about 10,000 civilian militants.

By the time fighting starts, I assume the rest of Sonora capitulates at the loss of Ciudad Obrenga after the blatant genocide at Hermosillo. Initially, you'd be looking at around 40,000 irregularly armed and trained members of the Sonoran Volunteer Force - which is again captured insurgents at gunpoint along with anti-communists, the few sympathizers of Grant, men and women just sick of anarchy, and virtually anybody who has a functional gun. You'll encounter more of them near the central areas of the state, but at the border, they've minelayed and put traps around, but their entrenchments are virtually shallow due to only being overseen by a couple of divisions of secret police units. If you do advance into the country, they'll be easy to defeat due to shifty loyalties and poor training. However, my goal isn't to use them to achieve military victory, but to whittle your numbers down to something more manageable, say about 275,000.

Central Sonora is where the fighting takes a toll for both of us, namely because its desert environment is harsher than that of Arizona proper during the summer, as well as the fact that you'd face the 15th Armored Division head on as well as the 30,000-35,000 men give or take, plus the rest of Sonora's armed population in that SVF penal squad. Even if that SVF numbered 100,000 in the populated areas, that still puts you at a numerical advantage. Either the biggest battles or the biggest stalemate happens here, we can decide later on!

As for Baja California, the construction of coastal batteries along vital port cities has been undergoing for a short period of time, but the cannons are there and with about like 1 month of preparation, defenses are in their infancy but that doesn't mean an attempt at amphibious invasion would go unchallenged or unhindered. In 1936, the Baja Peninsula is admittedly depopulated, so I'd say I would only have a garrison of about 20,000 there, dug in deep and spread evenly across the centers I need to protect while the rural areas go largely ignored. It's there you'd also see the full force of Arizona's new navy. It's largely made up of patrol craft, torpedo boats, submarines, light frigates, and other anti-ship assets. Chances are they won't face your fleets head on but will whittle your numbers down along the way, bombard your beachheads, and harass your navy to keep it distracted once you do eventually land troops.

In the field of air force, you would also be at a good advantage as Timothy Grant listened to his Air Marshal and kept all planes on defensive flights in Arizona to scare away Americans and maintain air superiority in core regions. It's also in Arizona proper that the overbearing anti air cannons are also present. However, in Sonora, AA is minimal but strategically placed in well entrenched positions in both Central Sonora and the border regions. They can hold their own against your planes in individual battles definitely, but if they run out of ammunition, you'd basically win the air fight in city after city, with AA assets gradually increasing.

tl;dr: you start off great but fighting gets more desperate the more north you go, leaving you more open to casualties.
Last edited by Spiritual Republic of Caryton on Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Spiritual Republic of Caryton
(CARYTON VIDEO)
A serene & puritan 80s-90s tech agrarian Christian fundamentalist nation with no separation between church and state. Wide prairies, fertile plains, archaic clothing, clean skies, lack of modern influence, universal prohibition, kind societies, and simple austere lives forge the Carytonic identity.
Music of Caryton: [8-29-22] Classic Carytonic Sing-Along Hymns

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Aserais
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Founded: Apr 12, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Aserais » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:43 pm

The war has begun

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Monsone
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Monsone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:49 pm

Aserais wrote:The war has begun

So you're going to war against Sonora. But what is the status with the USA?
Mohn-sohn-eh

Nuclear Power, Electric Vehicles, Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, High-Speed Rail, Social Services, Public Transit, Social Democracy, and Social Democracy.

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Aserais
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Founded: Apr 12, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Aserais » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:51 pm

Monsone wrote:
Aserais wrote:The war has begun

So you're going to war against Sonora. But what is the status with the USA?


As of now? They have no plans to go to war with the USA, or even invade Arizona. But they have told the USA to reign in Arizona or the RSM will have to, in order to protect their citizens.

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Monsone
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Founded: Apr 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Monsone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:54 pm

Aserais wrote:
Monsone wrote:So you're going to war against Sonora. But what is the status with the USA?


As of now? They have no plans to go to war with the USA, or even invade Arizona. But they have told the USA to reign in Arizona or the RSM will have to, in order to protect their citizens.


Good to know as to plot out my next few moves of who to cozy up to on the global stage.
Mohn-sohn-eh

Nuclear Power, Electric Vehicles, Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, High-Speed Rail, Social Services, Public Transit, Social Democracy, and Social Democracy.

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Dahyan
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Posts: 835
Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahyan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:58 pm

Damn it, I hate these time zone differences. I always wake up to massive developments that happened overnight. Got some reading up to do.
Your friendly neighbourhood Muslim Communist
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality

More about the Zaydi Islamic school of thought: https://imgur.com/a/I3Vy5RD
http://zaydiya.blogspot.com/2009/10/zai ... idism.html
News from the Yemeni revolutionary struggle against Saudi-led invasion: https://uprising.today/

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Plzen
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Founded: Mar 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Plzen » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:59 pm

Dahyan wrote:Damn it, I hate these time zone differences. I always wake up to massive developments that happened overnight. Got some reading up to do.

Same...

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Dahyan
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahyan » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:59 pm

Monsone wrote:
Aserais wrote:
As of now? They have no plans to go to war with the USA, or even invade Arizona. But they have told the USA to reign in Arizona or the RSM will have to, in order to protect their citizens.


Good to know as to plot out my next few moves of who to cozy up to on the global stage.


I mean, it should be quite obvious who the USSR should support in a conflict between a Socialist state and one of the leading imperialist powers in the world...
Your friendly neighbourhood Muslim Communist
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality

More about the Zaydi Islamic school of thought: https://imgur.com/a/I3Vy5RD
http://zaydiya.blogspot.com/2009/10/zai ... idism.html
News from the Yemeni revolutionary struggle against Saudi-led invasion: https://uprising.today/

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Aserais
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Founded: Apr 12, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Aserais » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:30 am

BTW, the RSM's army is currently a 1.75% of the population, which places it at 2,642,500 Soldiers. Just realized I never put that down lmao

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Dahyan
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahyan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:12 am

New post is up. The NOI made a little proposal to Mexico.
Your friendly neighbourhood Muslim Communist
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality

More about the Zaydi Islamic school of thought: https://imgur.com/a/I3Vy5RD
http://zaydiya.blogspot.com/2009/10/zai ... idism.html
News from the Yemeni revolutionary struggle against Saudi-led invasion: https://uprising.today/

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Union Princes
Senator
 
Posts: 3601
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Union Princes » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:08 am

so are we coordinating an offensive or not?
There is no such thing as peace, only truce between wars

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Monsone
Minister
 
Posts: 2848
Founded: Apr 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Monsone » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:20 am

Dahyan wrote:
Monsone wrote:
Good to know as to plot out my next few moves of who to cozy up to on the global stage.


I mean, it should be quite obvious who the USSR should support in a conflict between a Socialist state and one of the leading imperialist powers in the world...


The answer actually isn't obvious. The USSR benefits from being allied with the USA. And considering the USSR really doesn't like Mexico, the "right" choice isn't obvious.
Mohn-sohn-eh

Nuclear Power, Electric Vehicles, Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, High-Speed Rail, Social Services, Public Transit, Social Democracy, and Social Democracy.

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Plzen
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Founded: Mar 19, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Plzen » Wed Aug 12, 2020 6:59 am

IC post up. People who are used to talking about the same things with the same people over and over again can get what they want to say across without having to actually say what they mean, and I've tried to depict that here - in this timeline Stauning and Andersson are old comrades who have been doing this for years, after all. Both men say the minimum words necessary to raise the arguments they want to raise without bothering each other by unnecessarily explaining the (to them) obvious.

I also deliberately refrained from explaining everything that's going on between the lines, so to speak. I tried to keep a sense of mystery, intentionally leaving comments unexplained so that you guys can't fully understand what every line in that conversation means, but still leave enough hints to give you all a general idea of what that was about and what issues these two men disagree on.

Let me know if you feel that I was successful in striking that balance in my IC post.
Last edited by Plzen on Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Spiritual Republic of Caryton
Diplomat
 
Posts: 506
Founded: Jun 25, 2019
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Spiritual Republic of Caryton » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:11 am

Will post on the Arizona war later tonight, or tomorrow. I'm especially tired but I think I'll come around later.
The Spiritual Republic of Caryton
(CARYTON VIDEO)
A serene & puritan 80s-90s tech agrarian Christian fundamentalist nation with no separation between church and state. Wide prairies, fertile plains, archaic clothing, clean skies, lack of modern influence, universal prohibition, kind societies, and simple austere lives forge the Carytonic identity.
Music of Caryton: [8-29-22] Classic Carytonic Sing-Along Hymns

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Dahyan
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Posts: 835
Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahyan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:31 am

Monsone wrote:
Dahyan wrote:
I mean, it should be quite obvious who the USSR should support in a conflict between a Socialist state and one of the leading imperialist powers in the world...


The answer actually isn't obvious. The USSR benefits from being allied with the USA. And considering the USSR really doesn't like Mexico, the "right" choice isn't obvious.


The US is a failing state that is falling apart on all sides, and even though there is no Cold War going on, is definitely not a friend of Socialism. What sort of benefits could be won from friendship with Al Smith?

On the other side, Mexico is a clear Socialist powerhouse in the Americas, and apart from having Trotsky around has no real beef with the Soviets at all. So I don't really see where you're coming from.
Your friendly neighbourhood Muslim Communist
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality

More about the Zaydi Islamic school of thought: https://imgur.com/a/I3Vy5RD
http://zaydiya.blogspot.com/2009/10/zai ... idism.html
News from the Yemeni revolutionary struggle against Saudi-led invasion: https://uprising.today/

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Monsone
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Monsone » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:56 am

Dahyan wrote:
Monsone wrote:
The answer actually isn't obvious. The USSR benefits from being allied with the USA. And considering the USSR really doesn't like Mexico, the "right" choice isn't obvious.


The US is a failing state that is falling apart on all sides, and even though there is no Cold War going on, is definitely not a friend of Socialism. What sort of benefits could be won from friendship with Al Smith?

On the other side, Mexico is a clear Socialist powerhouse in the Americas, and apart from having Trotsky around has no real beef with the Soviets at all. So I don't really see where you're coming from.


The USA has a much larger industrial base, and much better scientific and technological expertise than Mexico. Not to mention, the USA is home to mass production on a vast scale. While Mexico still has some of that, if the USA collapses, the USSR could just buy some of the technology up to "save it."

Mexico offers some, but no all of those benefits. Plus the hard selling point is Trotsky. Now while it might seemed flawed from the American perspective, if the USA collapses, the USSR will greatly benefit from close ties to the USA. Skilled laborers, factory equipment, scientists, etc. cold all flee to the USSR is the USA collapses, and that's the biggest benefit. Additionally, Mexico is supporting China, who just denounced the USSR. Stalin has not taken this too kindly, so if becoming close to Mexico was next to unlikely before, now it's probably never going to happen.
Mohn-sohn-eh

Nuclear Power, Electric Vehicles, Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, High-Speed Rail, Social Services, Public Transit, Social Democracy, and Social Democracy.

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Wasi State
Diplomat
 
Posts: 843
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Wasi State » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:56 am

Union Princes wrote:so are we coordinating an offensive or not?

Well considering I did made a basic map earlier of the state, anyone is free to edit it to their vision of what's going on with all these factions.
Chedastan Puppet

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Dahyan
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Posts: 835
Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Dahyan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:21 am

Monsone wrote:
Dahyan wrote:
The US is a failing state that is falling apart on all sides, and even though there is no Cold War going on, is definitely not a friend of Socialism. What sort of benefits could be won from friendship with Al Smith?

On the other side, Mexico is a clear Socialist powerhouse in the Americas, and apart from having Trotsky around has no real beef with the Soviets at all. So I don't really see where you're coming from.


The USA has a much larger industrial base, and much better scientific and technological expertise than Mexico. Not to mention, the USA is home to mass production on a vast scale. While Mexico still has some of that, if the USA collapses, the USSR could just buy some of the technology up to "save it."

Mexico offers some, but no all of those benefits. Plus the hard selling point is Trotsky. Now while it might seemed flawed from the American perspective, if the USA collapses, the USSR will greatly benefit from close ties to the USA. Skilled laborers, factory equipment, scientists, etc. cold all flee to the USSR is the USA collapses, and that's the biggest benefit. Additionally, Mexico is supporting China, who just denounced the USSR. Stalin has not taken this too kindly, so if becoming close to Mexico was next to unlikely before, now it's probably never going to happen.


"Mexico supports China, which just condemned us" is quite a weak reason to decide to abandon basic solidarity with another Socialist state. But okay.
Your friendly neighbourhood Muslim Communist
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality

More about the Zaydi Islamic school of thought: https://imgur.com/a/I3Vy5RD
http://zaydiya.blogspot.com/2009/10/zai ... idism.html
News from the Yemeni revolutionary struggle against Saudi-led invasion: https://uprising.today/

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Monsone
Minister
 
Posts: 2848
Founded: Apr 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Monsone » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:27 am

Dahyan wrote:
Monsone wrote:
The USA has a much larger industrial base, and much better scientific and technological expertise than Mexico. Not to mention, the USA is home to mass production on a vast scale. While Mexico still has some of that, if the USA collapses, the USSR could just buy some of the technology up to "save it."

Mexico offers some, but no all of those benefits. Plus the hard selling point is Trotsky. Now while it might seemed flawed from the American perspective, if the USA collapses, the USSR will greatly benefit from close ties to the USA. Skilled laborers, factory equipment, scientists, etc. cold all flee to the USSR is the USA collapses, and that's the biggest benefit. Additionally, Mexico is supporting China, who just denounced the USSR. Stalin has not taken this too kindly, so if becoming close to Mexico was next to unlikely before, now it's probably never going to happen.


"Mexico supports China, which just condemned us" is quite a weak reason to decide to abandon basic solidarity with another Socialist state. But okay.


IRL the USSR really concentrated on socialism in one country during this time period. And frankly, a strong USA could be beneficial to the USSR in a multitude of ways. Frankly speaking though, the USSR's biggest concerns are internal concerns.
Mohn-sohn-eh

Nuclear Power, Electric Vehicles, Single-Payer Universal Healthcare, High-Speed Rail, Social Services, Public Transit, Social Democracy, and Social Democracy.

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New Sriker
Envoy
 
Posts: 344
Founded: Jul 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Sriker » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:42 am

Wasi State wrote:
Union Princes wrote:so are we coordinating an offensive or not?

Well considering I did made a basic map earlier of the state, anyone is free to edit it to their vision of what's going on with all these factions.

Nothing has really changed besides more of the Southeast is freed, I really want to launch an offensive, but some how these Spartan worshiping fellas are as skilled at the Vietcong

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Domerstresseistan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 147
Founded: Aug 03, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Domerstresseistan » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:04 pm

Btw NOI I completely razed, depopulated and burned down Billings before your arrival according to my app ;) Just an fyi

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Union Princes
Senator
 
Posts: 3601
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Union Princes » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:12 pm

So we're not coordinating an offensive?
There is no such thing as peace, only truce between wars

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New Sriker
Envoy
 
Posts: 344
Founded: Jul 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Sriker » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:15 pm

Domerstresseistan wrote:Btw NOI I completely razed, depopulated and burned down Billings before your arrival according to my app ;) Just an fyi

Again, Sounds really convenient, same as the you know whole 3,000 man ambush on the Longists. You really have to post at least a sentence supporting these claims IC man, or no one's gonna trust em
Last edited by New Sriker on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wasi State
Diplomat
 
Posts: 843
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Wasi State » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:16 pm

Union Princes wrote:So we're not coordinating an offensive?

I assumed there was sorta one? Just generally making counter-offensives until Coalition forces rendezvous with the Feds stuck in Helena.
Chedastan Puppet

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New Sriker
Envoy
 
Posts: 344
Founded: Jul 09, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New Sriker » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:17 pm

Union Princes wrote:So we're not coordinating an offensive?

As Butler told Long, Huey's men attack the Southwest, Butler's and NOI's men attack the Southeast. P.s you need to fix the date of the attack, it was June 3rd not 13th.

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