Cold War RP III (Closed.)

[The Baton Rouge Free State]

Bush wars are the gift that keeps on giving .

No Rhodesians, no need for war bruv

[Wasi State]

Bush wars are the gift that keeps on giving .

No Rhodesians, no need for war bruv

Actually Rhodesia does exist, just as a state in South Africa.

[Greater Liverpool]

I am withdrawing myself as the Gran Colombian Revolutionary Front

what?
why?

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

[Mathuvan Union]

what?
why?

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

that is not happening.
I am voiding that action as of right now.
it is impossible.
Venezuelans want to be free.
Capitalism hurts the poor, Republicans are racist, and Venezuelans want independence

[Arvenia]

what?
why?

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

I can agree, but did you know that the Republicans were against slavery in the 19th century?

[Mathuvan Union]

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

I can agree, but did you know that the Republicans were against slavery in the 19th century?

bro that was 100 years ago politics since have evolved

[Arvenia]

I can agree, but did you know that the Republicans were against slavery in the 19th century?

bro that was 100 years ago politics since have evolved

Well, it is 1950, which is four years before the American civil rights movement.

[Mathuvan Union]

bro that was 100 years ago politics since have evolved

Well, it is 1950, which is four years before the American civil rights movement.

just because of Brown v. The Board of Education being a landmark civil right movement doesn't really start the era.
civil rights protests had started years earlier, especially during WW2 and the Great Depression

[Monsone]

bro that was 100 years ago politics since have evolved

Well, it is 1950, which is four years before the American civil rights movement.

Republicans are pro-civil rights in 1950. But Democrats and the US President at the time (Truman) are deeply racist.

[Mathuvan Union]

Well, it is 1950, which is four years before the American civil rights movement.

Republicans are pro-civil rights in 1950. But Democrats and the US President at the time (Truman) are deeply racist.

Truman wasn't Prez in 1950.

edit: nvm.
i'm thinking of 1952

[Monsone]

Well, it is 1950, which is four years before the American civil rights movement.

alm:

just because of Brown v. The Board of Education being a landmark civil right movement doesn't really start the era.
civil rights protests had started years earlier, especially during WW2 and the Great Depression

Not really. And Brown vs The Board of Education was for school desegregation. That all occurred in the 1950s. Basically, from 1952 to the end of the 1960s, real change occurred. Before that, little to no change occurred. Protests did start earlier, but they unfortunately achieved little until the 1950s and 1960s.

[Mathuvan Union]

alm:

just because of Brown v. The Board of Education being a landmark civil right movement doesn't really start the era.
civil rights protests had started years earlier, especially during WW2 and the Great Depression

Not really. And Brown vs The Board of Education was for school desegregation. That all occurred in the 1950s. Basically, from 1952 to the end of the 1960s, real change occurred. Before that, little to no change occurred. Protests did start earlier, but they unfortunately achieved little until the 1950s and 1960s.

I live in America, and have learnt this stuff for 5 years.
Military Desegregation 1948. that's not the 60s now, is it?

[Monsone]

Not really. And Brown vs The Board of Education was for school desegregation. That all occurred in the 1950s. Basically, from 1952 to the end of the 1960s, real change occurred. Before that, little to no change occurred. Protests did start earlier, but they unfortunately achieved little until the 1950s and 1960s.

I live in America, and have learnt this stuff for 5 years.
Military Desegregation 1948. that's not the 60s now, is it?

That is the exception not the norm. Sure the military desegregated, but busses, trains, water fountains, bathrooms, schools, even parts of restaurants. They all remained segregated until the 1950s. I'm not saying that the desegregation of the military wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important change that could have been made.

And FYI, I lived in America. Desegregation began in the 1940s, but really kicked off in the 1950s. And it really was Eisenhower who kicked off desegregation. By comparison, Roosevelt did nothing, and all Truman did was desegregate the military.

[Mathuvan Union]

I live in America, and have learnt this stuff for 5 years.
Military Desegregation 1948. that's not the 60s now, is it?

That is the exception not the norm. Sure the military desegregated, but busses, trains, water fountains, bathrooms, schools, even parts of restaurants. They all remained segregated until the 1950s. I'm not saying that the desegregation of the military wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important change that could have been made.

And FYI, I lived in America. Desegregation began in the 1940s, but really kicked off in the 1950s. And it really was Eisenhower who kicked off desegregation. By comparison, Roosevelt did nothing, and all Truman did was desegregate the military.

just because roosevelt didn't desegregate doesn't mean he was bad.
he had the intention, but the senate and hor didn't go his way.
FYI i thought you lived in france, because you seem to know french very well

[Sarderia]

The Confederacy and Civil War is still a thing, Jim Crow and Reconstruction is still a thing, and Manifest Destiny is also still a thing. I'm stating the Republicans are more radical in their opposition of racism. Since most of the states are Republican-controlled by the time Grant was President, Congress voted to allow the Dominican Republic to join. Venezuela was incorporated as a US puppet around the same time Puerto Rico was taken, and I don't see how different they would be.

You can't just void an alternate history lore because you don't like it. That's abusing your power as Co-OP.

Grant was a strong supporter of ending racisim. I'll give you that. But Truman was a Democrat, and the only thing he did to curb racisim was desegregate the armed forces. And that shouldn't be surprising since his parents where Confederate Sympathizers. Later on, Truman would become more desegregationist, but not to the extent of what you would need to allow Venezuela and Puerto Rico in. In 1950, lynch mobs where common in some parts of the USA, seating in public transit was segregated, at so much more. Even if you managed to end segregation, lynch mobs, hate crimes, racial slurs and other forms of racism would live on. You can't just say the USA was lest racist because it is impossible for it to occur.

Cotton was one of the USA's major exports. Who grew it, picked it, and processed it until 1865? Enslaved African-Americans. Who did the menial labor of the USA for the longest time? Black people. And who where one of the most oppressed people in the USA ? Black people. You can't erase one of the most defining parts of US history like it was nothing. Since most IRL history is followed, Jim Crow still is in place, and considering that, you can't say the USA was less racist because Jim Crow kept racisim alive and well along with segregation well into the 20th century. If Reconstruction never ended, maybe the USA could claim to be less racist. But no. Since Jim Crow is still around in this RP, it voids your claim of less racisim.

I may not like your lore changes, but I am using that very lore to disprove an assertion you made. And then you claim it is an abuse of power. It is not an abuse of power to point put facts that do exist in your history and yet you omit purposely because they would prove the point you are arguing against. There is nothing. I repeat nothing in your lore that would make the USA any less racist. Prove me wrong using your existing lore if you wish.

I don't argue against all the racism the Democrats or the KKK or the Confederate Lost Cause sympathizers did throughout America during Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws. I suggested that the Republicans in this timeline took a harder stance in combatting racism than they did IRl. So your claims about America being a liberal, paradise, no racist nation in this RP is pointless.

Mind you, there are as many White Hispaniscs in Venezuela as there are white, Anglo/Scots-irish Protestant people in Georgia or Alabama in this time. The privileged socio-economic class would've welcomed American rule better since it brought stability and a functioning government for them than to place their bets in the coup and rebellion-infested nation that was Venezuela before US administration. This class of people would reap the benefit of US rule the most, and noting that they have a large influence and political connection they're more likely to cooperate with Washington's officials in maintaining stability (or the status quo under US administration) in Venezuela. Another rebellion would just bring the old problems - coups and political dramas that are affecting all Latin American nations bar Venezuela now - and these people aren't likely to trade stability for so-called "independence" (especially noting that the DR is a US state, Puerto Rico and Panama being US territories, and all of those were doing pretty well compared to their neighbors, say, Colombia and Nicaragua). That alone should made people at least resent guerilla groups that offer nothing to them except promises of "independence".

The only thing I would say about Sarderia's claims is the question: "Why isn't Puerto Rico a US state in the current time?".

Because Puerto Rico was a Spanish territory taken in the Spanish-American war, while Domincan Republic applied for statehood to Ulysses S. Grant. Eventually they'll become a state as well, just like the Mexican territories that the US gained.

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

that is not happening.
I am voiding that action as of right now.
it is impossible.
Venezuelans want to be free.
Capitalism hurts the poor, Republicans are racist, and Venezuelans want independence

Ah, yes. Ignoring all the historical precedent that is included on my lore, and even calling Republicans racist. Republicans sponsored the Civil Rights movement, Lincoln abolished slavery, and Republicans are racist.

I don't buy the "party switch" myth IRL, but let's say it happened now in this timeline. Republicans only started to become the form you see now, hardline conservatives and all that, under Ronald Reagan. Back then Republicans were the liberals. And even then the Democrats weren't full-fledged conservative racists as well; the Deep South states certainly were, but everywhere else in America the dividing line was pretty much ideological. But let's make everything the way I like because I'm the OP.

Also, Capitalism doesn't hurt the poor. FDR's New Deal affected Puerto Rico IRL and boosted the economy; I'd say the same happened to DR, Panama, and Venezuela. And, pretty much the majority of Venezuelans are... rather indifferent when it comes to independence, just like the people of Puerto Rico today.

[The Baton Rouge Free State]

No Rhodesians, no need for war bruv

Actually Rhodesia does exist, just as a state in South Africa.

Oof, ok this may turn into an Iran - Saudi kinda deal then

[Mathuvan Union]

Grant was a strong supporter of ending racisim. I'll give you that. But Truman was a Democrat, and the only thing he did to curb racisim was desegregate the armed forces. And that shouldn't be surprising since his parents where Confederate Sympathizers. Later on, Truman would become more desegregationist, but not to the extent of what you would need to allow Venezuela and Puerto Rico in. In 1950, lynch mobs where common in some parts of the USA, seating in public transit was segregated, at so much more. Even if you managed to end segregation, lynch mobs, hate crimes, racial slurs and other forms of racism would live on. You can't just say the USA was lest racist because it is impossible for it to occur.

Cotton was one of the USA's major exports. Who grew it, picked it, and processed it until 1865? Enslaved African-Americans. Who did the menial labor of the USA for the longest time? Black people. And who where one of the most oppressed people in the USA ? Black people. You can't erase one of the most defining parts of US history like it was nothing. Since most IRL history is followed, Jim Crow still is in place, and considering that, you can't say the USA was less racist because Jim Crow kept racisim alive and well along with segregation well into the 20th century. If Reconstruction never ended, maybe the USA could claim to be less racist. But no. Since Jim Crow is still around in this RP, it voids your claim of less racisim.

I may not like your lore changes, but I am using that very lore to disprove an assertion you made. And then you claim it is an abuse of power. It is not an abuse of power to point put facts that do exist in your history and yet you omit purposely because they would prove the point you are arguing against. There is nothing. I repeat nothing in your lore that would make the USA any less racist. Prove me wrong using your existing lore if you wish.

I don't argue against all the racism the Democrats or the KKK or the Confederate Lost Cause sympathizers did throughout America during Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws. I suggested that the Republicans in this timeline took a harder stance in combatting racism than they did IRl. So your claims about America being a liberal, paradise, no racist nation in this RP is pointless.

Mind you, there are as many White Hispaniscs in Venezuela as there are white, Anglo/Scots-irish Protestant people in Georgia or Alabama in this time. The privileged socio-economic class would've welcomed American rule better since it brought stability and a functioning government for them than to place their bets in the coup and rebellion-infested nation that was Venezuela before US administration. This class of people would reap the benefit of US rule the most, and noting that they have a large influence and political connection they're more likely to cooperate with Washington's officials in maintaining stability (or the status quo under US administration) in Venezuela. Another rebellion would just bring the old problems - coups and political dramas that are affecting all Latin American nations bar Venezuela now - and these people aren't likely to trade stability for so-called "independence" (especially noting that the DR is a US state, Puerto Rico and Panama being US territories, and all of those were doing pretty well compared to their neighbors, say, Colombia and Nicaragua). That alone should made people at least resent guerilla groups that offer nothing to them except promises of "independence".

The only thing I would say about Sarderia's claims is the question: "Why isn't Puerto Rico a US state in the current time?".

Because Puerto Rico was a Spanish territory taken in the Spanish-American war, while Domincan Republic applied for statehood to Ulysses S. Grant. Eventually they'll become a state as well, just like the Mexican territories that the US gained.

that is not happening.
I am voiding that action as of right now.
it is impossible.
Venezuelans want to be free.
Capitalism hurts the poor, Republicans are racist, and Venezuelans want independence

Ah, yes. Ignoring all the historical precedent that is included on my lore, and even calling Republicans racist. Republicans sponsored the Civil Rights movement, Lincoln abolished slavery, and Republicans are racist.

I don't buy the "party switch" myth IRL, but let's say it happened now in this timeline. Republicans only started to become the form you see now, hardline conservatives and all that, under Ronald Reagan. Back then Republicans were the liberals. And even then the Democrats weren't full-fledged conservative racists as well; the Deep South states certainly were, but everywhere else in America the dividing line was pretty much ideological. But let's make everything the way I like because I'm the OP.

Also, Capitalism doesn't hurt the poor. FDR's New Deal affected Puerto Rico IRL and boosted the economy; I'd say the same happened to DR, Panama, and Venezuela. And, pretty much the majority of Venezuelans are... rather indifferent when it comes to independence, just like the people of Puerto Rico today.

i was thinking more of the IRL republicans and less of the 1950 republicans.
it does kinda.

[Monsone]

That is the exception not the norm. Sure the military desegregated, but busses, trains, water fountains, bathrooms, schools, even parts of restaurants. They all remained segregated until the 1950s. I'm not saying that the desegregation of the military wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important change that could have been made.

And FYI, I lived in America. Desegregation began in the 1940s, but really kicked off in the 1950s. And it really was Eisenhower who kicked off desegregation. By comparison, Roosevelt did nothing, and all Truman did was desegregate the military.

just because roosevelt didn't desegregate doesn't mean he was bad.
he had the intention, but the senate and hor didn't go his way.
FYI i thought you lived in france, because you seem to know french very well

Nope. I learned some French on the side, and even then, it's pretty basic French.

[Sarderia]

I live in America, and have learnt this stuff for 5 years.
Military Desegregation 1948. that's not the 60s now, is it?

That is the exception not the norm. Sure the military desegregated, but busses, trains, water fountains, bathrooms, schools, even parts of restaurants. They all remained segregated until the 1950s. I'm not saying that the desegregation of the military wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important change that could have been made.

And FYI, I lived in America. Desegregation began in the 1940s, but really kicked off in the 1950s. And it really was Eisenhower who kicked off desegregation. By comparison, Roosevelt did nothing, and all Truman did was desegregate the military.

I acknowledge that it was the Eisenhower administration that brought sweeping changes such as Brown v. Board of Education and incidents such as Rosa Parks and Emmet Till's cases, but at least in this RP Truman is going to be slightly more lenient towards the civil rights movement, and pave the way for the changes that occur under Eisenhower.

I don't argue against all the racism the Democrats or the KKK or the Confederate Lost Cause sympathizers did throughout America during Reconstruction and Jim Crow laws. I suggested that the Republicans in this timeline took a harder stance in combatting racism than they did IRl. So your claims about America being a liberal, paradise, no racist nation in this RP is pointless.

Mind you, there are as many White Hispaniscs in Venezuela as there are white, Anglo/Scots-irish Protestant people in Georgia or Alabama in this time. The privileged socio-economic class would've welcomed American rule better since it brought stability and a functioning government for them than to place their bets in the coup and rebellion-infested nation that was Venezuela before US administration. This class of people would reap the benefit of US rule the most, and noting that they have a large influence and political connection they're more likely to cooperate with Washington's officials in maintaining stability (or the status quo under US administration) in Venezuela. Another rebellion would just bring the old problems - coups and political dramas that are affecting all Latin American nations bar Venezuela now - and these people aren't likely to trade stability for so-called "independence" (especially noting that the DR is a US state, Puerto Rico and Panama being US territories, and all of those were doing pretty well compared to their neighbors, say, Colombia and Nicaragua). That alone should made people at least resent guerilla groups that offer nothing to them except promises of "independence".


Because Puerto Rico was a Spanish territory taken in the Spanish-American war, while Domincan Republic applied for statehood to Ulysses S. Grant. Eventually they'll become a state as well, just like the Mexican territories that the US gained.

Ah, yes. Ignoring all the historical precedent that is included on my lore, and even calling Republicans racist. Republicans sponsored the Civil Rights movement, Lincoln abolished slavery, and Republicans are racist.

I don't buy the "party switch" myth IRL, but let's say it happened now in this timeline. Republicans only started to become the form you see now, hardline conservatives and all that, under Ronald Reagan. Back then Republicans were the liberals. And even then the Democrats weren't full-fledged conservative racists as well; the Deep South states certainly were, but everywhere else in America the dividing line was pretty much ideological. But let's make everything the way I like because I'm the OP.

Also, Capitalism doesn't hurt the poor. FDR's New Deal affected Puerto Rico IRL and boosted the economy; I'd say the same happened to DR, Panama, and Venezuela. And, pretty much the majority of Venezuelans are... rather indifferent when it comes to independence, just like the people of Puerto Rico today.

i was thinking more of the IRL republicans and less of the 1950 republicans.
it does kinda.

Trumpism is very, very different from 1950 Republicans. If Lincoln or Eisenhower exists now, they would be one of Joe Biden's top supporters easily. Or at least Mitt Romney, since he's a plain RINO (or so they claim), or along the lines of MD gov Larry Hogan (since he's quite vocal agisnt Trump).

Either way, "Republicans are racist" is unacceptable and I'm going to ignore it because in 1950 the Republicans were the liberals, at least.

[Sarderia]

what?
why?

Because the USA who I would be spending my RP fighting against has a flawless uber nation where by the people of Venezuela loving being part of America due to apperntly creating a welfare state through nationalising oil as lazzir faire capitalist America who also manged to fix race relations in his country with the Republicans being less racist then what they were.

No, the race relations weren't fixed in 1950 because Truman and the Democrats are still in power; No, Venezuelans certainly don't love being part of America (like the way a New Englander or Southern patriot did), but the majority don't want full independence either; and yes, a Sovereign Wealth Fund exists to manage the oil revenues in Venezuela. Gulf, Exxon, and all the others are still active in the Maracaibo Basin, though; the SWF is merely one, albeit the largest, driller of oil in Venezuela.

[The Baton Rouge Free State]

That is the exception not the norm. Sure the military desegregated, but busses, trains, water fountains, bathrooms, schools, even parts of restaurants. They all remained segregated until the 1950s. I'm not saying that the desegregation of the military wasn't important, but it wasn't the most important change that could have been made.

And FYI, I lived in America. Desegregation began in the 1940s, but really kicked off in the 1950s. And it really was Eisenhower who kicked off desegregation. By comparison, Roosevelt did nothing, and all Truman did was desegregate the military.

I acknowledge that it was the Eisenhower administration that brought sweeping changes such as Brown v. Board of Education and incidents such as Rosa Parks and Emmet Till's cases, but at least in this RP Truman is going to be slightly more lenient towards the civil rights movement, and pave the way for the changes that occur under Eisenhower.

i was thinking more of the IRL republicans and less of the 1950 republicans.
it does kinda.

Trumpism is very, very different from 1950 Republicans. If Lincoln or Eisenhower exists now, they would be one of Joe Biden's top supporters easily. Or at least Mitt Romney, since he's a plain RINO (or so they claim), or along the lines of MD gov Larry Hogan (since he's quite vocal agisnt Trump).

Either way, "Republicans are racist" is unacceptable and I'm going to ignore it because in 1950 the Republicans were the liberals, at least.

I can back up this second statement, much of the modern republican tradition, style, and aura was developed and took effect during the administrations of Richard Nixon and Gerald R Ford. Before then, the Republican party practiced a more mild form of conservatism which did often sway into policies we'd often consider democratic party like today, such as mass infrastructure projects under Eisenhower.

[Wasi State]

Actually Rhodesia does exist, just as a state in South Africa.

Oof, ok this may turn into an Iran - Saudi kinda deal then

All the more fun of being a political mess heap .

[The Baton Rouge Free State]

Oof, ok this may turn into an Iran - Saudi kinda deal then

All the more fun of being a political mess heap .

Hell yah, if you want we could make the entire region a mess heap by forming an alliance.

[Arvenia]

• Christian Democratic Party (Italian: Partito Democratico Cristiano) - Centre (Christian Democracy, Popularism and Conservatism)
• Italian Communist Party (Italian: Partito Comunista Italiano) - Left-wing to far-left (Communism and Marxism-Leninism)
• Italian Socialist Party (Italian: Partito Socialista Italiano) - Left-wing (Democratic Socialism)
• Monarchist National Party (Italian: Partito Nazionale Monarchico) - Right-wing (Italian Nationalism, Monarchism, Social Conservatism, National Conservatism and Anti-Communism)
• Italian Social Movement (Italian: Movimento Sociale Italiano) - Far-right (Italian Nationalism, National Conservatism, Neo-Fascism and Anti-Communism)
• Social Democratic Party (Italian: Partito Socialdemocratico) - Centre to centre-left (Social Democracy, Social Liberalism and Anti-Fascism)
• Italian Liberal Party (Italian: Partito Liberale Italiano) - Centre-right (Conservative Liberalism and Economic Liberalism)
• Italian Republican Party (Italian: Partito Repubblicano Italiano) - Centre-left (Mazzinianism, Republicanism, Social Liberalism and Anti-Clericalism)
• National Catholic Party (Italian: Partito Cattolico Nazionale) - Right-wing to far-right (Italian Nationalism, Political Catholicism, Conservatism, Antisemitism, Anti-Communsim, Anti-Fascism, Anti-Feminism, Anti-Liberalism and Anti-Protestantism)
• Italian Agrarian Party (Italian: Partito Agrario Italiano) - Centre-right (Agrarianism and Conservatism)
• Christian Workers' Party (Italian: Partito dei Lavoratori Cristiani) - Centre-left to left-wing (Christian Socialism, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-Communism and Anti-Fascism)
• Somali People's Movement (Italian: Movimento Popolare Somalo; Somali: Dhaqdhaqaaqa Dadka Soomaaliyeed) - Big tent (Somali Interests)

[Wasi State]

All the more fun of being a political mess heap .

Hell yah, if you want we could make the entire region a mess heap by forming an alliance.

Oh I was under the impression you wanted a regional rivalry that'll turn hot the moment provocation is invoked.