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Should we shift the timescale during the Congressional Recess (July-September 2019)

Poll ended at Mon May 25, 2020 9:34 am

1. Yes, I want to shift the timescale to be 2 IC weeks per 1 OOC Week
21
78%
2. No, I want to keep the timescale as 1 IC week per 1 OOC week
6
22%
 
Total votes : 27

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Agarntrop
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Founded: May 14, 2018
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun May 24, 2020 8:03 am

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Just found a CBS source that says South Carolina is as conservative as Arkansas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... -state/40/

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... r-state/4/

This might have interesting implications...

yeah?
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Governor Tara Misra (R-KY)

Representative John Atang (D-NY03)

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State Senator Simon Hawkins (D-IA)

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Solomons Land
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Postby Solomons Land » Sun May 24, 2020 8:04 am

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Just found a CBS source that says South Carolina is as conservative as Arkansas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... -state/40/

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... r-state/4/

This might have interesting implications...


South Carolina is very liberal for the South, so is this article claiming that Arkansas is drifting left, or that South Carolina is drifting right?
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun May 24, 2020 8:05 am

Solomons Land wrote:
The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:Just found a CBS source that says South Carolina is as conservative as Arkansas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... -state/40/

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/how-li ... r-state/4/

This might have interesting implications...


South Carolina is very liberal for the South, so is this article claiming that Arkansas is drifting left, or that South Carolina is drifting right?

not really

sc is much more repibublican than any other east coast state
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State Senator Simon Hawkins (D-IA)

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Solomons Land
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Postby Solomons Land » Sun May 24, 2020 8:05 am

Moderators, once we get the 3rd OOC, make the IC link lead to the right thread please.
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Solomons Land
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Postby Solomons Land » Sun May 24, 2020 8:07 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Solomons Land wrote:
South Carolina is very liberal for the South, so is this article claiming that Arkansas is drifting left, or that South Carolina is drifting right?

not really

sc is much more repibublican than any other east coast state


Really, I was under the impression South Carolina was more liberal, the more you know.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun May 24, 2020 8:07 am

Solomons Land wrote:Moderators, once we get the 3rd OOC, make the IC link lead to the right thread please.

that would require vaquas who is in a permanent hiatus

plus we will get the 2nd IC up soon
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Left Without Edge
Former Senator Barry Anderson (R-MO)

Governor Tara Misra (R-KY)

Representative John Atang (D-NY03)

Governor Max Smith (R-AZ)

State Senator Simon Hawkins (D-IA)

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Titanne
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Postby Titanne » Sun May 24, 2020 8:08 am

Solomons Land wrote:Moderators, once we get the 3rd OOC, make the IC link lead to the right thread please.

Not until we hit a second IC, the OP on the IC right now quit the RP I think.
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Sanabel
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Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:09 am

Stellonia wrote:Character Information Sheet

NS Nation Name: Stellonia

Character Name: Maria Carmel Fenton (mostly known as "M.C." or "M.C. Fenton")

Character Gender: Female

Character Age: 46 (born May 24, 1973)

Character Height: 5'11"

Character Weight: 150 lbs (These dimensions are very rare for a woman, may want to change)

Character Position/Role/Job: Mayor of Houston (2010–2014)

Appearance: M.C. has a rather imposing and solemn appearance. She has platinum blonde shoulder-length hair, and she prefers to use very reddish hues of lipstick. She has brown eyes and a relatively thin nose. (Description is fine, I would encourage you to find an image though for news articles and that sort of thing)

Character State of Origin: Texas

Character State of Residence: Texas

Character Party Affiliation: Nonpartisan (not to be confused with Independent; she has so far finessed the issue of political affiliation)

Main Strengths: In Houston, M.C. enjoys the support of both Republicans and Democrats and is broadly popular across racial lines. She has received strong approval for her so-called "Houston Revolution," and she has been voted the best mayor in the country by fellow mayors. (I would get rid of that bit about her being the most popular mayor) Furthermore, M.C. is a very intelligent woman who thinks outside the box and rejects conventional wisdom. She also likes to "do her homework" to the greatest extent possible, and she has watched every televised presidential debate since Nixon vs. Kennedy in 1960 in preparation for her own turn on the stage.

Main Weaknesses: M.C. is a billionaire with no political experience at the state or national level, which may cause some voters to feel reticent about voting for her. (But you just said she is incredibly popular?) M.C. also suffers from being somewhat temperamental and volatile, although she usually trusts the discretion of her advisers. Additionally, she has tried to avoid discussion of social issues that have little relevance to city politics, which may open her to skepticism from some advocacy groups. (None of these are real weaknesses, and all are qualified/solved in some way. I would suggest adding more.)

Biography: Maria Carmel Fenton was born on September 24, 1974 in Houston, Texas, as the third of five children in a middle-class family. Her father was a petroleum engineer, and her mother was a schoolteacher. She attended Klein High School (Class of 1991), where she won awards with both the debate and chess teams. Fenton enrolled in the University of Texas at Austin to study Computer Science, where she first received the nickname "M.C." from an acquaintance, but she dropped out during her junior year after she found college life stifling. With some $2,000 she scraped together from her savings and from loans from her parents and friends, she started building knock-off Texas Instruments calculators in her garage. Her calculators offered the same functionality as TIs, but they were reasonably priced. This business prospered, so in 1998, M.C. formed Calcul8 in order to produce calculators that she had conceived and designed herself. Calcul8 products were widely regarded as superior to TIs because they had greater functionality (they had stats functions when TIs did not), did not require a manual to use, and, most importantly, were cheaper than TIs. Although Calcul8s could not be used in testing rooms, they became widely popular; in 2006, TI bought out Calcul8 from MC for an estimated $1.7 billion and shelved Calcul8s. (I don’t think it would be possible to have both greater functionality than a TI and be simpler to use, I also do not think TI would use 1/5 of its operating income to buy out Calcul8. You also should explain how she went from her garage to mass-producing perfect calculators. She would need more capital than loans from her parents. This is a big jump to make in 8 years.)

Having made her fortune, M.C. left the public eye, although not for long. She had her eye on transitioning to public service. Since she had never held any political office, she spent three years studying politics for several hours each day, in order to gain the necessary office What?) to run for office. In 2009, with popular incumbent mayor Bill White (He does not exist in this timeline) set to leave office after reaching his term limit, M.C. threw her hat in the ring to take his place. During her campaign, which was entirely self-funded, she stressed that she was independent from the "Democratic machine," promised to root out corruption in City Hall, and emphasized her business background, which she argued would help the City of Houston recover from the economic damage caused by the recession and Hurricane Ike. She also made the revolutionary campaign promise to do away with the property tax and replace it with the land value tax, which would be assessed only based on the value of land, not improvements. Such a tax, she stated, would provide enough revenue to balance the city's budget but also "reward homeowners, reward tenants, and reward small businesses" by reducing their tax bills. M.C. further strengthened her platform by promising to do away with red light cameras (Houstonians hate them) and fill the city's potholes. Disgruntled voters preferred M.C.'s unorthodox style over the more traditional style of her career politicians opponent, so M.C. won the first round outright with 50.77% of the vote. (Probably shouldn’t be decided in the first round)

With a relatively commanding mandate (mayoral elections are seldom decided in the first round), M.C. set out to implement her land value tax. She met opposition from the City Council, which was skeptical of her idea; it took her three months to negotiate a deal to gradually implement her plan over the course of five years. M.C. also insisted upon rooting out unscrupulous officials who negotiated bad contracts for the city and replaced them with sincere public servants who sought to help the city, not themselves. (How?) She was able to turn a $100 million deficit in 2009 to a $25 million surplus in 2011 without diminishing the quality of roads, schools, or city services. (How?) That year, Houston voters rewarded her with a second term, giving her 83.87% of the vote this time. During her second term, M.C. asked the City Council to accelerate the process of transitioning to a land value tax. Given the expansion of revenues her tax had already created, the City Council agreed to fully implement it by 2013, as opposed to the original target of 2015. With the further increase in revenue this created (She wouldn’t see any of the additional revenue as mayor on that timeframe), M.C. was able to focus more on improving the city and especially its METRO system. M.C. upgraded the existing bus system and expanded the light rail system, and she eliminated fares for students and seniors. These measures tripled ridership over the course of five years (2013 to 2017) and won M.C. the accolades of nationwide advocates for public transit and the environment. M.C. was widely expected to seek a third and final term in 2013, but she shocked Houston by announcing that she would not run. Her logic was that she wanted to be available to make a return to the mayor's office if Houston were ever faced with another crisis. Some pundits did not buy this claim and speculated that her real reason was to prepare for a presidential campaign in 2016.

In the run-up to the primary process of 2016, M.C. was linked with both the Democratic and Republican races for the nomination. She refused to either confirm or deny these rumors; every time she was pressed, her response was "No comment." When Clifford and Wolf secured their respective parties' nominations, Americans disgruntled with both candidates started a "Draft M.C." movement (This would be small- her national name recognition would not be high) in the hopes of persuading her to run for president as a third-party or independent candidate. M.C. did not issue any response to this movement until June 13, when she held a press conference to announce that she would "not be running in 2016." Many pundits speculate that M.C. is mulling a 2020 run, although they cannot agree on whether she will campaign as a Republican, a Democrat, or perhaps even an independent. All options are on the table for her, and should she enter the race, many members of the "Draft M.C." movement will be waiting for her.

Other Info: M.C. is unmarried, and she has been single since her high school days. She has a three-year-old Dachshund named Max.

I have read and accept the rules of the roleplay: Stellonia

Do Not Remove: 84721

Overall I like this candidate a lot, especially since she may jump last minute into a presidential race.

I have issued some comments in bold.

There are some other concerns too. Namely, her age- starting a successful business then transitioning to elected office means she should probably be at least 50. Another issue is her miraculously perfect tenure as mayor, which would be unlikely, especially since she would’ve burned bridges with the machines that support other elected municipal officials. Finally, we do have a wealth cap in the RP.
The interregnum is over- I am once again the OP of the Land of the Free RP


I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun May 24, 2020 8:09 am

Solomons Land wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:not really

sc is much more repibublican than any other east coast state


Really, I was under the impression South Carolina was more liberal, the more you know.

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Sanabel
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Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:18 am

SC is probably as conservative as Arkansas overall, that doesn’t really surprise me if it’s true

But SC has an open primary system so the electorate is more moderate in presidential nominating contest

Plus SC still has more moderate, suburban Republicans in places like Charleston County
The interregnum is over- I am once again the OP of the Land of the Free RP


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If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

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Sanabel
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Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:19 am

Huge news coming soon...

On IC
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I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

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New Cobastheia
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Postby New Cobastheia » Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 am

Gordano and Lysandus wrote:I hope my statements at the press conference were good enough for Auntie Kathy.

That they were, I mean, Kathleen's speech itself isn't exactly winning speech of the year so as long as no one made a massive flub it's be all good

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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Sun May 24, 2020 8:20 am

Sanabel wrote:Huge news coming soon...

On IC

sharansky?
Labour Party (UK), Progressive Democrat (US)
Left Without Edge
Former Senator Barry Anderson (R-MO)

Governor Tara Misra (R-KY)

Representative John Atang (D-NY03)

Governor Max Smith (R-AZ)

State Senator Simon Hawkins (D-IA)

Join Land of Hope and Glory - a UK political RP project

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Titanne
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Postby Titanne » Sun May 24, 2020 8:21 am

Sanabel wrote:Huge news coming soon...

On IC

This worries me.
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New Cobastheia
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Postby New Cobastheia » Sun May 24, 2020 8:21 am

Sanabel wrote:Huge news coming soon...

On IC

[Chants hype slowly and ominously in the background]

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Jovuistan
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Postby Jovuistan » Sun May 24, 2020 8:30 am

I thought he brought the other Book of Mormon at first.
Die nasty!!111

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The World Capitalist Confederation
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Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun May 24, 2020 8:31 am

Sanabel wrote:SC is probably as conservative as Arkansas overall, that doesn’t really surprise me if it’s true

But SC has an open primary system so the electorate is more moderate in presidential nominating contest

Plus SC still has more moderate, suburban Republicans in places like Charleston County

There are interesting implications of an open primary system, however...Sanders polled well amongst independents because of left-wing independents. At least 7% of the American population are both on the sort of right-wing fringe that Porter attracts his core support from, and identify as independents.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-demograp ... -alt-right

But yes, we'll see. I think I might have Porter switch over to the areas that have demographic concentrations of these sorts of people. What's interesting is that independents don't generally lean anywhere on the political spectrum as a whole. They're very spread out across the ideological map, which is why independents tend to lean in the middle as a whole.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... is-a-myth/

EDIT: In fact, even "moderates" aren't really that moderate, more anti-establishment. These are very interesting statistics...
Last edited by The World Capitalist Confederation on Sun May 24, 2020 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sanabel
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Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:35 am

How much has porter campaigned in the last polling cycle
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Titanne
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Postby Titanne » Sun May 24, 2020 8:35 am

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Sanabel wrote:SC is probably as conservative as Arkansas overall, that doesn’t really surprise me if it’s true

But SC has an open primary system so the electorate is more moderate in presidential nominating contest

Plus SC still has more moderate, suburban Republicans in places like Charleston County

There are interesting implications of an open primary system, however...Sanders polled well amongst independents because of left-wing independents. At least 7% of the American population are both on the sort of right-wing fringe that Porter attracts his core support from, and identify as independents.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-demograp ... -alt-right

But yes, we'll see. I think I might have Porter switch over to the areas that have demographic concentrations of these sorts of people. What's interesting is that independents don't generally lean anywhere on the political spectrum as a whole. They're very spread out across the ideological map, which is why independents tend to lean in the middle as a whole.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... is-a-myth/

EDIT: In fact, even "moderates" aren't really that moderate, more anti-establishment. These are very interesting statistics...

I think it's interesting. While SC is certainly a Republican state, it's a moderate Republican state. Same with a few Democratic states like Virginia and Delaware, which never stray too far to the left.
Ridin' with Biden

Not yet radicalized by the internet, he/his, Flamboyant Homosexual, among other things.

Former Delegate and President of Thaecia. Current Delegate of Annecy.

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The World Capitalist Confederation
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Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun May 24, 2020 8:38 am

Sanabel wrote:How much has porter campaigned in the last polling cycle

Let me check.
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“We could manage to survive without the money changers and stockbrokers, but we would rather find it difficult to survive without miners, steel workers and those who cultivate the land.” - Nye Bevan, Minister of Health under Clement Attlee

“The mutual-aid tendency in man has so remote an origin, and is so deeply interwoven with all the past evolution of the human race, that is has been maintained by mankind up to the present time, notwithstanding all vicissitudes of history.” - Peter Krotopkin, evolutionary biologist and political writer.

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Solomons Land
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Postby Solomons Land » Sun May 24, 2020 8:40 am

Sanabel wrote:
Stellonia wrote:Character Information Sheet

NS Nation Name: Stellonia

Character Name: Maria Carmel Fenton (mostly known as "M.C." or "M.C. Fenton")

Character Gender: Female

Character Age: 46 (born May 24, 1973)

Character Height: 5'11"

Character Weight: 150 lbs (These dimensions are very rare for a woman, may want to change)

Character Position/Role/Job: Mayor of Houston (2010–2014)

Appearance: M.C. has a rather imposing and solemn appearance. She has platinum blonde shoulder-length hair, and she prefers to use very reddish hues of lipstick. She has brown eyes and a relatively thin nose. (Description is fine, I would encourage you to find an image though for news articles and that sort of thing)

Character State of Origin: Texas

Character State of Residence: Texas

Character Party Affiliation: Nonpartisan (not to be confused with Independent; she has so far finessed the issue of political affiliation)

Main Strengths: In Houston, M.C. enjoys the support of both Republicans and Democrats and is broadly popular across racial lines. She has received strong approval for her so-called "Houston Revolution," and she has been voted the best mayor in the country by fellow mayors. (I would get rid of that bit about her being the most popular mayor) Furthermore, M.C. is a very intelligent woman who thinks outside the box and rejects conventional wisdom. She also likes to "do her homework" to the greatest extent possible, and she has watched every televised presidential debate since Nixon vs. Kennedy in 1960 in preparation for her own turn on the stage.

Main Weaknesses: M.C. is a billionaire with no political experience at the state or national level, which may cause some voters to feel reticent about voting for her. (But you just said she is incredibly popular?) M.C. also suffers from being somewhat temperamental and volatile, although she usually trusts the discretion of her advisers. Additionally, she has tried to avoid discussion of social issues that have little relevance to city politics, which may open her to skepticism from some advocacy groups. (None of these are real weaknesses, and all are qualified/solved in some way. I would suggest adding more.)

Biography: Maria Carmel Fenton was born on September 24, 1974 in Houston, Texas, as the third of five children in a middle-class family. Her father was a petroleum engineer, and her mother was a schoolteacher. She attended Klein High School (Class of 1991), where she won awards with both the debate and chess teams. Fenton enrolled in the University of Texas at Austin to study Computer Science, where she first received the nickname "M.C." from an acquaintance, but she dropped out during her junior year after she found college life stifling. With some $2,000 she scraped together from her savings and from loans from her parents and friends, she started building knock-off Texas Instruments calculators in her garage. Her calculators offered the same functionality as TIs, but they were reasonably priced. This business prospered, so in 1998, M.C. formed Calcul8 in order to produce calculators that she had conceived and designed herself. Calcul8 products were widely regarded as superior to TIs because they had greater functionality (they had stats functions when TIs did not), did not require a manual to use, and, most importantly, were cheaper than TIs. Although Calcul8s could not be used in testing rooms, they became widely popular; in 2006, TI bought out Calcul8 from MC for an estimated $1.7 billion and shelved Calcul8s. (I don’t think it would be possible to have both greater functionality than a TI and be simpler to use, I also do not think TI would use 1/5 of its operating income to buy out Calcul8. You also should explain how she went from her garage to mass-producing perfect calculators. She would need more capital than loans from her parents. This is a big jump to make in 8 years.)

Having made her fortune, M.C. left the public eye, although not for long. She had her eye on transitioning to public service. Since she had never held any political office, she spent three years studying politics for several hours each day, in order to gain the necessary office What?) to run for office. In 2009, with popular incumbent mayor Bill White (He does not exist in this timeline) set to leave office after reaching his term limit, M.C. threw her hat in the ring to take his place. During her campaign, which was entirely self-funded, she stressed that she was independent from the "Democratic machine," promised to root out corruption in City Hall, and emphasized her business background, which she argued would help the City of Houston recover from the economic damage caused by the recession and Hurricane Ike. She also made the revolutionary campaign promise to do away with the property tax and replace it with the land value tax, which would be assessed only based on the value of land, not improvements. Such a tax, she stated, would provide enough revenue to balance the city's budget but also "reward homeowners, reward tenants, and reward small businesses" by reducing their tax bills. M.C. further strengthened her platform by promising to do away with red light cameras (Houstonians hate them) and fill the city's potholes. Disgruntled voters preferred M.C.'s unorthodox style over the more traditional style of her career politicians opponent, so M.C. won the first round outright with 50.77% of the vote. (Probably shouldn’t be decided in the first round)

With a relatively commanding mandate (mayoral elections are seldom decided in the first round), M.C. set out to implement her land value tax. She met opposition from the City Council, which was skeptical of her idea; it took her three months to negotiate a deal to gradually implement her plan over the course of five years. M.C. also insisted upon rooting out unscrupulous officials who negotiated bad contracts for the city and replaced them with sincere public servants who sought to help the city, not themselves. (How?) She was able to turn a $100 million deficit in 2009 to a $25 million surplus in 2011 without diminishing the quality of roads, schools, or city services. (How?) That year, Houston voters rewarded her with a second term, giving her 83.87% of the vote this time. During her second term, M.C. asked the City Council to accelerate the process of transitioning to a land value tax. Given the expansion of revenues her tax had already created, the City Council agreed to fully implement it by 2013, as opposed to the original target of 2015. With the further increase in revenue this created (She wouldn’t see any of the additional revenue as mayor on that timeframe), M.C. was able to focus more on improving the city and especially its METRO system. M.C. upgraded the existing bus system and expanded the light rail system, and she eliminated fares for students and seniors. These measures tripled ridership over the course of five years (2013 to 2017) and won M.C. the accolades of nationwide advocates for public transit and the environment. M.C. was widely expected to seek a third and final term in 2013, but she shocked Houston by announcing that she would not run. Her logic was that she wanted to be available to make a return to the mayor's office if Houston were ever faced with another crisis. Some pundits did not buy this claim and speculated that her real reason was to prepare for a presidential campaign in 2016.

In the run-up to the primary process of 2016, M.C. was linked with both the Democratic and Republican races for the nomination. She refused to either confirm or deny these rumors; every time she was pressed, her response was "No comment." When Clifford and Wolf secured their respective parties' nominations, Americans disgruntled with both candidates started a "Draft M.C." movement (This would be small- her national name recognition would not be high) in the hopes of persuading her to run for president as a third-party or independent candidate. M.C. did not issue any response to this movement until June 13, when she held a press conference to announce that she would "not be running in 2016." Many pundits speculate that M.C. is mulling a 2020 run, although they cannot agree on whether she will campaign as a Republican, a Democrat, or perhaps even an independent. All options are on the table for her, and should she enter the race, many members of the "Draft M.C." movement will be waiting for her.

Other Info: M.C. is unmarried, and she has been single since her high school days. She has a three-year-old Dachshund named Max.

I have read and accept the rules of the roleplay: Stellonia

Do Not Remove: 84721

Overall I like this candidate a lot, especially since she may jump last minute into a presidential race.

I have issued some comments in bold.

There are some other concerns too. Namely, her age- starting a successful business then transitioning to elected office means she should probably be at least 50. Another issue is her miraculously perfect tenure as mayor, which would be unlikely, especially since she would’ve burned bridges with the machines that support other elected municipal officials. Finally, we do have a wealth cap in the RP.


Could I enter a Libertarian candidate for president at this point?
Generation 31: enter this into your signature and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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The World Capitalist Confederation
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Founded: Dec 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The World Capitalist Confederation » Sun May 24, 2020 8:42 am

Sanabel wrote:How much has porter campaigned in the last polling cycle

About 6 rallies and 12 retail events.
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Sanabel
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Founded: Nov 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:43 am

Solomons Land wrote:
Sanabel wrote:Overall I like this candidate a lot, especially since she may jump last minute into a presidential race.

I have issued some comments in bold.

There are some other concerns too. Namely, her age- starting a successful business then transitioning to elected office means she should probably be at least 50. Another issue is her miraculously perfect tenure as mayor, which would be unlikely, especially since she would’ve burned bridges with the machines that support other elected municipal officials. Finally, we do have a wealth cap in the RP.


Could I enter a Libertarian candidate for president at this point?

You could apply for someone running in the Libertarian Primary if you want- they don’t make nominations until May of 2020, however
The interregnum is over- I am once again the OP of the Land of the Free RP


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Sanabel
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sanabel » Sun May 24, 2020 8:43 am

The World Capitalist Confederation wrote:
Sanabel wrote:How much has porter campaigned in the last polling cycle

About 6 rallies and 12 retail events.

Where tho
The interregnum is over- I am once again the OP of the Land of the Free RP


I am a Radical Centro-Transhumanist and a National Globalist.
If you don't have a high enough IQ to know what those are, then we can't be friends.

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Solomons Land
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Ex-Nation

Postby Solomons Land » Sun May 24, 2020 8:45 am

Oh, did you guys hear Jorgensen beat Hornberger in the Libertarian Primaries?
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