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by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:12 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sanabel wrote:Legitimists are not in power in France, from what I understand
No, they are not, but my point is that support also depends on who's in power. This is a monarchist South, not a libertarian one, which means autocratic regimes like Russia and Austria-Hungary may be more likely to support us.
by Khasinkonia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:18 pm
Sanabel wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:No, they are not, but my point is that support also depends on who's in power. This is a monarchist South, not a libertarian one, which means autocratic regimes like Russia and Austria-Hungary may be more likely to support us.
Those are regimes which lack the naval power to make much of a difference when push comes to shove, and in all likelihood Europe will not erupt into land war over disagreements over who to support in a fractured North American backwater.
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:21 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sanabel wrote:Those are regimes which lack the naval power to make much of a difference when push comes to shove, and in all likelihood Europe will not erupt into land war over disagreements over who to support in a fractured North American backwater.
I'm not talking about military support. Financial support and diplomatic recognition are powerful tools.
by Mediama » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:24 pm
Sanabel wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:I'm not talking about military support. Financial support and diplomatic recognition are powerful tools.
The Russians are currently fighting the Ottomans and the Austrians are trying to manage the Balkan Crisis overall, why would they stick their necks out for Louisiana?
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by Khasinkonia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:26 pm
Sanabel wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:I'm not talking about military support. Financial support and diplomatic recognition are powerful tools.
The Russians are currently fighting the Ottomans and the Austrians are trying to manage the Balkan Crisis overall, why would they stick their necks out for Louisiana?
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:28 pm
Mediama wrote:Sanabel wrote:The Russians are currently fighting the Ottomans and the Austrians are trying to manage the Balkan Crisis overall, why would they stick their necks out for Louisiana?
To save and protect a fellow French-speaking nation. Kinda liked the propaganda for US and British relations in WWI.
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:29 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sanabel wrote:The Russians are currently fighting the Ottomans and the Austrians are trying to manage the Balkan Crisis overall, why would they stick their necks out for Louisiana?
Were they doing that during the Civil War? That's the important period for the Confederacy. The Union's issue is that they're really not inclined to take the South back. Support for the war in the North was a big problem, and so if the South becomes an independent nation, the most they'd be willing to do is garrison the border unless attacked. The US public is a powerful thing. If the South has international recognition, even if it's mixed with regards to opinion, then there will be even less push to pursue reintegration.
by Khasinkonia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:31 pm
Sanabel wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:Were they doing that during the Civil War? That's the important period for the Confederacy. The Union's issue is that they're really not inclined to take the South back. Support for the war in the North was a big problem, and so if the South becomes an independent nation, the most they'd be willing to do is garrison the border unless attacked. The US public is a powerful thing. If the South has international recognition, even if it's mixed with regards to opinion, then there will be even less push to pursue reintegration.
I could see them recognizing the South, I thought we were talking about those empires potentially coming to the aid of former Confederate statelets
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:34 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sanabel wrote:I could see them recognizing the South, I thought we were talking about those empires potentially coming to the aid of former Confederate statelets
No, I'm mostly talking about recognition, and perhaps providing some degree of proxy support. For Austria-Hungary, Louisiana has the benefit of personal ties in government, as the branch of the Bourbons that is currently ruling was personally hosted by the Austrian crown. It's not necessarily going to call them to aid, but it is a strong factor for consideration when people might think about interfering.
by Vienna Eliot » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:41 pm
by Mediama » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:42 pm
MBC News: Landmark decision establishes national holiday for elections|Seagull shows no fear as it crashes into power generator, causing massive blackouts|Talks in the process for upcoming state visit by Liegallan delegates|Mediaman Pacific Fleet conducts exercises with the United States|Parliament debates over intervention in Hintuwan over communist terrorism|Local Mediaman arrested after attempting to buy clothes from a soup store|Negotiations reached between Illistrantian municipal government and local LGBT Center restricting Pride parades to people 18 and over|Prime Minister Herman Marshal highlights need to 'counter communism around every corner'
by Alaroma » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:46 pm
Vienna Eliot wrote:Jackson and Colt are approved. What were the questions about foreign relations etc?
by Lux Pulchrae » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:50 pm
by Sarderia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:54 pm
Alaroma wrote:Vienna Eliot wrote:Jackson and Colt are approved. What were the questions about foreign relations etc?
I have three questions. Was Israel accepted, can it be said the Confederate State/Territory of Arizona exists, and how standardized is the Confederate Military.
All considered I think it could be said two could have happened, and three is important for IC reasons.
by SangMar » Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:58 pm
Vienna Eliot wrote:Jackson and Colt are approved. What were the questions about foreign relations etc?
by Alaroma » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:02 pm
Sarderia wrote:Alaroma wrote:I have three questions. Was Israel accepted, can it be said the Confederate State/Territory of Arizona exists, and how standardized is the Confederate Military.
All considered I think it could be said two could have happened, and three is important for IC reasons.
It is a fedual monarchy, with duchy and county and barony and all kinds of things and private army. There's no such thing as the US Army in the South (hence the name, the Medieval South). You must rely on vassal power to expand or to keep your demesne in line, I think. Oh, and as John D. Rockefeller and his oil magnates are ever-expanding to California (not to mention the Oregon Trail, Deseret being absorbed into the Union), I think the USA have sufficiently enough presence in both AZ/NM now. Especially noting that they now have competitors both in the North (Great Britain) and the South (Confederate) they might want to ramp up that pilgrim and pioneer settlers much more faster.
by Sarderia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:02 pm
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:05 pm
by Khasinkonia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:06 pm
Sarderia wrote:SangMar wrote:
DId Britain have diplomatic relations with the Confederates either during or following the Civil War in this timeline? I’d like to know as my app depends quite heavily on it.
Britain wanted to help the Confederates under their policy of King Cotton. But the threat of the US Navy, which were far more powerful than the Confederate could ever muster (they even invaded Louisiana) made Britain think twice. And they also have a significant reserve of cotton to fuel the textile industry so Britain might not be so inclined to help the South. In the end, the North effectively isolated the South from Europe, and theywon the civil war
Sanabel wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:No, I'm mostly talking about recognition, and perhaps providing some degree of proxy support. For Austria-Hungary, Louisiana has the benefit of personal ties in government, as the branch of the Bourbons that is currently ruling was personally hosted by the Austrian crown. It's not necessarily going to call them to aid, but it is a strong factor for consideration when people might think about interfering.
I could see potential for recognition, but I’m not sure how far that would go. I cannot see them putting money into a North American adventure in the late 1870s, based on the historical situation. Maybe proxy support, but the sights of Vienna were set primarily on their back yard.
by Sarderia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:08 pm
Alaroma wrote:Sarderia wrote:It is a fedual monarchy, with duchy and county and barony and all kinds of things and private army. There's no such thing as the US Army in the South (hence the name, the Medieval South). You must rely on vassal power to expand or to keep your demesne in line, I think. Oh, and as John D. Rockefeller and his oil magnates are ever-expanding to California (not to mention the Oregon Trail, Deseret being absorbed into the Union), I think the USA have sufficiently enough presence in both AZ/NM now. Especially noting that they now have competitors both in the North (Great Britain) and the South (Confederate) they might want to ramp up that pilgrim and pioneer settlers much more faster.
None of that addresses:
A) Are some standards expected for the Confederate Army
B) Does Confederate Arizona exist.
A is just a matter of practicality, trying to sustain 10 caliber types of ammunition is an daunting prospect during war time. B is just if another state exists, the power of the union has nothing to do with the actions during the War, and how much land was negotiated in the peace.
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:10 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sarderia wrote:Britain wanted to help the Confederates under their policy of King Cotton. But the threat of the US Navy, which were far more powerful than the Confederate could ever muster (they even invaded Louisiana) made Britain think twice. And they also have a significant reserve of cotton to fuel the textile industry so Britain might not be so inclined to help the South. In the end, the North effectively isolated the South from Europe, and theywon the civil war
Given that the South is still around, we can assume that our version of Civil War history is largely invalid. For example, one of these likely changes is that the Union is repelled from Louisiana or avoided losing New Orleans altogether. IRL the loss of the port was a painful blow. It's very possible their naval invasion fails for some reason.Sanabel wrote:I could see potential for recognition, but I’m not sure how far that would go. I cannot see them putting money into a North American adventure in the late 1870s, based on the historical situation. Maybe proxy support, but the sights of Vienna were set primarily on their back yard.
Yes, it's more of a statement than significant investment. Perhaps some supplies, but the recognition is the most powerful tool, ultimately. Foreign recognition of the South delegitimises US claims over the South internationally. A big player such as AH recognizing would no doubt be a boon.
by Sarderia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:12 pm
Khasinkonia wrote:Sarderia wrote:Britain wanted to help the Confederates under their policy of King Cotton. But the threat of the US Navy, which were far more powerful than the Confederate could ever muster (they even invaded Louisiana) made Britain think twice. And they also have a significant reserve of cotton to fuel the textile industry so Britain might not be so inclined to help the South. In the end, the North effectively isolated the South from Europe, and theywon the civil war
Given that the South is still around, we can assume that our version of Civil War history is largely invalid. For example, one of these likely changes is that the Union is repelled from Louisiana or avoided losing New Orleans altogether. IRL the loss of the port was a painful blow. It's very possible their naval invasion fails for some reason.Sanabel wrote:I could see potential for recognition, but I’m not sure how far that would go. I cannot see them putting money into a North American adventure in the late 1870s, based on the historical situation. Maybe proxy support, but the sights of Vienna were set primarily on their back yard.
Yes, it's more of a statement than significant investment. Perhaps some supplies, but the recognition is the most powerful tool, ultimately. Foreign recognition of the South delegitimises US claims over the South internationally. A big player such as AH recognizing would no doubt be a boon.
by Khasinkonia » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:13 pm
Sarderia wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:Given that the South is still around, we can assume that our version of Civil War history is largely invalid. For example, one of these likely changes is that the Union is repelled from Louisiana or avoided losing New Orleans altogether. IRL the loss of the port was a painful blow. It's very possible their naval invasion fails for some reason.
Yes, it's more of a statement than significant investment. Perhaps some supplies, but the recognition is the most powerful tool, ultimately. Foreign recognition of the South delegitimises US claims over the South internationally. A big player such as AH recognizing would no doubt be a boon.
Very possible. I think the significant recognition wouldn't be from Britain but France. We already have the Queen of Louisiana reigning in NOLA. And yes the capture of NOLA would present an obstacle to the legitmacy of the South.
by Sanabel » Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:15 pm
Sarderia wrote:Khasinkonia wrote:Given that the South is still around, we can assume that our version of Civil War history is largely invalid. For example, one of these likely changes is that the Union is repelled from Louisiana or avoided losing New Orleans altogether. IRL the loss of the port was a painful blow. It's very possible their naval invasion fails for some reason.
Yes, it's more of a statement than significant investment. Perhaps some supplies, but the recognition is the most powerful tool, ultimately. Foreign recognition of the South delegitimises US claims over the South internationally. A big player such as AH recognizing would no doubt be a boon.
Very possible. I think the significant recognition wouldn't be from Britain but France. We already have the Queen of Louisiana reigning in NOLA. And yes the capture of NOLA would present an obstacle to the legitmacy of the South.
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